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(News9 Oklahoma)   Oklahoma tornado thread #3. LGT live updates/streaming   (news9.com) divider line 565
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2636 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 May 2013 at 12:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-21 03:53:18 AM

Shadow Blasko: neongoats: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: FunkOut: muck4doo: mikaloyd: Cytokine Storm: mikaloyd:

Rumpleminz... Drink till you puke (which wont take long) and still have minty fresh breath!


Back in my Navy days I had a mode of operation: four shots of that stuff before heading out to the bars. It never caused me any problems. TaKillYa on the other hand...that is just evil

Regarding the storm deaths, I think I will be afraid to see the news in the morning. Reporting at least 91 now, with many of those children. Nature is a cruel mother
 
2013-05-21 03:53:22 AM
Juan, Moore, missing
 
2013-05-21 03:54:31 AM
Or:

Juan: Moore missing
 
2013-05-21 03:54:59 AM

esteban9: FlyingBacon: If you really want a tornado proof home, just build a bunker underground. Problem solved. My uncle in Iowa got a underground home and i am sure he can ride out a tornado. Not sure how the door to the outside will hold up.

Having lived in that part of Okla., that's a very expensive proposition given the very hard substrate there.


Very true. One way to do it cheaper, build or buy a "normal" home and insured it really heavy and build a small storm bunker to protect you and your family and pets. A storm shelter will increase the value of your place.

If you are a renter and the place got no storm shelter, you are farked up. Sorry, its true.

/this farker's grandma was born and raise in Okla.
 
2013-05-21 03:56:31 AM

germ78: Uchiha_Cycliste: tinfoil-hat maggie: Uchiha_Cycliste: you thought I was kidding, didn't ya?

Why yes I did, still want.

can you buy liquor through the internets?

damn right you can.

/it was the first suggestion from google by entering "buy li"


Soon to be overtaken by "buy liver".
 
2013-05-21 04:03:33 AM

powhound: Regarding the storm deaths, I think I will be afraid to see the news in the morning. Reporting at least 91 now, with many of those children. Nature is a cruel mother


which is why I will be aggressively avoiding the news for the next couple of weeks.
 
2013-05-21 04:03:50 AM

FlyingBacon: esteban9: FlyingBacon: If you really want a tornado proof home, just build a bunker underground. Problem solved. My uncle in Iowa got a underground home and i am sure he can ride out a tornado. Not sure how the door to the outside will hold up.

Having lived in that part of Okla., that's a very expensive proposition given the very hard substrate there.

Very true. One way to do it cheaper, build or buy a "normal" home and insured it really heavy and build a small storm bunker to protect you and your family and pets. A storm shelter will increase the value of your place.

If you are a renter and the place got no storm shelter, you are farked up. Sorry, its true.

/this farker's grandma was born and raise in Okla.


Having a storm shelter has pretty much zero impact on home prices here. You can point it out as a feature when selling...But most don't bother.

And you can install one for well under $3,000 in your backyard (retail). So it's not like a ridiculously expensive upgrade.

We had one just like this put in last year for about $2,500:

www.precastunlimitedinc.com
 
2013-05-21 04:08:10 AM

7th Son of a 7th Son: Mom lives in Edmond, dad lives in NW OKC. Both are okay. I was not expecting this storm to weaken as fast as it did, by the time it got to Stroud/Bristow it seemed to almost disintegrate.


Glad to hear your folks are alright. I've got tons of friends who are Okies, and my girlfriend is from OKC. She's visiting this week! O.o  Thankfully everyone I know is ok.
 
2013-05-21 04:09:17 AM

log_jammin: Shadow Blasko: [www.spc.noaa.gov image 815x555]
So... Who's sleeping in tomorrow? No one!

that's yesterdays.

here's todays.
[i131.photobucket.com image 640x480]


Well, sorta... It's todays valid through noon.
 
2013-05-21 04:14:44 AM
Don't if this video has been posted. Really up close video of the tornado from a storm shelter.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ
 
2013-05-21 04:15:04 AM

FlyingBacon: esteban9: FlyingBacon: If you really want a tornado proof home, just build a bunker underground. Problem solved. My uncle in Iowa got a underground home and i am sure he can ride out a tornado. Not sure how the door to the outside will hold up.

