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(NBC New York)   13 NJ TGI Fridays accused of selling well drinks labeled as premium brands, also not wearing enough flair   (nbcnewyork.com) divider line 154
    More: Asinine, customer complaint, premiums, Marlboro, New Jersey  
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4992 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2013 at 4:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 07:59:38 PM

mjohnson71: theorellior: God, just the mention of Grey Goose in this thread and already I'm imagining the smell of Axe and hearing the "'Sup, bro?" greetings.

Not as much with Grey Goose. Totally with Three Olives.


I believe you are missing Hennessy.
 
2013-05-22 08:01:09 PM

Voiceofreason01: NASAM:
Crown is not top shelf.  Crown is garbage.

and Johnny Walker Blue is only for neophytes who don't have an extensive knowledge of the best single malt scotch.

/don't be that guy


Blue label is a blended whiskey. Not single-malt.
 
2013-05-22 08:04:22 PM

DrBrownCow: Back in my early 20s an older friend of mine didn't believe a person could tell the difference between vodkas of varying quality.  This, I think, was what he told himself to justify the swill he had been stocking his liquor cabinet with for years.  He was a research scientist, so  he arranged a double-blind taste test with four vodkas and six glasses.   All I knew was that each vodka was represented at least once.    I correctly identified most of them by smell before I tasted, and then I correctly identified the rest by taste.   In theory, it is all the same stuff.  In practice, the premium brands do a much better job of filtering out impurities.

As for the "don't use mixers with premium liquors" attitude, this works fine if you can't tell the difference.  For everyone else, I can't imagine not being able to immediately identify/smell a bourbon and coke made with Old Crow or Early Times.  Even Jim Beam (white label) is an improvement, and further improvements can be made with a slight step up to bourbons such as Elijah Craig, Bulleit, Wild Turkey, and Buffalo Trace.   Jim Beam Black Label is an excellent bourbon to mix with coke considering both price and complementary flavors.   Beyond that level I agree money and (subtle flavors) are being wasted.


Beer drinker here, but Black on ice with just enough Coke to darken it is *spectacular*

/and a good way to get me 0-60. Good times, good times.
 
2013-05-22 08:05:16 PM

Voiceofreason01: NASAM:
Crown is not top shelf.  Crown is garbage.

and Johnny Walker Blue is only for neophytes who don't have an extensive knowledge of the best single malt scotch.

/don't be that guy


So then Dewars right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure its Dewars we're talking about.
 
2013-05-22 08:13:23 PM

unyon: The very idea of a premium vodka is a joke.  Vodka is the absence of flavour.  The best vodka is pure ethanol.


I would agree but you really don't want to drink pure ethanol.  Tito's is my fave and arguably the purest ethanol/water mixture out there not from a lab.
 
2013-05-22 08:36:46 PM

Thingster: Beer drinker here, but Black on ice with just enough Coke to darken it is *spectacular*


Maybe people can't distinguish between bourbons once they are in a cocktail because they mix bourbon into Coke instead of splashing some Coke into their bourbon.
 
2013-05-22 08:49:23 PM

EvilEgg: If you are paying for top shelf in your mixed drink, you deserve what you get.


To shelf in a martini (whether gin or vodka) makes a big difference.  Top shelf in a girl drink is stupid.  Only an idiot pays for Stoli and cranberry juice.
 
2013-05-22 09:06:25 PM

Amberwind: I have trouble telling the difference between Bombay and Tanqueray,


I never would have thought I could either until my mom ordered Tanqueray and her husband ordered Bombay. Tanqueray was way sweeter.

or between Jim and Jack.

Those aren't even the same kind of whiskey! One is a bourbon and the other one is an original TN concoction.
 
2013-05-22 09:30:09 PM

DrBrownCow: Thingster: Beer drinker here, but Black on ice with just enough Coke to darken it is *spectacular*

Maybe people can't distinguish between bourbons once they are in a cocktail because they mix bourbon into Coke instead of splashing some Coke into their bourbon.


I wouldn't argue, it's a big reason I'm not a mixed drink drinker at bars. There should only be enough mixer to take the edge off of the liquor or to compliment the flavor.

