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(Nola.com)   Standardized tests show our children isn't learning in voucher schools   (nola.com) divider line 132
    More: Followup, voucher school, Louisiana Supreme Court, private schools, standardized test, Bobby Jindal  
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4093 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 May 2013 at 6:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-23 06:22:21 AM
Got as far as "Louisiana".

Seriously, that should have been mentioned in the headline.
 
2013-05-23 06:24:41 AM
BULLshiat! They are learning about Jesus, and in the big scheme of things, that's really all that is important.
 
2013-05-23 06:27:18 AM
Such poor grammar. Did subby go to voucher school?
 
2013-05-23 06:33:29 AM
Yeah but how did they do on the physical challenge?
 
2013-05-23 06:37:19 AM
How did they score on the Intelligent Design tests?
 
2013-05-23 06:38:50 AM
Is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" argument?
 
2013-05-23 06:40:57 AM
In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...
 
2013-05-23 06:43:37 AM

aNihilV10L8tr: Such poor grammar. Did subby go to voucher school?


thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2013-05-23 06:46:11 AM

markfara: Got as far as "Louisiana".

Seriously, that should have been mentioned in the headline.


the NOLA.com is a dead giveaway.

yeah we're so proud of our schools here. it's not so much that vouchers are inherently evil but the way this program has been funded and handled sure is.
 
2013-05-23 06:46:17 AM

dragonchild: Is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" argument?


It would be nice if things like education, science, and reality weren't political issues.
 
2013-05-23 06:50:04 AM
Vouchers are a way to put public money into a few private hands.. that's the goal.
 
2013-05-23 06:53:27 AM
Oops, so sorry, didn't realize I walked into a petty circle jerk, I'll let myself out.

Seriously, you just stay in here, the rest of us were busy having a life so you wouldn't be interested anyway.
 
2013-05-23 06:54:03 AM

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: dragonchild: Is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" argument?

It would be nice if things like education, science, and reality weren't political issues.


Yeah it'd be nice if I had 42 million dollars and my dick tasted like happiness but that ain't the case is it sunshine??

Sorry, dammit I'm cranky this morning, where's that damn coffee.
 
2013-05-23 06:54:52 AM

miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...


More Fark atheists hating on religion and Jesus Christ. Bigots.
 
2013-05-23 06:55:33 AM
Step One: Create consumer culture. Anything you want is painlessly bought with money.

Step Two: Pretend education is a product you can buy instead of something you do yourself.

Step Three: Cut teacher pay and teacher influence on education.

Step Four: Blame other people when the system fails kids.


Find me the school run the teacher (not a bureaucrat) that isn't afraid to toss a student who isn't trying out on his ass and I'll show you results. Why? Only good students will stay and they'll pay enough to attract good teachers.

Teachers are like a coach. They're an invaluable asset to the team, but they can't play the game on the field. That has to be won with countless hours of training and practice. All skills are the same way. Be it math or football, computers or Cadillacs, whatever you're learning about requires your time and effort. No one can beam that knowledge into your head and the best teachers in the world don't tell you new information so much as inspire you to study it on your own.
 
2013-05-23 07:00:14 AM
What do you expect when you drop a lot of unwashed publics into the superior private school system? Magic?
 
2013-05-23 07:01:11 AM
Somehow, without even reading the article or even glancing at the source tag, I understood it was going to be about my state.

Thank you, Brother Jindal, for your efforts to transform our already-miserable education system into the godawful Abeka/A.C.E.-fired reactor of pure stupid it is fast becoming.
 
2013-05-23 07:01:50 AM

miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...


I didn't bother reading the damn article. I just assumed there was an issue with the translation of Christianity Math exercises. Explaining how "knowing begats" without explaining the mechanics might be an issue of sorts too.
 
2013-05-23 07:02:31 AM
The vast majority of these students came from the poorest areas in Louisiana. The question shouldn't be how are these students doing in comparison to the rest of the state, but how are these students doing in comparison to the schools they came from.

If were going to have a debate about school vouchers we need to at least use honest statistics. After all, the goal is improving the life of the students. Politics, religion, and profit have to be set aside.
 
