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(USA Today)   Polite young men who wear neckerchiefs, colorful badges and khaki shorts in public are now allowed to be openly gay   (usatoday.com) divider line 232
    More: News, batty boys, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, badges, grape vine  
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7706 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 May 2013 at 7:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-23 09:21:08 PM

Mad_Radhu: So will you still get kicked out if you eat a Brownie?



I giggled.
 
2013-05-23 09:26:24 PM
Well, as a former Scout, I am happy to see them take a step in the right direction.
 
2013-05-23 09:46:58 PM
Lame, now you'll be able to hear them farking instead of just suspect it.

Hey guys, you wanna go to the lake tommor... Oh, sorry, I'll, just, talk to you in the morning.

Also, now they'll have to deal with rape and consent issues, instead of, you know, teaching outdoor survival and functional skills.

Not that I'm against openly gay scouts really, but it opens up a whole nother level (which is irrelevant to their mission)..

So yay i guess, except not having sex is sort of a thing, especially when cultivating a non abusive sense of fraternity which involves children...

On the fence, don't want persecution, but outright acceptance and "sensitivity training" sort of kills the institution, maybe that's the point?

Keep in mind, i dropped out of the scouts because they wanted me to take an oath to God (am an athiest who in many cases philosophically aligns with predominant peaceful Christian(most religions in general) theology), if i had stayed in i would have attained eagle and probably carried on..

Definitely a mixed bag, this is not a victory for anyone.
 
2013-05-23 09:48:39 PM
 
2013-05-23 09:50:43 PM
In a world where you can get your head cut off on a public street by an fundie, where you stick your penis should be of a low concern.

/Eagle Scout
 
2013-05-23 09:54:26 PM

wildsnowllama: brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.

Scouts are up to 18 aren't they?


Yup. Had my Eagle board of review on my 18th Birthday. Project hit a few obstacles and kept getting delayed, but I wanted to finish and was essentially a junior assistant scoutmaster (which is usually what eagles who want to stay involved do) in all but name the last few years, so it stayed interesting.

Also, as an Eagle, about farking time they made some progress. Now let's get this stupid gay people= pedophiles thing out of the organization's collective head and go all the way.

Oh, and subby, the shorts are olive, not khaki. Only the shirts are khaki. And neckerchiefs are a troop by troop thing. Apart from the national jamboree and rare special occasions, I never wore one.
 
2013-05-23 09:58:37 PM
Does the NFL accept openly left-handed players?

/ Being gay is normal.  It's just not common.
 
2013-05-23 10:00:03 PM
Not good enough.  They try to do the right thing and they still fail.
 
2013-05-23 10:03:07 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: They're still a group of bigots. They still say you can't be moral if you're non-religious.

Also, they still say gays aren't suitable to be scout leaders and volunteers --  basically, they're accepting gays into the ranks while telling them how awful they will be as adults.


What type of a message does it send to gay teens to tell them that it is OK for them to be a scout but once they hit 18 they can no longer be a part of the organization?
 
2013-05-23 10:08:07 PM

GoldSpider: Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.

That's why I attended their rally in Mechanicsburg in opposition of the ban.  The change needed to come from within.

Lenny_da_Hog: Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.

I'm pretty sure the BSA had to forsake any government assistance if they were to be allowed to discriminate.  I could be wrong though.


Nope.  They still had preferential treatment from the government, especially in the use of their military base at For A.P. Hill for their National Jamboree.
 
2013-05-23 10:10:19 PM

p51d007: Congrats for destroying another institution of American culture.
Might as well get rid of the Boy Scout oath while you are at it.

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

How the hell can you do your duty to God, and be morally straight, if they accept
homosexuals?


Can you please quote where it says that it is wrong to be gay?
 
2013-05-23 10:20:54 PM

FreetardoRivera: Just about everyone who stayed in scouts past junior high was gay anyway.


I had some friends in high school who used boy scouts as an excuse to go camping, get drunk, and smoke some pot in the woods.  Doesn't sound like the worse way to spend a weekend in high school.
 
2013-05-23 10:21:00 PM

orbister: p51d007: How the hell can you do your duty to God, and be morally straight, if they accept
homosexuals menstruating women?

Leviticised that for you.


You know, after being around menstruating women most of my life, I developed a real appreciation for the Levitical approach of kicking them the hell out of town during that time.

