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(USA Today)   Mike Trout hits for the cycle; will now go upstream to lay eggs   (usatoday.com) divider line 60
    More: Spiffy, Mike Trout, Aaron Harang, Chone Figgins, Howie Kendrick, ground rule double, Erick Aybar, safety, home runs  
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476 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 May 2013 at 9:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 08:35:17 AM
That's salmon.
 
2013-05-22 09:15:46 AM
So he got laid after the game?
 
2013-05-22 09:18:48 AM
I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.
 
2013-05-22 09:19:00 AM
Cabrera hits 3 homers the other night, and now Trout hits the cycle. I know its only May, but the AL MVP race is heating up again. Here's hoping they both stay healthy all season so we get some great baseball.
 
2013-05-22 09:19:30 AM

theknuckler_33: That's salmon.


www.awesomestories.com
HAY GUYS! WHATS GOIN ON!?
 
2013-05-22 09:19:57 AM
Has anyone compiled a list of players who have gotten 4+ hits in a game but no singles?
 
2013-05-22 09:22:15 AM

Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.


I've never understood why the cycle was such a big deal. I'll take Cabrera's three home runs any day.
 
2013-05-22 09:23:26 AM
Trivia time: what is the record for the most home runs by one player on one day?
 
2013-05-22 09:24:48 AM

Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.


Just wait, now that Mike Trout has done it there will be dozens of columns from Sabr people saying how it's the hardest thing to do in baseball and Mike Trout is a God among mere mortals.
 
2013-05-22 09:25:25 AM

bgilmore5: Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.

I've never understood why the cycle was such a big deal. I'll take Cabrera's three home runs any day.


He is the youngest in history and it is also difficult to get the triple for a larger hitter..
 
2013-05-22 09:27:04 AM

Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.


I take it to be more of a curiosity - like striking out 4 batters in one inning - than an achievement.
 
2013-05-22 09:27:17 AM

JohnnyRebel88: He is the youngest in history and it is also difficult to get the triple for a larger hitter..


Babe Ruth had 136 Triples in his career. The reason triples are harder to get is because parks are smaller.
 
2013-05-22 09:28:52 AM

Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.


Yeah, it really doesn't "mean" much. It's just one of those things that's really cool to see
 
2013-05-22 09:32:03 AM

Wellon Dowd: Trivia time: what is the record for the most home runs by one player on one day?


Who is Nate Colbert?

Didn't he have a huge day for the Padres way back when?
 
2013-05-22 09:33:15 AM

WTF Indeed: Babe Ruth had 136 Triples in his career. The reason triples are harder to get is because parks are smaller.


And outfields are in better shape and outfielders are faster.

Trout is fast as shiat even if he's a relatively big guy, so him getting a triple is a lot less impressive than, say, Adam Dunn.
 
2013-05-22 09:34:22 AM

Bruce Springsteen's Next Tour Stop: Wellon Dowd: Trivia time: what is the record for the most home runs by one player on one day?

Who is Nate Colbert?

Didn't he have a huge day for the Padres way back when?


Ding! Ding! Ding!

Colbert and Musial each hit five in a single day. Colbert's was on August 1, 1972. I don't know when Musial did it but Colbert, who was from St. Louis, claims to have attended that game.
 
2013-05-22 09:39:44 AM

WTF Indeed: JohnnyRebel88: He is the youngest in history and it is also difficult to get the triple for a larger hitter..

Babe Ruth had 136 Triples in his career. The reason triples are harder to get is because parks are smaller.


Did Ruth ever hit for the cycle?  I couldn't find anything that indicated he did.
 
2013-05-22 09:42:57 AM

JohnnyRebel88: Did Ruth ever hit for the cycle?  I couldn't find anything that indicated he did.


According to Wikipedia, no. And neither have the Marlins or the Padres.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_t o_ hit_for_the_cycle
 
2013-05-22 09:44:55 AM

you have pee hands: WTF Indeed: Babe Ruth had 136 Triples in his career. The reason triples are harder to get is because parks are smaller.

And outfields are in better shape and outfielders are faster.

Trout is fast as shiat even if he's a relatively big guy, so him getting a triple is a lot less impressive than, say, Adam Dunn.


I honestly could not believe how fast he is the first time I saw him. He hit a slightly more than average shot to deep short, and the Ryan damn near missed him at first.
 
2013-05-22 09:48:45 AM

AliceBToklasLives: Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.

