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(Talking Points Memo)   Apple is so hip, they've been making up Irish-American corporations that reside in both countries yet pay taxes in neither. That's like...whoa, man. My mind just got blown by your bodacious use of tax loopholes   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 380
    More: Asinine, Apple Inc., United States, u.s. income tax, share buyback, income taxes  
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7660 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 May 2013 at 10:05 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-21 01:15:59 PM

Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yet another reason for the fair tax.

The tax code should have no more than eight words, not eighty million.
 
2013-05-21 01:19:32 PM

ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers


That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.
 
2013-05-21 01:23:13 PM
It is almost like that giant talking vagina, Jobs, is still alive.  If all goes as he planned we will indeed be building phones for the Chinese in 3 years.  Just the kind of Dickensian jerb push we need :)
This is not about greed, but insufferable greed.  "Put lead back into clean drinking water and then charge people for clean water" kinda greed that makes me kinda stabby.
 
2013-05-21 01:24:14 PM

Pappy091: chocolate covered poop: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: mongbiohazard: That's not to say we don't need any rich or should dissolve all large corporations... but we do need to re-balance the system which has tilted so very far in favor of them already. That lack of balance is why for decades now the average American has steadily become more and more impoverished and the weathiest have been getting wealthier at an increasing pace (which is where the wealth of the poor and middle class has been re-distributed to).

The money which is piling up and stagnating in those piles of dynastic wealth should be circulating through the economy instead. There's a reason why our economy is so fragile now, and recovering so anemically (we need both supply AND demand, not just supply). It would make for a stronger, healthier, more prosperous nation for everyone if we could re-balance things back towards the masses a bit and away from the wealthy.

Looking at the big picture, it's fairly obvious what has happened over the last 30 years. It has to do with a battle between the forces trying to raise wages, and the forces trying to raise assets. The asset side, of course, has won this battle in both parties.

Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.

Wait, what?  The assumption that wealth is finite is invalid?  Explain.
Also it's not so much that the rich person that has $100 that someone else could, it's that the extra $100 in the hands of someone who already has $2,000,000 in their bank account is less likely to spend that incremental $100 than the family who is living paycheck to paycheck on $30,000 /yr...so its win-win: improving quality of life of the less fortunate and also getting money flowing through the economy.


That $100 isn't sitting in their bank account. It's invested in some form or fashion in the economy. That $100 isn't taken out of the pool.

This is the exact reason that our schools should teach more economic/financial classes.


So there's some physical or economic law that says the $100 HAS to be invested?  That the earned interest isn't just a self fulfilling snowball effect of inflation?  Or that any real value generated from that interest isn't just swapped back and forth between those who are already exorbitantly wealthy (just bankers swapping money and none of it ever actually returns to the bottom of the pyramid).  And these investments might help nominal GDP but I sincerely doubt they have anywhere near the impact on unemployment as most people like to believe.  and I think that comes to the core of the issue, why do we want the economy to be "good"?  is it so that the median human quality of life improves, or just so the aggregate pile of human "wealth" grows?

and part of the education problem is that economics and finance are pseudo-sciences that are cast off at times as actual science - there are no underlying physical phenomena that unify economic observations, yet we treat most economic notions with a level of sacredness one might grant to the laws of thermodynamics.  or at the very least economic systems are so complex and linked to human decisions that trying to come up with any theoretical background is presently impossible. so it's become highly empirical in nature, and as human history proceeds we are collecting more and more data points that could suggest some of our old assumptions might have been flawed, or outright bad ideas.
 
2013-05-21 01:24:23 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: unlikely: So I'm fuzzy on this. Do we hate loopholes that allow corporations to dodge taxes or not?


Well, see that's the tricky part. ...(snip)


That was a thing of beauty, and sadly, truth.
 
2013-05-21 01:27:23 PM
duenor:

The problem here is that Apple doesn't HAVE to stay in the US. They do so because it suits them, but it's not absolutely necessary. Their attitude (shared among many corps) is that, "Well if you're going to tax us that much we'll just leave and you get a pittance."