/as well as a week before
//maybe Moses was on to something
 
2013-05-23 10:22:22 PM

studebaker hoch: Does the NFL accept openly left-handed players?

/ Being gay is normal.  It's just not common.


Left-handed QBs just look weird when they play.
 
2013-05-23 10:22:41 PM

Mock26: GoldSpider: Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.

That's why I attended their rally in Mechanicsburg in opposition of the ban.  The change needed to come from within.

Lenny_da_Hog: Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.

I'm pretty sure the BSA had to forsake any government assistance if they were to be allowed to discriminate.  I could be wrong though.

Nope.  They still had preferential treatment from the government, especially in the use of their military base at For A.P. Hill for their National Jamboree.


Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.

How many descriminatory religious organizations have hosted events on the National Mall?
 
2013-05-23 10:29:16 PM

max_pooper: Mock26: GoldSpider: Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.

That's why I attended their rally in Mechanicsburg in opposition of the ban.  The change needed to come from within.

Lenny_da_Hog: Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.

I'm pretty sure the BSA had to forsake any government assistance if they were to be allowed to discriminate.  I could be wrong though.

Nope.  They still had preferential treatment from the government, especially in the use of their military base at For A.P. Hill for their National Jamboree.

Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.

How many descriminatory religious organizations have hosted events on the National Mall?


Million Man March?
 
2013-05-23 10:30:16 PM

Lor M. Ipsum: FreetardoRivera: Just about everyone who stayed in scouts past junior high was gay anyway.

I had some friends in high school who used boy scouts as an excuse to go camping, get drunk, and smoke some pot in the woods.  Doesn't sound like the worse way to spend a weekend in high school.


Yup. I got my Eagle Scout award when I was 13. At 15, I went to the world scout jamboree in Holland where we smoked alot of pot. We spent a week in London first where we drank alot of booze. Sneaking weed and alcohol on camping trips was common.

I stayed active in scouts throughout high school. I got to go to the previously mentioned world jamboree, national jamboree, two trips to the Chalres Sumner Canoe base and three trips to Philmont. I also got involved with adventure scouts because well... girls!!!
 
2013-05-23 10:43:55 PM

max_pooper: Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.


Nice and all, but we were talking about exclusive access. Special rights, not equal rights, that sort of thing.

Other groups can't apply for and use military bases for camp-outs. The Boy Scouts in many parts of the country did/do get special access to schools for recruiting purposes, or were permitted to use the schools as meeting places when other groups weren't allowed to do the same under the same terms/conditions.

Lots of cities and states limit use of public buildings and other facilities to groups that don't discriminate. Federal laws enacted through the Dept. of Education, DOD, and HUD make it illegal to limit BSA's use of public assets for those reasons. One prejudicial group can't use the building -- another (the BSA) can.

Special rights.
 
2013-05-23 10:45:24 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: max_pooper: Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.

Nice and all, but we were talking about exclusive access. Special rights, not equal rights, that sort of thing.

Other groups can't apply for and use military bases for camp-outs. The Boy Scouts in many parts of the country did/do get special access to schools for recruiting purposes, or were permitted to use the schools as meeting places when other groups weren't allowed to do the same under the same terms/conditions.

Lots of cities and states limit use of public buildings and other facilities to groups that don't discriminate. Federal laws enacted through the Dept. of Education, DOD, and HUD make it illegal to limit BSA's use of public assets for those reasons. One prejudicial group can't use the building -- another (the BSA) can.

Special rights.


Bullshiat
 
2013-05-23 10:46:56 PM

Mock26: Can you please quote where it says that it is wrong to be gay?


something something, it has to be the christian god something, my own sect's interpretation of the bible something can't be gay and moral something
 
2013-05-23 10:47:31 PM

God-is-a-Taco: It was done out of politics as opposed to any change of heart, but if it helps people it's worth it.


Given it went to a vote that split out 38% to 60% with 2% not responding, and (inside knowledge) knowing that most resolution votes usually split no wider than 53/47, this isn't just a landslide, it's more than a mandate, it's about as unanimous as things get at the national level.  On  almost every issue, National tends to be like the Neutral Planet:  No strong feelings one way or another.   The even bigger surprise to me was that it came pretty close to the same breakdown the Washington Post had when they posed the same question to members of the general public.
 
