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(Slate)   Working parents who leave the office early are getting away with an "unfair practice" and are "killing office morale." Well, according to the people without kids who are just pissed they can't leave early   (slate.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, working parent, Emily Yoffe, vacation time  
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6053 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 6:42 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
 
2013-05-23 11:35:32 PM
Yeah, this one could be a popcorn kind of thread.
 
2013-05-23 11:42:13 PM
I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.
 
2013-05-23 11:42:59 PM
Yeah. I use my PTO to do that.

So this c*nt can go suck someone's asshole.
 
2013-05-23 11:58:14 PM
Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.
 
2013-05-24 12:11:59 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.


You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.
 
2013-05-24 12:19:56 AM

xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.


With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.
 
2013-05-24 12:22:10 AM

pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.


I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.
 
2013-05-24 12:30:07 AM
When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...
 
2013-05-24 12:31:36 AM

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


That all depends on your cat's opinion on tattoos vis-a-vis douchebagginess.
 
2013-05-24 12:34:02 AM

pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.


I took a couple of days off to get a vasectomy, does that count for anything?

Also, people in my office take time off for their kid's stuff pretty regularly, be it teacher meetings, graduations, being sick, whatever.  I take time for personal stuff, too, when I need to.  No one has said shiat to me about it.

I take a few days around Christmas off, too, and I'm an atheist with no kids.  Want the days?  Schedule your vacation now.
 
2013-05-24 12:35:27 AM

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


My work here is done.
 
2013-05-24 12:38:10 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.


Not quite. We need a tipping angle.
 
2013-05-24 12:40:05 AM
The solution to this is pretty easy:  let people take minor time off (less than a day) for whatever reason.  That's what our company does at the discretion of every manager and it works out very well.  If you have to leave to pick up a sick kid - go ahead and do so.  I don't have kids, and some of my employees don't, but I've approved leaving early for birthdays, anniversaries, car service, PT conferences, traffic, or even going to a concert.

Of course, everyone I work with is an exempt employee, so unless they aren't getting their job done, there's really no reason to tell someone they can't leave when they want.  Our WFH policy runs much the same way.  If you need to work from home for any reason, just make sure your work gets done.  I haven't had a complaint from any employee about unfairness based on having kids.  In fact, the team usually covers for a parent if their kid is sick regardless of whether or not they have kids themselves, and the effort is reciprocated.  The parents keep some running tally in their head, as far as I can figure, and pay back when needed.

Either this guy is hyper-sensitive, his firm is mismanaged, or he thinks that being in the office is a work product.  And if it's that last reason, then he's sadly mistaken.  I'd rather have a productive employee at any hour of the day than someone who is sitting at a particular location doing nothing.
 
2013-05-24 12:42:54 AM

djkutch: Not quite. We need a tipping angle.


This whiner sounds like someone who tips 10% "max". But that's better than parents who go out to restaurants with brats and then don't tip at all.

Also, all parents should circumcise all children. Even the females.
 
2013-05-24 12:44:22 AM

pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.


And that last word starts off a thread about tips.
 
2013-05-24 12:44:50 AM

Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.
 
2013-05-24 12:46:17 AM

Gig103: djkutch: Not quite. We need a tipping angle.

This whiner sounds like someone who tips 10% "max". But that's better than parents who go out to restaurants with brats and then don't tip at all.

Also, all parents should circumcise all children. Even the females.


I'm all for circumcision, but should be done in a room full of women breast feeding.
 
2013-05-24 12:47:10 AM

pizen: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

That all depends on your cat's opinion on tattoos vis-a-vis douchebagginess.


I didn't tip my waiter because my Chicago-style pizza was gross and my Budweiser wasn't cold enough and then I ran over some guy on a bike with my car.
 
2013-05-24 12:48:27 AM

djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.


How much should I tip the servers at the celebratory buffet trip after we circumcise the cat?
 
2013-05-24 12:52:44 AM

Shostie: djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.

How much should I tip the servers at the celebratory buffet trip after we circumcise the cat?


Buffet and barbed cat penis? I'm going with 35%, respectively. These are once in a life time experiences.
 
2013-05-24 12:54:16 AM
It is truly shocking that parents think they are the center of the farking universe at work just like they do everywhere else.

Gig103: Also, all parents should circumcise all children. Even the females.


Have their vocal chords clipped while you are at it.
 
2013-05-24 12:59:11 AM

djkutch: Shostie: djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.

How much should I tip the servers at the celebratory buffet trip after we circumcise the cat?

Buffet and barbed cat penis? I'm going with 35%, respectively. These are once in a life time experiences.


Fartbongo says I don't need to tip if there is a rolling blackout.
 
2013-05-24 01:19:58 AM

djkutch: Buffet and barbed cat penis? I'm going with 35%, respectively. These are once in a life time experiences.


But all they're doing is clearing a few plates away! $1 per adult, $0.50 per child under 21.
 
2013-05-24 01:41:22 AM

Gig103: djkutch: Buffet and barbed cat penis? I'm going with 35%, respectively. These are once in a life time experiences.

But all they're doing is clearing a few plates away! $1 per adult, $0.50 per child under 21.




It's not just clearing the tables, they also have to re stock the food, bring fresh scalpels, and iron the prayer shawls. It's a lot of work to season the foreskins in mu gu gi pan.
 
2013-05-24 01:48:02 AM
You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.
 
2013-05-24 01:57:42 AM
Honestly, I love it when people leave early or take days off so they can spend time with their snowflakes. It's amazing how much quality work I can get done when the drooling breeders get the fark out of the office.
 
2013-05-24 02:02:06 AM

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Won't someone think of the customers' children?!

Holidays were my most productive strip club nights.  Little competition for grateful hotties who had nothing to do after work except me.
 
2013-05-24 02:04:35 AM
I have no problems with people leaving early to be with their kids, unless they are going home to breastfeed. In that case, I believe that they should be executed for being a pornography. I don't make the rules of the cosmos, I just enforce them.
 
2013-05-24 02:08:35 AM

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?
 
2013-05-24 02:11:16 AM
Prudie's correspondent is a new attorney who doesn't understand that she was hired to be worked to the brink of death.
 
2013-05-24 02:44:12 AM

BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?


We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.
 
2013-05-24 03:01:49 AM

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Commie!
 
2013-05-24 03:22:56 AM

Lsherm: He's an indoor cat,


I may have a solution
 
2013-05-24 03:34:11 AM
I'm usually at the office by 8am (to polish my red stapler and attempt to write fark headlines), I run a dept. full of youths, who don't roll in until 10 or 10:30 in their flip flops and with their starbucks who after chatting for an hour finally start to get to work. When not a whole lot gets done because they start so late, and I tell them their projects will get done the next day so rethink your plans, the standard answer is "wat".
/I'm already leaving because I have a home life and resposiblities at home. Besides, my puppies need their bellies rubbed after they're fed.
 
2013-05-24 04:01:21 AM

Lsherm: BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?

We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.


you know what works infinitely better?
not having a cat!

my plants have never been destroyed by a cat
my furniture has never been clawed by a pet
my rug has wine stains, but no vomit nor feces, well not that I put there

/pet owners and their first world problems
 
2013-05-24 04:27:56 AM
I prefer the ones that stay at work in order to work on their wedding plans.
 
2013-05-24 05:00:33 AM
Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.
 
2013-05-24 05:20:19 AM
Got promoted last year to a job where my boss says, "As long as the work gets done, your time is your own.". Works great. But of course the work load is greater than before so I can't be f*cking off anywhere/leaving early and all that. I console myself with the fact that my company recognizes the fact that people with kids and other reasons that detract from getting the job done aren't hired for my position in the first place, and I have a greater chance of promotion than they do to an even better job.
 
2013-05-24 05:34:12 AM

Shostie: djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.

How much should I tip the servers at the celebratory buffet trip after we circumcise the cat?


You must tip in bacon.  But the real tofu stuff, not that bullsh*t pork bacon that keeps gays from global warming.
 
2013-05-24 05:51:04 AM
Male circumcision is an abhorrent practice and should be outlawed in a civilized society.
 
2013-05-24 06:08:18 AM

log_jammin: Male circumcision is an abhorrent practice and should be outlawed in a civilized society.


Can't they just go outside to do it?  Why do my clothes have to smell?
 
2013-05-24 06:26:11 AM
I once left work early to go make a babby. I went to another manager (happened to be the HR) and said, "Hey Ang, I'm leaving early (like 3 PM), MrsOV is ovulating."
"Well, alrightie then."
/csb
 
2013-05-24 06:29:12 AM

Big Merl: djkutch: Shostie: djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.

How much should I tip the servers at the celebratory buffet trip after we circumcise the cat?

Buffet and barbed cat penis? I'm going with 35%, respectively. These are once in a life time experiences.

Fartbongo says I don't need to tip if there is a rolling blackout.


Is that blackout speeding in the left lane?  Goddamn I hate that.  THE SPEED LIMIT IS THE SPEED LIMIT, NO MATTER WHICH LANE YOU'RE IN!!1!!111!
 
2013-05-24 06:34:26 AM

thamike: log_jammin: Male circumcision is an abhorrent practice and should be outlawed in a civilized society.

Can't they just go outside to do it?  Why do my clothes have to smell?


one time this drunk girl, who was smoking cigarettes, wanted to have sex with me, but I said no because that would be rape.

and I didn't like that she declawed her cats.
 
2013-05-24 06:35:11 AM

Lsherm: The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.


This is my solution for cats:

farm1.static.flickr.com
 
2013-05-24 06:36:29 AM

BarkingUnicorn: This is my solution for cats:

[farm1.static.flickr.com image 396x500]


courtney love 's vagina?
 
2013-05-24 06:42:37 AM
Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.
 
2013-05-24 06:49:10 AM

gopher321: Got promoted last year to a job where my boss says, "As long as the work gets done, your time is your own.". Works great. But of course the work load is greater than before so I can't be f*cking off anywhere/leaving early and all that. I console myself with the fact that my company recognizes the fact that people with kids and other reasons that detract from getting the job done aren't hired for my position in the first place, and I have a greater chance of promotion than they do to an even better job.


Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
 
2013-05-24 06:49:24 AM

umad: It is truly shocking that parents think they are the center of the farking universe at work just like they do everywhere else.

Gig103: Also, all parents should circumcise all children. Even the females.

Have their vocal chords clipped while you are at it.


That or just keep the little bastards out of restaurants and other adult establishments until they can behave in public.
 
2013-05-24 06:49:25 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.


While idly scratching at their neck tattoo.
 
2013-05-24 06:50:02 AM
From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.
 
2013-05-24 06:51:19 AM
You're not entitled to a goddamned thing that's not in your employment contract.

Similarly, if you're single and want off early, ask your boss to alter your schedule.  That's generally how the people with kids got it.  Since you don't have to drop any kids off either, you can probably even talk them into letting you come in early and still book the same hours, which isn't an option for the people with kids.

MmmmBacon: Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

Just so you know, ball games and recitals are, in fact, scheduled months in advance, and that's probably when the people in question put in their time off request.  I know my father was never able to show up to anything that wasn't on his scheduled day off (Tuesday, try fitting that into a weekend-centric school/club schedule) unless we gave him the date with like three months of notice.

Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.
 
2013-05-24 06:53:27 AM

BgJonson79: gopher321: Got promoted last year to a job where my boss says, "As long as the work gets done, your time is your own.". Works great. But of course the work load is greater than before so I can't be f*cking off anywhere/leaving early and all that. I console myself with the fact that my company recognizes the fact that people with kids and other reasons that detract from getting the job done aren't hired for my position in the first place, and I have a greater chance of promotion than they do to an even better job.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?


It is, but that bolded part doesn't actually happen anymore, if it ever did.  Promotions are based on nepotism, everybody knows that.  Either that or a lot of folks I know who seem to be pretty damn good workers are secretly really, really bad.
 
2013-05-24 06:53:44 AM
When I was a young, childless associate, I used to feel that way.  Now I'm a partner with 2 kids and a lot of early evening practices and meetings that I need to be at.  The good thing about being an attorney (at least in private practice) is that at the end of the year, they have a convenient little tool called the billable hour to show how hard you have worked... so when you leave the office at 4:30pm, but work on briefs and reports from 8pm until 3am, its all accounted for.  Considering I'm consistently 300 to 500 hours over what any of those young associates are working in a year, I generally feel that if they put all the time into work that they put into gossiping and biatching, they'd probably be as productive as this guy with two kids.

/ Now you want to talk about time wasters - those a-holes with their fantasy football leagues need to be stopped.
 
2013-05-24 06:54:30 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


people with children participate in a future that they wont see
people with no children participatie in a future that they dont care about
 
2013-05-24 06:55:31 AM

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


Ha. If we can resolve those topics then the internet can be ended.

OT. Things should be fair both ways, whether you are going home to your kids or your half dead chia pet and level 50 orc druid.

This cuts both ways though in reality. I may have more times now that I need to leave work for the kid but I am also not hungover every morning anymore. Fair trade I would say.
 
2013-05-24 06:56:15 AM
Justifiably pissed off.

Either let everyone leave early, or take it out of their payed leave.  The end.
 
2013-05-24 06:56:50 AM

Emposter: payed


Paid.  Blargh.
 
2013-05-24 06:57:44 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.


Somewhere in there they also need to get on their bicycle, ride in the middle of the street and ignore all traffic laws. And something about kim Kardashian
 
2013-05-24 06:57:46 AM
No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.
 
2013-05-24 07:02:19 AM
I always make up leaving work early for the kids by coming in late the next morning.
 
2013-05-24 07:03:55 AM
If I need time off for kid stuff, I either take PTO or adjust my schedule. Anyone can do this.

Maybe it is people who gossip and complain without knowing all the facts that kill office morale.
 
2013-05-24 07:04:56 AM

OregonVet: I once left work early to go make a babby. I went to another manager (happened to be the HR) and said, "Hey Ang, I'm leaving early (like 3 PM), MrsOV is ovulating."
"Well, alrightie then."
/csb


A better response would've been "Yeah, I know."
 
2013-05-24 07:05:16 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


Love this bigotry.  And no mention of all the same sex couples with children who could pull the kid card, either.  Good jorb.
 
2013-05-24 07:05:29 AM
Penis. That is all.
 
2013-05-24 07:06:21 AM

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.


Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.
 
2013-05-24 07:07:16 AM
How about pushing for the 40 hour work week to be enforced? Granted that would take getting rid of all exemptions to overtime, but that's hardly a downside. Also how about pushing for some more time off?
 
2013-05-24 07:08:11 AM
Life isnt fair biatch....its not the 3rd grade anymore. Grow the fark up.
 
2013-05-24 07:08:41 AM
Emposter: Justifiably pissed off.

Either let everyone leave early, or take it out of their  payedpaved leaves.  The end.

/fixed
 
2013-05-24 07:11:20 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


That's because they do the most selfless and important job in the world. Nothing related to their precious snowflakes should ever require them to actually use PTO, because these saints are sacrificing everything to unselfishly care for the continuation of the human species.

The last project I was on, the breeders would come in late and leave early every day. Expected business hours were 8 to 5. They would show up around 9:30 and leave at 4, and this happened every day. We had one who, if her kid was sick and couldn't go to daycare, she'd bring the girl to the office. When one of them got angry that I declined his invite to an 8 pm meeting, he told me 'It's not like you have kids.'

The last straw was when the project manager told me he assumed I wouldn't mind working the week between Christmas and New Year's, when the office is officially closed, because other people have families. I told him having children isn't the only definition of family and went over his head to leave the project. The project I'm on now has not had a similar problem.
 
2013-05-24 07:15:42 AM
I work with someone who used the "I have small kids" card to get out of working all of the Saturdays we are open each year (approx. 8 days). When she requested off this upcoming Saturday, our director reminded her that she had taken some time off the previous week to watch her youngest daughter graduate high school; therefore, the "I have small kids " card was no longer in play. My coworker was flabbergasted.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:17 AM

bborchar: From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.


This.

Sadly most companies and their management are too incompetent to measure worker output so instead they just look at who is at their desk.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:22 AM
I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:29 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.


Maybe there should be a push for a 6 hour work day not 8.  Also 8 weeks annual leave at half pay or 4 weeks for Americans as I believe they only get 2 at the moment.

This would lead to less tired employees and increased production.
More time for parents to spend with children:
More people being employed
More money earned in recreational industries since people have more time to spend in them.
Children spending less time in paid childcare.
 
2013-05-24 07:20:17 AM

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.


I ended up having to quit my job three months after I returned from maternity leave because I missed a lot of time because I was unexplainably sick (and my daughter was born with a birth defect needing surgery at one month old with a subsequent infection). Finally, I quit my job because the HR manager was harassing me about missing too much time (after working there for four years and never missing any). My boss was incredibly nice and let me leave when he saw me throwing up constantly. One day after I quit, I was taken to the ER and ended up in ICU for a week because my doctor had completely missed my diagnosis the 4 times I went to him. I had grave's and Addison's disease, and I probably would have been dead of a stroke in another day or two.

My boss made sure I was paid another month's salary after I quit and waived off the extra vacation time I has spent without earning. The HR manager was fired not long after that. Sometimes people just don't understand what is really happening when they get mad about what other people are doing.
 
2013-05-24 07:21:05 AM
If you're annoyed that patents get extra breaks, do what I do: tell the boss you know these people get half days off, and you want one, too, because your work is done and you've got stuff to do.

Or you can be passive-aggressive and whine about not getting what you don't have the balls to ask for.
 
2013-05-24 07:21:39 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


Thank God you're not my boss.
 
2013-05-24 07:23:31 AM
laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender
 
2013-05-24 07:24:35 AM
I don't see why "I have small kids" is a valid excuse fro special treatment. That was your choice to have children, I didn't ask you to, in fact I'd rather you didn't as the the world is overpopulated as it is. Your choice, your problem. No I don't think you having children is somehow making the future better for me, even though people with children seem to insist it does.
 
2013-05-24 07:25:58 AM
Yeesh, just be a college professor. I make my own hours for the most part and nobody says "boo." And it only took 8 extra years of school!
 
2013-05-24 07:26:49 AM

Jim_Callahan: mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.


OK, Mister Grown-up-who-also-resorts-to-using-numbnuts-as-an-insult, I will do that.
 
2013-05-24 07:27:42 AM
The best Star Wars character is Jar Jar Binks on a bicycle.
 
2013-05-24 07:29:01 AM
This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.
 
2013-05-24 07:29:02 AM
Why not equal pay for equal work? If two people spend the same time and effort in the same occupation, and accomplish equal amounts of work, they get paid the same. If one person asks for benefits the other does not, that causes a pay adjustment.

/now, where is my popcorn?
 
2013-05-24 07:29:21 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


THIS. As long as I had my work done, I could tell my boss I was taking the next day off to drink beer and play videogames, and they would say "have fun."
 
2013-05-24 07:32:04 AM

Lsherm: BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?

We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.


I took time off to watch my kids declaw the cat. A valuable life lesson that we've all learned from.
 
2013-05-24 07:32:52 AM

Jim_Callahan: mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.


Wow...a douchebag of your magnitude could clean a whale's vagina.

//legal standards change, @ss.
 
2013-05-24 07:35:18 AM

natas6.0: laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender


So do you feel that punctuation and grammar are scams too?
 
2013-05-24 07:36:30 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.


Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.
 
2013-05-24 07:37:49 AM
Adolf Oliver Nipples:
You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

Dude, that's what keeps sites like this alive: people stuck in front of a computer and not allowed to masturbate.

Anyway, people who choose not to have children are being pretty selfish, don't you think?  So I don't see why they should get special rights to take time off work for no reason.  If I can't leave at 3:30 to take my child to Suzuki violin, where will the next generation of violin players come from?
 
2013-05-24 07:39:21 AM
I want my foreskin back.
 
