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(Investors Business Daily)   Remember those Gibson Guitar raids from a few years back? People who are paying attention sure do   (news.investors.com) divider line 262
    More: Scary, Indian Police  
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8190 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 May 2013 at 2:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 12:23:27 PM  
It must really suck to be a perpetual victim. I don't know how the right-wing does it.

Regarding Gibson, perhaps they should have kept proper documentation on their imported rare woods like C.F. Martin and PRS were able to do. Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k. If they had actual proper documentation, if those pallets of rare wood were legal, why settle?
 
2013-05-24 12:32:57 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-24 12:33:53 PM  

dr_blasto: It must really suck to be a perpetual victim. I don't know how the right-wing does it.

Regarding Gibson, perhaps they should have kept proper documentation on their imported rare woods like C.F. Martin and PRS were able to do. Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k. If they had actual proper documentation, if those pallets of rare wood were legal, why settle?


A single trunk of rare tropical hardwood can easily sell for $500,000 on the open market.  They got off easy.
 
2013-05-24 12:47:27 PM  

dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.


You know, exept for the evidence they provided...
 
2013-05-24 12:53:33 PM  
Remember when this web-site said:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]

People paying attention sure do.
 
2013-05-24 12:56:41 PM  

Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...


There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.
 
2013-05-24 12:59:59 PM  

sigdiamond2000: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 297x170]


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-24 01:07:00 PM  

dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.


FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."
 
2013-05-24 01:10:26 PM  

Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."


Lots of governments do this. Same with ivory; many of these woods are nearing extinction and in some cases what would be legal import from one place is illegal to import from another.
 
2013-05-24 01:14:16 PM  

dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."

Lots of governments do this. Same with ivory; many of these woods are nearing extinction and in some cases what would be legal import from one place is illegal to import from another.


I keep planting ivory trees, but they never seem to take off.
 
2013-05-24 01:21:32 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."

Lots of governments do this. Same with ivory; many of these woods are nearing extinction and in some cases what would be legal import from one place is illegal to import from another.

I keep planting ivory trees, but they never seem to take off.


I heard those were tusk to grow.
 
2013-05-24 01:23:43 PM  

dr_blasto: many of these woods are nearing extinction and in some cases what would be legal import from one place is illegal to import from another.


Sure. And in the country they were accused of breaking the law, they hadn't broken the law.  As  evidencedby the letter they produced.
 
2013-05-24 01:29:13 PM  

Honest Bender: Sure. And in the country they were accused of breaking the law, they hadn't broken the law. As evidencedby the letter they produced.


Gov't: Hey, Gibson, Fender and PRS, to make sure you aren't using illegal wood, you have to have the EW-567b forms filled out in triplicate.

Fender and PRS: Sure, no problem. Here's the forms.

Gov't: OK, everything seems to be in order. Gibson?

Gibson: Uhhhh...hold on a minute...I know they're here somewhere...uhhh

Gov't: You know there are severe penalties for not having the forms, right?

Gibson: Yeah, yeah...I know...but...here's a letter from the place we got the wood from saying it's all cool.

Gov't: OK, so the wood is legal, but you still didn't have the proper forms. There's still going to be a penalty.
 
2013-05-24 01:33:47 PM  
Nothing to fret over citizens......
 
2013-05-24 01:34:26 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I keep planting ivory trees, but they never seem to take off.


Plant them next to your ebony trees. They'll grow together in perfect harmony.
 
2013-05-24 01:37:14 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Gov't: OK, so the wood is legal, but you still didn't have the proper forms. There's still going to be a penalty.


There's also this:

On February 25, 2009, in a reference to the potential long term solution, [he, a Gibson employee] wrote... that the company Maderas Barber '...may be able to help begin some legitimate harvests....Thunam on the other hand should now be able to supply Nagel with all the rosewood and ebony for the grey market.'"

Not having the required documentation + an email basically admitting that they were looking for "grey market" wood means they're hosed and rightly so.  Plus they'd been charged and fined for this offense before so they have zero excuse.

Gibson's owners are right wingers so of course they cry conspiracy but maybe they should follow the rules and not, you know, break the law.
 
2013-05-24 01:43:57 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Honest Bender: Sure. And in the country they were accused of breaking the law, they hadn't broken the law. As evidencedby the letter they produced.

Gov't: Hey, Gibson, Fender and PRS, to make sure you aren't using illegal wood, you have to have the EW-567b forms filled out in triplicate.