2013-05-23 10:50:19 PM

Walker: Ironically the founder of the Boy Scouts was gay.


It was the Victorian era.  There wasn't really a taboo against homosexuality at that point, that was more of a 20th-century thing for the most part.  But, being the Victorian era, you were "out of the closet" if you acknowledged having sexual urges...
 
2013-05-23 10:51:17 PM
"On my honor I will do my best .... to keep myself physically strong, mentally alert and morally straight." I don't understand...why is gaydom not moral?
 
2013-05-23 10:55:05 PM

Rodeodoc: Hopefully they'll still be prepared.  Which reminds me of a great Tom Lehrer song... I'll sing it lustily for you...

This one is a little song dedicated to the Boy Scouts of America. [applause] We seem to have a convention here tonight. The Boy Scouts of America, those noble little... bastions of democracy, and the American Legion of tomorrow. Their motto is... I would like to state at this time that I am not now and have never been... a member of the Boy Scouts of America. Their motto is, as you know, Be Prepared! and that is the name of this song.

Be prepared! That's the Boy Scout's marching song,
Be prepared! As through life you march along.
Be prepared to hold your liquor pretty well,
Don't write naughty words on walls if you can't spell.
Be prepared! To hide that pack of cigarettes,
Don't make book if you cannot cover bets.
Keep those reefers hidden where you're sure
That they will not be found
And be careful not to smoke them
When the scoutmaster's around
For he only will insist that it be shared.
Be prepared!
Be prepared! That's the Boy Scouts' solemn creed,
Be prepared! And be clean in word and deed.
Don't solicit for your sister, that's not nice,
Unless you get a good percentage of her price.
Be prepared! And be careful not to do
Your good deeds when there's no one watching you.
If you're looking for adventure of a
new and different kind,
And you come across a Girl Scout who is
similarly inclined,
Don't be nervous, don't be flustered, don't be scared.
Be prepared!


Heh, didn't realize that was actually a Tom Lehrer.  Thought it was a regional running gag.
 
2013-05-23 10:55:15 PM

max_pooper: Bullshiat


Yeah. All that litigation over the years was completely fiction. I created the two Wiki articles on the federal laws expressly protecting the BSA just to mess with your head. You caught me.
 
2013-05-23 10:55:47 PM

Weaver95: think of it this way - would you rather the BSA get 'special treatment' or a couple of megacorps? given the choice, i'm prepared to let things slide for the scouts.


Is Chick-fil-a one of the megacorps?
 
2013-05-23 11:00:28 PM

netweavr: Okay for scouts but not scout leaders? Does this mean they're treating it like a mental disease?


More like race.  It took the Scouts nine years to go from allowing colored Scouts before they allowed colored Scouters.
 
2013-05-23 11:00:44 PM

brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.


A lot of kids know they're lobtq before they're 12.  I did.  Now, OPENLY gay is another question, as I also knew long before I turned12 that I had to hide my sexual orientation or get into trouble for it.
 
2013-05-23 11:01:18 PM

max_pooper: Lenny_da_Hog: max_pooper: Using government owned land is not what I would considered preferential treatment. All sorts of organizations use public lands to have events and they are all free to descriminate all they want.

Nice and all, but we were talking about exclusive access. Special rights, not equal rights, that sort of thing.

Other groups can't apply for and use military bases for camp-outs. The Boy Scouts in many parts of the country did/do get special access to schools for recruiting purposes, or were permitted to use the schools as meeting places when other groups weren't allowed to do the same under the same terms/conditions.

Lots of cities and states limit use of public buildings and other facilities to groups that don't discriminate. Federal laws enacted through the Dept. of Education, DOD, and HUD make it illegal to limit BSA's use of public assets for those reasons. One prejudicial group can't use the building -- another (the BSA) can.

Special rights.

Bullshiat


You have confused baseless dismissal of a fact supported with citations with an actual refutation. The former, which you have issued, is not logically equivalent to the latter, which you have not.
 
2013-05-23 11:05:36 PM

DarwiOdrade: Maybe those religious types will pull out before donating their load....of cash.


And if they want to do that, then all I have to say is, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."  Enough people see the value in Scouting a lot of sponsors that left in the 90's would be happy to come back now that the Scouts are wading into the 21st century.
 