2013-05-24 07:40:37 AM
Becoming a parent is like a master class in time management. So don't get your panties in a wad just because I'm able to get everything done by 5:00pm.
 
2013-05-24 07:42:26 AM

Jim_Callahan: Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.


I have people skills. What I lack is a child that gets me a free pass on taking time off whenever I feel like it, because "the kid is sick" or "they have a game". And perhaps they schedule things out months in advance at your job, but at mine it more often is scheduled only days in advance. And it's great to be at work reading Facebook posts from said Breeder about being at the beach when they are supposed to be home with their sick kid, or attending their tee-ball game.

Like I said, it's complete BS. Breeders get preferential treatment over people who either choose not to have kids or are incapable of doing so. My wife and I are the latter.
 
2013-05-24 07:43:42 AM

Guest: Adolf Oliver Nipples: You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.

Maybe there should be a push for a 6 hour work day not 8.  Also 8 weeks annual leave at half pay or 4 weeks for Americans as I believe they only get 2 at the moment.

This would lead to less tired employees and increased production.
More time for parents to spend with children:
More people being employed
More money earned in recreational industries since people have more time to spend in them.
Children spending less time in paid childcare.


This makes too much sense.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:24 AM

natas6.0: laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender


Hmm. Asking a school to fax the children's school schedule is not creepy at all.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:25 AM
Your mamma is a breeder.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:56 AM
Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.
 
2013-05-24 07:46:06 AM

desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.


Assuming your employer pays for your health care, chances are your co-worker will end up costing your company much less in the long run.
 
2013-05-24 07:47:14 AM
nocturnal001
punctuation, grammer nazi etc. etc. etc.

shaddup you
I was getting on my soap box
 
2013-05-24 07:48:16 AM
Is working from home
getting a kick, etc
 
2013-05-24 07:49:11 AM
Albinoman:
Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.

It's the only way to get white people to have the critical white babies needed to preserve Real America.

1-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2013-05-24 07:49:25 AM

Albinoman: Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.


Are you saying we've set up our social systems to match predominant human behavior and biological realities?  That's crazy talk.  What next?  Public bathrooms?
 
2013-05-24 07:49:30 AM

Persnickety: desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.

Assuming your employer pays for your health care, chances are your co-worker will end up costing your company much less in the long run.


Not when he gets hit by a car.
 
2013-05-24 07:53:19 AM
Walker

This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS. Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.


This plus he's a big fan of Jebus and has to share with us with the tails of his parenthood greatness. So, not only does he show up a 10 AM, he has to tell the boss and the co-workers (separately) about his morning and how his awesomeness over came adversity. BTW: His one daughter will make Ted Bundy someday look like Al Bundy. She has already figured out that she doesn't have to be honest, she just doesn't have to get caught. Funny but true: She set herself up as admin on the family computer not once but twice. Her latest great episode: She decided to steal some drinks and make a run for it to the apartment wit 4 cops chasing her. Oh and she's 12.

And the hour long phone conversation with the wife about child rearing. That's productive because then he has to reinforce his position on said child rearing with the people in his immediate area.
I could go on, but I'm farking at work. Hey. My work gets done and I take on additional projects.
 
2013-05-24 07:54:02 AM
Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.
 
2013-05-24 07:55:37 AM

Persnickety: Are you saying we've set up our social systems to match predominant human behavior and biological realities?


more like, we've designed social systems to benefit or show favor to certain voting blocks.

E.g art foundations that millionaires dump money into in order to hide it
child credit
student loan interest deduction
mortgage deduction
 
2013-05-24 07:57:24 AM

OregonVet: I once left work early to go make a babby. I went to another manager (happened to be the HR) and said, "Hey Ang, I'm leaving early (like 3 PM), MrsOV is ovulating."
"Well, alrightie then."
/csb


Was she only ovulating for two hours?
 
2013-05-24 08:00:49 AM
Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.
 
2013-05-24 08:01:06 AM
How much time can I get off work for my weekly abortion?  Those frequent fetus cards aren't going to stamp themselves.

/technically it's a kid problem I'm solving, so...
 
2013-05-24 08:04:46 AM

abhorrent1: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.

Somewhere in there they also need to get on their bicycle, ride in the middle of the street and ignore all traffic laws. And something about kim Kardashian


They also need to have a CCW, a weight problem and a relative/co-worker who deplores porn. Oh, and a lawn. They def need a lawn and a neighbor who is cray-cray.
 
2013-05-24 08:05:13 AM
I regularly leave early just so I can rub one off...
 
2013-05-24 08:08:45 AM

djkutch: ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

My work here is done.

Not quite. We need a tipping angle.


Wait... you're suppsosed to tip after getting a circumcision?
 
2013-05-24 08:09:54 AM
www.whiteoak.org

Working class problems.
 
2013-05-24 08:10:56 AM
The problem is that people are willing to accept jobs that aren't lenient as long as work is getting done, and more abusive jobs. That some companies are getting away with treating their employees like garbage and turning them against each other is the real problem.
 
2013-05-24 08:13:27 AM
I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".
 
2013-05-24 08:14:38 AM

WordyGrrl: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

And that last word starts off a thread about tips.


And Benghazi.
 
2013-05-24 08:15:33 AM
Kids on airplanes: GO.
 
2013-05-24 08:16:37 AM
Yeah, f$ck it, little billy snot nose can stand out front of the school for an hour or so waiting for a ride so your ignorant jackhole co-workers can feel better about their vacuous failed lives.
 
2013-05-24 08:16:58 AM
when i worked in an office nobody gave a shiat when somebody left as long as they got their work done

i actually stayed after everybody else most of the time because i didn't want to fight traffic
 
2013-05-24 08:17:07 AM
If you're pissed off that you're doing much more work than your colleagues with kids, even on regular days, then they're not slacking off - *you* are the one doing too much work.
 
2013-05-24 08:18:05 AM
i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-24 08:18:09 AM

dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.


That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.
 
2013-05-24 08:18:18 AM

WhippingBoy: I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".


I demand to be given special rights as a woman in the workplace.
I demand to be able to take off 2 months to give birth and still be allowed to keep my job.
I demand the right to complain about making less pay in spite of working fewer hours.
 
2013-05-24 08:18:35 AM
If you can't bag out early or come in late every once in a while without using PTO or coming up with some wild excuse, your job blows. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but I assume you already know.
 
2013-05-24 08:21:27 AM

ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


As someone who has children and cannot commit as much time and energy to work as someone who doesn't have children, I don't have a problem with this.
 
2013-05-24 08:22:01 AM

dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.


This.  Not just daycare.

Pichu0102: The problem is that people are willing to accept jobs that aren't lenient as long as work is getting done, and more abusive jobs. That some companies are getting away with treating their employees like garbage and turning them against each other is the real problem.


And This.  Most jobs are like this.

Two issues most people don't have a choice about.  You can't pick only one, either stayed wedged in the middle or don't have a job and kids.  No choice on just staying over, since it could mean jail for not picking up the kids.  Get rid of the job and give up all your stuff and may still lose the kids.

WhippingBoy: I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".


If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.
 
2013-05-24 08:23:47 AM
hubiestubert:

(favorite: smart, articulate)
 
2013-05-24 08:24:12 AM

lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.


Wow, you're an idiot.
 
2013-05-24 08:27:35 AM
The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.
 
2013-05-24 08:28:56 AM

fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.


That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.
 
2013-05-24 08:30:06 AM

lack of warmth: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

This.  Not just daycare.

Pichu0102: The problem is that people are willing to accept jobs that aren't lenient as long as work is getting done, and more abusive jobs. That some companies are getting away with treating their employees like garbage and turning them against each other is the real problem.

And This.  Most jobs are like this.

Two issues most people don't have a choice about.  You can't pick only one, either stayed wedged in the middle or don't have a job and kids.  No choice on just staying over, since it could mean jail for not picking up the kids.  Get rid of the job and give up all your stuff and may still lose the kids.

WhippingBoy: I demand that I be given special rights so that I can take care of my children.
I demand that I be able to work less hours as part of these special rights.
I demand that I be paid the same for the "same job".

If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.


Well, I disagree about salaried employees being overworked being their problem. Can't a union have salaried workers have a certain workload, and any more costs extra?
 
2013-05-24 08:30:35 AM

WhippingBoy: lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.

Wow, you're an idiot.


Really.  A lot of employers have used salary as a way to rip off employees.  One of my friends went salary doing the same job.  Later he realized he took a $4/hr paycut.  He was working 50 hours a week and lost all that overtime.
 
2013-05-24 08:32:50 AM
I'm a junior attorney in my late 20s. I work in a busy office that prides itself on work-life balance, and many of my co-workers have young children. Often, these co-workers leave at 4:30 or 5 on the dot to pick up their kids or attend their events, leaving me to stay late (up to several hours) to finish up work that needs to be done.

Sounds like those colleagues are leaving within the hours allowed by their company. If the junior attorney values their work-life balance so much then they should leave at that time too.
 
2013-05-24 08:33:07 AM

Pichu0102: Well, I disagree about salaried employees being overworked being their problem. Can't a union have salaried workers have a certain workload, and any more costs extra?


Unions don't typically protect salaried workers.  Like in my last post my friend not only lost money, but union protection.  He worked for GM.  The union doesn't help salaried workers at my job either.
 
2013-05-24 08:34:18 AM

lack of warmth: A lot of employers have used salary as a way to rip off employees.


And that's one reason, among others, to get rid of exemptions to overtime.
 
2013-05-24 08:34:41 AM

ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.


Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.
 
2013-05-24 08:34:45 AM
Classic big-business tool, If you keep the peons arguing with each other it draws attention away from the big-wigs screwing them over, it's the same tactics monarchs and other heads of states uses to keep their people in line.
 
2013-05-24 08:35:33 AM

WhippingBoy: lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.

Wow, you're an idiot.


Depends on where he works.  For about 15 years I watched my dad get abused on the "you're salaried" deal.  A company run by utter sociopaths (Core-Lube Industrial Coatings) declared him a manager and worked him like a rented mule.  Crazy long and unpredictable hours, random work assignments, trying to manage the borderline illiterate jerkholes that they kept hiring.    Damned near killed him.
 
