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(BBC)   Cadet soldier butchered on London street by terrorists - who then hang around the body, ask the public to film them, and are then shot by police   ( bbc.co.uk) divider line
    More: Sick, Woolwich, security service, Help for Heroes, Home Secretary  
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15965 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2013 at 3:34 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



360 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-05-22 03:34:48 PM  
Pretty farking brutal and evil.
 
2013-05-22 03:35:53 PM  
Religion of Peace
 
2013-05-22 03:36:05 PM  
"strong indications that it is a terrorist incident"

Aw, I'm sorry. You didn't say "terrorist act" that'll be 9 months of scandal.
 
2013-05-22 03:36:50 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-22 03:36:54 PM  
I'm sure mere bullets won't stop The Kurgan
 
2013-05-22 03:37:15 PM  
Wow. I thought only US cops shot people for filming them.
 
2013-05-22 03:37:21 PM  

James!: "strong indications that it is a terrorist incident"

Aw, I'm sorry. You didn't say "terrorist act" that'll be 9 months of scandal.


Came here to say basically the same thing, but insinuate that the English are too smart and too decent for that.
 
2013-05-22 03:37:23 PM  
False flag
 
2013-05-22 03:38:07 PM  
shiat, how did I not immediately go for the Highlander angle.

StrikitRich: I'm sure mere bullets won't stop The Kurgan


You farking win, sir.
 
2013-05-22 03:38:27 PM  
He used a meat cleaver. Who does he think he is? A chinese gangster?
 
2013-05-22 03:39:30 PM  

weapon13: He used a meat cleaver. Who does he think he is? A chinese gangster?


Guns are hard to come by in the UK. Even their Olympic shooting team has to leave the country to practice.
 
2013-05-22 03:39:40 PM  
Apologizing to the women who had to see it? How chivalrous of him. Also "Eye for an eye" was originally meant to PREVENT deaths because it was about avoiding disproportionate retribution. Good God, what an evil lunatic.
 
2013-05-22 03:40:09 PM  
It's only shocking if you don't understand the world outside of your own border.
 
2013-05-22 03:40:16 PM  
Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peaces
/ftfy
 
2013-05-22 03:40:18 PM  
The footage shown on the ITV website shows a man, speaking to the camera, saying: "We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

Well OK, if that is what you want. The UK, and its friends, have some pretty big meat cleavers of their own.
 
2013-05-22 03:40:19 PM  
From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'
 
2013-05-22 03:40:23 PM  
Nothing to be outraged about here, Liberals. He wasn't white and he didn't use a gun.
 
2013-05-22 03:40:32 PM  
...So kick the Jews out of Occupied Palestine!
 
2013-05-22 03:40:47 PM  
Another Cobra meeting will be held on Thursday morning

What a Cobra meeting might look like:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-22 03:40:51 PM  

ChipNASA: Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peaces
/ftfy


PIECES
/ftfm
 
2013-05-22 03:40:58 PM  
Time for an assault knife ban.
 
2013-05-22 03:41:02 PM  
At a meeting of the government's emergency response committee, Cobra, it was decided to tighten security at Woolwich and other barracks in London

Oh, sure, put Cobra in charge. That will stop terrorism.

/knowing is half the battle
 
GBB
2013-05-22 03:41:23 PM  

RenownedCurator: Apologizing to the women who had to see it? How chivalrous of him. Also "Eye for an eye" was originally meant to PREVENT deaths because it was about avoiding disproportionate retribution. Good God, what an evil lunatic.


If you're going to have a "golden rule", someone has to inforce it.
 
2013-05-22 03:41:36 PM  
Good thing they didn't have guns!

Otherwise they might have killed someone!
 
2013-05-22 03:41:46 PM  
oh jesus
 
2013-05-22 03:42:07 PM  
And youtube already has a video up......NSFW  NSFW   NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M#!
 
2013-05-22 03:42:10 PM  
And Jose Canseco is being investigated for sexual assault, everyone is getting head today.
 
2013-05-22 03:43:00 PM  

lennavan: What a Cobra meeting might look like:


cartoonoveranalyzations.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-22 03:43:40 PM  
May the police bullets have left them paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their miserable lives.

/Can we have draw and quarter back please?
 
2013-05-22 03:43:51 PM  
the real butchering was of the English language in TFA.
Who wrote that shait?
or did they just throw cut out word magnets at a screen?
That was horrible.

It's as if it was written by a monkey with a typewriter.
 
2013-05-22 03:44:10 PM  
From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.
 
2013-05-22 03:44:19 PM  
Cadet solider? Is that like ROTC?
 
2013-05-22 03:44:31 PM  

vernonFL: lennavan: What a Cobra meeting might look like:

[cartoonoveranalyzations.files.wordpress.com image 400x308]


l.yimg.com
 
GBB
2013-05-22 03:44:35 PM  

YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'


t0.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-22 03:44:51 PM  
"I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same.

In your land women have to deal with a lot worse.
 
2013-05-22 03:44:56 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-22 03:45:06 PM  
And exactly WHERE was Obama?  Doing nothing...AGAIN!
 
2013-05-22 03:45:16 PM  

Beerguy: And youtube already has a video up......NSFW  NSFW   NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M#!


Ah damn, after watching that video I feel bad for farkin around in the thread.

/It wasn't really that NSFW though.
 
2013-05-22 03:45:27 PM  
The Brits are working with Cobra and then calling other people terrorists?

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-22 03:46:09 PM  
Still in denial about the death cult? How many more do they have to kill before people will wake up to the threat this death cult brings with it?
 
2013-05-22 03:46:20 PM  
damn you rightwing religious nuts.

do as that rightwing nut did in notre dame instead.

/Meanwhile in Florida, some guy still recovering after a bath-salts-head ate part of his face.
//whars the outrage of terrorism from the war on drugs!
 
2013-05-22 03:46:25 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: It's only shocking if you don't understand the world outside of your own border.


Wait, what?
 
2013-05-22 03:46:42 PM  

YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'


Thank you.
That actually read better than TFA.
I see what happened now.

Couple of flipped out druggies whacked a random person and got shot for their assholiness.
Good shoot.
 
2013-05-22 03:46:43 PM  

Fade2black: Nothing to be outraged about here, Liberals. He wasn't white and he didn't use a gun.


Crawl back under your rock.
 
2013-05-22 03:46:54 PM  
Hm.  Presbyterians?
 
2013-05-22 03:47:32 PM  

Fade2black: Nothing to be outraged about here, Liberals. He wasn't white and he didn't use a gun.


2/10.  You'll get some nibbles.
 
2013-05-22 03:48:43 PM  
At the risk of being all Yahoo Comment-like I will not comment
 
2013-05-22 03:49:20 PM  

lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.


www.vote29.com
 
2013-05-22 03:49:32 PM  

gadian: James!: "strong indications that it is a terrorist incident"

Aw, I'm sorry. You didn't say "terrorist act" that'll be 9 months of scandal.

Came here to say basically the same thing, but insinuate that the English are too smart and too decent for that.


Yes, too smart and too decent.  Right.  Followed UK politics at all?  Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?
 
2013-05-22 03:49:47 PM  

vudukungfu: YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'

Thank you.
That actually read better than TFA.
I see what happened now.

Couple of flipped out druggies whacked a random person and got shot for their assholiness.
Good shoot.


hey, no sweat, been waiting a while for a thread so I could post that, eyewitness reports aren't always any better than news company releases but in this case it mentions a few things that are still being unreported, such as it being a beheading.
Friends in London are worried about a night of rioting now.
 
2013-05-22 03:49:49 PM  
That's nuts.
 
2013-05-22 03:50:22 PM  
Wow.  When I read the headline, I thought that this was some kind of charity pig roast or something.  This is simply awful.  Best wishes to all involved.
 
2013-05-22 03:51:09 PM  
Beyond barbaric. It was the act of base animals. Nothing human to see there.
 
2013-05-22 03:51:51 PM  

dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?


I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.
 
2013-05-22 03:51:55 PM  

lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.


There wasn't even a political motivation - this was "retribution" for a slight, not a "protest" seeking some reform or change.

// it's only terrorism because one of "them" did it
 
2013-05-22 03:52:19 PM  

fireclown: Wow.  When I read the headline, I thought that this was some kind of charity pig roast or something.  This is simply awful.  Best wishes to all involved.


Not to the suspects.  They should be fed nothing but pig entrails.
 
2013-05-22 03:53:03 PM  
"Terrorists" makes it sound like an organized group, rather than the lone nutjob that it was. It's the difference between "gang beats up teenager" and "guy beats up teenager." Please make sure you get it right in the future subby.
 
2013-05-22 03:53:06 PM  

Beerguy: And youtube already has a video up......NSFW  NSFW   NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M#!


stupid farking announcer talking over the guy on film !!! what  a dick ! shut up asshole and let us hear the video  !!

anybody got unmolested footage link ?
 
2013-05-22 03:55:43 PM  

Savage Belief: Wow. I thought only US cops shot people for filming them.


Here buddy, you could really use this.

/Just trying to help.
 
2013-05-22 03:56:41 PM  
Those two muslims must have watched one hell of a video to be that mad.
 
2013-05-22 03:56:43 PM  

Moosecakes: "Terrorists" makes it sound like an organized group, rather than the lone nutjob that it was. It's the difference between "gang beats up teenager" and "guy beats up teenager." Please make sure you get it right in the future subby.


Apparently the government took it as a serious terrorist incident.

Perhaps they thought the nutjob was one of a hundred meat cleaver wielding sleeper robots?
 
2013-05-22 03:57:05 PM  
farking savages
 
2013-05-22 03:57:18 PM  

GBB: YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'

[t0.gstatic.com image 299x168]


WTF did I just read?
 
2013-05-22 03:57:44 PM  
I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0
 
2013-05-22 03:58:50 PM  
LONDONGHAZI!!!!
 
2013-05-22 03:58:51 PM  
Bastards.
 
2013-05-22 03:59:11 PM  

bigwf2007: Cadet solider? Is that like ROTC?


Yeah, basically the British version of it.
 
2013-05-22 03:59:16 PM  
As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.
 
2013-05-22 03:59:32 PM  
27.media.tumblr.com

"...and stay outta Woolwich"!
 
2013-05-22 03:59:46 PM  

weapon13: He used a meat cleaver. Who does he think he is? A chinese gangster?


Or a guy playing Diablo...
 
2013-05-22 03:59:50 PM  

Dr Dreidel: lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.

There wasn't even a political motivation - this was "retribution" for a slight, not a "protest" seeking some reform or change.

