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(Gothamist)   The real reason the NYPD likes stop-and-frisk is not to keep weapons off the street: It's free weed   (gothamist.com) divider line 130
    More: Obvious, N.Y.P.D., New York Civil Liberties Union, Turtle Bay  
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8049 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2013 at 5:24 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 08:04:46 PM  

stainpouch: I've been conducting an informal poll and it seems that the majority of those who complain about the mayor of NYC also think that he's a Democrat.


Given he changes his political party so often, it's kind of hard to keep up.  He was a democrat, then he was a republican, now he's an independent.   Though I can't guarantee he's still an independent at this very moment.
 
2013-05-22 08:07:53 PM  

miss diminutive: Remind me never to travel to New York as a black person.


Or as any person that values things like, their rights.
 
2013-05-22 08:09:16 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird:
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.


Yep, hence...
Do not talk to the police part 1
 
2013-05-22 08:13:58 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird: 
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.


a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.
 
2013-05-22 08:19:02 PM  
Let me start off by saying that I have serious issues with stop and frisk due to the  Constituional Issues -rascism- and the abuse of power it is leading  to -Bloomberg wants to install remote body scanners on patrol cars.

But if you actually look at the crime rates as well as the  decline in gun possession arrests since the policy was institued then yes it is a freaking success! the article only deals with 2012 records, the low weapons find rate is due ot the  fact  that the  criminal element -well at least the  minority ones- has learned that  they stand a good chance of a gun bust if they carry their piece around town.

While the  Terry Decision procliamed this constituional, there are serious issues in NYNY since they seem to think they do not have apply this to us honkies which is a whole other matter of Constutional questions

As for whining about a posession charge then I guess one should be smart enough to leave the  herb at home untill it is legalized - you know common sense
 
2013-05-22 08:22:30 PM  

Azlefty: Let me start off by saying that I have serious issues with stop and frisk due to the  Constituional Issues -rascism- and the abuse of power it is leading  to -Bloomberg wants to install remote body scanners on patrol cars.

But if you actually look at the crime rates as well as the  decline in gun possession arrests since the policy was institued then yes it is a freaking success! the article only deals with 2012 records, the low weapons find rate is due ot the  fact  that the  criminal element -well at least the  minority ones- has learned that  they stand a good chance of a gun bust if they carry their piece around town.

While the  Terry Decision procliamed this constituional, there are serious issues in NYNY since they seem to think they do not have apply this to us honkies which is a whole other matter of Constutional questions

As for whining about a posession charge then I guess one should be smart enough to leave the  herb at home untill it is legalized - you know common sense


Congratulations, you graduated to the "It's okay to violate laws it people get arrested" school of thought. At this rate, you might hit 8th grade civics before you die.
 
2013-05-22 09:01:14 PM  

nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird: 
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.

a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.


Actually, no.  Police need only a reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur in order to investigate. See Terry Stop.
 
2013-05-22 09:17:36 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird: 
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.

a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.

Actually, no.  Police need only a reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur in order to investigate. See Terry Stop.


shiat. another vague law that is basically a license to do anything at any time.
 
2013-05-22 09:18:56 PM  

hardinparamedic: gilgigamesh: If I got stopped and the cops found a concealed gun on me that I had every right to possess, I would count myself lucky to walk away alive.

Funny. I've been pulled over twice packing, neither time has the cop freaked out on me and tried to shoot me in the face.


Due to some idiot relatives (by marriage, thank dog) acting the fool, I have had to deal with cops 4 times in the last month.  Each time they approach me I identify I have a concealed weapon and it's location.  All 4 times they have looked me over, shrugged their shoulder, and we conducted whatever business they came for.

/white & middle aged
//guess it makes a difference?
 
2013-05-22 09:21:09 PM  

nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird: 
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.

a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.


True, but you don't have to be the one who committed it. They just have to be "investigating" it. And there are a lot of crimes occurring all the time.
 
2013-05-22 09:21:57 PM  
www.rockworldeast.com
 
2013-05-22 09:23:24 PM  

nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird:
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.

a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.

Actually, no.  Police need only a reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur in order to investigate. See Terry Stop.

shiat. another vague law that is basically a license to do anything at any time.


Yep and that's the way they like it.
/Who is they?
 
