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(KOCO Oklahoma City) NewsFlash Large tornado on ground right now -in- OKC   (koco.com) divider line 1221
    More: NewsFlash, Steve McClain, tornado warning, OKC, Oklahoma, tornadoes  
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15545 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2013 at 4:03 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2013-05-20 05:34:05 PM

LasersHurt: You only need to disturb the bottom of the rotation. A buffer layer of a few hundred to thousand feet would be enough to protect from the worst damage. It would still be a matter of enormous engineering, but I'm not suggesting stopping the entire tornado,  just breaking up the ground layer.


You are asking to create what amounts to a new mountain range in the nation's heartland. That is not "enormous engineering," but rather impossible engineering. Furthermore, there is no way to "disturb" the rotation. There is too much power from the other, oh, eight miles of vertical rotation to prevent any meaningful disruption. 

This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:12 PM
Some screen-caps from KFOR Channel 4:
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-20 05:34:25 PM

iheartscotch: zappaisfrank: Before watching the TV coverage of this, I had no idea there was a town in Oklahoma called "Liberal"...

See that big black line? That's a state line. Liberal is in Kansas. It's a shiat hole

.

FTFY.

/hopefully these tornadoes don't make it any more of a shiathole than it already is
//get in your damned basements NOW.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:33 PM
Local news on TWC "Pretty sure at least some kids were in the 2 schools hit"  The anchors are looking pale
 
2013-05-20 05:34:42 PM
meeker tornado lowering
 
2013-05-20 05:34:42 PM

Aquapope: Jim Bridenstine (R-OK) voted against aid for Hurricane Sandy.  What do you bet he's ALL OVER aid for this?


He won't be.  He's a tea party guy, so he'll be against federal aid for anything at all.  I also wouldn't put it past him to say this is God's way of showing us we shouldn't have public education

/hate that #%#@er.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:43 PM
Felgraf:

That gives us a kinetic energy of 3.78*10^12 joules, or 3.78 Terrajoules.

I'm rusty on my energy measures; would that be 3.78 TJ per (second/minute/whatever), or for the assumed life of an average tornado?

If the former, then your (excellent, mind you) comparison would put that tornado at 1/20th of Little Boy every (unit of time), since a bomb releases all of its energy relatively instantaneously, making the storm far more powerful.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:44 PM
Reporter, Lance, I think his name on KFOR is losing it on air. Poor guy.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:45 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: No calls or texts are going through, so I've stopped trying. Did get hold of my other sister (she lives a bit away from this area). Her electricity was out, but no damage.

If my other sister still has a house, it probably doesn't have electricity.

The footage of the damaged cars on the highway is troubling. Kinda looks like people got trapped in the path of the tornado as they sat on (I assume) I-35.


Apparently it plowed through a few intersections. There's some horrific images of vehicles that got caught in this.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:50 PM
CNN reporting kids were in the schools
 
2013-05-20 05:34:52 PM

Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

Let's say a tornado is 1km wide, and 1km tall (this one may have been wider? But to simplify the math)

So that's a volume of .785 km^3, or 7.85*10^8 m^3. (note: This is a very rough estimate, and I realize I should TECHNICALLY do rotational kinetic energy, but this is easier and faster)

Assuming normal air density at 20*C and atmospheric pressure (1.2041 kg/m^3), that gives us a mass of 9.46*10^8 kg.

The tornado had a windspeed of 200mph (I think it may have gotten up to 225, someone said?). That's 89.4 meters/second.

Kinetic energy is .5*m*v^2

That gives us a kinetic energy of 3.78*10^12 joules, or 3.78 Terrajoules.

Little Boy released an energy of 67 TJ.

Basically: An *UNDERPOWERED* estimate gives this tornado 1/20th the energy of an atomic bomb.


I should note this is a VASTLY underpowered estimate; I'm not using rotational energy (where I'd use w^2 for the velocity term... where w is the velocity of the wind TIMES THE RADIUS OF THE TORNADO, and where I'd use I instead of m, where the momet of inertia would be 1/3 m r^2, which would scale it up a LOT. I just have to skip out of the lab soon, so I didn't do those extra steps.)
 
2013-05-20 05:35:02 PM
Kids WERE in the Plaza Elementary...
 
2013-05-20 05:35:02 PM

Aquapope: Jim Bridenstine (R-OK) voted against aid for Hurricane Sandy.  What do you bet he's ALL OVER aid for this?


Shocker.
 
