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(News9 Oklahoma)   Oklahoma tornado thread #3. LGT live updates/streaming   (news9.com) divider line 138
    More: Followup, Oklahoma, Norton LiveUpdate  
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2640 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 May 2013 at 12:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-05-21 03:13:08 PM
4 votes:

TanSau: You guys really are newbs
F5 Tornado: Already posted a link on one (of many) solutions
9.0: earthquake: same link, don't build on a cliff.
Wildfires: same building, also, clear trees a MINIMUM of 50' from your home.
I'll just laugh at your asteroid comment. (points) HAha!

So I'm supposed to cure the homeless problem before I make a strong home? interdesting.jpg


Actually, dear, I think you might be the new and naive one here:

EF5 tornado (note we are NOT saying "category 5 hurricane"--the winds in an EF5 tornado are the highest winds ever measured by radar, and we don't get ground measurements of EF5 wind speeds because the farking anenometers tend not to survive)--Pretty much ANY aboveground structure is toast unless it is built to the approximate requirements of an aboveground blast shelter.  This includes your dome-home thingies, this includes even the typical construction in Guam (where apparently Category 5-equivalent typhoons and severe tropical cyclones ARE frequent enough to warrant the local construction codes calling for reinforced concrete in homes).

The very farking definition of what an EF5 tornado is can be summarised as "Will yea and verily wipe any well-constructed structure of man clean to the ground", just in case you're curious.  The definition pretty much explicitly STATES that well-built brick and even concrete structures are not just knocked down but RAZED.

When an EF5 tornado gets REALLY bad (say, Moore, Oklahoma circa 20 May 2013 or Jarrell, Texas circa 27 May 1997)...not even reinforced concrete tends to survive, not even metal survives, NOTHING GODDAMN FARKING SURVIVES ABOVE GROUND.  (It is in fact arguable that the Jarrell, Texas tornado was completely unsurvivable unless one was completely underground to a depth of at least four feet of dirt above one; there are reliable reports from the folks who surveyed that storm that state a building with reinforced concrete walls over two feet thick was completely obliterated and twelve cars (right down to the engine blocks) were so very completely destroyed that they could not find them.  Much of why the Jarrell tornado was such a horror is for pretty much the exact same reason the Moore tornado of 2013 was incredibly destructive--it was a very violent, very slow-moving tornado that tended to sit and grind the evergoddamnliving fark out of what it sat on top of like Satan's own Blendtec.)

9.0 earthquake: In general, if you are unlucky enough to be in an area where this occurs, not only is there typically Modified Mercalli Scale XI-XII levels of damage (yes, the MM scale is basically the Fujita scale for earthquakes) but there are a lot of associated dangers in areas that tend to HAVE quakes this big.  A mere series of estimated 8.4-ish earthquakes (and the only earthquakes in the US with the exception of the Great Alaska Earthquake of 1964 to have been rated XII on the Modified Mercalli Scale) actually caused the very earth to roll in waves, caused massive liquefaction of ground, caused river-based tsunamis that LITERALLY CHANGED THE COURSE OF THE LARGEST RIVER IN NORTH AMERICA AND ONE OF ITS TRIBUTARIES (the Horseshoe and Reelfoot Lakes USED to be the main channel of the Mississippi before the New Madrid mega-swarm in 1811 and 1812) and were so severe that people could not judge lines of SIGHT.

In one of the few 9.0+ events we've had in post-Richter Scale history (the Great Alaska Quake of 1964) you didn't just have chunks of land being washed away or launched into the ocean--you also had massive liquefaction, and massive movement on the fault line itself (there are pics and videos of Anchorage that show buildings being literally uplifted ten feet--or dropped ten feet--just from the quake effects themselves).  The one part of the US that is considered the most vulnerable to a future megaquake of this sort (the Pacific Coast region including Seattle and the US-based suburbs of Vancouver such as Bellingham) also has additional hazards likely to be triggered when the Cascadia subduction zone blows, including fairly massive liquefaction of soil in Seattle and potential triggering of the "Three Sisters" (a series of active volcanoes in the Pacific Coast including Mt. Ranier and Mt. St. Helens) and the attendant lahar and pyroclastic flow risks from the volcanoes waking up.

And yes, there's a reason I harp on that "liquefaction" thing--THAT's what tends to wreck buildings and get people killed in earthquakes.  Liquefaction is basically when an earthquake shakes up an area with a vulnerable soil system (karst does this, landfill in harbor areas which has been built on is also pretty damn infamous for this) and mixes soil in---and the shaking plus soil plus water basically turns the entire farking mess into jelly that is literally made of quicksand and quickmud.  We may have come pretty far in the engineering sciences, but we haven't really figured out a good way to stop soil from turning into quickmud during an earthquake, and some of the more dangerous fault zones in the US (Wabash, New Madrid, and Cascadia) have a LOT of areas that WILL very farking much turn to quickmud and wreck the everloving shiat out of anything atop them that doesn't give.

(And yes, your dome-homes would actually be BAD in such a situation--the very thing that makes them stand up to a Category 5 hurricane (for which they are admittedly good for) would make them very vulnerable in a quake zone where liquefaction occurs.)

Wildfires: You're probably thinking of wildfires of the sort common in the West (which have resulted from years of detritus left from a less enlightened era where the Forest Service did not realise the forest ecosystems were actually fire-dependent and thus tried to snuff every fire out)...however, a number of wildfires (particularly out East and in the Plains states) are NOT in fact related at all to poor forest service management and fire-dependent ecosystems.  In Appalachia, wildfires tend to break out in drought years and can be surprisingly devastating; in places like Oklahoma and Nebraska and Texas, wildfires are less forest fires and more commonly massive grassfires that can threaten homes.  (And I REALLY don't think people will go along with "Don't plant grass in your yard", especially in states like Texas.)

Whilst the "keep a firebreak" is generally a good idea (especially so in the West), it's not the entire story.

(And actually, there's even an ancedote related to Things Falling From The Sky in this with wildfires.  The most massive wildfire in recorded history happened in the fall of 1871, where a goodly portion of Michigan was on fire along with parts of Wisconsin and Illinois (in fact, there has been some recent speculation that the Great Chicago Fire was in fact an extension of the same massive conflagration that also included the Great Peshtigo Fire and the Great Michigan Fire which also occurred around the same period--yes, you're reading this right...there is a non-negligible chance that Chicago burned down in a small extension of a massive wildfire covering three states).  One of the more interesting proposed causes of the massive wildfire is speculation a methane-rich comet fragment may have struck (more likely, however, is the fact that the whole Lake Michigan and Lake Superior region was having a horrid drought at the time and lake-effect winds sparked one of the smaller fires up to a hellish conflagration--basically the same thing that results in Chaparral winds triggering wildfire flares in California, though the ecosystem there is far more fire-dependent).)
2013-05-21 05:03:48 PM
3 votes:

TanSau: Medic Zero: yadda yadda yadda Confabulat: TanSau:

As long as we are dreaming about remaking everything, why the hell don't we move all the powerlines and other infrastructure that is up on poles underground? Then we wouldn't have to restring (& repole) all that shiat every time this happens or there is a big wind or ice storm.

This has been suggested several times, and in many cases, such as certain places in South Florida (yes, they actually got SOMETHING right), have routed power underground.

I also find it amusing how my comments seem to bring out all of the meteorological, geological, and aerodynamic experts showing that NOTHING can survive the CAT5, F5, 9.0 EARTHA-FIRE-CANE concrete liquefying  Zombie Apocalypse.

ok, I get it, we're ALL going to die.

Therefore, all of you who have taken a tornado in the ass and tossed the salad of hurricane Sally, James, Butch and know better than the experts, I leave you the following:

Please build your mobile home in OK/TX/KS, your summer home on a cliff in California, and a time share in Nawlins, because if you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.


Dear DerpTau:

I invite you to find somewhere in North America--nay, on the whole happy waterlogged bit of rock and organic material we call Earth--somewhere that is safe from a natural disaster that is capable of destroying even well-built construction.

Difficulty in this--there really ARE a lot of ways things can go sideways thanks to Mother Nature (whom at times can be a real motherfarker):

1) There really are a surprising number of cracks in the ground that move, a lot of times in places you don't expect them (one of the more dangerous regions in the US for earthquakes is the Mississippi River basin, thanks to a failed attempt by North America to split itself into two continents right around the Ediacaran era; even worse, we know rather less about how seismic systems work in failed rift zones than we do in more traditional seismic zones like subduction faults (Cascadia, Fukushima, et al) or strike-slip faults (pretty much the entire farking state of California below Sacramento or so--basically Baja California is trying very, very hard to become North America's own Madagascar).

Oh, and for bonus fun--there is apparently a known fault line that runs right under Manhattan which is expected to wreck a good part of New York City when it goes, and there are a lot of fault lines in the East Coast (remnants from the formation of the Appalachian Mountains) that even compared to the Mississippi Valley Rift Zone are very poorly documented--some are considered to potentially be as risky, but we know very little about these.  (We pretty much found ONE of these fault systems when it damn near took out the Washington Monument a year or three back.)

2) There are a lot of holes that tend to spew lava unexpectedly (some of which don't even look like what one would think of as a volcano--pretty much all of Yellowstone National Park is a massive dormant supervolcano that is a wee bit overdue for its next eruption) and the really big superheated-molten-rock-spewing-holes can affect things pretty damn far away (explosive volcanoes like (INSERT UNPRONOUNCEABLE-BY-NON-VIKINGS ICELANDIC VOLCANOES HERE) and Mt. Pinatubo can fark up weather, big volcanic booms like Krakatoa and Mt. Tambora can pretty much wipe out growing seasons, and...well...the last time that Yellowstone blew its load there was foot-deep ash in North America just about to the Mississippi River and it did cause an Honest-To-Ithaqua Ice Age).