Having lived in that part of Okla., that's a very expensive proposition given the very hard substrate there.

Very true. One way to do it cheaper, build or buy a "normal" home and insured it really heavy and build a small storm bunker to protect you and your family and pets. A storm shelter will increase the value of your place.

If you are a renter and the place got no storm shelter, you are farked up. Sorry, its true.

/this farker's grandma was born and raise in Okla.


Very true. I'm sure many in Moore bought some shelters after the 1999 tornado. I know of at least one story personally where it saved a couple lives. I'm sure there are more.
 
2013-05-21 04:15:27 AM

nukeim: We had one just like this put in last year for about $2,500:


what company?

I need to add one. I've put it off for way too long.
 
2013-05-21 04:16:04 AM

worlddan: The thing that get my attention is all the water. I know that sounds strange but i live in the desert where there hasn't been a hurricane or a tornado or a tsunami in literally millions of years. I sometimes forget that I live on a world that is 70% water. Everybody else is looking at all the destruction and I sit here thinking, "day-um. Where did all the water come from?"


I grew up in the desert too and never saw one personally, but my relatives were from the Midwest and tell me about tornados they had seen. There was one in  Tucson in the 70s that actually touched down and did some damage. I was young and kept indoors and missed all the fun. We have had some funnel clouds  in the area though, that have never touched down.  As for water some if from the storm and rest is from spring snow run off or being a planned community it could also be man made like in Phoenix does with CAP and Salt River water.

I would visit an uncle in Missouri and one time there was a tornado warning on TV.  I was kind of freaked out about it. So he decided to have fun with his desert rat niece.  It was evening and he kept point to the cloudy sky and tell me he could see a funnel cloud.  Needless to say I did not get much sleep that night.
 
2013-05-21 04:20:08 AM

thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.


Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.
 
2013-05-21 04:20:47 AM

log_jammin: nukeim: We had one just like this put in last year for about $2,500:

what company?

I need to add one. I've put it off for way too long.


Small local joint. Same guy that services my septic system actually. So I guess you could say that he's all about saving my ass.
 
2013-05-21 04:25:35 AM

Medic Zero: thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.

Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.


That school probably was concrete. But like was said (and linked, with a video) above...You throw THAT much crap, THAT hard, at just about any structure, it's going to fail. How thick does a wall need to be to stop an airborne minivan? Pretty much underground is the only safe way to do this, but not a basement, as 1) there aren't many basements in OK due to groundwater or something like that...Houses just aren't built with them and 2) You going to make an underground storm shelter big enough for a thousand kids in EVERY school?

I hope so...But I won't hold my breath.
 
2013-05-21 04:28:49 AM

tkil: maxheck: Today in unfortunate product placement...

[i39.tinypic.com image 800x154]

This is the juxtaposition that caught my eye, on BBC News:

[foiani.home.dyndns.org image 464x217]


Of course that is actually talking about the highest predicted levels of CO2 sensitivity for the global climate being less likely given recent data, it was not referring to extreme weather events.
 
2013-05-21 04:31:41 AM

sonorangal: worlddan: The thing that get my attention is all the water. I know that sounds strange but i live in the desert where there hasn't been a hurricane or a tornado or a tsunami in literally millions of years. I sometimes forget that I live on a world that is 70% water. Everybody else is looking at all the destruction and I sit here thinking, "day-um. Where did all the water come from?"

I grew up in the desert too and never saw one personally, but my relatives were from the Midwest and tell me about tornados they had seen. There was one in  Tucson in the 70s that actually touched down and did some damage. I was young and kept indoors and missed all the fun. We have had some funnel clouds  in the area though, that have never touched down.  As for water some if from the storm and rest is from spring snow run off or being a planned community it could also be man made like in Phoenix does with CAP and Salt River water.

