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(USA Today)   Polite young men who wear neckerchiefs, colorful badges and khaki shorts in public are now allowed to be openly gay   (usatoday.com) divider line 59
    More: News, batty boys, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, badges, grape vine  
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7712 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 May 2013 at 7:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-23 07:33:59 PM
5 votes:
FTFA:
Austin Ruse, president of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute in Washington, D.C., said the shift "would utterly change Scouting and dramatically reduce their ranks. The Catholic and Mormon groups would simply have to walk away."

And another group of bigots with "Family" in their name. Good for the Scouts; it's about damn time.
2013-05-23 07:30:04 PM
4 votes:
Just about everyone who stayed in scouts past junior high was gay anyway.
2013-05-23 08:39:14 PM
3 votes:
The historic vote, with 60% in favor, signals another shift in American public opinion about homosexuality but still leaves the organization with many future hurdles.

The hurdles get smaller to the future.

a.imageshack.us


Kisses, gang.
ib2.huluim.com
2013-05-23 07:52:49 PM
3 votes:

WordyGrrl: This is excellent news! Gay kids have a tough enough time growing up, having to face abuse from bigots and homophobes (not to mention the parents who sometimes disown them). This kind of peer support can go a long way in making sure they grow up to be decent, well-adjusted human beings.


The times they are a'changing.  Hell even when I was a kid in the not so long ago 1980s, people weren't openly gay for the most part.  Now they are, and that's what's driving this.  I'm not gay, but I know gay people.  Beloved family of mine and my wife's happen to be gay.  I'm not alone in that.  When you put a face to it, it takes it from being an abstract concept "Should gays have equal rights?"  into something a lot more personal "Should my uncle, aunt, sister, brother, etc. who happens to be gay have the same rights that I do?"  That, I believe, is what's truly behind this social shift, and I applaud any advances toward full equality, however small the boy scout thing may seem to be.
2013-05-23 07:36:21 PM
3 votes:
That's super!!!
southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
2013-05-23 10:30:16 PM
2 votes:

Lor M. Ipsum: FreetardoRivera: Just about everyone who stayed in scouts past junior high was gay anyway.

I had some friends in high school who used boy scouts as an excuse to go camping, get drunk, and smoke some pot in the woods.  Doesn't sound like the worse way to spend a weekend in high school.


Yup. I got my Eagle Scout award when I was 13. At 15, I went to the world scout jamboree in Holland where we smoked alot of pot. We spent a week in London first where we drank alot of booze. Sneaking weed and alcohol on camping trips was common.

I stayed active in scouts throughout high school. I got to go to the previously mentioned world jamboree, national jamboree, two trips to the Chalres Sumner Canoe base and three trips to Philmont. I also got involved with adventure scouts because well... girls!!!
2013-05-23 08:57:26 PM
2 votes:

max_pooper: I'm glad the BSA has opened the door to gays. The next step will be to drop the ban on gay adult leaders which will happen eventually. The old bullshiat prejudice that gay=pedophile is just not prevalent with younger generations.

\Eagle Scout


That and they pretty much lost the moral high ground regarding pedophilia after this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-scouts-molest-story,0,313001 6. htmlstory
2013-05-23 08:51:09 PM
2 votes:

Infobahn: Way to half-ass it BSA.


Pretty much this. And extra bullshiat points for saying something as stupid as:

The Boy Scouts of America will not sacrifice its mission, or the youth served by the movement, by allowing the organization to be consumed by a single, divisive, and unresolved societal issue

Nah. It was resolved. Homophobes are cretins. It was decided a while back. Sorry you missed the memo.
2013-05-23 08:13:19 PM
2 votes:

p51d007: Congrats for destroying another institution of American culture.
Might as well get rid of the Boy Scout oath while you are at it.

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

How the hell can you do your duty to God, and be morally straight, if they accept
homosexuals?


Which god ?  and morally straight means being a good person, it has nothing to do with sexuallity
2013-05-23 08:12:48 PM
2 votes:
It's a good start.  Now let's make sure atheists won't be kicked out, too.

/So glad that the Girl Scouts don't give a damn about your sexuality or faith.
2013-05-23 08:07:55 PM
2 votes:

brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.


