If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Talking Points Memo)   Apple is so hip, they've been making up Irish-American corporations that reside in both countries yet pay taxes in neither. That's like...whoa, man. My mind just got blown by your bodacious use of tax loopholes   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 380
    More: Asinine, Apple Inc., United States, u.s. income tax, share buyback, income taxes  
•       •       •

7664 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 May 2013 at 10:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



380 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-05-21 12:28:41 PM

van1ty: A corporation will spend 100 million dollars to avoid paying 99 million in taxes.


And then they'll claim that $100M as a deductible business expense the following year.
 
2013-05-21 12:29:02 PM

Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.

That wasn't my post. But it is true that our economy is 70% reliant on consumer spending. While corporate profits are at historic highs, wages are at historic lows. The middle class does not have any money to spend on things beyond necessities. As a result aggregate demand is suffering. So companies aren't hiring. So wages suffer even more. And on and on we go, down the spiral towards the bottom.

I believe it is a false belief that the middle class is suffering. Saying that they only have money to spend on necessities is just laughable in my opinion. Unless we have gotten to a point in our country where 52" flat screens and 2200 sq ft houses are "necessary".


http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-03/opinions/35491334_1_mi dd le-class-median-household-income-income-gains

FTA: "Wage levels in the middle and below have barely budged since the 1970s because of a barrage of shifts in our economy and economic institutions - from globalization and technological advances to the decline of unions and new corporate practices that emphasize value for shareholders. Most of the increase that did happen in middle-class incomes was not because of rising wages but because households added a second earner. "
 
2013-05-21 12:29:19 PM

Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Just look at the quality of life that the lower/middle classes have today compared to 50 years ago.

Hey what a coincidence, 40% of Americans now make less than the 1968 minimum wage. Things are totally better.

Pappy091: Redistribution of wealth is not the way to raise the lower/middle class

Sure it is. That's what taxes are, a redistribution of wealth. Those who have been successful need to pay back the country that facilitated their wealth. It's We the People, not Me the Person. I don't have kids, but I don't mind paying for public schools because it enhances the public good, and that's good for everybody - poor, middle, and rich.

I MIGHT be able to see some reason in that argument if I thought that for one second our government was good stewards of our money.

 Yes, they're terrible stewards, which is why we no longer have an army and were conquered by commies, and we aren't a superpower, and we don't enjoy a high standard of living....
 
2013-05-21 12:30:58 PM

Pappy091: I MIGHT be able to see some reason in that argument if I thought that for one second our government was good stewards of our money.


Well since you've already stated:

Also, earlier governmental action is the root cause of every problem you describe.

and

Those that have been successful have done so in spite of governmental interference and harm.

It's pretty clear what you think of our government. I do not agree government is the cause of all of our problems (nor the solution to all of our problems). Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together (B. Frank). If you don't have any confidence in the government the answer isn't to write it off completely. The government isn't going away. The answer is to make it better.
 
2013-05-21 12:31:41 PM

Pappy091: Almet: Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...

Warren Buffet disagrees

Well, I am in generally in a higher tax bracket and I can promise you that I pay much higher taxes than my employees do. While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.


So, you don't understand how paying taxes work, and you somehow know how much your employees  get refunded?

Now you sound like a liar as well as a fool.
 
2013-05-21 12:31:48 PM

Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: I believe it is a false belief that the middle class is suffering.

It isn't false. It's a fact that wages are at historic lows. It's a fact that half the jobs in America pay less than $34,000 a year. It's a fact that without government assistance, 30% of our population would live in poverty. It's a fact that one in five children in the U.S. lives in poverty. You can ignore it, as most of our politicians and media does, or you can accept it and decide whether this is how you think the richest most powerful nation in the world should operate.

I think that most of the world laughs their asses of at America's definition of poverty. I'm not saying that the lower class should be content, but our definition of classes is way out of whack with the rest of the world. Just look at the quality of life that the lower/middle classes have today compared to 50 years ago.

This is still America, where you are responsible for your life. Everyone has the opportunity to be successful, however they define success. Redistribution of wealth is not the way to raise the lower/middle class. Better education with an emphasis on financial smarts is a good start though.


Cool, so we should be holding our standard of living to what the world thinks is appropriate?  Since a poor person in Bangladesh things a poor person in New York is rich that means the person in New York is really just a complainer.  I mean, 98% of poor households in the U.S have a refrigerator, poor my ass, right?
 