Oh, and even if the volcano doesn't wreck your home with (say) the supersonic cloud of toxic gas and burning rock dust (pyroclastic flows) or the huge flood of quickmud made out of essentially CEMENT when it flash-melts the glacier on top of the volcano (lahars--this is one of the real killers in volcanoes, and why Portland is nicely farked when Mt. Ranier goes) just the ash is more than capable of collapsing buildings.   Mt. St. Helens was a little volcanic boom and there were still homes some 200 miles away that had collapsed roofs from its ash.

3) About the only ocean that DIDN'T get hurricane-like storms until recently was the South Atlantic, and thanks to global climate change we're even starting to get hurricanes in Brazil (which is goddamned astonishing in its own way that they're now common enough they've had to come up with a formal naming system for South Atlantic hurricanes--up until the early 90s, hurricane-like storms in the Mediterranean and the Great Lakes were actually more common (yes, there are storms that have formed that would be classified as hurricanes or at the very least as subtropical storms that have formed in both big bodies of water).  Hurricanes also have a tendency to actually keep themselves at hurricane strength fairly well inland (quite away from the beach)--some of the worse weather the UK gets is from hurricanes from the Atlantic Coast hitting, and I personally had LOTS of fun with Hurricane Ivan (which actually kept its hurricane strength WELL up into Kentucky--farker knocked my power out for two weeks).

4) Big Snow, much like Big Volcanic Earth Hershey-Squirts, can ALSO knock down roofs and such.  Doubly so if instead of Big Snow it becomes Big Ice, which tends to be heavier and a lot harder to remove.  (Yes, in our last ice-storm from hell, people actually lost roofs over it...because the weight of the ice caused even new roofs to collapse.  I will note that there WERE areas that received well over two inches of ice, and that much ice on a roof's full surface is HEAVY.)

5) We are getting pretty damn good at predicting weather, but we are not quite good enough to predict where a bit of whirlydoom will hit less than about thirty minutes in advance (the mere fact we can issue "enhanced risk" tornado watches and GIVE the thirty minutes warning is nothing short of spectacular--tornadoes are pretty much THE prototypical example of what happens when a chaotic system goes into a runaway condition for a bit).  If we were to abandon every state where there is a higher-than-usual risk of severe wind damage (including not just tornadoes but derechos--"straight line" wind damage that can be every bit as powerful as a category 5 hurricane or EF3 tornado at its worst) the only places people would be able to live would be along the West Coast (where there's an extreme risk of volcanism and fault lines) or the East Coast (which is...also...at risk of hurricane winds, flooding, severe winter storms, and fault systems that are even more poorly documented than the Wabash and New Madrid faultlines and potentially just as risky).

I'm not kidding on the "you'd have to abandon pretty much everywhere in North America where we can grow food", either.  Here is a map of major tornadogenesis in the US:

upload.wikimedia.org

And here is a map of four of the five commonly recognised Tornado Alleys (the fifth is basically the entire state of Florida):


(Yes, this is where most of the food that's grown in the US comes from that doesn't come from California or Florida.  Except that Florida is a tornadogenic and hurricane-prone region, and California is fault-ridden and has the occasional dormant and semidormant volcano.  Good luck trying to move everyone to Arizona or Alaska--wait, nope, Alaska is out too because they have many, many versions of the Cascadia fault zone.)

6) Oh, one thing I also didn't mention--floods.  You hinted at this with New Orleans, but a lot of areas do get floods, and sometimes in very surprising areas...Arizona tends to get the shiat flooded out of it during the times it DOES get rain and it's not damn near the hottest spot on the planet.  Lots of areas that aren't within the 100-year flood plain can flood.  There's even a human-made reason why stuff will flood--humans have learned from Beaver how to make dams to keep water around during droughts, and sometimes those dams will either break (either from age, bad construction, or--ironically--a shiatload of water from the sky) or will overflow...thus resulting in a shiat-ton of water exerting a shiat-ton of force to scour the shiat out of anything in its way.

(And not exaggerating on that, either.  A lot of how the Colorado River has a lot of canyons--most famously the Grand Canyon but also the Black Canyon of the Gunnison--is because it regularly has flooded through most of its geologic history, and a fair amount of the canyon-building did happen when a glacial lake (which formerly covered most of the state of Utah) broke.  Hell, the floods (from what were essentially river tsunamis) during the Three Months of Hell in New Madrid in 1811 and 1812 managed to change the course of the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers as well (to the point you have little bits of interesting irregularities in crossing the Ohio starting from about Henderson south--like little bits of land before you hit the river proper that are in the "wrong state" because they did the "this is where Indiana is" survey based on the OLD pre-1812 course of the Ohio).)

What is more practical, IMHO...you should try to make a home storm-ready, yes, but this includes not only stuff like "not building in a 100-year flood plain" and "use hurricane straps in construction if you live in a Force IV wind field" but also "Here's what to do when Shiat Gets Real and Mother Nature Decides To Be A Motherfarker".
2013-05-21 10:22:42 AM
3 votes:

mrshowrules: muck4doo: Good speech by Obama.

He always gets it right.


I'm as Conservative as it gets, but I agree. He gets it right in times of disaster. Reagan was also pretty good at that. Both have/had the power to bring a Nation up when things have gone wrong. Both Bush's and Clinton could also do that at times, but not with the same mastery Reagan and Obama do/did. Carter would just scare me. I have confidence Obama will take care of this situation the best he can as more info comes in.
2013-05-21 06:38:58 AM
3 votes:

nukeim: Captain Swoop: Shadow Blasko: nukeim: Captain Swoop: OK City scanners reporting more nasty weather imminent.....

Eh...This one aint gonna do squat.

It's gonna make rescue work wet and miserable, not to mention limiting light.

Exactly. The Command Post is calling in most units now who could be searching for survivors instead, so 'ain't gonna do squat' might matter a bit to somebody trapped under rubble.

I bet not a single person, or unit, stops searching...Not without a warm body taking their place anyway. Folks here don't operate like that.

*shrugs*

I just meant that it's not going to tear shiat up. No reason to get pissy.


Folks nowhere operate like that.  No one area holds the monopoly on compassion.

Can't stand the farking platitudes after every disaster.  Oklahoma City isn't any more special than Boston is gritty or New York is resilient or farkng Bangladesh.  Everyone helps out and the somehow finds a way to go on with their lives.
2013-05-21 01:21:35 AM
3 votes:
i.imgur.com

Not really gory, but there is some blood. If it's too much for a mod someone else can convert it to link. I'd understand.

Things can get crazy fast. Everyone should take a moment to appreciate the relative order in their lives. And of course help if you can. So many people will need it in the coming weeks.
2013-05-21 12:51:03 AM
3 votes:
i.imgur.com
2013-05-21 12:38:58 AM
3 votes:

Confabulat: I just woke up. Tornadoes, huh.


Good god y'all!

What are they good for?
2013-05-21 05:06:59 PM
2 votes:
Aaaaand since Fark didn't like my second pic, here's another pic of four of the five recognised Tornado Alleys:

edn-systems.com

Again...unless you live in California (where you get to worry about wildfires and earthquakes and possibly even supervolcano eruptions--hi, Lake Mammoth!) good luck living anywhere that ISN'T in a Tornado Alley if you actually, you know, like to make food happen and not have the US relying on donations from UNICEF.
2013-05-21 03:16:06 PM
2 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: Actually, dear, I think you might be the new and naive one here:

(Brings it hard)

Man, I have the biggest weather/disaster/nerd brocrush on your brain right now.. You have no idea.
2013-05-21 01:11:29 PM
2 votes:

TanSau: Would I build in an area known for storm surge, or on a flood plane? Goodness no.
That would be idiotic.

Having experienced such an event, you'd think that you would respect nature and build in a location and a way to prevent common and predictable home destruction.

An ounce of prevention....


As someone who lives in a coastal town, whose husband is contracted to be here for another 3 years because  people here need doctors and are short on them, where every part of town is susceptible to the possibility of a storm surge, I hope you never have to find out how idiotic your statement really is.

I know I've singled you out, but the incessant posts in all three threads that are accusatory of people for being stupid to not be prepared enough for disaster is ignorant and infuriating on an aneurism-inducing level. No one, no matter where they live or what they do to prepare is safe from disaster. Enough with the blame game. This is a time for empathy of those who have lost everything through no fault of their own, and nothing else.
2013-05-21 12:03:11 PM
2 votes:
Hey Farkers - I've been following these threads since yesterday and want to say thanks; this place is awesome for breaking news links, insight from locals being affected, actual education around issues contributing to what's happening, and the huge majority of the community coming together in compassion. Shadow Blasko and others - glad you're here and thanks for the helpful info.

My link contribution: www.tornadopaths.org; found it yesterday, it maps out everywhere in the US that's seen a tornado in the past 48 hrs; you can search for zip codes and 'today in history;' as far as I can make out, the yellow icons are ones that actually touched down, and white is either that or less severe (Shadow, you know?).

Heart goes out to all in the storm's path, and impressed as hell as always with how people come together after disaster.
2013-05-21 10:50:56 AM
2 votes:

TanSau: It's about being PREPARED for the disasters in your area.


I'm a renter. I don't own a house. Do I have to rent a hobbit home before you care if I die? Because to be honest, I don't care if you care at all, you sound like a really dumb person.
2013-05-21 10:09:33 AM
2 votes:

TanSau: Let's be honest here.

If you live in a tornado or hurricane prone area, and don't have a home/school constructed like this:

http://www.monolithic.com/

Then I have no sympathy for you.