It's more about the 17-year-olds who were getting thrown out.
2013-05-23 07:51:56 PM
2 votes:
As an Eagle Scout, I'm getting a kick...

Its just a matter of time before the gay youth are allowed to be gay adults. How can they allow a kid to become the pinnacle of what the BSA stands for and then say "good job, get out"?
2013-05-23 07:47:34 PM
2 votes:
This is excellent news! Gay kids have a tough enough time growing up, having to face abuse from bigots and homophobes (not to mention the parents who sometimes disown them). This kind of peer support can go a long way in making sure they grow up to be decent, well-adjusted human beings.
2013-05-23 07:43:39 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.


Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.
2013-05-23 07:42:12 PM
2 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: They're still a group of bigots. They still say you can't be moral if you're non-religious.

Also, they still say gays aren't suitable to be scout leaders and volunteers --  basically, they're accepting gays into the ranks while telling them how awful they will be as adults.


This is first step in the right direction
2013-05-23 07:40:21 PM
2 votes:
I'm still confused as to why we care about the sexual orientation of 12-18 year-old boys.

If it's sexual conduct within the troop, well, BSA already runs a program that includes girls (Venturers), so model the general policy after whatever is there.

/Why was this hard?
2013-05-23 07:38:52 PM
2 votes:
Okay for scouts but not scout leaders? Does this mean they're treating it like a mental disease?
2013-05-23 07:35:05 PM
2 votes:

FormlessOne: About friggin' time.


So very true but I sorta can't believe it actually happened.
/Wow.
2013-05-23 07:33:37 PM
2 votes:
It was done out of politics as opposed to any change of heart, but if it helps people it's worth it.
2013-05-23 07:32:33 PM
2 votes:
About friggin' time.
2013-05-23 07:06:37 PM
2 votes:
This one.  Well played.  Honestly, did not expect that, it's a private organization after all so it's entirely their business, but it's good to see some acceptance.
2013-05-24 12:53:13 AM
1 votes:

Baloo Uriza: wildsnowllama: brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.

Scouts are up to 18 aren't they?

21 in some divisions (Sea Scout ships, whatever Air Scout wings might still be lingering after Homeland Security pretty much killed it, Explorer posts, troop venture crews).


Just for general information:

Explorer posts have traditionally had higher top and bottom age limits (currently running from about 14 to 21, the bottom age was generally around 16 when I was active in the 80s and 90s) than main line Scout Troops, and were already co-ed at the time.  The Venture crew concept was getting kicked around *again* at that time... it was originally pitched as an organized sports based unit that kind of downplayed traditional scout skills to get a better foothold in urban areas.  Since I left, Explorers pretty much became a Vocational/Tech focused program, with all the advanced skills and High Adventure (a lot of which require higher minimum ages - everything from firearms to SCUBA to rappelling and whitewater rafting) getting placed in a repurposed co-ed Venture program.

Since the molestation shenanigans in the 80s, the National Headquarters developed some fairly comprehensive (if more than occasionally comical) youth protection guidelines - such as Two Deep Adult Leadership, which is taught generally at the District level (roughly county based, but with all things, YMMV).  As a side note, the same course is given to all summer camp staff annually.

I really don't see what all the hand wringing was about.  When I was a camp counselor, there were at least three guys on staff that were gay, and not a fark was given.  In terms of youth protection, take a cue from Canadian Scouting (where mainline troops have been co-ed forever) if you really need to fill gaps in your troop guidelines.  With the higher ages of youth participation, and the semi-detached nature of the Venture and Explorer system, I'll lay money that openly gay adult leaders will first be allowed there.  It should have happened years ago... the question was a big enough discussion that it came up at my Eagle murder board back in '94.
2013-05-24 12:33:33 AM
1 votes:

Baloo Uriza: Mrtraveler01: The Boy Scouts are a fairly conservatively run organization but I guess even they saw the writing on the wall and realized how stupid it was to keep people out of what is otherwise a decent organization just because they're gay.

More like it got forced to a poll of regional council and district executives, and it turns out most of the locals don't give a shiat and couldn't figure out what the boys in Irving were smoking on.


