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(Talking Points Memo)   Apple is so hip, they've been making up Irish-American corporations that reside in both countries yet pay taxes in neither. That's like...whoa, man. My mind just got blown by your bodacious use of tax loopholes   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 380
    More: Asinine, Apple Inc., United States, u.s. income tax, share buyback, income taxes  
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7664 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 May 2013 at 10:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-21 08:49:26 AM
Tim Cook could shiat down the throats of everyone and they will like it because he is Apple
 
2013-05-21 08:53:08 AM
This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11
 
2013-05-21 09:33:41 AM
I'm sure this only relates to their ongoing concern about work conditions in their Chinese factories. They're still working so hard to correct the rampant abuses that their in-depth investigations uncovered in places like FoxConn, and what they're probably thinking is that when it's time to start spending some money on improving those factories and giving the employees something closer to a living wage that moves them beyond what are essentially slave conditions, it'll be good to have the money closer by. See, if the money was all the way in America, it would be harder to get it there than if it was already in a foreign country overseas. They should be lauded for their concerned efficiency.
 
2013-05-21 09:44:47 AM
So I'm fuzzy on this. Do we hate loopholes that allow corporations to dodge taxes or not?

Exxon and Halliburton might not like it if the answer is "yes we hate them, close those loopholes."
 
2013-05-21 10:07:01 AM
Fix the damn loopholes!

Also, there is significant humor in the fact that Apple is one of the biggest tax payers as well as one of the biggest tax avoiders. That's just fantastic.
 
2013-05-21 10:07:54 AM
This is why I only use Samsung devices.  Their shell corporations are far superior and lower-priced than Apple shell corporations.

My preference of shell corporations is a unique statement of my personal brand identity and I have included these preferences as a part of my personality.
 
2013-05-21 10:08:09 AM

Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


This.

Pocket Ninja: I'm sure this only relates to their ongoing concern about work conditions in their Chinese factories. They're still working so hard to correct the rampant abuses that their in-depth investigations uncovered in places like FoxConn, and what they're probably thinking is that when it's time to start spending some money on improving those factories and giving the employees something closer to a living wage that moves them beyond what are essentially slave conditions, it'll be good to have the money closer by. See, if the money was all the way in America, it would be harder to get it there than if it was already in a foreign country overseas. They should be lauded for their concerned efficiency.


Brilliant.
 
2013-05-21 10:10:25 AM

Pocket Ninja: I'm sure this only relates to their ongoing concern about work conditions in their Chinese factories. They're still working so hard to correct the rampant abuses that their in-depth investigations uncovered in places like FoxConn, and what they're probably thinking is that when it's time to start spending some money on improving those factories and giving the employees something closer to a living wage that moves them beyond what are essentially slave conditions, it'll be good to have the money closer by. See, if the money was all the way in America, it would be harder to get it there than if it was already in a foreign country overseas. They should be lauded for their concerned efficiency.


Hi-larious.
 
2013-05-21 10:11:28 AM
you got some double dutch in my irish sandwich... or whatever they call it.

i wonder, would the US make more in tax revenue if it decreased taxes?  there is a point where it's not worth the financial complexity and costs of professional hours to avoid paying taxes.  or, should it just legislate out the possibility of these clever tactics?  not that it would work.  tax people would find a new loophole, or just leave.
 
2013-05-21 10:12:41 AM

Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11



Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.
 
2013-05-21 10:13:20 AM

unlikely: So I'm fuzzy on this. Do we hate loopholes that allow corporations to dodge taxes or not? Exxon and Halliburton might not like it if the answer is "yes we hate them, close those loopholes."


Quoted for truth.
 
2013-05-21 10:14:11 AM

Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.


Bullshiat. GTFO, you watercarrying shill.
 
2013-05-21 10:14:21 AM
Cook should just strip and drop a hot crackling shiat on the table while looking the lead of the panel in the eye and say "If you don't like it, change the law", then wipe with 100 dollar bills.
 
2013-05-21 10:15:14 AM

Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...