2013-05-24 08:40:35 AM

fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.

Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.


At that point, just give each employee a set number of personal hours per year and be done with it. Some farkwad will try to guilt extra, though. How to deal with the extreme cases?

A boss will still be in the unenviable position of telling an employee that the job is more important than their child. Better to just go ahead and make the fact the employee values their family more explicit from the get-go.
 
2013-05-24 08:44:00 AM
I used to work at a company that we'll refer to as TeamHell. We had a five man department, plus an idiot who couldn't do anything right. Idiot had three screaming kids at home, so he got to leave at five while the rest of us were working fifteen hour shifts to meet the sales team's retarded promises.

During a confrontation with the manager about this, it became very clear that he thought this was imminently reasonable. When I warned him that I planned to go knock up a couple of women in a trailer park to assist them with their welfare fraud and would expect a similar accommodation to my schedule so I could be a responsible baby daddy, he finally snapped and seemed to understand the problem.
 
2013-05-24 08:47:09 AM

ph0rk: fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.

Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.

At that point, just give each employee a set number of personal hours per year and be done with it. Some farkwad will try to guilt extra, though. How to deal with the extreme cases?

A boss will still be in the unenviable position of telling an employee that the job is more important than their child. Better to just go ahead and make the fact the employee values their family more explicit from the get-go.


Agreed, and that's why for mid-larger companies at least it needs to be part of policy that employees requesting time off do not (and should not) need to justify why.  Take it a step further - if an employee sees that their colleague is getting preferred time off from their manager for a non-business reason, that should be a policy break that would be reported to HR.
 
2013-05-24 08:52:46 AM
I don't actually mind it. Partly because it just doesn't bother me to pitch in a little more and my co-workers don't abuse the privilege, but partly because it also means they're not here trying to convince me their stupid, ugly kids are smart and cute.

By all means I'll finish up your router config and deployment. I'd much rather do that anyway than sit and listen to you tell me about your dumb kid's football tryout.
 
2013-05-24 08:56:47 AM
As much as working in a small office sometimes feels limiting reading some of this stuff makes me soooo glad I no longer work in a large corporate environment having to deal with the politics of the office and general asshattery of people.

Such a huge waste of time dealing with that crap.
 
2013-05-24 08:57:09 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...


Seems like your interpretation of teamwork is hated by most of your employees. And as a supervisor of 150 airmen, it irritates me that I have to look at an airmen and tell him he has to work Xmas nights, weekends, and Xmas because he has Jo dependents. Then I'm expected to council said airmen on why he shouldn't be knocking chicks up. It is a moral killer, it is extremely unfair, and people that can't work because they have kids shouldn't be working.
 
2013-05-24 08:57:49 AM

MmmmBacon: Jim_Callahan: Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.

I have people skills. What I lack is a child that gets me a free pass on taking time off whenever I feel like it, because "the kid is sick" or "they have a game". And perhaps they schedule things out months in advance at your job, but at mine it more often is scheduled only days in advance. And it's great to be at work reading Facebook posts from said Breeder about being at the beach when they are supposed to be home with their sick kid, or attending their tee-ball game.

Like I said, it's complete BS. Breeders get preferential treatment over people who either choose not to have kids or are incapable of doing so. My wife and I are the latter.


So, you're pissed about someone else's productivity as you're browsing Facebook at work.
 
2013-05-24 09:01:37 AM

GORDON: Kids on airplanes: GO.


well are they flying it? because then no.
 
2013-05-24 09:01:48 AM

steerforth: abhorrent1: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.

Somewhere in there they also need to get on their bicycle, ride in the middle of the street and ignore all traffic laws. And something about kim Kardashian

They also need to have a CCW, a weight problem and a relative/co-worker who deplores porn. Oh, and a lawn. They def need a lawn and a neighbor who is cray-cray.


And a HOA.  Everyone is forgetting about the HOA
 
2013-05-24 09:04:43 AM

dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.


The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.
 
2013-05-24 09:05:02 AM

Precision Boobery: Was she only ovulating for two hours?


Actually she was going into work late so we could do the deed... :P

/been stay-home-dad for ten years since
 
2013-05-24 09:07:13 AM

ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


...you act as if that doesn't already happen.  I was demoted for going on maternity leave, and I did my damn job.
 
2013-05-24 09:08:43 AM
When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder
 
2013-05-24 09:09:34 AM

bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.


when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.
 
2013-05-24 09:12:08 AM

Headso: bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.

when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.


Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.
 
2013-05-24 09:14:12 AM
As someone with a 195 IQ (as determined by MULTIPLE online tests), I find this entire discussion distasteful.
 
2013-05-24 09:17:59 AM
Totally fine with people getting to leave early to do stuff with/for their kids as long as it's cool that I leave early to go handle shiat in my life.  Sick dog, car in the shop, stuff getting delivered etc.  Thankfully, my company has lots of cool people and this has never been a problem.  Well that and I get to work from home most of the time anyway so it's kinda irrelevant.
 
2013-05-24 09:18:16 AM

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.
 
2013-05-24 09:18:38 AM

bborchar: Headso: bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.

when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.

Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.


Nope. In fairness to the daycare, some parents are farking unbelievably irresponsible. I guess they figure, the child is in a safe place, so no one will mind if I show up after I finish doing whatever. During football season, some of the parents would drop their 8 year olds off at the beginning of practice and pick them up at the end. I recall one night sitting with a coach and a kid for an hour and a half in the dark waiting for his mother to show up. I stayed so that my son could play with his teammate and keep him occupied. When the mother showed up, her total lack of regard for the situation almost made my head explode. The coach didn't let her have it in front of her son, figuring the little boy was dealing with enough with her as a mother.
 
2013-05-24 09:25:19 AM
It honestly depends if my co-worker is a douchenozzle or a team player.  If they put in effort around the office, are nice to folks, and let me go fishing when I want then sure.  You can do these kind of things in some places but some folks just can't handle it.  Then you have the alcoholic methheads that call in because they got a parking ticket the day before. YMMV, but my experience has been that young, single folks with baggy eyes are the ones to usually call in.  Them and line cooks lol.

On the other side of the coin, telecommuters and flex timers should not be out fun running or bike joy riding at 8am or 5pm on the roads, because you fark up traffic for us working stiffs.  it is just about being thoughtful, which will earn me yet another welcometofark.jpg.
 
2013-05-24 09:27:01 AM
I know I can safely discount any neck bearded idiot who uses the word "breeder" in a serious tone. I you're a virgin in your twenties who frequent "Child-Free" message boards whose main posting population consists of crazy cat ladies.
 
2013-05-24 09:35:08 AM

Walker: This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.


Why don't you report him then. If its every day and blatant, it should be simple for the manager to watch, or a video camera to observe, etc.
 
2013-05-24 09:36:26 AM

natas6.0: nocturnal001
punctuation, grammer nazi etc. etc. etc.

shaddup you
I was getting on my soap box


Not a grammar Nazi. Just messing with you because of your tone. ;)
 
2013-05-24 09:39:09 AM

ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


Okay. That's the de facto reality in many cases anyway, so why not put it in writing?
It beats the old way, when women were turned away from whole sectors of the economy because it was expected they would just get married and have kids some day. Or maybe long term childless women were allowed to work, on condition that they received little pay and no real credit for their contributions. Fab.
 
2013-05-24 09:41:47 AM

REO-Weedwagon: The best Star Wars character is Jar Jar Binks on a bicycle.


I'd argue with you but it's time for my breastfeeding break.

/of course I define breastfeeding as viewing thelocal.se weekend's finest.
 
2013-05-24 09:42:30 AM
That's definitely one thing I like about my job; it doesn't matter if you're hung over and just want to spend the day watching game shows or you have a kid that's spewing vomit like in the Exorcist. Unscheduled time off is unscheduled time off, and no excuse is any more or less valid than any other.
 
2013-05-24 09:42:58 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


I love both the fact that you are a boss and that my boss thinks like you. Not only is the work getting done in a professional and effective way, but people are actually happy at work. The mind boggles.
 
2013-05-24 09:43:08 AM

bborchar: Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.


Oh it's not that they don't know. It's more like they don't care. Saying "I can't work weekends because daycares are not open" is seen as a lame excuse.
 
2013-05-24 09:43:53 AM
I find it hard to be mad at people who take off work because of issues with their kids because virtually everyone I work with who has kids seems completely miserable. Work is probably like a vacation for them.

Not saying that to be a "kid hater," just an anecdotal observation.
 
2013-05-24 09:47:38 AM

bborchar: ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.

...you act as if that doesn't already happen.  I was demoted for going on maternity leave, and I did my damn job.


You did your job while on maternity leave? Impressive.
 
2013-05-24 09:49:47 AM
The same people who take advantage of their co-workers by excessively using their children as an excuse to get out of whatever are the same assholes who would be making excuses to get out of work etc regardless.

It just gives them a more socially acceptable excuse.

Its called work ethic. You either have it or you don't.
 
2013-05-24 09:51:30 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder


I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.
 
2013-05-24 09:53:24 AM

fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.


Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.
 
2013-05-24 09:59:53 AM

log_jammin: BarkingUnicorn: This is my solution for cats:

[farm1.static.flickr.com image 396x500]

courtney love 's vagina?


Vagina dentata?
 
2013-05-24 10:00:59 AM
I volunteer to work between Thanksgiving and Christmas so my cow-orkers can go do stuff with their kids. Those days are cake anyway. But then I feel no remorse for leaving for my own reasons whenever it suits me. Quid Pro Quo. Came in quite handy when dealing with my own little tragedies (got a divorce, dog died of cancer, whatever... no discussion necessary because one hand washes the other).
 
2013-05-24 10:01:10 AM
TFA: "The point is that children, ... are usually a choice. ... Cutting back on your social life, for example, is an option. Cutting back on obligations that allow you to support a child you chose to have is not."