I take it to be more of a curiosity - like striking out 4 batters in one inning - than an achievement.


Yup.  I'd take Carlos Delgado's 2003 game over that-- four plate appearances, four home runs.  Only one in history to do it in just four trips to the plate.

JohnnyRebel88: He is the youngest in history and it is also difficult to get the triple for a larger hitter.


Mike Trout is one of the fastest players in baseball.  He's leading the AL in triples, by the way.
 
2013-05-22 09:51:37 AM

WTF Indeed: Wellon Dowd: I'm not a Trout-hater, but the cycle is perhaps the least meaningful "achievement" in baseball.

Just wait, now that Mike Trout has done it there will be dozens of columns from Sabr people saying how it's the hardest thing to do in baseball and Mike Trout is a God among mere mortals.


I will go ahead and predict that you will be, yet again, wrong.
 
2013-05-22 09:55:49 AM

chimp_ninja: I will go ahead and predict that you will be, yet again, wrong.


I know, I was being silly. However that statement does nothing to dissuade my farky for you: Quite possibly Bill James
 
2013-05-22 10:00:49 AM
I'd give a small bronze trophy to any player who legs out a triple without any errors intervening.
 
2013-05-22 10:02:01 AM

Dick Gozinya: Cabrera hits 3 homers the other night, and now Trout hits the cycle. I know its only May, but the AL MVP race is heating up again. Here's hoping they both stay healthy all season so we get some great baseball.


Trout's been a bit less extraordinary so far this year.  Still very good but not what he was last year.
 
2013-05-22 10:13:40 AM

meanmutton: Dick Gozinya: Cabrera hits 3 homers the other night, and now Trout hits the cycle. I know its only May, but the AL MVP race is heating up again. Here's hoping they both stay healthy all season so we get some great baseball.


Evan Longoria weeps at his omission.

Trout's been a bit less extraordinary so far this year.  Still very good but not what he was last year.

Heck, the through-May-22nd AL MVP might even be a guy younger than Trout, if you account for the voters' bias in not selecting a pitcher unless it's a runaway.

(Allowing for pitchers, Clay Buchholz doing his best Pedro impression is hard to ignore.  1.75 ERA despite making 6 of 9 starts in Fenway.  69K in 65 IP is nice too.)
 
2013-05-22 10:15:56 AM
Yeah but Robinson Cano drips swagger.

MVP! MVP! MVP!
 
2013-05-22 10:21:01 AM

aintnuttintofarkwith: Yeah but Robinson Cano drips swagger.

MVP! MVP! MVP!


Heard some great stories about Yankees players from a bartender who frequently waits on the Rays visitors clubhouse manager.

A-Rod:  Sits alone, no one talks to him.  He doesn't seem to mind.

Jeter:  Has no idea what the value of money is.  Pays the Cappy's Pizza delivery kid $100 and asks "Is this enough?"

Cano:  Total dick.  He didn't really elaborate.

Girardi:  Closed down a restaurant in St. Pete for a later dinner for just the team.  Handed every single staff member of the restaurant (down to the dishwashers) $100 and thanked them for staying around.
 
2013-05-22 10:26:21 AM

chimp_ninja: meanmutton: Dick Gozinya: Cabrera hits 3 homers the other night, and now Trout hits the cycle. I know its only May, but the AL MVP race is heating up again. Here's hoping they both stay healthy all season so we get some great baseball.

Evan Longoria weeps at his omission.

Trout's been a bit less extraordinary so far this year.  Still very good but not what he was last year.

Heck, the through-May-22nd AL MVP might even be a guy younger than Trout, if you account for the voters' bias in not selecting a pitcher unless it's a runaway.

(Allowing for pitchers, Clay Buchholz doing his best Pedro impression is hard to ignore.  1.75 ERA despite making 6 of 9 starts in Fenway.  69K in 65 IP is nice too.)


longoria, cano, and cargo are the only reasons I'm 5-2 in the fark fantasy league. Evan is single handedly beating the jays with seemingly no help.
 
2013-05-22 10:26:40 AM

tricycleracer: Jeter: Has no idea what the value of money is. Pays the Cappy's Pizza delivery kid $100 and asks "Is this enough?"


Fake post.  Actual story:

Jeter: Has no idea what the value of money is. Pays the Cappy's Pizza delivery kid $100 and asks "Is this enough?"  Proceeds to "gift basket" all three of delivery kid's sisters, then dives out of the bed for no reason.
 