That's hilarious. I suppose the entire Eastern coast of the USA needs to adopt your little hobbit homes before you are willing to shed a tear if they die. You are a very wise person, said no one ever.
2013-05-21 09:38:02 AM
2 votes:
They just said on NPR that the death count has been revised down to 24.
2013-05-21 09:10:03 AM
2 votes:
CNN just said that the picture of the "couple" walking down the street where the man is holding the girl and the woman has the black eye holding another girls hand isn't parents but in fact teachers.  I've heard a few stories of hero teachers coming from this.  When this is all said and done we Farkers need to make our way down to OK and buy a few rounds....
2013-05-21 07:59:31 AM
2 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Shadow Blasko: Holy
farking
shiat

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/oklahoma-gop-sen-tom-cobu r n-will-seek-to?ref=fpb

how about we offset it by cutting his pay,retirement and any benefits he might be receiving?
bastard was probably the leaker in the AP scandal too.


Simple; cut other Federal aid that Oklahoma gets. Reduce military spending at bases, Federal highway money, whatever, if Coburn and Inhofe want to offset any disaster spending. Let's see how fast they change their tune then.
2013-05-21 06:56:07 AM
2 votes:

esteban9: Bontesla: Shadow Blasko: Radar indicated tornado on the ground, hendricks county Indiana... headed towards (I can't believe I have to type this) THE SPEEDWAY.

We may need a thread to specifically address this day of hell - TWC says to be prepared for the same.

Tornadic outbreaks typically occur over more than one day, in different areas of the country.


This is the sequel to yesterday's activity. May be useful for Farkers in the path to check in.
2013-05-21 06:47:07 AM
2 votes:

Bendal: Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: With enough concrete

The issue is not the wind speed, but what's in the wind. Concrete is actually fairly brittle, if you were to take a chunk of structural concrete and throw it on the ground you'd get it to at least produce a few chips, and depending on the shape and just how hard you threw it, it could actually shatter. Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.

Who builds out of just concrete? It needs steel reinforcement inside it.

Exactly, but building 2' thick reinforced concrete walls and a steel roof anchored to the walls themselves for each school, and make it big enough for every student and faculty to take shelter in? The cost would be astronomical. Even building a steel reinforced concrete shelter above ground for a house can cost $10,000 easy, and that would just be for 3-4 people to take shelter in. The reports I heard yesterday indicated the school was made of concrete blocks; that's probably one of the worst materials for tornado resistance; the walls aren't very strong laterally, and the winds can easily push them over even with the rebar added to the walls every 3rd course of blocks or so. One option would be to fill the voids in certain concrete block walls with cement, making it more solid and resistant to overturning, and then reinforce the roof as well such as over the hallway. The rest of the building may collapse, but hopefully the interior portion would remain intact.

Not sure that a strong EF4 or EF5 tornado can realistically have a big shelter above ground designed against them, though.


Once somehow our nation was able to afford to build how many missile silos? The money is there somewhere. Or at least it used to be until CEO's started making 400 times what workers do and not paying taxes on any of it.
2013-05-21 05:11:41 AM
2 votes:

WhyteRaven74: Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.


When you hit the outside of a structure hard, the shock wave can knock bits of the inside ("spalling") which cause damage as they fly around. This is how most anti-tank missiles work; they don;t try to get through the armour, but instead blow chunks off the inside to bounce unhealthily around the occupants.
2013-05-21 05:07:39 AM
2 votes:

Medic Zero: With enough concrete


The issue is not the wind speed, but what's in the wind. Concrete is actually fairly brittle, if you were to take a chunk of structural concrete and throw it on the ground you'd get it to at least produce a few chips, and depending on the shape and just how hard you threw it, it could actually shatter. Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.
2013-05-21 01:53:14 AM
2 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: FunkOut: muck4doo: mikaloyd: Cytokine Storm: mikaloyd: thread needs a badge

No it doesn't.

might could use one

Sports, funny stories, epic TF discussions get Badges. Not stories like this.

This thread needs warm cookies.

Yes, to warm cookies : )
/Truthfully I need more booze
//But warm cookies would do

cookie-dough vodak?

Yes to cookie-dough vodak, gimme, gimme .

[ameliael.files.wordpress.com image 400x600]

OMG, want...


That stuff just sounds like the worst vomit waiting to happen invented by humans since the advent of Rumple Minze.
2013-05-21 01:41:41 AM
2 votes:
Alright who forgot to click disable disasters?
2013-05-21 01:21:46 AM
2 votes:

ladyfortuna: I'm feeling a bit like I did on 9/11


abcnews.go.com
Yep.
2013-05-21 01:21:36 AM
2 votes:
We simply cannot always be prepared for every eventuality. Sometimes we have to pick our priorities - as households, cities and counties - to do the best we can within our means every day.

No matter what we do, disasters will happen and our hearts will hurt as they do today. But then neighbor stands by neighbor and helps to lift the beam, offer the shoulder and blanket, cry together and begin again.

Simple, basic values - true hearts and steadfast people - working with the grime rolling down their faces in the rivulets of their tears. There is no blame to lay now, just work to be done and grieving hearts to comfort.

Thank you, those who share what you can, even if it is just solidarity of good thoughts and empathy.
2013-05-21 01:18:32 AM
2 votes:
I'd also like to add - I'm a father of a daughter in 2nd grade. Last year she had to shelter in place in her school during the April 2012 outbreak and tornado in Arlington,Tx which passed within about 3/4 mile from her school - not to mention heading DIRECTLY for the school her mom works at and her grandfather's house though it died shortly before it hit them.

Frankly, that was nerve-wracking enough. I can't even fathom what these parents are going through seeing  pictures of their kids' school flattened and having to sit and wait for some word as to whether or not their child has survived. I would be an absolute emotional wreck. :(
2013-05-21 01:18:12 AM
2 votes:

mikaloyd: thread needs a badge


No it doesn't.
2013-05-21 01:14:28 AM
2 votes:

dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.


Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.
2013-05-21 01:03:08 AM
2 votes:
I admit I'm a weather geek. I just got home and signed into my weather chat. We watched this little cell. Then BOOM. As a weather geek I have never seen a radar signature like that. And then to watch it via helicopter. Every local OK TV feed I watched issued the most dire warnings I've ever heard. Still really hard to see the damage and devastation. They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

I am just dumbstruck at the level of damage. And my heart aches. While watching it unfold my heart was in a knot and goosebumps to beat all goosebumps. But not a darned thing I could do.

So I will donate to locally appropriate charities. Those that can make the most difference to the 10,000 plus that now have no homes. Please do the same.
2013-05-21 12:45:49 AM
2 votes:
Unconfirmed update from the ME's office for Oklahoma that there are 51 confirmed dead and they are expecting 40 more with the majority believed to be children
2013-05-21 12:45:31 AM
2 votes:
Oh great, TWC just said to expect a 50% chance of seeing a tornado withing 25 miles of any particular spot along a pretty big swath of TX/AR/OK/LA - with DFW right in the meat of it. I guess I'll have to pay attention to the weather tomorrow.
2013-05-22 12:04:45 AM
1 votes:
In parts of Oklahoma that are the clay covered rock, if you dig down and cut into the rock or even attach something to it, you have to clear the clay away or else the next time it moves, it will shear your structure off the rock or snap it cleanly.  A cubic yard of water weights about a ton, a cubic meter of clay weighs 2 to 3 times that.  Small earthquakes (like the little 2.3 that hit OKC the several times in the last month and the same day) can cause 5000 psi concrete to sheer if it is not isolated enough from the clay.  The clay may not look like it moves much but it does act like a fluid even when it is dry.

A bit of 2x4 in flight at speeds of say around 200 mph can deliver its kinetic energy at about 2000 psi before it starts to disintegrate. Most concrete is often specced at 1500 psi which will trun int airborne rock if a 2x4 hits it longwise.

Schools in the area used to have halls that were double cinder block with reinforcement.  There seems to be some indications that cinder block that is protected by a nylon mesh can work well with impact from weather related projectiles as reduces the number of broken off pieces that also start to fly.  It is a cheaper form of the Kevlar / concrete armoured structures used by militaries around the world.
2013-05-21 07:30:13 PM
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: Aaaaand since Fark didn't like my second pic, here's another pic of four of the five recognised Tornado Alleys:

[edn-systems.com image 450x450]

Again...unless you live in California (where you get to worry about wildfires and earthquakes and possibly even supervolcano eruptions--hi, Lake Mammoth!) good luck living anywhere that ISN'T in a Tornado Alley if you actually, you know, like to make food happen and not have the US relying on donations from UNICEF.


I wonder how many of those Carolina Alley tornadoes are spawned-off of hurricanes.
2013-05-21 06:06:02 PM
1 votes:

Medic Zero: 4NTLRZ:

I've had the misfortune of experiencing three tornadic episodes in my life, and while they were nothing near what happened yesterday, rest assured that each one was a "loss of bowel control" event. Trust me, you really don't want to look that beast in the eye - even if it's a measley little EF-1.

I think the "meteorological, geological, and aerodynamic expert" Farkers are trying to say that in a natural disaster of the magnitude that we saw yesterday in Moore, you're going to need a lot of luck to survive. Living/sheltering in a geodesic dome doesn't necessarily increase your odds of a favorable outcome when winds are in excess of 200 mph and the storm moves so slowly that it literally chews up everything in its path and tosses the remains for miles upon miles. The only sure-fire waay to ensure survival is to flee the area PRONTO, or get underground.

How often are they slow moving F5's?


I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I'd guess that those more powerful EF-4 & EF-5s are far less common - thank goodness. Again, that's pure speculation.

Can't we build for the more common F3's and below and realize that bigger than that is going to probably overmatch it?

Provided homeowners have the means to do so, that seems like a reasonable idea. However, having experienced them first-hand and having lived in "Tornado Alley" my entire life, the only place I feel safe is either A) miles away, or B) underground - and even being below ground is scarry as all get-out!

There's also problems in certain areas of "Tornado Alley" where basement construction is concerned. In many areas of the Texas Hill Country - high water table issues aside - you have very deep bedrock that either makes a basement cost prohibitive or nearly impossible to dig through and build a home on.

This is what we do for earthquakes, virtually nothing is made to stand against an 8 or 9, IIRC 6 used to be the standard, but I think in some places it's been bumped up to 7. It sounds like everyone is argueing against doing anything at all because F5's and ricther 9's happen.