2013-05-23 07:03:33 AM
It's not the schools. It's not the vouchers. It's not politics. It's not the curriculum.

We could cut a check for a billion dollars into Louisiana schools, build world class schools with theaters, Olympic-sized pools and hire MIT professors to teach ... it won't matter. Need proof? Here:  http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
 
2013-05-23 07:09:09 AM

miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...


Most of the private schools here are religious. Conversely, some of the best schools in the New Orleans area are religious, too.  But, hey, you're the expert. You tell all of us New Orleans parents which schools we should send our kids to. Go on. I'll wait for you to post your list. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge on our schools, so please share.
 
2013-05-23 07:14:59 AM

Nabb1: miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...

Most of the private schools here are religious. Conversely, some of the best schools in the New Orleans area are religious, too.   But, hey, you're the expert. You tell all of us New Orleans parents which schools we should send our kids to. Go on. I'll wait for you to post your list. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge on our schools, so please share.


Yes, that's clearly what my five words implied. How about you take a step back, take a deep breath and remember where we are, ok?
 
2013-05-23 07:16:59 AM
That should be "our childses isn't learning"

sheesh...
 
2013-05-23 07:17:47 AM
This study is important, because getting all the answers right on standardized tests is the only reason we send children to school.  Any other criteria by which one could evaluate a school is simply irrelevant.

Teaching children to think independently and critically is dangerous and backwards.  We want them to answer our questions, not ask questions.
 
2013-05-23 07:20:45 AM

miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...


Heh... No shiat.
 
2013-05-23 07:24:18 AM
But since standardized tests am bad, voucher shools be good?
 
2013-05-23 07:26:53 AM

miss diminutive: Nabb1: miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...

Most of the private schools here are religious. Conversely, some of the best schools in the New Orleans area are religious, too.   But, hey, you're the expert. You tell all of us New Orleans parents which schools we should send our kids to. Go on. I'll wait for you to post your list. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge on our schools, so please share.

Yes, that's clearly what my five words implied. How about you take a step back, take a deep breath and remember where we are, ok?


The Christys are a bit testy this morning.
 
2013-05-23 07:32:18 AM

miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...


Was just about to post this.  Anybody want to bet their science scores are all in the failing range?
 
2013-05-23 07:35:29 AM

miss diminutive: Nabb1: miss diminutive: In Orleans, the schools are Life of Christ Academy, the Upperroom Bible Church Academy, Bishop McManus, Conquering Word Christian Academy Eastbank and Holy Rosary Academy. In Jefferson, they are Faith Christian Academy and Conquering Word Christian Academy.

I'm noticing a pattern here...

Most of the private schools here are religious. Conversely, some of the best schools in the New Orleans area are religious, too.   But, hey, you're the expert. You tell all of us New Orleans parents which schools we should send our kids to. Go on. I'll wait for you to post your list. I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge on our schools, so please share.

Yes, that's clearly what my five words implied. How about you take a step back, take a deep breath and remember where we are, ok?


Sorry. Haven't had my coffe yet.
 
2013-05-23 07:36:41 AM
MJMaloney187

It's not the schools. It's not the vouchers. It's not politics. It's not the curriculum.

We could cut a check for a billion dollars into Louisiana schools, build world class schools with theaters, Olympic-sized pools and hire MIT professors to teach ... it won't matter. Need proof? Here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html


You expect anyone to read that Tolstoy? Last line is all you needed to have posted:

"In the meantime, they ignore ideas that might work. They might fire poor teachers and reward good ones with merit pay, give parents vouchers so they could send their children to private schools, or stop trying to solve the problem of dysfunctional families after the fact and look upstream for a solution--the elimination of welfare to end the resulting social chaos."

Rahm is trying another approach in Chicago, by closing 50 public schools.
 
2013-05-23 07:40:06 AM
First: In 2011, when the voucher program operated only in New Orleans, students averaged 33 percent proficiency.

Second: Released Wednesday, LEAP scores for third- through eighth-graders show only 40 percent of voucher students scored at or above grade level this past spring.

From 33 to 40%? Perhaps the slight difference in the way the stat is presented could indicate something different but that seems like an improvement.

