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(Time)   "Dude that's harsh, why is it always about the money? How much is my legal marijuana habit going to cost me again?"   (business.time.com) divider line 86
    More: Interesting, marijuana legalization, habits  
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9748 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2013 at 9:20 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-20 11:06:42 AM  

2chris2: This is nonsense.

If marijuana were completely legal, it would sell for no more than $10 per ounce, and probably less than that.  Look at the price of tobacco or cinnamon or oregano or other such spices which would be similiarly expensive to produce.  Marijuana only costs hundreds of dollars per ounce because it's illegal.


No, marijuana costs hundreds of dollars an ounce because that's what the market says it's worth. Its legality is a factor in that, but not the only one.

If no one was willing to pay more than $10 an ounce, that would be how much marijuana cost. Well, that would be how much it theoretically cost, anyway. At that price, the fact that it's illegal would deter almost everyone from getting involved in the business, and supply would be almost non-existent.

Supply-side may set a price floor, but demand will set a price ceiling.
 
2013-05-20 11:17:40 AM  

Gonz: 2chris2: This is nonsense.

If marijuana were completely legal, it would sell for no more than $10 per ounce, and probably less than that.  Look at the price of tobacco or cinnamon or oregano or other such spices which would be similiarly expensive to produce.  Marijuana only costs hundreds of dollars per ounce because it's illegal.

No, marijuana costs hundreds of dollars an ounce because that's what the market says it's worth. Its legality is a factor in that, but not the only one.

If no one was willing to pay more than $10 an ounce, that would be how much marijuana cost. Well, that would be how much it theoretically cost, anyway. At that price, the fact that it's illegal would deter almost everyone from getting involved in the business, and supply would be almost non-existent.

Supply-side may set a price floor, but demand will set a price ceiling.


My point is that, given the demand for marijuana, and the cost of producing it, if it were legal, it would sell for less than $10 per ounce.  A decent sized farm could produce marijuana for a few dollars per ounce at most.  But right now, everyone involved is risking being arrested and having everything seized, so consumers pay a lot of money.
 
2013-05-20 11:18:59 AM  

hasty ambush: One of the strongests arguments for legalizing the stupid stuff was the potential tax revenue so quit biatchin and pay up-it's patriotic. Unless you are opposed to roads, public schools and emergency services and desire a Somalian utopia.


The tax issue was a secondary reason (though still a good one). The primary money bit is how much would be saved on people/time/equipment since you are no longer rounding up, trying, and incarcerating people for the possession of a ... well... weed.

Call me silly or foolish, but if you could guarantee me a place that I could go without being hassled or arrested and buy some good mids for $50 a quarter then HURRY UP AND TAKE MY FARKING MONEYS!

/and beware of the cantaloupe haze
//it cheated and sucker-punched me
///at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it
////or I will as soon as I stop sticking to the sofa
 
2013-05-20 11:34:11 AM  

Gonz: kindms: Your habit is going to cost you probably what it costs now unless you are gonna grow it yourself. That is where the big savings is going to come from. Folks who would never risk their home now to seizure would possibly be inclined to setup a small garden.

If you think there's a cost savings possible with gardening- especially quality gardening- you're deceiving yourself. It's an expensive habit, especially at first. Just getting things established above "throw a seed in the ground and see what happens" gets pricey. Quickly. And that's before you try and do things like maintain optimal soil pH.

I grow peppers, not pot, but I know I'd be much better off financially going to a store to but my individual peppers. They can take advantages of economies of scale to lower their overall price. I like growing my own, and it's satisfying to nom on something you raised from a seed... but it's tough to argue that it's saving me money in any way.


