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(Slate)   Working parents who leave the office early are getting away with an "unfair practice" and are "killing office morale." Well, according to the people without kids who are just pissed they can't leave early   (slate.com) divider line 97
    More: Fail, working parent, Emily Yoffe, vacation time  
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6053 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 6:42 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-24 12:30:07 AM
26 votes:
When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...
2013-05-23 11:42:13 PM
10 votes:
I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.
2013-05-24 12:40:05 AM
6 votes:
The solution to this is pretty easy:  let people take minor time off (less than a day) for whatever reason.  That's what our company does at the discretion of every manager and it works out very well.  If you have to leave to pick up a sick kid - go ahead and do so.  I don't have kids, and some of my employees don't, but I've approved leaving early for birthdays, anniversaries, car service, PT conferences, traffic, or even going to a concert.

Of course, everyone I work with is an exempt employee, so unless they aren't getting their job done, there's really no reason to tell someone they can't leave when they want.  Our WFH policy runs much the same way.  If you need to work from home for any reason, just make sure your work gets done.  I haven't had a complaint from any employee about unfairness based on having kids.  In fact, the team usually covers for a parent if their kid is sick regardless of whether or not they have kids themselves, and the effort is reciprocated.  The parents keep some running tally in their head, as far as I can figure, and pay back when needed.

Either this guy is hyper-sensitive, his firm is mismanaged, or he thinks that being in the office is a work product.  And if it's that last reason, then he's sadly mistaken.  I'd rather have a productive employee at any hour of the day than someone who is sitting at a particular location doing nothing.
2013-05-23 11:58:14 PM
6 votes:
Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.
2013-05-24 01:57:42 AM
5 votes:
Honestly, I love it when people leave early or take days off so they can spend time with their snowflakes. It's amazing how much quality work I can get done when the drooling breeders get the fark out of the office.
2013-05-24 09:49:47 AM
4 votes:
The same people who take advantage of their co-workers by excessively using their children as an excuse to get out of whatever are the same assholes who would be making excuses to get out of work etc regardless.

It just gives them a more socially acceptable excuse.

Its called work ethic. You either have it or you don't.
2013-05-24 07:19:29 AM
4 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.


Maybe there should be a push for a 6 hour work day not 8.  Also 8 weeks annual leave at half pay or 4 weeks for Americans as I believe they only get 2 at the moment.

This would lead to less tired employees and increased production.
More time for parents to spend with children:
More people being employed
More money earned in recreational industries since people have more time to spend in them.
Children spending less time in paid childcare.
2013-05-24 07:15:42 AM
4 votes:
I work with someone who used the "I have small kids" card to get out of working all of the Saturdays we are open each year (approx. 8 days). When she requested off this upcoming Saturday, our director reminded her that she had taken some time off the previous week to watch her youngest daughter graduate high school; therefore, the "I have small kids " card was no longer in play. My coworker was flabbergasted.
2013-05-24 06:57:46 AM
4 votes:
No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.
2013-05-24 05:00:33 AM
4 votes:
Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.
2013-05-23 11:42:59 PM
4 votes:
Yeah. I use my PTO to do that.

So this c*nt can go suck someone's asshole.
2013-05-24 09:39:09 AM
3 votes:

ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


Okay. That's the de facto reality in many cases anyway, so why not put it in writing?
It beats the old way, when women were turned away from whole sectors of the economy because it was expected they would just get married and have kids some day. Or maybe long term childless women were allowed to work, on condition that they received little pay and no real credit for their contributions. Fab.
2013-05-24 08:27:35 AM
3 votes:
The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.
2013-05-24 08:13:27 AM
3 votes:
I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".
2013-05-24 08:00:49 AM
3 votes:
Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.
2013-05-24 07:55:37 AM
3 votes:

Persnickety: Are you saying we've set up our social systems to match predominant human behavior and biological realities?


more like, we've designed social systems to benefit or show favor to certain voting blocks.

