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(The New York Times)   Community colleges complain that they are getting a smaller share of government spending, more students that can't count to cinco   (nytimes.com) divider line 61
    More: Fail, discretionary spending, cycle of poverty, human development, New York Public Library  
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649 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 May 2013 at 8:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 08:21:23 AM  
many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke and way to get a few more years of living in the basement and getting fed by the folks. yeah yeah mom and dad i'll get serious and finally apply myself. so for up to 3 years you go to the community college and pass about  half of your classes and then see if the parents will pay for more schooling.
 
2013-05-24 08:25:39 AM  
Wow, so first the budget for the big schools is cut, loans are pushed, admins multiply and take higher salaries and fancy buildings are put up (rather than taking care of existing buildings or cheaper tuition or paying grad students and profs more, or all of the above). So, we end up with the big state schools and universities charging an arm and a leg while giving their students fancier accomodations but crappier everything else. Oh, and those poor kids can either take the big loans or get pushed out.

Now, the cheap, sensible alternative that ALSO happens to train many professionals the big boys don't cover - the electricians where the big boys do EE instead - these schools that were the method of upward mobility for poorer people, working people, and disproportionately people of color, now they get "austerity".

This is how you end up with a third world country. You stop educating people, you stop putting up the resources, and the end result is assured.
 
2013-05-24 08:31:39 AM  
Can they still count to 'patata'?
 
2013-05-24 08:55:53 AM  
Six Semesters and an Associates!
 
2013-05-24 09:16:38 AM  

starlost: many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke and way to get a few more years of living in the basement and getting fed by the folks


Considering that group is a small part of the makeup of a community college student body, that's not really relevant.

adamatari: So, we end up with the big state schools and universities charging an arm and a leg while giving their students fancier accomodations but crappier everything else


Really?  From what I see, there is nothing but consistent improvement of resources for students.  That's why tuition rates keep going up.
 
2013-05-24 10:14:46 AM  

kwame: starlost: many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke and way to get a few more years of living in the basement and getting fed by the folks

Considering that group is a small part of the makeup of a community college student body, that's not really relevant.


But those students are obvious and predictable (Disclosure: i have worked at a two-year college).  They show up the day before classes start.  It is obvious that the parents said "after HS you either go to school or get a job" and after 3 months of "looking for work" they take the lazy route, community college.  You go to advise them to register for classes, so you ask them what do they want to do.  "I don't know" will be the response. All they want to take are Arts classes, PE classes, Humanities, music appreciation, etc. and take these classes at 10am and be done by noon.  8 am class, no way, night class forget it, but since they sign-up late, those are the only ones available.  They do this for about a year then eventually they need to take "harder" classes like history, math, english, science for their core classes for the general studies program.  they flounder in those classes and then they fail out.

adamatari: So, we end up with the big state schools and universities charging an arm and a leg while giving their students fancier accomodations but crappier everything else

Really?  From what I see, there is nothing but consistent improvement of resources for students.  That's why tuition rates keep going up.


This I agree with, but the rate and costs of these improvements outpace the increase of resources or saving up for resources.   Not even touching the "dorms should have all the amenities of a 5-star hotel" or "rock climbing walls in the student activity center".  Just look at how much tech is in the classroom (and every classroom) compared to the 80's-90's.  Projectors in each classroom, wireless networks, upgrading labs and lab equipment, a computer teaching station/symposium, screens to project powerpoints on, new desks to allow for laptops, etc.  all those things also need to be updated/replaced every few years to keep up and require infrastructure support like a large IT dept.  computer labs?  the computer to technician ratio at my school is about 400 to 1, which is way above what the ratio in corporate is (at least that is what our IT folk say).

if you built a cinder block room with desks and a chalkboard in the 50's, that would have served you well until the 80's.  I don't think we can really expect something built in the 90's to last as an effective teaching space well into the 2020's.
 
2013-05-24 10:28:59 AM  

Hyjamon: This I agree with, but the rate and costs of these improvements outpace the increase of resources or saving up for resources.


I take it you don't attend a public college of any type in California.  Tuition going up hundreds of percent in a decade, less classes offered, still have buildings without air conditioning, waiting lists 10 miles long for any required coursework, every major "impacted"(meaning the academic requirements are higher than the stated requirements because of a surplus of applicants), student union and food court close early because of budget cuts, winter intersession canceled due to budget cuts(despite having full capacity classes), etc.
 