Don't you think over the long run you'll save money, even considering if you need to buy some extra soil, fertilizer each year?  I just invested a lot to set up a second bed in my yard.  I spent several hundred bucks on stuff but considering produce prices, I figure I might earn that back even this year if everything grows well.  In future years, I expect to spend under $50 to maintain each bed between seeds, soil, starters and whatnot and you can get hundreds of bucks worth of produce.  Hell I planted a lot of peppers and I might get my money back just on those.  I am probably being optimistic since I'm only on year two.  Plus, this is another hobby for me so I'm happy to spend a little extra money on something that I don't strictly need (fancy cedar for raised bed instead of cheap lumber at hardware store).  I was actually just reading that small scale organic gardening is more efficient and cheaper than agro-biz.  The use more energy in fuel than the food energy they provide.  Using manual labor to do everything takes away that cost.  Of course if you factor that in and assign a wage to yourself for that labor you aren't beating them.  But if you say "this is a chore I need to do to provide good eats for myself" then I think you're beating the pants off them.

/my grandma has had a huge garden for years and it doesn't cost her much at all aside from seeds.  She has her owned canned veggies all year - more than she can eat
//I hope I can try to can some stuff this year.  tomatoes, jalapenos, pickles
///need to setup some irrigation and consider collecting rain water
 
2013-05-20 11:38:34 AM  

2chris2: My point is that, given the demand for marijuana, and the cost of producing it, if it were legal, it would sell for less than $10 per ounce.  A decent sized farm could produce marijuana for a few dollars per ounce at most.


You're confusing two totally different issues. OK, "confusing" is a harsh word. Let me phrase it differently:

On the supply side, if marijuana was totally legal, it could be produced more cheaply. I don't have a hard number for that, but for the sake of simplicity, let's go with your $10 an ounce. That number doesn't really matter, so no need to split hairs on the point.

The other side of the chart os demand. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned $300 an ounce. Let's assume- again, for the sake of simplicity- that that's the current market price. Again, the actual number itself doesn't matter as much as the concept.

Now, you and I are both farmers. We both grow legal weed. It costs us $10 an ounce to produce our weed, and the current market price is $300 an ounce. We're competing for a finite amount of pothead dollars, and we both have the overall goal of maximizing profits. We've got some secondary goals as well, like avoiding maintaining too large an inventory and taking into account the consumer's preference for "Farm-Fresh dope".

When you start to sell your weed, what price will you try to set? $10, and you break even. $300, and the market's current demand nets you $290 profit an ounce. However, price it too high, and I'll undercut you. Price it too low, and you're leaving revenue on the table. We'd probably end up somewhere in the middle, in the range of about $160/ oz. The consumer would be happy- they're "saving" $140 an ounce. We'd be happy- we're making our nice profit of $150/ oz (which gets cut when you start considering our other expenses... but that's a whole new level of complexity). It would balance out.
 
2013-05-20 11:48:52 AM  
They should just sell us a damn license every year to grow our own and be done with it.

The money is what it always was about.
 
2013-05-20 11:51:14 AM  

Gonz: 2chris2: My point is that, given the demand for marijuana, and the cost of producing it, if it were legal, it would sell for less than $10 per ounce.  A decent sized farm could produce marijuana for a few dollars per ounce at most.

You're confusing two totally different issues. OK, "confusing" is a harsh word. Let me phrase it differently:

On the supply side, if marijuana was totally legal, it could be produced more cheaply. I don't have a hard number for that, but for the sake of simplicity, let's go with your $10 an ounce. That number doesn't really matter, so no need to split hairs on the point.

The other side of the chart os demand. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned $300 an ounce. Let's assume- again, for the sake of simplicity- that that's the current market price. Again, the actual number itself doesn't matter as much as the concept.

Now, you and I are both farmers. We both grow legal weed. It costs us $10 an ounce to produce our weed, and the current market price is $300 an ounce. We're competing for a finite amount of pothead dollars, and we both have the overall goal of maximizing profits. We've got some secondary goals as well, like avoiding maintaining too large an inventory and taking into account the consumer's preference for "Farm-Fresh dope".

When you start to sell your weed, what price will you try to set? $10, and you break even. $300, and the market's current demand nets you $290 profit an ounce. However, price it too high, and I'll undercut you. Price it too low, and you're leaving revenue on the table. We'd probably end up somewhere in the middle, in the range of about $160/ oz. The consumer would be happy- they're "saving" $140 an ounce. We'd be happy- we're making our nice profit of $150/ oz (which gets cut when you start considering our other expenses... but that's a whole new level of complexity). It would balance out.


