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(Slate)   Working parents who leave the office early are getting away with an "unfair practice" and are "killing office morale." Well, according to the people without kids who are just pissed they can't leave early   (slate.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, working parent, Emily Yoffe, vacation time  
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6060 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 May 2013 at 6:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-24 06:50:02 AM
From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.
 
2013-05-24 06:51:19 AM
You're not entitled to a goddamned thing that's not in your employment contract.

Similarly, if you're single and want off early, ask your boss to alter your schedule.  That's generally how the people with kids got it.  Since you don't have to drop any kids off either, you can probably even talk them into letting you come in early and still book the same hours, which isn't an option for the people with kids.

MmmmBacon: Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

Just so you know, ball games and recitals are, in fact, scheduled months in advance, and that's probably when the people in question put in their time off request.  I know my father was never able to show up to anything that wasn't on his scheduled day off (Tuesday, try fitting that into a weekend-centric school/club schedule) unless we gave him the date with like three months of notice.

Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.
 
2013-05-24 06:53:27 AM

BgJonson79: gopher321: Got promoted last year to a job where my boss says, "As long as the work gets done, your time is your own.". Works great. But of course the work load is greater than before so I can't be f*cking off anywhere/leaving early and all that. I console myself with the fact that my company recognizes the fact that people with kids and other reasons that detract from getting the job done aren't hired for my position in the first place, and I have a greater chance of promotion than they do to an even better job.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work?


It is, but that bolded part doesn't actually happen anymore, if it ever did.  Promotions are based on nepotism, everybody knows that.  Either that or a lot of folks I know who seem to be pretty damn good workers are secretly really, really bad.
 
2013-05-24 06:53:44 AM
When I was a young, childless associate, I used to feel that way.  Now I'm a partner with 2 kids and a lot of early evening practices and meetings that I need to be at.  The good thing about being an attorney (at least in private practice) is that at the end of the year, they have a convenient little tool called the billable hour to show how hard you have worked... so when you leave the office at 4:30pm, but work on briefs and reports from 8pm until 3am, its all accounted for.  Considering I'm consistently 300 to 500 hours over what any of those young associates are working in a year, I generally feel that if they put all the time into work that they put into gossiping and biatching, they'd probably be as productive as this guy with two kids.

/ Now you want to talk about time wasters - those a-holes with their fantasy football leagues need to be stopped.
 
2013-05-24 06:54:30 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


people with children participate in a future that they wont see
people with no children participatie in a future that they dont care about
 
2013-05-24 06:55:31 AM

Shostie: pizen: xlbrooklyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

You got yourself started.  But please don't let me stop you.  I enjoy a good anti-smoker rant.

With a smoker argument in a parenting thread all we need now is someone complaining about people taking time off to either have, or continue to not have, a circumcision.

I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.


Ha. If we can resolve those topics then the internet can be ended.

OT. Things should be fair both ways, whether you are going home to your kids or your half dead chia pet and level 50 orc druid.

This cuts both ways though in reality. I may have more times now that I need to leave work for the kid but I am also not hungover every morning anymore. Fair trade I would say.
 
2013-05-24 06:56:15 AM
Justifiably pissed off.

Either let everyone leave early, or take it out of their payed leave.  The end.
 
2013-05-24 06:56:50 AM

Emposter: payed


Paid.  Blargh.
 
2013-05-24 06:57:44 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday there will be a thread where a Florida parent takes an extra smoke break before leaving work early - driving 54 in the left lane of a 55 zone -- to get to the airport laden with massive carry-on bags pausing only to stop at Starbucks and change the baby's diaper on a table then leave without tipping before boarding the flight to go pick up their freshly-declawed cat and refusing to hang up their cell phone complaining about the baby screaming so loud the parent can't enjoy ESPN's "Why is Tim Tebow being unfairly blackballed" on their iPad. Plus Benghazi.


Somewhere in there they also need to get on their bicycle, ride in the middle of the street and ignore all traffic laws. And something about kim Kardashian
 
2013-05-24 06:57:46 AM
No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.
 
2013-05-24 07:02:19 AM
I always make up leaving work early for the kids by coming in late the next morning.
 
2013-05-24 07:03:55 AM
If I need time off for kid stuff, I either take PTO or adjust my schedule. Anyone can do this.

Maybe it is people who gossip and complain without knowing all the facts that kill office morale.
 
2013-05-24 07:04:56 AM

OregonVet: I once left work early to go make a babby. I went to another manager (happened to be the HR) and said, "Hey Ang, I'm leaving early (like 3 PM), MrsOV is ovulating."
"Well, alrightie then."
/csb


A better response would've been "Yeah, I know."
 
2013-05-24 07:05:16 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


Love this bigotry.  And no mention of all the same sex couples with children who could pull the kid card, either.  Good jorb.
 
