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(Slate)   Working parents who leave the office early are getting away with an "unfair practice" and are "killing office morale." Well, according to the people without kids who are just pissed they can't leave early   (slate.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, working parent, Emily Yoffe, vacation time  
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6063 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 6:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 09:08:43 AM  
When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder
 
2013-05-24 09:09:34 AM  

bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.


when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.
 
2013-05-24 09:12:08 AM  

Headso: bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.

when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.


Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.
 
2013-05-24 09:14:12 AM  
As someone with a 195 IQ (as determined by MULTIPLE online tests), I find this entire discussion distasteful.
 
2013-05-24 09:17:59 AM  
Totally fine with people getting to leave early to do stuff with/for their kids as long as it's cool that I leave early to go handle shiat in my life.  Sick dog, car in the shop, stuff getting delivered etc.  Thankfully, my company has lots of cool people and this has never been a problem.  Well that and I get to work from home most of the time anyway so it's kinda irrelevant.
 
2013-05-24 09:18:16 AM  

coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.


Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.
 
2013-05-24 09:18:38 AM  

bborchar: Headso: bborchar: The BEST part about daycare is that they charge you for EVERY MINUTE YOU ARE LATE.  Ours was $5 a minute.

when I was a younger I used to work at an afterschool program as those policies were beginning to be instituted, the reason they were was because more and more parents would regularly come late to pick up their kids showing no regard for the staff who might have to go somewhere to pick up their own kids.

Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.


Nope. In fairness to the daycare, some parents are farking unbelievably irresponsible. I guess they figure, the child is in a safe place, so no one will mind if I show up after I finish doing whatever. During football season, some of the parents would drop their 8 year olds off at the beginning of practice and pick them up at the end. I recall one night sitting with a coach and a kid for an hour and a half in the dark waiting for his mother to show up. I stayed so that my son could play with his teammate and keep him occupied. When the mother showed up, her total lack of regard for the situation almost made my head explode. The coach didn't let her have it in front of her son, figuring the little boy was dealing with enough with her as a mother.
 
2013-05-24 09:25:19 AM  
It honestly depends if my co-worker is a douchenozzle or a team player.  If they put in effort around the office, are nice to folks, and let me go fishing when I want then sure.  You can do these kind of things in some places but some folks just can't handle it.  Then you have the alcoholic methheads that call in because they got a parking ticket the day before. YMMV, but my experience has been that young, single folks with baggy eyes are the ones to usually call in.  Them and line cooks lol.

On the other side of the coin, telecommuters and flex timers should not be out fun running or bike joy riding at 8am or 5pm on the roads, because you fark up traffic for us working stiffs.  it is just about being thoughtful, which will earn me yet another welcometofark.jpg.
 
2013-05-24 09:27:01 AM  
I know I can safely discount any neck bearded idiot who uses the word "breeder" in a serious tone. I you're a virgin in your twenties who frequent "Child-Free" message boards whose main posting population consists of crazy cat ladies.
 
2013-05-24 09:35:08 AM  

Walker: This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.


Why don't you report him then. If its every day and blatant, it should be simple for the manager to watch, or a video camera to observe, etc.
 
2013-05-24 09:36:26 AM  

natas6.0: nocturnal001
punctuation, grammer nazi etc. etc. etc.

shaddup you
I was getting on my soap box


Not a grammar Nazi. Just messing with you because of your tone. ;)
 
2013-05-24 09:39:09 AM  

ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


Okay. That's the de facto reality in many cases anyway, so why not put it in writing?
It beats the old way, when women were turned away from whole sectors of the economy because it was expected they would just get married and have kids some day. Or maybe long term childless women were allowed to work, on condition that they received little pay and no real credit for their contributions. Fab.
 
2013-05-24 09:41:47 AM  

REO-Weedwagon: The best Star Wars character is Jar Jar Binks on a bicycle.


I'd argue with you but it's time for my breastfeeding break.

/of course I define breastfeeding as viewing thelocal.se weekend's finest.
 
2013-05-24 09:42:30 AM  
That's definitely one thing I like about my job; it doesn't matter if you're hung over and just want to spend the day watching game shows or you have a kid that's spewing vomit like in the Exorcist. Unscheduled time off is unscheduled time off, and no excuse is any more or less valid than any other.
 
2013-05-24 09:42:58 AM  

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


I love both the fact that you are a boss and that my boss thinks like you. Not only is the work getting done in a professional and effective way, but people are actually happy at work. The mind boggles.
 