// it's only terrorism because one of "them" did it


Check out BBC. They've got video of the guy standing there with the meat cleaver, blood on his hands, body in the middle of the street, saying it was terrorism. It's terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:00:30 PM  

Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0


gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?
 
2013-05-22 04:00:44 PM  
soldier

Not terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:01:01 PM  

Politics thread on the main page
d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net
An ancient evil awakens

 
2013-05-22 04:01:13 PM  

fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.


I actually like the idea myself.  It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.
 
2013-05-22 04:01:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: There wasn't even a political motivation - this was "retribution" for a slight, not a "protest" seeking some reform or change.

// it's only terrorism because one of "them" did it


Honest question: Retribution for what slight? A 20 something male being a military cadet in the UK?

FTFA - "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

Seems pretty political to me.

Also FTFA - "According to senior Whitehall sources the people carrying out the attack were heard to say: "Allahu Akbar [God is Great]."

That's been fairly common vernacular among terrorists for a long time.
 
2013-05-22 04:01:44 PM  

James!: shiat, how did I not immediately go for the Highlander angle.

StrikitRich: I'm sure mere bullets won't stop The Kurgan

You farking win, sir.


Bows.  Thanks for the TF
 
2013-05-22 04:02:40 PM  
Don't worry people, Great Britain has already mobilized these guys.
 
2013-05-22 04:03:01 PM  

lockers: Joe Blowme: lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.

[www.vote29.com image 580x357]

And yet just last year two buddies drove around my city, shooting and stabbing black people who were well known racists by there friends and family. But it's only terrorism when muslims do it?  Your beyond a stupid douche.


u mad bro? Truth hurts sometimes.
/so are you a member of teh death cult or just a dhimmi?
 
2013-05-22 04:03:02 PM  

dittybopper: fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.

I actually like the idea myself.  It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.


It would never work for the same reason our presidential debates are awful: pivot.
 
2013-05-22 04:03:43 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peace


Aren't they all?
 
2013-05-22 04:05:00 PM  

Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0


I watched Nicholas Berg get beheaded almost ten years ago and I can never unsee it. I had nightmares for days and to this day it still creeps me out.

I actually work with one of his friends and he says just thinking of what happened to him gives him severe anxiety. We talked about it very briefly but I noticed how upset he got and that was that.
 
2013-05-22 04:05:16 PM  

jst3p: dittybopper: fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.

I actually like the idea myself.  It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.

It would never work for the same reason our presidential debates are awful: pivot.


One could argue it doesn't work in the UK.  Still, it's a neat idea.  At the very least, it helps hold feet to the fire.
 
2013-05-22 04:05:31 PM  

olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.


Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.


We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M# !

This may or may not be NSFW.  It's not really that bad but tastes may vary, so you were warned.  He's talking about the government.  Seems to me he has a political purpose.  I don't think it's wrong to use the word "terrorism" here.  Perhaps since it's only one guy dead and an isolated incident, you believe it's pretty ineffective terrorism.  But it is still terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:05:47 PM  
WHERE'S YOUR DOCTOR WHO NOW?
 
2013-05-22 04:06:22 PM  
at the moment we have nothing to go on, but it's likely something, or someone, radicalized them.
 
2013-05-22 04:07:07 PM  

lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.


Well, since the killers shouted "Allahu Akbar", you can confidently surmise that it was a terrorist nutjob.
 
2013-05-22 04:07:38 PM  
Well.... every time the civilized world almost gets tired enough of the war on terror to give it up, something like this happens. Hope these backward savages enjoy using a snow shovel to clean their children out of the donkey pen because our drones NEVER get tired.
 
GBB
2013-05-22 04:08:17 PM  

TheGogmagog: GBB: YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'

[t0.gstatic.com image 299x168]

WTF did I just read?


upload.wikimedia.org

Breda, I have no clue.
 
2013-05-22 04:08:18 PM  

Katolu: AirForceVet: Fade2black: Nothing to be outraged about here, Liberals. He wasn't white and he didn't use a gun.

Crawl back under your rock.

No shiat, what a dick.


Did I hit a nerve, or hit too close to home?

Wait, wait, here's where I pretend I'm smarmy and say something like "well if he'd had a gun, he'd still be alive, or something along your only joke-of-talking-point.

/it's ok when you guys troll, though.
 
2013-05-22 04:08:52 PM  

olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.


Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.


Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?
 
2013-05-22 04:09:15 PM  

YoOjo: From Twitter user Boya Dee -

 'Ohhhhh myyyy God!!!! I just see a man with his head chopped off right in front of my eyes!

'Oh my God!!!! The way Feds took them out!!! It was a female police officer she come out the whip and just started bussssin shots!!

'Mate ive seen alot of s*** im my time but that has to rank sumwhere in the top 3. I couldnt believe my eyes. That was some movie s***.'

The two black bredas run this white guy over over then hop out the car and start chopping mans head off with machete!!

'People were asking whyyy whyyy they were just saying we've had enough! They looked like they were on sutn! Then they start waving a recolver

'Then boydem turn up!! Woolwich feds didnt want it... They had to wait for armed response.. Helicopters everyting...

'Then thats how u know they were on sutn cos they actually went for armed feds with just two machete and an old rusty lookin revolver

'The first guy goes for the female fed with the machete and she not even ramping she took man out like robocop never seen nutn like it

'Then the next breda try buss off the rusty 45 and it just backfires and blows mans finger clean off... Feds didnt pet to just take him out!!

'These times i was just going to the shop for some fruit and veg and i see all that!'


Anyway don't listen to her coz everyone knows her fanny goes sideways.

i224.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-22 04:09:25 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?


Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\
 
2013-05-22 04:09:31 PM  

jst3p: dittybopper: fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.

I actually like the idea myself.  It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.

It would never work for the same reason our presidential debates are awful: pivot.


Pivot?  I don't get it.

I would like to see some kind of system in place to keep everyone on topic, however.  I have long proposed that my Grand Ma-Ma be allowed to sit in for presidential debates.  If a candidate would be asked a question and answer a completely different question, she would get to give them a slapping.
 
2013-05-22 04:10:25 PM  
A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

The victims in the long run will of course be immigrants as racist, right-wing parties like UKIP try to use this excuse to clamp down on immigration.
 
2013-05-22 04:10:25 PM  

dittybopper: One could argue it doesn't work in the UK. Still, it's a neat idea. At the very least, it helps hold feet to the fire.


Better yet, it forces a PM to have a pretty solid understanding of a wide range of current events.
 
2013-05-22 04:12:56 PM  

fireclown: Wow.  When I read the headline, I thought that this was some kind of charity pig roast or something.  This is simply awful.  Best wishes to all involved.


Um, including the asshat's with the machetes?  Poor platitude placement.
 
2013-05-22 04:13:34 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-22 04:13:42 PM  

Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\


I think I've seen it, the audio is what got me not so much the visual. About ten years ago or so that made its rounds?
 
2013-05-22 04:13:42 PM  

lennavan: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?


Ok, so perhaps I was a little vague in my response. For which I apologise.

I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism. And I wouldn't doubt that the people involved felt some form of ideological motivation to commit this act.

However, I don't really feel like this is much more than some act of some rather troubled people. I don't see this (and I really hope that I am correct) as some big Terrorist plot, but simply some very angry men committing a violent, isolated act. Sadly, this sort of thing happens. Sometimes it's due to a misguided religious fervor, sometimes it's because the voices in thier head told them so. Sometimes both.

Again, while I deplore the act committed here today, I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term, unless it turns out to be some part of a greater plan, which right now I feel is unlikely.
 
2013-05-22 04:13:53 PM  
Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.
 
2013-05-22 04:14:01 PM  

fireclown: jst3p: dittybopper: fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.

I actually like the idea myself. It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.

It would never work for the same reason our presidential debates are awful: pivot.

Pivot? I don't get it.


HAVE A GOAL IN MIND
If you have no idea what you want to achieve, how the hell are you going to know when you've succeeded? Figure out a message that you want to get across and stay on point. When candidates pussyfoot around a subject they look weak and muddle their objective. If you somehow get derailed from your narrative, do what the candidates do - find a word or phrase you can use to pivot the discussion back into an area that serves your position.


http://www.modernman.com/debate-techniques-you-can-actually-use/
 
2013-05-22 04:14:55 PM  
Just soooo relieved it was white guys this time you guys. So happy.
 
2013-05-22 04:15:41 PM  
Yeah, I generally think that genocide is kind of a bad thing but I'm *really* starting to think there are exceptions.
/NUKE Mecca.

shiitehappens.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-22 04:16:07 PM  

super_grass: A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

The victims in the long run will of course be immigrants as racist, right-wing parties like UKIP try to use this excuse to clamp down on immigration.


where the fark have you been for the last 40 year? this is not an isolated incident

/psst islam is not a race, but it is a death cult
//exhibit 112317418976890602349783545 can be found in TFA
 
2013-05-22 04:16:12 PM  

21-7-b: at the moment we have nothing to go on, but it's likely something, or someone, radicalized them.


Meth?
 
2013-05-22 04:17:23 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?


Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:17:30 PM  

willfullyobscure: Just soooo relieved it was white guys this time you guys. So happy.


Hey, cut that out.

Race-baiting is reserved only for reputable journalistic outlets like Salon so can get more pageclicks. Doing it on a fark thread is just tasteless.
 
2013-05-22 04:18:11 PM  
Do they have guns over there?
This is an easy fix.
 
2013-05-22 04:18:40 PM  

jennies1897: Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\

I think I've seen it, the audio is what got me not so much the visual. About ten years ago or so that made its rounds?


Yes. And yes. The audio was very disturbing.
 
2013-05-22 04:18:54 PM  

happydude45: lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.

Well, since the killers shouted "Allahu Akbar", you can confidently surmise that it was a terrorist nutjob.



And here I was thinking the dead giveaway was that fact that the guys sawed a cadets head off then told the people who witnessed it to remove their government or they'd never be safe.
 
2013-05-22 04:18:59 PM  

super_grass: A note to all the fark racists...


The people blaming this attack on Islam aren't being racist.  Islam is not something you're born with; it's something you're taught.
 
2013-05-22 04:19:44 PM  

lennavan: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M# !

This may or may not be NSFW.  It's not really that bad but tastes may vary, so you were warned.  He's talking about the government.  Seems to me he has a political purpose.  I don't think it's wrong to use the word "terrorism" here.  Perhaps since it's only one guy dead and an isolated incident, you believe it's pretty ineffective terrorism.  But it is still terrorism.