I think it's a matter of how much risk an individual is willing to take & what one can afford, really. Personally, I'd love to be able to have a basement in my home (Mrs. 4NTLRZ comes from the Chicago area where they're common & has fond childhood memories of their basement/play room), but it's just not possible. Here in North Texas, we have this crappy clay soil that constantly shifts and is the reason I've been told that basements just aren't a viable option - unless you're down with spending thousands annually to have your foundation repaired.
2013-05-21 05:40:26 PM
1 votes:

jfarkinB: Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.

Sump pumps usually run on electrical power, which frequently fails during violent storms.

Make your argument to the parents of the kids who farking drowned in their school's farking basement.


Not sure why one is necessarily related to the other, but if you're putting in a sump in a new basement in a new house in the last several decades a backup (marine battery backup) is a fairly standard/cheap feature.  The house I have was built in '82 and had one standard, as do most other constructions in that timeframe and after. Someone else I know had their house built in the '60s and they were told that they should have one and they put one in.  Just make sure the battery is fresh, activate it once a year.  When we've had to shelter in place we do so in the bathroom underneath the stairs, 5 feet from the sump.  The only time it hasn't worked was when they were putting in the geothermal heat pump and disconnected both the backup and primary and neglected to reconnect them when they were done.

As to the situation in the basement of that school:  Unless you have more information about what went down there than the rest of us, conflating that with what residents could have done on their own property, or using it as proof that sump pumps wouldn't have worked in residential basements without being able to say how that basement was equipped, why they chose the basement, why that part of the basement etc, is just sloppy argumentation.  Trying to prove your point off the backs of 7 dead kids without knowing what the situation down there was, is talking out your ass, and likely to make you look like one.
2013-05-21 05:26:59 PM
1 votes:
Thank you great porn dragon

For the asshat/trolls saying that say people should build storm proof/weather proof/natural disaster proof homes and schools or not live in these areas shiat happens no matter where you live shiat happens get over it stop blaming everyone for what cannot be controlled

Can we all now concentrate on helping the people who have lost their homes livelihoods and all their worldly possessions and show these people that we do have common decency and respect for the fact people are dead children are dead and people are missing some may have life long injuries they may never recover from

Or are all the asshat/trolls going to start the "truther" bs and start claiming that this was all staged
2013-05-21 04:19:40 PM
1 votes:

TanSau: Medic Zero: yadda yadda yadda Confabulat: TanSau:

As long as we are dreaming about remaking everything, why the hell don't we move all the powerlines and other infrastructure that is up on poles underground? Then we wouldn't have to restring (& repole) all that shiat every time this happens or there is a big wind or ice storm.

This has been suggested several times, and in many cases, such as certain places in South Florida (yes, they actually got SOMETHING right), have routed power underground.

I also find it amusing how my comments seem to bring out all of the meteorological, geological, and aerodynamic experts showing that NOTHING can survive the CAT5, F5, 9.0 EARTHA-FIRE-CANE concrete liquefying  Zombie Apocalypse.

ok, I get it, we're ALL going to die.

Therefore, all of you who have taken a tornado in the ass and tossed the salad of hurricane Sally, James, Butch and know better than the experts, I leave you the following:

Please build your mobile home in OK/TX/KS, your summer home on a cliff in California, and a time share in Nawlins, because if you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.


I've had the misfortune of experiencing three tornadic episodes in my life, and while they were nothing near what happened yesterday, rest assured that each one was a "loss of bowel control" event. Trust me, you really don't want to look that beast in the eye - even if it's a measley little EF-1.

I think the "meteorological, geological, and aerodynamic expert" Farkers are trying to say that in a natural disaster of the magnitude that we saw yesterday in Moore, you're going to need a lot of luck to survive. Living/sheltering in a geodesic dome doesn't necessarily increase your odds of a favorable outcome when winds are in excess of 200 mph and the storm moves so slowly that it literally chews up everything in its path and tosses the remains for miles upon miles. The only sure-fire way to ensure survival is to flee the area PRONTO, or get underground.

farm8.staticflickr.com
2013-05-21 04:10:05 PM
1 votes:
Moore Tornado upgraded to an EF5:

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NORMAN OK
250 PM CDT TUE MAY 21 2013

...NWS DAMAGE SURVEY FOR 5/20/2013 NEWCASTLE/MOORE TORNADO EVENT -
UPDATE 3...

...NWS DAMAGE SURVEY HAS NOW RATED THE NEWCASTLE/MOORE TORNADO AS EF5...

.OVERVIEW...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DISPATCHED FOUR DAMAGE SURVEY TEAMS TO
THE PATH OF THE NEWCASTLE/MOORE OK TORNADO. NEW STATEMENTS WILL BE
ISSUED THROUGHOUT THE DAY AS THESE TEAMS REPORT FINDINGS. THIS
INFORMATION REMAINS PRELIMINARY AND THE INFORMATION HERE COULD
CHANGE.

.NEWCASTLE/MOORE TORNADO

RATING: EF5
ESTIMATED PEAK WIND: 200-210 MPH
PATH LENGTH /STATUTE/: 17 MILES
PATH WIDTH /MAXIMUM/: 1.3 MILES
FATALITIES: N/A
INJURIES: N/A

START DATE: MAY 20 2013
START TIME: 2:45 PM CDT
START LOCATION: 4.4 W NEWCASTLE /GRADY COUNTY /OK
START LAT/LON: 35.2580 / -97.6775

END DATE: MAY 20 2013
END TIME: 3:35 PM CDT
END LOCATION: 4.8 E OF MOORE OK /CLEVELAND COUNTY /OK
END LAT/LON: 35.3409 / -97.4007

SURVEY SUMMARY: EXPERTS SURVEYING IN MOORE HAVE DETERMINED DAMAGE IS
EF5 WITH MAXIMUM WINDS OVER 200 MPH. FOUR SURVEY TEAMS CONTINUE TO
INSPECT DAMAGE FROM THIS LONG TRACK TORNADO. INITIAL DAMAGE WAS
FOUND AROUND 4.4 MILES WEST OF NEWCASTLE...SOUTH OF TECUMSEH ROAD
ALSO KNOWN AS NW 16TH STREET AND EAST LAKE ROAD. THE TORNADO TRACKED
NE TO THE INTERSTATE 44 BRIDGE OVER THE CANADIAN RIVER AND THEN TOOK
A MORE EASTWARD TRACK THROUGH MOORE. TORNADO DAMAGE ABRUPTLY ENDS
0.3 MILES EAST OF AIR DEPOT ROAD AND N OF SE 134TH ST.

INITIALLY PRODUCING EF0 AND EF1 DAMAGE THE STORM INTENSIFIED VERY
RAPIDLY IN 4 MILES OR AROUND 10 MINUTES PRODUCING EF4 DAMAGE BEFORE
REACHING INTERSTATE 44. NUMEROUS INDICATIONS OF EF4 DAMAGE WITH SOME
AREAS NOW DETERMINED AT EF5 DAMAGE...THE HIGHEST CATEGORY ON THE EF
SCALE...WITH OVER 200 MPH WINDS.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SUCH AS MAXIMUM PATH WIDTH WILL BE UPDATED
AS THE TEAMS COMPLETE THEIR SURVEYS.
2013-05-21 03:59:51 PM
1 votes:
I listened to the OK City Police on a scanner for a few hours just after it hit Moore and it was completely surreal.  They were running out of resources (cops, ambulances, fire, etc.) and surrounding communities were dispatching just about all they had.  Some of what I heard:
-  Military copters enroute for DB's (dead bodies) and survivors
-  We (a nearby city) are enroute with 50 cars (cops) and ambulances
-  The schools are gone
-  The hospital is gone
And there were gas leaks everywhere.  This was unreal.
2013-05-21 03:52:19 PM
1 votes:

bedtundy: 43 minutes of KFOR OKC Channel 4 coverage of Moore Tornado, for those interested.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga7niHGgSN4

They did an awesome job of getting the warnings out, and communicating with storm chasers.

Hope those in Southeastern OK, Central/Northeast TX, and other points in the midwest stay safe today.


Man, that was freaking incredible. Fantastic coordination of storm chasers, tweets, helicopters, meteorologists, police. No BS, just getting shiat done. This is how news should be, and I'm donating to their station as soon as I can get more info. Seriously, watch this video.
2013-05-21 03:51:50 PM
1 votes:
No matter what people do to prepare no matter how you build no one can guarantee what will work and what wont for a specific disaster

Can we lay off the blame game and concentrate on recovery and rebuilding lives

To all those who say just move dont live there dont build there did you ever consider that not everyone chooses where to live some people like military or religious workers or unemployed/poor cant say i wont live there it is dangerous people are assigned/stationed/ordered to be in that area
2013-05-21 03:22:56 PM
1 votes:

Medic Zero: TanSau: Confabulat: TanSau: Let's be honest here.

If you live in a tornado or hurricane prone area, and don't have a home/school constructed like this:

http://www.monolithic.com/

Then I have no sympathy for you.

That's hilarious. I suppose the entire Eastern coast of the USA needs to adopt your little hobbit homes before you are willing to shed a tear if they die. You are a very wise person, said no one ever.

Not my company.

and you're right, the entire east coast needs to have a strong infrastructure.

You'll be crying on the doorstep of those hobbit homes during/after a Cat 5 or F5

BTW, you're part of the problem.

As long as we are dreaming about remaking everything, why the hell don't we move all the powerlines and other infrastructure that is up on poles underground? Then we wouldn't have to restring (& repole) all that shiat every time this happens or there is a big wind or ice storm.


Now THAT is a fantastic idea. The neighborhood I just moved out of had underground utilities, and the ONLY time that area has lost power in the last 10 years was during the Hurricane Ike Wind Disaster. (And, well.. 3/4 of the state was out... so it was understandable)

Unfortunately, it is really only feasible to have underground utilities if they were in place when the area was built. Conversion is expensive.