2013-05-21 12:33:57 PM

Cubicle Jockey: snocone: Was there a shift from for the "Good of the American People" to "Whatever the Stockholder Needs" or was it always that way?

The shift from "Stakeholder" capitalism to "Shareholder" capitalism in the US, can be traced back to a couple of journal articles in the late 70's, early 80's. It was promoted heavily by Jack Welch and other high profile executives, and ended up being adopted by the majority of American and British firms.

http://www.salon.com/2011/03/29/failure_of_shareholder_capitalism/

As the Salon article above points out, Shareholder capitalism has not been good for most folks, and has even failed in it's primary purpose of increasing share prices.

It has, however, helped make CEO's obscenely wealthy, and will therefore remain the default mode for all companies until there are widespread shareholder revolts against their boards.


Would be a neat trick to "encourage" BODs to leash up their CEOs. I just don't understand how they abrogate that responsibility and give away all that nice money. This group should have some smarts.
But since I know how you create, feed and keep a BOD, good luck.
 
2013-05-21 12:34:03 PM

Pappy091: This is still America, where you are responsible for your life. Everyone has the opportunity to be successful, however they define success. Redistribution of wealth is not the way to raise the lower/middle class. Better education with an emphasis on financial smarts is a good start though.



We already HAVE wealth redistribution, and have had it since the late 70's...

For the average American wages have risen around 24% since 1979.... but at the same time cost of living has risen over 60%. That means the average American is poorer then their parents and grandparents were. The proportion of those living below the poverty line has also risen.

Meanwhile the very wealthy have increased their wealth during that same time period by over 280%. The wealth IS being redistributed upwards - and sharply. Corporate profits have also risen sharply during this period while worker productivity rises as well. No one in the middle and bottom is seeing any of those gains. They are entirely being consumed by the already wealthy - AND MORE.

This is not a recipe for long-term national success. Demand is important to any economic system, and we have almost entirely neglected demand in favor of "supply side" type economics for decades now. That was dumb. WIthout anyone who can afford products, who are they going to be sold to? This is why our economic recovery has been so anemic. That will only continue to worsen as these trends continue, and the end result will eventually be a society of permenant, fixed classes/castes - with the lower castes in a form of indentured servitude.
 
2013-05-21 12:34:09 PM

van1ty: A corporation will spend 100 million dollars to avoid paying 99 million in taxes.


Not really.  A couple million bucks will get you some pretty good tax planning.
 
2013-05-21 12:34:14 PM
For these threads about the evils of the rich people is why I have this...

imageshack.us

Am I just not being open minded about the superfluous rich?
I mean, I like Warren Buffet because he has some form of conscious. Eh?
How much of G.E. does he own?
 
2013-05-21 12:36:32 PM

pute kisses like a man: i wonder, would the US make more in tax revenue if it decreased taxes?


Don't make me Laff.
 
2013-05-21 12:37:21 PM

Magnus: It's a fact that half the jobs in America pay less than $34,000 a year.False Statement. Again, Census Bureau check of Average Income for Americans shows this to be false for 2012.


He said less than half, which implies median. You used average, which is the mean. Two different things.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

I am not sure why the table here doesn't list median income, but it can be derived from the other columns.

The median wage is 16.71 while the mean wage is 22.01. The median is only 76% of the mean.
The mean income is $45,790.
76% of that is $34,800.

So he was wrong, but not by much (~3%).
 
2013-05-21 12:37:51 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: Well, see that's the tricky part


Since I'll be stealing some of this to kind of troll my dad, I figure I ought to do something nice for you...
 
2013-05-21 12:38:11 PM
iTaxEvasion


Guess it's time to have them claim that they invented it and so forth, so that they may start suing everyone that also evade taxes?
 
2013-05-21 12:38:57 PM

mongbiohazard: Pappy091: This is still America, where you are responsible for your life. Everyone has the opportunity to be successful, however they define success. Redistribution of wealth is not the way to raise the lower/middle class. Better education with an emphasis on financial smarts is a good start though.


We already HAVE wealth redistribution, and have had it since the late 70's...

For the average American wages have risen around 24% since 1979.... but at the same time cost of living has risen over 60%. That means the average American is poorer then their parents and grandparents were. The proportion of those living below the poverty line has also risen.