E.g art foundations that millionaires dump money into in order to hide it
child credit
student loan interest deduction
mortgage deduction
2013-05-24 06:50:02 AM
3 votes:
From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.
2013-05-24 02:44:12 AM
3 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?


We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.
2013-05-24 01:48:02 AM
3 votes:
You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.
2013-05-24 03:13:15 PM
2 votes:

palais: I'm on lunch, so CSS time/

I work as part of a shared services team. Recent retirements,new hires and restructuring has changed my job to answering phones in between running the logistics, shipping, and trade show co-ordination of a small EMC company that uses our services (all the companies in the office space are partially owned by one very lovely lawyer/ venture capitalist).  One of the other companies in the office decided that they needed to change their customer service practices and hired the daughter of the president to do this job, taking some of my workload off my desk before I had a nervous breakdown. She's going through a divorce, and has three kids the same age as my three kids. I'm a single mother myself, I have a lot of sympathy for her.  But when I took this job, I decided that I was committed to it. It's a good paying job, it keeps my kids housed, fed, and clothed. I don't have a lot of family help, so my kids have had to sacrifice me and I've had to sacrifice time with them. I like my job now that I'm not supposed to be doing three full time jobs all at once. I'm happier, my kids are responsible most of the time, our lives work.

She's been here six months. In these six months she has been away half the Fridays for God knows what, frequently leaves the office for kid matters, appointments (I always schedule appointments with doctors and dentists on weekends), school things ( her kids are in a charter school), the lawyer she hates, the lawyer she wants to switch to, at her aunt's house to help her move, long lunches with the sales team, illness, family vacations... There are days where I'm back to where I was. I do the job as I did it when it was part of my responsibility list. This makes the CEO of that company pissed, but I cannot spend precious time hand holding everyone, as I have other companies with clients that require hand holding as well, and they also suffer. The Shared services book keeper frequently complains to the CFO and the supremo ...


So much, this.

"as long as the work gets done" is a perfectly fine mantra when it comes to letting people have some time off. But every place I have worked in my 13-year career, I am pretty much asked to account for (at a minimum) a 45 hour workweek in my project time tracking (I am in software development). So essentially the notion of "so long as the work gets done, people can take personal time for free whenever" only works when people are actually only assigned a workload appropriate to a 40-45 hour work week. When your role, or your group, is consistently firefighting and overloaded, THERE IS NOT ANY FREE TIME and it's possible to work a 16 hour workday every day of the week from now till the end of time.

And in my experience, that's when your boss starts asking you WHY you want to leave early and WHY you want that day off, or whatever. And crotchfruit are always viewed as being a legitimate reason why you need to take time off.

I'm an amateur cyclist and I spend 12-15 hours a week training, and go to a minimum of two races a week, which is like having a second part time job in and of itself. My wife and I have chosen not to have kids, because it doesn't fit with this aspect of my life as well as other choices we've made. But if I tell my boss that I want to actually leave work at 4 today (my office hours are 7:30-4) if there's anything pressing (which there nearly always is) because I want to make it to a group ride or a weeknight race - oh boy, I farked up in a big way by admitting what I wanted to leave for. I have to be deliberately obtuse and act like every one of my "flex work arrangement" instances is a super sensitive personal issue, otherwise I know I will get dissed. At some employers, I have even had to go to some pretty great lengths to hide the fact that I am a cyclist at all, which is actually massively inconvenient.

I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.
2013-05-24 10:41:27 AM
2 votes:

hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.


You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.
2013-05-24 09:18:38 AM
2 votes:

bborchar: Headso: bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.

when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.

Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.