Yes, and then two more farmers would spring up and undercut us both and they'd be making huge profits selling it for $100 per ounce, and we'd have to lower our prices, and then more farmers start selling it for $75 per ounce, and everyone lowers their prices, and so on, until finally the price is not much more than the cost of producing and distributing it.  Capitalism leads to low prices.
 
2013-05-20 11:54:50 AM  
Legalization has always been a good idea, but we weren't under the illusion that the tax man and legislators at all levels weren't going to get their fingers in the pie, were we? Look at how alcohol has been handled since the repeal of prohibition.

/lives in a "Liquor Commission" controlled state - bitter
 
2013-05-20 11:59:29 AM  
Pot heads discussing economics is as funny as meth heads discussing biochemistry.
 
2013-05-20 12:04:51 PM  
1-2 one-hitters is enough to knock down the neck pain without the existential crisis.  Ain't nobody making a lot off this motherfarker.
 
2013-05-20 12:47:36 PM  
I see the math has been done, yeah $11 a week, sign me up.

/c'mon TX, we can do it!
 
2013-05-20 12:49:29 PM  
All TFA is telling me is that legal weed will cost me WAY, WAY less than what I'm currently spending.
 
2013-05-20 12:54:26 PM  

PonceAlyosha: GanjSmokr: JonnyG: 3.5oz per year? That's not a pot smoker - that's the "i only smoke when I drink" friend.

Yea, if 3.5 oz annually is considered average, I'm definitely an outlier.

I suspect that "average" is the amount of pot smoked in the state divided by the number of adults, or even just the population. It's news math, it's not scientifically rigorous.


If you had read the article, you'd know that your suspicion is wrong.
 
2013-05-20 01:14:44 PM  

2chris2: Gonz: 2chris2: ...Capitalism leads to low prices ...


Yet the costs of cars keeps rising, as does gas, as does anything else people think they "need." Cigarettes and booze are a good example of this. Prices keep creeping upwards and they'll start at what people were used to paying and toss on taxes, passing the "savings" on to the consumer. They'll charge whatever they can force the consumer to pay. This "capitalism" you speak of isn't a miracle cure, nor is it a consumer protection.
 
2013-05-20 01:22:22 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-20 01:52:23 PM  

PonceAlyosha: I suspect that "average" is the amount of pot smoked in the state divided by the number of adults, or even just the population. It's news math, it's not scientifically rigorous.


There was so many problems with that article I stopped bothering to count, but it did post how many adults were estimated to smoke each year.  642,772, or 12.5% of the population.

Given the posts here, that seems to include those that are expected to smoke it 1-2 times a year.

2chris2: until finally the price is not much more than the cost of producing and distributing it. Capitalism leads to low prices.


Only modification to this I'd make is whether or not the existing farmers are able to leverage their experience to differentiate their product in some way - 'Finest Weed since 1999'; 'Nice mint aftertaste', whatever.

Oh, and through experience and depreciated assets being able to produce it cheaper than the new guys.  But yeah, logically speaking if you can make it for $10/pound with a couple year's experience, there should be enough competition that it's not going to retail for much more than $30/pound*.

*For most food in the USA, retail price is multiple times that of what the farm sells it for.
 
2013-05-20 01:58:13 PM  
"It took about 150 years, starting with a Bill of Rights that reserved to the states and the people all powers not explicitly delegated to the federal government, to produce a Supreme Court willing to rule that growing corn to feed to your own hogs is interstate commerce and can be regulated by Congress." -- David Friedman, THE MACHINERY OF FREEDOM (p.146)

www.eastvalleynewsnet.com
 
2013-05-20 02:04:58 PM  
$185 per ounce

I'm getting ripped off.
 
2013-05-20 02:55:43 PM  

DoughyGuy: he career path I chose out here (machinist) kind of frowns upon drug use.


Alcohol is a drug.

