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(Boston Herald)   Boston Marathon bombing suspect gets death penalty   (bostonherald.com) divider line 144
    More: Florida, Boston Marathon, Herald, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, Boylston Street, Subdivisions of Russia, death penalty, Chechen  
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15812 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2013 at 9:18 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 11:12:05 AM

Odd Bird: NBC reporting he had a knife.


Meh.  I *ALWAYS* have a knife on me (pocket knife).  

nekom: Odd Bird: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting....

NBC reporting he had a knife.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/22/18418012-man-with-ties-to -b oston-bombing-suspect-shot-during-fbi-questioning?lite

I think a few pieces are missing and speculation is filling the void.

If he had a knife, that changes the story drastically.  Attacking a police officer with a knife is suicidally foolish.


I would note that *HAVING* a knife, and *USING* a knife are two separate things.

I habitually carry a knife, and I use it every day, but for things like opening cans and cutting string and the like.
 
2013-05-22 11:13:54 AM
"as shot and killed after attacking an FBI agent during questioning in Florida"
Wait wait wait wait.
So while in FBI custody, they murdered him?
NICE
If only there were secure rooms for questioning. Some kind of "restraining" devices. Or glass walls. Or other "PEOPLE" who could have been in the room to assist.
What a bunch of tools.

But at least he is dead, so there is no way to find out if Obama was behind everything. We need to get this INFO to RUSH!
 
2013-05-22 11:13:58 AM

Rapmaster2000: Chechnya and may have been heading back to the lawless Russian region today.

That's a strange bit of editorializing.


Apparently you're unfamiliar with Boston newspapers.
 
2013-05-22 11:14:30 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: The Agent in question.

[forum.thesimpson.it image 320x240]


this
 
2013-05-22 11:15:30 AM
www.biography.com
 
2013-05-22 11:20:14 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: CrazyCracka420: Magnus: skankboy: king_nacho: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting....

uh, where did you read he was unarmed?

uh, he was being interviewed for hours by the FBI.  You don't think they do a pat down?

uhhhhhh

uhhh

Depends on where the interview takes place.  If the FBI comes to you home to do an interview, they have no authority to do a pat down.  If you go to their office, they can since it is FBI property.  If they do a field interview with no probable cause that you have engaged in any criminal activity, no they cannot.

I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you.  Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety.  Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.

How does that square even a little bit with the 4th Amendment? I think they can ask and you can refuse, but they don't handle rejection well.


For the officers safety.  IANAL but I think they still need reasonable belief that you might be armed or some such.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio
 
2013-05-22 11:23:22 AM

TommyJReed: My completely uninformed and spurious guess is that this guy was already unstable and prone to violence, based on the fact that he committed some serious unlicensed fist dentistry on man over a parking space.

When you take someone that unstable and apply large amounts of psychological pressure, like an FBI interrogation, you are probably more likely to see a spectacular blow out then get the desired results.

My Guess is that the agents shifted from "friendly" questions to hardball, throwing around words like "Obstruction" and threatened him with jail time if he didn't start answering their questions; and he panicked and did the first thing that came to mind which was punch the problem until it goes away.


Oh, there's a lot more to it than that...

FTA in the Orlando Sentinel
"Their throats had been cut, and their bodies were covered with marijuana. No suspects had been arrested in that case, but it has been reported that authorities suspected Tamerlan Tsarnaev was also involved in that triple murder. "
 
2013-05-22 11:24:41 AM

Son of Thunder: Magnus: RedPhoenix122: JPSimonetti: Isn't there a point at which your body is legally considered a lethal weapon? I remember reading a story a long time ago about a golden glove boxer an Army Ranger that killed some guy in a drunken brawl and he was charged with using a deadly weapon. Would that justify lethal force by law enforcement? I don't know.

And now you have the plot of Con Air

HA!  You would be CORRECT, sir.

