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(SFGate)   "If you're going to act like Nellie Olsen, you're going to dress like Nellie Olsen." Mom punishes bully daughter by making her wear thrift store clothes. With Before and After shots   (blog.sfgate.com) divider line 369
    More: Hero, TFA, social death, stepmothers, clothing, Boing Boing  
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32350 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 May 2013 at 5:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-21 11:59:54 PM
In the 70's, this would have been the "gentle" approach to correct the daughter's behavior.
 
2013-05-22 12:02:11 AM
Child psychologists most often advise against it. "Public shaming may be effective in teaching our children what specific behavior they should stay away from in the future to avoid future humiliation," Jennifer A. Leigh, Psy.D., told She Knows Parenting. "However, shaming can damage the parent-child relationship. Children quickly learn they cannot trust their parents. Children need to feel safe and secure and to be able to trust their parents."
KTSU asked Dr. Douglas Goldsmith of Utah's Children's Center about Ally teaching her daughter a lesson through humiliation and he said, "What happens with that is the person walks away at the end saying, 'Now I'm really angry, that was humiliating and now I'm angry."


...And, that's why we have the kids today.
 
2013-05-22 12:06:12 AM
TFA: "The stepmom spent about $50 at a thrift store and purchased clothes she knew Ally would be embarrassed to wear."

$50 at a thrift store?  That's about 3 year's worth of outfits for a fourth grader.
 
2013-05-22 12:15:24 AM
So to prevent her from being a bully, her mother taught her that wearing second-hand clothes is something that should be viewed as a punishment, and that one element of said punishment involves not being stylish in public. That's wonderful.
 
2013-05-22 12:20:43 AM
Who is Nellie Olsen?
 
2013-05-22 12:26:14 AM

CruiserTwelve: Who is Nellie Olsen?


I had to Google that one myself.

hilarywgraham.files.wordpress.com

Never watched "Little House".
 
2013-05-22 01:28:50 AM
"Public shaming may be effective in teaching our children what specific behavior they should stay away from in the future to avoid future humiliation,"

Good. This is exactly the point.

"However, shaming can damage the parent-child relationship. Children quickly learn they cannot trust their parents."

Bullshiat. Not if the parents communicate with their kids. Maybe they can't trust their parents to just take their side when they are completely in the wrong, but that is not the same as a general distrust, and if it leads to one, then humiliation as punishment is probably the least of the problems in that family. Perhaps if the parents engaged more in actually raising their children, this would not be an issue.

"Children need to feel safe and secure and to be able to trust their parents."

And unless you are a really shiatty parent, disciplining your child when they do something bad should not erode their trust or their feeling of safety and security. Communicate with your kids and help them understand and give them a loving, nurturing home even with using humiliation as discipline.

In short, actually raise your kids and these shouldn't be issues.

Lsherm: ...And, that's why we have the kids today.


Indeed.
 
2013-05-22 02:09:31 AM

Lsherm: Child psychologists most often advise against it. "Public shaming may be effective in teaching our children what specific behavior they should stay away from in the future to avoid future humiliation," Jennifer A. Leigh, Psy.D., told She Knows Parenting. "However, shaming can damage the parent-child relationship. Children quickly learn they cannot trust their parents. Children need to feel safe and secure and to be able to trust their parents."
KTSU asked Dr. Douglas Goldsmith of Utah's Children's Center about Ally teaching her daughter a lesson through humiliation and he said, "What happens with that is the person walks away at the end saying, 'Now I'm really angry, that was humiliating and now I'm angry."

...And, that's why we have the kids today.


No child of effective parents feels safe and secure, or trusts them, when the child is doing something WRONG!
 
2013-05-22 02:20:31 AM
My mom punished me in a similar fashion once, although in her case what she said was, "If you're going to act like a slutty little hellbound whorebeast..."

I tried to explain that I wasn't looking at  Playboy for fashion and makeup tips, but I don't think it really got through to her.
 
2013-05-22 02:40:38 AM
"If you're going to act like Nellie Olsen, you're going to dress like Mary-Kate Olsen."
 
2013-05-22 03:20:01 AM
Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.
 
2013-05-22 04:16:46 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.


I'm curious. How would you have handled this? A scum mother is one who doesn't give a crap what her kids are doing. A parent who couldn't care less if her child bullied another child.

Granted, yes, the kid lived through a divorce. So did I, and at about her age, too. But some divorces are amicable. From what it sounded like, the girl was just a little snot at school. I have been on the receiving end of teasing about clothes because I grew so fast, I was in high water pants for all of 7th grade.

