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(KOCO Oklahoma City) NewsFlash Large tornado on ground right now -in- OKC   (koco.com) divider line 1221
    More: NewsFlash, Steve McClain, tornado warning, OKC, Oklahoma, tornadoes  
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15560 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2013 at 4:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-05-20 05:40:15 PM  
meeker tornado north of meeker on ground
 
2013-05-20 05:40:17 PM  

ArtosRC: LasersHurt: I agree with your engineering points, but that's mystical hocus pocus BS.

I'm all ears on how to stop a ten-mile high wall of rotating air.


You don't need to stop the whole thing, just disturb the bottom-most part to lower wind speeds.

Felgraf: LasersHurt: Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

The idea I had was just to disturb the bottom layer of the wind, not stop or disrupt the entire storm.

That is just the bottom layer. That is basically "The bottom of the tornado", especially since I only used 1km wide.

And I vastly, VASTLY underpowered those calculations, since I didn't do rotational kinetic energy... I'll do that when I get home, after dogs have been walked.


Don't put yourself out too much. I can't imagine I'm going to ever spend the time modelling this, if I even have access to the computing power needed.
 
2013-05-20 05:40:21 PM  
Triage set up @ community center. 1 RN and 1 EMT.
 
2013-05-20 05:40:27 PM  

Bontesla: Did I just hear, "3 or 4 horses that need to be put down?" oO


GBB: Oh, they've got 4-5 horses to "put down"?


The twister went through a massive horse farm.  There have been a few shown on TV that look healthy but just as shellshocked as the humans if not more so, but obviously any living ones with busted legs have to be put down.
 
2013-05-20 05:40:32 PM  
On the ground for 30 farking MILES!?!

Holy Christ.

Jesus.

/another one just hit north of Meeker
 
2013-05-20 05:40:37 PM  
The Washington Post re-posted the picture below just now, which somebody tweeted with a statement that it shows a daycare center in Moore...
pbs.twimg.com
 
2013-05-20 05:40:59 PM  
Jesus, the tornado outside of White Bead/Pauls Valley is as massive as the Moore tornado.
 
2013-05-20 05:40:59 PM  

Outrageous Muff: This tornado is rising fears that other musicals may come to life. To prevent this all the hookers in Sagion have been jailed.


All chess players in Bangkok had better go into hiding...
 
2013-05-20 05:41:01 PM  

Almost Everybody Poops: A SECOND TORNADO HAS HIT THE OKLAHOMA.


ok, that was horrible.
/but not too horrible for fark.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:13 PM  
ArtosRC: "This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped."

Neither can hurricanes. But as it turns out, there are man-made structures that we can put in their path that are wildly 'profitable' in reducing storm damage and improving outcomes.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:21 PM  

Di Atribe: zappaisfrank: Before watching the TV coverage of this, I had no idea there was a town in Oklahoma called "Liberal"...

[i5.photobucket.com image 515x455]

Probably because it's in Kansas.


Derp on me! LOL...Still ironic, though.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:22 PM  

LasersHurt: Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

The idea I had was just to disturb the bottom layer of the wind, not stop or disrupt the entire storm.


You're not familiar with big tornado producing storms; are you?

It isn't rare for a single storm to produce more than one tornado. Tornados are chaos incarnate; we can detect when they are likely to form, but, we're still pretty far away from predicting the path those tornados may take. They pick up off the ground and jump miles; they turn, they are completely unpredictable.

/ You'd have to make every single building tornado disruptive for it to be effective
 
2013-05-20 05:41:24 PM  
What's the link for the scanner feed?
 
2013-05-20 05:41:25 PM  

eddievercetti: Aquapope: Jim Bridenstine (R-OK) voted against aid for Hurricane Sandy.  What do you bet he's ALL OVER aid for this?

Shocker.


Well it's different when it happens to YOU, amirite?

Hate those hypocritical motherfarkers. Show some compassion & it comes back to you, assholes.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:29 PM  
Tornado on the ground just north of Ramona heading for Talala. That is just north of my area.

Thinking of all my friends in OKC/Moore. I'm sick over this. Absolutely devastating.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:41 PM  

awalkingecho: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

It seems that entire cities don't even slow them. What do you propose?


decoy trailer parks, away from populated areas, to divert the tornadoes attention

but it might just rile them up more when they realize they've been duped

or we could just tie innocents to stakes in their path to sate the bloodlust of the twisted, raging anemoi at their cold, black hearts
 
2013-05-20 05:41:49 PM  
watching the people search for survivors at the school is very chilling
 
2013-05-20 05:41:53 PM  
New tornado on the ground south of Sparks and NE or Meeker.
 
2013-05-20 05:41:58 PM  

netizencain: do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?