2013-05-24 10:40:00 AM  

starlost: many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke and way to get a few more years of living in the basement and getting fed by the folks. yeah yeah mom and dad i'll get serious and finally apply myself. so for up to 3 years you go to the community college and pass about  half of your classes and then see if the parents will pay for more schooling.


and the rest of the students see this behavior and ajdust their behavior likewise.  Having attended (and struggled) at a comm college for a couple years before getting my shiat together I really feel that these are just places we stick kids that shouldn't go to college, but whose parents (or theirself) thinks they should.
 
2013-05-24 10:42:13 AM  
High school with ashtrays.
 
2013-05-24 10:50:02 AM  

kwame: starlost: many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke and way to get a few more years of living in the basement and getting fed by the folks

Considering that group is a small part of the makeup of a community college student body, that's not really relevant.

adamatari: So, we end up with the big state schools and universities charging an arm and a leg while giving their students fancier accomodations but crappier everything else

Really?  From what I see, there is nothing but consistent improvement of resources for students.  That's why tuition rates keep going up.


The school I went to put up nice new dorms and is putting in a fancy student center/gym. The library has chronic problems, the paths are crumbling, classroom buildings need repair, but at least the kids get nice rooms and a nice gym!

Perhaps other schools are doing a better job. But where I was it was clear the priorities were not libraries or other research facilities but instead having nicer gyms for students.
 
2013-05-24 10:51:14 AM  

Hyjamon: they flounder in those classes and then they fail out


You've identified a very specific and small segment of a community college's student body.  Those students exist everywhere, from high school to elite universities.

bhcompy: a public college of any type in California


Another pretty singular example that doesn't cover the number of institutions you claim it does.  Have you really visited the majority of the colleges across the entire state?

bhcompy: waiting lists 10 miles long for any required coursework, every major "impacted"(meaning the academic requirements are higher than the stated requirements because of a surplus of applicants)


That happens everywhere.  It is avoided by starting early and being able to meet higher academic standards.

nocturnal001: I really feel that these are just places we stick kids that shouldn't go to college, but whose parents (or theirself) thinks they should.


This is nothing at all what the trend is for community colleges.  The makeup is primarily older students, many of whom have already been out working at a job for some time.

Lazy useless students exist everywhere.  They are not the standard, but because they're so obvious, it's easy to believe that's the way everyone is.
 
2013-05-24 10:52:51 AM  

AMonkey'sUncle: High school with ashtrays.


Smoking is banned on many campuses. High school without the security fences. Yes, high schools are all fenced like jails now.
 
2013-05-24 10:53:08 AM  

adamatari: The school I went to put up nice new dorms and is putting in a fancy student center/gym.


You're simplifying a student center down to a gym?  I don't know what school you attended, but almost ever student center has a major impact on student engagement, which is a prime factor that affects how successful students are.  You have tens of millions of dollars of construction to do.  Have to start somewhere.
 
2013-05-24 10:56:22 AM  
* almost every student center
 
2013-05-24 11:02:45 AM  
kwame:

This is nothing at all what the trend is for community colleges.  The makeup is primarily older students, many of whom have already been out working at a job for some time.

Lazy useless students exist everywhere.  They are not the standard, but because they're so obvious, it's easy to believe that's the way everyone is.


That would be much different of course. As long as kids aren't wasting their time there when they should be working or going to a 4 yr schol that is a good thing.
 
2013-05-24 11:07:40 AM  

adamatari: AMonkey'sUncle: High school with ashtrays.

Smoking is banned on many campuses. High school without the security fences. Yes, high schools are all fenced like jails now.


Sadly, this is true. I don't like smoking in buildings, but now the community colleges and state universities are banning smoking outside as well. They're trying to push that through on my 900 acre state university campus right now. Used to be we treated college students and staff like grown adults, but I guess we can't have somebody smell a whiff of smoke outside.

/Meanwhile, bicycles and skateboards are allowed to haul ass downhill on the main pedestrian thoroughfare weaving between people walking to class
//Guess which one injures more innocent bystanders per year
///Non-smoker, just for the record
 
2013-05-24 11:19:55 AM  

adamatari: Wow, so first the budget for the big schools is cut, loans are pushed, admins multiply and take higher salaries and fancy buildings are put up (rather than taking care of existing buildings or cheaper tuition or paying grad students and profs more, or all of the above). So, we end up with the big state schools and universities charging an arm and a leg while giving their students fancier accomodations but crappier everything else. Oh, and those poor kids can either take the big loans or get pushed out.