2013-05-23 11:06:13 PM

knowless: So yay i guess, except not having sex is sort of a thing, especially when cultivating a non abusive sense of fraternity which involves children...

On the fence, don't want persecution, but outright acceptance and "sensitivity training" sort of kills the institution, maybe that's the point?

Keep in mind, i dropped out of the scouts because they wanted me to take an oath to God (am an athiest who in many cases philosophically aligns with predominant peaceful Christian(most religions in general) theology), if i had stayed in i would have attained eagle and probably carried on..


So either you're trolling, or you are both an atheist and a homophobe.  Either way you are one weird farker.
 
2013-05-23 11:08:00 PM

Mock26: Not good enough.  They try to do the right thing and they still fail.


But they've started the race.  The finish line is not yet crossed, but it will happen.  At most a generation, probably much less time.

/Change scares them
//Baby steps
 
2013-05-23 11:21:40 PM
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-05-23 11:22:30 PM

Fjornir: nekom: This one.  Well played.  Honestly, did not expect that, it's a private organization after all so it's entirely their business, but it's good to see some acceptance.

Well, except for all the public funds and free use of government facilities, I'd agree with you.

I think the threat of loss of government sponsorship probably had a lot to do with this decision...


BSA doesn't use public funds, and as far as I know they never have.  Also, although they have used government facilities in the past, by and large they no longer have that option, which is why pretty much every scout troop today is chartered by a church or occasionally an Elks lodge or some such.  They have no "government sponsorship", though I agree that part of their reasoning on this decision is the wish to regain access to city part meeting halls, schools auditoriums, that sort of thing.
 
2013-05-23 11:23:13 PM

Fjornir: nekom: This one.  Well played.  Honestly, did not expect that, it's a private organization after all so it's entirely their business, but it's good to see some acceptance.

Well, except for all the public funds and free use of government facilities, I'd agree with you.

I think the threat of loss of government sponsorship probably had a lot to do with this decision...


BSA doesn't use public funds, and as far as I know they never have.  Also, although they have used government facilities in the past, by and large they no longer have that option, which is why pretty much every scout troop today is chartered by a church or occasionally an Elks lodge or some such.  They have no "government sponsorship", though I agree that part of their reasoning on this decision is the wish to regain access to city park meeting halls, schools auditoriums, that sort of thing.
 
2013-05-23 11:32:26 PM
So I guess they're gonna start selling cookies too?
 
2013-05-23 11:38:58 PM

Alleyoop: So I guess they're gonna start selling cookies too?


They already do. Google Analytics and Reinvigorate track their website.
 
2013-05-23 11:46:45 PM

Weaver95: I wonder if the evangelical megachurches will try and force a schism in scouting?  they aren't going to like this news at all.  of course, the evangelicals are more than welcome to found their own private organization that excludes gays from it's ranks...but that will cost quite a lot of money, and well...they ARE prosperity gospel types.


Didn't stop the Mormons from having their own private Girl Scout equivalent.  If they want to be special and ride a very short bus, that's fine but they need to bring their own bus rather than trying to hack off half of ours.
 
2013-05-23 11:48:56 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Would you like the KKK to get special treatment, or a couple of megacorps? Would you like Greenpeace to get special treatment or a couple of megacorps?


If I had to choose, Monsanto and BP would get my vote over Greenpeace and the Klan.  And it's not that I hate the planet, it's that the Klan and Greenpeace are immeasurably worse.
 
2013-05-23 11:49:12 PM

hlehmann: BSA doesn't use public funds, and as far as I know they never have.  Also, although they have used government facilities in the past, by and large they no longer have that option, which is why pretty much every scout troop today is chartered by a church or occasionally an Elks lodge or some such.


Up until 2005, government agencies used to directly sponsor troops. The ACLU got involved, and the BSA *then* transferred all of its government agency charters to private organizations.  Previously, about 400 Scouting units had been sponsored by U.S. military bases and over 10,000 by other governmental entities, primarily public schools.
 
2013-05-23 11:50:55 PM

GoldSpider: Weaver95: their clubhouse, their rules.  if they decided to change 'em, then that's their prerogative.

That's why I attended their rally in Mechanicsburg in opposition of the ban.  The change needed to come from within.

Lenny_da_Hog: Except when they get preferential treatment from government organizations. Then it's my clubhouse they're using.