The news is saying basements in OK are rare because the ground is rock, which means you have to use dynomite to blast out a basement.
 
2013-05-20 05:42:05 PM  
I need to get some food...

Keep your heads down, OKC area Farkers.
 
2013-05-20 05:42:19 PM  

iheartscotch: / You'd have to make every single building tornado disruptive for it to be effective


The idea is more like a grid of devices throughout the area permanently in place for constant protection. It's also entirely academic.
 
2013-05-20 05:42:27 PM  

Felgraf: Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

Let's say a tornado is 1km wide, and 1km tall (this one may have been wider? But to simplify the math)

So that's a volume of .785 km^3, or 7.85*10^8 m^3. (note: This is a very rough estimate, and I realize I should TECHNICALLY do rotational kinetic energy, but this is easier and faster)

Assuming normal air density at 20*C and atmospheric pressure (1.2041 kg/m^3), that gives us a mass of 9.46*10^8 kg.

The tornado had a windspeed of 200mph (I think it may have gotten up to 225, someone said?). That's 89.4 meters/second.

Kinetic energy is .5*m*v^2

That gives us a kinetic energy of 3.78*10^12 joules, or 3.78 Terrajoules.

Little Boy released an energy of 67 TJ.

Basically: An *UNDERPOWERED* estimate gives this tornado 1/20th the energy of an atomic bomb.

I should note this is a VASTLY underpowered estimate; I'm not using rotational energy (where I'd use w^2 for the velocity term... where w is the velocity of the wind TIMES THE RADIUS OF THE TORNADO, and where I'd use I instead of m, where the momet of inertia would be 1/3 m r^2, which would scale it up a LOT. I just have to skip out of the lab soon, so I didn't do those extra steps.)


According to some sources I've read, the average thunderstorm releases something on the order of twelve Hiroshima-sized nukes worth of energy every minute.  An  average thunderstorm.  Tornadoes?  I would imagine they would be a bit worse.
 
2013-05-20 05:42:41 PM  

eddievercetti: Why, why do people live in tornado alley?


Sam Kinison told them to move to where the food is.
 
2013-05-20 05:42:43 PM  

LasersHurt: jst3p: LasersHurt: But this idea that tornados are unstoppable, forever, by anything, at all, is ridiculous and I won't have it.

That isn't what you originally asked. Currently we can't build a vertical structure to break up the ground speed of a tornado, because ... we can't.

Well, that's a bit obvious. I guess I should have phrased it more to the effect of "is anyone currently researching the idea of breaking up the ground level winds of a tornado." I can't imagine it's TECHNICALLY impossible, just improbable or uneconomical.


well THAT's totally different.
Yes you can.
basically, one would have to build a sloping ring (think volcano) around a city and then put a dome on top.
as the tornado approaches the slope (example west to east track) air in front of the tornado would be pull down the slope until the vertical twister consumed itself. The result would be the back side to the tornado would  become parallel to the ground, until it reached the slope and the increase of pressure would dissipate it.
At least until it reached the east side of the slope where it would reform*.

*pulled out of my ass
 
2013-05-20 05:42:49 PM  
Anoth tornado forming over Pauls valley
 
2013-05-20 05:43:03 PM  

LasersHurt: mr lawson: LasersHurt: I can't imagine that it wouldn't take some pretty ambitious engineering. But this idea that tornados are unstoppable, forever, by anything, at all, is ridiculous and I won't have it.

i get where you are coming from..i do.
however, the material sciences come into play.
Both the height needed and the mass required to deflected the energy rules all most all material.
after a certain height, even steel can not hold up it's own weight.

I'm only imagining these things being a few hundred to thousand feet. Less than record-breaking skyscrapers, though admittedly we're asking it to take an enormous amount of side-winds. You'd almost need a super-structure to help them strengthen each other, and at that point it's basically a giant dumb dome to kill everyone when it collapses.


Um, no the supercells that spawn tornadoes are 60,000+ ft tall and mountains although they can affect them they don't stop them. I live in an area that's had some bad tornadoes and has mountains.
 
2013-05-20 05:43:06 PM  

LeadFootSpiderMonkey: I dont have TF right now, so I can't post a TFD thread. We have family in Wagoner, Ok, the storms are headed there, I dont think they have a safe place to hunker down, any TFers in the area have a little extra room?????


gave you TF
 
2013-05-20 05:43:11 PM  
LeadFootSpiderMonkey: I dont have TF right now, so I can't post a TFD thread. We have family in Wagoner, Ok, the storms are headed there, I dont think they have a safe place to hunker down, any TFers in the area have a little extra room?????

Reposting in bold for you (I think it should hit the next page).

/Sorry, I'm in GA or else they'd be welcome here.
 