/just sayin
 
2013-05-20 03:09:28 PM  

Pixel_Jockey: What I don't get is if I'm paying $300 an ounce from the down the street, why would I want to pay more for that same ounce because of taxes. I understand it could be fun to occasionally go to the pot store to try new things, but will legalizing really drive away the black market? And why would the grower want to start paying taxes and dealing with regulators?


If people are willing to spend $300 an ounce, maybe I should open a business.

/Colorado resident
 
2013-05-20 03:21:26 PM  

argylez: DoughyGuy: he career path I chose out here (machinist) kind of frowns upon drug use.

Alcohol is a drug.

/just sayin


Yeah, but as long as you don't need to sip from a flask all day to keep from getting the shakes no one cares.

But fark you if you smoked weed on your time off a month ago.  That shiat is some seriousness.
 
2013-05-20 03:43:38 PM  

Gonz: kindms: Your habit is going to cost you probably what it costs now unless you are gonna grow it yourself. That is where the big savings is going to come from. Folks who would never risk their home now to seizure would possibly be inclined to setup a small garden.

If you think there's a cost savings possible with gardening- especially quality gardening- you're deceiving yourself. It's an expensive habit, especially at first. Just getting things established above "throw a seed in the ground and see what happens" gets pricey. Quickly. And that's before you try and do things like maintain optimal soil pH.

I grow peppers, not pot, but I know I'd be much better off financially going to a store to but my individual peppers. They can take advantages of economies of scale to lower their overall price. I like growing my own, and it's satisfying to nom on something you raised from a seed... but it's tough to argue that it's saving me money in any way.


That's because peppers don't sell for $250-$300 per ounce.  If they did, you would notice a significant savings.  I bought a decent (not commercial by any means) set-up used for about $250, and 10 weeks later I had 8 ounces of medical-quality buds.  It is not only a money-saver, but can can quickly become a profitable business.

/I only grow for myself and my fiance
//We are both medical MJ cardholders
 
2013-05-20 03:46:01 PM  

lewismarktwo: argylez: DoughyGuy: he career path I chose out here (machinist) kind of frowns upon drug use.

Alcohol is a drug.

/just sayin

Yeah, but as long as you don't need to sip from a flask all day to keep from getting the shakes no one cares.

But fark you if you smoked weed on your time off a month ago.  That shiat is some seriousness.


1/10?  Either way, thanks for the lulz
 
2013-05-20 03:51:32 PM  

ReverendJynxed: 2chris2: Gonz: 2chris2: ...Capitalism leads to low prices ...

Yet the costs of cars keeps rising, as does gas, as does anything else people think they "need." Cigarettes and booze are a good example of this. Prices keep creeping upwards and they'll start at what people were used to paying and toss on taxes, passing the "savings" on to the consumer. They'll charge whatever they can force the consumer to pay. This "capitalism" you speak of isn't a miracle cure, nor is it a consumer protection.


That is inflation, and is completely independent of supply/demand.

/Are you a COMMIE??
 
2013-05-20 03:57:03 PM  

argylez: lewismarktwo: argylez: DoughyGuy: he career path I chose out here (machinist) kind of frowns upon drug use.

Alcohol is a drug.

/just sayin

Yeah, but as long as you don't need to sip from a flask all day to keep from getting the shakes no one cares.

But fark you if you smoked weed on your time off a month ago.  That shiat is some seriousness.

1/10?  Either way, thanks for the lulz


Are you insinuating that alcohol isn't a drug?
 
2013-05-20 04:00:42 PM  

SmokinTrees: argylez: lewismarktwo: argylez: DoughyGuy: he career path I chose out here (machinist) kind of frowns upon drug use.

Alcohol is a drug.

/just sayin

Yeah, but as long as you don't need to sip from a flask all day to keep from getting the shakes no one cares.

But fark you if you smoked weed on your time off a month ago.  That shiat is some seriousness.

1/10?  Either way, thanks for the lulz

Are you insinuating that alcohol isn't a drug?


Well, it's not one of those "bad" drugs that makes the black jazz musicians rape all the white women they can find.  That's what matters.
 
