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(Slate)   Working parents who leave the office early are getting away with an "unfair practice" and are "killing office morale." Well, according to the people without kids who are just pissed they can't leave early   (slate.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, working parent, Emily Yoffe, vacation time  
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6063 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 6:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 11:11:30 AM  

fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: ph0rk: fozziewazzi: The easiest way to resolve this is not to justify why you need to come in late or leave early.  The same applies to people who turn down overtime or weekend work.  Just say you need the personal time, period.  The 'why' is irrelevant.  Attempting to justify it puts the boss in the position of making a value judgment.  And he might decide that someone who wants to attend their kids ballgame is ok but someone who wants to go see a concert with friends is not.  And that's where the workplace problems start.

That would require trustworthy employees, or at least a gullible boss.

Not really.  With no justification for requested time off the boss can treat everyone equally.  He can base his decision on the needs of the business and the value/performance of that employee.  But once an employee starts inserting a justification for the requested time off the manager is immediately put in the position of making that value judgment, and that inevitably leads to problems.

At that point, just give each employee a set number of personal hours per year and be done with it. Some farkwad will try to guilt extra, though. How to deal with the extreme cases?

A boss will still be in the unenviable position of telling an employee that the job is more important than their child. Better to just go ahead and make the fact the employee values their family more explicit from the get-go.

Agreed, and that's why for mid-larger companies at least it needs to be part of policy that employees requesting time off do not (and should not) need to justify why.  Take it a step further - if an employee sees that their colleague is getting preferred time off from their manager for a non-business reason, that should be a policy break that would be reported to HR.


The article isn't about that though. It's about the people who leave 30 minutes early and feel they don't need to burn PTO for it.
 
2013-05-24 11:21:49 AM  

tripleseven: BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.


Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.


Yeah, I've got one of those too. The VP of Finance, my bosses boss. My favorite late dismissal was two years ago during a large midday snowstorm when she refused to dismiss anyone even as the forecasters warned of the impending doom on the road because, *looks out window* "Its not even snowing that hard, yet". Trying to explain to her that the point was to get out BEFORE the roads got bad was futile. Maybe it was because she drove a Suburban and lived 10 minutes from the office. Anywho, I ended up dismissing my staff without her approval about an hour and a half early. Went to her office and instead of asking if we could leave I told her that they were gone and I was on my way out. She made sure to remind me that we'd all be using annual leave. The roads were as bad as predicted. Took me three hours to get home and I had more close calls than I can remember. Car got stuck a little a few times, almost got rear-ended, barely made it up a couple of hills. When I got home I was farking fuming. I had every intention of quitting the next day. Fortunately for me, the next day it was too bad to go in and after a couple of snow days I had mellowed.


/end CSB
 
2013-05-24 11:27:43 AM  
This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.
 
2013-05-24 11:31:03 AM  

tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.


See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.


See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.
 
2013-05-24 11:31:30 AM  

hubiestubert: In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.


I prefer to work longer hours Monday through Thursday so that all my work is done, my deliverables are in, and my  meetings are concluded by noon on Friday. That is when I prefer to go live my life. By starting my weekends early and not even looking at work during them. I don't even have work email on my smartphone because when I'm not at work, I'm not at work.

Of course I had one coworker who threw a farking fit over it because I wasn't at my desk on Friday afternoons and he was. My boss had to explain to him that I was getting my work done, and that my Friday afternoons were the equivalent of his showing up an hour late every morning.
 
2013-05-24 11:33:24 AM  
I don't really keep track of when people leave or show up. As long as their shiat gets done, I don't think it's a problem. And generally, we know when shiat doesn't get done (we have multiple daily deadlines to meet).

Also, I don't really consider people leaving work a little early to take care of a kid or parent or spouse to be off the clock. They're basically going to another job, one I'm pretty glad I don't have.
 
2013-05-24 11:35:01 AM  

BMFPitt: tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.

See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.

See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.


I study work life in America. It's not as simple as "look elsewhere for a better deal". That presumes a marketplace chock full of an excess of choices. If there were so many excellent jobs with excellent benefits there wouldn't be so many posts such as the ones above.
 