Warren Buffet disagrees
 
2013-05-21 10:15:35 AM

Pappy091: Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


So you agree it will help. Soak 'em
 
2013-05-21 10:16:57 AM

Pocket Ninja: I'm sure this only relates to their ongoing concern about work conditions in their Chinese factories. They're still working so hard to correct the rampant abuses that their in-depth investigations uncovered in places like FoxConn, and what they're probably thinking is that when it's time to start spending some money on improving those factories and giving the employees something closer to a living wage that moves them beyond what are essentially slave conditions, it'll be good to have the money closer by. See, if the money was all the way in America, it would be harder to get it there than if it was already in a foreign country overseas. They should be lauded for their concerned efficiency.


Never disappoints.
 
2013-05-21 10:17:20 AM

Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.


I'm pretty sure I could imagine the percentage. The gross might be a bit trickier, but I could probably manage.
 
2013-05-21 10:18:14 AM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


Oh look everyone! Pappy is here tell us how bad the rich have it. Oh please, Pappy... do it some more! Stand up for those poor, oppressed, sad, rich folks who so desperately need you to defend them. They're counting on you!
 
2013-05-21 10:18:34 AM
Just in - Apple is a corporation doing what all other corporations do to reduce their tax burden. Interviews with Google, HP, IBM, and other tech giants show that they do the same thing and some even got called to testify on it last year.

/This is Apples turn in the barrel
 
2013-05-21 10:18:58 AM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


This just in, rich people ON PAPER seemingly pay far more in taxes but have an army of accountants to find all the loopholes to bring that number way down.
 
2013-05-21 10:19:44 AM
The big companies don't mind corporate taxes at all, because they can buy themselves ways around paying.

It's the smaller outfits that can't buy legislators around the world who take it in the shorts.

The game is hopelessly rigged from the start, and any attempt to patch things is only going to result in more loopholes - so the only way to win is to kick over the board. Want to have the world's businesses beating a path to our door, with the Apples of the world pouring resources into employees instead of politicians? Put this on the table:

1) No US taxes, but also 1a) no US subsidies
2) A slight just-in-case upward bump for top individual income tax rates, subject to downward revision if tax revenue numbers look good enough
3) Now, about those regulations  you were biatching about because of the cost. Looks like a lot of that cost got taken care of since you don't have to pay all those extra tax accountants, tax lawyers and tax lobbyists any more.
 
2013-05-21 10:20:38 AM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


Gross, yes, percent?  Not even close skippy.

Even my own accountant told me that for my income bracket, being single, and dependent-less, I may as well just bend over the desk.
I unfortunately lack the means to setup corporations/trusts/offshores to hide my income.
 
2013-05-21 10:20:38 AM
Two words: unitary taxation.
 
2013-05-21 10:21:14 AM
Misplaced Anger

Don't blame Apple's pencil whippers.

Blame Congress for Title 26 USC. Apple is using loopholes and accounting Congress made part of the Tax Code at Title 26.

Be angry at Congress.
 
2013-05-21 10:22:50 AM

Almet: Pappy091: This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise...

Warren Buffet disagrees


Well, I am in generally in a higher tax bracket and I can promise you that I pay much higher taxes than my employees do. While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.
 
2013-05-21 10:22:57 AM
"This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft."

This is the way that congress makes taxes laws that favor themselves. Corporations (and many individuals) take advantage of legal means created by them to pay less on the income they earn. If they did not they would not be doing "due diligence" for the share holders, which is what capitalism is all about. You can also take advantage of the same laws by creating the same environment for your self, and then using the same laws to benefit your self (and your share holders).

If it's unfair, then it's been unfairly created. So we should look to the congress who created these "Loop holes" (which there not, the are written in the bills passed) to see where they benefit from passing these kinds of laws. A corporation is categorized as "A person" and a person would be a fool to give away more money then legally required.

So just follow the money, and see you get's it, then see how the lobbiests got the bill passed, then you will find your "Loop hole" for all it's worth.
 
2013-05-21 10:23:06 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Cook should just strip and drop a hot crackling shiat on the table while looking the lead of the panel in the eye and say "If you don't like it, change the law", then wipe with 100 dollar bills.


I'm afraid to GIS that... but I want to.
 