2013-05-20 05:43:13 PM  
I think I may be able to stop this with by going back in time to 1986 and retrieving two Humpback whales.

I am making my calculations at this time...

at this time..


at this time....
 
2013-05-20 05:43:36 PM  
Blowin' 2: Electric Boogaloo
 
2013-05-20 05:43:39 PM  
75 kids in a hallway when it collapsed.
 
2013-05-20 05:43:46 PM  
Fatality @ 1505 Ridgeway
 
2013-05-20 05:43:51 PM  
15 kids of 75 (that we know of were counted in the school) are trapped under debris.
 
2013-05-20 05:43:51 PM  
Orr Farm is destroyed!
 
2013-05-20 05:44:02 PM  
75 kids trapped in debris at the school

I hope CNN is wrong
 
2013-05-20 05:44:10 PM  
75 kids could be buried under the debris at one of the schools

:-(
 
2013-05-20 05:45:01 PM  

Di Atribe: Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's the location. Big blob of cool air comes down from the north, smushes into a blob of moist, warm air from the Gulf. All along that line, you get storms and often tornadoes. That line just often happens to be in OK. I believe it also depends on the location of the jet stream.

I am not a meteorologist.

Watch out, Meeker. Apparently that's where it'shiatting next.

You may not be a meteorologist, but you've got a better handle on it than most people.

/smushes
//smuuuuuuuuuush


Yeah, that's a meteorology term.
 
2013-05-20 05:45:04 PM  

zappaisfrank: Di Atribe: zappaisfrank: Before watching the TV coverage of this, I had no idea there was a town in Oklahoma called "Liberal"...

[i5.photobucket.com image 515x455]

Probably because it's in Kansas.

Derp on me! LOL...Still ironic, though.


Agreed! Still counts!
 
2013-05-20 05:45:20 PM  
That tornado is STILL on the ground.

/headline fail
 
2013-05-20 05:45:28 PM  

megalynn44: netizencain: do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?

The news is saying basements in OK are rare because the ground is rock, which means you have to use dynomite to blast out a basement.


Funny. I am in the underground business and have dug holes 55 ft deep, 100 ft across.  I wonder how these work. ;)i73.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-20 05:45:36 PM  

SomeOkieGirl: Tornado on the ground just north of Ramona heading for Talala. That is just north of my area.

Thinking of all my friends in OKC/Moore. I'm sick over this. Absolutely devastating.


I hope that you are someplace safe, and that it remains that way.
 
2013-05-20 05:45:47 PM  

zappaisfrank: Before watching the TV coverage of this, I had no idea there was a town in Oklahoma called "Liberal"...

[i5.photobucket.com image 515x455]


it's OK where Liberal lies
 
2013-05-20 05:45:56 PM  
The Weather Channel is like, what a terrible tragedy but our ratings are going through the roof.
 
2013-05-20 05:46:11 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Di Atribe: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

Sure. A 1,000 foot building will really do some damage on a 50,000 foot storm. AND put more people in one concentrated area! Great idea.

I know you guys are going nuts on LasersHurt, but I do remember seeing the beginning of a Weather Channel documentary propose the idea.  I can't find any corroborating information on it, though.



You sure that wasn't Avatar: The Last Airbender?
 
2013-05-20 05:46:21 PM  
Tore right through where my father's work and house are located.  Can't get through to him on the phone.  I can't believe the amount of destruction I'm seeing on the live feed.  fark.
 
zez
2013-05-20 05:46:41 PM  

seventypercent: KFOR meteorologist: "This is the worst tornado in the history of the world."


skaheru.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-20 05:46:53 PM  

youmightberight: ohdoublereally: ariseatex: PowerSlacker: ohdoublereally: Dear Mrs. ohdoublereally, here's another frigging reason I don't want to move from San Diego to Oklahoma.

Why would anyone want to do that...ever?

Jobs.  There's a lot of meteorology jobs, both governmental and private, centered around Norman (just a few miles to the south).  That's the only reason I'd ever move to Oklahoma, to work there.

Her folks still live in OK, and there's a cell bearing down on their area. (Ada).

I'm in Ada - I hope we get skipped but we're due for a big one.


I hope so too. Good luck and stay safe so we can have an Ada fark party next time I go back to visit.
 
2013-05-20 05:46:54 PM  
THANK YOU FOR THE TF!!! I am about to post it up, my aunt is in contact with them, we will get them taken care of :) THANK YOU
 
2013-05-20 05:46:57 PM  
God, I cam real close to taking a job in Norman last year, every apartment I priced was in Moore.

/Knocking wood south of the ATL
 
2013-05-20 05:46:57 PM  
I hope he's okay, LoneCrane.
 
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