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(Who Ate All The Pies)   Your local soccer team is relegated out of the top division. Do you: C) Buy some other city's team, move them to your town and continue on as if nothing has happened   (whoateallthepies.tv) divider line 23
    More: Asinine, Queretaro FC, Owner Simply, Queretaro, Mexican, Puebla  
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1410 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 May 2013 at 3:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 03:36:45 PM
Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.
 
2013-05-22 03:46:28 PM

timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.


The team he owned just got relegated to the 2nd division of Mexican soccer, so he bought a team located across the country and is applying to move that team to his city, instead of trying to get his team to work their way back up to the top level

Think of it like this:

For some reason, MLB decides to adopt promotion/relegation, and as such, the Pirates get relegated to AAA. Instead of trying to get the Pirates to work their way back up, their owner instead tries to buy the Phillies and move them to Pittsburgh to replace the Pirates. If that makes sense
 
2013-05-22 03:46:38 PM

timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.


You know the whole 'what if the Royals were shoved into AAA' baseball analogy we toss around? The thing that never gets brought up is that, once the Royals are in AAA, they could win their way back into the majors, possibly the very next season. This team could still win its way back into the top division; the owner just decided he didn't feel like it and now has two teams, one in the first tier and one in the second, while some other city now has no team at all in any tier.

Relocation happens in the US, Mexico and your western Pacific Rim nations, but outside of them, relocation is unheard of for that reason. Your team still exists. Shut up and win your way back.
 
2013-05-22 03:47:37 PM
Beat by ten frickin' seconds.
 
2013-05-22 03:48:14 PM
We should have this in the NFL.
 
2013-05-22 04:05:03 PM

JohnAnnArbor: We should have this in the NFL.


And relegate crappy teams to what, exactly? College? AFL?
 
2013-05-22 04:10:21 PM

Gosling: timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.

You know the whole 'what if the Royals were shoved into AAA' baseball analogy we toss around? The thing that never gets brought up is that, once the Royals are in AAA, they could win their way back into the majors, possibly the very next season. This team could still win its way back into the top division; the owner just decided he didn't feel like it and now has two teams, one in the first tier and one in the second, while some other city now has no team at all in any tier.

Relocation happens in the US, Mexico and your western Pacific Rim nations, but outside of them, relocation is unheard of for that reason. Your team still exists. Shut up and win your way back.


So what you are saying is that the Royals are the US's version of Wigan Athletic?
 
2013-05-22 04:16:30 PM

Woolwine: timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.

The team he owned just got relegated to the 2nd division of Mexican soccer, so he bought a team located across the country and is applying to move that team to his city, instead of trying to get his team to work their way back up to the top level

Think of it like this:

For some reason, MLB decides to adopt promotion/relegation, and as such, the Pirates get relegated to AAA. Instead of trying to get the Pirates to work their way back up, their owner instead tries to buy the Phillies and move them to Pittsburgh to replace the Pirates. If that makes sense


It does, but I still don't see why that's a big deal.  I mean, I get that he should have let his current team try to win their way back to 1st Tier, he did this mere weeks after they lost it, but now his town has two teams.  It sounds like the team he's bringing in was struggling where they were anyway, so it's a win for him, for the fans and for the new team.  The old team, not so much.  Now if the old team does make it back to 1st Tier and then competes against and beats the new guys, that sounds like a fun sports movie.
 
2013-05-22 04:19:57 PM

grinding_journalist: JohnAnnArbor: We should have this in the NFL.

And relegate crappy teams to what, exactly? College? AFL?


Split the NFL into two 16-team leagues that don't play each other.  Best four teams of the second league go up the next year and vice versa.

The fun for Lions fans: would we ever go up?
 
2013-05-22 04:28:38 PM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-22 04:50:17 PM
Why can't we do this to the Astros and Marlins?
 
2013-05-22 05:30:26 PM

Myria: Why can't we do this to the Astros and Marlins?


Here's what I wonder then:  do we bring up their AAA teams, or do we bring up the best AAA teams that belong to other MLB franchises?  I'm sure the parent clubs that (theoretically) now would have two MLB clubs would LOVE to pay two teams worth of MLB-structured salaries or so on.

I love the idea of relegation/promotion, but with how the minors are structured, it's impossible to pull off.
 
2013-05-22 06:06:50 PM

SnatchMcGillicudy: Myria: Why can't we do this to the Astros and Marlins?