2013-05-20 05:35:18 PM

mr lawson: LasersHurt: I can't imagine that it wouldn't take some pretty ambitious engineering. But this idea that tornados are unstoppable, forever, by anything, at all, is ridiculous and I won't have it.

i get where you are coming from..i do.
however, the material sciences come into play.
Both the height needed and the mass required to deflected the energy rules all most all material.
after a certain height, even steel can not hold up it's own weight.


I'm only imagining these things being a few hundred to thousand feet. Less than record-breaking skyscrapers, though admittedly we're asking it to take an enormous amount of side-winds. You'd almost need a super-structure to help them strengthen each other, and at that point it's basically a giant dumb dome to kill everyone when it collapses.
 
2013-05-20 05:36:02 PM
Mother of God...
 
2013-05-20 05:36:08 PM

TommyDeuce: Local news on TWC "Pretty sure at least some kids were in the 2 schools hit"  The anchors are looking pale


I heard that, as well. One school sounds like it's been evacuated. . . huge gas leak.
I haven't heard much about the other school.
 
2013-05-20 05:36:11 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-20 05:36:12 PM

ArtosRC: This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped.


I agree with your engineering points, but that's mystical hocus pocus BS.
 
2013-05-20 05:36:22 PM

Aquapope: Jim Bridenstine (R-OK) voted against aid for Hurricane Sandy.  What do you bet he's ALL OVER aid for this?

 
2013-05-20 05:36:35 PM

soporific: Tornado on the ground.


I'm not a part of this storm system
Welcome to the real world, jackass

\MAN!
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-05-20 05:36:44 PM

Bontesla: GBB: Anyone listenting to the scanner, Signal-7 is a "dead body" according to most codebooks.   And they are talking about them on OKC scanner.

Thank you. I heard "Signal-7" in conjunction with a downed building. No clue what that meant.


Agencies have no obligation to use standardized codes and can make up definitions how they see fit.  But, I could tell by his voice that this is what he meant.  I've heard it before.
 
2013-05-20 05:37:13 PM
Kids WERE in the schools? So did David Copperfield vanished them outside OK?
 
2013-05-20 05:37:17 PM

LasersHurt: ArtosRC: This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped.

I agree with your engineering points, but that's mystical hocus pocus BS.


There are F-5 rated storm shelters, but I think the original post asked if there was a way to build something to stop/weaken the tornado itself.  I doubt that....
 
2013-05-20 05:37:28 PM

mzkitty901: CNN reporting kids were in the schools


grain of salt coming from CNN
 
2013-05-20 05:37:32 PM
Did I just hear, "3 or 4 horses that need to be put down?" oO
 
GBB [TotalFark]
2013-05-20 05:37:35 PM
Oh, they've got 4-5 horses to "put down"?
 
2013-05-20 05:37:43 PM
I wonder how a hobbit hole would stand up to a tornado?
 
2013-05-20 05:37:44 PM

LasersHurt: I agree with your engineering points, but that's mystical hocus pocus BS.


I'm all ears on how to stop a ten-mile high wall of rotating air.


Pauls Valley about to be hit by another grinding monster.
 
2013-05-20 05:37:46 PM
do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?
 
2013-05-20 05:38:11 PM
Gas station is absolutely leveled, searching for survivors in the debris.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:14 PM
Tornadoes in central Oklahoma?

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-20 05:38:14 PM

GBB: Oh, they've got 4-5 horses to "put down"?


We're listening to the same station.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:14 PM

LasersHurt: Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

The idea I had was just to disturb the bottom layer of the wind, not stop or disrupt the entire storm.


That is just the bottom layer. That is basically "The bottom of the tornado", especially since I only used 1km wide.

And I vastly, VASTLY underpowered those calculations, since I didn't do rotational kinetic energy... I'll do that when I get home, after dogs have been walked.

JayCab: Felgraf:

That gives us a kinetic energy of 3.78*10^12 joules, or 3.78 Terrajoules.

I'm rusty on my energy measures; would that be 3.78 TJ per (second/minute/whatever), or for the assumed life of an average tornado?

If the former, then your (excellent, mind you) comparison would put that tornado at 1/20th of Little Boy every (unit of time), since a bomb releases all of its energy relatively instantaneously, making the storm far more powerful.


That's just the energy contained in the tornado at a snapshot in time, yeah. I'd have to think about how to properly compare the power exherted by a tornado (Which is Energy/Second). though Little Boy, I think, released all it's energy over less than a second? So that would get tricky and I admit I am feeling a tetch lazy.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:17 PM
Stay safe, OK farkers.  And those in neighboring states.  Gonna be an ugly couple of days.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:27 PM
3rd graders were being pulled (alive) from the wreckage of Plaza Elementary, so says the TV anchors.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:41 PM
Former gas station with rescue attempts under the rubbl4e

i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-20 05:38:45 PM

netizencain: do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?