Why would it hurt the US? They are only paying on their US gains and they funnel their loses to the US and their gains the tax havens. What gets lost if they move? The US would still tax them on their US earnings. Maybe we'll lost taxes on some of their execs.. but whatever. Let them move to China or Ireland, or the Cayman Islands.

but then again, I'm stupid.
 
2013-05-21 01:28:21 PM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


Does your dad own a dealership?
 
2013-05-21 01:29:10 PM

Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.



Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.
 
2013-05-21 01:29:42 PM

kimmygibblershomework: It is almost like that giant talking vagina, Jobs, is still alive.  If all goes as he planned we will indeed be building phones for the Chinese in 3 years.  Just the kind of Dickensian jerb push we need :)
This is not about greed, but insufferable greed.  "Put lead back into clean drinking water and then charge people for clean water" kinda greed that makes me kinda stabby.


What kind of organizations run the water supplies?
 
2013-05-21 01:30:54 PM

chocolate covered poop: So there's some physical or economic law that says the $100 HAS to be invested?  That the earned interest isn't just a self fulfilling snowball effect of inflation?  Or that any real value generated from that interest isn't just swapped back and forth between those who are already exorbitantly wealthy (just bankers swapping money and none of it ever actually returns to the bottom of the pyramid).  And these investments might help nominal GDP but I sincerely doubt they have anywhere near the impact on unemployment as most people like to believe.  and I think that comes to the core of the issue, why do we want the economy to be "good"?  is it so that the median human quality of life improves, or just so the aggregate pile of human "wealth" grows?

and part of the education problem is that economics and finance are pseudo-sciences that are cast off at times as actual science - there are no underlying physical phenomena that unify economic observations, yet we treat most economic notions with a level of sacredness one might grant to the laws of thermodynamics.  or at the very least economic systems are so complex and linked to human decisions that trying to come up with any theoretical background is presently impossible. so it's become highly empirical in nature, and as human history proceeds we are collecting more and more data points that could suggest some of our old assumptions might have been flawed, or outright bad ideas.


There is no "law", it's just common sense. The super rich aren't sitting around with hundreds of millions of dollars in cash sitting in their bank accounts. At the very least they will be invested in low rish ventures such as CDs, bonds, etc.

When I say that we should teach our youth about financials/economics, I don't just mean how to invest in the stock market. I am talking about how to save for retirement, the dangers of too much debt, how to buy a house that you can afford, the benefits of living within your means, etc.
 
2013-05-21 01:31:09 PM

Source4leko: How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?


You have to deserve it. See, poor people are poor because they deserve it. Rich people are rich because they deserve it. If you aren't rich, it's because you didn't deserve. If you did, you'd be rich. QED
 
2013-05-21 01:31:19 PM

Pappy091: I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Let me guess.  You also believe "The world needs ditch diggers too" and don't see the contradiction of the two statements.

If not, please explain how a society can operate with all chiefs and no indians.
 
2013-05-21 01:32:27 PM

Magnus: Magorn: Average household income in constant dollars has been stagnant since 1974

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/household/

Average household income 1974 in 2011 US dollars:  $71,163
Average household income 2011 in 2011 US dollars:  $121,084
source:  Census Bureau.


This is one of the worst misreadings of data I have ever seen. You got those numbers from Table H-17 from your Census Bureau link, but they are not dollar values. Those are the numbers (in thousands) of households in 1974 and 2011, not the median household income for those years.

Did it seriously not tip you off that you were doing something wrong when you pegged the median household income for 2011 at $121,084? Did that number actually sound reasonable to you?
 
2013-05-21 01:32:38 PM

cman: Tim Cook could shiat down the throats of everyone and they will like it because he is Apple


southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com

He bereeves in ru!
 
2013-05-21 01:33:32 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Source4leko: How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?

You have to deserve it. See, poor people are poor because they deserve it. Rich people are rich because they deserve it. If you aren't rich, it's because you didn't deserve. If you did, you'd be rich. QED


No, I really want someone to explain this so me.  I am tired of just getting farked, and I know things are never going to change, so I figure why not become the person doing the farking.  I want to know how I do that, no shiat.
 
2013-05-21 01:33:40 PM

Phinn: Dusk-You-n-Me: Oh boy. I don't think we need to converse anymore. Good luck out there on your own.