2013-05-24 09:43:08 AM  

bborchar: Oh, I know- but some of the people who work overtime and wonder why parents can't do the same (or on holidays or weekends) don't know that the daycares don't give you any leeway anymore.


Oh it's not that they don't know. It's more like they don't care. Saying "I can't work weekends because daycares are not open" is seen as a lame excuse.
 
2013-05-24 09:43:53 AM  
I find it hard to be mad at people who take off work because of issues with their kids because virtually everyone I work with who has kids seems completely miserable. Work is probably like a vacation for them.

Not saying that to be a "kid hater," just an anecdotal observation.
 
2013-05-24 09:47:38 AM  

bborchar: ph0rk: dopekitty74: Until daycares are open 24 hours a day and children are allowed to attend when they're sick, this won't change. Sure they might have to leave early, but it's not like they're doing it to shirk responsibility, it's mainly because child care operates on the faulty theory that everyone works nine to five jobs.

That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.

...you act as if that doesn't already happen.  I was demoted for going on maternity leave, and I did my damn job.


You did your job while on maternity leave? Impressive.
 
2013-05-24 09:49:47 AM  
The same people who take advantage of their co-workers by excessively using their children as an excuse to get out of whatever are the same assholes who would be making excuses to get out of work etc regardless.

It just gives them a more socially acceptable excuse.

Its called work ethic. You either have it or you don't.
 
2013-05-24 09:51:30 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder


I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.
 
2013-05-24 09:53:24 AM  

fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.


Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.
 
2013-05-24 09:59:53 AM  

log_jammin: BarkingUnicorn: This is my solution for cats:

[farm1.static.flickr.com image 396x500]

courtney love 's vagina?


Vagina dentata?
 
2013-05-24 10:00:59 AM  
I volunteer to work between Thanksgiving and Christmas so my cow-orkers can go do stuff with their kids. Those days are cake anyway. But then I feel no remorse for leaving for my own reasons whenever it suits me. Quid Pro Quo. Came in quite handy when dealing with my own little tragedies (got a divorce, dog died of cancer, whatever... no discussion necessary because one hand washes the other).
 
2013-05-24 10:01:10 AM  
TFA: "The point is that children, ... are usually a choice. ... Cutting back on your social life, for example, is an option. Cutting back on obligations that allow you to support a child you chose to have is not."

Dead wrong author. Many people choose careers based on the compatibility of the lifestyle with raising planned children. Some people change careers midstream to better balance work and family once they discover a problem. Skilled workers can often *gasp* find other employment in their field if their current employer makes life unmanageable. Yes, there is a cost to that, but just because you have a professional degree doesn't mean your current employer owns you! The same freedom to move exists for child-free employees who feel taken advantage of by shirking peers and unfair policies, only more so, because their households have less geographical inertia. No, life is not "fair" but really, quit whining.
 
2013-05-24 10:03:14 AM  
How to get special treatment at work:

1. Kids
2. Elderly Parents, Sick Spouse
3. Pregnant

but if you really want the magic trump card you have to have

4. Migraines
 
2013-05-24 10:06:16 AM  

WhippingBoy: fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.

Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.


Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we get paid for results.
 
2013-05-24 10:09:31 AM  
Oh, I'd like to add that I'm typing this from my office computer alone because my entire staff has been given the day off to travel or whatever the hell they do when they're not here. I came in today to cover the office because I don't have out-of-town plans this weekend. There is some give and take.
 
2013-05-24 10:12:47 AM  

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


We must have graduated from the same school...
 
2013-05-24 10:12:55 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: WhippingBoy: fozziewazzi: DROxINxTHExWIND: When my sons mom was pregnant I milked that shiat like a prize winning cow. Everybody loves an attentive new dad...especially the young black guy in the office.

"Awww, you have to go to the doctor with mom to get her a check-up? Take the whole day!"

"Awwww, look at the ultrasound. Sure you can leave early to have his crib delivered!"

"Mom is having really bad morning sickness today? Well, stay home in case you need to get her to the doctor."

Etc.

It was like I was pregnant and it was beautiful. Currently, I leave about 30 minutes early (different job) two days a week to get my son to spring basketball practice. I don't care who doesn't like it.


/Deal with it, non-breeder

I'm absolutely fine with that..as long as when the end of the year comes and it's time to dole out the limited budget for salary actions, bonuses and promotions, the management team remembers who was usually available to come in early, stay late, work weekends and travel on short notice.

Yeah, exactly. I have no problem with people leaving early to take care of their children, as long as they're prepared to suffer the consequences of doing so.

Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we ...