One of the schools apparently had a cellar, but IIRC not all the children were in it.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:50 PM

LasersHurt: ArtosRC: This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped.

I agree with your engineering points, but that's mystical hocus pocus BS.


Shh, you'll anger the gods.
 
2013-05-20 05:38:53 PM

netizencain: do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?


No
 
2013-05-20 05:39:00 PM

Mock26: I wonder how a hobbit hole would stand up to a tornado?


A mound of dirt? Depends on the intensity of the tornado. EF3, EF4, EF5? Don't count on it.
 
2013-05-20 05:39:01 PM
I guess this is where a Daycare once stood.
pbs.twimg.com
https://twitter.com/StormCoker/status/336589374110179329/photo/1
 
2013-05-20 05:39:03 PM
pauls valley people get in your safe rooms.
 
2013-05-20 05:39:19 PM

ArtosRC: LasersHurt: You only need to disturb the bottom of the rotation. A buffer layer of a few hundred to thousand feet would be enough to protect from the worst damage. It would still be a matter of enormous engineering, but I'm not suggesting stopping the entire tornado,  just breaking up the ground layer.

You are asking to create what amounts to a new mountain range in the nation's heartland. That is not "enormous engineering," but rather impossible engineering. Furthermore, there is no way to "disturb" the rotation. There is too much power from the other, oh, eight miles of vertical rotation to prevent any meaningful disruption. 

This is a force of nature. It cannot be stopped.


Plus, if the tornado hits the structure, you've got a massive amount of debris flying through the air. If it's a contest of tornado vs. wall, my money is on the tornado.
 
2013-05-20 05:39:45 PM

netizencain: do the elementary schools have basements in OKC?


I thought the water table was too high in most of OK to be able to make basements. Or at least lasting basements.
 
2013-05-20 05:39:46 PM
I dont have TF right now, so I can't post a TFD thread. We have family in Wagoner, Ok, the storms are headed there, I dont think they have a safe place to hunker down, any TFers in the area have a little extra room?????
 
2013-05-20 05:39:47 PM

Felgraf: Felgraf: LasersHurt: Can't we put up some kind of vertical structures to break up the ground speeds of tornados? I've seen all manner of things designed to break up waves, etc - surely a similar principle could be used to protect residential areas?

I think the kinetic energy just makes that impossible.

Let's say a tornado is 1km wide, and 1km tall (this one may have been wider? But to simplify the math)

So that's a volume of .785 km^3, or 7.85*10^8 m^3. (note: This is a very rough estimate, and I realize I should TECHNICALLY do rotational kinetic energy, but this is easier and faster)

Assuming normal air density at 20*C and atmospheric pressure (1.2041 kg/m^3), that gives us a mass of 9.46*10^8 kg.

The tornado had a windspeed of 200mph (I think it may have gotten up to 225, someone said?). That's 89.4 meters/second.

Kinetic energy is .5*m*v^2

That gives us a kinetic energy of 3.78*10^12 joules, or 3.78 Terrajoules.

Little Boy released an energy of 67 TJ.

Basically: An *UNDERPOWERED* estimate gives this tornado 1/20th the energy of an atomic bomb.

I should note this is a VASTLY underpowered estimate; I'm not using rotational energy (where I'd use w^2 for the velocity term... where w is the velocity of the wind TIMES THE RADIUS OF THE TORNADO, and where I'd use I instead of m, where the momet of inertia would be 1/3 m r^2, which would scale it up a LOT. I just have to skip out of the lab soon, so I didn't do those extra steps.)


But we don't need to move the entire air mass.  A tornado is inherently very unstable--it plows along for a few minutes to an hour and then *poof*, it's gone.  All you would have to do is nudge it into dissipating earlier than it would otherwise.  This is all academic of course.
 
2013-05-20 05:39:52 PM
Large tornado on ground right now -in- OKC

25.media.tumblr.comspa.fotolog.com
 
2013-05-20 05:40:01 PM
This tornado is rising fears that other musicals may come to life. To prevent this all the hookers in Sagion have been jailed.
 
2013-05-20 05:40:09 PM

Theory Of Null: I guess this is where a Daycare once stood.
[pbs.twimg.com image 850x637]
https://twitter.com/StormCoker/status/336589374110179329/photo/1


shiat
 
2013-05-20 05:40:15 PM
A SECOND TORNADO HAS HIT THE OKLAHOMA.
 
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