You have to understand, New Orleans has some of the worst schools in the nation. The school system is horribly broken. The state system? It's alright. Not terrific but alright. When you're talking about the dismal quality of education in Louisiana, you're really talking about New Orleans and thin slivers of bad schools in the rest of the state.

dragonchild: Is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" argument?


Heh... Farkers don't even know. They think all schools in Louisiana are run by conservatives and teach Jesus. They like their stereotype.

Hell, the news every few years is "NO school system finds out 'x' million dollars lost to fraud/waste/theft". They couldn't even figure out how to run their payroll and they were paying teachers whatever. They put computers in all the schools and 3 years later most were stolen.
 
2013-05-23 07:41:22 AM
The problem with most attempts to improve education is that there's always the presupposition that parents of underachievers actually give a sh*t whether their kids are educated or not.
 
2013-05-23 07:42:35 AM

Alphax: Vouchers are a way to put public money into a few private hands.. that's the goal.


More specifically, into private Christian school hands.

This only diverts funding away from the public schools.  Instead of trying to get the public schools into acceptable condition (which is hard work and has no easy solutions) they move money around to schools which are apparently no better than the public schools.  Except Jebus.

Because it's much better to teach children that Earf is only 6000 years old and Jesus rode dinosaurs.
 
2013-05-23 07:44:54 AM

Mrbogey: Hell, the news every few years is "NO school system finds out 'x' million dollars lost to fraud/waste/theft". They couldn't even figure out how to run their payroll and they were paying teachers whatever. They put computers in all the schools and 3 years later most were stolen.


Again, they need to deal with the overarching problem -- the systemic fraud inherent in the NO government.  Again, that's a difficult problem to fix, but it doesn't go away by enrolling kids in bad voucher programs.
 
2013-05-23 07:49:54 AM

dragonchild: Is this a "liberal" or a "conservative" argument?


Both.

Conservatives say parents should get to choose where their kids go to school, and they shouldn't have to pay private school costs to do so, they want public and private schools to compete.  So they give tax money to certain people so they can pay private schools tuition.

Liberals say this is a round about way to attack public education and defund public schools and a way to use public money to fund religious institutes.  They also predicted that the outcome that is spoken of in the article will be the result.
 
2013-05-23 07:51:20 AM

Dog Welder: Again, that's a difficult problem to fix, but it doesn't go away by enrolling kids in bad voucher programs.


Yeah, but a few folks are making a tidy profit on it, and that's what really matters...
 
2013-05-23 07:53:36 AM

MJMaloney187: It's not the schools. It's not the vouchers. It's not politics. It's not the curriculum.

We could cut a check for a billion dollars into Louisiana schools, build world class schools with theaters, Olympic-sized pools and hire MIT professors to teach ... it won't matter. Need proof? Here:  http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html


So we need to bring back segregation?
 
2013-05-23 07:53:52 AM
I don't have a problem with this.  Standardized tests are b.s.  Teachers don't teach real subjects, but teach towards the test.
 
2013-05-23 07:55:01 AM

another cultural observer: This study is important, because getting all the answers right on standardized tests is the only reason we send children to school.  Any other criteria by which one could evaluate a school is simply irrelevant.

Teaching children to think independently and critically is dangerous and backwards.  We want them to answer our questions, not ask questions.


Yep pretty much. However with as bad as many inner city schools are, I'd say I don't even care how much student's "learn" for a test or otherwise. What I do care about is if their graduates are employable and stay out of jail. Rather than looking at test scores, why not look at the % with a criminal record or that are gainfully employed when they are 25. Now I'm not sure if the private/bible schools do a better job at keeping kids out of gangs/away from drugs/etc., but if they do it might be worth the trade-off for lower standardized test scores. As far as I know this data doesn't exist.

It's kind of like cholesterol (or lots of other lab tests in medicine). Lots of drugs can lower cholesterol, but only statins have been actually shown to make you live longer. It's how the students do in life, not a number, that we should be measuring.
 
2013-05-23 07:57:10 AM
You can take a pupil out of the public school system, but you can't take the public school system out of a pupil.
 