Not just council and district folks...  I was just a long time assistant scoutmaster, never in any district or council positions whatsoever. About six months ago I received a survey about this very issue.  "Would I be OK with admitting gay youth to Scouting", "Would I be OK with scout leaders being gay", etc.  I replied that I thought highly of Scouting as a concept, but that they had to either change their position on the matter or soon risk become irrelevant.
2013-05-23 11:55:11 PM
1 votes:

NaziKamikaze: You don't know BS history if you think they just recently took over.  Two things - it started as a military and religious prep organization.


More the former, less the latter.  The reverence and duty to god bit is kind of a throwback to the early 1900s when organized religion in general was in vogue on this continent.  Anybody that's been in Scouts and is still alive can tell you the Scouting program doesn't really lean on religion that hard.  The converse isn't always true, the Mormons like to use Scouting as a crutch for not really having their own confirmation program for boys totally fleshed out...
2013-05-23 11:08:00 PM
1 votes:

Mock26: Not good enough.  They try to do the right thing and they still fail.


But they've started the race.  The finish line is not yet crossed, but it will happen.  At most a generation, probably much less time.

/Change scares them
//Baby steps
2013-05-23 11:05:36 PM
1 votes:

DarwiOdrade: Maybe those religious types will pull out before donating their load....of cash.


And if they want to do that, then all I have to say is, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."  Enough people see the value in Scouting a lot of sponsors that left in the 90's would be happy to come back now that the Scouts are wading into the 21st century.
2013-05-23 10:55:15 PM
1 votes:

max_pooper: Bullshiat


Yeah. All that litigation over the years was completely fiction. I created the two Wiki articles on the federal laws expressly protecting the BSA just to mess with your head. You caught me.
2013-05-23 10:43:55 PM
1 votes:

max_pooper: Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.


Nice and all, but we were talking about exclusive access. Special rights, not equal rights, that sort of thing.

Other groups can't apply for and use military bases for camp-outs. The Boy Scouts in many parts of the country did/do get special access to schools for recruiting purposes, or were permitted to use the schools as meeting places when other groups weren't allowed to do the same under the same terms/conditions.

Lots of cities and states limit use of public buildings and other facilities to groups that don't discriminate. Federal laws enacted through the Dept. of Education, DOD, and HUD make it illegal to limit BSA's use of public assets for those reasons. One prejudicial group can't use the building -- another (the BSA) can.

Special rights.
2013-05-23 10:20:54 PM
1 votes:

FreetardoRivera: Just about everyone who stayed in scouts past junior high was gay anyway.


I had some friends in high school who used boy scouts as an excuse to go camping, get drunk, and smoke some pot in the woods.  Doesn't sound like the worse way to spend a weekend in high school.
2013-05-23 09:54:26 PM
1 votes:

wildsnowllama: brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.

Scouts are up to 18 aren't they?


Yup. Had my Eagle board of review on my 18th Birthday. Project hit a few obstacles and kept getting delayed, but I wanted to finish and was essentially a junior assistant scoutmaster (which is usually what eagles who want to stay involved do) in all but name the last few years, so it stayed interesting.

Also, as an Eagle, about farking time they made some progress. Now let's get this stupid gay people= pedophiles thing out of the organization's collective head and go all the way.

Oh, and subby, the shorts are olive, not khaki. Only the shirts are khaki. And neckerchiefs are a troop by troop thing. Apart from the national jamboree and rare special occasions, I never wore one.
2013-05-23 09:50:43 PM
1 votes:
In a world where you can get your head cut off on a public street by an fundie, where you stick your penis should be of a low concern.

/Eagle Scout
2013-05-23 09:19:37 PM
1 votes:

Flragnararch: I'm not the only one that thinks that this isn't about equality but about sponsorship money yes?


I really think they're trying to cover their ass after they covered up decades of sexual abuse by Scoutmasters.

One of the main reasons they didn't want gays in the scouts according to them was to protect them from pedophiles but when that story leaked by the LA Times, that talking point went up in smoke.
2013-05-23 08:48:54 PM
1 votes:
I'm glad the BSA has opened the door to gays. The next step will be to drop the ban on gay adult leaders which will happen eventually. The old bullshiat prejudice that gay=pedophile is just not prevalent with younger generations.