A bourbon and Coke should NEVER be served as a shot over ice in a tumbler topped with Coke.
 
2013-05-22 09:46:33 PM
ecmoRandomNumbers:

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Fleischmann's is disgusting. There's not a mix in the world that can fix the taste of Seagram's or Fleischmann's.

I used to think Fleischmann's tasted like an alternative car fuel, back when I drank.  But that didn't stop me.
 
2013-05-22 10:27:47 PM
Farkers can get a cheeseburger anywhere. They come to TGIFridays for the atmosphere and the attitude.
 
2013-05-22 10:29:09 PM

BarkingUnicorn: ecmoRandomNumbers:

I just threw up in my mouth a little. Fleischmann's is disgusting. There's not a mix in the world that can fix the taste of Seagram's or Fleischmann's.

I used to think Fleischmann's tasted like an alternative car fuel, back when I drank.  But that didn't stop me.


As "alternative car fuel" is ethanol, just like all "beverage alcohol" (like Fleischmann's), you were correct.
 
2013-05-22 10:43:25 PM

mjohnson71: basemetal: EvilEgg: If you are paying for top shelf in your mixed drink, you deserve what you get.

Meh, if you want to drink yours straight, go for it.  Myself, if I want some tonic and a lime with my Bombay Sapphire, that's my own damned business.

/and bartenders, I can tell the difference and will send it back

Same here with Tanqueray. Rail gin is horrible swill and I can tell the difference.


You think that stuff is bad, you should try the Dutch/Belgian Jeniver. It tastes like bathtub gin, but it's all the rage there.
 
2013-05-22 10:47:50 PM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: meathome: /and anyone who has actually formally trained to be behind a bar would know that.

Hey bartender! What'djya learn in school?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVSb1AXTyuk">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=PVSb1AXTyuk

Now THAT may be obscure
 
2013-05-22 10:48:35 PM
Nice job youtube, farked up the link. Anyhow, it should work
 
2013-05-22 10:52:42 PM

meathome: Treygreen13: I think most places where they'd get a martini wrong aren't a good place to order one. But I've had that problem before. Nice place, lots of "craft cocktails" and when I ask for a martini they start to reach for the vodka. Then they get all indignant when I tell them I want a gin martini. "You should have specified." Uh, no.

If that is the default reaction to one of the most standard cocktails, then that person shouldn't be permitted to tend bar.

/and anyone who has actually formally trained to be behind a bar would know that.


Not at party bars. Serious bars with serious drinkers go for gin, party bars catering to 20-somethings know vodka is on order, and any serious drinker is only present to pick up an intoxicated 20-something.
 
2013-05-23 12:02:49 AM

berylman: unyon: The very idea of a premium vodka is a joke.  Vodka is the absence of flavour.  The best vodka is pure ethanol.

I would agree but you really don't want to drink pure ethanol.  Tito's is my fave and arguably the purest ethanol/water mixture out there not from a lab.


If you are in Texas, give Dripping Springs a try sometime. Or my new favorite, Cinco (from San Antonio). Dripping Springs is generally at the same price point as Tito's, but even smoother. And Cinco martinis with just a hint of vermouth and olive are near perfect. Central Texas well water FTW.

/this post brought to you by a former Texan bartender.
 
2013-05-23 12:07:29 AM
You know, the Nazis had pieces of flair that they made the Jews wear.
 
2013-05-23 12:29:36 AM
I live in NJ, and am only a few minutes drive from one of these places. I've actually eaten at two of them, but never had any drinks. If they keep their liquorlicenses I'll be shocked, and since their bars are pretty much their feature... yeah, they're screwed.

/I feel like going in with a copy of the article and demanding a refund regardless.
 
2013-05-23 01:00:09 AM

basemetal: Gabrielmot: basemetal: EvilEgg: If you are paying for top shelf in your mixed drink, you deserve what you get.

Meh, if you want to drink yours straight, go for it.  Myself, if I want some tonic and a lime with my Bombay Sapphire, that's my own damned business.