No one is on his own.  I'm certainly not.

The difference between you and me is that I cooperate with everyone I interact with.  I give more than I take.  I never rob, steal, or threaten them.  I never do so directly, and I never rely on an agent or proxy to do those things for me.

It takes hundreds of people working in dozens of different places just to make a pencil.  When I buy that pencil, I am cooperating with a complex web of people, none of whom knows everyone else, but we all cooperate, for our mutual benefit, to make and have useful things.

You, on the other hand, take and take and take and take, and you resent the people who organize people into productive enterprises.  You cheerlead from the sidelines as the Men With Guns go around telling everyone what they can make, what they have to charge for it, and how much everyone is supposed to pay for their "services."  This is from you, I'm sure, who has built nothing, created nothing, employed no one, and helped no one.

How many successful, self-sustaining enterprises have you created that employed anyone?  More than 5 people?  Ten?

I wouldn't trust a shiat-stain taker like you to run a Starbucks for one shift.  But you presume to know that the people who help create EVERYTHING you use in your life, from the coffee you drink to the shoes on your feet, must certainly OWE MORE than what they've already paid.  As if you know.  As if you've taken the time to carefully calculate it all.

The creators and producers of all of the desired things in this world owe you fark-all.


This is the epitome of what is wrong with this country, it's literally fark you i got mine.
 
2013-05-21 01:34:07 PM

Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.


Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.
 
2013-05-21 01:34:47 PM

Space Station Wagon: Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.

Does your dad own a dealership?


Huh? No.....why?
 
2013-05-21 01:39:27 PM
It just shows hypocritcal all the leftists are.  You can find the most left-leaning company and ceo out there, one who demands taxes be increased every chance he gets, and you will find the company jumps through hoops to avoid paying taxes.

they want taxes to be raised - on everyone else, but not themselves.

also, high taxes favor incumbent companies.  the higher tax rates are, the lower the chance a new challenger company can unseat the incumbent company.  there is a selfish purpose for advocating liberalism.
 
2013-05-21 01:42:04 PM

snocone: Show of hands, plz.
Stockholders should not take precedence over citizens.
Was there a shift from for the "Good of the American People" to "Whatever the Stockholder Needs" or was it always that way?


www.maggiesnotebook.com

There you go again...

 
2013-05-21 01:43:21 PM

Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.


What youth can afford that now? College kids can't even get a decent job, and are burdened with heavy debt right out of the gate.

Until the economy improves, we are screwed. Economy will never improve to what it needs to be with liberals in charge.
 
2013-05-21 01:43:37 PM

Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.


A lot of young people barely make enough to cover their bills. Expecting them to put aside enough money to make that IRA worthwhile is pretty ridiculous.
 
2013-05-21 01:45:30 PM
If Apple is following the law, they're just doing what Congress incentivized them to do. Personally I don't look to maximize my tax liability every April.
 
2013-05-21 01:46:39 PM
Here are a few salient points:
1) Apple pays taxes on all profits is makes in each country in which it makes those profits.  German profits are paid to Germany; Japan profits are paid to Japan; US profits are paid to the US; etc.
2) Apple is simply transferring its ALREADY TAXED foreign profits to Ireland for centralized management. Apple pays taxes to Ireland, at an arguably low tax rate, when it makes these transfers. This violates no laws anywhere and is not immoral.
3) Apple is only required to pay US income tax on these foreign profits if it chooses to transfer these funds back to the US.  Under US law, Apple is not required to transfer its foreign profits back to the US.
4) Lastly, let's remember that Apple pays US taxes, at a 35% tax rate, on all interest earned through investments of it's foreign capital.
Maybe the US government should reduce the tax rate for the return foreign profits to the US.  Remember, these profits have already been appropriately taxed by foreign governments.
 
2013-05-21 01:46:43 PM

Thunderpipes: Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.

What youth can afford that now? College kids can't even get a decent job, and are burdened with heavy debt right out of the gate.

Until the economy improves, we are screwed. Economy will never improve to what it needs to be with liberals in charge.


cdn.fd.uproxx.com
 
2013-05-21 01:47:51 PM

bingethinker: Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.