Concur.
 
2013-05-22 04:20:05 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.


Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?
 
2013-05-22 04:20:30 PM  

opiumpoopy: Apparently the government took it as a serious terrorist incident.


What, they killed a Brazilian?
 
2013-05-22 04:21:12 PM  

Lady Indica: jennies1897: Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\

I think I've seen it, the audio is what got me not so much the visual. About ten years ago or so that made its rounds?

Yes. And yes. The audio was very disturbing.


The audio was the part that made me cringe.  The...well, I don't need to go into detail, you heard it too.  Felt really awful for the guy.
 
2013-05-22 04:21:43 PM  

fireclown: jst3p: dittybopper: fireclown: dittybopper: Yes, too smart and too decent. Right. Followed UK politics at all? Ever watched Prime Minister's Questions?

I know that a lot of brit politicians consider PM questions to be a waste of the PMs time in that he or she has to spend hours prepping, but I would LOVE to see it instituted here in the US.

I actually like the idea myself.  It just seems so AMERICAN to hurl hostile questions at the head of the government.

It would never work for the same reason our presidential debates are awful: pivot.

Pivot?  I don't get it.

I would like to see some kind of system in place to keep everyone on topic, however.  I have long proposed that my Grand Ma-Ma be allowed to sit in for presidential debates.  If a candidate would be asked a question and answer a completely different question, she would get to give them a slapping.


And if she gets tired, may we move on to cattle prods?
 
2013-05-22 04:22:06 PM  

super_grass: A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

The victims in the long run will of course be immigrants as racist, right-wing parties like UKIP try to use this excuse to clamp down on immigration.


What are you talking about? The "faith" of these two individuals has absolutely nothing to do with their race. Based on your handle, about all I can advise you to do is put down the weed & pick up a book... preferrably a dictionary or something on the topic of theology vs. anthropology and how to tell the difference between the two.

/shakes head
 
2013-05-22 04:22:21 PM  

Joe Blowme: good nazis


Rommel.
 
2013-05-22 04:22:22 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: Savage Belief: Wow. I thought only US cops shot people for filming them.

Here buddy, you could really use this.

/Just trying to help.


5/7 and to be honest the 2 I got wrong seemed rather subjective to me, but actually an interesting read. stupid SAT's took all the fun out of reading back in school when you were on the clock.  but if you think that this thread isn't going to be a troll fest then you may want to re-learn the scientific method yourself (no offense)
 
2013-05-22 04:23:09 PM  

olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.


USA style in the house
 
2013-05-22 04:23:58 PM  

you are a puppet: <em>"I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same.</em>

In your land women have to deal with a lot worse.


Crazy dude makes no sense. He has a pretty strong and clear British accent to be from another land.
 
2013-05-22 04:24:02 PM  
TheGogmagog:

WTF did I just read?

How about a primer in how to speak London from Shadrack and the Mandem?

NSFW -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugy2MpD-mrE

Gets quite odd towards the end
 
2013-05-22 04:24:13 PM  

olithon20: I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism.


No, it can't.  Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  Terrorism is a word with a meaning.  The meaning of terrorism is not "any violent act."  The meaning of terrorism is "any violent act/thread to coerce."  Unless you can tell me who OJ Simpson was trying to coerce, that was not an act of terrorism.

olithon20: I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term


I don't either.  It's still terrorism.  If you've got it stuck in your head that all acts of terrorism demand high amounts of concern, that's your problem.  It doesn't change the definition of the word terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:24:49 PM  

PunGent: I would like to see some kind of system in place to keep everyone on topic, however. I have long proposed that my Grand Ma-Ma be allowed to sit in for presidential debates. If a candidate would be asked a question and answer a completely different question, she would get to give them a slapping.

And if she gets tired, may we move on to cattle prods?


Sure.  But I can assure you, my Grand Ma-Mas pimp hand is strong.  Should she, however, require a cup of coffee I guess you could have some thugs zap the crap out of a candidate.
 
2013-05-22 04:24:52 PM  

Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?


Actually, looking at what germany is subjecting the rest of the EU to, all germans may be bad.
 
2013-05-22 04:25:44 PM  
omnibus_necanda_sunt

Meth?

who knows.
 
2013-05-22 04:25:47 PM  
 
2013-05-22 04:26:05 PM  
And for Christ's sake, don't pretend there isn't a strong undercurrent of racism involved in Islamophobia. How many times does "white people" come to mind when you say the word "Muslim"? The Daily Show did an entire bit on how freaking weird white Muslims are and how America had trouble assimilating it post-Boston.

And nobody gives a shiat about the Balkans.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:09 PM  

lockers: Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?

Actually, looking at what germany is subjecting the rest of the EU to, all germans may be bad.


All German potato salad is bad.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:12 PM  

Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?


What a good Nazi may look like in springtime...
www.funcrunch.com
 
2013-05-22 04:26:56 PM  

lennavan: olithon20: I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism.

No, it can't.  Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  Terrorism is a word with a meaning.  The meaning of terrorism is not "any violent act."  The meaning of terrorism is "any violent act/thread to coerce."  Unless you can tell me who OJ Simpson was trying to coerce, that was not an act of terrorism.

olithon20: I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term

I don't either.  It's still terrorism.  If you've got it stuck in your head that all acts of terrorism demand high amounts of concern, that's your problem.  It doesn't change the definition of the word terrorism.


Your definition of terrorism is absurd. [Intentionally targeting civilians] needs to be inserted, at the very least.
 
2013-05-22 04:27:01 PM  

Lady Indica: jennies1897: Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\

I think I've seen it, the audio is what got me not so much the visual. About ten years ago or so that made its rounds?

Yes. And yes. The audio was very disturbing.


Oh lordy. I remember that one. That's where I learned that you really can't unsee (or unhear) things. I've been much more careful about clicking ever since.
 
2013-05-22 04:28:00 PM  

Lady Indica: Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\


Yeah, I saw that reporter (Daniel Pearl) get beheaded and I completely agree with you.  The audio was what really sticks with you.  I dunno why I watched that one but I won't watch anything like it again.
 
2013-05-22 04:28:22 PM  

olithon20: lennavan: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?

Ok, so perhaps I was a little vague in my response. For which I apologise.

I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism.


Remember that crazy guy who hacked up the poor dude on the bus in Canada last year?  that was violent, but not terrorism.

And I wouldn't doubt that the people involved felt some form of ideological motivation to commit this act.

If their motivation is political/ideological...the attendant violence is pretty much terrorism.

However, I don't really feel like this is much more than some act of some rather troubled people. I don't see this (and I really hope that I am correct) as some big Terrorist plot, but simply some very angry men committing a violent, isolated act. Sadly, this sort of thing happens.

I doubt it's a BIG plot, but it's still terrorism.

Sometimes it's due to a misguided religious fervor, sometimes it's because the voices in thier head told them so. Sometimes both.

Again, while I deplore the act committed here today, I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term, unless it turns out to be some part of a greater plan, which right now I feel is unlikely.


I view Islam like I view Communism: regardless of their theoretical merits, in real-world practice, both are FAR too likely to be hijacked by violent extremists to the detriment of their own and neighboring societies.

Both suck as political systems, since they provide insufficient countervailing benefits to humanity to outweigh their manifold faults.
 
2013-05-22 04:28:42 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: And for Christ's sake, don't pretend there isn't a strong undercurrent of racism involved in Islamophobia. How many times does "white people" come to mind when you say the word "Muslim"? The Daily Show did an entire bit on how freaking weird white Muslims are and how America had trouble assimilating it post-Boston.

And nobody gives a shiat about the Balkans.


But quibbling about Islamophobia and race gives them an "out" when someone points out their bigotry.

It also diverts attention away from their wildly inconsistent reactions to killings done by Muslim radicals.
 
2013-05-22 04:29:05 PM  
Is there such a thing as Reverse-Colonialism. Because the UK could use some of that right now.
 
2013-05-22 04:29:11 PM  

LoneCraneFullMoon: Lady Indica: jennies1897: Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\

I think I've seen it, the audio is what got me not so much the visual. About ten years ago or so that made its rounds?

Yes. And yes. The audio was very disturbing.

The audio was the part that made me cringe.  The...well, I don't need to go into detail, you heard it too.  Felt really awful for the guy.


I think because it was unexpected. I had someone misrepresent the link, so I wasn't expecting any of it. If it helps, while it sounded farking awful once the artery is severed, the person is unconscious extremely quickly (within seconds). The rest is just the body making noise, going through the motions. So at least they were spared that. =\
 
2013-05-22 04:29:12 PM  

Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.



ter·ror·ism  noun\ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of cohesion.

Funny, Webster's doesn't say anything about civilian or military targets.
 
2013-05-22 04:29:33 PM  

lennavan: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EROXP8JDG9M# !

This may or may not be NSFW.  It's not really that bad but tastes may vary, so you were warned.  He's talking about the government.  Seems to me he has a political purpose.  I don't think it's wrong to use the word "terrorism" here.  Perhaps since it's only one guy dead and an isolated incident, you believe it's pretty ineffective terrorism.  But it is still terrorism.


It still doesn't seem like terrorism. Definitions vary but usually when we study terrorism or talk about terrorism - we're speaking about a person or group that uses terror to leverage change (usually political). That's the basic criteria scholars, experts, and historians use.

Countries, agencies, states, etc often have slightly varying definitions. The US federal government has a few different ones that vary with each agency.
 
2013-05-22 04:30:19 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: And exactly WHERE was Obama?  Doing nothing...AGAIN!



Oh, c'mon already... BOB is always doing something. Play Golf, learning to speak without a teleprompter, eating a dog -- even getting a good night's sleep while your embassy is being attacked and your ambassador is killed is doing something.  You really are bing too hard on the man and besides, this was over in  GB, so it's more of the queen's problem.  Now I wonder why she DID NOTHING!!!
 
2013-05-22 04:30:34 PM  

super_grass: But quibbling about Islamophobia and race gives them an "out" when someone points out their bigotry.


You haven't actually pointed out any bigotry.  You've just assumed it.
 
2013-05-22 04:30:59 PM  

Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?


Your complex insight into this murder is commendable and not at all indicative of an overly simplistic, reactionary nitwit.

/+as many internets as your great mind can imagine
 
2013-05-22 04:31:03 PM  

DeadPuppySociety: Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peace

Aren't they all?


I'm pretty sure Pastafarians practice peace
 
2013-05-22 04:32:17 PM  
Maybe he was alien?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-22 04:32:27 PM  
It took 20 minutes for the police to show up and they had to wait longer until they could get the special cops with guns to shoot the muslims.
 