/and bartenders, I can tell the difference and will send it back

You probably can (I can for sure) - incidentally try Citadelle if you like Bombay Sapphire...

*BUT* most people can't.

If it was vodka, or some other spirit, I wouldn't know the difference, but I have had to tell a bartender to open the new bottle because that's not Bombay.  (a couple of times my buddy and I both looked at each other and told the waitress, that's not Sapphire).

/will try the Citadelle


Hold the phone, did not mythbustrs run cheap vodka through a Brita filter and it was the same as "top" shelf
 
2013-05-23 01:31:38 AM

berylman: unyon: The very idea of a premium vodka is a joke.  Vodka is the absence of flavour.  The best vodka is pure ethanol.

I would agree but you really don't want to drink pure ethanol.  Tito's is my fave and arguably the purest ethanol/water mixture out there not from a lab.


Not unless you want to go blind, no.  And definitely don't drink ethanol while smoking.  But I'm not much of a vodka drinker other than in the occasional caesar or screwdriver.  It's good to make other drinks boozy, but I find it pretty disinteresting compared to whiskey.
 
2013-05-23 02:48:01 AM

trippdogg: unyon: factoryconnection: EvilEgg: If you are paying for top shelf in your mixed drink, you deserve what you get.

Exactly.  The only way you can pass off Evan Williams black-label as Woodford Reserve is when it is mixed with Coke.

DRTFA, but knowing Jersey and TGIF clientele, I'm thinking that it was probably Fleischmann's Vodka and sprite instead of Grey Goose and sprite, as if anyone could tell the difference.  In fact, I've heard Kirkland-brand Vodka and Grey Goose are distilled in the same place.

The very idea of a premium vodka is a joke.  Vodka is the absence of flavour.  The best vodka is pure ethanol.

This!   By law, Vodka is allowed to contain only ethanol and water.  Any difference in taste is caused by trace levels of stuff like ethyl acetate, ethyl lactate and fusel oils.  In other words, the more you can taste the difference, the more rotgut it is (albeit, expensive rotgut).


For fark's sake, there's more nonsense in this post than I can even address. Suffice to say, you don't know what you're talking about.

Properly made vodka has a flavor. Potato vodka tastes like potatoes. Corn vodka tastes like corn. Cane vodka tastes like sugar cane. shiatty vodka tastes like fusel oils because cheap, money-grubbing distillers don't separate the heads and tails from the heart of the distillation. Get a bottle of Boyd and Blair. It tastes like potatoes, because it's farking MADE FROM POTATOES. Distilling to 192 proof is not enough to remove that flavor.

Vodka is NOT, nor is it supposed to be, water and pure ethanol. Stop posting this crap.
 
2013-05-23 02:49:08 AM
Mixed with coke I cant really tell Jack from a well drink. If Im ordering it on the rocks not mixed with nothing I can tell well from Jack from gentleman Jack from Single barrel.
 
2013-05-23 03:07:29 AM

unyon: berylman: unyon: The very idea of a premium vodka is a joke.  Vodka is the absence of flavour.  The best vodka is pure ethanol.

I would agree but you really don't want to drink pure ethanol.  Tito's is my fave and arguably the purest ethanol/water mixture out there not from a lab.

Not unless you want to go blind, no.  And definitely don't drink ethanol while smoking.  But I'm not much of a vodka drinker other than in the occasional caesar or screwdriver.  It's good to make other drinks boozy, but I find it pretty disinteresting compared to whiskey.


Much like most of what you've said in this thread, this is annoyingly incorrect.

Ethanol does not cause blindness. Methanol, which is sometimes produced during ethanol distillation, causes blindness because of formic acid formation in the liver. Seriously, if you insist on spouting off about spirits, at least get your shiat straight.
 
2013-05-23 03:18:48 AM

jaylectricity: Amberwind: I have trouble telling the difference between Bombay and Tanqueray,

I never would have thought I could either until my mom ordered Tanqueray and her husband ordered Bombay. Tanqueray was way sweeter.

or between Jim and Jack.