2013-05-24 11:41:56 AM  

E5bie: ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.

Okay. That's the de facto reality in many cases anyway, so why not put it in writing?
It beats the old way, when women were turned away from whole sectors of the economy because it was expected they would just get married and have kids some day. Or maybe long term childless women were allowed to work, on condition that they received little pay and no real credit for their contributions. Fab.


Yep - pretty much everyone wins, except freeloaders. Obviously, any such contract would need some sort of mechanism to revert to "parent pay" if the worker has a kid.
 
2013-05-24 11:43:45 AM  

hubiestubert: Loren: hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.

In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.

Working parents don't need more personal time--at least not unless you are looking at squeezing folks for 14 hour days consistently. It's about proper planning and proper structures in place. I've used the same sous chef for years, in several places, and she has a family. She has a life. She has been my partner in four separate kitchens, and I've babysat her kids, so that she can get some time outside of the damn kitchen, and away from the kids, to get some down time. She doesn't need more down time because she's a parent, she needs down time because she's human. We all need time away. It helps ground us. It helps us decompress. It gets you in the right mind set to do the work.

What family does is sometimes throw us curveballs, that don't fit schedules. Be that blood relations, or our chosen family. I've sat with cooks who were trying quit a damn ugly habit, and I really hate junkies, but I've held that damn bucket, because they were my people. That was as much a "familial obligation" than anyone that was related to me by blood or by marriage. I got them the leave, I juggled schedules, because it was necessary. Because they mattered.

The question is balance. The question isn't "more" or "less" but understanding that folks shouldn't ever be the job. Yes, I'm a chef. I'm also a father. A friend. An occasional writer. A biker. I spend a fair amount of time at the gym. The chef part doesn't define everything, and if you are only thinking about the job as part of your personal descriptor, then maybe it's time to take a step back.

The job is there. It gets done. You do that with a team. You take care of the team, the job gets done, if you've done your part as a manager. You fill positions with folks you trust to get the work done, and you take care of folks to make that happen. It's not just about hitting numbers, but about making sure that the team is healthy. That they are fulfilled. That YOU are fulfilled in doing it as well. You have to juggle a lot to make that happen, even in the most well run of places, because you are balancing a lot of folks' lives, and folks don't always have lives that fit schedules. Life throws curves, and if you prepare well enough, then you've got structures in place to catch them, and bring the whole shebang back into focus.

If you are only worried about numbers, then I hate to see what your team looks like, because that means that as a manager, you're missing a fairly big part of the picture. EVERYONE needs down time. EVERYONE needs to take five every now and then. A good manager isn't just about managing resources and materials, but managing people and making sure that all the parts are in fit and working order. Human resources is a cold term, but that's what you do. You manage folks, to steer them where they need to be, to get the job done, and just as much as your physical plant needs maintenance, your crew needs it as well. You keep everyone healthy, you keep them grounded, you are taking care of the job and the team. It's just as important as making sure that there is toner in the copier and paper in printer. More so. If you are only worried about raw numbers, you're missing what a manger's job really is about.


Can I come work for you?

/love to cook
//like your attitude more
 
2013-05-24 11:54:36 AM  

smokinbuddha: This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


I hope you are in IT because I could use more of the top talent on your team that is tired of your shiate (if you any top talent left).  You can keep those that haven't left yet because they don't have the talent or skills to go somewhere else.
 
2013-05-24 11:59:15 AM  

smokinbuddha: A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.


Yeah, I don't think you can comment on this because you're clearly not in that bracket and nor do you appear to have worked for one!

hubiestubert nailed it.

The boss at my first "proper" (the first step on my career path) job sat me down in my 2nd interview and told me straight out that he didn't care if I worked 3 hours a week, as long as the work was done.  Yes, people went home early, or went to the pub at lunch time, or did what they wanted because all of our work got done and, here's the important bit, our clients were happy and PAID.  That's all it's about.  If you're having to clock-watch your employees to wring every last second of work out of them there are two glaring problems:
1) Your time is valued by the company and by watching everybody how much of your own work do you get done?  Not as much as you should.
2) Your staff are not motivated and/or have low morale.  This may be due to any number of reasons, chief among which tends to be poor pay and/or having an idiot for a manager.