Nope. In fairness to the daycare, some parents are farking unbelievably irresponsible. I guess they figure, the child is in a safe place, so no one will mind if I show up after I finish doing whatever. During football season, some of the parents would drop their 8 year olds off at the beginning of practice and pick them up at the end. I recall one night sitting with a coach and a kid for an hour and a half in the dark waiting for his mother to show up. I stayed so that my son could play with his teammate and keep him occupied. When the mother showed up, her total lack of regard for the situation almost made my head explode. The coach didn't let her have it in front of her son, figuring the little boy was dealing with enough with her as a mother.
2013-05-24 09:09:34 AM
2 votes:

bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.


when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.
2013-05-24 08:57:09 AM
2 votes:

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...


Seems like your interpretation of teamwork is hated by most of your employees. And as a supervisor of 150 airmen, it irritates me that I have to look at an airmen and tell him he has to work Xmas nights, weekends, and Xmas because he has Jo dependents. Then I'm expected to council said airmen on why he shouldn't be knocking chicks up. It is a moral killer, it is extremely unfair, and people that can't work because they have kids shouldn't be working.
2013-05-24 08:56:47 AM
2 votes:
As much as working in a small office sometimes feels limiting reading some of this stuff makes me soooo glad I no longer work in a large corporate environment having to deal with the politics of the office and general asshattery of people.

Such a huge waste of time dealing with that crap.
2013-05-24 08:34:45 AM
2 votes:
Classic big-business tool, If you keep the peons arguing with each other it draws attention away from the big-wigs screwing them over, it's the same tactics monarchs and other heads of states uses to keep their people in line.
2013-05-24 08:34:41 AM
2 votes:

ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.


Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.
2013-05-24 08:18:09 AM
2 votes:

dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.


That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.
2013-05-24 08:18:05 AM
2 votes:
i43.tinypic.com
2013-05-24 07:57:24 AM
2 votes:

OregonVet: I once left work early to go make a babby. I went to another manager (happened to be the HR) and said, "Hey Ang, I'm leaving early (like 3 PM), MrsOV is ovulating."
"Well, alrightie then."
/csb


Was she only ovulating for two hours?
2013-05-24 07:42:26 AM
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.


I have people skills. What I lack is a child that gets me a free pass on taking time off whenever I feel like it, because "the kid is sick" or "they have a game". And perhaps they schedule things out months in advance at your job, but at mine it more often is scheduled only days in advance. And it's great to be at work reading Facebook posts from said Breeder about being at the beach when they are supposed to be home with their sick kid, or attending their tee-ball game.

Like I said, it's complete BS. Breeders get preferential treatment over people who either choose not to have kids or are incapable of doing so. My wife and I are the latter.
2013-05-24 07:32:52 AM
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.


Wow...a douchebag of your magnitude could clean a whale's vagina.

//legal standards change, @ss.
2013-05-24 07:29:01 AM
2 votes:
This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.
2013-05-24 07:21:39 AM
2 votes:

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


Thank God you're not my boss.
2013-05-24 07:20:17 AM
2 votes:

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.


I ended up having to quit my job three months after I returned from maternity leave because I missed a lot of time because I was unexplainably sick (and my daughter was born with a birth defect needing surgery at one month old with a subsequent infection). Finally, I quit my job because the HR manager was harassing me about missing too much time (after working there for four years and never missing any). My boss was incredibly nice and let me leave when he saw me throwing up constantly. One day after I quit, I was taken to the ER and ended up in ICU for a week because my doctor had completely missed my diagnosis the 4 times I went to him. I had grave's and Addison's disease, and I probably would have been dead of a stroke in another day or two.

My boss made sure I was paid another month's salary after I quit and waived off the extra vacation time I has spent without earning. The HR manager was fired not long after that. Sometimes people just don't understand what is really happening when they get mad about what other people are doing.
2013-05-24 07:19:17 AM
2 votes:

bborchar: From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.


This.

Sadly most companies and their management are too incompetent to measure worker output so instead they just look at who is at their desk.
2013-05-24 07:03:55 AM
2 votes:
If I need time off for kid stuff, I either take PTO or adjust my schedule. Anyone can do this.

Maybe it is people who gossip and complain without knowing all the facts that kill office morale.
2013-05-24 06:51:19 AM
2 votes:
You're not entitled to a goddamned thing that's not in your employment contract.