Results sure.  But to achieve results there will be several times during the year where on short notice people will need to come in early or stay late, do overtime, work on weekends and travel.  In every company it's consistently the same few people volunteering. This isn't clock-padding.  At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation.  The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.
 
2013-05-24 10:13:32 AM  

NCg8r: I volunteer to work between Thanksgiving and Christmas so my cow-orkers can go do stuff with their kids. Those days are cake anyway. But then I feel no remorse for leaving for my own reasons whenever it suits me. Quid Pro Quo. Came in quite handy when dealing with my own little tragedies (got a divorce, dog died of cancer, whatever... no discussion necessary because one hand washes the other).


That's good of you to treat your cow-borkers well.
It's not like they chose that lifestyle - she's trim and pretty in the wedding photos.
 
2013-05-24 10:17:36 AM  
You get no sympathy from the working class.  There are no vacations, there are no sick days, there are no lunch or meal breaks, there is no "time off" and you're lucky be able to leave work sometime if something comes up.
 
2013-05-24 10:19:40 AM  
i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-05-24 10:20:21 AM  

fozziewazzi: Results sure.  But to achieve results there will be several times during the year where on short notice people will need to come in early or stay late, do overtime, work on weekends and travel.  In every company it's consistently the same few people volunteering. This isn't clock-padding.  At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation.  The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.



I never mentioned clock-padding. It sounded to me like you were making the argument that an employee is more deserving of a bonus if they work overtime, come in on weekends, or travel to get results than a person who gets results during business hours. Overtime IS a bonus. You're being paid more for working more hours than you normally should. If I can produce the same results without costing the company 10 hours of overtime every pay period, I'd say that I was more deserving.
 
2013-05-24 10:27:13 AM  

Brave: How to get special treatment at work:

1. Kids
2. Elderly Parents, Sick Spouse
3. Pregnant

4. Do your job.

but if you really want the magic trump card you have to have

4. Migraines

5. Do your job and act like you are part of a team.

Ah...fixed that up real nice for you.  You are welcome.
 
2013-05-24 10:29:06 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Consequences? Sounds like hater talk. As its been stated earlier in the thread, the clock does not indicate how much work has been done. When I first started here there was so much turnover in my department that the security guards would joke that it should be against the rules for people in Finance to bring pictures from home because they weren't going to be here long enough to hang them. I developed the entire process that we use to pay vendors and reimburse employees. My department is a machine right now and that didn't happen accidentally. I worked 60 hour weeks for close to a year and a half to get it this way. You're telling me that the Manager of Procurement, whose department is in shambles right now, should get a bigger bonus because he sits in the office until 6? We don't get paid for attendance, we get paid for results.


Well said.
 
2013-05-24 10:36:12 AM  
time to dump some real gas on this troll fire.

I am going to de-claw my cat.

Women love circumcised dicks waaaaayyyyy better.
 
2013-05-24 10:36:16 AM  

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


The fark they do...declawing cats is turrible, I'd never do such a barbaric thing.

Circumcision for cosmetic reasons however, perfectly cool with that.

/not trolling, I understand my double standards
 
2013-05-24 10:38:25 AM  
Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).
 
2013-05-24 10:41:27 AM  

hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.


You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.
 
2013-05-24 10:44:48 AM  

ph0rk: That's fine. Let me get paid more and preferred promotion if I sign a no-kids contract, then, because my career is obviously more important to me than to someone who chose to have kids.


I'm sterilized and childfree. Where do I sign?

fozziewazzi: At the end of the year the people that are going that extra mile to produce results should be rewarded with the limited budget for compensation. The fact that other people could match the effort because they had kids is absolutely irrelevant.


Newsletter?
 
2013-05-24 10:45:31 AM  
It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.
 
2013-05-24 10:46:25 AM  

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


As long as you only feed your cat a vegan diet and don't get it vaccinated.
 
2013-05-24 10:47:56 AM  

trappedspirit: It's called life.  Shiat happens.  If you don't have a life, less shiat happens.


I have a life... because I didn't drop a crib lizard.
 
2013-05-24 10:48:23 AM  

CrazyCracka420: Also Lsherm, if your cat is 18 pounds, you're over feeding it.  12-14 is pretty much as heavy as they need to be (14's on the high end).


Maybe he owns a bobcat.
 
2013-05-24 10:48:41 AM  

BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.



Yes, MOST. However, the owner of my company will make us work to 5 PM on Christmas Eve, because "You work for me!"

For example, today, start of the long weekend.  99% of our clients will leave at 2-3.  I can fully work from home no problem.  The owner of the company, who comes in about 4 times a month, will show up today, at 2.  To make sure we all stay until 5.