Oh BS. That in NO way resembles the plot if Con Air, and you are a stupid stupid person for saying so.

Con Air was about a bunny that should have been left in the box.


You're right.   Two bunnies in the box, one in the bush, boss.
 
2013-05-22 11:28:21 AM

CrazyCracka420: Magnus: skankboy: king_nacho: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting....

uh, where did you read he was unarmed?

uh, he was being interviewed for hours by the FBI.  You don't think they do a pat down?

uhhhhhh

uhhh

Depends on where the interview takes place.  If the FBI comes to you home to do an interview, they have no authority to do a pat down.  If you go to their office, they can since it is FBI property.  If they do a field interview with no probable cause that you have engaged in any criminal activity, no they cannot.

I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you.  Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety.  Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.


Not anytime.  They have to have probable cause that you are engaged in criminal activity.  But one man's probable cause is another cop's suspect-signed-a-confession-but-my-police-dog-ate-it.
 
2013-05-22 11:28:59 AM

Son of Thunder: Now, I am not denying that the popularity of UFC has caused a surge in BS "MMA" schools, exactly as we saw a surge in BS "kung fu" instructors in the 70s and BS "ninjas" in the 80s. But just going by your comment, what you describe is typical.


That explains things quite a bit.

I enrolled my son in martial arts, but I had to do like months worth like investigation to find a dojo that had a decent program and good instructors.
 
2013-05-22 11:31:40 AM

namatad: "as shot and killed after attacking an FBI agent during questioning in Florida"
Wait wait wait wait.
So while in FBI custody, they murdered him?
NICE
If only there were secure rooms for questioning. Some kind of "restraining" devices. Or glass walls. Or other "PEOPLE" who could have been in the room to assist.
What a bunch of tools.

But at least he is dead, so there is no way to find out if Obama was behind everything. We need to get this INFO to RUSH!


Read the Orlando Sentinel article linked to earlier.  He was confessing to participating in a triple homicide.  He was in his own home.  He charged them with a knife.  Monday morning quarterbacking doesn't make this a police abuse of power.  Just based on what's in the article, this looks like a justified police involved self-defense shooting.  These things DO happen on occasion.  It's the nature of the work.
 
2013-05-22 11:33:49 AM
ftfa:
Orlando police also told the Herald the FBI is in charge of the fatal shooting at the Windhover Apartments.

The dead guy was not under arrest, he was not taken into custody, he apparently was being interviewed in his own apartment.  According to NBC news he was somehow involved in the 2011 triple murder in Waltham.  But don't let that slow down the farking conspiracy theories.
 
2013-05-22 11:34:28 AM

RedPhoenix122: JPSimonetti: Isn't there a point at which your body is legally considered a lethal weapon? I remember reading a story a long time ago about a golden glove boxer an Army Ranger that killed some guy in a drunken brawl and he was charged with using a deadly weapon. Would that justify lethal force by law enforcement? I don't know.

And now you have the plot of Con Air


I lol'd.
 
2013-05-22 11:35:56 AM

BitwiseShift: Why the Florida tag for a Boston Herald story.


Why do you ask questions when you clearly haven't read TFA?
 
2013-05-22 11:36:17 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: CrazyCracka420: Magnus: skankboy: king_nacho: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting....

uh, where did you read he was unarmed?

uh, he was being interviewed for hours by the FBI.  You don't think they do a pat down?

uhhhhhh

uhhh

Depends on where the interview takes place.  If the FBI comes to you home to do an interview, they have no authority to do a pat down.  If you go to their office, they can since it is FBI property.  If they do a field interview with no probable cause that you have engaged in any criminal activity, no they cannot.

I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you.  Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety.  Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.

How does that square even a little bit with the 4th Amendment? I think they can ask and you can refuse, but they don't handle rejection well.


They can ask.  You can refuse.  And that could possibly be used as rationalization of their probable cause. It hopefully wouldn't pass a court review, but it happens all the time and courts tend to give LE lots of leeway in their discretion.  Ain't that a helluva Catch-22?
 