Meanwhile the very wealthy have increased their wealth during that same time period by over 280%. The wealth IS being redistributed upwards - and sharply. Corporate profits have also risen sharply during this period while worker productivity rises as well. No one in the middle and bottom is seeing any of those gains. They are entirely being consumed by the already wealthy - AND MORE.

This is not a recipe for long-term national success. Demand is important to any economic system, and we have almost entirely neglected demand in favor of "supply side" type economics for decades now. That was dumb. WIthout anyone who can afford products, who are they going to be sold to? This is why our economic recovery has been so anemic. That will only continue to worsen as these trends continue, and the end result will eventually be a society of permenant, fixed classes/castes - with the lower castes in a form of indentured servitude.


Cite source please. Also please clarify, are you saying inflation adjusted wages have gone up 24% and cost of living has grown faster than inflation, to a total of 60% since 1979?
 
2013-05-21 12:40:18 PM
Step 1) Make tax loopholes so you can get more political donations

Step 2) Get mad at the people who use those loopholes you helped make so you can get more votes

Step 3) The American people are a bunch of suckers

Are we really that surprised that this came from a tax code that has been amended over TEN THOUSAND times since it was revised in the 1980s?
 
2013-05-21 12:40:19 PM

Cubicle Jockey: So he was wrong, but not by much (~3%).


I was quoting the Times, who were quoting EPI.

Half the jobs in the nation pay less than $34,000 a year, according to the Economic Policy Institute. Link

I think most people agree that whichever number you choose, it is far too low.
 
2013-05-21 12:42:00 PM

unlikely: AngryJailhouseFistfark: Well, see that's the tricky part

Since I'll be stealing some of this to kind of troll my dad, I figure I ought to do something nice for you...


And for that, I thank ye!
 
2013-05-21 12:42:35 PM

AngryJailhouseFistfark: And we have television and cell phones to tell us that we're actually something more than serfs,


i141.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-21 12:42:56 PM
iEthics
 
2013-05-21 12:44:17 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: I MIGHT be able to see some reason in that argument if I thought that for one second our government was good stewards of our money.

Well since you've already stated:

Also, earlier governmental action is the root cause of every problem you describe.

and

Those that have been successful have done so in spite of governmental interference and harm.

It's pretty clear what you think of our government. I do not agree government is the cause of all of our problems (nor the solution to all of our problems). Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together (B. Frank). If you don't have any confidence in the government the answer isn't to write it off completely. The government isn't going away. The answer is to make it better.


Those weren't my posts.

I absolutely agree with you last statement.
 
2013-05-21 12:46:00 PM

Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.

That wasn't my post. But it is true that our economy is 70% reliant on consumer spending. While corporate profits are at historic highs, wages are at historic lows. The middle class does not have any money to spend on things beyond necessities. As a result aggregate demand is suffering. So companies aren't hiring. So wages suffer even more. And on and on we go, down the spiral towards the bottom.

I believe it is a false belief that the middle class is suffering. Saying that they only have money to spend on necessities is just laughable in my opinion. Unless we have gotten to a point in our country where 52" flat screens and 2200 sq ft houses are "necessary".


Fact: Average household income  in constant dollars has been stagnant since 1974
Fact: In 1974 the average American household had 1 income earner, not two
Fact: in the same time worker productivity has tripled as have corporate profits
Fact: The housing crisis of 2008 was precipitated in part by a recognition that after the tech bubble burst, and tanked the stock market, the increase invalue of real estate owned was the middle class, only source of accumulating wealth.
Fact: While the average consumer has more material goods than ever before they are also taking on historic levels of debt to pay for them.
Fact: Income inequality is higher tight now that at any other point in US history with a greater percentage of the wealth concentrated in the hands  of the top 10% than at any other time in US History including the Gilded Age
 
2013-05-21 12:46:35 PM

Elroydb: Step 1) Make tax loopholes so you can get more political donations

Step 2) Get mad at the people who use those loopholes you helped make so you can get more votes

Step 3) The American people are a bunch of suckers

Are we really that surprised that this came from a tax code that has been amended over TEN THOUSAND times since it was revised in the 1980s?


Wouldn't it be nice,,
Maybe a tax code written by taxpayers would work better.
 
2013-05-21 12:46:51 PM

Pappy091: Almet: Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...