So I am wondering what you would have done to halt a bullying child. Saying my kid wouldn't be a bully in the first place isn't an option.
 
2013-05-22 05:17:17 AM
www.danspiegel.net
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
That is all.
 
2013-05-22 05:32:13 AM
Obviously this wasn't in Portland, where wearing worn-out thrift-store clothes is a point of fashionable pride like wearing Christian Louboutins is elsewhere
 
2013-05-22 05:33:38 AM
How DARE you bully someone weaker than you?! Submit to my greater strength and authority and feel the shame!
 
2013-05-22 05:36:37 AM

MagSeven: That is all.


Win
 
2013-05-22 05:36:37 AM
The mother should be made to wear the Attention Whore Bikini and walk on her hands everywhere.
 
2013-05-22 05:36:51 AM
I think this is great. it's teaching them empathy by making them walk a mile in someone else's shoes. that "psychologist" needs a does of humility too it sounds like.
 
2013-05-22 05:37:31 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-22 05:38:03 AM

Hobodeluxe: I think this is great. it's teaching them empathy by making them walk a mile in someone else's shoes. that "psychologist" needs a dose of humility too it sounds like.


ftfm

need coffee.
 
2013-05-22 05:38:59 AM

Babwa Wawa: TFA: "The stepmom spent about $50 at a thrift store and purchased clothes she knew Ally would be embarrassed to wear."

$50 at a thrift store?  That's about 3 year's worth of outfits for a fourth grader.


Thrift stores can be expensive if they are near a university or a "trendy" neighborhood.

//I used to buy weird old records at a thrift shop for a quarter each.
///Then the whole vinyl-hipster thing started and suddenly old records cost 20$ each.
////I hate hipsters so much.
 
2013-05-22 05:39:08 AM
This is merely poor bashing. Thrift store clothes! Your punishment is to dress like the poors! It's really quite gross. The only good that could come from this is a Disney movie of the week ending, where the daughter ends up finding out that being poor and dressing like her victims actually reveals a community of love and support...aw shiat who am I kidding? This girl will just double down on her wealth self-importance and her mom will feel great about it.
 
2013-05-22 05:47:02 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.


Hey, now, a little empathy, please.  The poor little tyke might not have been through a divorce.

She might have a stepmom because she killed her real mum...
 
2013-05-22 05:49:21 AM
I love it how psychologists are always advocating "no punishment" parenting styles.  I've known parents who never punish their children (they think it's better to be their child's friend than their parent) and they always have the most farked up, out-of-control, disrespectful children around.
 
2013-05-22 05:52:11 AM
It might just be me, but I'm sure there are kids out there who wish their parents had 50$ to spend on thrift store clothes for them to wear to school...
 
2013-05-22 05:59:51 AM
I knew a woman who did this to her 15 year old step daughter.

Even took the chick's underwear away, and made her wear plain white cotton bras and panties.

I always thought it was a little perverted that she even thought to do that.
 
2013-05-22 06:00:18 AM

highwayrun: Obviously this wasn't in Portland, where wearing worn-out thrift-store clothes is a point of fashionable pride like wearing Christian Louboutins is elsewhere


According to another article, this is exactly what happened.
 
2013-05-22 06:08:25 AM
I think it would be good for everyone (especially parents to be) to take a developmental psychology class, and in particular, study the works of Erik Erikson.

It just seems to me that someone who understands, even at a simple level, human psychology wouldn't see what this mother did as Plan A. This is what someone does when they don't know what to do. At the most, it teaches (forces) an ability to contain one's true emotions and improves behavior through a depressed resignation, but it creates a need to create the self either as a negative self or as someone who can't trust the world and has to become avoidant and create a self separate from the world. It's one thing to do something wrong to a child. It's another thing to do that wrong thing and normalize it. If you normalize bad behavior toward children, the child has to make sense of a world that the child cannot trust.

And no, I'm not some wonky grad student. I'm a high-school graduate. To me this is common sense.

This woman may be a hero for getting by. I don't know what she's up against. I don't know what skills she has. I don't know what knowledge she has. But this isn't a victory in parenting.

Bullying has very specific causes and exists in very specific contexts. It's not something you can "beat" or eliminate by not tolerating it or by shaming a child, which is in itself bullying. To me, the answer is to contain the emotions of the bullier and allow them to trust that the world is safe, a feeling which they then internalize. That's how children learn to trust, and the absence of that could have been one of the causes of the bullying to begin with (bullying is more likely to occur in children of authoritarian parents, whom children can't easily trust).
 