Those aren't even the same kind of whiskey! One is a bourbon and the other one is an original TN concoction.


Jack Daniel's is bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 03:44:39 AM

factoryconnection: EvilEgg: If you are paying for top shelf in your mixed drink, you deserve what you get.

Exactly.  The only way you can pass off Evan Williams black-label as Woodford Reserve is when it is mixed with Coke.

DRTFA, but knowing Jersey and TGIF clientele, I'm thinking that it was probably Fleischmann's Vodka and sprite instead of Grey Goose and sprite, as if anyone could tell the difference.  In fact, I've heard Kirkland-brand Vodka and Grey Goose are distilled in the same place.


A lot of different bourbons are distilled at the same place. They just use different mash bills, etc. for different brands. Not every distillery will tell you the brands they make besides their flagship label, but you can tell who distills it by what town it comes from. For instance, if the label says it comes from Bardstown, Ky, it's distilled at Heaven Hill. If it says Clermont, it's Jim Beam. If it's Frankfort, it's Buffalo Trace. If it's Lawrenceburg, it's either Four Roses or Wild Turkey. Some of the bourbon distillers also do other spirits. A lot of them do vodkas in addition to bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 03:45:39 AM

Z-clipped: jaylectricity: Amberwind: I have trouble telling the difference between Bombay and Tanqueray,

I never would have thought I could either until my mom ordered Tanqueray and her husband ordered Bombay. Tanqueray was way sweeter.

or between Jim and Jack.

Those aren't even the same kind of whiskey! One is a bourbon and the other one is an original TN concoction.

Jack Daniel's is bourbon.


No it is not, the govt says if its charcoal filtered its American Whisky not boubon, it HAS to be NON FILTERED by law to be bourbon. It is a violation of federal liquor laws to advertise filtered as bourbon or non filtered as whiskey. Philistine.
 
2013-05-23 07:12:27 AM
This thread needs more Brian:

i4.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-23 08:06:50 AM
I don't normally drink whiskey, but when I do
I sip Shackleton
I almost always drink vodak
any vodak will do
 
2013-05-23 09:29:09 AM

Z-clipped: jaylectricity: Amberwind: I have trouble telling the difference between Bombay and Tanqueray,

I never would have thought I could either until my mom ordered Tanqueray and her husband ordered Bombay. Tanqueray was way sweeter.

or between Jim and Jack.

Those aren't even the same kind of whiskey! One is a bourbon and the other one is an original TN concoction.

Jack Daniel's is bourbon.


Jack is Tennesee Whiskey. It is specifically, and legally, *not* Bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 11:22:51 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Z-clipped: jaylectricity: Amberwind: I have trouble telling the difference between Bombay and Tanqueray,

I never would have thought I could either until my mom ordered Tanqueray and her husband ordered Bombay. Tanqueray was way sweeter.

or between Jim and Jack.

Those aren't even the same kind of whiskey! One is a bourbon and the other one is an original TN concoction.

Jack Daniel's is bourbon.

Jack is Tennesee Whiskey. It is specifically, and legally, *not* Bourbon.


By law Tennessee whiskey qualifies as bourbon.

Tennessee whiskey doesn't have a legal definition, and up to the point of filtering the process is identical to bourbon.

So since the bourbon definition doesn't preclude filtering, Tennessee whiskey is a filtered bourbon.

The whole, "A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square," concept.
 
2013-05-23 11:24:42 AM

Thingster: By law Tennessee whiskey qualifies as bourbon.

Tennessee whiskey doesn't have a legal definition, and up to the point of filtering the process is identical to bourbon.

So since the bourbon definition doesn't preclude filtering, Tennessee whiskey is a filtered bourbon.

The whole, "A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square," concept.


By law, Jack is not Bourbon. One of the legal requirements for Bourbon is that is contains no additives. The Government considers charcoal filtering to be an additive. You are wrong. It's as simple as that.
 
2013-05-23 11:36:31 AM

Oldiron_79: it HAS to be NON FILTERED by law to be bourbon.


Wrong.  There are no filtration requirements for bourbon under NAFTA.  Filtration also has nothing to do with a whiskey being "Tennessee Whiskey".  You're talking out of your ass.