Similarly, if you're single and want off early, ask your boss to alter your schedule.  That's generally how the people with kids got it.  Since you don't have to drop any kids off either, you can probably even talk them into letting you come in early and still book the same hours, which isn't an option for the people with kids.

MmmmBacon: Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

Just so you know, ball games and recitals are, in fact, scheduled months in advance, and that's probably when the people in question put in their time off request.  I know my father was never able to show up to anything that wasn't on his scheduled day off (Tuesday, try fitting that into a weekend-centric school/club schedule) unless we gave him the date with like three months of notice.

Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.
2013-05-24 06:49:24 AM
2 votes:

umad: It is truly shocking that parents think they are the center of the farking universe at work just like they do everywhere else.

Gig103: Also, all parents should circumcise all children. Even the females.

Have their vocal chords clipped while you are at it.


That or just keep the little bastards out of restaurants and other adult establishments until they can behave in public.
2013-05-24 06:42:37 AM
2 votes:
Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.
2013-05-24 02:02:06 AM
2 votes:

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Won't someone think of the customers' children?!

Holidays were my most productive strip club nights.  Little competition for grateful hotties who had nothing to do after work except me.
2013-05-23 11:35:32 PM
2 votes:
Yeah, this one could be a popcorn kind of thread.
2013-05-24 08:32:38 PM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...


Oh fark you.  It because of the MASSIVE IMBALANCE that people complain.  It's never teamwork, it's always the people with children taking advantage of the people without children, and the people without children never get fair consideration of their "personal needs".  Managers are frankly scared of challenging parents, and they figure they have nothing to lose by squeezing the lost productivity out of everyone else.

If it was fair my non-childed co-worker wouldn't have had to threaten legal action to be allowed to use her contractually guaranteed domestic leave to care for her dying mother (who was her dependent, and therefore fell under the "domestic leave" policy), when the parents are always dodging out without warning for often spurious child-related this and that and the other.  If it was fair my non-childed co-worker who is working on his degree would not have to use vacation leave to leave an hour early for class once a week, when there are parents who leave early or arrive late every week but are allowed to use "flex" time to do so.  Flex time is supposed to be for everyone's benefit.  Just don't try to use it if you don't have kids.

I am one of those people who always works through holiday periods so people with kids can take them away on a trip or look after them at home.   At Christmas that leaves me doing the work of four people for a few weeks.  Frankly I am sick to the back teeth of carrying other people's workload when because of their "personal commitments" they can never help me with mine, even after I've got behind in my own work because I've been doing theirs.

I am sick of the mummy who sits next to me "needing help" with her work after spending not insignificant time on the phone and texting every single day about or to her children, and getting to use "needing to pick up the kids" to leave early every day and therefore kicking some project meetings that should be her responsibility over to me because they happen after she's left. Her kids could get home fine on their own by taking a bus and walking.  She just doesn't want to make them (her kids are going to be helpless when they grow up).

And "as long as the work gets done" is also bullshiat.  My workplace clearly under resources on staffing deliberately.  There is always too much work to do for the number of staff we have.  So when the parents abuse their privilege, this makes the non-childed extra bitter because now there's even more "too much work" to do for those left.
2013-05-24 03:29:16 PM
1 votes:

akruse: I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.


Very well put.
2013-05-24 03:07:23 PM
1 votes:
What a bunch of pointless biatching (yes i know, welcome to the internet)

The beauty of at-will employment, which we have in all 50 states of the USA, is that you can quit your job at any time for any reason and move on to something better.  If you feel that you deserve better treatment then go get it.

People wallowing around worrying about what other people get jesus what a waste of time.

I don't have kids, but my coworkers do and I don't give 2 shiats when they adjust their schedule to manage them.  I get to adjust my schedule too.  That's because I work at a company that works with us when life happens.