2013-05-22 06:13:43 AM

darkjezter: I love it how psychologists are always advocating "no punishment" parenting styles.  I've known parents who never punish their children (they think it's better to be their child's friend than their parent) and they always have the most farked up, out-of-control, disrespectful children around.


I've known three shrinks over the years (socially, not professionaly, har har); one was really good, but the other two I wouldn't trust with a dog, let alone a child.

/no, doc, I DON'T think it's ethical to borrow money from your patients
 
2013-05-22 06:14:41 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.


So what you're saying is... when my daughter got caught in 4th grade stealing ice cream sandwiches at school... I should not have asked a cop to come over to the house. Instead I should've treated her like the precious little snowflake she is.
 
2013-05-22 06:20:21 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.


8/10, well-done.
 
2013-05-22 06:21:21 AM
What she know about wearing a wolf on her noggin?

//poppin tags
 
2013-05-22 06:21:28 AM
So a woman's daughter relentlessly bullies a girl to the point that she wants to leave the school, then she makes her daughter see what it's like to be in her position as punishment.. and people have a problem with this?

Christ people, she made her daughter wear clothes she didn't want for a few days. <i>I think she'll get over it</i>.
 
2013-05-22 06:21:55 AM
Ok if the clothes were too cruel, how about a sign around her neck that reads "I'm a bullying biatch"?
 
2013-05-22 06:25:03 AM
www.danspiegel.netencrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

MagSeven: That is all.


My.
God.
 
2013-05-22 06:25:20 AM

darkjezter: I love it how psychologists are always advocating "no punishment" parenting styles.  I've known parents who never punish their children (they think it's better to be their child's friend than their parent) and they always have the most farked up, out-of-control, disrespectful children around.


any extreme route you take will end up with messed up kids. whether it's the "no punishment I'm your friend" route or the strict disciplinarian route there will be problems. the best way imo is just to set sensible boundaries for acceptable behavior and be consistent in your enforcement and punishment for them. and to start early. a lot of bad behavior needs to be nipped in the bud early. when they're toddlers.
I come for a large family and was the 2nd oldest. so I learned a lot growing up. I've raised two kids (now adults) and am working on my first grand child now. and I'm very proud of my kids. they've never been in trouble and are both in good careers. I've been told that they were the best behaved kids by several people as they were growing up.
I am a little worried about the grandkid. he has a mean streak that my kids really never had. bad genes from his dad I'm thinking :(  but he's smart,damn near genius for his age. before he was 2 he knew the alphabet,could count to 20,knew about 8 different colors and could sing several little songs he liked. I'm now working with him on the basic concepts of addition and subtraction. and learning to read.
 
2013-05-22 06:26:23 AM

symptomoftheuniverse: Ok if the clothes were too cruel, how about a sign around her neck that reads "I'm a bullying biatch"?


Too cruel?

Doesn't everyone wear goodwill stuff now?
♪♫ this is farking awesome ♫♪
 
2013-05-22 06:26:25 AM
I remember one year my mom took me school shopping. It was me, my brother, my mom, oh, my pop, and my little sister all hopped in the car. We headed downtown to the Gallery Mall. My started bugging with the clothes she chose. I didn't say nothing at first, I just turned up my nose.

She said, "What's wrong? This shirt costs $20." I said, "Mom, this shirt is plaid with a butterfly collar!"

The next half hour was the same old thing, my mother buying me clothes from 1963. And then she lost her mind and did the ULTIMATE. I asked her for Adidas and she bought me Zips!

I said, "Mom. What are you doing? You're ruining my rep." She said, "You're only 16. You don't have a rep yet."

I said, "Mom, let's put these clothes back, please." She said no. "You go to school to learn, not for a fashion show."

I said, "This isn't Sha Na Na, come on Mom, I'm not Bowzer. Mom, please put back the bell-bottom Brady Bunch trousers. But if you don't want to, I can live with that. But you gotta put back the double-knit reversible slacks!"

She wasn't moved. Everything stayed the same. Inevitably the first day of school came.

I thought I could get over, I tried to play sick, but my mom said, "No, no way, uh-uh, forget it."There was nothing I could do, I tried to relax.I got dressed up in those ancient artifacts.

And when I walked into school, it was just as I thought, the kids were cracking up, laughing at the clothes Mom bought. And those who weren't laughing still had a ball because they were pointing and whispering as I walked down the hall.

I got home and told my Mom how my day went.She said, "If they were laughing you don't need them, 'cause they're not good friends."

Take it from me, parents just don't understand.
 
2013-05-22 06:29:31 AM
So choking a biatch and sending her to make shoes in Indonesia is right out?
 