By helping people to have a fulfilling life outside of work you are making an investment in your workforce.  If they're happy at work they're going to be more productive.  If they spend all their time biatching about the overbearing management then that's time that could have been spent working.  Yes, there's a balance and you have to be wary of piss-takers but compromise is a key ingredient to any relationship.  It's a method of management that has served me well for many years.
 
2013-05-24 11:59:46 AM  

BMFPitt: tripleseven: Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.

See how that problem is self-correcting?  Nice to see someone who isn't abdicating responsibility for their own choices.

coco ebert: Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.

See above.  I presume you are not in North Korea, and are free to look elsewhere for a better deal.


Cool, so if you know of any positions in NYC that are looking for a server/network admin with 15 years experience, and a focus on Exchange, let me know.
 
2013-05-24 12:02:58 PM  

heili skrimsli: trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.

I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.


You sound not at all bitter
 
2013-05-24 12:03:09 PM  
Currently I work with someone the team has nicknamed "Mama drama" for obvious reasons. She started here as a part timer would fill in for people out sick on vacation etc. From day one she needed all types of special accomodation. Come in late leave early on the phone half the day dealing with baby daddys, courts. Her big issue is she has 6 kids from 2 guys IIRC and 2 sets of twins. She misses about 1 day a week and is late about 2 days. We were shocked they hired her full time, because everyone pretty much gave the evaluation that when she worked she was fine but that was for only about an hour a day.
 
2013-05-24 12:04:52 PM  
My old office had a woman who'd constantly call in late and blame her kid -- one day she said she had to stay home because the kid's school had a two-hour snow delay.

It was 50 degrees.
 
2013-05-24 12:05:40 PM  
I have a solution for all the non-parents. Adopt one of those price of a cup of coffee kids. Put the pictures they send you up in frames. Then use said kid as an excuse to leave early. Problem solved.
 
2013-05-24 12:26:50 PM  

CrazyCracka420: Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).


The vet doesn't think he's overfed.  He's an extremely large cat.

Plus, if we don't give him the food that he wants he bites us while we sleep.
 
Pav
2013-05-24 12:40:20 PM  
This situation gets treated differently at every different work place.  You don't like how your work place operates?  Talk to your boss or find a new job.  What you should not do is show the world how much of a whiney c#nt you can be on the Internet.
 
2013-05-24 12:40:36 PM  
He's extremely large because you let him free range eat (is my guess anyways) and he just keeps eating because he's an animal, and has food in front of him.
 
2013-05-24 12:44:23 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done.


No, but it determines how much you get paid if you are paid hourly. Working X hours and saying you worked X + 2 hours is fraud.

DROxINxTHExWIND: I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.


Then you aren't one of the people that others are complaining about, so STFU.
 
2013-05-24 12:47:57 PM  

umad: DROxINxTHExWIND: As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done.

No, but it determines how much you get paid if you are paid hourly. Working X hours and saying you worked X + 2 hours is fraud.

DROxINxTHExWIND: I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.

Then you aren't one of the people that others are complaining about, so STFU.



Its a Friday before a three day weekend. Relax.
 
2013-05-24 12:49:49 PM  
I declawed my son. Circumcised my dog. Tipped a smoking breastfeeding lady. And am leaving work early to tattoo Atheist on my face. But I will bill for 8 hours.
 
2013-05-24 12:56:05 PM  

JesusJuice: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?


Because they poop in a box and look at you with contempt. DUH. Cats are awesome.
 
2013-05-24 01:09:32 PM  

smokinbuddha: This is a management issue.  A good manager does not allow special treatment for any group of people.

I have had employees say they want to leave for this or that (kids or not).  If it is approved by me they must use vacation or sick time.  This excused time off is put on the shared calendar.

If an employee starts going on and on about the children, I polite say that they are talking about a personal matter and that is not my concern.  My concern is a functioning office and that we should discuss business matters only.

