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(Guardian)   IRS IRS IRS (immigration bill passes) IRS IRS IRS   (guardian.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Asinine, IRS IRS, IRS, skilled workers  
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2549 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 May 2013 at 9:12 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-22 01:12:20 AM  
FTFA: At the same time it requires the government to take costly new steps to guard against future illegal immigration.

Wharrgarbl about taxes in 4...3...2...
 
2013-05-22 02:10:14 AM  
Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".
 
2013-05-22 02:24:14 AM  

dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".


I hear ya but this is a big step in the right direction. Can't win them all, at the same time anyway.
 
2013-05-22 02:43:44 AM  
Would DOMA getting struck down make this whole thing moot anyway?
 
2013-05-22 02:55:37 AM  

themindiswatching: Would DOMA getting struck down make this whole thing moot anyway?


And what about states that sanction gay marriage? I think the dems agreed to this knowing they have some stepping stones and the repubs have some hurdles.
 
2013-05-22 05:13:08 AM  

themindiswatching: Would DOMA getting struck down make this whole thing moot anyway?


That's my thinking.
 
2013-05-22 08:57:35 AM  
creates a new program for low-skilled foreign labour and would permit highly skilled workers into the country at far higher levels.

Could just be me, but maybe we should be creating policies that lead to more home grown higher skilled workers.

Side note: People are surprised the Democrats have no spines?
 
2013-05-22 09:16:27 AM  

themindiswatching: Would DOMA getting struck down make this whole thing moot anyway?


Depends on how the court strikes it down, but it could yes
 
2013-05-22 09:17:40 AM  

violentsalvation: Can't win them all, at the same time anyway.


When was the first, and only, "win?" When John Boehner got 98% of what he wanted? When NPR and Planned Parenthood lost their funding? When Aetna, the Hartford et al got their big payoff under the guise of the Affordable Care Act? I understand having to compromise with the mouth-breathingest states' reps and senators, but at what point does a president tell his base, "OK, I got your back"? Because 4 years in, I've yet to see anything but a bunch of caving and buckling to monied interests and the dumbasses who keep them in power.
 
2013-05-22 09:17:51 AM  
OP, the legislation did not pass, the legislation moved forward.

.....The most far-reaching US immigration legislation in about two decades moved forward on a solid bipartisan vote in the Senate judiciary committee......
 
2013-05-22 09:19:09 AM  

Aarontology: creates a new program for low-skilled foreign labour and would permit highly skilled workers into the country at far higher levels.

Could just be me, but maybe we should be creating policies that lead to more home grown higher skilled workers.

Side note: People are surprised the Democrats have no spines?


Without immigration the US population would shrink and a country with a shrinking population is a dying one that eventually runs into all kinds of trouble. Growth doesn't have to be huge but it does have to be positive. That being the case, if we're going to need immigrants, shouldn't we favor the more highly skilled ones that would create more resources than they consume?
 
2013-05-22 09:20:27 AM  
They were talking about that same sex amendment on the radio today, I get that it's the right thing to do in the long run but wtf dude, you trying to torpedo this shiat? The best way to go about that would be to go through the courts with some equal protection argument or something.
 
2013-05-22 09:20:42 AM  
It left committee. It still has to face the auto-filibuster.
 
2013-05-22 09:23:46 AM  
In addition to creating a pathway to citizenship for 11.5 million immigrants living illegally in the country, the legislation creates a new program for low-skilled foreign labour and would permit highly skilled workers into the country at far higher levels.

That's fantastic and all, but once you realize it will likely keep immigrants in low-skill, low-wage positions  while denying basic human rights for gay folks, there's really nothing to celebrate here.

Worthless Legislative Branch is worthless.
 
2013-05-22 09:23:47 AM  
Is Benghazi a scandal yet?
 
2013-05-22 09:24:41 AM  
Subby does make a good point........the GOP might be going scandal crazy so that their base is too distracted by the shiny things to realize that they are compromising with the democrats.  Some faith restored.
 
2013-05-22 09:27:49 AM  
The immigration bill will never make it through the house.

It'll hurt african american job prospects too much for most democrats from AA districts to vote for it.
 
2013-05-22 09:28:16 AM  
In the end, the Republicans will grudgingly support the bill in exchange for making it easier to lay off Americans and replace them with foreign workers.  More H1B visas, easier green cards for tech workers, less oversight, etc.
 