A lot of young people barely make enough to cover their bills. Expecting them to put aside enough money to make that IRA worthwhile is pretty ridiculous.


You would be shocked at how little you needed to put away to make it worthwhile. 10% would be ideal, but if the isn't feasible all the time then even a few percent of each paycheck would make a big difference 30-40 years down the road. Everyone can do it. You may need to sacrifice a few beers over the weekend before you get settled in your career/life, but it is worth it. You don't have to get started in your early 20's. Better late than never.
 
2013-05-21 01:48:09 PM

Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.


Inherited a house no mortage, and I save 10% of my income, with 3% of my pre tax pay in an IRA with employer matching.  Car will be paid off at the end of the summer, student loans equal one days pay a month.  I made the average wage (approx 40k).  I have CC debt that I am paying down from when I was injured and had to take unpaid time off work.  I eat out maybe one day a week, and the other 6 nights a week myself and other mid 20's friends all cook a large dinner for all of us to save money.  I am asking you what I can change to actually become a 'have'.  Not "save for retirement" bullshiat that you think middle income earners and below don't understand, they just cant afford it.  So what should I change to become a 'have'?  Go to busisness school?  Because my 40k is just enough for me to work my way out of minor CC debt, keep current with small car and student loan payments, and put away enough for my property tax (10% of my income, pre tax.)  God help me if I had a kid.  Or if I get hurt again.  And it hurts my brain to think about if I wasn't fortunate enough to inherit someplace to live, how long it would take
 
2013-05-21 01:49:03 PM
(continued from accidentally hitting add comment)

How long it would take me to save to actually buy a house, hell or a condo.  I just want to know what easy things I can do to become a have, since I've heard it so much.
 
2013-05-21 01:49:56 PM

Source4leko: Dusk-You-n-Me: Source4leko: How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?

You have to deserve it. See, poor people are poor because they deserve it. Rich people are rich because they deserve it. If you aren't rich, it's because you didn't deserve. If you did, you'd be rich. QED

No, I really want someone to explain this so me.  I am tired of just getting farked, and I know things are never going to change, so I figure why not become the person doing the farking.  I want to know how I do that, no shiat.


1. Earn more than you spend.

2. Invest the difference in cash-generating ways, either through conventional financial instruments (IRAs, funds, etc.), or use it to start or expand a profitable enterprise. Which will help you earn more ...

3. Repeat.

How do you identify a profitable business to start and grow? Learn to give the people what they want. Start by asking yourself that question 90 times a day -- what can I do to deliver something to people that they want?

Give, give, give. Focus on yourself and your production of desired goods and services. Focus on other people's unmet (or undermet) wants.

Learning how to get paid in the process is always much easier than figuring out what people really want but don't have.

Once you've done this a few times, and built profitable businesses that please lots and lots of satisfied customers, you'll soon encounter all the myriad ways that government will get in your way, take from you, and favor its cronies.

Have fun!
 
2013-05-21 01:51:22 PM

Pappy091: Almet: Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...

Warren Buffet disagrees

Well, I am in generally in a higher tax bracket and I can promise you that I pay much higher taxes than my employees do. While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.


This is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever read. Whether you get a refund, and the amount of that refund, tells nobody anything about the amount, or percentage, of taxes you pay.
 
2013-05-21 01:51:29 PM
so does this make microsoft the least evil smartphone maker?
 
2013-05-21 01:52:26 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Misplaced Anger

Don't blame Apple's pencil whippers.

Blame Congress for Title 26 USC. Apple is using loopholes and accounting Congress made part of the Tax Code at Title 26.

Be angry at Congress.


I'm already perpetually angry at Congress. It's exhausting!
 
2013-05-21 01:54:33 PM

Phinn: Source4leko: Dusk-You-n-Me: Source4leko: How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?

You have to deserve it. See, poor people are poor because they deserve it. Rich people are rich because they deserve it. If you aren't rich, it's because you didn't deserve. If you did, you'd be rich. QED

No, I really want someone to explain this so me.  I am tired of just getting farked, and I know things are never going to change, so I figure why not become the person doing the farking.  I want to know how I do that, no shiat.