2013-05-22 09:30:46 PM  

nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: BarkingUnicorn: nburghmatt: PortWineBoy: Nib: dj_bigbird: 
If you say "no" and they search and find weed, once they pull it out of your pocket it's in open view.  You get arrested.  You also get charged with perjury for lying to the cop which is the real trigger for the arrest.

perjury happens in court, when you lie under oath. lying to a cop is completely legal, it just pisses them off.

"Making false statements to police" and "obstructing an investigation" are real things.

a crime has to have already occurred in both cases.

Actually, no.  Police need only a reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring, or is about to occur in order to investigate. See Terry Stop.

shiat. another vague law that is basically a license to do anything at any time.


Well, really, it makes perfect sense.  Ideally, cops should be investigating before crimes occur in order to prevent them. If the investigation aborts a contemplated crime, that's a good thing.  If you don't want to help, fine, you don't have to answer questions (except for stating your name, in some States).  But if you do answer questions, lies obstruct the investigation, may throw police off track, and aid the commission of a crime or its discovery.

Refusing to answer questions may get you threatened with obstruction, but it's a bluff.  Some very foolish cops will carry the bluff as far as arresting you.  The charge won't stick.
 
2013-05-22 10:43:55 PM  
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

WTF!?!?
 
2013-05-22 10:50:12 PM  

Azlefty: Let me start off by saying that I have serious issues with stop and frisk due to the  Constituional Issues -rascism- and the abuse of power it is leading  to -Bloomberg wants to install remote body scanners on patrol cars.

But if you actually look at the crime rates as well as the  decline in gun possession arrests since the policy was institued then yes it is a freaking success! the article only deals with 2012 records, the low weapons find rate is due ot the  fact  that the  criminal element -well at least the  minority ones- has learned that  they stand a good chance of a gun bust if they carry their piece around town.

While the  Terry Decision procliamed this constituional, there are serious issues in NYNY since they seem to think they do not have apply this to us honkies which is a whole other matter of Constutional questions

As for whining about a posession charge then I guess one should be smart enough to leave the  herb at home untill it is legalized - you know common sense


The problem with the Terry Decision is how the police misrepresent the court's findings.  The police proclaim it an expansion of power that allows them to search anyone at any time.  The fact is the Terry case was a LIMIT on police power, stating the police can only do a warrantless search when there is a very clear possibility of a danger to the police officer while investigating a crime.  NYPD has extended this to "we don't like how you look, so we consider that a potential crime.  And we are afraid of your looks, which constitutes an immediate threat."  Eventually the courts are going to slap the shiat out of NYC for this gross violation of the Constitution.
 
2013-05-22 10:59:01 PM  

uncleacid: And free cat food.


Cat food?! Fookin' prawns.
 
2013-05-22 11:07:52 PM  

OgreMagi: Azlefty: Let me start off by saying that I have serious issues with stop and frisk due to the  Constituional Issues -rascism- and the abuse of power it is leading  to -Bloomberg wants to install remote body scanners on patrol cars.

But if you actually look at the crime rates as well as the  decline in gun possession arrests since the policy was institued then yes it is a freaking success! the article only deals with 2012 records, the low weapons find rate is due ot the  fact  that the  criminal element -well at least the  minority ones- has learned that  they stand a good chance of a gun bust if they carry their piece around town.

While the  Terry Decision procliamed this constituional, there are serious issues in NYNY since they seem to think they do not have apply this to us honkies which is a whole other matter of Constutional questions

As for whining about a posession charge then I guess one should be smart enough to leave the  herb at home untill it is legalized - you know common sense

The problem with the Terry Decision is how the police misrepresent the court's findings.  The police proclaim it an expansion of power that allows them to search anyone at any time.  The fact is the Terry case was a LIMIT on police power, stating the police can only do a warrantless search when there is a very clear possibility of a danger to the police officer while investigating a crime.  NYPD has extended this to "we don't like how you look, so we consider that a potential crime.  And we are afraid of your looks, which constitutes an immediate threat."  Eventually the courts are going to slap the shiat out of NYC for this gross violation of the Constitution.


You will learn to like it citizen....
 
2013-05-23 12:04:07 AM  

redmid17: hardinparamedic: redmid17: hardinparamedic: gilgigamesh: If I got stopped and the cops found a concealed gun on me that I had every right to possess, I would count myself lucky to walk away alive.