2013-05-22 10:36:17 AM
Cabrera is better.
 
2013-05-22 10:50:18 AM
chimp_ninja:

JohnnyRebel88: He is the youngest in history and it is also difficult to get the triple for a larger hitter.

Mike Trout is one of the fastest players in baseball.  He's leading the AL in triples, by the way.


I am guessing you are a Trout fan, I am not of him, only of the game.  However I was sticking up for him  for being a great player and I just enjoy baseball.  The Ruth reference has nothing to do with today's game of baseball.  He hit against pitchers that worked full-time as butchers, milk men etc...  The cycle is something very difficult to achieve because it probably means that you are going 4-4 or 4-5, and hitting the triple, is the most difficult, especially for bigger guys, but Barry Bonds was fast as well in his early 20's.

How many people hit 60 triples in a year?  I have seen it done with HR's and probably has been done with doubles, but not triples.  You probably will never see it happen.  Name the last person that hit more than 30 triples in a season...

According to Major League Baseball, hitting for the cycle occurs almost as rarely as throwing a no-hitter. Between 1885 and August 14, 2009, major league players hit for the cycle 290 times. During that same period, pitchers threw 282 no-hitters.
The odds of hitting a cycle in a given game are 1 in 739.2

But obviously the odds will change when you do it against a team like Seattle with a 1-4 pitcher with very poor ERA.
 
2013-05-22 11:05:18 AM

JohnnyRebel88: According to Major League Baseball, hitting for the cycle occurs almost as rarely as throwing a no-hitter. Between 1885 and August 14, 2009, major league players hit for the cycle 290 times. During that same period, pitchers threw 282 no-hitters.
The odds of hitting a cycle in a given game are 1 in 739.2


It means that a guy had a great game and it's not easy to do, but it's still a goofy achievement.  If a guy has a double, triple, and HR going into his last AB and lines one to deep right center he shouldn't stop at 1st.
 
2013-05-22 11:10:52 AM
Ok, I'm really, really busy today, but

1. Cycles are dumb.
2. Trout is pretty good.
3. Cycles are still dumb.
 
2013-05-22 11:16:14 AM
What is the record for most triples in one game?
 
2013-05-22 11:26:23 AM

JohnnyRebel88: The odds of hitting a cycle in a given game are 1 in 739.2


The odds of hitting four sacrifice flies in a game are even lower, but we don't have a "name" for it.  The cycle is a weird collection of events that happens about 3 times per season to someone.  I'm not arguing it's common, I'm arguing that it's arbitrary and a little silly.  If a guy hits a single, a double, and two home runs, he had a better game than the guy who "hit for the cycle", but we don't call it anything specific.

JohnnyRebel88: How many people hit 60 triples in a year? I have seen it done with HR's and probably has been done with doubles, but not triples. You probably will never see it happen. Name the last person that hit more than 30 triples in a season...


Yes, triples are rare.  My point about Trout is that he's exactly the kind of guy you'd expect to hit triples, because he's extremely fast, plays home games in a park with a big RCF, and hits the ball hard to all fields.

JohnnyRebel88: The Ruth reference has nothing to do with today's game of baseball. He hit against pitchers that worked full-time as butchers, milk men etc...


And the batters, who also worked as butchers and milkmen, hit many more triples even though scoring was lower than the modern game.  This is because the parks were much larger, and had lots of poorly-maintained features that allowed baseballs to carom at weird angles, get stuck in barriers or mud, etc.  There's no modern equivalent to the Polo Grounds, where it was 440 feet to RCF.
 
2013-05-22 11:26:57 AM

BobCumbers: What is the record for most triples in one game?


I will guess 3. I can see 2 happening, but there is always 1 guy that will one up the other person.  Everything after 1950, I call "Modern Era Baseball". There were some records in the late 1800's that are observed by MLB, but I don't because of the quality of play and the
"athletes" in the late 1800's - early 1900's can be compared to common era beer league stars.
 
2013-05-22 11:41:11 AM

meanmutton: Trout's been a bit less extraordinary so far this year. Still very good but not what he was last year.


As an aside, this was more or less the prediction of every sabermetric system in the past offseason.  Most guys who have amazing rookie seasons regress a little.  This isn't necessarily a "sophomore slump" as it is selection bias-- we remember the amazing rookie seasons more than we remember the seasons where the guy was a little unlucky at first.