I would visit an uncle in Missouri and one time there was a tornado warning on TV.  I was kind of freaked out about it. So he decided to have fun with his desert rat niece.  It was evening and he kept point to the cloudy sky and tell me he could see a funnel cloud.  Needless to say I did not get much sleep that night.


That does remind of what my great uncle would do or say.
 
2013-05-21 04:35:47 AM

nukeim: Medic Zero: thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.

Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.

That school probably was concrete. But like was said (and linked, with a video) above...You throw THAT much crap, THAT hard, at just about any structure, it's going to fail. How thick does a wall need to be to stop an airborne minivan? Pretty much underground is the only safe way to do this, but not a basement, as 1) there aren't many basements in OK due to groundwater or something like that...Houses just aren't built with them and 2) You going to make an underground storm shelter big enough for a thousand kids in EVERY school?

I hope so...But I won't hold my breath.


My high school's gym was in the basement level and we had our assemblies there, so it can be done. I didn't grow up in any sort of a tornado-prone area though (NYC), so I'm not sure if my mileage may vary.
 
2013-05-21 04:38:59 AM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Medic Zero: thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.

Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.

That school probably was concrete. But like was said (and linked, with a video) above...You throw THAT much crap, THAT hard, at just about any structure, it's going to fail. How thick does a wall need to be to stop an airborne minivan? Pretty much underground is the only safe way to do this, but not a basement, as 1) there aren't many basements in OK due to groundwater or something like that...Houses just aren't built with them and 2) You going to make an underground storm shelter big enough for a thousand kids in EVERY school?

I hope so...But I won't hold my breath.

My high school's gym was in the basement level and we had our assemblies there, so it can be done. I didn't grow up in any sort of a tornado-prone area though (NYC), so I'm not sure if my mileage may vary.


Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.
 
2013-05-21 04:42:59 AM

Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete


when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.
 
2013-05-21 04:44:38 AM

nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.


What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

www.orau.org

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.
 
2013-05-21 04:46:34 AM

Medic Zero: thisisyourbrainonFark: dumbandilikeit: They had about 20-30mins of warnings, but not much you can do when faced with a storm of that size.

Obvious questions will be whether Plaza Towers and other buildings had underground storm shelters and whether building codes mandate them. Assume they will be now. But if the storm hit as quick as you say, mandatory shelters don't mean jack if you can't get to them.
As another farker said, some of these suburbs look like Dresden times 10.

Early reports had the kids sheltering in a central hallway.

How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete and lack a shelter I have no idea. Might as well build on a flood plain.


Like most kids in school we had our annual tornado drill each year which consisted of having everyone on the 2nd floor go down stairs.

The one and only time we ever actually had a real tornado, which was an F1 that never came within 10 miles of the school, they decided it would be too crowded and uncomfortable for everyone to go downstairs so half the kids stayed on the top floor.

/CSB
 
2013-05-21 04:47:06 AM

Theory Of Null: Don't if this video has been posted. Really up close video of the tornado from a storm shelter.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ</a>



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwf6HvAG8cA  Another one. It's sucking up shiat from 200 yards away.
 
2013-05-21 04:51:57 AM

Theory Of Null: Theory Of Null: Don't if this video has been posted. Really up close video of the tornado from a storm shelter.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3o6wTcy4UQ</a>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwf6HvAG8cA  Another one. It's sucking up shiat from 200 yards away.


Holy crap that was WAAAAAAAAY too close.
 
2013-05-21 04:52:15 AM

nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.


To add to this it wouldn't take much house to be on top of the basement door to ensure you couldn't get out, even it the basement was purpose-built to withstand the collapse. Just something that came to mind.
 
2013-05-21 04:54:07 AM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.

What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

[www.orau.org image 477x637]

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.