Warren Buffet disagrees

Well, I am in generally in a higher tax bracket and I can promise you that I pay much higher taxes than my employees do. While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.



Wow... they're real Lucky Duckies ain't they?

prolecenter.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-21 12:47:09 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Pappy091: Almet: Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...

Warren Buffet disagrees

Well, I am in generally in a higher tax bracket and I can promise you that I pay much higher taxes than my employees do. While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.

So, you don't understand how paying taxes work, and you somehow know how much your employees  get refunded?

Now you sound like a liar as well as a fool.


I do understand how taxes work. I have a general idea of their tax returns based on conversations with them, not because I know as their employer. It is generally a much talked about subject around the water cooler during tax season. It's not something I ask about, it's just something they talk about. Telling a co-worker how much your tax return was isn't exactly uncommon.
 
2013-05-21 12:47:29 PM

Cubicle Jockey: Magnus: It's a fact that half the jobs in America pay less than $34,000 a year.False Statement. Again, Census Bureau check of Average Income for Americans shows this to be false for 2012.

He said less than half, which implies median. You used average, which is the mean. Two different things.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

I am not sure why the table here doesn't list median income, but it can be derived from the other columns.

The median wage is 16.71 while the mean wage is 22.01. The median is only 76% of the mean.
The mean income is $45,790.
76% of that is $34,800.

So he was wrong, but not by much (~3%).


Yes, two different things.  An implication is not a absolute.  That is an assumption on your part.  He also stated that "half the jobs in America pay less than $34,000 a year".   This is separate from income. Two different things.  I think we can both agree that he claimed facts that were clearly not backed up by facts.
 
2013-05-21 12:48:19 PM

Pappy091: Those weren't my posts.


My mistake. Got p-names mixed up. My apologies.
 
2013-05-21 12:49:08 PM

Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: mongbiohazard: That's not to say we don't need any rich or should dissolve all large corporations... but we do need to re-balance the system which has tilted so very far in favor of them already. That lack of balance is why for decades now the average American has steadily become more and more impoverished and the weathiest have been getting wealthier at an increasing pace (which is where the wealth of the poor and middle class has been re-distributed to).

The money which is piling up and stagnating in those piles of dynastic wealth should be circulating through the economy instead. There's a reason why our economy is so fragile now, and recovering so anemically (we need both supply AND demand, not just supply). It would make for a stronger, healthier, more prosperous nation for everyone if we could re-balance things back towards the masses a bit and away from the wealthy.

Looking at the big picture, it's fairly obvious what has happened over the last 30 years. It has to do with a battle between the forces trying to raise wages, and the forces trying to raise assets. The asset side, of course, has won this battle in both parties.

Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.


Wait, what?  The assumption that wealth is finite is invalid?  Explain.
Also it's not so much that the rich person that has $100 that someone else could, it's that the extra $100 in the hands of someone who already has $2,000,000 in their bank account is less likely to spend that incremental $100 than the family who is living paycheck to paycheck on $30,000 /yr...so its win-win: improving quality of life of the less fortunate and also getting money flowing through the economy.

Now in terms of corporate welfare, the same may not necessarily hold true, as different industries have different levels of operating expenses and require varying degrees of cash on hand to remain afloat.  Its much easier to draw a line for income tax and say that there is some reasonable ceiling where a person is rich to the point that it starts to have diminishing returns, simply as they have too much money to even spend...
 
2013-05-21 12:50:01 PM

mongbiohazard: Pappy091: This is still America, where you are responsible for your life. Everyone has the opportunity to be successful, however they define success. Redistribution of wealth is not the way to raise the lower/middle class. Better education with an emphasis on financial smarts is a good start though.


We already HAVE wealth redistribution, and have had it since the late 70's...

For the average American wages have risen around 24% since 1979.... but at the same time cost of living has risen over 60%. That means the average American is poorer then their parents and grandparents were. The proportion of those living below the poverty line has also risen.

Meanwhile the very wealthy have increased their wealth during that same time period by over 280%. The wealth IS being redistributed upwards - and sharply. Corporate profits have also risen sharply during this period while worker productivity rises as well. No one in the middle and bottom is seeing any of those gains. They are entirely being consumed by the already wealthy - AND MORE.

