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(NBC News)   Q: Why aren't more public storm shelters being built in Oklahoma? A: "This is a red state"   (openchannel.nbcnews.com ) divider line 313
    More: Sad, Oklahoma, safe rooms, storm shelter, trailer parks, emergency plan  
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5662 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 May 2013 at 4:15 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 02:02:02 PM  
Sure, a non-trivial investment is needed up front to build the shelters, and you'd think that exponentially increasing your survival rate in a tornado would be a good enough motivator for such expenditures.

But noooooo....if it costs money - especially evil gubmint money - then we can't do it at all!
 
2013-05-22 02:03:34 PM  
Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?
 
2013-05-22 02:07:19 PM  

dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?


Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.
 
2013-05-22 02:07:35 PM  
I think it's been well established that when it comes to tax dollars or the Second Amendment, a certain number of deaths are considered acceptable.
 
2013-05-22 02:08:14 PM  
"People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

Yet when it comes to disaster relief, they've got their hands out.
 
2013-05-22 02:10:19 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.


Indeed.  Most basements in the STL area fight a continual battle against leaks and seepage, due to shifts in the clay soil.  We have 2 that need to be repaired as I type this.  :(

That said though, even a shelter with a leak in it is better than nothing.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-22 02:11:54 PM  
"People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

But thet aren't bright enough to do it themselves.

The state has emphasized using federal funds to underwrite the optional construction of specially reinforced, above-ground "safe rooms" inside private homes rather than community tornado shelters.

And they want the government to do it for them.
 
2013-05-22 02:14:04 PM  
Why doesn't everyone just wear those flying-squirrel suits and glide to safety when a tornado hits?
 
2013-05-22 02:15:09 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.


Ok, so change my question to: Why in the fark would you move into a home in tornado alley that doesn't have a "safe room" built into it?
 
2013-05-22 02:15:16 PM  
If the government said "pounding discarded Budweiser caps up your urethra with the butt-end of a shotgun is a bad idea" you'd hear nothing but screams from behind the dumpster of every bar.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-22 02:15:25 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

Yet when it comes to disaster relief, they've got their hands out.


Not when it's for other people, only for them.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-22 02:17:58 PM  
dj_bigbird:

Ok, so change my question to: Why in the fark would you move into a home in tornado alley that doesn't have a "safe room" built into it?

Because they can't afford that and the collection of assault rifles and ammunition that they need to keep their family safe from the UN invasions.
 
2013-05-22 02:18:24 PM  

dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?


Because statistics. If you spend more on tornado shelters, you have to spend less on, perhaps, fire safety, or sidewalks, or public sanitation. Living in a "tornado alley" doesn't mean you're ever even going to see a tornado in your lifetime - it just means you're more likely to. If you look hard enough, you can always find someone who has hit the lottery twice - to some extent at least. This is the other end of that numbers game.
 
2013-05-22 02:18:26 PM  

vpb: "People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

But thet aren't bright enough to do it themselves.

The state has emphasized using federal funds to underwrite the optional construction of specially reinforced, above-ground "safe rooms" inside private homes rather than community tornado shelters.

And they want the government to do it for them.


and they don't want to pay for it themselves in any way, shape, or form.
 
2013-05-22 02:26:10 PM  

MisterTweak: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Because statistics. If you spend more on tornado shelters, you have to spend less on, perhaps, fire safety, or sidewalks, or public sanitation. Living in a "tornado alley" doesn't mean you're ever even going to see a tornado in your lifetime - it just means you're more likely to. If you look hard enough, you can always find someone who has hit the lottery twice - to some extent at least. This is the other end of that numbers game.


or, if they wanted to be really crazy, they could establish sufficient revenue streams to support the construction of the shelters while maintaining adequate public services.  Insane, I know.
 
2013-05-22 02:29:51 PM  
My parents built a very nice house in southern KS a few years ago, on a hill, with no basement or safe room. Their logic is that their neighbors have a basement. The nearest neighbor with a basement is 1/4 mile away, which doesn't seem that far until you take into consideration that my parents are in their 60's and both of them have had heart attacks.

They can afford a lovely little custom-built house with a waterfall and a pond, but not a simple storm shelter.
 
2013-05-22 02:32:19 PM  
Some asshole started in about "Obama and the Keystone pipeline" this morning and I shut his ass down istaed of just letting him go on about that shiat.
How many shelters could we subsidize if we cut of those farking oil companies?
 
2013-05-22 02:40:36 PM  

cretinbob: Some asshole started in about "Obama and the Keystone pipeline" this morning and I shut his ass down istaed of just letting him go on about that shiat.
How many shelters could we subsidize if we cut of those farking oil companies?


Nicely done!  Some other good alternatives could be:

How many shelters could we build for the cost of....

