DjangoStonereaver: Back in the original series, in THE FIVE DOCTORS ISTR, theyoffered the Master a new course of regenerations if he would do their bidding
PartTimeBuddha: The trust, the love, the rivalry and the betrayals.
t3knomanser: We don't need to see the Time War to see those- to the contrary, it's far more interesting to see the effects. Imagine if somebody went back and tried to make a trilogy that was the origin story of a major character like Darth Vader, covering every angstrom of his growth from a promising child, into a Jedi, and eventually into Darth Vader. It'd be terrible, because everything important was covered with a single line uttered by Obi Wan.
PartTimeBuddha: There's nothing wrong with the idea of a Vader-genesis story
t3knomanser: PartTimeBuddha: There's nothing wrong with the idea of a Vader-genesis storyI disagree, deeply. There was nothing to add to the character of Darth Vader. We already knew everything we needed to know. Just like with the Time War. We already know everything important about the Time War. Retreading it is just that- retreading a story we already know. It's not a story that needs to be told. It won't tell us anything new about the Doctor. It won't tell us anything we don't already know about the Time Lords, or the Daleks. It won't even tell us anything we don't already know about the Time War, really- it was horrible, billions died, and the Doctor finished it in the most tragic and drastic way. We knew everything important in 2005.
PartTimeBuddha: A story is a process of character interactions and changes.
PartTimeBuddha: left not knowing the specific cost to The Doctor of his actions
Skwrl: the "Fall of the 11th" is a future (from our point of view) event, not "falling from orbit".
Capital A: Can we all just admit that this show has become a convoluted mess? I really liked Matt Smith's first series but it's been all downhill after that for me.
That Reilly Monster: It's a messy theory but would also explain why the Doctor has been dedicating himself to efforts to erase that name from history.
PartTimeBuddha: Genuine question - is that what he's been doing?
t3knomanser: HindiDiscoMonster: only if they use the real theme music, not this bastardized shiat they play now... though i would accept the theme from when Tennant was the doctor as well.Aside from that stupid riff in the opening bars, the current theme is far closer to what the theme should sound like than the Tennant-era theme. I've never liked the orchestral style theme- the "Doctor Who" theme should never sound like it's being played by instruments- that's what makes the original theme so great. It was hacked together by people armed with nothing more than signal generators and reel-to-reel tape recorders.
PartTimeBuddha: t3knomanser: The story of the Time War should involve weapons and ideas that are just incomprehensible to mere mortals. Let's say the Daleks have conquered a planet. In the Time War, how would you unconquer it? Why, you'd go back in time, and erase the Daleks who were part of the invasion force from history. Or you'd seed the planet with superweapons that could be used to pry them off the planet. Or, and this is probably what usually ended up happening- you'd plant an extremely destructive bomb before the planet even forms. It would lie dormant for billions of years, until the Daleks committed their forces to conquering the planet- and then you'd blow up the entire thing.You misunderstand storytelling.The story of the Time War would be the sequence of events which lead up to The Doctor initiating the Moment. The trust, the love, the rivalry and the betrayals. The return of Rasslion, the passion and necessity of engaging in the war in the first place, the leverage over The Doctor as he works and struggles to avoid making the final, awful decision to seal off his own race from the Universe against a background of moribund and corrupt societies.Stories are personal journeys -- not just slapping one's Sonic Screwdriver on the table and ordering the biatch to gobble it up.(Well. Depending.)
Rwa2play: I've seen the entire War Games story and lord, that was long and arduous.
PizzaJedi81: Son of Thunder: Come on, how hard would it be to write her out of the computer? Fix up her body or clone her a new one, and download her mind back into it. Why didn't she tell everyone? Because "spoilers".My theory on Clara was that River was going to use her as a way out of the Library. Not quite sure what I had thought, but it made sense at the time.Alcohol may have been involved.
Great Janitor: Sergeant Grumbles: Great Janitor: Or...The Doctor, thanks to the fact that the Time Lords can trade, buy and sell regenerations the Doctor may still have twenty or more regenerations remaining.River Song did give the Doctor all of her remaining regenerations.Also heard that Timelords' regenerations were restored for use in the Time War.Also heard that while 13 regens is standard for Timelords, that isn't necessarily a hard limit, just a taboo, custom or law that Timelords do not break. It quite possible that without Gallifrey, whatever physical or cultural limitations were placed on regenerations is gone.In Classic Who, the Master was always after the Doctor's remaining lives, all the way up to the 8th Doctor movie. In that movie, the voice over explains that Time Lords are limited to 13 lives and that the Master had used up his, but the Master doesn't play by the rules. And after being cremated via execution, the Master regenerates into a (from what I read on another site) Skaro Serpent and hijacks a human body. This makes regeneration a bit more muddled. If there is no limit, just some taboo, then why would the Master, a renegade Time Lord, seek out to steal regenerations? And how was he able to regenerate in the Who movie if he had been reduced to ash? "Turn Left" has the Doctor drowning and unable to regenerate but the Master can pull it off without a body??? Hell, even in that movie its explained that the Doctor almost died because the drugs used almost inhibited the regeneration process. Die during heart surgery: possibly no regeneration. Killed and cremated and locked in a box: regeneration into nothing higher than a snake.
Kiler: The Doctor's name is D'Brickashaw.
PizzaJedi81: gingerjet: And not chasing actors in lizard costumes every week.Oh, come now...you know that you want some good lizard costume action every once in a while. Zome Zygons (YAY, 50th Anniversary!), a few Silurians, maybe an Axonite?
Son of Thunder: The entire conceit that people from different time periods could someone merge their consciousnesses is dodgy enough, but when you throw in the fact that the River that appeared was the River trapped in the Library, it gets even more convoluted. Add to that the idea that The Doctor could still somehow see (and kiss) River at the end and logically the entire thing doesn't make a damn bit of senseCome on, how hard would it be to write her out of the computer? Fix up her body or clone her a new one, and download her mind back into it. Why didn't she tell everyone? Because "spoilers".
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