This is not a recipe for long-term national success. Demand is important to any economic system, and we have almost entirely neglected demand in favor of "supply side" type economics for decades now. That was dumb. WIthout anyone who can afford products, who are they going to be sold to? This is why our economic recovery has been so anemic. That will only continue to worsen as these trends continue, and the end result will eventually be a society of permenant, fixed classes/castes - with the lower castes in a form of indentured servitude.


I would be willing to bet that our parents and grandparents would completely disagree with this.
 
2013-05-21 12:50:35 PM

Magorn: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.

That wasn't my post. But it is true that our economy is 70% reliant on consumer spending. While corporate profits are at historic highs, wages are at historic lows. The middle class does not have any money to spend on things beyond necessities. As a result aggregate demand is suffering. So companies aren't hiring. So wages suffer even more. And on and on we go, down the spiral towards the bottom.

I believe it is a false belief that the middle class is suffering. Saying that they only have money to spend on necessities is just laughable in my opinion. Unless we have gotten to a point in our country where 52" flat screens and 2200 sq ft houses are "necessary".

Fact: Average household income  in constant dollars has been stagnant since 1974
Fact: In 1974 the average American household had 1 income earner, not two
Fact: in the same time worker productivity has tripled as have corporate profits
Fact: The housing crisis of 2008 was precipitated in part by a recognition that after the tech bubble burst, and tanked the stock market, the increase invalue of real estate owned was the middle class, only source of accumulating wealth.
Fact: While the average consumer has more material goods than ever before they are also taking on historic levels of debt to pay for them.
Fact: Income inequality is higher tight now that at any other point in US history with a greater percentage of the wealth concentrated in the hands  of the top 10% than at any other time in US History including the Gilded Age


The 70's keep rearing it's ugly head.
Seems that the near economic collapse fostered by corporate extortion of the government was a real game changer.
Now days, it is what is for dinner.
 
2013-05-21 12:50:55 PM

Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.



Yeah, when will the rich ever catch a break in this country?

 cdn.socialtrade.com

www.doctorhousingbubble.com

Gosh, I just don't know where this frustration comes from.   Just jealous, I guess.
 
2013-05-21 12:52:58 PM

chocolate covered poop: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: mongbiohazard: That's not to say we don't need any rich or should dissolve all large corporations... but we do need to re-balance the system which has tilted so very far in favor of them already. That lack of balance is why for decades now the average American has steadily become more and more impoverished and the weathiest have been getting wealthier at an increasing pace (which is where the wealth of the poor and middle class has been re-distributed to).

The money which is piling up and stagnating in those piles of dynastic wealth should be circulating through the economy instead. There's a reason why our economy is so fragile now, and recovering so anemically (we need both supply AND demand, not just supply). It would make for a stronger, healthier, more prosperous nation for everyone if we could re-balance things back towards the masses a bit and away from the wealthy.

Looking at the big picture, it's fairly obvious what has happened over the last 30 years. It has to do with a battle between the forces trying to raise wages, and the forces trying to raise assets. The asset side, of course, has won this battle in both parties.

Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.

Wait, what?  The assumption that wealth is finite is invalid?  Explain.
Also it's not so much that the rich person that has $100 that someone else could, it's that the extra $100 in the hands of someone who already has $2,000,000 in their bank account is less likely to spend that incremental $100 than the family who is living paycheck to paycheck on $30,000 /yr...so its win-win: improving quality of life of the less fortunate and also getting money flowing through the economy.

Now in terms of corporate welfare, the same may not necessarily hold true, as different industries have different levels of operatin ...


That $100 isn't sitting in their bank account. It's invested in some form or fashion in the economy. That $100 isn't taken out of the pool.

This is the exact reason that our schools should teach more economic/financial classes.
 
2013-05-21 12:53:22 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Government is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together


Clownshoes.

Government is the name we give to the things that are done by force, at the point of a gun.

Government is a perfect map of the things that people choose NOT to do "together" -- the things they do NOT want to do.

And the degree of force that governments use against those who do not submit their instructions is a perfect map of the degree to which they do not want to do it.

Mutual cooperation is "choosing to do things together."  That is what a market transaction is -- both parties respect each other's person and property, and mutually agree to exchange goods and services, on mutually-agreeable terms, and if either person declines to engage in the trade, then the other will not retaliate or exert force.

Commerce is mutual cooperation.  Government is the exact opposite.

I sincerely do not understand how someone could possibly be as confused as you are.
 