Also, unfortunately, due to the speed that utilities need to be repaired and replaced during a disaster like this one, you need to be able to do it as fast as possible, and since it takes about 10x as long to do underground utilities (even longer if you have to map out existing underground service.. like water and gas) it is simply not feasible to "upgrade" after a disaster.
2013-05-21 03:16:50 PM
1 votes:

TanSau: Confabulat: TanSau: Let's be honest here.

If you live in a tornado or hurricane prone area, and don't have a home/school constructed like this:

http://www.monolithic.com/

Then I have no sympathy for you.

That's hilarious. I suppose the entire Eastern coast of the USA needs to adopt your little hobbit homes before you are willing to shed a tear if they die. You are a very wise person, said no one ever.

Not my company.

and you're right, the entire east coast needs to have a strong infrastructure.

You'll be crying on the doorstep of those hobbit homes during/after a Cat 5 or F5

BTW, you're part of the problem.


As long as we are dreaming about remaking everything, why the hell don't we move all the powerlines and other infrastructure that is up on poles underground? Then we wouldn't have to restring (& repole) all that shiat every time this happens or there is a big wind or ice storm.
2013-05-21 02:18:21 PM
1 votes:

megalynn44: PowerSlacker: megalynn44: I wish I had thought to share this link yesterday, it's always highly useful in weather situation.

http://hint.fm/wind/

North Texas really sucks today.

/awesome site

Yeah, the wind is getting very spinny west of Dallas.


[Deep breath]

Guys, I don't wanna rain on anyones parade here, but http://hint.fm/wind/ is not generated from actual surface readings... or any real-time readings at all.

It is based on a surface wind forecast map from the National Digital Forecast Database. It is not live. It's not even real readings. It's an (hour by hour) forecast weather map, turned into an art project.

It does not take into account individual storms (other than massive storms, like hurricanes or general low pressure areas). It's just a REALLY DAMN COOL artistic layer of a forecast map.

Please don't use it for anything other than "wow, thats cool"... and "it looks like it will be windy in our area, lets try to fly a kite"

/Nothing against them.. I really like it.. but it is not real time or actual observed winds.
2013-05-21 01:43:52 PM
1 votes:

TanSau: Having experienced such an event, you'd think that you would respect nature and build in a location and a way to prevent common and predictable home destruction.


I told you, I'm a renter. Do you think people who have leases deserve to die? Be honest now. You're pretty funny thinking you're smart while everyone with an IQ over 80 is laughing at you, so I'm curious to hear more of your delusional ravings that you consider "intelligence."

Do carry on.
2013-05-21 11:45:26 AM
1 votes:

Flab: Shadow Blasko: [i.imgur.com image 640x480]

Dear OKC/Moore

Who did you piss off?!? I mean REALLY?

/Image current as of 11:16 EDT

What's the difference between a diamond and a triangle, in that graph?


Box= Storm
Diamond = Heavy storm/Mesocyclonic Rotation
Purple V = Tornadic Vortex Signature (Not always a tornado, just .. enough warning signs to tip the system)
2013-05-21 11:45:24 AM
1 votes:

Flab: Shadow Blasko: [i.imgur.com image 640x480]

Dear OKC/Moore

Who did you piss off?!? I mean REALLY?

/Image current as of 11:16 EDT

What's the difference between a diamond and a triangle, in that graph?


Square is a hail core.  Diamond is a rotating mesocyclone.  Triangle is a radar indicated tornado vortex signature (not necessarily a tornado, but has the radar characteristics of one)
2013-05-21 11:16:31 AM
1 votes:
i.imgur.com

Dear OKC/Moore

Who did you piss off?!? I mean REALLY?

/Image current as of 11:16 EDT
2013-05-21 10:58:12 AM
1 votes:

RatOmeter: dave2198: Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.

Seriously? This has been answered about 500 times. The ground is incredibly hard in many parts of OK. It is cost prohibitive and/or impossible to build basements in many areas.

It's not just that it's hard.  Much of it is dense red clay which doesn't drain well at all.  It also expands and shrinks an amazing amount with changes in water content.  So not only do you have to worry about water/drainage, but also the hydraulic forces working to crush the structure and/or push it up out of the ground.  It is possible to make a basement in Oklahoma.  It's just not that practical for most.

What *is* practical and hard to excuse omitting:

[www.fraidyhole.com image 270x203]


*Ding ding ding*

We have a winner.

If you live in the Tornado Alley part of the Midwest... you need somewhere to go. It doesn't have to necessarily be a basement, but something subterranean is just common sense. The cost is minimal next to that of your life.
2013-05-21 10:55:54 AM
1 votes:

muck4doo: Flab: muck4doo: Flab: It was not meant to be a political jab.

Yes it was, and this isn't the time for that.

Not it wasn't.  You are seeing things that aren't there.  I am well aware that this isn't the time for politics-tab antics.

I'll take your word for it.


lets move on people
2013-05-21 10:55:49 AM
1 votes:

Flab: dave2198: The ground is incredibly hard in many parts of OK.

1. Dig until you hit bedrock.
2. Pour reinforced concrete foundation.
3. Pack dirt around it to make it look like a basement.

Just like we do up here in Kanukistan.  My basement floor is probably not more than 2' lower than the street.

BillTheCat: Since you dont have to have your utilities so deep, theres no need for a basement, you can just build a house on a slab.  Saves $10-20,000 on the construction cost of a single family home.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd prefer spending the extra 10 grand to have a saferoom, rather than having familiy members decapitated by flying 2x4s and appliances.


Would you like to take a guess at how far you can dig in OK before hitting bedrock?
2013-05-21 10:53:53 AM
1 votes:

mrshowrules: jfarkinB: Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.

Sump pumps usually run on electrical power, which frequently fails during violent storms.

Make your argument to the parents of the kids who farking drowned in their school's farking basement.

Plus, if the main water supply into a basement is busted you are farked even if you have electricity because no sump pump works that fast.


Hell - you don't even need a water supply in the basement. A terriential downpour will find any holes you've missed. Eventually that water fills.

I remember being knee deep in a basement full of water during a tornado warning in Ohio. The sump pump couldn't work fast enough. Water was pouring in through the cellar doors (the slanted doors). Apparently the seal on our basement entry door was not entirely watertight. It was terrifying.
2013-05-21 10:46:46 AM
1 votes:

jfarkinB: Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.

Sump pumps usually run on electrical power, which frequently fails during violent storms.

Make your argument to the parents of the kids who farking drowned in their school's farking basement.


Plus, if the main water supply into a basement is busted you are farked even if you have electricity because no sump pump works that fast.
2013-05-21 10:33:05 AM
1 votes:

Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.


Sump pumps usually run on electrical power, which frequently fails during violent storms.

Make your argument to the parents of the kids who farking drowned in their school's farking basement.
2013-05-21 10:30:52 AM
1 votes:

Flab: The thing that seriously bugs me about these tornades is: why doesn't anyone in Tornado Alley have basements?

I don't buy the "water-table's too high" argument.  Buy a freaking sump pump, if you're afraid of water seeping in.


Seeing as someone posted that a tornado bunker is only about $3K, the real question is why they don't have those.  I assume a basement must cost more than $30K to have.  The building code should require a tornado shelter within a 100 yards of any primary residence.
2013-05-21 10:26:07 AM
1 votes:

Flab: mrshowrules: muck4doo: Good speech by Obama.

He His speechwriter always gets it right.

But, yeah.  Good speech.


I'm sure he is the first President to have others write speeches for him ever, Right?

Look, it's not just the words, but how someone delivers it. Obama is good at it. Give credit where it is due.

/Not answering anything more on this. Feels like the politics tab now.
2013-05-21 10:25:20 AM
1 votes:

PacificaFitz: wxboy: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/oklahoma-medical-examiners-office-r e vises-death-toll-down-to-24-including-7-children.php

Looks like it was revised down from 51 to 24, and down to 7 kids from 20.

some people may have been counted more than once?  If you have 24 bodies that means your in a circular room counting the bodies and just keep going around and around?  WTF?


Or, you know, the bodies weren't all whole...
2013-05-21 09:53:38 AM
1 votes:

PacificaFitz: wxboy: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/oklahoma-medical-examiners-office-r e vises-death-toll-down-to-24-including-7-children.php

Looks like it was revised down from 51 to 24, and down to 7 kids from 20.

some people may have been counted more than once?  If you have 24 bodies that means your in a circular room counting the bodies and just keep going around and around?  WTF?


Must have combined a field count with a count to where they transported the bodies.  Something like that but that is a terrible mistake to make.
2013-05-21 09:31:36 AM
1 votes:

LasersHurt: Bontesla: It's days like this that I realize living in a ranch style home is not wise in my area.

My suggestion: partially-buried hobbit house.


I've always wanted to live in one - or a cave. There was a House Hunters International episode about a couple that wanted to buy a home in a cave. I think it was in France. They spent less than 200k USD.
2013-05-21 09:25:16 AM
1 votes:

LasersHurt: Bontesla: It's days like this that I realize living in a ranch style home is not wise in my area.

My suggestion: partially-buried hobbit house.


Under Tulsa is a huge system of caverns dug out by coal mining.  I say we kick the miners out and move everyone into that.
2013-05-21 09:19:57 AM
1 votes:

Bontesla: It's days like this that I realize living in a ranch style home is not wise in my area.


My suggestion: partially-buried hobbit house.
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 09:11:38 AM
1 votes:

xria: The thing I was wondering is that there was a spot where the two tracks they were showing crossed each other, but I couldn't tell from the map whether it was a bunch of fields outside the suburbs still, or whether some people might have got hit in both 99 and now 13.