2013-05-22 04:32:38 PM  

Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.



Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.
 
2013-05-22 04:32:54 PM  

super_grass: A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

The victims in the long run will of course be immigrants as racist, right-wing parties like UKIP try to use this excuse to clamp down on immigration.


While discrimination - not technically racism. Islam is a religion and not a subspecies.
 
2013-05-22 04:33:37 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.


Shrug.  A large percentage of communists were non-violent, decent people.

Didn't prevent communist regimes from inflicting unheralded savagery on the world.

Or are you really going to say Islam is no different than, say, the Quakers?

Interestingly, communism and Islam have similar tenets regarding submission of the individual to something "greater", whether it's the will of Allah (as interpreted by the local imam), or the Party.

Screw that.
 
2013-05-22 04:34:04 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: DeadPuppySociety: Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peace

Aren't they all?

I'm pretty sure Pastafarians practice peace


These people look peaceful to you?

farm3.static.flickr.com
 
2013-05-22 04:34:10 PM  

DeathCipris: Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?

What a good Nazi may look like in springtime...

www.athensbars.gr

I bet she's pretty good.....

Papachristou is a known supporter of Greece's Golden Dawn party, which is so far-right it's loosely defined as a Neo-Nazi political group. So Greece was just covering its bases here.
 
2013-05-22 04:34:57 PM  

eraser8: super_grass: A note to all the fark racists...

The people blaming this attack on Islam aren't being racist.  Islam is not something you're born with; it's something you're taught.


You are TECHNICALLY correct.

/The best kind of correct!
 
2013-05-22 04:35:29 PM  

Ned Stark: lennavan: olithon20: I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism.

No, it can't.  Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  Terrorism is a word with a meaning.  The meaning of terrorism is not "any violent act."  The meaning of terrorism is "any violent act/thread to coerce."  Unless you can tell me who OJ Simpson was trying to coerce, that was not an act of terrorism.

olithon20: I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term

I don't either.  It's still terrorism.  If you've got it stuck in your head that all acts of terrorism demand high amounts of concern, that's your problem.  It doesn't change the definition of the word terrorism.

Your definition of terrorism is absurd. [Intentionally targeting civilians] needs to be inserted, at the very least.


I would argue for adding 'by a non-state actor' as well, since if it's by a government or a government sponsored actor then it's an act of war rather than terrorism, regardless of it's intent.

Kind of getting off track, but if we're going for pedantry let's not screw around.
 
2013-05-22 04:35:39 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


ter·ror·ism  noun\ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of cohesion.

Funny, Webster's doesn't say anything about civilian or military targets.


And its a shiat definition because it includes far more thing that everyone on the planet would agree aren't terrorism than it does things we would agree are terrorism. F'er instance, every police force on the planet.
 
2013-05-22 04:37:33 PM  

lockers: From the brilliant analysis: "The case for this being a jihadist attack, following the ideology of al-Qaeda, is compelling - even if the police won't yet say so officially."

I like how lone nutjob is now equivalent to insidious terrorist plot. I guess when you have a permanent war on an imagined political phantom, every minor crime must be part of it to encourage it's maintenance. I see the same shiat on the local news and refuse to accept this as terrorism at all.


Muslim= al-Qaeda = jihadi, I guess. Of course, if you're a dumbass murderer who needs a quickie excuse for randomly butchering a complete stranger by the side of the road, then Muslim = jihadi if that will get you some points.
 
2013-05-22 04:37:52 PM  

Joe Blowme: exhibit 112317418976890602349783545


Great, you got froth and spittle all over the inside of my monitor.
 
2013-05-22 04:38:38 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

Miss me yet?
 
2013-05-22 04:38:46 PM  

Bontesla: It still doesn't seem like terrorism. Definitions vary but usually when we study terrorism or talk about terrorism - we're speaking about a person or group that uses terror to leverage change (usually political).


So I will agree with you that terrorism has not been explicitly proven here.  We agree on the definition for sure.  I certainly hope we can agree a public beheading constitutions use of terror.  The video I linked you can hear him talk about the government and social issues.  It's not 100% proof that he wants change, but that's not a far leap to make.

The video I linked was from ITV.  Here are the stories ITV has on it.  http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-05-22/woolwich-police-incident/

From that link:

"...we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe   He goes on: "...the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

He beheaded the guy in public.  Rather than run away, or try to make a getaway, he went straight to a camera and made a statement.  His statement pretty clearly asks for a political change.
 
2013-05-22 04:40:09 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: 21-7-b: at the moment we have nothing to go on, but it's likely something, or someone, radicalized them.

Meth?


It was my understanding that there would be no meth.
 
2013-05-22 04:40:39 PM  
First the Boston attack and now this.  I'm beginning to think that we have dealt with all the pure ideological terrorists and all that are left are the nuts.
 
2013-05-22 04:40:40 PM  
Ned Stark:

Uhh you just wanna spit out what's got you rustled about what gets called terrorism these days? You're clearly being facetious in your comments.
 
2013-05-22 04:41:39 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: DeadPuppySociety: Smeggy Smurf: Religion of Peace

Aren't they all?

I'm pretty sure Pastafarians practice peace


R'Amen brother
 
2013-05-22 04:41:45 PM  
i.imgur.com

White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.
 
2013-05-22 04:43:16 PM  
Obama to blame Limbaugh and YouTube in 5...4...3...
 
2013-05-22 04:43:53 PM  

way south: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.


The British can call them whatever they damn well please. That don't make it so.

You're probably right about how little protection they can lay claim to. They are pretty thin for the self-motivated and non existent if you haven't made a uniform for yourself.
 
2013-05-22 04:44:43 PM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt: And for Christ's sake, don't pretend there isn't a strong undercurrent of racism involved in Islamophobia. How many times does "white people" come to mind when you say the word "Muslim"? The Daily Show did an entire bit on how freaking weird white Muslims are and how America had trouble assimilating it post-Boston.

And nobody gives a shiat about the Balkans.


Actually the color of someone's skin doesn't come into play at all when I hear the word "Muslim".

PROTIP: Based on the classification of humans known as typology, Arabs are considered Caucasoids. It really has very little to do with skin color.

I'll just leave this here for you and kindly ask that you not play the race-card.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-22 04:45:27 PM  

jst3p: DeathCipris: Joe Blowme: omnibus_necanda_sunt: Inb4 JoeBlowme stereotypes over 1.5 billion peo-

too late.

Tolerance of evil is a crime. Im talking about islam, not the people who are brainwashed.
Its like saying Nazis bad but not all germans are, see the difference? or are their good nazis?

/member?
//dhimmi?

What a good Nazi may look like in springtime...
[www.athensbars.gr image 500x521]

I bet she's pretty good.....

Papachristou is a known supporter of Greece's Golden Dawn party, which is so far-right it's loosely defined as a Neo-Nazi political group. So Greece was just covering its bases here.


Read that as Mythic Dawn for some reason...

images.uesp.net

Oblivion!
 
2013-05-22 04:45:53 PM  

lennavan: Bontesla: It still doesn't seem like terrorism. Definitions vary but usually when we study terrorism or talk about terrorism - we're speaking about a person or group that uses terror to leverage change (usually political).

So I will agree with you that terrorism has not been explicitly proven here.  We agree on the definition for sure.  I certainly hope we can agree a public beheading constitutions use of terror.  The video I linked you can hear him talk about the government and social issues.  It's not 100% proof that he wants change, but that's not a far leap to make.

The video I linked was from ITV.  Here are the stories ITV has on it.  http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-05-22/woolwich-police-incident/

From that link:

"...we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe   He goes on: "...the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

He beheaded the guy in public.  Rather than run away, or try to make a getaway, he went straight to a camera and made a statement.  His statement pretty clearly asks for a political change.


Public beheading, in and of itself, isn't terrorism. Neither is talking politics, religion, or video games while the beheading takes place.

Terrorism is a tool of leverage used to convince your opponent that it's too costly to not give in to your demands.

Some random guy killing someone else on the street and citing political reasons is more akin to a hate crime than it is terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 04:46:07 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 512x384]

White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.


Media thesedays. PANIC EVERYBODY PANIC. I doubt people in america even know they bombed out the middle of manchester. Wasn't too far from that, which sucked. Loud.
 
2013-05-22 04:47:07 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 512x384]

White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.


But we like the Irish, they gave us St. Patrick's day and green milkshakes.
 
2013-05-22 04:49:43 PM  

Ego edo infantia cattus: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


ter·ror·ism  noun\ˈter-ər-ˌi-zəm\
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of cohesion.

Funny, Webster's doesn't say anything about civilian or military targets.


I think this is where the problem lies with labeling this terrorism so quickly.   We don't seem to have any evidence at this point that these two are connected to anything that has employed terror before now.

If we find out that they're tied to a specific organization linked to previous terrorist acts, then I think terrorism is a fair label.  Otherwise, even if its politically motivated or intended to cause fear, it's a single (horrifying) criminal incident.

/and no, being Muslim is not sufficient.
 
2013-05-22 04:50:27 PM  

Ned Stark: way south: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.

The British can call them whatever they damn well please. That don't make it so.

You're probably right about how little protection they can lay claim to. They are pretty thin for the self-motivated and non existent if you haven't made a uniform for yourself.


Well if we are going to bring the (non-applicable) Geneva Conventions into this, why not just kill the perpetrators on the spot at the scene? No need for a trial if they are enemy soldiers in a war.
 
2013-05-22 04:50:42 PM  

thoughtless: Ned Stark:

Uhh you just wanna spit out what's got you rustled about what gets called terrorism these days? You're clearly being facetious in your comments.


Because my government and its pals(of which the UK is surly one) gave decided that an open endef war against a particular tactic is a good idea. Accepting overbroad definitions of what that tactic is is just more foolishness.
 
2013-05-22 04:51:35 PM  
Joe Blowme

But it's only terrorism when muslims do it? Your beyond a stupid douche.

Proving your ignorance in thread after thread after thread after...
 
2013-05-22 04:51:49 PM  

opaqueluminosity: Ned Stark: way south: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.

The British can call them whatever they damn well please. That don't make it so.

You're probably right about how little protection they can lay claim to. They are pretty thin for the self-motivated and non existent if you haven't made a uniform for yourself.

Well if we are going to bring the (non-applicable) Geneva Conventions into this, why not just kill the perpetrators on the spot at the scene? No need for a trial if they are enemy soldiers in a war.


OK?
 