2013-05-22 09:28:44 AM  
ampoliros:  That being the case, if we're going to need immigrants, shouldn't we favor the more highly skilled ones that would create more resources than they consume?

Do you really think that 'highly skilled' workers produce most of what the US sells and needs?    If we want manufacturing here, it isn't 'highly skilled' workers that will grow it.  If we want to keep expanding agribusiness, it isn't 'highly skilled' workers that will be preparing chickens and picking produce.
 
2013-05-22 09:29:44 AM  
It is sad, though unsurprising that the GOP can always find a way to jam up a minority group, even in a bill designed to recognize/expand hunan rights for another minority group.

At least they're dependable.
 
2013-05-22 09:30:58 AM  

potterydove: The immigration bill will never make it through the house.

It'll hurt african american job prospects too much for most democrats from AA districts to vote for it.


Do explain the mechanics of your claim.
 
2013-05-22 09:30:58 AM  

Aarontology: Could just be me, but maybe we should be creating policies that lead to more home grown higher skilled workers.


That will never happen in a country that vilifies education as vigorously as Americans do.  You can't teach people anything when politicians have convinced them that learning is bad or something to look down upon.

The thing is, it's going to get a whole lot worse in this country, and we're going to be in a position where we either have to import skilled workers or export jobs requiring skilled workers.  And, whatever money those workers make sure as hell isn't going to stay in America.
 
2013-05-22 09:36:41 AM  

ampoliros: Without immigration the US population would shrink and a country with a shrinking population is a dying one that eventually runs into all kinds of trouble. Growth doesn't have to be huge but it does have to be positive. That being the case, if we're going to need immigrants, shouldn't we favor the more highly skilled ones that would create more resources than they consume?


My issues isn't with immigration or importing those workers. A lot of the time they stay here and become citizens and create a net gain for the country. It's more about the *need* to import them because we aren't producing enough of our own. I don't care if some company hires an Indian engineer. The problem is if they have to hire him because there aren't enough American ones, you know?

Vodka Zombie: That will never happen in a country that vilifies education as vigorously as Americans do. You can't teach people anything when politicians have convinced them that learning is bad or something to look down upon.


That's the problem. America grew dramatically in the middle half of the 20th century because we placed huge emphasis on science and engineering. We're going to fall behind nations like China and India because of it, and in an increasingly globalized economy, that's incredibly dangerous.
 
2013-05-22 09:37:07 AM  
When DOMA is struck down, the same sex issue doesn't matter.

As for this whole registration thing, I'm excited.  I can see it being functional within months of the President signing this bill.  Huge job opportunities at the immigration service centers, if you want a government job.
 
2013-05-22 09:38:23 AM  
This bill is a turd.

Immigrants have a chance to become citizens, maybe, eventually, down the road, a decade and a half from now.

In the meantime, the Chamber of Commerce gets all the cheap labor they want.
 
2013-05-22 09:39:14 AM  

Wendy's Chili: This bill is a turd.

Immigrants have a chance to become citizens, maybe, eventually, down the road, a decade and a half from now.

In the meantime, the Chamber of Commerce gets all the cheap labor they want.


The compromise was to get it out of committee, at least give it a chance to get amended on the floor
 
2013-05-22 09:47:06 AM  
Well I hope the House Republicians have a little more sense and kill this crap of a bill
 
2013-05-22 09:48:26 AM  

ObamaTheOmnipotent: Is Benghazi a scandal yet?


YES!!1!!11uno!

And by "YES", I mean "...no".
 
2013-05-22 09:53:04 AM  
Nice understanding of the legislative process you got there, subby.
 
2013-05-22 09:55:36 AM  

EmmaLou: When DOMA is struck down, the same sex issue doesn't matter.

As for this whole registration thing, I'm excited.  I can see it being functional within months of the President signing this bill.  Huge job opportunities at the immigration service centers, if you want a government job.


Do you have to be a citizen to get that job?
 
2013-05-22 09:56:26 AM  

EyeballKid: violentsalvation: Can't win them all, at the same time anyway.

When was the first, and only, "win?" When John Boehner got 98% of what he wanted? When NPR and Planned Parenthood lost their funding? When Aetna, the Hartford et al got their big payoff under the guise of the Affordable Care Act? I understand having to compromise with the mouth-breathingest states' reps and senators, but at what point does a president tell his base, "OK, I got your back"? Because 4 years in, I've yet to see anything but a bunch of caving and buckling to monied interests and the dumbasses who keep them in power.