Dead wrong author. Many people choose careers based on the compatibility of the lifestyle with raising planned children. Some people change careers midstream to better balance work and family once they discover a problem. Skilled workers can often *gasp* find other employment in their field if their current employer makes life unmanageable. Yes, there is a cost to that, but just because you have a professional degree doesn't mean your current employer owns you! The same freedom to move exists for child-free employees who feel taken advantage of by shirking peers and unfair policies, only more so, because their households have less geographical inertia. No, life is not "fair" but really, quit whining.
 
2013-05-24 10:03:14 AM
How to get special treatment at work:

1. Kids
2. Elderly Parents, Sick Spouse
3. Pregnant

but if you really want the magic trump card you have to have

4. Migraines
 
2013-05-24 10:06:16 AM

WhippingBoy: fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.

Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.


Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we get paid for results.
 
2013-05-24 10:09:31 AM
Oh, I'd like to add that I'm typing this from my office computer alone because my entire staff has been given the day off to travel or whatever the hell they do when they're not here. I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.
 
2013-05-24 10:12:47 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


We must have graduated from the same school...
 
2013-05-24 10:12:55 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: WhippingBoy: fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.

Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.

Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we ...


Results sure.  But to achieve results there will be several times during the year where on short notice people will need to come in early or stay late, do overtime, work on weekends and travel.  In every company it's consistently the same few people volunteering. This isn't clock-padding.  At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation.  The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.
 
2013-05-24 10:13:32 AM

NCg8r: I volunteer to work between Thanksgiving and Christmas so my cow-orkers can go do stuff with their kids. Those days are cake anyway. But then I feel no remorse for leaving for my own reasons whenever it suits me. Quid Pro Quo. Came in quite handy when dealing with my own little tragedies (got a divorce, dog died of cancer, whatever... no discussion necessary because one hand washes the other).


That's good of you to treat your cow-borkers well.
It's not like they chose that lifestyle - she's trim and pretty in the wedding photos.
 
2013-05-24 10:17:36 AM
You get no sympathy from the working class.  There are no vacations, there are no sick days, there are no lunch or meal breaks, there is no "time off" and you're lucky be able to leave work sometime if something comes up.
 
2013-05-24 10:19:40 AM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-05-24 10:20:21 AM

fozziewazzi: Results sure.  But to achieve results there will be several times during the year where on short notice people will need to come in early or stay late, do overtime, work on weekends and travel.  In every company it's consistently the same few people volunteering. This isn't clock-padding.  At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation.  The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.



I never mentioned clock-padding. It sounded to me like you were making the argument that an employee is more deserving of a bonus if they work overtime, come in on weekends, or travel to get results than a person who gets results during business hours. Overtime IS a bonus. You're being paid more for working more hours than you normally should. If I can produce the same results without costing the company 10 hours of overtime every pay period, I'd say that I was more deserving.
 
2013-05-24 10:27:13 AM

Brave: How to get special treatment at work:

1. Kids
2. Elderly Parents, Sick Spouse
3. Pregnant

4. Do your job.

but if you really want the magic trump card you have to have

4. Migraines

5. Do your job and act like you are part of a team.

Ah...fixed that up real nice for you.  You are welcome.
 
2013-05-24 10:29:06 AM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we get paid for results.


Well said.
 
2013-05-24 10:36:12 AM
time to dump some real gas on this troll fire.

I am going to de-claw my cat.

Women love circumcised dicks waaaaayyyyy better.
 
2013-05-24 10:36:16 AM

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


The fark they do...declawing cats is turrible, I'd never do such a barbaric thing.

Circumcision for cosmetic reasons however, perfectly cool with that.

/not trolling, I understand my double standards
 
2013-05-24 10:38:25 AM
Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).
 
2013-05-24 10:41:27 AM

hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.


You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.
 
2013-05-24 10:44:48 AM

ph0rk: That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


I'm sterilized and childfree. Where do I sign?

fozziewazzi: At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation. The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.


Newsletter?
 
2013-05-24 10:45:31 AM
It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.
 
2013-05-24 10:46:25 AM

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


As long as you only feed your cat a vegan diet and don't get it vaccinated.
 
2013-05-24 10:47:56 AM

trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.


I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.
 
2013-05-24 10:48:23 AM

CrazyCracka420: Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).


Maybe he owns a bobcat.
 
2013-05-24 10:48:41 AM

BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.



Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.
 
2013-05-24 10:55:44 AM

BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.


Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.
 
2013-05-24 10:59:19 AM

Loren: hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.


In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.

Working parents don't need more personal time--at least not unless you are looking at squeezing folks for 14 hour days consistently. It's about proper planning and proper structures in place. I've used the same sous chef for years, in several places, and she has a family. She has a life. She has been my partner in four separate kitchens, and I've babysat her kids, so that she can get some time outside of the damn kitchen, and away from the kids, to get some down time. She doesn't need more down time because she's a parent, she needs down time because she's human. We all need time away. It helps ground us. It helps us decompress. It gets you in the right mind set to do the work.

What family does is sometimes throw us curveballs, that don't fit schedules. Be that blood relations, or our chosen family. I've sat with cooks who were trying quit a damn ugly habit, and I really hate junkies, but I've held that damn bucket, because they were my people. That was as much a "familial obligation" than anyone that was related to me by blood or by marriage. I got them the leave, I juggled schedules, because it was necessary. Because they mattered.

The question is balance. The question isn't "more" or "less" but understanding that folks shouldn't ever be the job. Yes, I'm a chef. I'm also a father. A friend. An occasional writer. A biker. I spend a fair amount of time at the gym. The chef part doesn't define everything, and if you are only thinking about the job as part of your personal descriptor, then maybe it's time to take a step back.

The job is there. It gets done. You do that with a team. You take care of the team, the job gets done, if you've done your part as a manager. You fill positions with folks you trust to get the work done, and you take care of folks to make that happen. It's not just about hitting numbers, but about making sure that the team is healthy. That they are fulfilled. That YOU are fulfilled in doing it as well. You have to juggle a lot to make that happen, even in the most well run of places, because you are balancing a lot of folks' lives, and folks don't always have lives that fit schedules. Life throws curves, and if you prepare well enough, then you've got structures in place to catch them, and bring the whole shebang back into focus.

If you are only worried about numbers, then I hate to see what your team looks like, because that means that as a manager, you're missing a fairly big part of the picture. EVERYONE needs down time. EVERYONE needs to take five every now and then. A good manager isn't just about managing resources and materials, but managing people and making sure that all the parts are in fit and working order. Human resources is a cold term, but that's what you do. You manage folks, to steer them where they need to be, to get the job done, and just as much as your physical plant needs maintenance, your crew needs it as well. You keep everyone healthy, you keep them grounded, you are taking care of the job and the team. It's just as important as making sure that there is toner in the copier and paper in printer. More so. If you are only worried about raw numbers, you're missing what a manger's job really is about.
 
2013-05-24 11:01:28 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...
 
2013-05-24 11:05:27 AM

Mr. Chainsaw: I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.


That's legit...but there's PLENTY of parents who abuse the privilege.  Take a full day off for a ten minute doctor appointment, that kind of BS.
 
2013-05-24 11:07:47 AM

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?
 
2013-05-24 11:11:30 AM

fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.

Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.

At that point, just give each employee a set number of personal hours per year and be done with it. Some farkwad will try to guilt extra, though. How to deal with the extreme cases?

A boss will still be in the unenviable position of telling an employee that the job is more important than their child. Better to just go ahead and make the fact the employee values their family more explicit from the get-go.

Agreed, and that's why for mid-larger companies at least it needs to be part of policy that employees requesting time off do not (and should not) need to justify why.  Take it a step further - if an employee sees that their colleague is getting preferred time off from their manager for a non-business reason, that should be a policy break that would be reported to HR.


The article isn't about that though. It's about the people who leave 30 minutes early and feel they don't need to burn PTO for it.
 
2013-05-24 11:21:49 AM

tripleseven: BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.


Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.


Yeah, I've got one of those too. The VP of Finance, my bosses boss. My favorite late dismissal was two years ago during a large midday snowstorm when she refused to dismiss anyone even as the forecasters warned of the impending doom on the road because, *looks out window* "Its not even snowing that hard, yet". Trying to explain to her that the point was to get out BEFORE the roads got bad was futile. Maybe it was because she drove a Suburban and lived 10 minutes from the office. Anywho, I ended up dismissing my staff without her approval about an hour and a half early. Went to her office and instead of asking if we could leave I told her that they were gone and I was on my way out. She made sure to remind me that we'd all be using annual leave. The roads were as bad as predicted. Took me three hours to get home and I had more close calls than I can remember. Car got stuck a little a few times, almost got rear-ended, barely made it up a couple of hills. When I got home I was farking fuming. I had every intention of quitting the next day. Fortunately for me, the next day it was too bad to go in and after a couple of snow days I had mellowed.


/end CSB
 
2013-05-24 11:27:43 AM
This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.
 
2013-05-24 11:31:03 AM

tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.


See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.


See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.
 
2013-05-24 11:31:30 AM

hubiestubert: In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.


I prefer to work longer hours Monday through Thursday so that all my work is done, my deliverables are in, and my  meetings are concluded by noon on Friday. That is when I prefer to go live my life. By starting my weekends early and not even looking at work during them. I don't even have work email on my smartphone because when I'm not at work, I'm not at work.

Of course I had one coworker who threw a farking fit over it because I wasn't at my desk on Friday afternoons and he was. My boss had to explain to him that I was getting my work done, and that my Friday afternoons were the equivalent of his showing up an hour late every morning.
 
2013-05-24 11:33:24 AM
I don't really keep track of when people leave or show up. As long as their shiat gets done, I don't think it's a problem. And generally, we know when shiat doesn't get done (we have multiple daily deadlines to meet).

Also, I don't really consider people leaving work a little early to take care of a kid or parent or spouse to be off the clock. They're basically going to another job, one I'm pretty glad I don't have.
 
2013-05-24 11:35:01 AM

BMFPitt: tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.

See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.

See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.


I study work life in America. It's not as simple as "look elsewhere for a better deal". That presumes a marketplace chock full of an excess of choices. If there were so many excellent jobs with excellent benefits there wouldn't be so many posts such as the ones above.
 