2013-05-22 06:29:39 AM

WippitGuud: So what you're saying is... when my daughter got caught in 4th grade stealing ice cream sandwiches at school... I should not have asked a cop to come over to the house. Instead I should've treated her like the precious little snowflake she is.


Aside from the fact that I wouldn't trust any cop enough to invite one into my home,  that's actually not a bad idea.  But I personally wouldn't allow a police officer onto my property without a warrant.
 
2013-05-22 06:30:18 AM

Hobodeluxe: any extreme route you take will end up with messed up kids.


Would you consider making a child wear ugly clothes an "extreme" punishment?  I'm rather hopeful that your answer will reflect that corporal punishment may have still have been allowed in schools when you were growing up.
 
2013-05-22 06:31:13 AM

highwayrun: Obviously this wasn't in Portland, where wearing worn-out thrift-store clothes is a point of fashionable pride like wearing Christian Louboutins is elsewhere


So much this.
 
2013-05-22 06:36:08 AM
Oh, and thrifting is an art; you just have to know what to look for and have an eye for stains and holes.  I wish I knew about it when I dropped a bunch of weight and had to replace my entire wardrobe.
 
2013-05-22 06:36:13 AM

Lsherm: ...And, that's why we have the kids today.


I'm pretty sure we have kids the same way.
 
2013-05-22 06:38:31 AM

swingerofbirches: I think it would be good for everyone (especially parents to be) to take a developmental psychology class, and in particular, study the works of Erik Erikson.

It just seems to me that someone who understands, even at a simple level, human psychology wouldn't see what this mother did as Plan A. This is what someone does when they don't know what to do. At the most, it teaches (forces) an ability to contain one's true emotions and improves behavior through a depressed resignation, but it creates a need to create the self either as a negative self or as someone who can't trust the world and has to become avoidant and create a self separate from the world. It's one thing to do something wrong to a child. It's another thing to do that wrong thing and normalize it. If you normalize bad behavior toward children, the child has to make sense of a world that the child cannot trust.

And no, I'm not some wonky grad student. I'm a high-school graduate. To me this is common sense.

This woman may be a hero for getting by. I don't know what she's up against. I don't know what skills she has. I don't know what knowledge she has. But this isn't a victory in parenting.

Bullying has very specific causes and exists in very specific contexts. It's not something you can "beat" or eliminate by not tolerating it or by shaming a child, which is in itself bullying. To me, the answer is to contain the emotions of the bullier and allow them to trust that the world is safe, a feeling which they then internalize. That's how children learn to trust, and the absence of that could have been one of the causes of the bullying to begin with (bullying is more likely to occur in children of authoritarian parents, whom children can't easily trust).


immortalmusic.net

Usually the bullies I know of are either the jocks with a free ride or the cheergirls. I never see Hobo McHobo bullying Joe "the sledgehammer" Taylor on the football team. My opinion: watch for signs in other kids of bullying, and punish the bully. Humiliation does work, as it has in the military for generations.
 
2013-05-22 06:42:04 AM

Lsherm: Child psychologists most often advise against it. "Public shaming may be effective in teaching our children what specific behavior they should stay away from in the future to avoid future humiliation," Jennifer A. Leigh, Psy.D., told She Knows Parenting. "However, shaming can damage the parent-child relationship. Children quickly learn they cannot trust their parents. Children need to feel safe and secure and to be able to trust their parents."
KTSU asked Dr. Douglas Goldsmith of Utah's Children's Center about Ally teaching her daughter a lesson through humiliation and he said, "What happens with that is the person walks away at the end saying, 'Now I'm really angry, that was humiliating and now I'm angry."

...And, that's why we have the kids today.


What we know for sure is that whatever techniques your parents used are bad.
 
2013-05-22 06:42:11 AM
Just link to TFA, subtard. Why link to farking boing boing?
 
2013-05-22 06:44:56 AM

swingerofbirches: To me, the answer is to contain the emotions of the bullier and allow them to trust that the world is safe


An odd chicken-before-the-egg sort of logic, since a kid's world is likely not safe because of said bullies.
 
2013-05-22 06:45:07 AM
Headline makes no sense. Nellie Olsen always had the latest fashion.
 
2013-05-22 06:47:00 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Odd how it's always parents who resort to shiat like public shaming who seem to end up with children who act out. Almost like shiatty parents end up with shiatty kids. The fact that it's a step-mom tells me this girl has already been through a divorce, and who knows what else. She needs therapy and support, not public shaming.

And a pre-emptive fark you to anyone who defends the scum mother.


please, cry more.
 
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