\Eagle Scout
2013-05-23 08:48:42 PM
1 votes:
I cannot believe they would justify the ban on openly gay members because their oath includes the two words 'morally' and 'straight' next to each other. That's a really queer way of looking at it.
Skr
2013-05-23 08:43:29 PM
1 votes:
Scouting was a great experience for me as a kid. the adults never pressed any religious aspect and just impressed on us the need to respect nature and people alike. The group a year ahead of me was basically holding the troop together, so when they left it collapsed. great times were had though. exploring, camping, hiking, and general chilling out
2013-05-23 08:21:27 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: and agnostics.

They don't care which religion you believe, as long as you don't question. Kind of like Alcoholics Anonymous.


Good point. But it's more like "which religion you say you believe", since the "honest" part doesn't actually apply here.
2013-05-23 08:19:42 PM
1 votes:

Bumblefark: NaziKamikaze: Arachnophobe: GoldSpider: Oddly enough, he never messed with any kids, and is generally regarded by everyone who knows him a good guy.

Why is that odd?

The awesomeness of your two logins aside, this is the core reason why they want to ban gays.  Because in their minds gay = pedo/child predator.

Eh...

Would you put a straight man in charge of a bunch of 16 and 17 year old girls, out in the woods?

If something inappropriate happened, would that be because he's a "pedophile" or because grown men have been known to be kinda flexible about the age of majority, when the opportunity is there.

/difficulty: I think the ban is moronic.
//double difficulty: also not a troll


Which is why a woman must accompany a Venture Crew on a event.
2013-05-23 08:10:16 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.


ionetheurbandaily.files.wordpress.com

Agrees with prerogatives.
2013-05-23 07:54:59 PM
1 votes:

Arachnophobe: GoldSpider: Oddly enough, he never messed with any kids, and is generally regarded by everyone who knows him a good guy.

Why is that odd?


The awesomeness of your two logins aside, this is the core reason why they want to ban gays.  Because in their minds gay = pedo/child predator.
2013-05-23 07:53:25 PM
1 votes:

TheWhoppah: So, are the Boys Scouts still a hate group or does this fix that?


I'm pretty sure the "hating" came from the adults and a bunch of asshole religious leaders. I'd wager the actual scouts had fark-all to do with it.
2013-05-23 07:51:48 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: WordyGrrl: This kind of peer support can go a long way in making sure they grow up to be decent, well-adjusted human beings.

...which will then be excluded from volunteering or working for BSA because they're immoral homosexuals.


Right now.  Here is hoping that will change in the near future also.
2013-05-23 07:50:31 PM
1 votes:

WordyGrrl: This kind of peer support can go a long way in making sure they grow up to be decent, well-adjusted human beings.


...which will then be excluded from volunteering or working for BSA because they're immoral homosexuals.
2013-05-23 07:50:24 PM
1 votes:
Good.

Never knew this was even an issue when I was in scouts  a million years ago.  assholes.
2013-05-23 07:48:50 PM
1 votes:

Fjornir: nekom: This one.  Well played.  Honestly, did not expect that, it's a private organization after all so it's entirely their business, but it's good to see some acceptance.

Well, except for all the public funds and free use of government facilities, I'd agree with you.

I think the threat of loss of government sponsorship probably had a lot to do with this decision...


Perhaps, but even if they're right for the wrong reasons, it's good to see the cause of equality and acceptance advanced.  So I suppose in any case, this news gets two thumbs up from me.
2013-05-23 07:47:12 PM
1 votes:

Lenny_da_Hog: Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.

Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.


think of it this way - would you rather the BSA get 'special treatment' or a couple of megacorps?  given the choice, i'm prepared to let things slide for the scouts.
2013-05-23 07:46:28 PM
1 votes:

DarwiOdrade: The military survived it with hardly a hiccup - I think the scouts will be just fine.


The military isn't largely funded by religious organizations either.  I'm more worried about the scouts who have been manipulated in this debate to the conclusion that homosexuality is "wrong".
2013-05-23 07:41:38 PM
1 votes:
Webelos?