2013-05-22 11:36:59 AM
The suspect is deceased. We do not have any further details at this time. We expect to have more information later this morning...

... Once we get our story straight.
 
2013-05-22 11:41:14 AM

SweetDickens: He was Dornered.


Well done!
 
2013-05-22 11:43:36 AM

Chameleon: I'm not going to speak as to whether this was or was not justified, but it did make me wonder what percent of shooting deaths in this country are at the hands of police.


I could tell you but then I'd have to shoot you to neutralize the threat.
 
2013-05-22 11:48:23 AM

CrazyCracka420: I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you.  Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety.  Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.


Unless it's a "Terry stop" (i.e., unless the officer has reasonable suspicion that you're involved in criminal activity) you're under no obligation to "chat."  Patting you down would constitute unreasonable search/seizure.

/At least, that's how it works in theory.  In reality, you'd get your ass kicked for asserting your rights, you'd be charged with resisting arrest and felonious assault on a police officer, you'd lose your job and never be employable again, and the officer would be commended.
 
2013-05-22 11:55:22 AM
His left hand was an ak-47 and his right hand was another ak-47
 
2013-05-22 11:55:38 AM

BitwiseShift: Why the Florida tag for a Boston Herald story.

When Joe Dweasel calls Chechnya a lawless Russian region as an aside you figger he's been snorting that tabloid ink again.

His interesting angle that it was an FBI hit is about all he's got going.


Look at his nose. That's why you need the Florida tag...
 
2013-05-22 12:00:29 PM

IdBeCrazyIf: Son of Thunder: Now, I am not denying that the popularity of UFC has caused a surge in BS "MMA" schools, exactly as we saw a surge in BS "kung fu" instructors in the 70s and BS "ninjas" in the 80s. But just going by your comment, what you describe is typical.

That explains things quite a bit.

I enrolled my son in martial arts, but I had to do like months worth like investigation to find a dojo that had a decent program and good instructors.


Good on you for putting in the legwork. My oldest daughter is almost old enough to start, and I'm in the process of checking out the local judo club.
 
2013-05-22 12:05:26 PM

nekom: Pretty bizarre twist.  It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.  Also, what IS American law enforcement's fascination with shooting unarmed people?


The armed ones shoot back. And given the inability of Johnny Law to hit the broad side of a barn from 10 paces, they don't want to get involved in that sort of situation.
 
2013-05-22 12:06:20 PM

KellyX: Better Story including name of suspect, etc.


nekom: Pretty bizarre twist.  It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.  Also, what IS American law enforcement's fascination with shooting unarmed people?


I've just started reading the thread so it's possible someone has already pointed this out.

From the news story linked by KellyX, it appears the suspect attacked with a knife. He was not unarmed.
 
2013-05-22 12:07:33 PM

Son of Thunder: Good on you for putting in the legwork. My oldest daughter is almost old enough to start, and I'm in the process of checking out the local judo club.


He landed in taekwondo and the school he is at doesn't limit themselves to the sport version I guess. They apparently throw in some judo and korean wrestling along with less focus on the leg strikes and more focus on take downs. They also heavily focus on the discipline aspect and have age and time limits on rank advancements.

And apparently the instructors were like world farking champions back in 2010 and some shiat.

I'm still baffled why they chose Indiana of all places to open a school.
 
2013-05-22 12:17:30 PM

Magnus: Depends on where the interview takes place. If the FBI comes to you home to do an interview, they have no authority to do a pat down. If you go to their office, they can since it is FBI property. If they do a field interview with no probable cause that you have engaged in any criminal activity, no they cannot.

I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you. Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety. Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.

How does that square even a little bit with the 4th Amendment? I think they can ask and you can refuse, but they don't handle rejection well.