2013-05-20 05:52:15 PM  

DoughyGuy: I used to spend upwards of $2000 a year on weed, so this doesn't seem like that big a deal. Of course that estimate is based on about $40 per 1/8th every week for a year, so it would probably be double their estimate for me in a year.


You must have been constantly stoned.

But comparing to booze, you'd have a hard time getting a DUI if you went out and only spent $40 a week on booze and drank more than one night.
 
2013-05-20 06:36:11 PM  

illegal.tender: xanadian: About $12.50 a week?  That's less than my booze habit.  Maybe I should switch.

I spend three times that PER BOTTLE.

https://www.beerworldstore.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&f ly page=flypage.tpl&product_id=978&category_id=53&vmcchk=1&option=com_vir tuemart&Itemid=29

I also tend to not be able to see straight.


That seems expensive.

Let's see, $38,99 is €30.23. According to the website of the chain of liquor stores with a branch near my house I'd pay €5,49 for 75cl, or €10,98 for an equal amount of Duvel.

Is all beer that expensive in the US? A mid range, every day, normal beer from the supermarket costs about €10 (about US$13) for 24 bottles of 30cl (1.98 gallon total). How much is that in the US?
 
2013-05-20 06:46:49 PM  

JonnyG: 3.5oz per year? That's not a pot smoker - that's the "i only smoke when I drink" friend.


That's is not a COLLEGE pot smoker. Most habitual users are much more responsible than that though.

College was crazy times man.

To Gonz: Yeah, but the meticulous gardening is so much fun! I mean...I would assume it is.

/crazy times, man.
 
2013-05-20 07:45:38 PM  
This is what's going to happen with MJ legalization, the government will tax it to the point that it actually costs the cop math street value to purchase.
 
2013-05-20 09:40:31 PM  

pedobearapproved: DoughyGuy: I used to spend upwards of $2000 a year on weed, so this doesn't seem like that big a deal. Of course that estimate is based on about $40 per 1/8th every week for a year, so it would probably be double their estimate for me in a year.

You must have been constantly stoned.


1/8 a week is a half gram per day. If you like a fat joint before bedtime, you'll get there.
 
2013-05-20 09:41:30 PM  

fredbox: This is what's going to happen with MJ legalization, the government will tax it to the point that it actually costs the cop math street value to purchase.


What do you mean by "[t]his"? Do you mean what the article says? Because, if you look at the article and you are capable of reading, you would see that it says that legal weed will be cheaper.
 
2013-05-20 10:41:44 PM  

DerAppie: illegal.tender: xanadian: About $12.50 a week?  That's less than my booze habit.  Maybe I should switch.

I spend three times that PER BOTTLE.

https://www.beerworldstore.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&f ly page=flypage.tpl&product_id=978&category_id=53&vmcchk=1&option=com_vir tuemart&Itemid=29

I also tend to not be able to see straight.

That seems expensive.

Let's see, $38,99 is €30.23. According to the website of the chain of liquor stores with a branch near my house I'd pay €5,49 for 75cl, or €10,98 for an equal amount of Duvel.

Is all beer that expensive in the US? A mid range, every day, normal beer from the supermarket costs about €10 (about US$13) for 24 bottles of 30cl (1.98 gallon total). How much is that in the US?


Local grocery store has a 24 pack of Budweiser (cans) for $17.50 right now. Think the cans are 354 mL each IIRC. Roughly 8.5 liters for 13.59 ... but it is Bud. If you want something better it'll cost more.
 
2013-05-20 11:47:59 PM  
3.5 ounces a year?  WTF?!!!  That's hilarious!  You can expect more like over 12 ounces a year.
 
2013-05-21 02:00:43 AM  
If you pay for it here in Humboldt County, you're doing it wrong.

I get so much for free I give it away to friends.
 
2013-05-21 02:18:21 AM  

Asphyxium: 3.5 ounces a year?  WTF?!!!  That's hilarious!  You can expect more like over 12 ounces a year.


If they expect the majority to only puff once or twice a year, it'd totally skew the average AND median away from 'regular' users.

Think of the types who only smoke a cigar once a month or so with a fine cognac, then you have people who go through 3 packs a day.
 
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