Funny. I've been pulled over twice packing, neither time has the cop freaked out on me and tried to shoot me in the face.

You're white.

True. It's good to be in charge.

Also, that's not the only reason. I'm also a member of the Neptunati.

Are you going to be at the Bilderberg conference this year? I'm going to need a drinking buddy and you know how exclusive the Rockefellers and Kennedy's can be.


The Bilderbergs? HAHAHAHAH. They're just a front to keep the Five Jew Bankers from finding out we have the spear of Poseidon.

Besides, there is about 13 ritualistic murders between you and the good stuff, neophyte. Get to stabbin'.
 
2013-05-23 12:06:44 AM  

hardinparamedic: redmid17: hardinparamedic: redmid17: hardinparamedic: gilgigamesh: If I got stopped and the cops found a concealed gun on me that I had every right to possess, I would count myself lucky to walk away alive.

Funny. I've been pulled over twice packing, neither time has the cop freaked out on me and tried to shoot me in the face.

You're white.

True. It's good to be in charge.

Also, that's not the only reason. I'm also a member of the Neptunati.

Are you going to be at the Bilderberg conference this year? I'm going to need a drinking buddy and you know how exclusive the Rockefellers and Kennedy's can be.

The Bilderbergs? HAHAHAHAH. They're just a front to keep the Five Jew Bankers from finding out we have the spear of Poseidon.

Besides, there is about 13 ritualistic murders between you and the good stuff, neophyte. Get to stabbin'.


Not again....
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-23 12:10:57 AM  

redmid17: hardinparamedic: redmid17: hardinparamedic: redmid17: hardinparamedic: gilgigamesh: If I got stopped and the cops found a concealed gun on me that I had every right to possess, I would count myself lucky to walk away alive.

Funny. I've been pulled over twice packing, neither time has the cop freaked out on me and tried to shoot me in the face.

You're white.

True. It's good to be in charge.

Also, that's not the only reason. I'm also a member of the Neptunati.

Are you going to be at the Bilderberg conference this year? I'm going to need a drinking buddy and you know how exclusive the Rockefellers and Kennedy's can be.

The Bilderbergs? HAHAHAHAH. They're just a front to keep the Five Jew Bankers from finding out we have the spear of Poseidon.

Besides, there is about 13 ritualistic murders between you and the good stuff, neophyte. Get to stabbin'.

Not again....
[25.media.tumblr.com image 238x289]


i13.photobucket.com

Excellent work, Mort Vader.
 
2013-05-23 01:38:32 AM  

Z1P2: miss diminutive: Remind me never to travel to New York as a black person.

Or as any person that values things like, their rights.

If you're Black and are also armed, you may as well report directly to prison or to the morgue--they choose which one (you may luck out and get both!).  The police are arresting scores of individuals (travelers/tourists mostly) who are acting in good faith and trying to comply with the law, but when they seek information (even if they possess valid gun registration as well as permits to carry from out of state) and admit to being in possession of a weapon, they are immediately arrested and face a hefty fine and up to three years in the state pen.  Hunters on their way to shooting pheasants in South Dakota end up serving three years in Attica for merely changing planes at La Guardia?   Ah......apparently..........that could happen and probably has many times.  Their draconian laws have yet to be challenged, or at least that's my understanding.

 
2013-05-23 04:55:31 AM  

tinfoil-hat maggie: You will learn to like it citizen....


Sorry to harsh your mellow by pointing out the intelligent thing to do, until Terry is revisited they are allowed to do this and a person who actually thought past the next bowl would realize that carrying your herb around in a good way to get busted
 
2013-05-23 04:58:30 AM  

OgreMagi: The problem with the Terry Decision is how the police misrepresent the court's findings. The police proclaim it an expansion of power that allows them to search anyone at any time. The fact is the Terry case was a LIMIT on police power, stating the police can only do a warrantless search when there is a very clear possibility of a danger to the police officer while investigating a crime. NYPD has extended this to "we don't like how you look, so we consider that a potential crime. And we are afraid of your looks, which constitutes an immediate threat." Eventually the courts are going to slap the shiat out of NYC for this gross violation of the Constitution.


Exactly and until the courts slap it down they will keep doing it and those who are unable to comprehend that the cops will bust you over your dime bag will continue to get arrested, I find it hard to feel sorry for them when a coherent thought can prevent to Cops from finding your weed upon you.
 