Now, the cheap, sensible alternative that ALSO happens to train many professionals the big boys don't cover - the electricians where the big boys do EE instead - these schools that were the method of upward mobility for poorer people, working people, and disproportionately people of color, now they get "austerity".

This is how you end up with a third world country. You stop educating people, you stop putting up the resources, and the end result is assured.


Do you think that isn't actually the end goal of the business class?

/hint: it is.
 
2013-05-24 11:23:58 AM  

buzzcut73: adamatari: AMonkey'sUncle: High school with ashtrays.

Smoking is banned on many campuses. High school without the security fences. Yes, high schools are all fenced like jails now.

Sadly, this is true. I don't like smoking in buildings, but now the community colleges and state universities are banning smoking outside as well. They're trying to push that through on my 900 acre state university campus right now. Used to be we treated college students and staff like grown adults, but I guess we can't have somebody smell a whiff of smoke outside.

/Meanwhile, bicycles and skateboards are allowed to haul ass downhill on the main pedestrian thoroughfare weaving between people walking to class
//Guess which one injures more innocent bystanders per year
///Non-smoker, just for the record


Most bicyclists don't drop dirty cotton all over the ground, huddle near entryways when it's cold and block traffic, take excessive breaks when they are employees, etc.

And I'd be willing to bet there are already regulations about safe use of bikes and skateboard.
 
2013-05-24 11:50:19 AM  

kwame: nocturnal001: I really feel that these are just places we stick kids that shouldn't go to college, but whose parents (or theirself) thinks they should.

This is nothing at all what the trend is for community colleges. The makeup is primarily older students, many of whom have already been out working at a job for some time.

Lazy useless students exist everywhere. They are not the standard, but because they're so obvious, it's easy to believe that's the way everyone is.


Yep. I'm in my late 30s and attending a community college for the prereqs I need to get into UW's PharmD program. It's much, much cheaper than UW and much closer to where I live. And despite the fact that I'm in my late 30s, I'm not the oldest student in any of my classes. It's also partnered with CWU so students of both schools can take classes from both school at that campus. It has three different medical care programs and a paralegal program. I already have a BA, and I attended a different community college in CA for financial reasons before transferring to SDSU (for financial reasons). Community colleges aren't great, but as with everything, you'll get out of it what you put into it.
 
2013-05-24 11:56:45 AM  

Mike Chewbacca: you'll get out of it what you put into it


I wish I could have that tattooed on the arm of every freshman as they walk through the door here.  Then when they complain I can just say roll up your sleeve, bonehead.
 
2013-05-24 12:18:00 PM  

starlost: many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a joke


Many just out of high schoolers treat community college as the only place they can afford to go to.
Many just out of high schoolers treat community college as a financially intelligent stepping stone to a larger College/University.
 
2013-05-24 12:27:39 PM  

kwame: Mike Chewbacca: you'll get out of it what you put into it

I wish I could have that tattooed on the arm of every freshman as they walk through the door here.  Then when they complain I can just say roll up your sleeve, bonehead.


I have a solid A in my chem class. The dude sitting next to me keeps asking me what I do to get an A. I've told him over and over again that I read the chapters, come to every class (which he does, too), and do all the problems at the end of the chapter rather than just the ones that are assigned for homework. And every week he continues to not follow suit. He's getting a high D in the class. The scary part? He wants to be a doctor.
 
2013-05-24 01:24:33 PM  
Subby, you really needed to go to my community college.

They didn't want to be known as a place to get your GPA up because your first year at a University you were trashed all the time.

They broke my b@lls to get the AAS.

Yes, I went on to get a BS and a MS (4.0)  in a technical area at an accredited top ranked University.
 
2013-05-24 01:42:09 PM  

kwame: buzzcut73: adamatari: AMonkey'sUncle:

Most bicyclists don't drop dirty cotton all over the ground, huddle near entryways when it's cold and block traffic, take excessive breaks when they are employees, etc.

And I'd be willing to bet there are already regulations about safe use of bikes and skateboard.


littering cotton all over the ground is a fair complaint of smokers.

huddle near entryways...most places I know have a designated smoking area away from doors.  if they don't, then lobby for it. but a fair complaint in the interim.

Taking excessive breaks?  unless there is a policy against it, then non-smokers can take excessive breaks as well.  If management complains then point out the fact that smokers are taking the breaks or just do like they do, take a smoke break and just don't smoke.
 