2013-05-22 04:53:15 PM  

Bontesla: Public beheading, in and of itself, isn't terrorism.


After sourced each of the required components to fit the definition of terrorism with quotes, you cannot possibly be pretending I am claiming this.  You simply cannot be.

Bontesla: Neither is talking politics, religion, or video games while the beheading takes place.


If you behead a guy on the street and then run to a camera and say "shiat like this is gonna keep happening until you pull your troops out of Muslim countries" that's terrorism.

Bontesla: Some random guy killing someone else on the street and citing political reasons is the very farking definition of the word more akin to a hate crime than it is terrorism.


It sure is.  It seems you are arguing this guy's method of terrorism is ineffective.  Fair enough.  But that didn't require you to forget the definition of the word.
 
2013-05-22 04:53:46 PM  

chocolate covered poop: Ego edo infantia cattus: Savage Belief: Wow. I thought only US cops shot people for filming them.

Here buddy, you could really use this.

/Just trying to help.

5/7 and to be honest the 2 I got wrong seemed rather subjective to me, but actually an interesting read. stupid SAT's took all the fun out of reading back in school when you were on the clock.  but if you think that this thread isn't going to be a troll fest then you may want to re-learn the scientific method yourself (no offense)


If you're looking to up your trolling game, you have to use the related materials effectively. Throwing something unrelated out of left field (like US cops not liking to be video taped) makes it seem like you ether don't know what is being discussed, or you're posting in the wrong thread. As for the your supposition regarding my expectations of this thread, and your assertion that it somehow correlates with an ignorance of scientific method... Well, It's a weak wristed jab at best. Again, way out in left field. Adding "No offence" to the end of it makes the attempted troll seem meek, and thus all the more obvious.
 
2013-05-22 04:53:53 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: And exactly WHERE was Obama?  Doing nothing...AGAIN!


I'm sure he's prepared to say exactly not one word about this since it didn't involve white people doing something he could blame a violent act on.
 
2013-05-22 04:54:14 PM  
*Sign*

A lot of sheltered people here, being bigoted as fark.

Would you support eugenics against black people because you heard reports of them committing a crime?
 
2013-05-22 04:54:25 PM  
Didn't know UK cops had guns
 
2013-05-22 04:56:02 PM  
super_grass
2013-05-22 04:10:25 PM


A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

From the same person who spent weeks searching Tea-Party protests for the 1 racist (who was kicked the fark out) in order to flood fark with that one image.

... while ignoring the hundreds of black faces protesting peacefully.
 
2013-05-22 04:56:04 PM  
... just can't hold their mud together, can they ... ?
 
2013-05-22 04:57:15 PM  

bigwf2007: Cadet solider? Is that like ROTC?


cadets are between the ages 12 - 18 - usually still at school.
 
2013-05-22 04:58:43 PM  

super_grass: *Sign*

A lot of sheltered people here, being bigoted as fark.

Would you support eugenics against black people because you heard reports of them committing a crime?


[Right wing troll mode]

No. I'm pro-life.

[/right wing troll mode]
 
2013-05-22 04:58:50 PM  

OnlyM3: super_grass
2013-05-22 04:10:25 PM


A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.
From the same person who spent weeks searching Tea-Party protests for the 1 racist (who was kicked the fark out) in order to flood fark with that one image.

... while ignoring the hundreds of black faces protesting peacefully.


www.addictinginfo.org

Yup. The Tea Party.

The diverse, tolerant Tea Party.

Hint: farkers call those tax-dodgers the American Taliban for a reason.
 
2013-05-22 05:00:02 PM  

lennavan: Bontesla: Public beheading, in and of itself, isn't terrorism.

After sourced each of the required components to fit the definition of terrorism with quotes, you cannot possibly be pretending I am claiming this.  You simply cannot be.

Bontesla: Neither is talking politics, religion, or video games while the beheading takes place.

If you behead a guy on the street and then run to a camera and say "shiat like this is gonna keep happening until you pull your troops out of Muslim countries" that's terrorism.

Bontesla: Some random guy killing someone else on the street and citing political reasons is the very farking definition of the word more akin to a hate crime than it is terrorism.

It sure is.  It seems you are arguing this guy's method of terrorism is ineffective.  Fair enough.  But that didn't require you to forget the definition of the word.


No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.
 
2013-05-22 05:01:03 PM  
"...we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Unless we somehow get shot and sent to prison.... hang on, we didn't think this through did we?'' *BANG*
 
2013-05-22 05:02:11 PM  

Ned Stark: way south: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.

The British can call them whatever they damn well please. That don't make it so.

You're probably right about how little protection they can lay claim to. They are pretty thin for the self-motivated and non existent if you haven't made a uniform for yourself.


You'll get no disagreement from me about this being one giant farked up gray zone.
The rules of war were written in favor of the governments that signed them.

There isn't room for illegal or unsponsored combatants to find legitimate ground.
If yoursovereign calls you a terrorist, it's what you are unless a competing authority steps up to claimresponsibility for you.

/The way I see it: A terror attack is a crime designed to instill fear in an audience beyond those directly harmed.
/Terrorism is the application of these attacks towards a greater goal by some organization or authority.
/Filming a murder for others to broadcast as propaganda would meet my personal benchmark for terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 05:03:08 PM  

super_grass: *Sign*

A lot of sheltered people here, being bigoted as fark.

Would you support eugenics against black people because you heard reports of them committing a crime?


No, because then we wouldn't have any more black people. And I loves me some football.
 
2013-05-22 05:03:37 PM  

OnlyM3: Joe Blowme

But it's only terrorism when muslims do it? Your beyond a stupid douche.
Proving your ignorance in thread after thread after thread after...


OnlyM3: ... while ignoring the hundreds of black faces protesting peacefully.



Misspelling a word is worse then using incorrect grammar. Glad to see the braniac brigade is out in force.
 
2013-05-22 05:03:50 PM  

Wittenberg Dropout: Is there such a thing as Reverse-Colonialism. Because the UK could use some of that right now.


I think that one may be called ethnic cleansing, not sure if there's ever been a version that didn't involve violence.
 
2013-05-22 05:04:25 PM  

Bontesla: As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.


Well sure, other than the time the attacker said the only thing that drove this attack was his political agenda.

lennavan: "the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."


Bontesla: His goal must be to leverage political change


Ummm....

lennavan: we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe

 
2013-05-22 05:05:19 PM  
omnibus_necanda_sunt

And nobody gives a shiat about the Balkans.
The place the U.S. sent solders to prevent the wholesale slaughter of moon-barkers?

Yeah ... nobody cared about that. Good lord you lefties have memory mental issues.
 
2013-05-22 05:05:40 PM  

super_grass: Would you support eugenics against black people because you heard reports of them committing a crime?


What?

What does eugenics have to do with anything being argued here?  How is that even slightly analogous?
 
2013-05-22 05:06:50 PM  
Weltallica
White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.

Faved.
 
2013-05-22 05:08:06 PM  

super_grass: *Sign*

A lot of sheltered people here, being bigoted as fark.

Would you support eugenics against black people because you heard reports of them committing a crime?


Large immigration numbers from the third world have enriched Europe and brought prosperity, inspiring feelings of brotherhood as they eagerly assimilate and adapt to the local culture. Thankfully, Europe has not changed and will not change with their presence. Things can only improve as the highly educated and highly skilled brown people work patiently to make Europe function like their own countries.
 
2013-05-22 05:10:08 PM  

way south: Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


Soldiers are legitimate targets for other soldiers when all sides are following their respective chains of command in a declared war.

Non-soldiers randomly going after a service member in peacetime it isn't legitimate war making, and they've probably got no protection under Geneva.
Meaning the British can call them terrorists or murderers orwhatever and deal with them according to their governments laws.


Were the men who stabbed him to death in military uniform? Were they following orders from their chain of command? Has whatever "military" group they were with officially declared war on the U.K.? By your logic, isn't every terrors group a legitimate military organization, and every terrorist a solder, who should be protected by the Geneva Convention?
 
2013-05-22 05:11:40 PM  

Bontesla: No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.


Oh, come on.
 
2013-05-22 05:11:59 PM  

StrikitRich: I'm sure mere bullets won't stop The Kurgan


gubaba.org

You'd have to have a quad on you anyway to try.
 
2013-05-22 05:12:37 PM  
Going from using planes as missiles to street crime is a pretty big fall.
 
gad
2013-05-22 05:13:03 PM  

Moosecakes: "Terrorists" makes it sound like an organized group, rather than the lone nutjob that it was. It's the difference between "gang beats up teenager" and "guy beats up teenager." Please make sure you get it right in the future subby.


stubby did get it right. You just don't understand words is all. People who are using violence to create terror and then justify it with reasoning used by terrorists are terrorists.
 
2013-05-22 05:13:56 PM  

lennavan: Bontesla: As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

Well sure, other than the time the attacker said the only thing that drove this attack was his political agenda.

lennavan: "the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

Bontesla: His goal must be to leverage political change

Ummm....

lennavan: we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe


But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people? This is a single isolated incident and isn't connected to a group (based on what we currently know). There was no plan for this particular incident to be a negotiating tool against the British. That's why it's more akin to a hate crime. Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.

Now, suppose there was an increase of similar attacks carried out for the same reason. I'd say that the criteria for terrorism has been met.
 
2013-05-22 05:14:09 PM  

Bontesla: Public beheading, in and of itself, isn't terrorism. Neither is talking politics, religion, or video games while the beheading takes place.

Terrorism is a tool of leverage used to convince your opponent that it's too costly to not give in to your demands.

Some random guy killing someone else on the street and citing political reasons is more akin to a hate crime than it is terrorism.



In fairness, the guy did say something along the lines of "this is what will happen to you". Look, I totally understand the position of you and everyone else who is hesitant to label an act of violence "terrorism". Yes, people have abused the term to justify everything from increases in defense spending to limiting or taking away rights. BUt that does not mean terrorist and terrorism do not exist. This is very small scale, but it does appear to be terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 05:14:45 PM  

Nabb1: Bontesla: No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.

Oh, come on.


People throw their children off of bridges and say that God told them to, and we just regard them as nutters. So he may indeed just be a nutter.
 
2013-05-22 05:14:54 PM  

Nabb1: Bontesla: No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.

Oh, come on.


Is it not?
 
2013-05-22 05:15:22 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Going from using planes as missiles to street crime is a pretty big fall.


It gets a lot more difficult when the government isn't trying to help you create another "pearl harbor".


Study it out.
 