I do not make friends with people that work for me.  This is the only way.  You have to be a dick --- but flexible.  I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying.  So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


Here is the best manager in the thread.
 
2013-05-24 01:25:06 PM  

Pontious Pilates: JesusJuice: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?

Because they poop in a box and look at you with contempt. DUH. Cats are awesome.


i14.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-24 01:34:46 PM  

Albinoman: Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.


OR, tell parents to STFU about things like strip clubs, bars, clubs, etc. that allow/encourage/enable/require behavior that is child unfriendly.

Those things are usually heavily taxed AND frequented by people without kids, ie., the same people who don't use public facilities like pools, parks, etc as often, and the same people who do not get all kinds of tax breaks for having children.

If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.
 
2013-05-24 01:36:39 PM  

smokinbuddha: I do not make friends with people that work for me. This is the only way. You have to be a dick --- but flexible. I am letting everyone go home a half day early and I am staying. So, yea, no baby mama drama in my office.


Flexible dick.  Roger.
 
2013-05-24 01:44:01 PM  

desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.


Who said that was ok?
 
2013-05-24 01:45:33 PM  

trappedspirit: heili skrimsli: trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.

I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.

You sound not at all bitter


Getting fixed was the best thing I ever did for myself.

Also, hooray early weekend. I'm having a beer and some bacon.
 
2013-05-24 01:45:48 PM  

Nidiot: Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.


So let's end welfare while we're at it.
 
2013-05-24 01:46:16 PM  

PunGent: MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.

May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...


The amount of insanely pure butthurt from those without kids is so satisfying.  I love my little time off angels.
 
2013-05-24 01:47:34 PM  

pedrop357: If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.


well, thanks
 
2013-05-24 01:48:07 PM  

lack of warmth: WhippingBoy: lack of warmth: If you are salary, that is your problem.  Hourly means never working unpaid overtime.

Wow, you're an idiot.

Really.  A lot of employers have used salary as a way to rip off employees.  One of my friends went salary doing the same job.  Later he realized he took a $4/hr paycut.  He was working 50 hours a week and lost all that overtime.


Some salaried positions also pay overtime.
 
2013-05-24 01:49:47 PM  

stappawho: Nidiot: Ffs, stop acting like having kids was the ultimate selfless sacrifice you made for the better of society. You just went with the urge to reproduce your own genes. It's not heroic and in need of special work hours and tax breaks (kids are expensive, well so are horses, and bar tabs, and you do't get tax breaks for those). No one else should be required to accommodate what was your personal choice.

So let's end welfare while we're at it.


Two awesome ideas.
 
2013-05-24 01:50:42 PM  

kroonermanblack: Walker: This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.

Why don't you report him then. If its every day and blatant, it should be simple for the manager to watch, or a video camera to observe, etc.


Right.  Perfect case of fruad, waste and abuse.
 
2013-05-24 01:55:56 PM  
This isn't something we have to deal with in the office.

You have annual leave and sick leave.  If you aren't in the office you are using either one.  Not that complicated.
 
2013-05-24 01:56:57 PM  

pedrop357:
If you have kids and take every tax deduction you can, you can think people without kids for picking up some of the slack, and you should leave those people alone when they engage in their heavily taxed vices, because those things help pay for the parks, pools, and schools that you bring your kids to.


Think you!

; )
 
2013-05-24 02:05:17 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.


They were just surprised that you were sticking around.
 
2013-05-24 02:23:01 PM  
I'm on lunch, so CSS time/

I work as part of a shared services team. Recent retirements,new hires and restructuring has changed my job to answering phones in between running the logistics, shipping, and trade show co-ordination of a small EMC company that uses our services (all the companies in the office space are partially owned by one very lovely lawyer/ venture capitalist).  One of the other companies in the office decided that they needed to change their customer service practices and hired the daughter of the president to do this job, taking some of my workload off my desk before I had a nervous breakdown. She's going through a divorce, and has three kids the same age as my three kids. I'm a single mother myself, I have a lot of sympathy for her.  But when I took this job, I decided that I was committed to it. It's a good paying job, it keeps my kids housed, fed, and clothed. I don't have a lot of family help, so my kids have had to sacrifice me and I've had to sacrifice time with them. I like my job now that I'm not supposed to be doing three full time jobs all at once. I'm happier, my kids are responsible most of the time, our lives work.