2013-05-24 11:41:56 AM

E5bie: ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.

Okay. That's the de facto reality in many cases anyway, so why not put it in writing?
It beats the old way, when women were turned away from whole sectors of the economy because it was expected they would just get married and have kids some day. Or maybe long term childless women were allowed to work, on condition that they received little pay and no real credit for their contributions. Fab.


Yep - pretty much everyone wins, except freeloaders. Obviously, any such contract would need some sort of mechanism to revert to "parent pay" if the worker has a kid.
 
2013-05-24 11:43:45 AM

hubiestubert: Loren: hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.

In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.

Working parents don't need more personal time--at least not unless you are looking at squeezing folks for 14 hour days consistently. It's about proper planning and proper structures in place. I've used the same sous chef for years, in several places, and she has a family. She has a life. She has been my partner in four separate kitchens, and I've babysat her kids, so that she can get some time outside of the damn kitchen, and away from the kids, to get some down time. She doesn't need more down time because she's a parent, she needs down time because she's human. We all need time away. It helps ground us. It helps us decompress. It gets you in the right mind set to do the work.

What family does is sometimes throw us curveballs, that don't fit schedules. Be that blood relations, or our chosen family. I've sat with cooks who were trying quit a damn ugly habit, and I really hate junkies, but I've held that damn bucket, because they were my people. That was as much a "familial obligation" than anyone that was related to me by blood or by marriage. I got them the leave, I juggled schedules, because it was necessary. Because they mattered.

The question is balance. The question isn't "more" or "less" but understanding that folks shouldn't ever be the job. Yes, I'm a chef. I'm also a father. A friend. An occasional writer. A biker. I spend a fair amount of time at the gym. The chef part doesn't define everything, and if you are only thinking about the job as part of your personal descriptor, then maybe it's time to take a step back.

The job is there. It gets done. You do that with a team. You take care of the team, the job gets done, if you've done your part as a manager. You fill positions with folks you trust to get the work done, and you take care of folks to make that happen. It's not just about hitting numbers, but about making sure that the team is healthy. That they are fulfilled. That YOU are fulfilled in doing it as well. You have to juggle a lot to make that happen, even in the most well run of places, because you are balancing a lot of folks' lives, and folks don't always have lives that fit schedules. Life throws curves, and if you prepare well enough, then you've got structures in place to catch them, and bring the whole shebang back into focus.

If you are only worried about numbers, then I hate to see what your team looks like, because that means that as a manager, you're missing a fairly big part of the picture. EVERYONE needs down time. EVERYONE needs to take five every now and then. A good manager isn't just about managing resources and materials, but managing people and making sure that all the parts are in fit and working order. Human resources is a cold term, but that's what you do. You manage folks, to steer them where they need to be, to get the job done, and just as much as your physical plant needs maintenance, your crew needs it as well. You keep everyone healthy, you keep them grounded, you are taking care of the job and the team. It's just as important as making sure that there is toner in the copier and paper in printer. More so. If you are only worried about raw numbers, you're missing what a manger's job really is about.


Can I come work for you?

/love to cook
//like your attitude more
 
2013-05-24 11:54:36 AM

smokinbuddha: This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


I hope you are in IT because I could use more of the top talent on your team that is tired of your shiate (if you any top talent left).  You can keep those that haven't left yet because they don't have the talent or skills to go somewhere else.
 
2013-05-24 11:59:15 AM

smokinbuddha: A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.


Yeah, I don't think you can comment on this because you're clearly not in that bracket and nor do you appear to have worked for one!

hubiestubert nailed it.

The boss at my first "proper" (the first step on my career path) job sat me down in my 2nd interview and told me straight out that he didn't care if I worked 3 hours a week, as long as the work was done.  Yes, people went home early, or went to the pub at lunch time, or did what they wanted because all of our work got done and, here's the important bit, our clients were happy and PAID.  That's all it's about.  If you're having to clock-watch your employees to wring every last second of work out of them there are two glaring problems:
1) Your time is valued by the company and by watching everybody how much of your own work do you get done?  Not as much as you should.
2) Your staff are not motivated and/or have low morale.  This may be due to any number of reasons, chief among which tends to be poor pay and/or having an idiot for a manager.

By helping people to have a fulfilling life outside of work you are making an investment in your workforce.  If they're happy at work they're going to be more productive.  If they spend all their time biatching about the overbearing management then that's time that could have been spent working.  Yes, there's a balance and you have to be wary of piss-takers but compromise is a key ingredient to any relationship.  It's a method of management that has served me well for many years.
 
2013-05-24 11:59:46 AM

BMFPitt: tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.

See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.

See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.


Cool, so if you know of any positions in NYC that are looking for a server/network admin with 15 years experience, and a focus on Exchange, let me know.
 
2013-05-24 12:02:58 PM

heili skrimsli: trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.

I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.


You sound not at all bitter
 
2013-05-24 12:03:09 PM
Currently I work with someone the team has nicknamed "Mama drama" for obvious reasons. She started here as a part timer would fill in for people out sick on vacation etc. From day one she needed all types of special accomodation. Come in late leave early on the phone half the day dealing with baby daddys, courts. Her big issue is she has 6 kids from 2 guys IIRC and 2 sets of twins. She misses about 1 day a week and is late about 2 days. We were shocked they hired her full time, because everyone pretty much gave the evaluation that when she worked she was fine but that was for only about an hour a day.
 
2013-05-24 12:04:52 PM
My old office had a woman who'd constantly call in late and blame her kid -- one day she said she had to stay home because the kid's school had a two-hour snow delay.

It was 50 degrees.
 
2013-05-24 12:05:40 PM
I have a solution for all the non-parents. Adopt one of those price of a cup of coffee kids. Put the pictures they send you up in frames. Then use said kid as an excuse to leave early. Problem solved.
 
2013-05-24 12:26:50 PM

CrazyCracka420: Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).


The vet doesn't think he's overfed.  He's an extremely large cat.

Plus, if we don't give him the food that he wants he bites us while we sleep.
 
Pav
2013-05-24 12:40:20 PM
This situation gets treated differently at every different work place.  You don't like how your work place operates?  Talk to your boss or find a new job.  What you should not do is show the world how much of a whiney c#nt you can be on the Internet.
 
2013-05-24 12:40:36 PM
He's extremely large because you let him free range eat (is my guess anyways) and he just keeps eating because he's an animal, and has food in front of him.
 
2013-05-24 12:44:23 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done.


No, but it determines how much you get paid if you are paid hourly. Working X hours and saying you worked X + 2 hours is fraud.

DROxINxTHExWIND: I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.


Then you aren't one of the people that others are complaining about, so STFU.
 
2013-05-24 12:47:57 PM

umad: DROxINxTHExWIND: As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done.

No, but it determines how much you get paid if you are paid hourly. Working X hours and saying you worked X + 2 hours is fraud.

DROxINxTHExWIND: I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.

Then you aren't one of the people that others are complaining about, so STFU.



Its a Friday before a three day weekend. Relax.
 
2013-05-24 12:49:49 PM
I declawed my son. Circumcised my dog. Tipped a smoking breastfeeding lady. And am leaving work early to tattoo Atheist on my face. But I will bill for 8 hours.
 
2013-05-24 12:56:05 PM

JesusJuice: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?


Because they poop in a box and look at you with contempt. DUH. Cats are awesome.
 
2013-05-24 01:09:32 PM

smokinbuddha: This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


Here is the best manager in the thread.
 
2013-05-24 01:25:06 PM

Pontious Pilates: JesusJuice: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?

Because they poop in a box and look at you with contempt. DUH. Cats are awesome.


i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-24 01:34:46 PM

Albinoman: Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.


OR, tell parents to STFU about things like strip clubs, bars, clubs, etc. that allow/encourage/enable/require behavior that is child unfriendly.

Those things are usually heavily taxed AND frequented by people without kids, ie., the same people who don't use public facilities like pools, parks, etc as often, and the same people who do not get all kinds of tax breaks for having children.

If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.
 
2013-05-24 01:36:39 PM

smokinbuddha: I do not make friends with people that work for me. This is the only way. You have to be a dick --- but flexible. I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying. So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


Flexible dick.  Roger.
 
2013-05-24 01:44:01 PM

desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.


Who said that was ok?
 
2013-05-24 01:45:33 PM

trappedspirit: heili skrimsli: trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.

I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.

You sound not at all bitter


Getting fixed was the best thing I ever did for myself.

Also, hooray early weekend. I'm having a beer and some bacon.
 
2013-05-24 01:45:48 PM

Nidiot: Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.


So let's end welfare while we're at it.
 
2013-05-24 01:46:16 PM

PunGent: MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.

May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...


The amount of insanely pure butthurt from those without kids is so satisfying.  I love my little time off angels.
 
2013-05-24 01:47:34 PM

pedrop357: If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.


well, thanks
 
2013-05-24 01:48:07 PM

lack of warmth: WhippingBoy: lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.

Wow, you're an idiot.

Really.  A lot of employers have used salary as a way to rip off employees.  One of my friends went salary doing the same job.  Later he realized he took a $4/hr paycut.  He was working 50 hours a week and lost all that overtime.


Some salaried positions also pay overtime.
 
2013-05-24 01:49:47 PM

stappawho: Nidiot: Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.

So let's end welfare while we're at it.


Two awesome ideas.
 
2013-05-24 01:50:42 PM

kroonermanblack: Walker: This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.

Why don't you report him then. If its every day and blatant, it should be simple for the manager to watch, or a video camera to observe, etc.


Right.  Perfect case of fruad, waste and abuse.
 
2013-05-24 01:55:56 PM
This isn't something we have to deal with in the office.

You have annual leave and sick leave.  If you aren't in the office you are using either one.  Not that complicated.
 
2013-05-24 01:56:57 PM

pedrop357:
If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.


Think you!

; )
 
2013-05-24 02:05:17 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.


They were just surprised that you were sticking around.
 