1. Earn more than you spend.

2. Invest the difference in cash-generating ways, either through conventional financial instruments (IRAs, funds, etc.), or use it to start or expand a profitable enterprise. Which will help you earn more ...

3. Repeat.

How do you identify a profitable business to start and grow? Learn to give the people what they want. Start by asking yourself that question 90 times a day -- what can I do to deliver something to people that they want?

Give, give, give. Focus on yourself and your production of desired goods and services. Focus on other people's unmet (or undermet) wants.

Learning how to get paid in the process is always much easier than figuring out what people really want but don't have.

Once you've done this a few times, and built profitable businesses that please lots and lots of satisfied customers, you'll soon encounter all the myriad ways that government will get in your way, take from you, and favor its cronies.

Have fun!


Oh look, another answer that could be on CNN.com of 'how to save for retirement'.  There was a ton of new information there.  I think you forgot 'buy low, sell high!'   Also, thanks for the chip about how the government will take from me, that makes me realize you aren't an ideologue at all, and that your information is not ideologically motivated in any way.
 
2013-05-21 01:55:46 PM

Source4leko: Phinn: Source4leko: Dusk-You-n-Me: Source4leko: How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?

You have to deserve it. See, poor people are poor because they deserve it. Rich people are rich because they deserve it. If you aren't rich, it's because you didn't deserve. If you did, you'd be rich. QED

No, I really want someone to explain this so me.  I am tired of just getting farked, and I know things are never going to change, so I figure why not become the person doing the farking.  I want to know how I do that, no shiat.

1. Earn more than you spend.

2. Invest the difference in cash-generating ways, either through conventional financial instruments (IRAs, funds, etc.), or use it to start or expand a profitable enterprise. Which will help you earn more ...

3. Repeat.

How do you identify a profitable business to start and grow? Learn to give the people what they want. Start by asking yourself that question 90 times a day -- what can I do to deliver something to people that they want?

Give, give, give. Focus on yourself and your production of desired goods and services. Focus on other people's unmet (or undermet) wants.

Learning how to get paid in the process is always much easier than figuring out what people really want but don't have.

Once you've done this a few times, and built profitable businesses that please lots and lots of satisfied customers, you'll soon encounter all the myriad ways that government will get in your way, take from you, and favor its cronies.

Have fun!

Oh look, another answer that could be on CNN.com of 'how to save for retirement'.  There was a ton of new information there.  I think you forgot 'buy low, sell high!'   Also, thanks for the chip about how the government will take from me, that makes me realize you aren't an ideologue at all, and that your information is not ideologically motivated in any way.


How many businesses have you started?
 
2013-05-21 01:57:36 PM

Source4leko: Oh look, another answer that could be on CNN.com of 'how to save for retirement'


Nobody's claiming it's rocket science to be comfortable.
 
2013-05-21 01:58:51 PM

SlothB77: You can find the most left-leaning company and ceo out there, one who demands taxes be increased every chance he gets, and you will find the company jumps through hoops to avoid paying taxes.


Is Apple really the most left-leaning company? Has Tim Cook really called for higher taxes "every chance he gets"? Or was that a story someone sold to you?
 
2013-05-21 01:59:04 PM
This thread is an excellent example of why it's not possible to have an intelligent public debate about taxes. In general farkers are pretty smart but on this issue even they are clueless.
 
2013-05-21 02:04:25 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Misplaced Anger

Don't blame Apple's pencil whippers.

Blame Congress for Title 26 USC. Apple is using loopholes and accounting Congress made part of the Tax Code at Title 26.

Be angry at Congress.


About 90% of the people in this thread are getting it wrong. This is NOT a loophole. It is the way the system is supposed to work, but Apple is throwing all ethics and honor to the wind in using it.

Licensing costs are a valid tax deduction. If I create a small factory in the US manufacturing Festina watches, and have to send 45% of my gross to Barcelona in order to use the Festina name, of course that's a completely valid deduction, and I shouldn't have to pay taxes on it. Even if Spain had a corporate tax rate of 0%, that's not an issue for the US authorities to address.