She's been here six months. In these six months she has been away half the Fridays for God knows what, frequently leaves the office for kid matters, appointments (I always schedule appointments with doctors and dentists on weekends), school things ( her kids are in a charter school), the lawyer she hates, the lawyer she wants to switch to, at her aunt's house to help her move, long lunches with the sales team, illness, family vacations... There are days where I'm back to where I was. I do the job as I did it when it was part of my responsibility list. This makes the CEO of that company pissed, but I cannot spend precious time hand holding everyone, as I have other companies with clients that require hand holding as well, and they also suffer. The Shared services book keeper frequently complains to the CFO and the supremo boss about this woman's hours and sees the stress this can cause. When I'm dealing with one company's customer orders, plus shipping out materials for them, plus shipping orders for the EMC company currently using 60% of my time, plus trying to arrange shipments and pickups half way across the world because the reps are useless, plus dealing with Chinese customs via a freight forwarder who demanded cash payment at the show, and then invoices you on top of that SIX TIMES, plus answering the phones for upwards of 50 various companies, all of them in my head so I know who to pass the call off to, and also filing and filling out my boss' expense report - and you have to run home because your kid is whining they forgot their school issued iPad at home, and it takes you three hours? Fark you. Laws of natural consequence- my kids have forgotten lunches, school supplies, library books, permission slips. I have never run home to get these things for them. They learn after a couple of times to make sure they have all their stuff together.

I use vacation days if I have to spend some time dealing with school stuff. I can use "personal time", but I want to use it for actual emergencies, not because I scheduled a meeting at my youngest's school to discuss her IPP. I'll use a vacation day. It's only fair to my co-workers that I show up and do my job. Because believe me, covering for me when I take a day off- that's a nightmare for all involved. Last day I took off, I ended up doing two hours of work from home because one of our reps screwed up a shipment and I'm the only one who speaks the language of FedEx Global Trade Networks. The marketing director paid me back with a Starbucks gift card, which is better than a day off in my world.

I get it. You have precious snowflakes. So do I. But I know I cannot be supermom if I work full time. Yes, my kids have taken a lot of extra responsibilities, but they are fine. In fact, they seem better prepared for the real world than their friends. Most of the time. They're still kids prone to narcissistic whining about clothes, money and boys, after all.

I just want this woman to be here to do her job so I can actually focus on mine.

/Have been literally forced to take vacation days by my manager. I like my job now, and I sometimes like it more than my teenagers. So sue me.
// Used a vacation day for my eldest daughter's ninth grade grad.
 
2013-05-24 02:26:41 PM  
tl,dr
 
2013-05-24 02:27:23 PM  
The issue here is one of equality.  There is a general tendency of people to get angry when they perceive that they are being treated less well than their peers.  In most places, people treat child related stuff like having to leave for work half an hour late because that's when the school bus arrives than non child related things such as my plan to walk every street in my town.  It's because people are generally wired to protect children and protect the functioning of family units.  It's very easy for people with no kids to feel that management is treating the needs of others as more important than THEIR needs, and that's where a lot of resentment can grow.
 
2013-05-24 02:28:44 PM  

Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.


A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.
 
2013-05-24 02:33:43 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.


I'll leave this here:
jokesfb.com
 
2013-05-24 02:46:32 PM  

Snarfangel: DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.

I'll leave this here:
[jokesfb.com image 600x451]



/+1
 
2013-05-24 02:50:35 PM  

stewmadness: PunGent: MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.

May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...

The amount of insanely pure butthurt from those without kids is so satisfying.  I love my little time off angels.


That's the kind of attitude that fosters workplace shootings.
 
2013-05-24 03:07:23 PM  
What a bunch of pointless biatching (yes i know, welcome to the internet)

The beauty of at-will employment, which we have in all 50 states of the USA, is that you can quit your job at any time for any reason and move on to something better.  If you feel that you deserve better treatment then go get it.