2013-05-23 07:57:16 AM

SuperTramp: Rahm is trying another approach in Chicago, by closing 50 public schools.


I was going to point this out. It is not so much a failure of the voucher system as the educational system currently in place throughout many regions of the country. What can you do when the schools in your area are not anywhere near where they should be, but even an alternative voucher system placement programs cannot place your kids in a better situation? The whole educational system needs to be fixed in many areas of the country.
 
2013-05-23 08:03:08 AM

pkellmey: SuperTramp: Rahm is trying another approach in Chicago, by closing 50 public schools.

I was going to point this out. It is not so much a failure of the voucher system as the educational system currently in place throughout many regions of the country. What can you do when the schools in your area are not anywhere near where they should be, but even an alternative voucher system placement programs cannot place your kids in a better situation? The whole educational system needs to be fixed in many areas of the country.


Attempting to fix public education would be expensive and risky and would involve a lot of hard work and hard decisions.  Politicians willing to attempt a task with all of those factors do not exist.
 
2013-05-23 08:03:30 AM

BigBooper: The vast majority of these students came from the poorest areas in Louisiana. The question shouldn't be how are these students doing in comparison to the rest of the state, but how are these students doing in comparison to the schools they came from.

If were going to have a debate about school vouchers we need to at least use honest statistics. After all, the goal is improving the life of the students. Politics, religion, and profit have to be set aside.


You can look at the results yourself
http://www.louisianabelieves.com/resources/library/test-results

The 7 voucher schools who were dropped from the program in (Jefferson and Orleans parish) had less than 25 percent of students proficient.  In the public schools in Orleans parish 84% passed, in Jefferson Parrish 76% passed.
 
2013-05-23 08:04:32 AM

Dog Welder: Mrbogey: Hell, the news every few years is "NO school system finds out 'x' million dollars lost to fraud/waste/theft". They couldn't even figure out how to run their payroll and they were paying teachers whatever. They put computers in all the schools and 3 years later most were stolen.

Again, they need to deal with the overarching problem -- the systemic fraud inherent in the NO government.  Again, that's a difficult problem to fix, but it doesn't go away by enrolling kids in bad voucher programs.


"Sorry kid, until we get this figured out, you'll must have to be poorly educated. Maybe one day when you're 30-something, you can send your grandkids to a public school that's run well."
 
2013-05-23 08:06:52 AM
They're doing badly because they're acting up in class and disrupting the learning process and need to be smacked.

/how is voucher formed?
 
2013-05-23 08:08:09 AM
Not only are the students in voucher schools performing 30% under the rate of public school, they are under performing in Louisiana.  Does that mean these children are brain dead?
 
2013-05-23 08:09:51 AM
Were students randomly assigned to voucher schools vs. public schools via lottery? Because self-selecting groups can produce weird results.
 
2013-05-23 08:12:19 AM

MJMaloney187: It's not the schools. It's not the vouchers. It's not politics. It's not the curriculum.

We could cut a check for a billion dollars into Louisiana schools, build world class schools with theaters, Olympic-sized pools and hire MIT professors to teach ... it won't matter. Need proof? Here:  http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html


LOL cato. Let me guess, they came by their statistics by wedging in a couple of 30k a year private school stats in with the public school stats so they could skyrocket the cost per student, while not significantly changing GPA.
 
2013-05-23 08:12:36 AM
*FACEPALM*

Gee, profit-based schools are not teaching kids?  What could be the motive there?
 
2013-05-23 08:16:23 AM

MindStalker: BigBooper: The vast majority of these students came from the poorest areas in Louisiana. The question shouldn't be how are these students doing in comparison to the rest of the state, but how are these students doing in comparison to the schools they came from.

If were going to have a debate about school vouchers we need to at least use honest statistics. After all, the goal is improving the life of the students. Politics, religion, and profit have to be set aside.

You can look at the results yourself
http://www.louisianabelieves.com/resources/library/test-results

The 7 voucher schools who were dropped from the program in (Jefferson and Orleans parish) had less than 25 percent of students proficient.  In the public schools in Orleans parish 84% passed, in Jefferson Parrish 76% passed.


Not technically true as the Recovery School District has the worst schools in the area.
 
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