2013-05-21 10:23:14 AM
congressional hearing live now on c-span
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 10:24:08 AM

pute kisses like a man: you got some double dutch in my irish sandwich... or whatever they call it.

i wonder, would the US make more in tax revenue if it decreased taxes?  there is a point where it's not worth the financial complexity and costs of professional hours to avoid paying taxes.  or, should it just legislate out the possibility of these clever tactics?  not that it would work.  tax people would find a new loophole, or just leave.


This is what I was thinking.  I think the only way to actually get this done is to offer to Rebuplicans a lower corporate tax rate, but also attach legislation that eliminates many loopholes.  If they turn it down, then they look petty for not accepting what they've been asking for.
 
2013-05-21 10:25:03 AM

Pappy091: While they generally get a few thousand back every year, I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.


This information has very little relationship to the actual rate that you pay. Also, if your primary earnings are from wages, then you are not the kind of wealthy that people tend to complain about.
 
2013-05-21 10:25:28 AM
I was paying taxes in the US, but then like, I created a fictitious offshore shell corporation that totally reduced my tax liability.  'Cause taxes are like, a bummer.

www.wired.com

Introducing iDontPayMyTaxes®
 
2013-05-21 10:27:03 AM
Gulper Eel:

1) No US taxes, but also 1a) no US subsidies

I think the current system of low-to-no taxes and generous subsidies is much preferred.

That doesn't even get into the subsidies and tax breaks that local governments give away.  The reason your plan will never happen is not because of some ideological intransigence on the part of politicians.  I think you'll agree that politicians have no ideology when no one's looking.

It's because nobody with skin in the game (corporations) wants it your way.  The most powerful people are most benefiting from the current system and the current system keeps the same people in power.

Nothing is going to change and I don't really care for it to.  My investments are set up for this system.
 
2013-05-21 10:27:52 AM
Let this be a lesson to you, kids: slave labor and tax evasion will make you very very rich.

/bwahahahaha
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 10:28:53 AM
You know what I would love to see?  I would love to see a major corporation track their expenses for trying to dodge taxes, combine it with their current tax liability, and take that the US Govt and say, "THIS is what we are willing to pay", and be done with it.
 
2013-05-21 10:28:58 AM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


Not percentage wise.  And this isn't about rich people, it is about the biggest corporations in America that pay little to no tax yet they make billions of dollars.

Compare that to a small local store and the taxes they pay.

Go see what Delta or GE paid in taxes last year.
 
2013-05-21 10:30:04 AM
Show of hands, plz.
Stockholders should not take precedence over citizens.
Was there a shift from for the "Good of the American People" to "Whatever the Stockholder Needs" or was it always that way?
 
2013-05-21 10:30:41 AM

cman: Tim Cook could shiat down the throats of everyone and they will like it because he is Apple Apple did nothing against the law.


ftfy
 
2013-05-21 10:30:46 AM
The more I parse it, the more I think Pappy091 is trolling everyone. The tone of that post reminds me of the "top-shelf pussy" frat troll.
 
2013-05-21 10:31:31 AM

pute kisses like a man: you got some double dutch in my irish sandwich... or whatever they call it.

i wonder, would the US make more in tax revenue if it decreased taxes?  there is a point where it's not worth the financial complexity and costs of professional hours to avoid paying taxes.  or, should it just legislate out the possibility of these clever tactics?  not that it would work.  tax people would find a new loophole, or just leave.


  In terms of corporate tax, what is needed is a combination of lowering the nominal tax rate and closing a lot of the loopholes.  Our nominal rate is 35%, so conservatives tend to latch onto that number saying that corporations pay way too much tax here. But the reality is that our effective corporate tax rate, due to various subsidies, tax breaks and loop holes, is somewhere in the range of 12-16%, and many corporations pay no taxes at all.
   The biggest loopholes are the ones like Apple is exploiting to offshore the money to what is essentially a shell company, and similar ways to create giant write-offs.

 I'd be in favor of congress lowing the statutory rate to something in the high teens or low 20s, close the loopholes, and then add some tax breaks that will increase job creation.  For example, a lot of companies complain they can't find employees with the skills they need (because they're usually looking for something stupid like 5 years experience with software only they use).   Offer companies reasonable tax breaks/incentives to train new employees with the skills they need (with the incentive based on the amount of training required), as long as they keep that employee for at least 12 months after training is complete.
 