He's also a model for one of the holes in the defensive systems.  He's getting less credit for making plays "out of zone" in 2013, or very far from where you'd expect a CF to make them.  But at least part of this is because last year the Angels parked Trumbo and Wells in the corners a good bit, and Trout had to cover both gaps because those guys sure weren't.

In 2013, he's been lined up with Shuck/Bourjos/Hamilton, who cover a lot more ground.  Plus, he's played a good bit of LF, and it's harder to create value there-- you're assigned less ground.  If someone hit a fliner into the gap in 2013 and Bourjos snagged it, Trout doesn't have a chance to try to make the amazing play.

Offensively, he's pretty close to the same guy... maybe half a step off.  Defensively, it's hard to judge.  By the numbers, the big difference from last year is that he's making fewer plays relative to other CFs or LFs.
 
2013-05-22 11:46:00 AM

chimp_ninja: meanmutton: Trout's been a bit less extraordinary so far this year. Still very good but not what he was last year.

As an aside, this was more or less the prediction of every sabermetric system in the past offseason.  Most guys who have amazing rookie seasons regress a little.  This isn't necessarily a "sophomore slump" as it is selection bias-- we remember the amazing rookie seasons more than we remember the seasons where the guy was a little unlucky at first.

He's also a model for one of the holes in the defensive systems.  He's getting less credit for making plays "out of zone" in 2013, or very far from where you'd expect a CF to make them.  But at least part of this is because last year the Angels parked Trumbo and Wells in the corners a good bit, and Trout had to cover both gaps because those guys sure weren't.

In 2013, he's been lined up with Shuck/Bourjos/Hamilton, who cover a lot more ground.  Plus, he's played a good bit of LF, and it's harder to create value there-- you're assigned less ground.  If someone hit a fliner into the gap in 2013 and Bourjos snagged it, Trout doesn't have a chance to try to make the amazing play.

Offensively, he's pretty close to the same guy... maybe half a step off.  Defensively, it's hard to judge.  By the numbers, the big difference from last year is that he's making fewer plays relative to other CFs or LFs.


Either way, for what he's getting paid he'd be a spectacular pickup for any team.
 
2013-05-22 11:52:18 AM
Blown call led to his single. Another ump fail.
 
2013-05-22 12:02:52 PM
But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today? Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...

Yeah, WAR is and was garbage.
 
2013-05-22 12:18:17 PM

MichiganFTL: But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today? Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...

Yeah, WAR is and was garbage.


Not seeing it.  Longoria and Cabrera are pretty close to tied for the best season in the majors so far, and it doesn't take a genius to notice that Longoria gets to balls that Cabrera doesn't in the field.
 
2013-05-22 12:28:04 PM

you have pee hands: MichiganFTL: But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today? Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...

Yeah, WAR is and was garbage.

Not seeing it.  Longoria and Cabrera are pretty close to tied for the best season in the majors so far, and it doesn't take a genius to notice that Longoria gets to balls that Cabrera doesn't in the field.


Oh, you mean that WAR is calculated different by everyone so that the same stat can be applied and give you many different numbers. You don't say...

OPS is still one of the best stats we legitimately have on hitters.

Also Cabrera is better than Longoria in EVERY category except they're tied in triples and Longoria has 2 more doubles... Longoria's a middle of the road defender and Cabrera is a bottom 1/3 (I'd still probably take him over the Panda, Michael Young and Zimmerman) His range is a minus, his arm is a + though, just not enough to overcome his limited range.

No hitter makes it into the contest for AL MVP vs Cabrera right now, Matt Moore/Bucholz might actually be up there with him though for what they're doing though.
 
2013-05-22 12:43:43 PM

MichiganFTL: you have pee hands: MichiganFTL: But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today? Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...

Yeah, WAR is and was garbage.

Not seeing it.  Longoria and Cabrera are pretty close to tied for the best season in the majors so far, and it doesn't take a genius to notice that Longoria gets to balls that Cabrera doesn't in the field.

Oh, you mean that WAR is calculated different by everyone so that the same stat can be applied and give you many different numbers. You don't say...

OPS is still one of the best stats we legitimately have on hitters.

Also Cabrera is better than Longoria in EVERY category except they're tied in triples and Longoria has 2 more doubles... Longoria's a middle of the road defender and Cabrera is a bottom 1/3 (I'd still probably take him over the Panda, Michael Young and Zimmerman) His range is a minus, his arm is a + though, just not enough to overcome his limited range.