We do now!
2013-05-23 07:41:04 PM
1 votes:

buzzcut73: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: FTFA:
Austin Ruse, president of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute in Washington, D.C., said the shift "would utterly change Scouting and dramatically reduce their ranks. The Catholic and Mormon groups would simply have to walk away."

And another group of bigots with "Family" in their name. Good for the Scouts; it's about damn time.

I'd be OK with the religious groups walking away, they kind of took over for the past couple of decades and screwed things up.

/Former non-gay boy scout
//We had gay kids in my troop, as well as a few others
///Nobody really gave a shiat


Our troop had a leader that turned out to be gay.  He was ousted once he was "discovered".  Oddly enough, he never messed with any kids, and is generally regarded by everyone who knows him a good guy.
2013-05-23 07:40:25 PM
1 votes:

GoldSpider: TheWhoppah: So, are the Boys Scouts still a hate group or does this fix that?

A lot of scouts attended rallies against the resolution, whether or not they even realized what it was about.  There's likely still a lot of damage that needs repaired yet.


The military survived it with hardly a hiccup - I think the scouts will be just fine.
2013-05-23 07:39:52 PM
1 votes:
They're still a group of bigots. They still say you can't be moral if you're non-religious.

Also, they still say gays aren't suitable to be scout leaders and volunteers --  basically, they're accepting gays into the ranks while telling them how awful they will be as adults.
2013-05-23 07:38:43 PM
1 votes:

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: FTFA:
Austin Ruse, president of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute in Washington, D.C., said the shift "would utterly change Scouting and dramatically reduce their ranks. The Catholic and Mormon groups would simply have to walk away."

And another group of bigots with "Family" in their name. Good for the Scouts; it's about damn time.


I'd be OK with the religious groups walking away, they kind of took over for the past couple of decades and screwed things up.

/Former non-gay boy scout
//We had gay kids in my troop, as well as a few others
///Nobody really gave a shiat
2013-05-23 07:38:04 PM
1 votes:
www.naturediscoverycenter.org
2013-05-23 07:37:13 PM
1 votes:
first marriage, now scouting.  why the fark do teh gays want to be so miserable?
2013-05-23 07:36:40 PM
1 votes:
Hopefully they'll still be prepared.  Which reminds me of a great Tom Lehrer song... I'll sing it lustily for you...

This one is a little song dedicated to the Boy Scouts of America. [applause] We seem to have a convention here tonight. The Boy Scouts of America, those noble little... bastions of democracy, and the American Legion of tomorrow. Their motto is... I would like to state at this time that I am not now and have never been... a member of the Boy Scouts of America. Their motto is, as you know, Be Prepared! and that is the name of this song.

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scout's marching song,
Be prepared! As through life you march along.
Be prepared to hold your liquor pretty well,
Don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell.
Be prepared! To hide that pack of cigarettes,
Don't make book if you cannot cover bets.
Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure
That they will not be found
And be careful not to smoke them
When the scoutmaster's around
For he only will insist that it be shared.
Be prepared!
Be prepared! That's the Boy Scouts' solemn creed,
Be prepared! And be clean in word and deed.
Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice,
Unless you get a good percentage of her price.
Be prepared! And be careful not to do
Your good deeds when there's no one watching you.
If you're looking for adventure of a
new and different kind,
And you come across a Girl Scout who is
similarly inclined,
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared.
Be prepared!
2013-05-23 07:36:26 PM
1 votes:

nekom: This one.  Well played.  Honestly, did not expect that, it's a private organization after all so it's entirely their business, but it's good to see some acceptance.


Well, except for all the public funds and free use of government facilities, I'd agree with you.

I think the threat of loss of government sponsorship probably had a lot to do with this decision...
2013-05-23 07:35:23 PM
1 votes:
Ironically the founder of the Boy Scouts was gay.
2013-05-23 07:34:31 PM
1 votes:
Good.
2013-05-23 06:57:41 PM
1 votes:
Fred Jones can now be a scout?
2013-05-23 06:56:49 PM
1 votes:
Better late than never.  Good job, scouts.
 
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