--one F35 alternative engine?
--one Littoral Combat Ship
--one row of M1 tanks that the Army doesn't need
--one more payment to the MEADS missile system that the Army won't actually buy
--one year of sugar subsidies, or farm subsidies, or Monsanto subsidies
--one House vote to repeal HCA
--one session in front of Federal court defending DOMA
 
2013-05-22 02:57:54 PM  
Get boot-strappy and build yourself your own storm shelter.
 
2013-05-22 03:26:28 PM  
off......
 
2013-05-22 03:28:05 PM  

oldfarthenry: Why doesn't everyone just wear those flying-squirrel suits and glide to safety when a tornado hits?


Let's see...

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.ht ml

Ctrl-F: "flying squirrel suits"

Nope, can't do it.
 
2013-05-22 03:31:00 PM  

MisterTweak: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Because statistics. If you spend more on tornado shelters, you have to spend less on, perhaps, fire safety, or sidewalks, or public sanitation. Living in a "tornado alley" doesn't mean you're ever even going to see a tornado in your lifetime - it just means you're more likely to. If you look hard enough, you can always find someone who has hit the lottery twice - to some extent at least. This is the other end of that numbers game.


You didn't answer my question. If you were house shopping, would get a house without a bathroom? No, you wouldn't. If you're buying a house in tornado alley, why would you buy one that didn't have its own safe room?
 
2013-05-22 03:37:02 PM  
Live by the red state philosophy, die by the red state philosophy.
Unfortunately you killed your own kids this time. Happy?
 
2013-05-22 03:37:05 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

Yet when it comes to disaster relief, they've got their hands out.


Next you'll tell me the state's economy is massively dependent on government farm subsidies. Madness!
 
2013-05-22 03:38:56 PM  

dj_bigbird: You didn't answer my question. If you were house shopping, would get a house without a bathroom? No, you wouldn't. If you're buying a house in tornado alley, why would you buy one that didn't have its own safe room?


What are the odds you'll have to go to the bathroom?    Would you pay an extra $2,500 (low end) for a house with a bathroom if you only used it once every 5-10 years?
 
2013-05-22 03:40:55 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Gecko Gingrich: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.

Indeed.  Most basements in the STL area fight a continual battle against leaks and seepage, due to shifts in the clay soil.  We have 2 that need to be repaired as I type this.  :(

That said though, even a shelter with a leak in it is better than nothing.


My understanding from the other Oklahoma tornado threads is that it's not just problems with leaks. The basements tend to become unstable in just a few years, which in turn can affect the above ground portions of the homes,
 
2013-05-22 03:41:40 PM  

dj_bigbird: If you're buying a house in tornado alley, why would you buy one that didn't have its own safe room?


Likely for the same reason that one wouldn't buy one that has a pool: It was deemed an unnecessary expense. I know, I know, "But a pool is a luxury!" and you're right. However, if one could buy one house with a storm shelter for $160K and one - otherwise identical - house for $150K without said shelter, most folks would rationalize the $10K savings ("What are the chances we'll even see a tornado, mush less a big one?", "We have insurance.") and go with that one. It doesn't seem logical, and in fact it's not, but that's humans for you.
 
2013-05-22 03:42:21 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.


According to the article an above ground storm shelter costs $6,000 to $8,000 and seems like one hell of an investment.  Not only does it increase the value of your home, it will save the lives of you and your family members.

Going forward, the state should mandate the building of storm shelters for all new residential or apartment construction.
 
2013-05-22 03:42:32 PM  
Turns out that holding onto your bootstraps doesn't work in anything over an F3.
 
2013-05-22 03:46:21 PM  

vpb: "People don't like anything that is mandated. They don't like it when the government says they have to do something."

But thet aren't bright enough to do it themselves.

The state has emphasized using federal funds to underwrite the optional construction of specially reinforced, above-ground "safe rooms" inside private homes rather than community tornado shelters.

And they want the government to do it for them.


Government spending is fine with nearly everyone - it just depends on what the spending is for. Whenever I'm having a conversation about politics (and I try to avoid that in the real world) and the other guy says it's about spending, only decorum prevents me from rolling my eyes.
 
2013-05-22 03:46:23 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Likely for the same reason that one wouldn't buy one that has a pool: It was deemed an unnecessary expense. I know, I know, "But a pool is a luxury!" and you're right. However, if one could buy one house with a storm shelter for $160K and one - otherwise identical - house for $150K without said shelter, most folks would rationalize the $10K savings ("What are the chances we'll even see a tornado, mush less a big one?", "We have insurance.") and go with that one. It doesn't seem logical, and in fact it's not, but that's humans for you.


Which is why building codes should be updated to require them on all new construction.  That's how California dealt with the Earthquake damage, and its worked out real well.
 