2013-05-24 01:53:39 PM  

bhcompy: Hyjamon: This I agree with, but the rate and costs of these improvements outpace the increase of resources or saving up for resources.

I take it you don't attend a public college of any type in California.  Tuition going up hundreds of percent in a decade, less classes offered, still have buildings without air conditioning, waiting lists 10 miles long for any required coursework, every major "impacted"(meaning the academic requirements are higher than the stated requirements because of a surplus of applicants), student union and food court close early because of budget cuts, winter intersession canceled due to budget cuts(despite having full capacity classes), etc.


no, i am in GA.  in 2007 most of the system colleges got 50% of funding from the state reserve (taxes) and 50% from tuition.  With the economic downturn, state revenues have fallen and there have been 2-3% increases in tuition.  The colleges do not get to set their own tuition increases, that is controlled by a quasi-political body.

Now most system colleges get 30% of their funding from the state and 70% from tuition.  The problem is the increase in tuition isn't enough to make up for the loss in state revenues, so services and staff are cut, class sizes go up, faculty loads increase and shift( more intro classes are taught and the needed keystone classes which typically had low enrollments are offered less often), building projects are postponed, on and on.

but before the 2008 crash, a lot of colleges were devoting resources to student amenities as a means to attract and recruit students, it became an arms race of who could make students the happiest (with the idea that academic facilities would be improved along with or later)...then the crash took all the academic resources out.
 
2013-05-24 01:54:14 PM  
I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.
 
2013-05-24 02:16:15 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.


It takes 60 hours to get an associate's degree.  What are you doing there?
 
2013-05-24 02:27:03 PM  

kwame: TheGreatGazoo: I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.

It takes 60 hours to get an associate's degree.  What are you doing there?


my guess is switching majors, replacing lower level classes with higher level ones to transfer with (algebra will transfer, but calculus looks better, so you take the extra 8 hours to get to calculus to transfer with) or needing to carry so many hours in order to maintain status for some benefit:

example: you only need 3 more chemistry classes to graduate, but they must be taken in sequence, so that is three semesters.  But in order to stay insured, receive pell, financial aid, GI bill, or something along those lines, you must be a full time student.  So you take the needed chemistry class (4 hrs) along with other classes to reach full time status (8-9 hours).  repeat for a few semesters and you can have an excess amount of hours.
 
2013-05-24 02:38:58 PM  

kwame: TheGreatGazoo: I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.

It takes 60 hours to get an associate's degree.  What are you doing there?


Because community college is cheaper than university. Cost-conscious students will take as many classes as possible at a CC to keep down the expense of going to university. For example, I already have a BA but I'm going back to become a pharmacist. I have 6 quarters of prereqs to take, 3 quarters of gen chem and 3 quarters of O chem. I have to take them in order, so it must take me at least 6 quarters. I could take them at UW because I certainly have enough credits to transfer. However, it would cost me four times as much in tuition (literally) than if I just took them at a local community college.
 
2013-05-24 03:03:10 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: kwame: TheGreatGazoo: I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.

It takes 60 hours to get an associate's degree.  What are you doing there?

Because community college is cheaper than university. Cost-conscious students will take as many classes as possible at a CC to keep down the expense of going to university. For example, I already have a BA but I'm going back to become a pharmacist. I have 6 quarters of prereqs to take, 3 quarters of gen chem and 3 quarters of O chem. I have to take them in order, so it must take me at least 6 quarters. I could take them at UW because I certainly have enough credits to transfer. However, it would cost me four times as much in tuition (literally) than if I just took them at a local community college.


I couldn't agree more!
 
2013-05-24 03:18:12 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: Because community college is cheaper than university.


Most universities require a minimum number of hours at the university level in order to earn a BA/BS.  That's why I'm asking.  I see a lot of students load up at the CC level and find out every hour over 60 was wasted money.

Hyjamon: But in order to stay insured, receive pell, financial aid, GI bill, or something along those lines, you must be a full time student. So you take the needed chemistry class (4 hrs) along with other classes to reach full time status (8-9 hours). repeat for a few semesters and you can have an excess amount of hours.


That's fraud.  And the GI bill will not allow you to take anything but the courses that apply to the major.
 
2013-05-24 03:24:55 PM  

kwame: Mike Chewbacca: Because community college is cheaper than university.