2013-05-22 05:15:45 PM  

Bontesla: lennavan: Bontesla: As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

Well sure, other than the time the attacker said the only thing that drove this attack was his political agenda.

lennavan: "the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

Bontesla: His goal must be to leverage political change

Ummm....

lennavan: we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe

But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people? This is a single isolated incident and isn't connected to a group (based on what we currently know). There was no plan for this particular incident to be a negotiating tool against the British. That's why it's more akin to a hate crime. Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.

Now, suppose there was an increase of similar attacks carried out for the same reason. I'd say that the criteria for terrorism has been met.


Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool."  It's the polar opposite of negotiation.  Negotiation means there is some give and take.  "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.
 
2013-05-22 05:19:24 PM  
weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 512x384]
White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry
"something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.


on the surface I thought I might agree but then, I thought about it a bit more.

The irish/Ireland were part of the UK so it's more like domestic terrorism AKA- " they might be murderous bastards but they're OUR murderous bastards."
the two killers did not look anything like other citizens and were hollering about a religion many people link to terrorism and all out war.

So in the end, I can't agree that people lose their minds over what has gone on prior, it's not just different players to them.
See?

and never mind what I called the IRA - I was using it as an example not a label- don't try to drag me down THAT road.
 
2013-05-22 05:19:27 PM  

Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.


I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.
 
2013-05-22 05:19:42 PM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Bontesla: Public beheading, in and of itself, isn't terrorism. Neither is talking politics, religion, or video games while the beheading takes place.

Terrorism is a tool of leverage used to convince your opponent that it's too costly to not give in to your demands.

Some random guy killing someone else on the street and citing political reasons is more akin to a hate crime than it is terrorism.


In fairness, the guy did say something along the lines of "this is what will happen to you". Look, I totally understand the position of you and everyone else who is hesitant to label an act of violence "terrorism". Yes, people have abused the term to justify everything from increases in defense spending to limiting or taking away rights. BUt that does not mean terrorist and terrorism do not exist. This is very small scale, but it does appear to be terrorism.


How specifically is this act going to be used as leverage to achieve the specific goal of ending British soldiers from killing his people?

Based on what we currently know - it isn't.

So while he was motivated for a political cause - it doesn't appear that he had a goal other than retribution.
 
2013-05-22 05:20:18 PM  
taimapedia.org
 
2013-05-22 05:21:08 PM  

Bontesla: Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.


If murder was the sole goal, then why did he stick around and seek out cameras to make a statement?

Bontesla: But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people?


You don't understand how the threat of beheading random citizens in the streets until British soldiers stop killing his people counts as leverage?

I can't help you dude.  You're too far derp.
 
2013-05-22 05:21:16 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Nabb1: Bontesla: No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.

Oh, come on.

People throw their children off of bridges and say that God told them to, and we just regard them as nutters. So he may indeed just be a nutter.


But, the guy didn't just say "my god wanted me to do this."  He connected the attack to a political goal.  That's terrorism.

Of course, that doesn't mean that he's not nutters.  I'm pretty sure the 9/11 terrorists were nutters, too.
 
2013-05-22 05:22:03 PM  
way south:
/The way I see it: A terror attack is a crime designed to instill fear in an audience beyond those directly harmed.
/Terrorism is the application of these attacks towards a greater goal by some organization or authority.
/Filming a murder for others to broadcast as propaganda would meet my personal benchmark for terrorism.



Thank you. Precisely what I was trying to get across the first time.
 
2013-05-22 05:22:33 PM  

Bontesla: How specifically is this act going to be used as leverage to achieve the specific goal of ending British soldiers from killing his people?


Scare the people of Britain into voting for more non-interventionist members of Parliament maybe?
 
2013-05-22 05:22:58 PM  

Bontesla: How specifically is this act going to be used as leverage to achieve the specific goal of ending British soldiers from killing his people?


Dear British People,

I beheaded that random dude in retaliation for British soldiers killing my people.  Things like this will continue until you stop.

Hugs,
~Not A Terrorist

Yeah, I don't see it either.
 
2013-05-22 05:23:03 PM  
Word to the wise:

Guys, if a muslim asks you 'Wanna neck?' he might not be gay.
 
2013-05-22 05:23:35 PM  

Nabb1: Bontesla: lennavan: Bontesla: As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

Well sure, other than the time the attacker said the only thing that drove this attack was his political agenda.

lennavan: "the only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day."

Bontesla: His goal must be to leverage political change

Ummm....

lennavan: we swear by almighty Allah, that we will never stop fighting you. Until you leave us alone, your people will never be safe

But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people? This is a single isolated incident and isn't connected to a group (based on what we currently know). There was no plan for this particular incident to be a negotiating tool against the British. That's why it's more akin to a hate crime. Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.

Now, suppose there was an increase of similar attacks carried out for the same reason. I'd say that the criteria for terrorism has been met.

Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool."  It's the polar opposite of negotiation.  Negotiation means there is some give and take.  "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.


Terrorists are using fear as a negotiating tool. In other words, they will stop terrorizing if you give them X.

I never said they were fair or kind negotiators.
 
2013-05-22 05:23:40 PM  

Ned Stark: Stark


Well, if Wikipeida is

Ned Stark: Ego edo infantia cattus: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.

Ned Stark: soldier

Not terrorism.

Except that they were religious zealots making political statements, threatening future violence, and demanding as much media coverage as they could get... other than that, totally not terrorists.
Oh, and he wasn't a soldier, he was a cadet.

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Yep. Yep. Yep. So what?

Soldiers are legal targets, even if they are in training. Not terrorism.


No, if he was in ROTC in the United States he wouldn't be considered a solider.

And if Wikipedia's article on British cadets is accurate, a cadet isn't considered a solider in the United Kingdom:
 
2013-05-22 05:23:53 PM  

serialsuicidebomber: Word to the wise:

Guys, if a muslim asks you 'Wanna neck?' he might not be gay.


And if he tells you to give him head, he is going to get it one way or another.
 
2013-05-22 05:24:26 PM  

Lady Indica: Mimic_Octopus: Lady Indica: I've seen one person beheaded on video. If you've not seen something like that, I STRONGLY urge you NOT to watch it. Not ever.

You'll live your whole life happier not seeing or hearing it. Please, just trust me on that one.

As to what happened...just holy fark. 0_0

gotta link to the video that scarred you for life ?

Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\


I remember that video, probably '01 or '02 when Daniel Pearl got whacked. I went looking for the video thinking I could handle it myself, having watched dad skin animals in the basement when I was like 6 and having carried amputated limbs (in a bag) down to the hospital morgue when I worked as an OR nursing assistant.

I started to watch the video, up until the assassin started making small saw like cuts through the guy's windpipe with the serrated portion of his kabar.  He probably didn't make it 1/8" of an inch through before I closed my eyes, and reached for the power button on the PC.  I didn't even want to look at the monitor to close the media player.  Rebooted it, and the first thing I did was delete that frickin' file.

That was the last time I even bothered with watching something like that.  You just can't unsee that shiat.
 
2013-05-22 05:25:01 PM  
the attackers waited at the scene until police arrived and shot both.

This sentence seems like it could be phrased better.
 
2013-05-22 05:25:26 PM  

lennavan: You don't understand how the threat of beheading random citizens in the streets until British soldiers stop killing his people counts as leverage?


I am sure the threat of that guy randomly beheading citizens is exactly zero. I also don't worry about the sandy hook guy shooting up my daughters school. I am pretty sure both of them sought infamy, but as far as lasting affects I can say they are nil.
 
2013-05-22 05:26:33 PM  

humanshrapnel: That was the last time I even bothered with watching something like that. You just can't unsee that shiat.


That's how I feel about Carrot Top.
 
2013-05-22 05:30:58 PM  

lennavan: Lady Indica: Didn't scar me for life but then again it wasn't a spider. I've seen worse. But it's a pretty awful thing, much worse than most people expect. And if you're a fan of gore (not judging, not my thing) you've probably seen it. It was the Russian solider decapitated with a knife. Very up close, very graphic, with full audio. Again, not judging but I personally don't see any redeeming value in such content being available. Always hope the family never sees it. =\

Yeah, I saw that reporter (Daniel Pearl) get beheaded and I completely agree with you.  The audio was what really sticks with you.  I dunno why I watched that one but I won't watch anything like it again.


This. Saw it, wish everyday I could un-see it.

Fast forward to 4 years ago at a police academy in Texas: shown a video by a narco agent that shows a man being decapitated by Los Zetas for snitching.

With basically a glorified steak knife.

I can still hear them hacking into his spinal column.

/I hate people sometimes
 
2013-05-22 05:34:36 PM  

lennavan: Bontesla: Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.

If murder was the sole goal, then why did he stick around and seek out cameras to make a statement?

Bontesla: But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people?

You don't understand how the threat of beheading random citizens in the streets until British soldiers stop killing his people counts as leverage?

I can't help you dude.  You're too far derp.


Why did he stick around? Some people like to explain their motivation. Some people like a grand exit. Some people are nutters. I never argued that he was a man without reasons - merely that his reasons don't quite fit terrorism.

I understand the point that you're trying to make: he committed an act that creates fear and that act was motivated by a political reason therefore he committed the act in an attempt to achieve his political goal.

His rantings could be interpreted to be an act of retribution. He wasn't making a specific threat or promise that every would be subject to something similar until the British stopped killing his med. He wasn't working with anyone to carry out goals (that we know of). Effectively, the threat ended with him. Either he had no goal or the murder was the goal.
 
2013-05-22 05:35:14 PM  

Bontesla: DeathByGeekSquad: It's only shocking if you don't understand the world outside of your own border.

Wait, what?


It's pretty straightforward.  They disabled their victim and hacked him to pieces in front of a crowd for maximum public exposure.  That happens elsewhere in the world.  If you understand that the action happens elsewhere in the world, and is employed by specific groups of people, when those groups of people influence or direct it to happen in your neck of the woods - it isn't that shocking.
 
2013-05-22 05:36:59 PM  

lockers: Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.

I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.


Exactly. One side is getting Allah and the other is getting killed. Fair dinkum.
 
2013-05-22 05:37:08 PM  
Did you ever notice that in countries which are predominantly Moslem a group is singled out as not being the right KIND of Moslem and that seves as justification to bomb their mosques - especially when occupied.
 
2013-05-22 05:39:35 PM  

PghThermal: Did you ever notice that in countries which are predominantly Moslem a group is singled out as not being the right KIND of Moslem and that seves as justification to bomb their mosques - especially when occupied.



No.
 
2013-05-22 05:41:09 PM  

R.A.Danny: lockers: Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.