2013-05-24 07:05:29 AM
Penis. That is all.
 
2013-05-24 07:06:21 AM

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.


Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.
 
2013-05-24 07:07:16 AM
How about pushing for the 40 hour work week to be enforced? Granted that would take getting rid of all exemptions to overtime, but that's hardly a downside. Also how about pushing for some more time off?
 
2013-05-24 07:08:11 AM
Life isnt fair biatch....its not the 3rd grade anymore. Grow the fark up.
 
2013-05-24 07:08:41 AM
Emposter: Justifiably pissed off.

Either let everyone leave early, or take it out of their  payedpaved leaves.  The end.

/fixed
 
2013-05-24 07:11:20 AM

MmmmBacon: Breeders get special rights that non-Breeders do not, it is simple fact. My co-workers with children can call off with impunity "because their child is sick", but if I call off, Management considers that 'unprotected ill time'. Breeder wants time off to see Little Jimmy's ball game, or Little Jane's recital? No problem. I want time off to do something? Better put in for it months in advance, before one of the Breeders requests that day off, or a denial will come.

It is absolute BS.


That's because they do the most selfless and important job in the world. Nothing related to their precious snowflakes should ever require them to actually use PTO, because these saints are sacrificing everything to unselfishly care for the continuation of the human species.

The last project I was on, the breeders would come in late and leave early every day. Expected business hours were 8 to 5. They would show up around 9:30 and leave at 4, and this happened every day. We had one who, if her kid was sick and couldn't go to daycare, she'd bring the girl to the office. When one of them got angry that I declined his invite to an 8 pm meeting, he told me 'It's not like you have kids.'

The last straw was when the project manager told me he assumed I wouldn't mind working the week between Christmas and New Year's, when the office is officially closed, because other people have families. I told him having children isn't the only definition of family and went over his head to leave the project. The project I'm on now has not had a similar problem.
 
2013-05-24 07:15:42 AM
I work with someone who used the "I have small kids" card to get out of working all of the Saturdays we are open each year (approx. 8 days). When she requested off this upcoming Saturday, our director reminded her that she had taken some time off the previous week to watch her youngest daughter graduate high school; therefore, the "I have small kids " card was no longer in play. My coworker was flabbergasted.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:17 AM

bborchar: From my experience, this almost never is about people leaving early, it's about them leaving ON TIME instead of spending every waking moment at the office. The only time people left was when their kids were sick or something was wrong. If they didn't take vacation time, they made it up by working at home or coming in early. My experience is that people are resentful because they think everyone should live at the office like they do. I always left on time everyday (without kids) and some people made comments that they always stayed late. My job wasn't my life, and I wasn't going to make it my life.


This.

Sadly most companies and their management are too incompetent to measure worker output so instead they just look at who is at their desk.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:22 AM
I'm single and don't have any kids, but I have no problem when parents take time off to be with their kids. They have to use leave regardless of whether it's planned in advance or not, so who cares. I'm not really jealous if someone has to go home early because their kid is puking all over the place or something.
 
2013-05-24 07:19:29 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.


Maybe there should be a push for a 6 hour work day not 8.  Also 8 weeks annual leave at half pay or 4 weeks for Americans as I believe they only get 2 at the moment.

This would lead to less tired employees and increased production.
More time for parents to spend with children:
More people being employed
More money earned in recreational industries since people have more time to spend in them.
Children spending less time in paid childcare.
 
2013-05-24 07:20:17 AM

mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

No one questions why we no longer live in a country where most families can get by with only one parent working.


I ended up having to quit my job three months after I returned from maternity leave because I missed a lot of time because I was unexplainably sick (and my daughter was born with a birth defect needing surgery at one month old with a subsequent infection). Finally, I quit my job because the HR manager was harassing me about missing too much time (after working there for four years and never missing any). My boss was incredibly nice and let me leave when he saw me throwing up constantly. One day after I quit, I was taken to the ER and ended up in ICU for a week because my doctor had completely missed my diagnosis the 4 times I went to him. I had grave's and Addison's disease, and I probably would have been dead of a stroke in another day or two.

My boss made sure I was paid another month's salary after I quit and waived off the extra vacation time I has spent without earning. The HR manager was fired not long after that. Sometimes people just don't understand what is really happening when they get mad about what other people are doing.
 
2013-05-24 07:21:05 AM
If you're annoyed that patents get extra breaks, do what I do: tell the boss you know these people get half days off, and you want one, too, because your work is done and you've got stuff to do.

Or you can be passive-aggressive and whine about not getting what you don't have the balls to ask for.
 
2013-05-24 07:21:39 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


Thank God you're not my boss.
 