Most universities require a minimum number of hours at the university level in order to earn a BA/BS.  That's why I'm asking.  I see a lot of students load up at the CC level and find out every hour over 60 was wasted money.

Hyjamon: But in order to stay insured, receive pell, financial aid, GI bill, or something along those lines, you must be a full time student. So you take the needed chemistry class (4 hrs) along with other classes to reach full time status (8-9 hours). repeat for a few semesters and you can have an excess amount of hours.

That's fraud.  And the GI bill will not allow you to take anything but the courses that apply to the major.


That isn't necessarily true. When I transferred to a 4 year I was able to transfer in a total of either 78 or 79 credit hours. But it is important to find out how many hours you can transfer in to the school you want to transfer to, and plan your classes accordingly.
 
2013-05-24 03:30:23 PM  

ongbok: That isn't necessarily true. When I transferred to a 4 year I was able to transfer in a total of either 78 or 79 credit hours. But it is important to find out how many hours you can transfer in to the school you want to transfer to, and plan your classes accordingly.


I'm not saying schools limit the number of hours they will allow students to transfer in.

They may have a policy (for example, that students must complete a minimum of 60 credit hours at the university level) that governs graduation.  In those cases, taking hours over 60 at the CC level is a waste unless taking prerequisite courses for a major.

Regardless, your point is a good one - that students who want to transfer absolutely must be in communication with their target university.
 
2013-05-24 03:43:35 PM  

kwame: ongbok: That isn't necessarily true. When I transferred to a 4 year I was able to transfer in a total of either 78 or 79 credit hours. But it is important to find out how many hours you can transfer in to the school you want to transfer to, and plan your classes accordingly.

I'm not saying schools limit the number of hours they will allow students to transfer in.

They may have a policy (for example, that students must complete a minimum of 60 credit hours at the university level) that governs graduation.  In those cases, taking hours over 60 at the CC level is a waste unless taking prerequisite courses for a major.

Regardless, your point is a good one - that students who want to transfer absolutely must be in communication with their target university.


In California for any of the public universities, you can take any lower division courses at CC and transfer them to a 4 year public institution(CSU or UC).  The general "suggestion" (read: requirement for transfer) for any impacted major(all of them) is to get your general ed certificate and complete all lower division coursework in your major prior to filing for transfer. The difference between doing that and getting your AA/AS is usually another semester or two of classes(because why not), so a lot of people end up doing that, too.
 
2013-05-24 04:25:50 PM  

bhcompy: In California for any of the public universities, you can take any lower division courses at CC and transfer them to a 4 year public institution(CSU or UC). The general "suggestion" (read: requirement for transfer) for any impacted major(all of them) is to get your general ed certificate and complete all lower division coursework in your major prior to filing for transfer. The difference between doing that and getting your AA/AS is usually another semester or two of classes(because why not), so a lot of people end up doing that, too.


That's pretty much the way it is everywhere.  The point is that 4-year institutions sometimes have policies that will make wandering along taking every class you can at a community college a bad idea.
 
2013-05-24 04:48:52 PM  
"In the 20th century, going to college was not necessary for getting a job in the middle class," said Eduardo J. Padrón, the president of Miami Dade College and a co-chairman of the 22-member committee. "But in today's job market, if you don't have a postsecondary credential, you can't get a job that lets you achieve the American dream. It keeps you in a cycle of poverty."

That's good to hear, since I know three out of my four brothers/brothers-in-law make more than me: the truck driver, the electrician (union), and the gas pump installer. The only one who makes less than me is the other college graduate, who uses CAD to design bridge components.

/online product manager
/looking hard for a new job
 
2013-05-24 04:50:57 PM  

skrame: "In the 20th century, going to college was not necessary for getting a job in the middle class," said Eduardo J. Padrón, the president of Miami Dade College and a co-chairman of the 22-member committee. "But in today's job market, if you don't have a postsecondary credential, you can't get a job that lets you achieve the American dream. It keeps you in a cycle of poverty."

That's good to hear, since I know three out of my four brothers/brothers-in-law make more than me: the truck driver, the electrician (union), and the gas pump installer. The only one who makes less than me is the other college graduate, who uses CAD to design bridge components.

/online product manager
/looking hard for a new job


Hint: those are anecdotes, and Dr. Padron is right. He knows his shiat.