Stop biatching if you're unhappy and go find a job that makes you happy.
2013-05-24 02:27:23 PM
1 votes:
The issue here is one of equality.  There is a general tendency of people to get angry when they perceive that they are being treated less well than their peers.  In most places, people treat child related stuff like having to leave for work half an hour late because that's when the school bus arrives than non child related things such as my plan to walk every street in my town.  It's because people are generally wired to protect children and protect the functioning of family units.  It's very easy for people with no kids to feel that management is treating the needs of others as more important than THEIR needs, and that's where a lot of resentment can grow.
2013-05-24 01:34:46 PM
1 votes:

Albinoman: Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.


OR, tell parents to STFU about things like strip clubs, bars, clubs, etc. that allow/encourage/enable/require behavior that is child unfriendly.

Those things are usually heavily taxed AND frequented by people without kids, ie., the same people who don't use public facilities like pools, parks, etc as often, and the same people who do not get all kinds of tax breaks for having children.

If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.
2013-05-24 11:35:01 AM
1 votes:

BMFPitt: tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.

See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.

See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.


I study work life in America. It's not as simple as "look elsewhere for a better deal". That presumes a marketplace chock full of an excess of choices. If there were so many excellent jobs with excellent benefits there wouldn't be so many posts such as the ones above.
2013-05-24 11:31:30 AM
1 votes:

hubiestubert: In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.


I prefer to work longer hours Monday through Thursday so that all my work is done, my deliverables are in, and my  meetings are concluded by noon on Friday. That is when I prefer to go live my life. By starting my weekends early and not even looking at work during them. I don't even have work email on my smartphone because when I'm not at work, I'm not at work.

Of course I had one coworker who threw a farking fit over it because I wasn't at my desk on Friday afternoons and he was. My boss had to explain to him that I was getting my work done, and that my Friday afternoons were the equivalent of his showing up an hour late every morning.
2013-05-24 11:27:43 AM
1 votes:
This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.
2013-05-24 11:07:47 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?
2013-05-24 11:05:27 AM
1 votes:

Mr. Chainsaw: I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.


That's legit...but there's PLENTY of parents who abuse the privilege.  Take a full day off for a ten minute doctor appointment, that kind of BS.
2013-05-24 10:59:19 AM
1 votes:

Loren: hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.


In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.

Working parents don't need more personal time--at least not unless you are looking at squeezing folks for 14 hour days consistently. It's about proper planning and proper structures in place. I've used the same sous chef for years, in several places, and she has a family. She has a life. She has been my partner in four separate kitchens, and I've babysat her kids, so that she can get some time outside of the damn kitchen, and away from the kids, to get some down time. She doesn't need more down time because she's a parent, she needs down time because she's human. We all need time away. It helps ground us. It helps us decompress. It gets you in the right mind set to do the work.

What family does is sometimes throw us curveballs, that don't fit schedules. Be that blood relations, or our chosen family. I've sat with cooks who were trying quit a damn ugly habit, and I really hate junkies, but I've held that damn bucket, because they were my people. That was as much a "familial obligation" than anyone that was related to me by blood or by marriage. I got them the leave, I juggled schedules, because it was necessary. Because they mattered.

The question is balance. The question isn't "more" or "less" but understanding that folks shouldn't ever be the job. Yes, I'm a chef. I'm also a father. A friend. An occasional writer. A biker. I spend a fair amount of time at the gym. The chef part doesn't define everything, and if you are only thinking about the job as part of your personal descriptor, then maybe it's time to take a step back.

The job is there. It gets done. You do that with a team. You take care of the team, the job gets done, if you've done your part as a manager. You fill positions with folks you trust to get the work done, and you take care of folks to make that happen. It's not just about hitting numbers, but about making sure that the team is healthy. That they are fulfilled. That YOU are fulfilled in doing it as well. You have to juggle a lot to make that happen, even in the most well run of places, because you are balancing a lot of folks' lives, and folks don't always have lives that fit schedules. Life throws curves, and if you prepare well enough, then you've got structures in place to catch them, and bring the whole shebang back into focus.