Yeah, I am looking for a new gig, and my manager knows.
 
2013-05-24 10:55:44 AM  

BMFPitt: coco ebert: I've worked on holidays and over weekends so parents can spend time with their children, in the interest of equity and to be a good co-worker. But I've also had colleagues argue that they should get every Christmas off "because I have children."

Uhh, maybe instead of fighting amongst one another about who should get well-deserved time off, we should instead demand that time off for everyone.

Didn't RTFA, but most places where people are working on Christmas are open for a good reason.


Yeah, I was going to put in a caveat there that there are jobs that require working over Christmas. However, those should be mandated for overtime like they are in other countries. You shouldn't have to work Xmas just because your asshole boss demands that you do so.
 
2013-05-24 10:59:19 AM  

Loren: hubiestubert: The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. And you make sure that the personal time is well distributed. I encourage "well" days as well as sick days. So long as everyone knows that a shift needs covered, and folks are willing to do it, and that means that sometimes I step in and do the shift on top of my own, because I know that folks will cover for me too.

You're looking at only half the issue.  The reality is that parents have a much greater need of personal time than non-parents.  This normally ends up being unfair to the non-parents and they quite rightly resent it.


In that case, you are looking at folks who aren't parents who are putting the job before their own damn lives. That's something I openly discourage. You don't live to work. Someone JUST has a job and no other outside hobbies, or activities, or friends, that's a red flag. It's a red flag because it leads to bad mojo and becoming far too invested in the work environment, and that is not a healthy thing.

Working parents don't need more personal time--at least not unless you are looking at squeezing folks for 14 hour days consistently. It's about proper planning and proper structures in place. I've used the same sous chef for years, in several places, and she has a family. She has a life. She has been my partner in four separate kitchens, and I've babysat her kids, so that she can get some time outside of the damn kitchen, and away from the kids, to get some down time. She doesn't need more down time because she's a parent, she needs down time because she's human. We all need time away. It helps ground us. It helps us decompress. It gets you in the right mind set to do the work.

What family does is sometimes throw us curveballs, that don't fit schedules. Be that blood relations, or our chosen family. I've sat with cooks who were trying quit a damn ugly habit, and I really hate junkies, but I've held that damn bucket, because they were my people. That was as much a "familial obligation" than anyone that was related to me by blood or by marriage. I got them the leave, I juggled schedules, because it was necessary. Because they mattered.

The question is balance. The question isn't "more" or "less" but understanding that folks shouldn't ever be the job. Yes, I'm a chef. I'm also a father. A friend. An occasional writer. A biker. I spend a fair amount of time at the gym. The chef part doesn't define everything, and if you are only thinking about the job as part of your personal descriptor, then maybe it's time to take a step back.

The job is there. It gets done. You do that with a team. You take care of the team, the job gets done, if you've done your part as a manager. You fill positions with folks you trust to get the work done, and you take care of folks to make that happen. It's not just about hitting numbers, but about making sure that the team is healthy. That they are fulfilled. That YOU are fulfilled in doing it as well. You have to juggle a lot to make that happen, even in the most well run of places, because you are balancing a lot of folks' lives, and folks don't always have lives that fit schedules. Life throws curves, and if you prepare well enough, then you've got structures in place to catch them, and bring the whole shebang back into focus.

If you are only worried about numbers, then I hate to see what your team looks like, because that means that as a manager, you're missing a fairly big part of the picture. EVERYONE needs down time. EVERYONE needs to take five every now and then. A good manager isn't just about managing resources and materials, but managing people and making sure that all the parts are in fit and working order. Human resources is a cold term, but that's what you do. You manage folks, to steer them where they need to be, to get the job done, and just as much as your physical plant needs maintenance, your crew needs it as well. You keep everyone healthy, you keep them grounded, you are taking care of the job and the team. It's just as important as making sure that there is toner in the copier and paper in printer. More so. If you are only worried about raw numbers, you're missing what a manger's job really is about.
 
2013-05-24 11:01:28 AM  

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


May I interest you in a virtual child?

All the benefits, none of the pooping or wrapping your car around a telephone pole...
 
2013-05-24 11:05:27 AM  

Mr. Chainsaw: I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.


That's legit...but there's PLENTY of parents who abuse the privilege.  Take a full day off for a ten minute doctor appointment, that kind of BS.
 
2013-05-24 11:07:47 AM  

Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.


That cat didn't need de-clawing, it needed euthanasia.

Why the fark would anyone want to own a pet that tries to kill you?
 
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