Lets see, a few of the more obvious examples:

Iraq
Bin Laden
ARRA
DADT
Libya
Ending Enhanced Interrogation
Removing banks as a middle man in providing student loans
RTTT
CAFE upgrade
DVA budget boost/GI Bill
CISADA
Tightening EPA standards on mercury pollution
LLFPA
CCARDA
Sotomayor and Kagan
FSMA
New START
Boosting Americorps
OPLMA
FSPTCA
Fair Sentencing Act (well, it was a start)
Boosting R&D in renewable energy sector
HHFKA
HCPA
Deepwater Horizon Economic Settlement (just consider people affect by the latest oil spill nearly ended up getting compensated before the victims of Exxon Valdez)
CHIP
 
2013-05-22 09:56:43 AM  

Aarontology: We're going to fall behind nations like China and India because of it,


We're already far, far behind, and I don't see anyone putting in any effort to close that gap.  And, I think, a lot of businesses in America WANT that gap.  They want the 35 cents an hour sweatshops in this country, and it looks like they are going to get that.

Sadly, you don't need to invest a whole hell of a lot in education to create a nation of button pushers and post-hole diggers.  And, if you can convince your population that intellectual atrophy and mediocrity are patriotic, you can clean out the entire budget for education and shovel it over to your bomb-building buddies while keeping a fair chunk for yourself.
 
2013-05-22 10:00:01 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Wendy's Chili: This bill is a turd.

Immigrants have a chance to become citizens, maybe, eventually, down the road, a decade and a half from now.

In the meantime, the Chamber of Commerce gets all the cheap labor they want.

The compromise was to get it out of committee, at least give it a chance to get amended on the floor


By the time it's done being amended it'll probably repeal the Social Security Act and rename the country Reaganstan.
 
2013-05-22 10:00:45 AM  

James!: It left committee. It still has to face the auto-filibuster.


Not to mention the House, or as I like to call it, the Sacred Committee for the Preservation and Protection of Southern Heritage and Truly True Family Values and Such.
 
2013-05-22 10:03:03 AM  
This isn't news. It will never pass the House. You aren't going to get immigration reform until at least after the 2020 census, and even then only if people elect more Democrats to state offices to prevent another round of Republicans packing all black people and college students into one district so they can win the surrounding five.
 
2013-05-22 10:04:18 AM  

Wendy's Chili: By the time it's done being amended it'll probably repeal the Social Security Act and rename the country Reaganstan.


So you're saying we are going with an open amendment process then
 
2013-05-22 10:07:36 AM  

Wendy's Chili: This bill is a turd.


Oh yeah

Wendy's Chili: Immigrants have a chance to become citizens, maybe, eventually, down the road, a decade and a half from now.


And that is only IF future illegal immigration is stopped.
 
2013-05-22 10:07:53 AM  

Aarontology: ampoliros: Without immigration the US population would shrink and a country with a shrinking population is a dying one that eventually runs into all kinds of trouble. Growth doesn't have to be huge but it does have to be positive. That being the case, if we're going to need immigrants, shouldn't we favor the more highly skilled ones that would create more resources than they consume?

My issues isn't with immigration or importing those workers. A lot of the time they stay here and become citizens and create a net gain for the country. It's more about the *need* to import them because we aren't producing enough of our own. I don't care if some company hires an Indian engineer. The problem is if they have to hire him because there aren't enough American ones, you know?

Vodka Zombie: That will never happen in a country that vilifies education as vigorously as Americans do. You can't teach people anything when politicians have convinced them that learning is bad or something to look down upon.

That's the problem. America grew dramatically in the middle half of the 20th century because we placed huge emphasis on science and engineering. We're going to fall behind nations like China and India because of it, and in an increasingly globalized economy, that's incredibly dangerous.


Here's a bunch of anecdotes-aren't-data: I just finished my Ph.D. in biology. Of my friends who also recently graduated with Ph.D.s, all American citizens, this is their employment breakdown:

Postdoc in San Diego
Postdoc in Seattle (miraculously got a grant)
Postdoc in Madison
Postdoc in Scotland
Postdoc in Czech Republic
Postdoc in New Zealand (me)
1 unemployed

Every single one took the first job offered. Half took jobs internationally because there wasn't enough funding to support them here. We produce tons of scientists, way too many for the amount of funding available. PhDs are conditioned to accept cultural capital in lieu of actual money, but to get your first "real job" at the age of 30 and have it pay 40k is bullshiat.
 