/attending MDC as we speak for prereqs to Computer Engineering
//just because some people can make a good living without a 4 year degree doesn't make it any less stupid to advise someone against obtaining one
 
2013-05-24 04:53:03 PM  
FTFA:
"But in today's job market, if you don't have a postsecondary credential, you can't get a job that lets you achieve the American dream. It keeps you in a cycle of poverty."

Because the skilled trade class has largely disappeared, right? Because you're either in the poorhouse or on your way to an MBA/phD/etC.

I believe that in Europe, when you come out of their high school equivalent, you take a test. Pass, and you're on your way to university. Don't do quite so well, and it's off to trade school. The world needs good plumbers.

/Notice I said good plumbers
 
2013-05-24 05:00:16 PM  

phamwaa: I believe that in Europe


So pretty much irrelevant to this discussion of American community colleges then?
 
2013-05-24 05:09:06 PM  

un4gvn666: phamwaa: I believe that in Europe

So pretty much irrelevant to this discussion of American community colleges then?


Smackdown.
 
2013-05-24 05:22:18 PM  
*Community-NBC.jpg*
 
2013-05-24 05:36:15 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: I have over 100 semester hours at a community college.  I will take cheap college classes any day.  When I took physics there I had the only A.

There are lazy idiots at 4 year schools too.


True bc I am a lazy idiot at a decent state school
 
2013-05-24 07:44:22 PM  

un4gvn666: skrame: "In the 20th century, going to college was not necessary for getting a job in the middle class," said Eduardo J. Padrón, the president of Miami Dade College and a co-chairman of the 22-member committee. "But in today's job market, if you don't have a postsecondary credential, you can't get a job that lets you achieve the American dream. It keeps you in a cycle of poverty."

That's good to hear, since I know three out of my four brothers/brothers-in-law make more than me: the truck driver, the electrician (union), and the gas pump installer. The only one who makes less than me is the other college graduate, who uses CAD to design bridge components.

/online product manager
/looking hard for a new job

Hint: those are anecdotes, and Dr. Padron is right. He knows his shiat.

/attending MDC as we speak for prereqs to Computer Engineering
//just because some people can make a good living without a 4 year degree doesn't make it any less stupid to advise someone against obtaining one


Look, I'm a big fan of education. I have a "just because" degree in a field that is unrelated to my blue-collar job. I'd never advise against going to college. But we have to be realistic about the majority of the poor population's suitability for college. Lack of a Bachelor's does not relagate one to a life of burger flipping.

I do agree with Dr. Padron, because he didn't say "college" or "four-year degree." A "postsecondary credential" encompasses a trade licences, a CDL, or other technical or professional certifications. If you're looking for large-scale upward mobility, it's more realistic to try to provide a lot of technical job training.
 
2013-05-24 07:48:03 PM  

kwame: Mike Chewbacca: you'll get out of it what you put into it

I wish I could have that tattooed on the arm of every freshman as they walk through the door here.  Then when they complain I can just say roll up your sleeve, bonehead.


Jesus, fark yes. I had one girl, has taken two of my classes. Showed up for the first month and never saw her again. Thought she just dropped. Nope! Was on the end of semester roll. That's one "F" I was glad to give. Twice.
 
2013-05-24 09:00:46 PM  
Last month I was at a professional meeting that included a lot of CC faculty from the Northwest.  I was totally blown away by the work they were doing with their students.  It's clear that some states, notably OR and WA have worked to develop a good feeder system.  OTOH, we have Idaho, who virtually dismantled the CC/JuCo system by making all of their post-secondary schools 4-year institutions...with insufficient funding for all.
 
2013-05-24 09:25:30 PM  
The community college near me gets more tax dollars than the fire department.  There's something seriously wrong with that one.
 
2013-05-24 09:37:54 PM  

parkerlewis: The community college near me gets more tax dollars than the fire department.  There's something seriously wrong with that one.


Why?
 
2013-05-24 09:40:23 PM  
Well here in Vancouver you can't smoke in a public park AND we let the multitudes of FOB Chinese drive. From this I assume two things: Vancouver is turning into your college AND no one is safe.
 
2013-05-24 09:43:07 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: parkerlewis: The community college near me gets more tax dollars than the fire department.  There's something seriously wrong with that one.

Why?


haha Yeah, I'd like to hear his/her reasoning on this one.
 
2013-05-24 09:46:20 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: parkerlewis: The community college near me gets more tax dollars than the fire department.  There's something seriously wrong with that one.

Why?


Because fires are frequent while ignorant motherfarkers are rare?
 
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