If you are only worried about numbers, then I hate to see what your team looks like, because that means that as a manager, you're missing a fairly big part of the picture. EVERYONE needs down time. EVERYONE needs to take five every now and then. A good manager isn't just about managing resources and materials, but managing people and making sure that all the parts are in fit and working order. Human resources is a cold term, but that's what you do. You manage folks, to steer them where they need to be, to get the job done, and just as much as your physical plant needs maintenance, your crew needs it as well. You keep everyone healthy, you keep them grounded, you are taking care of the job and the team. It's just as important as making sure that there is toner in the copier and paper in printer. More so. If you are only worried about raw numbers, you're missing what a manger's job really is about.
2013-05-24 10:48:23 AM
1 votes:

CrazyCracka420: Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).


Maybe he owns a bobcat.
2013-05-24 10:27:13 AM
1 votes:

Brave: How to get special treatment at work:

1. Kids
2. Elderly Parents, Sick Spouse
3. Pregnant

4. Do your job.

but if you really want the magic trump card you have to have

4. Migraines

5. Do your job and act like you are part of a team.

Ah...fixed that up real nice for you.  You are welcome.
2013-05-24 09:53:24 AM
1 votes:

fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.


Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.
2013-05-24 09:51:30 AM
1 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder


I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.
2013-05-24 09:43:53 AM
1 votes:
I find it hard to be mad at people who take off work because of issues with their kids because virtually everyone I work with who has kids seems completely miserable. Work is probably like a vacation for them.

Not saying that to be a "kid hater," just an anecdotal observation.
2013-05-24 09:42:30 AM
1 votes:
That's definitely one thing I like about my job; it doesn't matter if you're hung over and just want to spend the day watching game shows or you have a kid that's spewing vomit like in the Exorcist. Unscheduled time off is unscheduled time off, and no excuse is any more or less valid than any other.
2013-05-24 09:35:08 AM
1 votes:

Walker: This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.


Why don't you report him then. If its every day and blatant, it should be simple for the manager to watch, or a video camera to observe, etc.
2013-05-24 09:27:01 AM
1 votes:
I know I can safely discount any neck bearded idiot who uses the word "breeder" in a serious tone. I you're a virgin in your twenties who frequent "Child-Free" message boards whose main posting population consists of crazy cat ladies.
2013-05-24 09:18:16 AM
1 votes:

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.
2013-05-24 09:17:59 AM
1 votes:
Totally fine with people getting to leave early to do stuff with/for their kids as long as it's cool that I leave early to go handle shiat in my life.  Sick dog, car in the shop, stuff getting delivered etc.  Thankfully, my company has lots of cool people and this has never been a problem.  Well that and I get to work from home most of the time anyway so it's kinda irrelevant.
2013-05-24 09:01:48 AM
1 votes:

steerforth: abhorrent1: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.

Somewhere in there they also need to get on their bicycle, ride in the middle of the street and ignore all traffic laws. And something about kim Kardashian

They also need to have a CCW, a weight problem and a relative/co-worker who deplores porn. Oh, and a lawn. They def need a lawn and a neighbor who is cray-cray.


And a HOA.  Everyone is forgetting about the HOA
2013-05-24 08:44:00 AM
1 votes:
I used to work at a company that we'll refer to as TeamHell. We had a five man department, plus an idiot who couldn't do anything right. Idiot had three screaming kids at home, so he got to leave at five while the rest of us were working fifteen hour shifts to meet the sales team's retarded promises.

During a confrontation with the manager about this, it became very clear that he thought this was imminently reasonable. When I warned him that I planned to go knock up a couple of women in a trailer park to assist them with their welfare fraud and would expect a similar accommodation to my schedule so I could be a responsible baby daddy, he finally snapped and seemed to understand the problem.
2013-05-24 08:30:35 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.