Apple is manufacturing the boss from whole cloth. So they sell an iMac for $2000, and send $1000 to a company in Ireland that doesn't exist, so that they can use their own brand. Technically, it's legal, but anyone would agree that the intent of the law is otherwise. Congress knows this is going to blow up in their faces, so they want to put on a dog and pony show to show people how much they care.

Save your time and don't bother writing to whichever idiot is supposed to be looking out for you in Congress. The answer to this is public shaming. Don't go after Apple. Put pressure on their customers. If you're an IT geek, make it known that only retarded sh*tbags use Apple products. Every chance you get, remind people that all the money from their shiny new iPad went to an imaginary company in Ireland, and that's why their kid doesn't have a freaking job. The Apple brand in IT circles needs to become what Nike has become to serious runners.
 
2013-05-21 02:06:43 PM

YixilTesiphon: Source4leko: Oh look, another answer that could be on CNN.com of 'how to save for retirement'

Nobody's claiming it's rocket science to be comfortable.


Actually, he's given me a business idea -- a website (app, social media portal?) devoted to providing resources, training and encouragement to 20-somethings to help them start businesses.

Concrete help for the young person who wants to be an entrepreneur and still hold onto his social values.

If I can't think of one, and he can't think of one, then it already sounds like an unmet need.
 
2013-05-21 02:09:06 PM

Pappy091: Netrngr: Magorn: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.


Fact: While the average consumer has more material goods than ever before they are also taking on historic levels of debt to pay for them.

Well maybe if these people would learn how to manage their money and not go into debt for them they wouldn't be in nearly the condition they are now. You never go into debt for playthings. That's the problem in a nutshell. too many peoples parents didn't teach them the meaning of the words No, Need,and Want.
The level of entitlement im seeing in the early to mid twenty somethings is astounding. Since when did being here actually guarantee you anything.  Case and point... The brides sister calls he constantly wanting money for rent power etc yet always has money to party but she ends up paying her bills.. that is until the last time she called crying and i demanded the wife not send a red cent. Amazingly she went to work the next day.
I would say it was just her but I'm seeing it all over. WTF happened?

It's a major failing of our country that our youth has no understanding of sound financial management.

One of the biggest reasons that the children of people that are well off are way more likely to be well off themselves is because they are much more likely to be taught how to manage money in a smart, forward thinking way. The farther down the income scale you go the less knowledge there is of basic finance, much less things like retirement investing, etc.


You know what would happen if the youth of today WERE taught sound financial management, moral rectitude and generally to have a lesser appetite for the consumption of commerical goods?  The Economy fails.  It drops right the fark off a cliff and doesn;t come back.  Seriously,  the American economy is now entirely dependent on consumer spending.   During the worst part of the Great recession in 2009 it was reported that people were saving more, paying off existing debts and showing a general reluctance to take on new ones.   Wall Street's reaction was just short of panic.  Economists the country over from both sides of the political aisle opined about how disatrous a state of affairs this was and called on the government to do something, anything to fix it.

That's the brutal bottom line right now.  Our whole economy is utterly depndant on middle class consumers making wrong choices for themselves that hurt them financially.  If tey stop, the whole house of cards comes crashing down/
 
2013-05-21 02:09:54 PM

Phinn: Actually, he's given me a business idea -- a website (app, social media portal?) devoted to providing resources, training and encouragement to 20-somethings to help them start businesses.

Concrete help for the young person who wants to be an entrepreneur and still hold onto his social values.

If I can't think of one, and he can't think of one, then it already sounds like an unmet need.


There's literally tons of services *claiming* to meet that need, the trouble is separating yourself from the charlatans.  Or marketing effectively enough that you can get away with being a charlatan yourself.
 
2013-05-21 02:11:05 PM

Magorn: You know what would happen if the youth of today WERE taught sound financial management, moral rectitude and generally to have a lesser appetite for the consumption of commerical goods?  The Economy fails.  It drops right the fark off a cliff and doesn;t come back.


DERP
 
2013-05-21 02:14:22 PM
A corporation is finding loopholes to avoid paying taxes?  I'm SHOCKED,  SHOCKED I tell you!

Was  s23.postimg.org   tag on vacation?
 