I believe that CNN talked about a church this morning that got hit in both storms...
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 08:49:50 AM
1 votes:

Mr_H: I live in mid Michigan and we don't really have tornadoes here. Grew up in Iowa, saw a couple F3s and F4s myself.  Glad I don't have to deal with them as much anymore...but I did just realize there's not really a 'safe' place in my house right now. Unlikely I'd need one, but still...

/should research something someday


I'm not sure there was safe place for this one.  God was playing dice... life and death was just chance.
2013-05-21 08:37:00 AM
1 votes:

muck4doo: Do they get them in Europe?


No, there are really only very few places on Earth that have the conditions to create something like this. They have no equivalent in Europe.
2013-05-21 08:30:04 AM
1 votes:

italie: SDRR: Medic Zero: evilsofa: Medic Zero: Who builds out of just concrete? It needs steel reinforcement inside it.

Oh, you want to build homes in Oklahoma with ICF walls instead of 2x6 frame?  Just increase the costs of your exterior walls by 2 or 3 times.  Say your original exterior wall cost was $6,000, now it's $20,000.

No problem.  So simple!  Right, guys?

I never said it was simple or cheap.

That's the same BS we heard after Andrew hit Homestead. Funny, all the homes were rebuilt, but to an entirely new standard. New rules were also put into place to make sure structures in a storm surge zone were built at least 6' - 9' off the ground.

I don't understand how you would want to live in a completely wood framed house where tornadoes are a possibility. At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks. But that's just me.

Did you happen to see the pictures of the bowling ally or the school? I seem to remember a Home Depot in Joplin suffering a similar fate.

Concrete does not necessarily mean safe.


One thing I learned from Joplin is that those big-box buildings made of vertical concrete slabs with a steel-frame roof can turn into utter deathtraps in a violent tornado. (Think Home Depot/Lowe's, Costco/Sam's Club, etc etc.) Those basically rely on the roof to keep the integrity of the structure intact. Which is all well and good, until an F4/F5 rips off the roof, and suddenly there's nothing helping to hold up those vertical slabs.

There were, as I recall, 6 or 8 people who died in the Joplin Home Depot because they had run in from the parking lot for shelter, only to be crushed when the roof disappeared and those concrete wall slabs tipped over on them.
2013-05-21 08:24:34 AM
1 votes:

jimmyjackfunk: reillan: SlothB77: A family of four died hiding in a freezer? Dont take your tornado safety advice from indiana jones movies.

nice.  It was a walk-in freezer, and normally those things survive tornadoes.  this is not a normal tornado.

I keep mentioning the one in 2011 that hit us. The manager of the little c-store (likeable guy) seen it coming and went outside rushing customers inside to the walkin. That guy gets all my business now even if his store was on the other side of town. Back in '10 the one that hit the Loves on I40 and Choctaw the assistant manager went outside to rush people in and he ended up getting hit by debris


Yeah, a friend of my dad's was at the one in Catoosa back in 93, and rushed to help people affected after the building collapsed.  It wasn't until he finally sat down hours later that the bleeding in his brain took him (no one had even known he had been hit by any debris).
2013-05-21 08:20:14 AM
1 votes:

muck4doo: Indeed. Makes me wonder if those saying "why don't you build your house of bricks?" really understand how powerful these tornadoes are. Do they get them in Europe?


Tornadoes in Europe

Looks like 3-5 a year, for the entire continent. During tornado season in the US, I'm fairly sure there's 3-5 on ground at any given moment, for the entire season.
2013-05-21 08:07:52 AM
1 votes:

log_jammin: SDRR: At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks.

you lose the roof, and your neighbors lose their roofs, then all the pieces of those roofs then tear down those concrete/cinder block walls.

2x4s at tornado speeds go through concrete like they weren't even there.


Actually a reinforced concrete wall stops 2x4's pretty well; the board shatters on the outside without penetrating. Hollow concrete block or brick on a wood frame wall the 2x4 punches right through.

No, the only kind of structure that would have survived yesterday's tornado would have been a small, steel reinforced concrete building or room where the walls and roof were all cast as one unit, with steel tying everything together internally. Even then I'd want the concrete walls to be at least 8" thick and the door would be a concern; there was one image of a huge metal water tank that had been ripped from its support and thrown a half mile or more by the storm. The strength of this tornado was initially estimated at a strong EF4 but I expect it will be upgraded to EF5 once the assessment is finished.
2013-05-21 08:07:28 AM
1 votes:

Evilhippie: Not trying to rub salt in anyone's wound here, but I was sitting with my girlfriend and watching a newsfeed. It seems pretty much all houses in the path of the tornado are built with wood. I live in Northern Europe and we are used to some weather as well (no big tornadoes though). All our homes and buildings are built either with clay bricks or concrete - to offer proper shelter in e.g. a hurricane, and to keep heat inside during cold winters.

I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?


I think wood frame houses are MUCH more common here in the US than over in Europe; you see them even in northern Maine, for example; yes, much of our housing stock isn't terribly energy efficient in winter time, but good insulation can help a LOT.  Just put extra in my condo (wooden) a few years back.

Now, you throw an F4 tornado at a quaint brick northern European town...and I bet you're going to get a lot of quaint brick shrapnel.

Same thing would happen in Boston, of course, with the brick townhouses here.
(And if we ever get a big earthquake...well, we're about due for one.)

Now, as far as concrete goes...did you see the picture of that medical center? yes, it was still standing, but it was pretty banged up.  Real tornadoes are no-fooling around, finger-of-god type weather...
2013-05-21 08:07:27 AM
1 votes:

SomeOkieGirl: I didn't see any mention of my name but I don't have TF anymore. I did check in on the original thread and was checking on basemetal and a few others. Everyone is okay around here. So sad for my friends and family that were no so lucky.


Your name came up in a GG conversation. I'll pass along the news of your okness if that's cool with you.

My heart is so heavy for those that lost family and friends. The stuff you can always get back...the people not so much. Y'all keep the responders in your thoughts as well...They have a long row to hoe in the next few days. I just heard that the Plaza Tower scene has been declared a "recovery" scene.

Shiat.
2013-05-21 07:46:41 AM
1 votes:

SDRR: reillan: SDRR: I don't understand how you would want to live in a completely wood framed house where tornadoes are a possibility. At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks. But that's just me.

This is freaking horrifying to watch, hearts out to all those affected.

Oklahoma is one of the cheapest places in the country to live.  The result is that we don't really have a lot of money for sturdy construction.

I think that tornado made Andrew look like a spring shower too, which isn't helping. Horrible.


Many of the destroyed homes had brick in their construction too. Look at the school. It wasn't prefab wood. And it didn't fare much better.
2013-05-21 07:43:39 AM
1 votes:

reillan: SDRR: I don't understand how you would want to live in a completely wood framed house where tornadoes are a possibility. At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks. But that's just me.

This is freaking horrifying to watch, hearts out to all those affected.

Oklahoma is one of the cheapest places in the country to live.  The result is that we don't really have a lot of money for sturdy construction.


I think that tornado made Andrew look like a spring shower too, which isn't helping. Horrible.
2013-05-21 07:39:51 AM
1 votes:

SDRR: I don't understand how you would want to live in a completely wood framed house where tornadoes are a possibility. At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks. But that's just me.

This is freaking horrifying to watch, hearts out to all those affected.


Oklahoma is one of the cheapest places in the country to live.  The result is that we don't really have a lot of money for sturdy construction.
2013-05-21 07:36:28 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: A family of four died hiding in a freezer?


That's one big freezer. Mine holds two hookers, three at the most if they're crack whores.
2013-05-21 07:35:37 AM
1 votes:

Medic Zero: evilsofa: Medic Zero: Who builds out of just concrete? It needs steel reinforcement inside it.

Oh, you want to build homes in Oklahoma with ICF walls instead of 2x6 frame?  Just increase the costs of your exterior walls by 2 or 3 times.  Say your original exterior wall cost was $6,000, now it's $20,000.

No problem.  So simple!  Right, guys?

I never said it was simple or cheap.


That's the same BS we heard after Andrew hit Homestead. Funny, all the homes were rebuilt, but to an entirely new standard. New rules were also put into place to make sure structures in a storm surge zone were built at least 6' - 9' off the ground.

I don't understand how you would want to live in a completely wood framed house where tornadoes are a possibility. At least if the walls are concrete/block, you lose the roof but the entire structure doesn't turn into toothpicks. But that's just me.

This is freaking horrifying to watch, hearts out to all those affected.
2013-05-21 06:56:57 AM
1 votes:

Zotfripper: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/05/20/185622054/video-a-time - lapse-of-the-oklahoma-tornado?ft=1&f=1001

See if this link works. Crazy stuff.


Well he's intellectually consistent, I'll give him that.  Morally bankrupt, but consistent.
2013-05-21 06:56:28 AM
1 votes:

SomeOkieGirl: Thinking of you. I'm so sad she lost her home but glad she is okay.


HEY! You were mentioned yesterday. Some folks wondering if you were in the clear. (don't be such a stranger!) Good to see you! Going to be another long day today. You guys from DFW north keep your head on a swivel.

And while y'all are at it, keep the responders in your thoughts.
2013-05-21 06:53:47 AM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Holy
farking
shiat

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/oklahoma-gop-sen-tom-cobu r n-will-seek-to?ref=fpb


how about we offset it by cutting his pay,retirement and any benefits he might be receiving?
bastard was probably the leaker in the AP scandal too.
2013-05-21 06:47:12 AM
1 votes:

Bontesla: Shadow Blasko: Radar indicated tornado on the ground, hendricks county Indiana... headed towards (I can't believe I have to type this) THE SPEEDWAY.

We may need a thread to specifically address this day of hell - TWC says to be prepared for the same.


Tornadic outbreaks typically occur over more than one day, in different areas of the country.
2013-05-21 06:46:37 AM
1 votes:

Bontesla: Shadow Blasko: Radar indicated tornado on the ground, hendricks county Indiana... headed towards (I can't believe I have to type this) THE SPEEDWAY.