2013-05-24 02:23:01 PM
I'm on lunch, so CSS time/

I work as part of a shared services team. Recent retirements,new hires and restructuring has changed my job to answering phones in between running the logistics, shipping, and trade show co-ordination of a small EMC company that uses our services (all the companies in the office space are partially owned by one very lovely lawyer/ venture capitalist).  One of the other companies in the office decided that they needed to change their customer service practices and hired the daughter of the president to do this job, taking some of my workload off my desk before I had a nervous breakdown. She's going through a divorce, and has three kids the same age as my three kids. I'm a single mother myself, I have a lot of sympathy for her.  But when I took this job, I decided that I was committed to it. It's a good paying job, it keeps my kids housed, fed, and clothed. I don't have a lot of family help, so my kids have had to sacrifice me and I've had to sacrifice time with them. I like my job now that I'm not supposed to be doing three full time jobs all at once. I'm happier, my kids are responsible most of the time, our lives work.

She's been here six months. In these six months she has been away half the Fridays for God knows what, frequently leaves the office for kid matters, appointments (I always schedule appointments with doctors and dentists on weekends), school things ( her kids are in a charter school), the lawyer she hates, the lawyer she wants to switch to, at her aunt's house to help her move, long lunches with the sales team, illness, family vacations... There are days where I'm back to where I was. I do the job as I did it when it was part of my responsibility list. This makes the CEO of that company pissed, but I cannot spend precious time hand holding everyone, as I have other companies with clients that require hand holding as well, and they also suffer. The Shared services book keeper frequently complains to the CFO and the supremo boss about this woman's hours and sees the stress this can cause. When I'm dealing with one company's customer orders, plus shipping out materials for them, plus shipping orders for the EMC company currently using 60% of my time, plus trying to arrange shipments and pickups half way across the world because the reps are useless, plus dealing with Chinese customs via a freight forwarder who demanded cash payment at the show, and then invoices you on top of that SIX TIMES, plus answering the phones for upwards of 50 various companies, all of them in my head so I know who to pass the call off to, and also filing and filling out my boss' expense report - and you have to run home because your kid is whining they forgot their school issued iPad at home, and it takes you three hours? Fark you. Laws of natural consequence- my kids have forgotten lunches, school supplies, library books, permission slips. I have never run home to get these things for them. They learn after a couple of times to make sure they have all their stuff together.

I use vacation days if I have to spend some time dealing with school stuff. I can use "personal time", but I want to use it for actual emergencies, not because I scheduled a meeting at my youngest's school to discuss her IPP. I'll use a vacation day. It's only fair to my co-workers that I show up and do my job. Because believe me, covering for me when I take a day off- that's a nightmare for all involved. Last day I took off, I ended up doing two hours of work from home because one of our reps screwed up a shipment and I'm the only one who speaks the language of FedEx Global Trade Networks. The marketing director paid me back with a Starbucks gift card, which is better than a day off in my world.

I get it. You have precious snowflakes. So do I. But I know I cannot be supermom if I work full time. Yes, my kids have taken a lot of extra responsibilities, but they are fine. In fact, they seem better prepared for the real world than their friends. Most of the time. They're still kids prone to narcissistic whining about clothes, money and boys, after all.

I just want this woman to be here to do her job so I can actually focus on mine.

/Have been literally forced to take vacation days by my manager. I like my job now, and I sometimes like it more than my teenagers. So sue me.
// Used a vacation day for my eldest daughter's ninth grade grad.
 
2013-05-24 02:26:41 PM
tl,dr
 
2013-05-24 02:27:23 PM
The issue here is one of equality.  There is a general tendency of people to get angry when they perceive that they are being treated less well than their peers.  In most places, people treat child related stuff like having to leave for work half an hour late because that's when the school bus arrives than non child related things such as my plan to walk every street in my town.  It's because people are generally wired to protect children and protect the functioning of family units.  It's very easy for people with no kids to feel that management is treating the needs of others as more important than THEIR needs, and that's where a lot of resentment can grow.
 
2013-05-24 02:28:44 PM

Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.


A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.
 
2013-05-24 02:33:43 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.


I'll leave this here:
jokesfb.com
 
2013-05-24 02:46:32 PM

Snarfangel: DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.

I'll leave this here:
[jokesfb.com image 600x451]



/+1
 
2013-05-24 02:50:35 PM

stewmadness: PunGent: MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.

May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...

The amount of insanely pure butthurt from those without kids is so satisfying.  I love my little time off angels.


That's the kind of attitude that fosters workplace shootings.
 
2013-05-24 03:07:23 PM
What a bunch of pointless biatching (yes i know, welcome to the internet)

The beauty of at-will employment, which we have in all 50 states of the USA, is that you can quit your job at any time for any reason and move on to something better.  If you feel that you deserve better treatment then go get it.

People wallowing around worrying about what other people get jesus what a waste of time.

I don't have kids, but my coworkers do and I don't give 2 shiats when they adjust their schedule to manage them.  I get to adjust my schedule too.  That's because I work at a company that works with us when life happens.

Stop biatching if you're unhappy and go find a job that makes you happy.
 
2013-05-24 03:13:15 PM

palais: I'm on lunch, so CSS time/

I work as part of a shared services team. Recent retirements,new hires and restructuring has changed my job to answering phones in between running the logistics, shipping, and trade show co-ordination of a small EMC company that uses our services (all the companies in the office space are partially owned by one very lovely lawyer/ venture capitalist).  One of the other companies in the office decided that they needed to change their customer service practices and hired the daughter of the president to do this job, taking some of my workload off my desk before I had a nervous breakdown. She's going through a divorce, and has three kids the same age as my three kids. I'm a single mother myself, I have a lot of sympathy for her.  But when I took this job, I decided that I was committed to it. It's a good paying job, it keeps my kids housed, fed, and clothed. I don't have a lot of family help, so my kids have had to sacrifice me and I've had to sacrifice time with them. I like my job now that I'm not supposed to be doing three full time jobs all at once. I'm happier, my kids are responsible most of the time, our lives work.

She's been here six months. In these six months she has been away half the Fridays for God knows what, frequently leaves the office for kid matters, appointments (I always schedule appointments with doctors and dentists on weekends), school things ( her kids are in a charter school), the lawyer she hates, the lawyer she wants to switch to, at her aunt's house to help her move, long lunches with the sales team, illness, family vacations... There are days where I'm back to where I was. I do the job as I did it when it was part of my responsibility list. This makes the CEO of that company pissed, but I cannot spend precious time hand holding everyone, as I have other companies with clients that require hand holding as well, and they also suffer. The Shared services book keeper frequently complains to the CFO and the supremo ...


So much, this.

"as long as the work gets done" is a perfectly fine mantra when it comes to letting people have some time off. But every place I have worked in my 13-year career, I am pretty much asked to account for (at a minimum) a 45 hour workweek in my project time tracking (I am in software development). So essentially the notion of "so long as the work gets done, people can take personal time for free whenever" only works when people are actually only assigned a workload appropriate to a 40-45 hour work week. When your role, or your group, is consistently firefighting and overloaded, THERE IS NOT ANY FREE TIME and it's possible to work a 16 hour workday every day of the week from now till the end of time.

And in my experience, that's when your boss starts asking you WHY you want to leave early and WHY you want that day off, or whatever. And crotchfruit are always viewed as being a legitimate reason why you need to take time off.

I'm an amateur cyclist and I spend 12-15 hours a week training, and go to a minimum of two races a week, which is like having a second part time job in and of itself. My wife and I have chosen not to have kids, because it doesn't fit with this aspect of my life as well as other choices we've made. But if I tell my boss that I want to actually leave work at 4 today (my office hours are 7:30-4) if there's anything pressing (which there nearly always is) because I want to make it to a group ride or a weeknight race - oh boy, I farked up in a big way by admitting what I wanted to leave for. I have to be deliberately obtuse and act like every one of my "flex work arrangement" instances is a super sensitive personal issue, otherwise I know I will get dissed. At some employers, I have even had to go to some pretty great lengths to hide the fact that I am a cyclist at all, which is actually massively inconvenient.

I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.
 
2013-05-24 03:25:05 PM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


You hiring?
 
2013-05-24 03:29:16 PM

akruse: I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.


Very well put.
 
2013-05-24 03:51:53 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.


Okay, why do watermelons have fancy weddings? Because they cantaloupe.
 
2013-05-24 04:01:50 PM

Fear the Clam: Okay, why do watermelons have fancy weddings? Because they cantaloupe.


WATERMELON!

CANTELOUPE!


rhubarbrhubarb rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb

/obscure?
 
2013-05-24 05:07:30 PM
Well I've never worked in an office, but...one of my old jobs involved pooling tips to split between everyone at the end of the week based on hours worked, and I was typically the one who counted up all the money and handed it out to people. The one woman in the joint who had kids (and therefore was obviously usually late, called out often, had to leave early all the time, blah blah) used to come up to me as I was counting the money and start acting all friendly and chatty and slip in "Hey so, when you hand out the money, please make sure you remember that I have two kids..." Haha farking really? That was a kick.
 
2013-05-24 05:09:49 PM

wolfpaq777: The beauty of at-will employment, which we have in all 50 states of the USA, is that you can quit your job at any time for any reason and move on to something better.


Unless you have a non-compete that prevents you from doing that.  Luckily they're nigh-unenforceable in California.
 
2013-05-24 05:19:19 PM
I mean, this entire article/threadrant is basically more the fault of the management culture at wherever this person works. I've worked at places that were great, very equitable. As long as things were covered, single parents, paired parents, single folks, whoever, as long as the work was getting done, you could get some time off if you needed it. I even was able to get a couple of months off because of a medical emergency in the family that required my presence in another city to make medical decisions.

But I do sympathise with the person in the article, because I've also been in places with, what can best be termed "activist" management. Where married folks, folks with kids, people with boyfriends and girlfriends, etc are all consistently given the best shifts, the most leniency with time off, etc, and the singletons get SHAFTED with odd shifts, working holidays so the people with "Families" can spend them with their families(because having a wife and kids is the only definition of family, right). Working odd hour shifts because "hey, you don't have anything going on anyway and all these people do". It's been a couple of years and I still want to punch that guy in the dick.