Wow, you're an idiot.


Really.  A lot of employers have used salary as a way to rip off employees.  One of my friends went salary doing the same job.  Later he realized he took a $4/hr paycut.  He was working 50 hours a week and lost all that overtime.
2013-05-24 08:30:06 AM
1 votes:

lack of warmth: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

This.  Not just daycare.

Pichu0102: The problem is that people are willing to accept jobs that aren't lenient as long as work is getting done, and more abusive jobs. That some companies are getting away with treating their employees like garbage and turning them against each other is the real problem.

And This.  Most jobs are like this.

Two issues most people don't have a choice about.  You can't pick only one, either stayed wedged in the middle or don't have a job and kids.  No choice on just staying over, since it could mean jail for not picking up the kids.  Get rid of the job and give up all your stuff and may still lose the kids.

WhippingBoy: I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".

If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.


Well, I disagree about salaried employees being overworked being their problem. Can't a union have salaried workers have a certain workload, and any more costs extra?
2013-05-24 08:24:12 AM
1 votes:

lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.


Wow, you're an idiot.
2013-05-24 08:18:35 AM
1 votes:
If you can't bag out early or come in late every once in a while without using PTO or coming up with some wild excuse, your job blows. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but I assume you already know.
2013-05-24 08:18:18 AM
1 votes:

WhippingBoy: I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".


I demand to be given special rights as a woman in the workplace.
I demand to be able to take off 2 months to give birth and still be allowed to keep my job.
I demand the right to complain about making less pay in spite of working fewer hours.
2013-05-24 08:17:07 AM
1 votes:
If you're pissed off that you're doing much more work than your colleagues with kids, even on regular days, then they're not slacking off - *you* are the one doing too much work.
2013-05-24 08:10:56 AM
1 votes:
The problem is that people are willing to accept jobs that aren't lenient as long as work is getting done, and more abusive jobs. That some companies are getting away with treating their employees like garbage and turning them against each other is the real problem.
2013-05-24 07:54:02 AM
1 votes:
Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.
2013-05-24 07:53:19 AM
1 votes:
Walker

This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS. Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.


This plus he's a big fan of Jebus and has to share with us with the tails of his parenthood greatness. So, not only does he show up a 10 AM, he has to tell the boss and the co-workers (separately) about his morning and how his awesomeness over came adversity. BTW: His one daughter will make Ted Bundy someday look like Al Bundy. She has already figured out that she doesn't have to be honest, she just doesn't have to get caught. Funny but true: She set herself up as admin on the family computer not once but twice. Her latest great episode: She decided to steal some drinks and make a run for it to the apartment wit 4 cops chasing her. Oh and she's 12.

And the hour long phone conversation with the wife about child rearing. That's productive because then he has to reinforce his position on said child rearing with the people in his immediate area.
I could go on, but I'm farking at work. Hey. My work gets done and I take on additional projects.
2013-05-24 07:49:30 AM
1 votes:

Persnickety: desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.

Assuming your employer pays for your health care, chances are your co-worker will end up costing your company much less in the long run.


Not when he gets hit by a car.
2013-05-24 07:49:25 AM
1 votes:

Albinoman: Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.


Are you saying we've set up our social systems to match predominant human behavior and biological realities?  That's crazy talk.  What next?  Public bathrooms?
2013-05-24 07:44:56 AM
1 votes:
Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.
2013-05-24 07:36:30 AM
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.


Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.
2013-05-24 07:35:18 AM
1 votes:

natas6.0: laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender


So do you feel that punctuation and grammar are scams too?
2013-05-24 07:24:35 AM
1 votes:
I don't see why "I have small kids" is a valid excuse fro special treatment. That was your choice to have children, I didn't ask you to, in fact I'd rather you didn't as the the world is overpopulated as it is. Your choice, your problem. No I don't think you having children is somehow making the future better for me, even though people with children seem to insist it does.
2013-05-24 07:23:31 AM
1 votes:
laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender
2013-05-24 07:21:05 AM
1 votes:
If you're annoyed that patents get extra breaks, do what I do: tell the boss you know these people get half days off, and you want one, too, because your work is done and you've got stuff to do.