We may need a thread to specifically address this day of hell - TWC says to be prepared for the same.


Luckily that one died .. the whole line blew itself out, but man... This week is just not gonna end.. weather disaster wise.
2013-05-21 06:44:12 AM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: Radar indicated tornado on the ground, hendricks county Indiana... headed towards (I can't believe I have to type this) THE SPEEDWAY.


We may need a thread to specifically address this day of hell - TWC says to be prepared for the same.
2013-05-21 06:43:00 AM
1 votes:

ArgusRun: nukeim: Captain Swoop: Shadow Blasko: nukeim: Captain Swoop: OK City scanners reporting more nasty weather imminent.....

Eh...This one aint gonna do squat.

It's gonna make rescue work wet and miserable, not to mention limiting light.

Exactly. The Command Post is calling in most units now who could be searching for survivors instead, so 'ain't gonna do squat' might matter a bit to somebody trapped under rubble.

I bet not a single person, or unit, stops searching...Not without a warm body taking their place anyway. Folks here don't operate like that.

*shrugs*

I just meant that it's not going to tear shiat up. No reason to get pissy.

Folks nowhere operate like that.  No one area holds the monopoly on compassion.

Can't stand the farking platitudes after every disaster.  Oklahoma City isn't any more special than Boston is gritty or New York is resilient or farkng Bangladesh.  Everyone helps out and the somehow finds a way to go on with their lives.


And maybe just ignore my cynicism.  Saw upthread that your mom lost her house.  Glad she's okay, but I'm sorry for her loss.
2013-05-21 05:35:30 AM
1 votes:

Evilhippie: Not trying to rub salt in anyone's wound here, but I was sitting with my girlfriend and watching a newsfeed. It seems pretty much all houses in the path of the tornado are built with wood. I live in Northern Europe and we are used to some weather as well (no big tornadoes though). All our homes and buildings are built either with clay bricks or concrete - to offer proper shelter in e.g. a hurricane, and to keep heat inside during cold winters.

I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?


They're wood frame, covered in brick... For the most part. Some are simply covered in siding. But not many. But even the brick doesn't stand up to the weight/velocity of what gets flung at them in a tornado.
2013-05-21 05:30:32 AM
1 votes:
Not trying to rub salt in anyone's wound here, but I was sitting with my girlfriend and watching a newsfeed. It seems pretty much all houses in the path of the tornado are built with wood. I live in Northern Europe and we are used to some weather as well (no big tornadoes though). All our homes and buildings are built either with clay bricks or concrete - to offer proper shelter in e.g. a hurricane, and to keep heat inside during cold winters.

I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?
2013-05-21 05:13:15 AM
1 votes:

Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.


When these things hit they are like atomic bombs, and take out anything and everything in their paths.  It's not like getting shelled in the bunkers along the Normandy coast by battleships (and as I recall those didn't fare too well in some areas).  Tornadoes are VERY powerful, and often unpredictable as to what exactly they will hit, or where.
2013-05-21 05:12:50 AM
1 votes:

esteban9: Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.

What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

[www.orau.org image 477x637]

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.

I used to work at the National Severe Storms Lab and NWS Radar Operations Center in Norman in the 90s. The following is from the City of Moore's website, explaining why they operate no community shelters. However, I'm not so sure of their lead time rationale. Given the aforementioned facilities, I think that warnings are the best in the country and that if people have adequate conduits and awareness, 30 minute lead times are not at all unrealistic:

"The City of Moore has no community (or "public") tornado shelters. This is due to two factors: Overall, people face less risk by taking shelter in a reasonably-well constructed residence! There is no public building in Moore which has a suitable location for a shelter. Yes, there is less overall risk by sheltering-in-place than by going to a community shelter. The average tornado warning time is generally only 10-15 minutes. That's just not enough time for a person to receive the warning, make a conscious decision to leave their home, gather the few things needed (family, keys, etc.), lock the house, get into the car, drive to a shelter (including possibly experiencing a traffic jam of others trying to get to the same shelter!), get out of the car, and make the way into the community shelter. In this scenario, there's a far greater likelihood of getting caught in your car when the tornado strikes! "


OK...that rationale makes sense to me..thanks.
FNG [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 05:08:53 AM
1 votes:
I've been following this all day and night, and reading all the threads while watching the news. This is unbelievably awful. Heart and prayers to all involved, hope all Farkers' families end up safe.
2013-05-21 04:44:38 AM
1 votes:

nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.


What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

www.orau.org

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.
2013-05-21 04:38:59 AM
1 votes:

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Medic Zero: thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.

Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.

That school probably was concrete. But like was said (and linked, with a video) above...You throw THAT much crap, THAT hard, at just about any structure, it's going to fail. How thick does a wall need to be to stop an airborne minivan? Pretty much underground is the only safe way to do this, but not a basement, as 1) there aren't many basements in OK due to groundwater or something like that...Houses just aren't built with them and 2) You going to make an underground storm shelter big enough for a thousand kids in EVERY school?

I hope so...But I won't hold my breath.

My high school's gym was in the basement level and we had our assemblies there, so it can be done. I didn't grow up in any sort of a tornado-prone area though (NYC), so I'm not sure if my mileage may vary.


Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.
2013-05-21 04:14:44 AM
1 votes:
Don't if this video has been posted. Really up close video of the tornado from a storm shelter.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ
2013-05-21 03:46:02 AM
1 votes:

you are a puppet: esteban9: I sure would like to know what the people in Moore, OK have been doing to piss God off so much...

Maybe he really likes them and wants them by his side in Heaven.

Put another way: "He wants Moore He wants Moore...like, he really likes it he wants Moore"


Who can question the will of the Almighty? I guess us...
2013-05-21 03:33:14 AM
1 votes:
Well, I'm not sure but that is starting to look like a derecho to me...
2013-05-21 03:31:22 AM
1 votes:

FlyingBacon: If you really want a tornado proof home, just build a bunker underground. Problem solved. My uncle in Iowa got a underground home and i am sure he can ride out a tornado. Not sure how the door to the outside will hold up.


Having lived in that part of Okla., that's a very expensive proposition given the very hard substrate there.
2013-05-21 03:30:34 AM
1 votes:

elffster: nukeim: Teknowaffle: Jesus. I guess that is what happens when you build plywood suburbs in a part of the world named Tornado Alley.

Would brick/poured concrete fare better? Or would they just give the storm heavier shrapnel?

Most houses here ARE brick on concrete slab.

But its still the traditional stick built house, isnt it?  What are the rafters and roof made of, under those shingles?

http://www.monolithic.com/   If I could, thats who I'd use to make my house..


Seems like it would be good PR for these guys to donate all or some of the cost towards replacing those schools with tornado-resistant dome structures.
2013-05-21 03:29:29 AM
1 votes:
If you really want a tornado proof home, just build a bunker underground. Problem solved. My uncle in Iowa got a underground home and i am sure he can ride out a tornado. Not sure how the door to the outside will hold up.
2013-05-21 02:44:39 AM
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: rackrent: Does anyone have the original text from the NWS tornado warning for Moore?  Just wondering how they phrased such a warning.

Found it here for the Moore tornado--it was already a declared tornado emergency at that point.  Here is the followup severe weather statement (emphasizing that this was a tornado emergency, which frankly may be the understatement of the year--which is saying something seeing as the Norman WFO INVENTED the whole concept of the "tornado emergency" as "SRSLY, GET IN THE BASEMENT NAO" warning-plus the LAST time Moore, OK got slammed).

The second severe weather statement is remarkably understated in comparison, the third severe weather statement is another reminder this is TORNADO EMERGENCY SRS BUSINESS, a fourth severe weather statement noting Tornado Emergency was issued ten minutes after, and then finally a (remarkably understated) severe weather statement was issued as the storm moved toward Meeker.

/took some digging on this--suffice it to say that the Norman, OK WFO had a no-good, very bad, very busy day today


Can I just tell you that you are the man?  It's a bit eerie reading all of those warnings just now.  While a very bad and very busy day for the NWS, they clearly did their job.  Thanks again.
2013-05-21 02:44:36 AM
1 votes:

italie: Bippal: I live not far from Henyrville In, my grandfather lives there. The elementary school was destroyed, most of the town as well. It's not nearly as big, and they are just now getting rebuilt. I can only imagine how long this will take to get back going. My fiancee is pregnant with baby number three and had to go to bed early tonight. We had to shut the TV off :(

Not to stroll off topic, but it took three kids before you put a ring on it?


No, she had two before we met, but I've raised them since they were little, and I've been married before myself. She's pregnant with mine now. We both left cheaters.
2013-05-21 02:28:45 AM
1 votes:
2013-05-21 02:24:34 AM
1 votes:
Another good video. Maybe better on mute.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b9d_1369098943
2013-05-21 02:21:50 AM
1 votes:

Triumph: Olfin Bedwere: 7th Son of a 7th Son: Looks like 91 from this specific twister.

It might be 200 by the time all is said and done

The TV warnings started about 40 minutes out. The sirens gave 16 minutes notice. The local TV guys did an amazing job of warning people that the only two options were to get below ground or flee. I can't imagine what the numbers would be like if this thing had hit at 3 a.m.


And the warnings only work if people pay attention to them
2013-05-21 02:13:28 AM
1 votes:

thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.


You got that right... a storm shelter will only work if you can get inside and the door locked on time. With a large group, you may not get everybody inside on time. Something to think about.  If they do storm shelters drills many time a year, it would work better. That not counting those cheap neighbors that are trying to use the school shelters in a real emergency.  That would slow things down. It would be a mess.
2013-05-21 02:09:01 AM
1 votes:
Anyone want some more good news?

Looks like the line is starting to collapse! Big gust front starting to form out front of the line.


Goodbye CAPE
2013-05-21 01:54:48 AM
1 votes:

tinfoil-hat maggie: Yes actually the news copters had live coverage of a police helicopter right over the area and by right over I mean 50 feet. The coverage I saw the news helicopters respected the no fly zone. Don't know for sure today was information overload for sure.