2013-05-22 10:21:58 AM  

dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".


Since the Democrats do seemed to be mired in the less of two evil trope, they would be a much better party if only the other guys weren't so damned evil. We really need to work with some sort of coalition government type thing. Two parties are not working, and, with our current system, third parties are not a viable option.
 
2013-05-22 10:23:15 AM  

DeaH: dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".

Since the Democrats do seemed to be mired in the less of two evil trope, they would be a much better party if only the other guys weren't so damned evil. We really need to work with some sort of coalition government type thing. Two parties are not working, and, with our current system, third parties are not a viable option.


Just put an end to political donations being tax deductible.  All the other things will sort themselves out.
 
2013-05-22 10:33:46 AM  

DeaH: dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".

Since the Democrats do seemed to be mired in the less of two evil trope, they would be a much better party if only the other guys weren't so damned evil. We really need to work with some sort of coalition government type thing. Two parties are not working, and, with our current system, third parties are not a viable option.


I disagree. The creation of new parties and renaming of existent parties are our only option, since the platforms of each have morphed so much since the inception of the two parties.

Proposed renaming and creation of political parties relevant to the present platforms from right to left:
Christian Confederation (tea party)
Christian Corporatist Party (gop)
Practical Centrist Party  (dems)
Secular Collectivist Party (libulardos)
 
2013-05-22 10:58:27 AM  
Why are immigrants considered ILLEGAL instead of the businesses paying them ILLEGALLY?
 
2013-05-22 11:02:04 AM  

dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.


Oppressed? You do realize that the United States treats illegal infiltrators better than almost any other country in the Western Hemisphere? Look and see how Mexico, a country which constantly whines about U.S. immigration policy, treats it's uninvited visitors..
 
2013-05-22 11:04:03 AM  

The_Time_Master: Why are immigrants considered ILLEGAL instead of the businesses paying them ILLEGALLY?


Both are breaking the law, both illegal.
 
2013-05-22 11:19:48 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: The_Time_Master: Why are immigrants considered ILLEGAL instead of the businesses paying them ILLEGALLY?

Both are breaking the law, both illegal.


I would like to try the original english pilgrims and the founding fathers for illegal immigration in absentia since they are criminals for not having papers documenting citizenship or not being a naturalized citizen via birth and receiving payment for work done.

Our country was evidently founded by criminal terrorists. Funny, that.
 
2013-05-22 11:20:29 AM  

1derful: dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

Oppressed? You do realize that the United States treats illegal infiltrators better than almost any other country in the Western Hemisphere? Look and see how Mexico, a country which constantly whines about U.S. immigration policy, treats it's uninvited visitors..


Actually the US imprisons infiltrators.
 
2013-05-22 11:21:30 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: The_Time_Master: Why are immigrants considered ILLEGAL instead of the businesses paying them ILLEGALLY?

Both are breaking the law, both illegal.


So low hanging fruit, easier to villify people than it is a business. I understand now!
 
2013-05-22 11:28:00 AM  

Epoch_Zero: DeaH: dookdookdook: Congratulations once again democrats, on not only missing out on a chance to stand up for an oppressed minority, but also on a chance to make Republicans look like massive bigots once again.

It's truly unfathomable why you can't seem to ever raise your party's public image beyond "Lesser of two evils".

Since the Democrats do seemed to be mired in the less of two evil trope, they would be a much better party if only the other guys weren't so damned evil. We really need to work with some sort of coalition government type thing. Two parties are not working, and, with our current system, third parties are not a viable option.

I disagree. The creation of new parties and renaming of existent parties are our only option, since the platforms of each have morphed so much since the inception of the two parties.

Proposed renaming and creation of political parties relevant to the present platforms from right to left:
Christian Confederation (tea party)
Christian Corporatist Party (gop)
Practical Centrist Party  (dems)
Secular Collectivist Party (libulardos)


As long as it's binary, it just will not work. It doesn't matter how you label it.
 
2013-05-22 11:29:28 AM  
There's immigrants coming into the country every day.  This is making the issue emotional for a lot of people, so I don't think now is the time to talk about immigration reform.
 
2013-05-22 11:44:47 AM  

DeaH: As long as it's binary, it just will not work. It doesn't matter how you label it.


Bullshiat. Let's have 8 parties of 16 sub-parties. We can call it "Hexpolitics ver.6"
 
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