I used to work at the National Severe Storms Lab and NWS Radar Operations Center in Norman in the 90s. The following is from the City of Moore's website, explaining why they operate no community shelters. However, I'm not so sure of their lead time rationale. Given the aforementioned facilities, I think that warnings are the best in the country and that if people have adequate conduits and awareness, 30 minute lead times are not at all unrealistic:

"The City of Moore has no community (or "public") tornado shelters. This is due to two factors: Overall, people face less risk by taking shelter in a reasonably-well constructed residence! There is no public building in Moore which has a suitable location for a shelter. Yes, there is less overall risk by sheltering-in-place than by going to a community shelter. The average tornado warning time is generally only 10-15 minutes. That's just not enough time for a person to receive the warning, make a conscious decision to leave their home, gather the few things needed (family, keys, etc.), lock the house, get into the car, drive to a shelter (including possibly experiencing a traffic jam of others trying to get to the same shelter!), get out of the car, and make the way into the community shelter. In this scenario, there's a far greater likelihood of getting caught in your car when the tornado strikes! "
 
2013-05-21 04:57:42 AM

WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.


I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.
 
2013-05-21 05:03:28 AM

Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.


A building large enough to hold 3,000 students (Moore has giant schools)? Good luck.
 
2013-05-21 05:07:39 AM

Medic Zero: With enough concrete


The issue is not the wind speed, but what's in the wind. Concrete is actually fairly brittle, if you were to take a chunk of structural concrete and throw it on the ground you'd get it to at least produce a few chips, and depending on the shape and just how hard you threw it, it could actually shatter. Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.
 
2013-05-21 05:07:42 AM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.

What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

[www.orau.org image 477x637]

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.


Government identified "Public Fallout Shelters" such as the ones associated with the sign you posted were supposed to be places capable of protecting from the effects of fallout (radioactive dust), not wind/blast damage. Sometimes they were equipped with supplies to enable occupants to avoid going outside until the radiation hazard had somewhat dissipated. The criteria to determine a shelter was aimed primarily at mitigating radiation effects, not protecting against the actual blast of the attack. Nearly all of them in the U.S. have been decommissioned and repurposed. They are often confused with a bomb shelter, which is designed to protect against airblast effects from an explosion, and would protect against wind damage from a storm. A Fallout shelter located in a basement could also do this, but it was more of a chance side effect than by design.

Privately built 'fallout shelters' were generally closer to being a bomb shelter than just a fallout shelter as identified by the government, so your neighbor's backyard cold war cave was probably safer from a tornado than the public library shelter.
 
FNG [TotalFark]
2013-05-21 05:08:53 AM
I've been following this all day and night, and reading all the threads while watching the news. This is unbelievably awful. Heart and prayers to all involved, hope all Farkers' families end up safe.
 
2013-05-21 05:09:55 AM

Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.


It's really hard to explain due to the number of dynamic forces present, but it really can't be done, cost effectively, with current tech.

Sure, you can make a house that can withstand 200 mile an hour winds, but what happens when those 200 mile an winds pick up a truck, and throw it against the house? Poof, do it again... crunch, now your wall is buckled in and the roof has a 6" lip extending where it was flush... that roof peels off like a soup can lid.

Also, you need to remember that there can be 300 to 400 mph gusts in there. It's not just the sustained winds. There could be a shearing action of massive amounts in a multiple vortices tornado.

You're talking about the kind of reinforcements that are used to isolate nuclear reactors and nuclear waste casks.

Can it be done... Yes.

Can it be done for less than $10,000 per house, with existing materials and the availability of those materials in the marketplace? Yes, but probably not for more than one city the size of Moore.

It would have to be heavily subsidized and would require massive modifications to many structures.

And what do you do about apartments?

Anyway... It's coming. It will get here. There are very very smart people working to make it happen as soon as possible. But it's gonna take a LOT of time.
 
2013-05-21 05:11:35 AM

Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.


Yes this is true.  How often does Education receive the same level of $$ as Military?

Bunkers are not typically made ABOVE ground, nor are they typically made for 1k+ people,  In theory, yes you could design a building able to withstand an F5 parking on it.  You also could design a machine to stop a tornado from ever forming if given enough time and money...
 
2013-05-21 05:11:41 AM

WhyteRaven74: Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.


When you hit the outside of a structure hard, the shock wave can knock bits of the inside ("spalling") which cause damage as they fly around. This is how most anti-tank missiles work; they don;t try to get through the armour, but instead blow chunks off the inside to bounce unhealthily around the occupants.
 