No hitter makes it into the contest for AL MVP vs Cabrera right now, Matt Moore/Bucholz might actually be up there with him though for what they're doing though.


The fielding numbers are all a little wonky after a third of a season no matter where you look, which is why the leaderboard at this point seems a little out of whack, but I'd trust the UZR Fangraphs uses over however ESPN is calculating dWAR.

Also, Longoria's better than a middle of the road defender.

OPS is sort of a weird stat because they're taking two numbers with different denominators and just adding them together.  It tends to do pretty well though the SLG part makes it sound like high average singles hitters have more power than they really do.
 
2013-05-22 01:06:35 PM
MichiganFTL:
Also Cabrera is better than Longoria in EVERY category except they're tied in triples and Longoria has 2 more doubles... Longoria's a middle of the road defender and Cabrera is a bottom 1/3 (I'd still probably take him over the Panda, Michael Young and Zimmerman) His range is a minus, his arm is a + though, just not enough to overcome his limited range.

No hitter makes it into the contest for AL MVP vs Cabrera right now, Matt Moore/Bucholz might actually be up there with him though for what they're doing though.


Cabrera is unbelievable and hope he doesn't show up on a banned substance list, as baseball needs a "good guy" to root for.  The only thing that will take away votes from his MVP campaign this year, like you said, would be a stellar year from a pitcher on a contending team.  I hope that person is Clay Buchholz.  I know that the contender factor shouldn't factor in on their decision on whom to vote for, but it's hard not to be unknowingly biased to a player that has been pimped all year for their outstanding individual achievements.
 
2013-05-22 01:35:28 PM

MichiganFTL: But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today?


If it makes you feel better, B-Ref has Cabrera ranked #1 in offensive WAR, and it's not particularly close.  He doesn't fare as well if you consider his game as a whole.

MichiganFTL: Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...


So far, Segura is hitting .353/.393/.571, which is crazy good.  He runs the bases well (5 triples, 14:2 SB:CS).  He's a very good defensive player at one of the game's toughest positions.

Miguel Cabrera has outhit Segura, but he's an atrocious defender at an easier position.  Why is it so hard to believe that Segura's glove and legs could make up the difference?

Were you baffled when Cal Ripken won the 1983 MVP while hitting .317 with 27 HR?  I mean, Jim Rice hit .305 and led the AL in HR (39) and RBI* (126).

No one made that decision based on WAR-- they just understood baseball well enough to realize that defense matters.

(*): Sorry, DeWayne Mann.  RsBsIs.
 
2013-05-22 01:39:12 PM

MichiganFTL: OPS is still one of the best stats we legitimately have on hitters.


Vinny Castilla and Dante Bichette thank you for not using anything park-adjusted.
 
2013-05-22 01:40:58 PM

meanmutton: Either way, for what he's getting paid he'd be a spectacular pickup for any team.


For what Mike Trout is being paid, he'd be a spectacular pickup if he was a good defensive utility infielder with no bat.
 
2013-05-22 01:49:22 PM

you have pee hands: OPS is sort of a weird stat because they're taking two numbers with different denominators and just adding them together. It tends to do pretty well though the SLG part makes it sound like high average singles hitters have more power than they really do.


The people who started using it basically said that 2/3 OBP plus 1/3 SLG would work better for most eras, but they liked the simplicity.  OPS is also a nice scale in that "1.000" basically means "crazy good".

It's a quick estimate that's easy to grasp, but it's not necessarily a great measure of a hitter's ability, especially if you don't take the park/era into account.  In the 1968 NL, exactly 10 guys put up an 800+ OPS.  The late 1990s Rockies had years where they put up a team OPS well over 800, and finished in last place.
 
2013-05-22 02:10:31 PM

MichiganFTL: But what's his WAR now?

The amazing stat that ranks Cabrera as the 3rd best 3B in just the American League... or that Gerardo Parra is the best player in the majors through the season up to today? Or that Jean Segura is more of an asset than Cabrera, Wainright, Darvish, Matt Moore...

Yeah, WAR is and was garbage.


If you're looking at WAR this early, you're doing it wrong
 
2013-05-22 03:21:54 PM
All i can Remember of Cabrera is watching him strike out last year for the final out in the WS.
 
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