2013-05-21 12:54:55 PM

Phinn: Government is the name we give to the things that are done by force, at the point of a gun.


Oh boy. I don't think we need to converse anymore. Good luck out there on your own.
 
2013-05-21 12:55:23 PM

Magorn: Average household income in constant dollars has been stagnant since 1974


http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/household/

Average household income 1974 in 2011 US dollars:  $71,163
Average household income 2011 in 2011 US dollars:  $121,084
source:  Census Bureau.
 
2013-05-21 12:56:19 PM
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It's completely asinine that the Senate is yelling at Apple for following the law.  If Congress thinks Apple isn't paying enough taxes, they should change the law so they pay more.
 
2013-05-21 12:57:48 PM

Magorn: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.


Fact: While the average consumer has more material goods than ever before they are also taking on historic levels of debt to pay for them.


Well maybe if these people would learn how to manage their money and not go into debt for them they wouldn't be in nearly the condition they are now. You never go into debt for playthings. That's the problem in a nutshell. too many peoples parents didn't teach them the meaning of the words No, Need,and Want.
The level of entitlement im seeing in the early to mid twenty somethings is astounding. Since when did being here actually guarantee you anything.  Case and point... The brides sister calls he constantly wanting money for rent power etc yet always has money to party but she ends up paying her bills.. that is until the last time she called crying and i demanded the wife not send a red cent. Amazingly she went to work the next day.
I would say it was just her but I'm seeing it all over. WTF happened?
 
2013-05-21 12:58:20 PM
Not percentage wise.  And this isn't about rich people, it is about the biggest corporations in America that pay little to no tax yet they make billions of dollars.

Hey, next time try including some facts in your bullshiat.  In 2012, Apple paid $6 billion in taxes to the US Treasury.  That's about $16.5 million per day, and about 1 dollar out of every 40 paid in US corporate taxes for 2012.  For 2013 they expect to pay $7 billion in the US.

That doesn't count the taxes they pay in other countries on the revenue they get from selling products there, because -- and this may shock you -- American companies that sell stuff in, say, Japan have to pay income tax in Japan.

Yes, there are problems with the US tax system that favor corporations.  Yes, it would be a great idea to simplify corporate tax laws and close a shiat-ton of loopholes.  Get some actual numbers before claiming that one of the largest tax-payers in the country is getting a free ride though.

Challenge:  name three private individuals who pay more in US taxes than Apple.
 
2013-05-21 12:58:27 PM

Geotpf: Don't hate the player, hate the game.

It's completely asinine that the Senate is yelling at Apple for following the law.  If Congress thinks Apple isn't paying enough taxes, they should change the law so they pay more.


Congress does that to take the focus off of the real crooks, themselves. They are promoting this class warfare so that the heat is turned off of them.

This discussion is proof positive that they are succeeding.
 
2013-05-21 01:00:37 PM
Reminds me of senior year of high school.

CSB:
Had an "independent study" that was taught at my primary school, but involved driving across the country to another school that actually taught the class I wanted to take, taught by a completely different teacher.  Neither teacher ever talked to the other one ever.  I cared about the lessons, and did my work (usually at home) but it was 1st period and I was a tired/lazy high schooler.  So I could skip it on an almost daily basis, and both teachers just assumed that I was at the other school that day, and didn't bother reporting my absence.  I would show up to 2nd period as usual, and enjoy an extra 45 minutes of sleep in the morning.

Even won a state-level competition for the class I was driving to, boo ya.
 
2013-05-21 01:00:59 PM

Magnus: Magorn: Average household income in constant dollars has been stagnant since 1974

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/historical/household/

Average household income 1974 in 2011 US dollars:  $71,163
Average household income 2011 in 2011 US dollars:  $121,084
source:  Census Bureau.


Now, we should be more specific as to how many income earners are in each household during each period.  Expenses, etc.  I'm not claiming roses and champagne are pouring from all public fountains.  Just that we need to be more specific because even the Census Bureau data can leave some non-realistic impressions.
 
2013-05-21 01:01:34 PM

Magnus: Yes, two different things. An implication is not a absolute. That is an assumption on your part. He also stated that "half the jobs in America pay less than $34,000 a year". This is separate from income. Two different things. I think we can both agree that he claimed facts that were clearly not backed up by facts.