They can ask. You can refuse. And that could possibly be used as rationalization of their probable cause. It hopefully wouldn't pass a court review, but it happens all the time and courts tend to give LE lots of leeway in their discretion. Ain't that a helluva Catch-22?


Basically, what you guys are talking about is the Terry standard and its extension over the years. The cops can search you when a) they think you've been committing or are going to commit a crime and b) they think you could be armed and dangerous. So there has to be a reasonable suspicion for the stop, and then a reasonable suspicion for the frisk in a stop and frisk. The most recent case on this is Arizona v. Johnson from 2009.

So, to clarify, the cop can't just harass you on the street for no reason, he has to think you're up to something. Then he has to think you're armed and dangerous, and then he can only do a surface pat-down to make sure you're not carrying a knife or a gun. When the cop comes to your house, his rights are even more restricted. He can't come inside without your consent, he can't search without your consent, and you don't have to talk to him. Hell, he can't even arrest you without a warrant at your house (but he sure as hell can elsewhere). And refusal of consent can never count as probable cause. That doesn't stop a cop from saying "he was looking shifty and there was an odor of alcohol on his breath" but hey, if a cop's gonna lie, he's going to fark you over anyway - you don't have to help him and it might be something your lawyer can latch onto later.

Now, when you're on the cop's turf, there's all sorts of things that he can do. First, he can have all sorts of security measures in place because it's his turf, and searching you would be part of those. When you've been arrested, there's a compelling governmental interest in keeping contraband and/or weapons out of jails and prisons, so he can search you then to make sure you're not carrying any. If he arrests you at a traffic stop, he can toss your car at the impound lot to make an inventory so you can't sue the cops later for stealing the Creedence.
 
2013-05-22 12:24:03 PM
I loved hearing from the guy that actually broke the guy's nose in an interview awhile back to make it look that funky.  Can't remember his name, but he said he was going to be proud to be able to tell his kids that HE was the guy that messed up his nose.....made me laugh!

/in a good way
 
2013-05-22 12:32:59 PM
He wasn't given the death penalty.
He was detained without the right of correspondence...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_the_right_of_correspondence
 
2013-05-22 12:33:35 PM

Maud Dib: Jeez, dude had a face only a blind mother could love.

[www.boston.com image 399x499]


Nah, that dude is just fast.  That is a picture of him taking off to the left.  He's so fast his face has to catch up with him.
 
2013-05-22 12:35:12 PM

trappedspirit: His left hand was an ak-47 and his right hand was another ak-47


Which means a banana and a loganberry. At least they used the right way to disarm him.
 
2013-05-22 12:39:42 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: SoupJohnB: Bit'O'Gristle: reillan: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting..

/sf. that scene in "Indiana Jones," as long as we're referencing movies

//y'all know the scene I mean

It's the one with the fridge, right? Man what a great scene.


No, not that one.

/the other one

//in the other movie with no nukes
 
2013-05-22 12:47:44 PM

phyrkrakr: Magnus: Depends on where the interview takes place. If the FBI comes to you home to do an interview, they have no authority to do a pat down. If you go to their office, they can since it is FBI property. If they do a field interview with no probable cause that you have engaged in any criminal activity, no they cannot.

I'm pretty sure the police can pat you down any time they talk to you. Maybe not if they come to your house or other private building, but if a cop stops you on the street to "chat" with you, they can pat you down for their safety. Pretty bullshiat to me, but that's always been my take on it.

How does that square even a little bit with the 4th Amendment? I think they can ask and you can refuse, but they don't handle rejection well.

They can ask. You can refuse. And that could possibly be used as rationalization of their probable cause. It hopefully wouldn't pass a court review, but it happens all the time and courts tend to give LE lots of leeway in their discretion. Ain't that a helluva Catch-22?

Basically, what you guys are talking about is the Terry standard and its extension over the years. The cops can search you when a) they think you've been committing or are going to commit a crime and b) they think you could be armed and dangerous. So there has to be a reasonable suspicion for the stop, and then a reasonable suspicion for the frisk in a stop and frisk. The most recent case on this is Arizona v. Johnson from 2009.