People wallowing around worrying about what other people get jesus what a waste of time.

I don't have kids, but my coworkers do and I don't give 2 shiats when they adjust their schedule to manage them.  I get to adjust my schedule too.  That's because I work at a company that works with us when life happens.

Stop biatching if you're unhappy and go find a job that makes you happy.
 
2013-05-24 03:13:15 PM  

palais: I'm on lunch, so CSS time/

I work as part of a shared services team. Recent retirements,new hires and restructuring has changed my job to answering phones in between running the logistics, shipping, and trade show co-ordination of a small EMC company that uses our services (all the companies in the office space are partially owned by one very lovely lawyer/ venture capitalist).  One of the other companies in the office decided that they needed to change their customer service practices and hired the daughter of the president to do this job, taking some of my workload off my desk before I had a nervous breakdown. She's going through a divorce, and has three kids the same age as my three kids. I'm a single mother myself, I have a lot of sympathy for her.  But when I took this job, I decided that I was committed to it. It's a good paying job, it keeps my kids housed, fed, and clothed. I don't have a lot of family help, so my kids have had to sacrifice me and I've had to sacrifice time with them. I like my job now that I'm not supposed to be doing three full time jobs all at once. I'm happier, my kids are responsible most of the time, our lives work.

She's been here six months. In these six months she has been away half the Fridays for God knows what, frequently leaves the office for kid matters, appointments (I always schedule appointments with doctors and dentists on weekends), school things ( her kids are in a charter school), the lawyer she hates, the lawyer she wants to switch to, at her aunt's house to help her move, long lunches with the sales team, illness, family vacations... There are days where I'm back to where I was. I do the job as I did it when it was part of my responsibility list. This makes the CEO of that company pissed, but I cannot spend precious time hand holding everyone, as I have other companies with clients that require hand holding as well, and they also suffer. The Shared services book keeper frequently complains to the CFO and the supremo ...


So much, this.

"as long as the work gets done" is a perfectly fine mantra when it comes to letting people have some time off. But every place I have worked in my 13-year career, I am pretty much asked to account for (at a minimum) a 45 hour workweek in my project time tracking (I am in software development). So essentially the notion of "so long as the work gets done, people can take personal time for free whenever" only works when people are actually only assigned a workload appropriate to a 40-45 hour work week. When your role, or your group, is consistently firefighting and overloaded, THERE IS NOT ANY FREE TIME and it's possible to work a 16 hour workday every day of the week from now till the end of time.

And in my experience, that's when your boss starts asking you WHY you want to leave early and WHY you want that day off, or whatever. And crotchfruit are always viewed as being a legitimate reason why you need to take time off.

I'm an amateur cyclist and I spend 12-15 hours a week training, and go to a minimum of two races a week, which is like having a second part time job in and of itself. My wife and I have chosen not to have kids, because it doesn't fit with this aspect of my life as well as other choices we've made. But if I tell my boss that I want to actually leave work at 4 today (my office hours are 7:30-4) if there's anything pressing (which there nearly always is) because I want to make it to a group ride or a weeknight race - oh boy, I farked up in a big way by admitting what I wanted to leave for. I have to be deliberately obtuse and act like every one of my "flex work arrangement" instances is a super sensitive personal issue, otherwise I know I will get dissed. At some employers, I have even had to go to some pretty great lengths to hide the fact that I am a cyclist at all, which is actually massively inconvenient.

I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.
 
2013-05-24 03:25:05 PM  

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


You hiring?
 
2013-05-24 03:29:16 PM  

akruse: I'm not saying kids are a legitimate reason to need some flexibility in your work schedule - they most definitely are - I just don't want others making value judgements that things about my personal life are any less important to me.


Very well put.
 
2013-05-24 03:51:53 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Fear the Clam: DROxINxTHExWIND: Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

They were just surprised that you were sticking around.

A bigot in Boston? Unpossible. While you're doing original material tell us one about a watermelon, now.


Okay, why do watermelons have fancy weddings? Because they cantaloupe.
 
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