2013-05-24 07:23:31 AM
laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender
 
2013-05-24 07:24:35 AM
I don't see why "I have small kids" is a valid excuse fro special treatment. That was your choice to have children, I didn't ask you to, in fact I'd rather you didn't as the the world is overpopulated as it is. Your choice, your problem. No I don't think you having children is somehow making the future better for me, even though people with children seem to insist it does.
 
2013-05-24 07:25:58 AM
Yeesh, just be a college professor. I make my own hours for the most part and nobody says "boo." And it only took 8 extra years of school!
 
2013-05-24 07:26:49 AM

Jim_Callahan: mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.


OK, Mister Grown-up-who-also-resorts-to-using-numbnuts-as-an-insult, I will do that.
 
2013-05-24 07:27:42 AM
The best Star Wars character is Jar Jar Binks on a bicycle.
 
2013-05-24 07:29:01 AM
This guy I work with leaves at 2pm every day so he can go pick up his kids. I have to stay till 5 and have to cover his work when he leaves every day, so yeah, you know where I stand on this BS.  Oh, and every week he puts 45-50 hours on his timesheet when in reality he only works 30-35. So he makes more money than me too thanks to all his overtime that he never worked. So yeah, I stick pins in a voodoo doll I made of him.
 
2013-05-24 07:29:02 AM
Why not equal pay for equal work? If two people spend the same time and effort in the same occupation, and accomplish equal amounts of work, they get paid the same. If one person asks for benefits the other does not, that causes a pay adjustment.

/now, where is my popcorn?
 
2013-05-24 07:29:21 AM

hubiestubert: When I manage a place, I get all sorts of reasons to leave early. From band practice, to kids' recital, to gallery opening, to concerts, parents coming into town, dates, movers coming, and you know what? I work with folks to make sure the shift is covered, and so long as everything is taken care of, and folks are good with covering for them, drive on. Kids? Yup, it's a good reason. Kids are sick? Good reason. Parent is sick and you want to check on them? Good reason. If you are such a selfish human that you can't understand that sometimes folks have other things going on their life than a deadline or a bunch of file work, or even in my business which is sort of dependent upon having enough skilled folks on a line to take care of things, then maybe you need to work for yourself and take others out of the picture. Or you can man the f*ck up and stop seeing others getting things that you aren't getting like a f*cking four year old, you whining little Sally.

Personal time. Folks sometimes need it. For a variety of reasons. Be that because they've got a bike run that they really want to get to. Or a concert. Or maybe they need to pick up some medicine on the way home and need to get out before the pharmacy closes. Or they need to get to the gottverdammt ICU because someone just admitted that they care about. So long as you have some lead time, you can prepare for it. So long as the work is covered, and the folks who you are covering for return the favor, drive on. When childcare is an issue, I try to work with folks. Because that's what you do. You do it, because you hope like Hells that they'll do the same for you. Or even when you want to duck work and meet some friends who are blowing into town early.

The important thing is: is the work getting done? Not a mark on the clock, but is the work getting done? If someone isn't pulling their weight and needs more time, then you need to reassess their workload. If folks need a regular early day out, then you prepare for it. ...


THIS. As long as I had my work done, I could tell my boss I was taking the next day off to drink beer and play videogames, and they would say "have fun."
 
2013-05-24 07:32:04 AM

Lsherm: BarkingUnicorn: Lsherm: Shostie: I'm thinking about getting my cat declawed. That cool with everyone? I mean, she's an indoor-outdoor cat, but I don't want her f*cking up my furniture.

For 20+ years of my marriage my wife and I didn't believe in declawing cats, and then we ended up with one that put me in the hospital because he took so much skin off my forearm we couldn't stop the bleeding.  Our vet, who also doesn't believe in declawing cats, recommended declawing him.  So we did.

Sometimes, you have to.  He had already destroyed the furniture, so we weren't worried about that.  Some cats just need it.

Have you seen these Cat Claw Sheaths?

We did those.  We also looked into snipping the tendons.

The sheaths work for a limited time and only if the cat doesn't bite them off.  They come off naturally since the nails grow and shed the outer shell on their own.  However, you have to hold an 18 pound cat that is already prone to biting and scratching once a month to put them on.  If you consider that a solution, you're a better man/woman than I am.  It took two of us three days to get just his front claws covered, and we lost more blood because of it, not less.

That's a good solution for a cat that scratches furniture, but is otherwise calm.  It is not a good solution for a cat that is hell-bent on attacking you, because he's going to attack you every time you need to put those caps on.

It all worked out.  He's an indoor cat, he's still active four years on, but he can't do the damage he did with claws.  He lives with two female cats who weigh at least 8 pounds less than him, and he's still managed to wound them enough to get stitches even though they have their claws.  It's nice to think that cats shouldn't be declawed, and I still believe that, but there are exceptions to the rule.  He's one of them.