So, to clarify, the cop can't just harass you on the street for no reason, he has to think you're up to something. Then he has to think you're armed and dangerous, and then he can only do a surface pat-down to make sure you're not carrying a knife or a gun. When the cop comes to your house, his rights are even more restricted. He can't come inside without your consent, he can't search without your consent, and you don't have to talk to him. Hell, he can't even arrest you without a warrant at your house (but he sure ...


Yeah,  but I don't get paid by the word.
 
2013-05-22 12:51:07 PM

SoupJohnB: UrukHaiGuyz: SoupJohnB: Bit'O'Gristle: reillan: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting..

/sf. that scene in "Indiana Jones," as long as we're referencing movies

//y'all know the scene I mean

It's the one with the fridge, right? Man what a great scene.

No, not that one.

/the other one

//in the other movie with no nukes


The one where Karen Allen is standing on the deck of the freighter in that silk nightie, and the wind is pressing it against her body?  'Cause that's an awesome scene.
 
2013-05-22 01:17:20 PM

dittybopper: SoupJohnB: UrukHaiGuyz: SoupJohnB: Bit'O'Gristle: reillan: skankboy: It is appears he was unarmed... Interesting..

/sf. that scene in "Indiana Jones," as long as we're referencing movies

//y'all know the scene I mean

It's the one with the fridge, right? Man what a great scene.

No, not that one.

/the other one

//in the other movie with no nukes

The one where Karen Allen is standing on the deck of the freighter in that silk nightie, and the wind is pressing it against her body?  'Cause that's an awesome scene.


Um, I thought I knew the answer, but I'll have to get back to this discussion after I do a little further research.

/scurries off to find *that* scene on YouTube
 
2013-05-22 01:26:13 PM
www.godlikeproductions.comowlibrary.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-22 01:27:08 PM
2 to go...
 
2013-05-22 01:51:49 PM

Theaetetus: Pick: Good! Saved the taxpayer's a ton of money.

Saved the taxpayer's what?


His or her "A" ton of money. He/she said so right there. The "B" and "C" tons are still in jeopardy.
 
2013-05-22 01:55:28 PM
What do you call a muslim terror suspect who is shot and killed by the FBI?
 
2013-05-22 01:56:26 PM

Rapmaster2000: Chechnya and may have been heading back to the lawless Russian region today.

That's a strange bit of editorializing.


It's the Herald. They can't even give a weather forecast without spitting out shady information designed to trick the gullible.
 
2013-05-22 01:59:38 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-22 02:21:53 PM

umadbro: [encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com image 264x148]


You don't know enough about it to be OK with it yet.
 
2013-05-22 02:37:14 PM

Scorpius.Raven: the Weeners immediately brings the derp


Truest filter-pwn I've seen since Ben Franklin being the Boobiesmaster General...

/Hey, when all the blood is drained from the brain to power it, you have to expect some derp!
 
2013-05-22 04:01:58 PM
I, for one, am just delighted that the Patriot Act Assault on the Constitution for the past 12 years has led to such swell protection from evil doing terrorists.
Settles the question of was it a good trade off.
 
2013-05-22 04:58:50 PM
Famous Thamas: I've known plenty of "MMA" fighters that couldn't get out of a wet paper bag if they had to. I think the media calls everyone who is enrolled in a martial arts school these days "MMA" fighters. Just like every gun is an AK-47, every martial artist is an "MMA" fighter.
I sat through a martial arts class once for those people and thought "Wow, these guys suck"
I mean the instructor obviously knew his shiat, but 2/3 of the rest of those people there. They genuinely sucked


So, you saw some beginners in a class, therefore no one can be good? The instructor who "obviously knew his shiat" was a beginner once. Or did you think he was born an expert at martial arts?
 
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