Here's what I wonder then:  do we bring up their AAA teams, or do we bring up the best AAA teams that belong to other MLB franchises?  I'm sure the parent clubs that (theoretically) now would have two MLB clubs would LOVE to pay two teams worth of MLB-structured salaries or so on.


As long as both teams pulled in MLB revenue, I don't think it would matter.  If, for example, the Giants and A's were owned by the same person or the Orioles and Nationals or Mets and Yankees.  As long as the area financially support two MLB franchises, it wouldn't matter.  Of course not every area can afford two major league teams.
 
2013-05-22 07:47:17 PM
Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder are likely very interested in this solution.
 
2013-05-22 08:39:01 PM
Something that would work in North American baseball would be to unify the various top-tier summer leagues (as well as any independent leagues). Organize them into first and second levels, then proceed. Next year, the Astros go down and the Leones from the zone mexican league come up.

Include Japan and Worst Korea if you can make the travel work, too.
 
2013-05-22 09:24:07 PM

Gosling: Relocation happens in the US, Mexico and your western Pacific Rim nations, but outside of them, relocation is unheard of for that reason. Your team still exists. Shut up and win your way back.


But if you can't relocate teams, how will team owners get publicly funded stadiums? Without the threat to move to Los Angeles, Atlanta might not have given Falcon's owner Arthur Blank somewhere between $400,000,000 and $900,000,000 (nobody knows the actual amount even though its public money). Won't somebody think of the billionaires?

/ok, Blank didn't personally threaten to move to LA, he got one of his lackeys to do it for him
 
2013-05-22 09:24:39 PM

JayCab: Something that would work in North American baseball would be to unify the various top-tier summer leagues (as well as any independent leagues). Organize them into first and second levels, then proceed. Next year, the Astros go down and the Leones from the zone mexican league come up.

Include Japan and Worst Korea if you can make the travel work, too.


There's no way to get travel to work in an everyday sport like baseball.  It barely works for a weekly sport like American Football when they travel over to England
 
2013-05-22 10:33:18 PM

Woolwine: timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.

The team he owned just got relegated to the 2nd division of Mexican soccer, so he bought a team located across the country and is applying to move that team to his city, instead of trying to get his team to work their way back up to the top level

Think of it like this:

For some reason, MLB decides to adopt promotion/relegation, and as such, the Pirates get relegated to AAA. Instead of trying to get the Pirates to work their way back up, their owner instead tries to buy the Phillies and move them to Pittsburgh to replace the Pirates. If that makes sense


Also: That's almost the norm in the Mexican League.  I seem to recall a playoff in the second division of the Mexican League where had one of the teams won, the owner would sell it to a group that would've moved the club to Acapulco or something like that.

Not the first time I've heard of teams being sold and moved because the ownership wants a team in the top flight of Mexico.   Won't be the last time.
 
2013-05-22 10:41:44 PM

timujin: Woolwine: timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.

The team he owned just got relegated to the 2nd division of Mexican soccer, so he bought a team located across the country and is applying to move that team to his city, instead of trying to get his team to work their way back up to the top level

Think of it like this:

For some reason, MLB decides to adopt promotion/relegation, and as such, the Pirates get relegated to AAA. Instead of trying to get the Pirates to work their way back up, their owner instead tries to buy the Phillies and move them to Pittsburgh to replace the Pirates. If that makes sense

It does, but I still don't see why that's a big deal.  I mean, I get that he should have let his current team try to win their way back to 1st Tier, he did this mere weeks after they lost it, but now his town has two teams.  It sounds like the team he's bringing in was struggling where they were anyway, so it's a win for him, for the fans and for the new team.  The old team, not so much.  Now if the old team does make it back to 1st Tier and then competes against and beats the new guys, that sounds like a fun sports movie.


The old Queretaro were actually a playoff team this season in the Clausura of Liga MX.  However, because of their poor performances in the three seasons prior to that, they were still relegated and not allowed to be in the playoffs.

Mexico's relegation format is unique because of their League format.  Relegation is based on a points-per-games played format over three/four seasons; so if you've gotten the least amount of points in the seasons prior to the current one, you'd be relegated.

Even when the old League was a full season ala the European leagues, the league format was still a points-per-games played over three seasons, including the current one they would play.
 
2013-05-23 12:09:35 AM
so how many pesos are we talkn about?
 