Fender and PRS: Sure, no problem. Here's the forms.

Gov't: OK, everything seems to be in order. Gibson?

Gibson: Uhhhh...hold on a minute...I know they're here somewhere...uhhh

Gov't: You know there are severe penalties for not having the forms, right?

Gibson: Yeah, yeah...I know...but...here's a letter from the place we got the wood from saying it's all cool.

Gov't: OK, so the wood is legal, but you still didn't have the proper forms. There's still going to be a penalty.


Pretty much,

People whinging on about how Gibson got a raw deal won't be deterred by the facts, thought.
 
2013-05-24 01:53:42 PM  

CaptSacto: I heard those were tusk to grow.


BunkoSquad: Plant them next to your ebony trees. They'll grow together in perfect harmony.


I love you guys.
 
2013-05-24 01:55:19 PM  

dameron: Gibson's owners are right wingers so of course they cry conspiracy but maybe they should follow the rules and not, you know, break the law.


Evidence, schmevidence!
 
2013-05-24 02:08:05 PM  
"two hostile raids on its factories by agents carrying weapons and attired in SWAT gear where employees were forced out of the premises, production was shut down, goods were seized as contraband and threats were made that would have forced the business to close."

That really IS ridiculous, but that is just the gung ho Federal agents being dicks.

It really would be a huge scandal IF Gibson was indeed targeted because of politics, while Martin wasn't. 

Prove it, Investors.com
 
2013-05-24 02:19:01 PM  
W00T MOAR PARTISAN BULLshiat ARGUING
 
2013-05-24 02:40:30 PM  

Honest Bender: FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.


Well if you can't trust the word of African island governments, who can you trust?
 
2013-05-24 02:52:46 PM  
BENGIBSONAZIGATE
 
2013-05-24 02:57:05 PM  
I'm still regretting passing up a late 60's J-45 I saw at Willie's guitars. It was a little more than I wanted to spend at the time, but the thing felt just right. Long since been sold, of course.

Would be hesitant to buy a newer Gibson acoustic though, most I've played seemed overpriced for the quality. Love the sound of older Gibsons.

//plus I'm a beginner/hack and don't really have any business owning a nice vintage guitar... I guess that's the benefit of starting in your 30's though
 
2013-05-24 02:57:34 PM  
 
2013-05-24 02:58:13 PM  

cman: W00T MOAR PARTISAN BULLshiat ARGUING


Yes, yes, BSABSVR, we farking know.
 
2013-05-24 03:05:58 PM  
It's way past time to sic a wolf on them.
 
2013-05-24 03:06:10 PM  

Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."


So, an official letter from Lois Lerner would end all this IRS nonsense?
 
2013-05-24 03:11:35 PM  
Now The Gibson Guitar Raids Make Sense

I doubt there's any new information that justifies the "Now" in that headline.  IBD believed it was politically motivated then, and it believes it is now.  Nothing really changed.
 
2013-05-24 03:11:38 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: I'm still regretting passing up a late 60's J-45 I saw at Willie's guitars. It was a little more than I wanted to spend at the time, but the thing felt just right. Long since been sold, of course.

Would be hesitant to buy a newer Gibson acoustic though, most I've played seemed overpriced for the quality. Love the sound of older Gibsons.

//plus I'm a beginner/hack and don't really have any business owning a nice vintage guitar... I guess that's the benefit of starting in your 30's though


Guitars in general have an egregious designer logo syndrome.  All the major brands do have some good, decent priced bass (ha!) models tho if you stay away from the rube/noob bait
  A lot of 'cheap' brands are pretty good too - Jay Turser makes a 15% of the price 90% of the quality version of the es135, and most of the difference can be made up with not very expensive hardware/electronics mods
 
2013-05-24 03:13:31 PM  
ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.
 
2013-05-24 03:15:23 PM  

Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."


So basically you submit your tax return in whatever form and format you see fit, correct?
 
2013-05-24 03:16:04 PM  

randomjsa: ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.


So you are against profiling Muslims now?
 
2013-05-24 03:16:56 PM  
randomjsa

I'll be very upset once its been proven that Obama went after his critics like you suspect.
 
2013-05-24 03:17:29 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: randomjsa: ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.

So you are against profiling Muslims now?