The requirements for bourbon are:

At least 51% corn
Distilled no further than 160 proof
Aged in new oak
Goes into the barrel at no more than 125 proof
Bottled at no less than 80 proof

That's it.

Gecko Gingrich: Jack is Tennesee Whiskey. It is specifically, and legally, *not* Bourbon.


Incorrect.  All Tennessee whiskey is bourbon. In fact, it's HAS to be bourbon to be called Tennessee Whiskey.  It's just further classified as "bourbon made in Tennessee", because a few whiskey producers in Tennessee like to think they're special.  Jack Daniel's can write "Pure Tennessee Unicorn Piss" on their bottles if they want to-  they're still making farking bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 11:38:26 AM

Gecko Gingrich: By law, Jack is not Bourbon. One of the legal requirements for Bourbon is that is contains no additives.


Also wrong.  Many other bourbons are filtered after distillation.  They're still bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 11:42:21 AM

Gecko Gingrich: Thingster: By law Tennessee whiskey qualifies as bourbon.

Tennessee whiskey doesn't have a legal definition, and up to the point of filtering the process is identical to bourbon.

So since the bourbon definition doesn't preclude filtering, Tennessee whiskey is a filtered bourbon.

The whole, "A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square," concept.

By law, Jack is not Bourbon. One of the legal requirements for Bourbon is that is contains no additives. The Government considers charcoal filtering to be an additive. You are wrong. It's as simple as that.


Title 27, ch1, pt5, sec. 5.22 (b)(1)(I)

Says go fark yourself. Be damn sure you're right before flat telling someone they're wrong.
 
2013-05-23 11:44:58 AM
Alcohol for export has different regs than alcohol for domestic consumption. What's "Bourbon" in the Philippians may not be "Bourbon" in the US. In the US, Jack is not Bourbon.
 
2013-05-23 11:47:28 AM

Thingster: Says go fark yourself. Be damn sure you're right before flat telling someone they're wrong.


It's amazing the amount of bullshiat people "KNOW" about spirits.
 
2013-05-23 11:54:33 AM

Gecko Gingrich: In the US, Jack is not Bourbon.


Wrong.  You're wrong under NAFTA, which specifically states that Tennessee Whiskey MUST be straight bourbon, and you're wrong under US Federal law, which doesn't define Tennessee whiskey at all.

No offense intended here, but I've probably been selling Jack Daniel's longer than you've been wiping your own ass, and several of my friends are professional distillers.  Stop posting this crap.  You don't know what you're talking about.

/also, I don't live in the Philippines, I just haven't updated my profile in a while
 
2013-05-23 12:09:09 PM

Thingster: Tennessee whiskey is a filtered bourbon.


And not even all Tennessee whiskey is charcoal filtered.  Pritchard's doesn't filter at all.  I know this because Phillip came to give a talk at one of my restaurants, and I asked him.
 
2013-05-23 12:13:06 PM
Yeah, I caught that on reread.

I blame it on trying to outrun the flood of [citation needed] that I heard coming around the bend.
 
2013-05-23 12:20:59 PM

Z-clipped: No offense intended here, but I've probably been selling Jack Daniel's longer than you've been wiping your own ass, and several of my friends are professional distillers.


Link
 
2013-05-23 12:25:20 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Z-clipped: No offense intended here, but I've probably been selling Jack Daniel's longer than you've been wiping your own ass, and several of my friends are professional distillers.

Link


" Appeals to accomplishment are fallacies only when they are simple appeals to authority. It is not fallacious to rely on the testimony of a person who has attained a certain level of education or experience if they can produce further evidence to back up their positions when required."

You could ask him questions based upon his experiences to determine if this is a simple appeal to authority, but that would take admitting you were in error.

Can't have that.
 
2013-05-23 12:45:21 PM
 
2013-05-23 12:51:18 PM
Oh, and I worked bars for years, both behind them and managing them. I worked in the liquor distribution industry for years more. I've had dinner with Bill Samuels and his family.
 