2013-05-23 05:02:23 AM  

redmid17: Congratulations, you graduated to the "It's okay to violate laws it people get arrested" school of thought. At this rate, you might hit 8th grade civics before you die.


Congratulations you have no reading comprehension! Until the Terry Decision is revisited and changed the only ones violating laws are those the Cops bust, You might try a Civic class to learn about how this works.

The Constitution and Supreme Court, how do they work?
 
2013-05-23 06:08:55 AM  

Azlefty: redmid17: Congratulations, you graduated to the "It's okay to violate laws it people get arrested" school of thought. At this rate, you might hit 8th grade civics before you die.

Congratulations you have no reading comprehension! Until the Terry Decision is revisited and changed the only ones violating laws are those the Cops bust, You might try a Civic class to learn about how this works.

The Constitution and Supreme Court, how do they work?


The Terry decision needs to be obeyed more than it needs to be changed.  It's pretty simple and reasonable.

Police can stop and question a citizen only if they have a reasonable, articulable suspicion that the citizen has, is, or is about to commit a crime.

Police can frisk a citizen only when they have a reasonable suspicion that the citizen bears a weapon that poses a threat to officer safety.

The NYPD is totally ignoring the Terry decision's constraints.  What we need is a ginormous damages award against NYC and a tight leash on the NYPD held by the DoJ.

For example, 532K stops were conducted in 2012 and 476K (89%) resulted in no summons or arrest.  "Furtive movement" is the most common reason given, in over half of stops.  It  seems a lot of suspicions may have been unreasonable and inarticulate.

55.8% of 2012's stops led to frisks, but only 2% of frisks produced weapons.  Compared to other "racial" groups, blacks and Latinos were far more likely to be frisked and far less likely to be found with weapons..

Only about 8.5% of frisks produced any contraband including weapons and weed.

The ACLU's report makes my blood boil.  It provides a lot of good fodder for informed discussion.

http://www.nyclu.org/files/publications/2012_Report_NYCLU_0.pdf
 
2013-05-23 08:23:46 AM  

cman: HOLY CRAP look at the minority to white ratio.

This policy is complete madness.

They are targeting minorities.



Look, it's not the cop's fault that minorities look more suspicious.
 
2013-05-23 09:00:02 AM  
Wow.  Not in the south.  Feature that.
 
2013-05-23 09:27:28 AM  

Azlefty: redmid17: Congratulations, you graduated to the "It's okay to violate laws it people get arrested" school of thought. At this rate, you might hit 8th grade civics before you die.

Congratulations you have no reading comprehension! Until the Terry Decision is revisited and changed the only ones violating laws are those the Cops bust, You might try a Civic class to learn about how this works.

The Constitution and Supreme Court, how do they work?


Jesus you're an idiot. Just because you type things on the Internet doesn't make them true. Actually learn what Terry allows before you open your mouth again. It'll keep you from further embarrassing yourself.
 
2013-05-23 11:15:33 AM  

untaken_name: Dafatone: OgreMagi: gilgigamesh: Remember everyone: racism is dead and gone, and you're the real racist for looking at statistics that clearly demonstrate otherwise.

Black cops are involved.  Is it still racism when a block cop profiles a black youth?

...yes?

Discrimination isn't always racism, nor is it always bad. Which of the following groups would you *not* cross the street to avoid?

[static.flickr.com image 500x375]

[www.streetgangs.com image 360x240]
[us.123rf.com image 400x267]

[ronepraisecleveland.files.wordpress.com image 600x399]

That's discrimination. But it isn't racist.


Probably just the Hispanic ones, maybe the white guys with guns as well, the Asian crips up top? Probably not. And the black guys? Definitely not unless I have my black friend with me, he can be confrontational.
 
2013-05-23 05:26:32 PM  

Azlefty: redmid17: Congratulations, you graduated to the "It's okay to violate laws it people get arrested" school of thought. At this rate, you might hit 8th grade civics before you die.

Congratulations you have no reading comprehension! Until the Terry Decision is revisited and changed the only ones violating laws are those the Cops bust, You might try a Civic class to learn about how this works.

The Constitution and Supreme Court, how do they work?


Terry doesn't need to be revisited.  The court was very clear about it being a LIMITATION on police powers.  What needs to happen is the police need to be reminded of this fact.
 
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