Or you can be passive-aggressive and whine about not getting what you don't have the balls to ask for.
2013-05-24 07:19:22 AM
1 votes:
I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.
2013-05-24 07:11:20 AM
1 votes:

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


That's because they do the most selfless and important job in the world. Nothing related to their precious snowflakes should ever require them to actually use PTO, because these saints are sacrificing everything to unselfishly care for the continuation of the human species.

The last project I was on, the breeders would come in late and leave early every day. Expected business hours were 8 to 5. They would show up around 9:30 and leave at 4, and this happened every day. We had one who, if her kid was sick and couldn't go to daycare, she'd bring the girl to the office. When one of them got angry that I declined his invite to an 8 pm meeting, he told me 'It's not like you have kids.'

The last straw was when the project manager told me he assumed I wouldn't mind working the week between Christmas and New Year's, when the office is officially closed, because other people have families. I told him having children isn't the only definition of family and went over his head to leave the project. The project I'm on now has not had a similar problem.
2013-05-24 07:08:11 AM
1 votes:
Life isnt fair biatch....its not the 3rd grade anymore. Grow the fark up.
2013-05-24 07:07:16 AM
1 votes:
How about pushing for the 40 hour work week to be enforced? Granted that would take getting rid of all exemptions to overtime, but that's hardly a downside. Also how about pushing for some more time off?
2013-05-24 07:06:21 AM
1 votes:

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.


Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.
2013-05-24 06:53:44 AM
1 votes:
When I was a young, childless associate, I used to feel that way.  Now I'm a partner with 2 kids and a lot of early evening practices and meetings that I need to be at.  The good thing about being an attorney (at least in private practice) is that at the end of the year, they have a convenient little tool called the billable hour to show how hard you have worked... so when you leave the office at 4:30pm, but work on briefs and reports from 8pm until 3am, its all accounted for.  Considering I'm consistently 300 to 500 hours over what any of those young associates are working in a year, I generally feel that if they put all the time into work that they put into gossiping and biatching, they'd probably be as productive as this guy with two kids.

/ Now you want to talk about time wasters - those a-holes with their fantasy football leagues need to be stopped.
2013-05-24 06:36:29 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: This is my solution for cats:

[farm1.static.flickr.com image 396x500]


courtney love 's vagina?
2013-05-24 06:34:26 AM
1 votes:

thamike: log_jammin: Male circumcision is an abhorrent practice and should be outlawed in a civilized society.

Can't they just go outside to do it?  Why do my clothes have to smell?


one time this drunk girl, who was smoking cigarettes, wanted to have sex with me, but I said no because that would be rape.

and I didn't like that she declawed her cats.
2013-05-24 05:20:19 AM
1 votes:
Got promoted last year to a job where my boss says, "As long as the work gets done, your time is your own.". Works great. But of course the work load is greater than before so I can't be f*cking off anywhere/leaving early and all that. I console myself with the fact that my company recognizes the fact that people with kids and other reasons that detract from getting the job done aren't hired for my position in the first place, and I have a greater chance of promotion than they do to an even better job.
2013-05-24 04:27:56 AM
1 votes:
I prefer the ones that stay at work in order to work on their wedding plans.
2013-05-24 04:01:21 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?

We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.


you know what works infinitely better?
not having a cat!

my plants have never been destroyed by a cat
my furniture has never been clawed by a pet
my rug has wine stains, but no vomit nor feces, well not that I put there

/pet owners and their first world problems
2013-05-24 03:22:56 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: He's an indoor cat,


I may have a solution
2013-05-24 02:08:35 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?
2013-05-24 12:35:27 AM
1 votes:

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


My work here is done.
2013-05-24 12:11:59 AM
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.


You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.
 
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