I am still unclear as to why you replied to his "Apples are red" statement with "Wrong, oranges are orange", and then decided to double down when this was pointed out.
 
2013-05-21 01:01:47 PM

Netrngr: Magorn: Pappy091: Dusk-You-n-Me: Pappy091: Like I said in a previous post. A lot of people operate under the assumption of a finite amount of wealth. "If a rich person has $100 dollars, that's $100 that the rest of us don't have". It's just not true.


Fact: While the average consumer has more material goods than ever before they are also taking on historic levels of debt to pay for them.

Well maybe if these people would learn how to manage their money and not go into debt for them they wouldn't be in nearly the condition they are now. You never go into debt for playthings. That's the problem in a nutshell. too many peoples parents didn't teach them the meaning of the words No, Need,and Want.
The level of entitlement im seeing in the early to mid twenty somethings is astounding. Since when did being here actually guarantee you anything.  Case and point... The brides sister calls he constantly wanting money for rent power etc yet always has money to party but she ends up paying her bills.. that is until the last time she called crying and i demanded the wife not send a red cent. Amazingly she went to work the next day.
I would say it was just her but I'm seeing it all over. WTF happened?


It's a major failing of our country that our youth has no understanding of sound financial management.

One of the biggest reasons that the children of people that are well off are way more likely to be well off themselves is because they are much more likely to be taught how to manage money in a smart, forward thinking way. The farther down the income scale you go the less knowledge there is of basic finance, much less things like retirement investing, etc.
 
2013-05-21 01:03:29 PM

Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

i53.tinypic.com
i52.tinypic.comi54.tinypic.comi51.tinypic.com


You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture
 
2013-05-21 01:05:47 PM

Geotpf: It's completely asinine that the Senate is yelling at Apple for following the law. If Congress thinks Apple isn't paying enough taxes, they should change the law so they pay more.


But if they change the law, they'll piss of all the corporations who pay for their campaign budgets. They only yell and fuss because some spoil-sport went and publicized it and so they have to "harrumph!" and "Wha'phlphplfff!" and point a finger in a non-specific direction and make the scowly-face.
 
2013-05-21 01:06:47 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Oh boy. I don't think we need to converse anymore. Good luck out there on your own.


No one is on his own.  I'm certainly not.

The difference between you and me is that I cooperate with everyone I interact with.  I give more than I take.  I never rob, steal, or threaten them.  I never do so directly, and I never rely on an agent or proxy to do those things for me.

It takes hundreds of people working in dozens of different places just to make a pencil.  When I buy that pencil, I am cooperating with a complex web of people, none of whom knows everyone else, but we all cooperate, for our mutual benefit, to make and have useful things.

You, on the other hand, take and take and take and take, and you resent the people who organize people into productive enterprises.  You cheerlead from the sidelines as the Men With Guns go around telling everyone what they can make, what they have to charge for it, and how much everyone is supposed to pay for their "services."  This is from you, I'm sure, who has built nothing, created nothing, employed no one, and helped no one.

How many successful, self-sustaining enterprises have you created that employed anyone?  More than 5 people?  Ten?

I wouldn't trust a shiat-stain taker like you to run a Starbucks for one shift.  But you presume to know that the people who help create EVERYTHING you use in your life, from the coffee you drink to the shoes on your feet, must certainly OWE MORE than what they've already paid.  As if you know.  As if you've taken the time to carefully calculate it all.

The creators and producers of all of the desired things in this world owe you fark-all.
 
2013-05-21 01:07:15 PM

ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture


And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?
 
2013-05-21 01:09:24 PM

Phinn: You, on the other hand,


Well that was a nice rant from up there on your high horse. But you that you know nothing about me. And this thread isn't about me. So please get off my nuts. Thank you.
 
2013-05-21 01:10:02 PM
so a  sizable portion of their yearly earnings can be tied directly to tax avoidance?
 
2013-05-21 01:10:36 PM

Pappy091: ltdanman44: Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.

[i53.tinypic.com image 590x443]
[i52.tinypic.com image 590x442][i54.tinypic.com image 590x442][i51.tinypic.com image 590x443]

You were saying? And yes, those charts are a little outdated.  The current ones do not paint any better of a picture

And why does any of that mean that we should hate rich people?


I because they control it all.  We get the leftovers
 
Displayed 50 of 380 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report