I took time off to watch my kids declaw the cat. A valuable life lesson that we've all learned from.
 
2013-05-24 07:32:52 AM

Jim_Callahan: mat catastrophe: No one bothers to ask why we still cling to a stupid concept like the 40-hour week.

Because that's the legal standard for full-time work without overtime, numbnuts.  If you're questioning why that's the legal standard for full-time with no overtime then I suggest you stay off the grown-up internet for a while, you'll understand adult topics like basic US history and the gilded age once you've finished fourth grade or so.  Until then, you need to have a discussion with your parents about where it's appropriate for a six-year-old to surf.


Wow...a douchebag of your magnitude could clean a whale's vagina.

//legal standards change, @ss.
 
2013-05-24 07:35:18 AM

natas6.0: laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender


So do you feel that punctuation and grammar are scams too?
 
2013-05-24 07:36:30 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.


Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.
 
2013-05-24 07:37:49 AM
Adolf Oliver Nipples:
You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

Dude, that's what keeps sites like this alive: people stuck in front of a computer and not allowed to masturbate.

Anyway, people who choose not to have children are being pretty selfish, don't you think?  So I don't see why they should get special rights to take time off work for no reason.  If I can't leave at 3:30 to take my child to Suzuki violin, where will the next generation of violin players come from?
 
2013-05-24 07:39:21 AM
I want my foreskin back.
 
2013-05-24 07:40:37 AM
Becoming a parent is like a master class in time management. So don't get your panties in a wad just because I'm able to get everything done by 5:00pm.
 
2013-05-24 07:42:26 AM

Jim_Callahan: Not that there aren't douche bosses that have favorite employees that get more leeway, but 99% of the time the policies are identical for everyone (with the exception of actual maternity leave) and you're just not actually asking for things in the right way or on the right schedule.  Try for some minimal people skills, man.


I have people skills. What I lack is a child that gets me a free pass on taking time off whenever I feel like it, because "the kid is sick" or "they have a game". And perhaps they schedule things out months in advance at your job, but at mine it more often is scheduled only days in advance. And it's great to be at work reading Facebook posts from said Breeder about being at the beach when they are supposed to be home with their sick kid, or attending their tee-ball game.

Like I said, it's complete BS. Breeders get preferential treatment over people who either choose not to have kids or are incapable of doing so. My wife and I are the latter.
 
2013-05-24 07:43:42 AM

Guest: Adolf Oliver Nipples: You know what kills office morale? Being in the office. Nothing like "working" an 8-hour day when the work could be accomplished in 5, forcing you to either spread it out or twiddle your thumbs and piss away a few hours of your life every day.

If they paid you for, I don't know, work performed, and stopped worrying about the clock so much, it would make things a lot better.

Anyway, since they don't do that, I realized a long time ago that what other people do doesn't really affect what I have to do. What, they're doing less than you think they should or they're making more for fewer hours? Them's the breaks. Worry about yourself.

Maybe there should be a push for a 6 hour work day not 8.  Also 8 weeks annual leave at half pay or 4 weeks for Americans as I believe they only get 2 at the moment.

This would lead to less tired employees and increased production.
More time for parents to spend with children:
More people being employed
More money earned in recreational industries since people have more time to spend in them.
Children spending less time in paid childcare.


This makes too much sense.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:24 AM

natas6.0: laughing at people with the 19 year parasite
I work for the evil empire
whatever those who weren't smart enough to use a condom can do
so can I
and I will call them on their bullshiat.
You gotta leave early to get yer crotchfruit at school?
I'll get the school to fax a schedule of when the kids are let out..
so sorry I ruined your scam on the rest of us
If everyone is equal, and the rules say discrimination is illegal
then the empire will always bend over so I can get time off
my dogs miss me, and so does my bartender


Hmm. Asking a school to fax the children's school schedule is not creepy at all.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:25 AM
Your mamma is a breeder.
 
2013-05-24 07:44:56 AM
Shall we move on to how tax breaks for children is a bit unfair? "Kids are expensive" is the usual reason they think theyre entitled to everyone else's money.
 
2013-05-24 07:46:06 AM

desertfool: ecmoRandomNumbers: Don't even get me started on smokers and their breaks.

Yep, my 3 10-minute smoke breaks per day really ruin things. But my co-worker taking a two-hour lunch so he can run and swim, and coming in late/leaving early because he bikes to work is just fine.


Assuming your employer pays for your health care, chances are your co-worker will end up costing your company much less in the long run.
 
2013-05-24 07:47:14 AM
nocturnal001
punctuation, grammer nazi etc. etc. etc.

shaddup you
I was getting on my soap box
 
2013-05-24 07:48:16 AM
Is working from home
getting a kick, etc
 
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