I've also had a manager straight up tell me that a job me and guywithnewbaby were both going for went to him because he needed it more being a new father despite the fact that I was the better performer, with nearly twice his work output. I being a single person without kids didn't need the job as much. So I got to stay where i was. I always suspected there was something flat out illegal about that, but I was too busy working 60hr weeks there, and too broke at the time to actually pursue it, and then they went out of business.

So I guess to sum up, good management can be good. Bad management is bad.
 
2013-05-24 05:56:07 PM

neongoats: Where married folks, folks with kids, people with boyfriends and girlfriends, etc are all consistently given the best shifts, the most leniency with time off, etc



Really?  That's kind of random.  Meanwhile I'd rather work through the night than leave for any of the reasons parents have to suddenly leave.
 
2013-05-24 06:03:58 PM

Abox: neongoats: Where married folks, folks with kids, people with boyfriends and girlfriends, etc are all consistently given the best shifts, the most leniency with time off, etc


Really?  That's kind of random.  Meanwhile I'd rather work through the night than leave for any of the reasons parents have to suddenly leave.


They were a couple that worked together. Sat together. Ate lunch together. So any change to one, without an identical change to the other and both would throw a fit

I did enjoy working at night, once I really learned what the culture of the company was. Visibility over work output, etc. And eventually left the company. Will never, ever, EVER work for a similarly large company again.
 
2013-05-24 06:30:10 PM

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.


because feminism?
/and the Israel Palestine conflict
//and AssBurger's and the DSM-5
///and your mom
 
2013-05-24 07:06:12 PM

coco ebert: I study work life in America. It's not as simple as "look elsewhere for a better deal". That presumes a marketplace chock full of an excess of choices. If there were so many excellent jobs with excellent benefits there wouldn't be so many posts such as the ones above.


It presumes no such thing.  Everything is a trade-off.  If holiday work requirements are of a high enough priority to you, you'll get a job where you get holidays off.  If you couldn't get a job that is as good in terms of salary or other considerations without those requirements, then that difference is the premium you are being paid for them.
 
2013-05-24 08:32:38 PM

hubiestubert: It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...


Oh fark you.  It because of the MASSIVE IMBALANCE that people complain.  It's never teamwork, it's always the people with children taking advantage of the people without children, and the people without children never get fair consideration of their "personal needs".  Managers are frankly scared of challenging parents, and they figure they have nothing to lose by squeezing the lost productivity out of everyone else.

If it was fair my non-childed co-worker wouldn't have had to threaten legal action to be allowed to use her contractually guaranteed domestic leave to care for her dying mother (who was her dependent, and therefore fell under the "domestic leave" policy), when the parents are always dodging out without warning for often spurious child-related this and that and the other.  If it was fair my non-childed co-worker who is working on his degree would not have to use vacation leave to leave an hour early for class once a week, when there are parents who leave early or arrive late every week but are allowed to use "flex" time to do so.  Flex time is supposed to be for everyone's benefit.  Just don't try to use it if you don't have kids.

I am one of those people who always works through holiday periods so people with kids can take them away on a trip or look after them at home.   At Christmas that leaves me doing the work of four people for a few weeks.  Frankly I am sick to the back teeth of carrying other people's workload when because of their "personal commitments" they can never help me with mine, even after I've got behind in my own work because I've been doing theirs.

I am sick of the mummy who sits next to me "needing help" with her work after spending not insignificant time on the phone and texting every single day about or to her children, and getting to use "needing to pick up the kids" to leave early every day and therefore kicking some project meetings that should be her responsibility over to me because they happen after she's left. Her kids could get home fine on their own by taking a bus and walking.  She just doesn't want to make them (her kids are going to be helpless when they grow up).

And "as long as the work gets done" is also bullshiat.  My workplace clearly under resources on staffing deliberately.  There is always too much work to do for the number of staff we have.  So when the parents abuse their privilege, this makes the non-childed extra bitter because now there's even more "too much work" to do for those left.
 
2013-05-24 10:07:48 PM

if_i_really_have_to: hubiestubert: It's called teamwork. Try it. Or maybe you can whine that you're not getting your cookie at the same time that others are. Because that's so attractive and shows your willingness to be a part of team...

Oh fark you.  It because of the MASSIVE IMBALANCE that people complain.  It's never teamwork, it's always the people with children taking advantage of the people without children, and the people without children never get fair consideration of their "personal needs".  Managers are frankly scared of challenging parents, and they figure they have nothing to lose by squeezing the lost productivity out of everyone else.

If it was fair my non-childed co-worker wouldn't have had to threaten legal action to be allowed to use her contractually guaranteed domestic leave to care for her dying mother (who was her dependent, and therefore fell under the "domestic leave" policy), when the parents are always dodging out without warning for often spurious child-related this and that and the other.  If it was fair my non-childed co-worker who is working on his degree would not have to use vacation leave to leave an hour early for class once a week, when there are parents who leave early or arrive late every week but are allowed to use "flex" time to do so.  Flex time is supposed to be for everyone's benefit.  Just don't try to use it if you don't have kids.

I am one of those people who always works through holiday periods so people with kids can take them away on a trip or look after them at home.   At Christmas that leaves me doing the work of four people for a few weeks.  Frankly I am sick to the back teeth of carrying other people's workload when because of their "personal commitments" they can never help me with mine, even after I've got behind in my own work because I've been doing theirs.

I am sick of the mummy who sits next to me "needing help" with her work after spending not insignificant time on the phone and texting every single day about or to her child ...


That rant is exactly why you are Farkied like you. Thanks for not failing me.
 
2013-05-25 12:27:20 AM
I've seen just as many single/childless managers get all crotchy about subordinates with kids taking more sick days than the norm, etc, as I have the type of favoritism everyone is biatching about in this thread. It can cut both ways, you know. Everyone who speaks of an open, honest management culture that recognizes "hey, shiat happens" and cares more about output than clocks has it right.

In fact one time, my childless boss wanted me to make a strike against my supervisee in her annual review because "she was taking a lot of sick days for her kids." Well, she only used exactly what she was allotted (though she was always right near the limit) and most importantly, she got shiat done, and did quality work. What exactly was I supposed to ding her on?

It cuts both ways, that's all I'm saying.
 
2013-05-25 12:53:57 AM

Pontious Pilates: I've seen just as many single/childless managers get all crotchy about subordinates with kids taking more sick days than the norm, etc, as I have the type of favoritism everyone is biatching about in this thread. It can cut both ways, you know. Everyone who speaks of an open, honest management culture that recognizes "hey, shiat happens" and cares more about output than clocks has it right.

In fact one time, my childless boss wanted me to make a strike against my supervisee in her annual review because "she was taking a lot of sick days for her kids." Well, she only used exactly what she was allotted (though she was always right near the limit) and most importantly, she got shiat done, and did quality work. What exactly was I supposed to ding her on?

It cuts both ways, that's all I'm saying.


I was at a company years ago that tried that, but the single folks were taking sick days for hangovers, and running up against the same sick day limit.  I asked why we were trying to penalize people for taking their allocated leave.  No one had an answer.

I still get a chuckle when one of my employees calls in and leaves a voice mail at 4am - "I'm too drunk to be worthwhile tomorrow, I'm taking a sick day."  It's perfectly fine and within their rights since everyone has 10 sick days to take each year.  I don't even need to know they are drunk - they just have to ask for a sick day.  But they like to brag about it.

All I've ever asked from any employee is to give me notice ahead of time before the morning starts, and to make sure their work is covered.  I've had a few occasions where someone wasn't doing their work and was calling in sick, but that's easily corrected.  They learn early on that as long as you have your work covered, you can get blottoed on Tuesday, fark the random French chick at the bar, and take Wednesday off.  But if you can't cover your work, or I don't know your status?  That's a firing.

The parents are a different breed.  They frequently have to take off early for unexpected crises with their kids, but I'll ask them to volunteer for weekend overnight work to compensate.  They can do it from home, but it lets someone else younger off the hook so they can go out and drink, fark, and be merry.

If you manage it all correctly, no one feels like they are getting the shaft.
 
2013-05-25 09:20:50 AM

Pontious Pilates: I've seen just as many single/childless managers get all crotchy about subordinates with kids taking more sick days than the norm, etc, as I have the type of favoritism everyone is biatching about in this thread. It can cut both ways, you know.


But that is the fairer behavior right...not allowing anyone to take excessive time off?  Although I do agree that a boss complaining about someone taking their alloted days off is strange...our management actually encourages us to burn our remaining time off at year end so we don't lose it.  Where I work it's pretty common for folks on the fringe, either kid related or just high drama types, to go over their allotment.  They usually have other issues though and the attendance just ends up being the easy get for termination.
 
2013-05-25 11:51:34 AM
I can sympathize with Walker.  I, too, have a specific time commitment I'm under because of co-workers.  Team of 2 people, 1 is supposed to be the early person, 1 working the late shift - 5 hour overlap.  They start out trading off every month, then all of a sudden 1 decides he's not going to pay for after-school care and is claiming the non-child-having co-worker is going to have to have to take the late shift so he can leave and pick up his kids.  Non-child-having co-worker complains to HR, and rather than management dealing with the problem, now BOTH of them work the early shift and I spend an extra hour a day in traffic, as well as the extra money for gas and parking going downtown (which boss says I can't expense because "you work where we tell you"), just so I can be available to answer a phone for 30 minutes a day from 5:00-5:30pm.  So no leaving early for me at all.

As far as vacations, out of the four people in my immediate group that can't schedule PTO at the same time, two of them have school-age kids and they're always bickering about who is taking off spring break and around Christmas.  More than once I've had to sit in a meeting with all of us and management and remind all of them that it doesn't matter that they have kids, they can't be given preferential treatment for time off if someone else asked first.  Both of them act like if they work it out between *themselves*, then that's all that matters.

/fark your "precious memories I'll never get to have again because they're only six once"
 
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