2013-05-23 12:09:44 AM

Rwa2play: timujin: Woolwine: timujin: Not sure why this is "asinine" or "madness gone mad"... so the guy is bringing a team into town, what's the big deal?  Maybe I just don't understand because I'm an American and am used to seeing football and baseball teams move around now and again.

The team he owned just got relegated to the 2nd division of Mexican soccer, so he bought a team located across the country and is applying to move that team to his city, instead of trying to get his team to work their way back up to the top level

Think of it like this:

For some reason, MLB decides to adopt promotion/relegation, and as such, the Pirates get relegated to AAA. Instead of trying to get the Pirates to work their way back up, their owner instead tries to buy the Phillies and move them to Pittsburgh to replace the Pirates. If that makes sense

It does, but I still don't see why that's a big deal.  I mean, I get that he should have let his current team try to win their way back to 1st Tier, he did this mere weeks after they lost it, but now his town has two teams.  It sounds like the team he's bringing in was struggling where they were anyway, so it's a win for him, for the fans and for the new team.  The old team, not so much.  Now if the old team does make it back to 1st Tier and then competes against and beats the new guys, that sounds like a fun sports movie.

The old Queretaro were actually a playoff team this season in the Clausura of Liga MX.  However, because of their poor performances in the three seasons prior to that, they were still relegated and not allowed to be in the playoffs.

Mexico's relegation format is unique because of their League format.  Relegation is based on a points-per-games played format over three/four seasons; so if you've gotten the least amount of points in the seasons prior to the current one, you'd be relegated.

Even when the old League was a full season ala the European leagues, the league format was still a points-per-games played over three s ...


The rules are so convoluted b/c pro/reg is not sustainable for most countries. I think it was Club America or Cruz Azul who were going to be relegated, and they changed the rules on the fly to protect the league's finances, as a whole. Imagine La Liga if Real or Barca get demoted? Before you laugh, Juve and Rangers got sent down for fixing or bankruptcy. You don't have to actually lose to go down. And La Liga's finances would not survive w/o those two teams. The Scottish league is in shambles, even before Rangers went down. Pro/reg only works w/ massive "safety cushion" payments, and most leagues don't have enough left over cash, split between all of the teams, to use as a lifeline to protect the low end teams. Hell, they don't even protect the top flight teams from insolvency, most of the time. We'll see pro/reg removed from Europe before we see it adopted in the US. Since the rules are so dumb and broken so openly, I'm surprised FMF doesn't do away w/ it now. Take some initiative.
 
2013-05-23 01:20:38 AM
Damn, Mexican league has relegation and the US has MLS.  We are screwed.
 
2013-05-23 02:29:03 AM

timujin: Now if the old team does make it back to 1st Tier and then competes against and beats the new guys, that sounds like a fun sports movie.


That won't happen. What will actually happen is the lower-tier club will just become a feeder to the higher-tier club (read 'feeder club' as 'glorified farm team').

Trocadero: The rules are so convoluted b/c pro/reg is not sustainable for most countries. I think it was Club America or Cruz Azul who were going to be relegated, and they changed the rules on the fly to protect the league's finances, as a whole. Imagine La Liga if Real or Barca get demoted? Before you laugh, Juve and Rangers got sent down for fixing or bankruptcy. You don't have to actually lose to go down. And La Liga's finances would not survive w/o those two teams. The Scottish league is in shambles, even before Rangers went down. Pro/reg only works w/ massive "safety cushion" payments, and most leagues don't have enough left over cash, split between all of the teams, to use as a lifeline to protect the low end teams. Hell, they don't even protect the top flight teams from insolvency, most of the time. We'll see pro/reg removed from Europe before we see it adopted in the US. Since the rules are so dumb and broken so openly, I'm surprised FMF doesn't do away w/ it now. Take some initiative.


Mexico does it like this and Argentina does too, but they're the only ones who do. The reason is that it's completely unfair to the clubs at the bottom of the table and just makes for a nigh-untouchable elite. The clubs most often relegated are the ones that just showed up, and they get relegated because things that happened in seasons where they weren't even present set the bar so high for them to clear that even a respectable first season can get them sent back down. If the same thing happened in England, it might have been Southampton sent down instead of Wigan despite Southampton finishing 14th and Wigan 18th. Southampton would scream bloody murder and they'd have every farking right to scream bloody murder.
 
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