2013-05-22 03:47:17 PM  
There's probably a joke about believing in evolutionary natural selection here, but I'm not quite cold-hearted enough to nail it down.

dj_bigbird: You didn't answer my question. If you were house shopping, would get a house without a bathroom? No, you wouldn't.


As of 1990, roughly 1% of Oklahoma housing units lacked "complete plumbing" (missing one of: hot and cold piped water, a bathtub or shower, a flush toilet); slightly better than the US overall (1.1%).
 
2013-05-22 03:47:26 PM  

ShawnDoc: Gecko Gingrich: dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?

Second sentence of the article:

Much of the soil in Oklahoma, including Moore, is red clay -- a porous substance that makes foundations settle and basements and underground tornado shelters leak.

According to the article an above ground storm shelter costs $6,000 to $8,000 and seems like one hell of an investment.  Not only does it increase the value of your home, it will save the lives of you and your family members.

Going forward, the state should mandate the building of storm shelters for all new residential or apartment construction.


Yeah, but that would cost money, so we can't do that.  The ability to save a life with a moderate investment is inconsequential next to the power of the Derp Side.
 
2013-05-22 03:53:21 PM  
There ought to be a law that any and every building constructed in the US have a safe room to prevent death and or injury from the natural occurrences indicative to the region in which the building is constructed.
 
2013-05-22 03:54:32 PM  
Conservatives= Common Good? Doesn't affect me, so fark you.
 
2013-05-22 03:59:49 PM  
Basements are not that uncommon in okla, but they are right about the clay causing a lot of foundation shifts, cracks in basements/shelters.  Also, in certain areas, radon is a problem.  In my neighborhood, just my block, there are at least five tornado shelters in back yards.

/have a daylight basement
//with a very accessible crawlspace with the door in said basement.
 
2013-05-22 04:06:26 PM  
ok that is actually a p good headline

that's like the second time I've ever said that so congrats submitter you are off the hook this time
 
2013-05-22 04:13:03 PM  
Cause they don't like being told they have to do something.  Don't stand on the train tracks?  I'll show them.
 
2013-05-22 04:14:41 PM  
 SoonerSafe pays homeowners 75 percent of the cost of building a safe room, up to $2,000. But again, the money is federal, pulled from the state's unused FEMA funds, and winners are chosen via lottery. In 2012, 16,000 homeowners applied, and 500 "won" the reimbursements via random drawing.

Congratulations to the 3.125% of you who "won".  The other 96.875%?  Well...there's always next year.... or maybe not.
 
2013-05-22 04:16:07 PM  

oldfarthenry: Why doesn't everyone just wear those flying-squirrel suits and glide to safety when a tornado hits?


I was thinking more along the lines of human sized, bubble wrapped reinforced, hamster balls.

gamecrazeparty.com

Sure, some people might get blown out over a lake or washed downriver, but stick a name and address sticker on it and eventually they'd find their way home.
 
2013-05-22 04:17:56 PM  

dj_bigbird: Why in the fark would you buy a house in a known tornado alley without a basement or other shelter?


What I'm wondering.
 
2013-05-22 04:19:20 PM  
look the important thing in the wake of a natural disaster is to find a way to blame the victims
 
2013-05-22 04:21:48 PM  
We'd rather see our children die than ask for help from the government!
 
2013-05-22 04:23:58 PM  
Poor and stupid is no way to go threw life, y'all.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:14 PM  
This is an excellent opportunity for profit for private industry. Build shelters, then demand everyone signs over all of their worldly possessions before they're allowed inside to save their own lives.

It'd be kind of like our current health care system.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:14 PM  
Toby Keith needs to put a foot up Mother Nature's ass.

Where I grew up, any new home construction in flood prone areas had to be 'stilt homes'. Mandate it safety structures for new homes. Anybody that's against it likely doesn't have the means to leave their trailer park anyway.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:27 PM  

Jackson Herring: look the important thing in the wake of a natural disaster is to find a way to blame the victims


Well duh! If they weren't so weak they wouldn't have got hurt.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:43 PM  
www.csmonitor.com

Now listen red states, pounding discarded Budweiser caps up your urethra with the butt-end of a shotgun is a bad idea.
 
2013-05-22 04:26:46 PM  
Everyone has to evaluate their locality for acceptable risk.  It should never, ever be acceptable to buy or rent a home without adequate storm protection in this locality.  Not if you love your family or value your life and income.  Just like it should never, ever be acceptable to buy a home in the middle of a dry forest without an adequate fire suppression system.

Gee, I could buy this house cheaper because it's all I can afford or want to save $10k...or I can not lose everything and everyone I value or die horribly in a tornado.  Hmm, maybe I'll rent or just not live here.  In fact,  if I have to, I can obtain basic public assistance to help with finding a more suitable local.
 
2013-05-22 04:28:18 PM  
ignorance  bliss
 
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