I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.

Exactly. One side is getting Allah and the other is getting killed. Fair dinkum.


I didn't say it was fair. I didn't say it is negotiation. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is quid pro quo. Both sides do, in fact, get something out of that deal.
 
2013-05-22 05:43:19 PM  

lockers: R.A.Danny: lockers: Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.

I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.

Exactly. One side is getting Allah and the other is getting killed. Fair dinkum.

I didn't say it was fair. I didn't say it is negotiation. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is quid pro quo. Both sides do, in fact, get something out of that deal.


Not getting your head cut off isn't "Getting something".
 
2013-05-22 05:46:12 PM  

R.A.Danny: lockers: R.A.Danny: lockers: Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.

I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.

Exactly. One side is getting Allah and the other is getting killed. Fair dinkum.

I didn't say it was fair. I didn't say it is negotiation. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is quid pro quo. Both sides do, in fact, get something out of that deal.

Not getting your head cut off isn't "Getting something".


You aren't taking the deal if they continue doing it.
 
2013-05-22 05:46:41 PM  

eraser8: HotWingConspiracy: Nabb1: Bontesla: No, I'm arguing that he isn't using terror to leverage political change. Hence, he shouldn't be classified as a terrorist until sufficient evidence arises to illustrate that he was using terror to leverage political change.

Merely having a political agenda during the attack is insufficient. His goal must be to leverage political change by committing this act.

As it stands - we don't have sufficient evidence to conclude that the attacker's political agenda drove this very attack.

He could have been claiming to be a Martian and jabbering about our invasion of his home planet Mars. It's effectively the same story.

Oh, come on.

People throw their children off of bridges and say that God told them to, and we just regard them as nutters. So he may indeed just be a nutter.

But, the guy didn't just say "my god wanted me to do this."  He connected the attack to a political goal.  That's terrorism.

Of course, that doesn't mean that he's not nutters.  I'm pretty sure the 9/11 terrorists were nutters, too.


He gave motive. It doesn't appear that he had a plan to translate his motive into a political goal (based off of what we currently know). Motive isn't the same thing as an objective or goal.

Had he been working with other people to help him carry out a plan to achieve political goals then we'd have a different story.

Here's an analogy that could help explain the subtly:

Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime. Now imagine he said, "As long as your kind exist, my kind will be there to kill you for your sins." This isn't terrorism. It's motive. Now suppose he said, "All of society will pay until the guys are purged and my buddies will make sure of it." That's terrorism. Subtle differences.
 
2013-05-22 05:48:19 PM  

Bontesla: Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime.


Actually it is both.
 
2013-05-22 05:48:48 PM  

lockers: You aren't taking the deal if they continue doing it.


You're head's off, there is no deal.
 
2013-05-22 05:52:00 PM  

OnlyM3: Obama to blame Limbaugh and YouTube in 5...4...3...


That seems feasible. Derp harder.
 
2013-05-22 05:52:56 PM  

R.A.Danny: lockers: You aren't taking the deal if they continue doing it.

You're head's off, there is no deal.


Then how the hell am in this thread?!?
 
2013-05-22 05:53:20 PM  
Heads are going to roll over this.
 
2013-05-22 05:53:27 PM  
listening to the radio right now. People in Woolwich saying that it feels just like the riots in 2011

/glad I got the greenlight here on that one
//this isn't going to be good
 
2013-05-22 05:53:27 PM  

lennavan: Bontesla: How specifically is this act going to be used as leverage to achieve the specific goal of ending British soldiers from killing his people?

Dear British People,

I beheaded that random dude in retaliation for British soldiers killing my people.  Things like this will continue until you stop.

Hugs,
~Not A Terrorist

Yeah, I don't see it either.


See my analogy (posted above in a reply to someone else). This obviously isn't working.
 
2013-05-22 05:53:30 PM  
That is pretty farking brutal. I can't get over the part where the woman just walks right by the bloody, machete-wielding dude as if nothing is happening.  o_O

It's hard to tell from the short videos what really happened. I can't say if this fits the bill for "terrorism", "mental illness" or "overdose of bath salts" but I hope the perp never sees daylight again. Ugh.
 
2013-05-22 05:55:09 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 512x384]

White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.


No one worrie(d) about the IRA?  Are you insane?

I lived in London 20 years ago.  I worried about the IRA quite a bit.
 
2013-05-22 05:59:48 PM  

lockers: R.A.Danny: lockers: You aren't taking the deal if they continue doing it.

You're head's off, there is no deal.

Then how the hell am in this thread?!?


I never knew a Farker that needed his head to post in a Politics thread.

/I know this isn't a politics thread, but it was funnier that way.
 
2013-05-22 06:03:34 PM  

Bontesla: lennavan: Bontesla: **SNIP**

His rantings could be interpreted to be an act of retribution. He wasn't making a specific threat or promise that every would be subject to something similar until the British stopped killing his med. He wasn't working with anyone to carry out goals (that we know of). Effectively, the threat ended with him. Either he had no goal or the murder was the goal.


You could not possibly be any more wrong.

FTFA - ... He added: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

Reading. How does it work?

/lennavan is correct.
//you are too far derp.
 
2013-05-22 06:05:08 PM  

Bontesla: Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime. Now imagine he said, "As long as your kind exist, my kind will be there to kill you for your sins." This isn't terrorism. It's motive. Now suppose he said, "All of society will pay until the guys are purged and my buddies will make sure of it." That's terrorism. Subtle differences.


You're making the mistake of assuming there's a bright line between what constitutes terrorism and what constitutes a hate crime.  There isn't.  The totality of the circumstances have to be weighed when the State makes a decision about which class or crime -- if either -- the offense belongs to.

In the case as you described it, seems more of a hate crime than terrorism.  But, changing only a few words shifts the balance.

Imagine, instead, the offender said, "until the government outlaws same sex marriage, my kind will be there to kill gays for their sins."

That's terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 06:06:38 PM  

R.A.Danny: lockers: R.A.Danny: lockers: Nabb1: Terrorism is not a "negotiating tool." It's the polar opposite of negotiation. Negotiation means there is some give and take. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is not really a quid pro quo.

I get what you mean, but both sides are getting something out of the deal.

Exactly. One side is getting Allah and the other is getting killed. Fair dinkum.

I didn't say it was fair. I didn't say it is negotiation. "Do what we want and we won't cut off people's heads in the street" is quid pro quo. Both sides do, in fact, get something out of that deal.

Not getting your head cut off isn't "Getting something".


It's technically getting your head in exchange for obedience.
 
2013-05-22 06:06:51 PM  

R.A.Danny: I never knew a Farker that needed used his head to post in a Politics thread.


Point conceded.
 
2013-05-22 06:07:19 PM  
This is Islam. This is what Islam is.

Come to the west to escape the shiathole you came from, and immediately start trying to make the west just like that shiathole.
 
2013-05-22 06:07:30 PM  

Bontesla: It's technically getting your head in exchange for obedience.


So you are to react to terror. Terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 06:07:44 PM  

jst3p: Bontesla: Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime.

Actually it is both.


It's actually not.
 
2013-05-22 06:08:14 PM  

dforkus: This is Islam religion. This is what Islam religion

  is.
 
2013-05-22 06:09:32 PM  

Bontesla: jst3p: Bontesla: Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime.

Actually it is both.

It's actually not.


www.nathanielturner.com

This man is about to be lynched. It is because they hate black people, making it a hate crime, and to terrorize other black people.

It is both.
 
2013-05-22 06:10:19 PM  
Multiculturalism, ladies and gents.
 
2013-05-22 06:10:21 PM  
This would get NEWSFLASH if it happened in the US
 
2013-05-22 06:10:53 PM  

4NTLRZ: Bontesla: lennavan: Bontesla: **SNIP**

His rantings could be interpreted to be an act of retribution. He wasn't making a specific threat or promise that every would be subject to something similar until the British stopped killing his med. He wasn't working with anyone to carry out goals (that we know of). Effectively, the threat ended with him. Either he had no goal or the murder was the goal.

You could not possibly be any more wrong.

FTFA - ... He added: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

Reading. How does it work?

/lennavan is correct.
//you are too far derp.


A flimsy threat does not constitute a plan. Even if you close your eyes and pray. Even if you beg. A threat, especially one that effectively ends with the attackers, is not a plan. Therefore their actions aren't being used as part of a plan to achieve a political goal.
 
2013-05-22 06:13:29 PM  

olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

So a couple of complete nutters killed a poor guy and were stupid enough to hang around ranting and raving about it until they got taken down by the police. It's a shame, but it happens. Crazy is crazy, whatever flavour it comes in. They'll be punished in due course, and my deepest sympathies to the family, but otherwise, it's just one of those things. The media seem to be getting rather too excitable about it all, simply due to the supposed terrorism angle.

If there is a sudden rash of attacks, on military personnel or otherwise, I might be somewhat concerned, but otherwise, hey, crazy is crazy.


I agree.
 
2013-05-22 06:18:06 PM  
Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.
 
2013-05-22 06:18:18 PM  

olithon20: lennavan: olithon20: As a Brit, I say that while this is a terrible incident, it doesn't really make me think "Oh god, Terrorists!'.

Terrorism is a word.  Words have meaning.  The word terrorism has a meaning.
ter·ror·ism[ter-uh-riz-uh] Show IPA noun
1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

We agree this was violence, right?  Good, that's half of the definition right there.  Now what was the purpose of this violence?

Ok, so perhaps I was a little vague in my response. For which I apologise.

I will concede that this act would likely fit the bill for the definition of 'terrorism'. At the end of the day, any violent act committed could probably be argued to be an act of terrorism. And I wouldn't doubt that the people involved felt some form of ideological motivation to commit this act.

However, I don't really feel like this is much more than some act of some rather troubled people. I don't see this (and I really hope that I am correct) as some big Terrorist plot, but simply some very angry men committing a violent, isolated act. Sadly, this sort of thing happens. Sometimes it's due to a misguided religious fervor, sometimes it's because the voices in thier head told them so. Sometimes both.

Again, while I deplore the act committed here today, I don't think it's worth getting too concerned over in the long term, unless it turns out to be some part of a greater plan, which right now I feel is unlikely.


I guess I'm asking myself, "Where's the terror?"
 
2013-05-22 06:19:27 PM  

AirForceVet: May the police bullets have left them paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of their miserable lives.

/Can we have draw and quarter back please?


Here, here. Fargin rat bastards
 
2013-05-22 06:19:34 PM  

Bontesla: lennavan: Bontesla: Murdering the cadet was the goal - and he justified that goal politically.