I'm pretty sure the BSA had to forsake any government assistance if they were to be allowed to discriminate.  I could be wrong though.


Congressionally chartered organization.  Basically, federally protected national institution.
 
2013-05-23 11:55:11 PM

NaziKamikaze: You don't know BS history if you think they just recently took over.  Two things - it started as a military and religious prep organization.


More the former, less the latter.  The reverence and duty to god bit is kind of a throwback to the early 1900s when organized religion in general was in vogue on this continent.  Anybody that's been in Scouts and is still alive can tell you the Scouting program doesn't really lean on religion that hard.  The converse isn't always true, the Mormons like to use Scouting as a crutch for not really having their own confirmation program for boys totally fleshed out...
 
2013-05-23 11:57:43 PM
userserve-ak.last.fm

In the boy scouts, you can go to the woods, in the boy scouts, and then touch some guy's...wood....
 
2013-05-24 12:00:37 AM

cc_rider: I'm pretty sure the "hating" came from the adults and a bunch of asshole religious leaders. I'd wager the actual scouts had fark-all to do with it.


I'd wager the rank-and-file Scouts were too busy actually Scouting to care.  Then there's this guy, obviously pretty proud of his Eagle to incorporate it into his fursona.
img.fark.net
 
2013-05-24 12:05:17 AM

Baloo Uriza: Anybody that's been in Scouts and is still alive can tell you the Scouting program doesn't really lean on religion that hard.


There was also that big resurgence during the Cold war, when atheists were communists, but it mostly depends on where you live whether or not it gets enforced.

I was in scouts in the 70s for almost a year in 7th grade, then moved to a different town for 8th grade. There, I joined a new troop and was a member for a couple of weeks before I got into a heated discussion about evolution after science class at school. One of the troop members told the adult leadership, who pulled me aside before the next meeting and asked me about it. They deemed I wasn't reverent enough and kicked me out (That troop was sponsored by a Methodist church).
 
2013-05-24 12:08:22 AM

Another Government Employee: You do know Hitler Youth was patterned after Scouts?


Probably because the Nazi Party forcibly took over Germany's Scouting organization in an effort to hijack the Scouting movement for it's own purposes.  I don't think they expected Poland's Scouting movement to be just a wee bit more hardcore.
 
2013-05-24 12:10:52 AM

wildsnowllama: brapbrapbrap: Aren't scouts 12 years old or something? How many "openly gay" 12 year olds are there? Can't remember any at my school.

Scouts are up to 18 aren't they?


21 in some divisions (Sea Scout ships, whatever Air Scout wings might still be lingering after Homeland Security pretty much killed it, Explorer posts, troop venture crews).
 
2013-05-24 12:14:58 AM

SpiderQueenDemon: /that, and FFA boys didn't have a whole damn outfit and a faaaabulous Victorinox knife they were afraid to use because it cost $200.


I saved up, bought, and ultimately obliterated five of the damn things before the Leatherman was invented and I made the switch.

/Leatherman:  The only thing about .com-era Portland that actually stood the test of time.
 
2013-05-24 12:18:02 AM

Mrtraveler01: The Boy Scouts are a fairly conservatively run organization but I guess even they saw the writing on the wall and realized how stupid it was to keep people out of what is otherwise a decent organization just because they're gay.


More like it got forced to a poll of regional council and district executives, and it turns out most of the locals don't give a shiat and couldn't figure out what the boys in Irving were smoking on.
 
2013-05-24 12:18:58 AM

Lenny_da_Hog: hlehmann: BSA doesn't use public funds, and as far as I know they never have.  Also, although they have used government facilities in the past, by and large they no longer have that option, which is why pretty much every scout troop today is chartered by a church or occasionally an Elks lodge or some such.

Up until 2005, government agencies used to directly sponsor troops. The ACLU got involved, and the BSA *then* transferred all of its government agency charters to private organizations.  Previously, about 400 Scouting units had been sponsored by U.S. military bases and over 10,000 by other governmental entities, primarily public schools.


I stand corrected.  Been a scout leader since about 1997, and the only local unit that I was aware of that had any kind of government sponsorship went through a lot of grief about 10 years ago when the parks department no longer wanted to give them access to a meeting hall which they had been using for the past 30 years or so.
 
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