My guess is that the police helicopter was either transporting a patient, or using FLIR equipment to look for survivors.

Lifeguard-status aircraft can violate a NFZ like that.
2013-05-21 01:51:44 AM
1 votes:
Guys, at this point, please contact your local red cross chapter and see if there is anything you can do.

If you can give, do so.
2013-05-21 01:48:39 AM
1 votes:
http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_3_0780.html

There is a no fly zone over the damage area. According to my friend who works for the weather service in the area, the news helicopters were drowning out victims cries for help.
2013-05-21 01:35:58 AM
1 votes:

Triumph: J. Frank Parnell: [i.imgur.com image 850x645]

Not really gory, but there is some blood. If it's too much for a mod someone else can convert it to link. I'd understand.

Things can get crazy fast. Everyone should take a moment to appreciate the relative order in their lives. And of course help if you can. So many people will need it in the coming weeks.

Just FYI, according to MSNBC those are not the parents of those kids, those are teachers from the school leading them out.


Kudos if they are teachers, but I'm going to call shenanigans based upon the attire.
2013-05-21 01:28:52 AM
1 votes:
Had a feeling someone might have posted that in the other thread, and of course they did. I think it's still probably the most heart wrenching thing i've seen in a long time, and epitomizes this event perfectly.
2013-05-21 01:25:56 AM
1 votes:

Bippal: I live not far from Henyrville In, my grandfather lives there. The elementary school was destroyed, most of the town as well. It's not nearly as big, and they are just now getting rebuilt. I can only imagine how long this will take to get back going. My fiancee is pregnant with baby number three and had to go to bed early tonight. We had to shut the TV off :(


Not to stroll off topic, but it took three kids before you put a ring on it?
2013-05-21 01:25:44 AM
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: [i.imgur.com image 850x645]

Not really gory, but there is some blood. If it's too much for a mod someone else can convert it to link. I'd understand.

Things can get crazy fast. Everyone should take a moment to appreciate the relative order in their lives. And of course help if you can. So many people will need it in the coming weeks.


Actually, I'd like to use that picture as a good example for my daughter for why she should wear well-laced sneakers and not flip-flops, sandals or slip on shoes.
2013-05-21 01:24:22 AM
1 votes:

Shadow Blasko: just want to say... With a bit of relief, that there are no active tornado warnings as of right now.

*everyone take a deep breath... but keep your guard up*


thank god!

\its an idiom expressing great relief.
2013-05-21 01:24:05 AM
1 votes:

Cytokine Storm: mikaloyd: thread needs a badge

No it doesn't.


This.
/No it doesn't and it's not something I would put in my profile
/It's just a tragic day, there have really been many like this day all over the country at times.
2013-05-21 01:22:27 AM
1 votes:
I live not far from Henyrville In, my grandfather lives there. The elementary school was destroyed, most of the town as well. It's not nearly as big, and they are just now getting rebuilt. I can only imagine how long this will take to get back going. My fiancee is pregnant with baby number three and had to go to bed early tonight. We had to shut the TV off :(
2013-05-21 01:20:57 AM
1 votes:

dumbandilikeit: Off to bed.  I just remember the KFOR met saying DEATH DEATH DEATH.  He was not kidding.  Glad he used those words.  Hopefully when dawn comes there will be no more. (I know I kid myself)

Shiat.


It was a bad day, but the reality is it could have been much worse. Hopefully in the future it will be better during these things.
: (
2013-05-21 01:20:25 AM
1 votes:

Cytokine Storm: mikaloyd: thread needs a badge

No it doesn't.


might could use one
2013-05-21 01:19:31 AM
1 votes:
just want to say... With a bit of relief, that there are no active tornado warnings as of right now.

*everyone take a deep breath... but keep your guard up*
2013-05-21 01:17:11 AM
1 votes:

FunkOut: thisisyourbrainonFark: CNN ticker: Wife of meteorologist at CNN affiliate KOCO surveys damage: Neighborhood looks like a 'war zone'

/this is CNN
//Piers Morgan asking coroner to predict the number of bodies

Piers Morgan needs a one way trip to Mars without a spacesuit.


Well that goes without saying and I don't even care what he just said.
2013-05-21 01:16:07 AM
1 votes:
I was just checking to see what the warnings/watches were for my area, and as I was reading the NWS statement, I realized that I was reading it in that computerized voice you hear on the radio whenever something happens. It's kinda creepy.
2013-05-21 01:15:34 AM
1 votes:
Off to bed.  I just remember the KFOR met saying DEATH DEATH DEATH.  He was not kidding.  Glad he used those words.  Hopefully when dawn comes there will be no more. (I know I kid myself)

Shiat.
2013-05-21 01:13:53 AM
1 votes:

ummhima2: Uchiha_Cycliste: 7th Son of a 7th Son: http://livewire.koco.com/Event/Live_Wire_Tracking_Oklahoma_storms_May _ 18 Live feed of KOCO. They are now reporting that they are adding the 40 expected dead to the official death toll. So now it stands at 91. Holy freaking god. :(

Is that just OKC? OR all of May 20th?

As reported by the oklahom ME so probably just oklahoma


Christ. This was a really bad super cell.
2013-05-21 01:13:30 AM
1 votes:

thisisyourbrainonFark: CNN ticker: Wife of meteorologist at CNN affiliate KOCO surveys damage: Neighborhood looks like a 'war zone'

/this is CNN
//Piers Morgan asking coroner to predict the number of bodies


Piers Morgan needs a one way trip to Mars without a spacesuit.
2013-05-21 01:10:31 AM
1 votes:

7th Son of a 7th Son: http://livewire.koco.com/Event/Live_Wire_Tracking_Oklahoma_storms_May _ 18 Live feed of KOCO. They are now reporting that they are adding the 40 expected dead to the official death toll. So now it stands at 91. Holy freaking god. :(


Is that just OKC? OR all of May 20th?
2013-05-21 01:10:30 AM
1 votes:
For those who watched it live...the helicopter pilot at the time had a home in the direct path.  It was surreal.
2013-05-21 01:05:17 AM
1 votes:
No chance. Video in the last seconds is astonishing.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2013/05/20/2344735/
2013-05-21 01:04:35 AM
1 votes:
2013-05-21 12:58:30 AM
1 votes:

Peacedog: Gonna post this again.  Some great footage of the beginning of the tornado in the Newcastle area.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=580914905273381


Anyone else see that white spec fly across left to right at 5:14?  That's WAY up in the air, and I doubt it's a bird.
2013-05-21 12:54:35 AM
1 votes:

AlanSmithee: Fun fact: tornadoes in Australia spin in the opposite direction.


Fun fact, anti-cyclonic tornadoes happen in North America as well.
2013-05-21 12:54:29 AM
1 votes:
My office mate's sister lives near OKC. Hoping she's well. (He was in Moore for the '99 tornado.)

Thoughts and good wishes to you folks in the area.

/helped with clean-up in Joplin
//took days to get all the fiberglass insulation off my skin
///it's a truly otherworldly thing to behold.
2013-05-21 12:54:28 AM
1 votes:
Just got back online after all the craziness today.  It's been crazy here.  I spent all evening tracking down most of my friends, as a majority of them are in the Moore area.  Thankfully all are safe and sound.  This day just broke my heart.

Shattered by the death and destruction this storm wrought.
2013-05-21 12:53:27 AM
1 votes:
Gonna post this again.  Some great footage of the beginning of the tornado in the Newcastle area.

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=580914905273381
2013-05-21 12:51:28 AM
1 votes:

patchvonbraun: You know, I've never been involved in a tornado, but I have repeating nighmares about them.

Desperately trying to find shelter.  Head into an underground parking garage, only to discover that
  it's actually above-ground and directly exposed, that sort of thing.  Sigh.


I've had a couple myself; I attribute it to having family in the midwest and visiting once or twice during the season/hearing the sirens.

On a related note, Indianapolis and surrounding counties are under a tornado watch now. Tagged all my facebook connections in the area... hopefully they were already taking precautions before the NWS upgraded it.
2013-05-21 12:50:30 AM
1 votes:
Uncle works at Tinker so he arrived home pretty late, but his home is still standing. Thankfully he and his wife are the only two people I know who still live in Moore. (Why they still live in Moore after living through all the other tornadoes is a mystery to me.)

According to local news, they're already turning away volunteers and there are mile and a half long lines of cars of people trying to drop off donations. Policy-wise we're not always the most forward-thinking state, but we damn well know how to look after each other.
2013-05-21 12:48:35 AM
1 votes:

FlyingJ: i can't imagine the balls of those newschopper pilots...


Interesting, on the weather podcast thing I watched earlier, they mentioned that the type of tornado you get in the plains states is different from what you get in the southeast... they said their pilots wouldn't be comfortable trying to go film in the plains states because of that.
2013-05-21 12:48:08 AM
1 votes:
The scale of the destruction just shuts down my mind. I have so many friends that literally were missed by a block or two of this. And we just found out a family friend lost everything. I don't really have anything else to contribute.
2013-05-21 12:47:16 AM
1 votes:
i can't imagine the balls of those newschopper pilots...
2013-05-21 12:45:03 AM
1 votes:
2013-05-21 12:42:16 AM
1 votes:

patchvonbraun: You know, I've never been involved in a tornado, but I have repeating nighmares about them.

Desperately trying to find shelter.  Head into an underground parking garage, only to discover that
  it's actually above-ground and directly exposed, that sort of thing.  Sigh.


that's horrifying.
2013-05-21 12:41:33 AM
1 votes:

you are a puppet: I heard on reddit that the tornado could be Ravi Trapathi?


never listen to those cretins. No good comes from them.
2013-05-21 12:38:51 AM
1 votes:
Well... here we go again.
2013-05-21 12:36:59 AM
1 votes:
hopefully only us tho... not more twisters.
 
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