2013-05-23 12:51:33 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Z-clipped: No offense intended here, but I've probably been selling Jack Daniel's longer than you've been wiping your own ass, and several of my friends are professional distillers.

Link


Yeah, except I wasn't backing up an argument with that information.  I was just giving you some friendly advice:  this is one of my fields of expertise, and I have informational resources at my disposal that most people don't.

THIS is a citation that proves my point:

North American Free Trade Agreement
Chapter 3 - Annex 307.3 to Annex 315


Annex 313: Distinctive Products


1. Canada and Mexico shall recognize Bourbon Whiskey and Tennessee Whiskey, which is a straight Bourbon Whiskey authorized to be produced only in the State of Tennessee, as distinctive products of the United States. Accordingly, Canada and Mexico shall not permit the sale of any product as Bourbon Whiskey or Tennessee Whiskey, unless it has been manufactured in the United States in accordance with the laws and regulations of the United States governing the manufacture of Bourbon Whiskey and Tennessee Whiskey.

Next, you can feel free to point out where in the federal Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits the word "Tennessee" appears.  (You can't, because it doesn't.)

Face it.  You bought a bunch of malarky that some stupid pedant bar fly tried to pass off as an explanation for why Jack bottles don't say "bourbon" on them.  They don't say "bourbon" because the guys at Jack Daniel's want you to think their whiskey is somehow special and different.  It's not.  Now stop making shiat up (charcoal filtering is an additive, are you farking serious?) and trying to toss logical fallacy definitions at me.  And especially, stop correcting people who say that Jack is bourbon because they're right and you're wrong.
 
2013-05-23 12:53:52 PM

Gecko Gingrich: it has added color and flavor from the charcoal.


No it farking does not.  Charcoal filtering is used by many many companies (including many bourbon producers) to REMOVE color and flavor from spirits.
 
2013-05-23 12:57:11 PM

Gecko Gingrich: NAFTA:


For fark's sake, it says right in YOUR NAFTA quote that TN whiskey is bourbon, and you're STILL arguing with me.   WTF is wrong with you?
 
2013-05-23 12:59:16 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Oh, and I worked bars for years, both behind them and managing them.


Then you should know better.
 
2013-05-23 01:03:37 PM

Z-clipped: Charcoal filtering is used by many many companies (including many bourbon producers) to REMOVE color and flavor from spirits.


Jack's charcoal is made from Maple. Maple is not Oak. Bourbon's requirements include aging in charred Oak. That charred Oak adds flavor, as does charred Maple.

Z-clipped: For fark's sake, it says right in YOUR NAFTA quote that TN whiskey is bourbon, and you're STILL arguing with me. WTF is wrong with you?


I'm arguing that Jack doesn't meet the NAFTA required definition of Tennessee Whisky.
 
2013-05-23 01:22:34 PM

Gecko Gingrich: Z-clipped: Charcoal filtering is used by many many companies (including many bourbon producers) to REMOVE color and flavor from spirits.

Jack's charcoal is made from Maple. Maple is not Oak. Bourbon's requirements include aging in charred Oak. That charred Oak adds flavor, as does charred Maple.

Z-clipped: For fark's sake, it says right in YOUR NAFTA quote that TN whiskey is bourbon, and you're STILL arguing with me. WTF is wrong with you?

I'm arguing that Jack doesn't meet the NAFTA required definition of Tennessee Whisky.


images.sodahead.com

So now "it's not oak?"...  Dude... you are SO full of it.  You're obviously finally getting off your ass and doing some research if you know that JD uses maple chips, so maybe you can read up a little more.  (Not that Wiki is a definitive resource, but at least it's annotated.)

Charcoal (of any type) is not a flavoring or coloring additive in this world or any other.  LC Process does not affect whether a whiskey can be called bourbon.  Almost all bourbon is filtered, much of it using charcoal.  You're obviously too stubborn to admit you're wrong, even in the face of clear evidence.  I'm not really interested in watching a contortionist show at this point, so I'm done here.

Whatever else it may wish to call itself, Jack Daniel's IS bourbon.  Period.
 
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