2013-05-21 10:32:09 AM

ggecko: Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.

Not percentage wise.  And this isn't about rich people, it is about the biggest corporations in America that pay little to no tax yet they make billions of dollars.

Compare that to a small local store and the taxes they pay.

Go see what Delta or GE paid in taxes last year.


I understand, but people need to blame the system, not the business. No one is going to voluntarily pay more taxes just because.

My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.
 
2013-05-21 10:32:39 AM

Pappy091: I have to make significant quarterly payments to Uncle Sam with no return at tax time.


You do know you're not supposed to get money back for filing 941s, right?
 
2013-05-21 10:32:41 AM
Subby's notion of 'hip' has not progressed since the early '70s, I see.
 
2013-05-21 10:33:23 AM

Quiefenburger: cman: Tim Cook could shiat down the throats of everyone and they will like it because he is Apple Apple did nothing against the law.
ftfy


Its still very telling what you left in place...
 
2013-05-21 10:33:43 AM
Loopholes are just ways of sticking it to the man.  They were just sticking it to the man.  Do you love the man, or something?
 
2013-05-21 10:34:06 AM

Pappy091: My main complaint is how we are demonizing rich people/ large companies in this country. I just don't get it. They aren't the problem. It just gets under my skin when I see it.


They're not the problem to the extent that they're just a byproduct of a system of taxation that's regressive beyond the point of upper middle / lower upper class, but they sure lobby like hell to keep things that way.
 
2013-05-21 10:34:15 AM

Rapmaster2000: I think the current system of low-to-no taxes and generous subsidies is much preferred.


Oh, I know that. I just want to see which businesses want to be capitalists and which ones want to be spongers.

I know that leftists don't want it because it's the opposite of their sticking-it-to-The-Man fever dreams, wingnuts don't want it because it might mean an upward bump in income taxes, and neither party wants to part with the ability to sell favors.

But just proposing it will draw the rats out.
 
2013-05-21 10:35:42 AM
Tax evasion (aka avoidance) now standard with about any large entity.

pute kisses like a man: you got some double dutch in my irish sandwich... or whatever they call it.

i wonder, would the US make more in tax revenue if it decreased taxes?


Enforcement comes first - even if it means that you end up with an agency that makes the current efforts (and Nixon's) look nice.  Then tax decreases.


there is a point where it's not worth the financial complexity and costs of professional hours to avoid paying taxes.  or, should it just legislate out the possibility of these clever tactics?  not that it would work.  tax people would find a new loophole, or just leave.

How about just auditing the shiat out of any use of creative accounting?  Scale up the questioning to a level such that Apple couldn't provide the proper paperwork; if they can, continue to do so until they fail.  Same thing with everyone else - not just one entity or political leaning.

As for the use of other jurisdictions, consider the possibility of extraordinary rendition as an absolute last resort.  Not pleasant, but necessary if all other efforts fail.

/Not really concerned about the income
//More concerned about the arrogance of tax evaders/avoiders
///If the IRS really wants you, they *can* get you.
 
2013-05-21 10:36:07 AM
Corporate taxes are silly/ridiculous. What is gained from taxing the corporate entity as opposed to those who own it? I am not a fan of capital gains taxes (or any taxes as a libertarian), but if we are going to have them we should enact them in a way that is most efficient (taxing the corporate entity increases inefficiency because it alters their market behavior and allows it to make tax decisions for investors) and hardest to avoid (large corporate entities will always have the scale to manage operations based on tax law, individuals rarely will.
 
2013-05-21 10:37:08 AM

You're the jerk... jerk: Corporate taxes are silly/ridiculous. What is gained from taxing the corporate entity as opposed to those who own it?


Corporations are people too, my friend.
 
2013-05-21 10:38:18 AM

Pappy091: Walker: This just in (please sit down): Corporations and rich people find ways to avoid paying taxes, while the little people get audited, fined, and basically get the shaft.

/more at 11


Yay!...more income envy.

This just in, rich people pay FAR more in taxes (both percentage-wise and gross) than you could even imagine.

Why do people think that raising taxes is going to fix a rising multi-trillion dollar deficit. Raising taxes is a drop in the bucket compared to what we need to do to get out of this hole.


10/10
Well done!
 
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