Look, this isn't hard to understand. The real victims of profiling Muslims and Hispanics are white Republicans. Deal. With. It
 
2013-05-24 03:17:34 PM  

randomjsa: ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.


agreed.
At the same time, however, The right wing is crying wolf whenever they stump their toe.
Useless partisan hacks on both side.
\vote libertarian
 
2013-05-24 03:17:54 PM  

randomjsa: ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.


www.uncommondescent.com

That's a mighty nice straw man you built there. Is he your boyfriend?
 
2013-05-24 03:18:17 PM  

Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Honest Bender: dr_blasto: Gibson didn't, they were unable to produce any legal evidence that the IRW and Ebony were imported from legal sources--thus settling for $300k.

You know, exept for the evidence they provided...

There are tons of import controls and regulations on rare wood. Those regulations typically require specific documentation on origin--not a letter from somebody.

FTFA:Gibson responded by obtaining the sworn word of the African island's government that no law had been broken.

Well, an official letter from the government where you supposedly broke the law is a little different than a letter from "Somebody."


What about for the Indian Rosewood? They didn't show anything for that and said the feds misinterpreted the Indian law, well obviously they didn't. And having a letter from a government doesn't mean a hill of beans if you didn't file the proper paperwork in the U.S to import it.
 
2013-05-24 03:18:41 PM  
Really, the IRS has been used as a tool/weapon by the party in power. I have my shocked face expression...
 
2013-05-24 03:19:15 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: cman: W00T MOAR PARTISAN BULLshiat ARGUING

Yes, yes, BSABSVR, we farking know.


I show my disdain for idiotic partisan bullshiat and you throw the BSABSVR?

Did I even say that both sides are bad?

If you are gonna throw the over used BSABSVR card, at least get it in the right subject
 
2013-05-24 03:20:01 PM  

vernonFL: I'll be very upset once its been proven that Obama went after his critics like you suspect.


no you won't.
You may fret a little under your breath, but, hell, ends justify the means. Down with the gop! Full steam ahead!
 
2013-05-24 03:20:23 PM  

randomjsa: ITT: Everything is okay and completely justified so long as you are targeting the "enemy" of the "people".

As stated, the people who actually believe in the ideas and principles that liberals claim to hold dear are utterly ashamed of you "progressives".

You're well past being able to deny that people under this administrations power have been targeting people this administration doesn't like. That's no longer a paranoid delusion or some crack pot conspiracy, it's now an established fact. Since it is an established fact you look like utter fools now when somebody basically says "Hey, they've done this in dozens of other instances... It's not crazy to think they might have done it here too..."

Aside from that you people would be going ABSOLUTELY INSANE if Bush had done this to liberal groups anyone who told you that you were over reacting would be screamed down as some kind of uber fascist.


Who's saying he didn't? I mean, there's the same amount of evidence showing that Obama targeted groups with the IRS as there is with Bush targeting groups.
 
2013-05-24 03:21:21 PM  
Is this the new political reality? Anytime anything bad that happens, tax-wise, to any person or any company who maybe once had a republican thought in their head is now evidence of Obama siccing his IRS storm troopers on them because they're conservative? Perpetual victimhood is an ugly, ugly thing, especially when its worn by people who are arguably in one of the most demographically privileged and powerful groups of people in the world.
 
2013-05-24 03:22:01 PM  

mr lawson: Down with the gop! Full steam ahead!


LOL Don't worry, the GOP don't need anyone's help destroying themselves.
 
2013-05-24 03:22:53 PM  
What a sad sad existence these people live in, I almost feel sorry for these wing-nuts.
 
2013-05-24 03:24:17 PM  

mr lawson: vernonFL: I'll be very upset once its been proven that Obama went after his critics like you suspect.

no you won't.
You may fret a little under your breath, but, hell, ends justify the means. Down with the gop! Full steam ahead!


Can you tell me how I'm feeling right now too?  Since you can apparently read people's minds.
 
2013-05-24 03:27:40 PM  
Prosecuting right wing criminals for committing crimes is now "partisan" when a Democrat is in the White House?
 
2013-05-24 03:29:21 PM  

mrshowrules: Remember when this web-site said:

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless." [IBD, Atlanta J-C, Ezra Klein]

People paying attention sure do.


Pepperidge Farms remembers.
 
2013-05-24 03:33:10 PM  
i.imgur.com
The hacked the Gibson?
 
2013-05-24 03:33:27 PM  
FTFA: Grossly underreported at the time was the fact that Gibson's chief executive, Henry Juszkiewicz, contributed to Republican politicians. Recent donations have included $2,000 to Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., and $1,500 to Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn.

Wow, I can see why he was a target
 
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