2013-05-21 05:12:50 AM

esteban9: Sir Cumference the Flatulent: nukeim: Basements aren't done in Oklahoma for the most part Especially in houses. And they're a bad idea for tornadoes anyway, because the structure is fairly likely to collapse on top of you. It needs to be a concrete box basically.

What about fallout shelters (at least in buildings that went up during the Cold War)? I used to see these signs all over the place when I was growing up.

[www.orau.org image 477x637]

Not being a smartass here, I just don't have anything resembling first-hand experience with tornadoes other than knowing that they're bad.

I used to work at the National Severe Storms Lab and NWS Radar Operations Center in Norman in the 90s. The following is from the City of Moore's website, explaining why they operate no community shelters. However, I'm not so sure of their lead time rationale. Given the aforementioned facilities, I think that warnings are the best in the country and that if people have adequate conduits and awareness, 30 minute lead times are not at all unrealistic:

"The City of Moore has no community (or "public") tornado shelters. This is due to two factors: Overall, people face less risk by taking shelter in a reasonably-well constructed residence! There is no public building in Moore which has a suitable location for a shelter. Yes, there is less overall risk by sheltering-in-place than by going to a community shelter. The average tornado warning time is generally only 10-15 minutes. That's just not enough time for a person to receive the warning, make a conscious decision to leave their home, gather the few things needed (family, keys, etc.), lock the house, get into the car, drive to a shelter (including possibly experiencing a traffic jam of others trying to get to the same shelter!), get out of the car, and make the way into the community shelter. In this scenario, there's a far greater likelihood of getting caught in your car when the tornado strikes! "


OK...that rationale makes sense to me..thanks.
 
2013-05-21 05:13:15 AM

Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.


When these things hit they are like atomic bombs, and take out anything and everything in their paths.  It's not like getting shelled in the bunkers along the Normandy coast by battleships (and as I recall those didn't fare too well in some areas).  Tornadoes are VERY powerful, and often unpredictable as to what exactly they will hit, or where.
 
2013-05-21 05:16:31 AM

nukeim: Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.

A building large enough to hold 3,000 students (Moore has giant schools)? Good luck.


Maybe make the schools smaller then? Gotta start over anyway...
 
2013-05-21 05:17:49 AM

WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: With enough concrete

The issue is not the wind speed, but what's in the wind. Concrete is actually fairly brittle, if you were to take a chunk of structural concrete and throw it on the ground you'd get it to at least produce a few chips, and depending on the shape and just how hard you threw it, it could actually shatter. Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.


And this too.  It's not just the wind, but all the objects (cars, trees, pieces of buildings, bricks, concrete pieces, etc.) that the winds will hurl at structures that causes most of the devastation.
 
2013-05-21 05:20:13 AM
For anyone interested (and awake like us graveyard Farkers), you can listen in on the OK City and Moore PD/FD radio scanner traffic covering the tornado search & rescue efforts - can be very interesting at times, for instance I just listened to Moore police complaining about a wave of Media press people flooding the area despite barricades, turned out an FBI roadblock was mistakenly giving them access! Warning - Can have periods of nothing to hear though or routine traffic, may bore some listeners at times. But there can also be some pretty graphic comments as well, if you are the sensitive type.

Links to area live audio scanner feeds (all can be found via RadioReference.com in case these URL's change):

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/mid/32 - main list, click play icon to the left to hear

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/9683/web - OK City PD and Moore PD/FD also fed in.

http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/318/web - OK City Fire Dept (providing most support for Moore recovery)
 
2013-05-21 05:21:20 AM

WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: With enough concrete

The issue is not the wind speed, but what's in the wind. Concrete is actually fairly brittle, if you were to take a chunk of structural concrete and throw it on the ground you'd get it to at least produce a few chips, and depending on the shape and just how hard you threw it, it could actually shatter. Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.


Who builds out of just concrete? It needs steel reinforcement inside it.
 