2013-05-21 02:17:38 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Cook should just strip and drop a hot crackling shiat on the table while looking the lead of the panel in the eye and say "If you don't like it, change the law", then wipe with 100 dollar bills.


And that's the gist of the problem in one fell (funny) swoop.  It's the laws and the lawmakers who are the problem, not the corporations.  Everyone wants things to be in their favor (can't fault corporations for trying to make as much money as possible...that's what they do, they're a business), it's the politicians who are the ones decided to allow the corporations to get away with it.  It'd be like baseball allowing players to use steroids, and then the fans get upset when the players start using it...
 
2013-05-21 02:21:37 PM

Pappy091: theorellior: Pappy091: Wrong on almost all counts. I am not rich, not even close. I would love to be in the 5%. Hopefully I will be by the time I retire.

Oh, so you're just one of the temporarily disadvantaged rich people. You'll qualify for that big tax break one day, gol durn it!

Hopefully, and then you will be free to hate me. I will be too rich to care, lol.


This mentality is what's wrong with this country.
 
2013-05-21 02:22:21 PM

Source4leko: Pappy091: Source4leko: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?

I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers

That is absolutely ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. No one can "control it all". They aren't burying gold bars in the backyard.

I think it's just easier for a lot of people to complain about the haves vs. the have not rather than work to become one of the haves, which is shockingly easy to do. Not talking about you specifically, just people in general that share your view point.


Care to elaborate on this?  How it is "Shockingly easy" to become one of the haves?  I am legitimately curious how this is so easy.

Live within your means and start saving/investing at an early age. Don't buy a house you can't afford with no to little down payment. Don't run up your CCs every month. etc, etc.

If your average person started investing in a Roth IRA or some other retirement investment in their early 20's they would retire a multi-millionaire. It's so easy that it is insane that more people don't do it. I know I sound like a broken record, but the reason it isn't done is because our youth isn't taught to do it.

Inherited a house no mortage, and I save 10% of my income, with 3% of my pre tax pay in an IRA with employer matching.  Car will be paid off at the end of the summer, student loans equal one days pay a month.  I made the average wage (approx 40k).  I have CC debt that I am paying down from when I was injured and had to take u ...


I simplified it as much as I can.

I don't know, or want to know, enough about you to become your life coach. From what you said it sounds like you are doing much better than most people your age. There are a lot of people that would consider you one of the "haves". Keep doing what you are doing.

Are you asking how to become super rich by your mid twenties?  Invent Facebook or something.
 
2013-05-21 02:23:19 PM

you have pee hands: Phinn: Actually, he's given me a business idea -- a website (app, social media portal?) devoted to providing resources, training and encouragement to 20-somethings to help them start businesses.

Concrete help for the young person who wants to be an entrepreneur and still hold onto his social values.

If I can't think of one, and he can't think of one, then it already sounds like an unmet need.

There's literally tons of services *claiming* to meet that need, the trouble is separating yourself from the charlatans.  Or marketing effectively enough that you can get away with being a charlatan yourself.


Some of us don't want to be charlatans.
 
2013-05-21 02:31:22 PM

ZeroPly: About 90% of the people in this thread are getting it wrong. This is NOT a loophole. It is the way the system is supposed to work, but Apple is throwing all ethics and honor to the wind in using it.


No they are not.  Businesses exist to make money for their shareholders.  Not to make you feel good and cuddly.  Noble concepts like "ethics" and "honor" have nothing to do it.
 
2013-05-21 02:33:35 PM

GBB: I think the only way to actually get this done is to offer to Rebuplicans a lower corporate tax rate, but also attach legislation that eliminates many loopholes. If they turn it down, then they look petty for not accepting what they've been asking for.


lol

Those companies didn't buy those Republican and Democrat politicians for nothing. You guys are adorable with the way you think Democrats aren't corrupt. The only difference between them is that the Republicans actually admit that they are corrupt.
 
2013-05-21 02:34:11 PM

theorellior: The more I parse it, the more I think Pappy091 is trolling everyone. The tone of that post reminds me of the "top-shelf pussy" frat troll.


I just mark all his posts as "Funny" and move along.  Just assuming he's a troll, but either way the shiat he says is pretty funny (in a "senile grandparent" kind of way)
 
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