If murder was the sole goal, then why did he stick around and seek out cameras to make a statement?

Bontesla: But how is this attack being used as leverage to prevent the British soldiers from killing his people?

You don't understand how the threat of beheading random citizens in the streets until British soldiers stop killing his people counts as leverage?

I can't help you dude.  You're too far derp.

Why did he stick around? Some people like to explain their motivation. Some people like a grand exit. Some people are nutters. I never argued that he was a man without reasons - merely that his reasons don't quite fit terrorism.

I understand the point that you're trying to make: he committed an act that creates fear and that act was motivated by a political reason therefore he committed the act in an attempt to achieve his political goal.

His rantings could be interpreted to be an act of retribution. He wasn't making a specific threat or promise that every would be subject to something similar until the British stopped killing his med. He wasn't working with anyone to carry out goals (that we know of). Effectively, the threat ended with him. Either he had no goal or the murder was the goal.


Is your back sore from moving those heavy-ass goalposts?
 
2013-05-22 06:20:44 PM  
does the UK have a method of legally getting a concealed pistol permit?
 
2013-05-22 06:20:49 PM  
The children are going to get extra molested at Heathrow this week.
 
2013-05-22 06:22:49 PM  

The_Original_Roxtar: does the UK have a method of legally getting a concealed pistol permit?


No because it is morally superior to be beheaded in the street than fight back
 
2013-05-22 06:24:17 PM  
has anyone brought up the gun control angle on this yet?
 
2013-05-22 06:25:29 PM  

weltallica: [i.imgur.com image 512x384]

White IRA terrorists kill thousands in bombings over the decades, and no one worries.  But if two black men kill one white man, and cry "something something Allah"... then EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS.


This may possibly be the dumbest thing said on Fark all month. Definitely for the week so far.
 
2013-05-22 06:26:12 PM  

jst3p: dforkus: This is Islam religion. This is what Islam religion  is.


yah, how many Quakers flew airplanes into the World Trade Center.

Yes yes, all religions have their share of whackos, from the WBC, to the nutbag that killed George tiller, but Islam's problem with people doing horrible antisocial acts in its name is especially pernicious.
 
2013-05-22 06:26:22 PM  

JabbaTheButt: Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.


if i, as a californian, cut the head off a texan, and proclaim a californihad against the texas infidel, does that make it true?
 
2013-05-22 06:30:43 PM  

R.A.Danny: Bontesla: It's technically getting your head in exchange for obedience.

So you are to react to terror. Terrorism.


If there's a backlash and a poor muslim fellow gets lynched by right wing extremists, forcing brown folks to flee the country or hide inside their homes, would anyone dare call that terrorism?
 
2013-05-22 06:32:10 PM  

Father_Jack: JabbaTheButt: Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.

if i, as a californian, cut the head off a texan, and proclaim a californihad against the texas infidel, does that make it true?

if it happens again, and again, and again, and again, and all we hear from the Calfornian government is mealy mouthed half assed appolgies, interlaced with a littnanny of gripes about how the poor poor Calfornians are just so victimized by those big meany Texans? if that's all that ever happens, and there is no Californian commitment to actually address the problem?


Well... Yes,,,

 
2013-05-22 06:33:08 PM  

dforkus: jst3p: dforkus: This is Islam religion. This is what Islam religion  is.

yah, how many Quakers flew airplanes into the World Trade Center.

Yes yes, all religions have their share of whackos, from the WBC, to the nutbag that killed George tiller, but Islam's problem with people doing horrible antisocial acts in its name is especially pernicious.


tis true they have a serious branding problem, and there are a lot of nutbags committing crime in the name of their religion. we in the west dont need to kill in the name of christ any more, we have other causes and legitimize our violence through state-run militaries. if these guys had access to the same tools, i'm sure they'd do the same thing. But they dont, so they resort to this shiat, the same way we would if we were in their position.

blaming the religion is barking up the wrong tree in my opinion. its addressing a symptom and not the disease. if the states or proto-states which generate these assholes functioned, and if we as the global hegemon (the Western NATO democracies) woudl quit pursuing a foreign policy which fuels these dickwads this'd gradually improve.
 
2013-05-22 06:34:36 PM  

jst3p: Bontesla: jst3p: Bontesla: Imagine a homophobic guy that killed someone for being gay. This isn't terrorism - it's a hate crime.

Actually it is both.

It's actually not.

[www.nathanielturner.com image 290x290]

This man is about to be lynched. It is because they hate black people, making it a hate crime, and to terrorize other black people.

It is both.


Sorry for the delay. I wanted to jump on the laptop to address this question.

You're painting my analogy with a bit of a broad brush. That may be my fault - trying to Fark on my phone while getting changed from work isn't particularly effective.

Scenario 1: A homophobic man slays a gay man for being gay isn't terrorism because there's no overall plan for political change and this single murder doesn't convey a plan for political change. It's a hate crime but it isn't terrorism.

Scenario 2: A homophobic man slays a gay man for being gay. While slaying the man, he says, "As long as your kind exists, my kind will exist to kill your kind." This also isn't terrorism. It's a threat and the man is using fear as leverage - but there is no plan to achieve political change. Aspirations to be rid of teh gay isn't a plan. "His kind" isn't, in and of itself, tantamount to an organization that seeks to destroy all gay people. This is a hate crime but not quite terrorism because, again, there's no plan in which this action is used to leverage political change.

Scenario 3: A homophobic man slays a gay man for being gay. While slaying the man, he says, "Society will suffer until my people purge your people from it. There's no where to run or hide. Eventually, society will hand you over on a silver platter, begging for mercy."  That is terrorism.

Now, to address specifically the lynching of African Americans: there are two periods of time. In the beginning - lynching was not treated largely as a crime. As someone noted earlier - this is just a government largely committing crimes against its people. It was part of systematic oppression in which the government often supported (directly and indirectly) efforts to oppress the people. The government was a co-conspirator.

When lynching became a criminal matter (people were arrested, tried, and convicted in a meaningful way) - the argument can be made that they were acts of terrorism.
 
2013-05-22 06:36:27 PM  

stryed: R.A.Danny: Bontesla: It's technically getting your head in exchange for obedience.

So you are to react to terror. Terrorism.

If there's a backlash and a poor muslim fellow gets lynched by right wing extremists,(You're missing a step right here) forcing brown folks to flee the country or hide inside their homes, would anyone dare call that terrorism?

 
2013-05-22 06:37:32 PM  
Is this because the UK has been killing al Queada with drones?

Also, who uses a meat cleaver?  Other than Limehouse, that is.
 
2013-05-22 06:37:34 PM  

dforkus: Father_Jack: JabbaTheButt: Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.

if i, as a californian, cut the head off a texan, and proclaim a californihad against the texas infidel, does that make it true?
if it happens again, and again, and again, and again, and all we hear from the Calfornian government is mealy mouthed half assed appolgies, interlaced with a littnanny of gripes about how the poor poor Calfornians are just so victimized by those big meany Texans? if that's all that ever happens, and there is no Californian commitment to actually address the problem?
Well... Yes,,,


replace californian with NRA... still make sense?
 
2013-05-22 06:39:49 PM  

super_grass: A note to all the fark racists: two people do not represent more than a million followers, and it's not fair to judge an entire faith based on two people. Do McVeigh or abortion clinic bombers represent all christians? No.

The victims in the long run will of course be immigrants as racist, right-wing parties like UKIP try to use this excuse to clamp down on immigration.


Or, you know, they could just bash a few wogs and call it a day.
 
2013-05-22 06:41:40 PM  

JabbaTheButt: Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.


The problem isn't between Islam and the West.  The problem is between superstition and modernity.

The reason Islam stands out as particularly violent is that a relatively large (compared to the other religions) proportion of Muslims take their religion really seriously.  When the Quran tells Muslims to kill non-believers, there are a lot of Muslims who see that as a genuine command that can't be ignored.

When the Christian Bible says, "anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name they are to be put to death" -- Christians tend not to take that too seriously.
 
2013-05-22 06:41:50 PM  

boyvoyeur: Didn't know UK cops had guns


Regular "beat bobbies" don't carry guns unless they've been specifically called to a situation where they will need them. Firearms officers are specialists who've had advanced training, and can handle a sniper rifle if need be.
 
2013-05-22 06:45:48 PM  

ontariolightning: This would get NEWSFLASH if it happened in the US


Agreed.
 
2013-05-22 06:47:40 PM  

Father_Jack: dforkus: Father_Jack: JabbaTheButt: Wake up.   As this murderer said,  Islam is at war with the West.

if i, as a californian, cut the head off a texan, and proclaim a californihad against the texas infidel, does that make it true?
if it happens again, and again, and again, and again, and all we hear from the Calfornian government is mealy mouthed half assed appolgies, interlaced with a littnanny of gripes about how the poor poor Calfornians are just so victimized by those big meany Texans? if that's all that ever happens, and there is no Californian commitment to actually address the problem?
Well... Yes,,,

replace californian with NRA... still make sense?


? What in Allah's holy name are you blathering about, or is this just some kind of guilty-white-liberal word salad. I see your NRA and raise you one Michelle Bachman!

Father_Jack: dforkus: jst3p: dforkus: This is Islam religion. This is what Islam religion  is.

yah, how many Quakers flew airplanes into the World Trade Center.

Yes yes, all religions have their share of whackos, from the WBC, to the nutbag that killed George tiller, but Islam's problem with people doing horrible antisocial acts in its name is especially pernicious.

tis true they have a serious branding problem, and there are a lot of nutbags committing crime in the name of their religion. we in the west dont need to kill in the name of christ any more, we have other causes and legitimize our violence through state-run militaries. if these guys had access to the same tools, i'm sure they'd do the same thing. But they dont, so they resort to this shiat, the same way we would if we were in their position.

blaming the religion is barking up the wrong tree in my opinion. its addressing a symptom and not the disease. if the states or proto-states which generate these assholes functioned, and if we as the global hegemon (the Western NATO democracies) woudl quit pursuing a foreign policy which fuels these dickwads this'd gradually improve.


Oh, I see, blaming the religion is "barking up the wrong tree", it's all our fault.

Bull farking shiat.
There are a billion hindus that are just as poor as the muslim underclass, hundreds of millions in central and south america that have been royally farked over by bad Western foreign policy, but they aren't hacking up people in the US/UK to "avenge their brothers"...

Islam's got a problem, a big farking problem, and they, so far, have been so wrapped up in their perpetual state of victimhood to really do anything about it.