2013-05-21 05:24:57 AM

esteban9: I used to work at the National Severe Storms Lab and NWS Radar Operations Center in Norman in the 90s. The following is from the City of Moore's website, explaining why they operate no community shelters. However, I'm not so sure of their lead time rationale. Given the aforementioned facilities, I think that warnings are the best in the country and that if people have adequate conduits and awareness, 30 minute lead times are not at all unrealistic:


Ever meet a big guy named Shadow... drove an insanely beat up 1990 Acura?

/Was there in 97 for a week.
 
2013-05-21 05:29:11 AM

Medic Zero: Who builds out of just concrete? It needs steel reinforcement inside it.


OK, I'm trying to be legit on this, so let me ask some qualifying questions.

Are you talking about including this in new buildings, or retrofitting?
 
2013-05-21 05:30:32 AM
Not trying to rub salt in anyone's wound here, but I was sitting with my girlfriend and watching a newsfeed. It seems pretty much all houses in the path of the tornado are built with wood. I live in Northern Europe and we are used to some weather as well (no big tornadoes though). All our homes and buildings are built either with clay bricks or concrete - to offer proper shelter in e.g. a hurricane, and to keep heat inside during cold winters.

I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?
 
2013-05-21 05:32:44 AM

orbister: WhyteRaven74: Now a thick concrete wall can handle a two by four doing 100 miles an hour, but once you get up past 180, well the concrete will survive but not without some damage. What's more it's gonna get hit by stuff not only more massive but harder than that two by four. The rigidity of concrete will handle the wind speeds, however the brittleness means that it's what the wind is blowing around that will cause it to be compromised.

When you hit the outside of a structure hard, the shock wave can knock bits of the inside ("spalling") which cause damage as they fly around. This is how most anti-tank missiles work; they don;t try to get through the armour, but instead blow chunks off the inside to bounce unhealthily around the occupants.


Tanks have had spall liners since WW2

bedtundy: Medic Zero: WhyteRaven74: Medic Zero: How any building built in Oklahoma can be made out of anything less than concrete

when a tornado as big as this one hits directly it doesn't much matter what a building is made of.

I find that hard to believe. With enough concrete and well designed steel shutters a building should be able to be made tornado proof, even to flying mini-vans. Afterall fortifications have been made to resist VERY heavy artillery fire for more than a century now. It doesn't even have to be all that thick in most places if designed well.

When these things hit they are like atomic bombs, and take out anything and everything in their paths.  It's not like getting shelled in the bunkers along the Normandy coast by battleships (and as I recall those didn't fare too well in some areas).  Tornadoes are VERY powerful, and often unpredictable as to what exactly they will hit, or where.


Most of the bunkers on the Normandy coast had their concrete compromised during construction by French (& other, conscripted) workers.
 
2013-05-21 05:34:12 AM

Evilhippie: I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?


Just fly over the US sometime. You'll get it.

Also, it gets hot... AMAZINGLY hot in that area. 40C? Yep... for weeks sometimes. Concrete holds too much heat, and adobe construction is not very workable for suburban areas.
 
2013-05-21 05:35:30 AM

Evilhippie: Not trying to rub salt in anyone's wound here, but I was sitting with my girlfriend and watching a newsfeed. It seems pretty much all houses in the path of the tornado are built with wood. I live in Northern Europe and we are used to some weather as well (no big tornadoes though). All our homes and buildings are built either with clay bricks or concrete - to offer proper shelter in e.g. a hurricane, and to keep heat inside during cold winters.

I just wonder, why on Earth would you build this many obviously vulnerable wooden homes in an area infamous for its rough weather? Haven't you guys ever heard of The Three Little Pigs?


They're wood frame, covered in brick... For the most part. Some are simply covered in siding. But not many. But even the brick doesn't stand up to the weight/velocity of what gets flung at them in a tornado.
 
2013-05-21 05:36:48 AM
OK City scanners reporting more nasty weather imminent.....
 
2013-05-21 05:39:48 AM

Medic Zero: Maybe make the schools smaller then? Gotta start over anyway...


It's much cheaper to run a few big schools than it is for lots of small schools.
 
2013-05-21 05:40:25 AM
www.news9.com/livestream
 
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