If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(LA Times)   New study shows that the poor are more concentrated in suburban, not urban, areas   (latimes.com) divider line 77
    More: Interesting, suburbanites, urban areas, war on poverty, social services  
•       •       •

2479 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2013 at 8:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



77 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-05-20 08:27:19 AM  
Hm. That can't be good for property values in suburbia. Hopefully we'll start to see various homeowners associations begin to write strict anti-poverty clauses into their bylaws to address this very serious problem. They can set up canvassing tables outside Trader Joe's as a start, maybe hit the happy hour deck scene at Joe's Crab Shack or Buffalo Billiards. I'd say Harris Teeter's, but who shops there now that the new Wegman's has opened, right? I mean, seriously.
 
2013-05-20 08:31:12 AM  
More poor live in suburbs than in urban areas, research showsBut cities still have a bigger percentage,

Oh. Okay.
 
2013-05-20 08:32:13 AM  
forced him to cut back on his hours as a golf course gardener

Yes, because obviously as a gold course gardener you were raking in the dough at obscene levels which is why you signed that adjustable rate mortgage for your 400k home out in the stick that you have to drive 60 minutes to.
 
2013-05-20 08:39:25 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: forced him to cut back on his hours as a golf course gardener

Yes, because obviously as a gold course gardener you were raking in the dough at obscene levels which is why you signed that adjustable rate mortgage for your 400k home out in the stick that you have to drive 60 minutes to.


The head gardener at a golf course normally makes around $80k. If you aren't the person mowing the law you actually make a decent amount of money.
 
2013-05-20 08:41:01 AM  
Not a problem! Once we get that new light rail finished, they'll all be able to ride downtown and get at the rich shoppers to assault and rob in no time.
 
2013-05-20 08:41:15 AM  

Carth: IdBeCrazyIf: forced him to cut back on his hours as a golf course gardener

Yes, because obviously as a gold course gardener you were raking in the dough at obscene levels which is why you signed that adjustable rate mortgage for your 400k home out in the stick that you have to drive 60 minutes to.

The head gardener at a golf course normally makes around $80k. If you aren't the person mowing the law you actually make a decent amount of money.


At Augusta maybe. At the North Piddleton Kountry Klub, not so much.
 
2013-05-20 08:41:44 AM  

Carth: IdBeCrazyIf: forced him to cut back on his hours as a golf course gardener

Yes, because obviously as a gold course gardener you were raking in the dough at obscene levels which is why you signed that adjustable rate mortgage for your 400k home out in the stick that you have to drive 60 minutes to.

The head gardener at a golf course normally makes around $80k. If you aren't the person mowing the law you actually make a decent amount of money.


*submits application*
 
2013-05-20 08:42:52 AM  
In the past year, I've seen panhandlers in Long Island (NY) suburbs. They usually hang out in supermarket parking lots. If you give them a dollar, 100% of the time they say "Is that all you've got?"
 
2013-05-20 08:43:37 AM  

crab66: More poor live in suburbs than in urban areas, research showsBut cities still have a bigger percentage,

Oh. Okay.


In summary: more people are poor now than before
 
2013-05-20 08:47:20 AM  
Headline fail.  More poor people live in suburbia than in urban areas, but the concentration of poor people is still higher in urban areas.
Suburbs are old now.  It's not hard to find 50, 60 year old houses, in bad shape, in the suburbs.  Decent place for a poor person I guess.
 
2013-05-20 08:47:28 AM  
That would have been suburban DC back in the 90s.  I can't even guess at the number of times I heard baffled conversations to the effect of "I don't know how he bought that $300K townhouse, he works at a gas station.".  It was really crazy for a while.
 
2013-05-20 08:50:55 AM  
Keep the government's hand off my mobility scooter!
 
2013-05-20 08:52:17 AM  
So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?
 
2013-05-20 08:55:59 AM  
The suburban crash is coming.

The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm. When the same thing happens the suburbs- they don't have the economies of scale that a city can have. They don't have the businesses to hold up the economy. They don't have the transit systems that make it affordable to live there.

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but the latter half of the 20th century established a world that simply isn't sustainable. And it's not the sort of thing that can fail gracefully- it's going to collapse and it's going to collapse  hard.
 
2013-05-20 08:56:00 AM  
Divide and conquer.  People who are physically separated from one another are less likely to organize.  Which people are more likely to have a problem with the status quo?  The poor.  Uprisings would tend to come from the dense population of cities where the mass of poor and middle class outnumber those in authority and the increased likelihood of critical mass.  Also, suburbia is often gridded and very easy to control by simply blocking streets.  The complexity of cities makes them much harder to secure.
 
2013-05-20 08:56:26 AM  

WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?


Generally, if you're living in a town with a population of 30,000 or less which is NOT a suburb of a major city, they won't be an issue.

Bums, beggars, street trash, and all manner of human detritus need a large volume of moneyed folks to make it worth their while to beg.  They can't support themselves in smaller towns, so they don't show up.  Yes, you'll have "poverty", but they're generally in HUD housing, sleeping all day, and getting arrested at night.  It keeps poverty invisible which is the way I prefer it.  Far better than when poverty mugged me and stole my phone on a trip into the big city.
 
2013-05-20 08:57:01 AM  

WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?


You don't avoid them anymore. You move into poor neighborhoods, because you can get property for a song. That drives the housing prices up, which drives the poors out, but still leaves you with an "authentic" and "trendy" house in a "rising" neighborhood.
 
2013-05-20 08:57:11 AM  
The folks with "Hungry Need Help" signs have been hitting up my boring suburban offramp.

I often wonder how much of their diet consists of granola bars thrown from passing Ford Leviathans.
 
2013-05-20 09:01:50 AM  

WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?


If you have to ask that question: then you're one of them.
 
2013-05-20 09:03:47 AM  

mjohnson71: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

If you have to ask that question: then you're one of them.


Damn. Good point. Way to make me feel like a failure.
 
2013-05-20 09:07:20 AM  
So does this mean we are slowly turning into Europe?
 
2013-05-20 09:07:53 AM  

lackadaisicalfreakshow: The folks with "Hungry Need Help" signs have been hitting up my boring suburban offramp.


I've noticed the same thing in my old suburban stomping grounds. I guess the suburban cops are getting lazy since their M.O. used to be to pick them up and drop them off in downtown.
 
2013-05-20 09:08:39 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Must be pretty cramped.
 
2013-05-20 09:08:40 AM  

WhippingBoy: mjohnson71: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

If you have to ask that question: then you're one of them.

Damn. Good point. Way to make me feel like a failure.


Glad I can do my part to brighten your Monday morning.
 
2013-05-20 09:10:00 AM  

t3knomanser: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

You don't avoid them anymore. You move into poor neighborhoods, because you can get property for a song. That drives the housing prices up, which drives the poors out, but still leaves you with an "authentic" and "trendy" house in a "rising" neighborhood.


Have they started doing gated communities in urban areas yet? If not I predict we see them within 2-3 years.
 
2013-05-20 09:10:17 AM  

WhippingBoy: mjohnson71: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

If you have to ask that question: then you're one of them.

Damn. Good point. Way to make me feel like a failure.


Keep your chin up. You can still despise all the other poor people. That should make you feel better.
 
2013-05-20 09:11:07 AM  

Carth: Have they started doing gated communities in urban areas yet? If not I predict we see them within 2-3 years.


Not really. Cities are too dense for that- you get buildings with doormen and secure entries.
 
2013-05-20 09:12:58 AM  
Concentrated poor are easier to transport and store.
 
2013-05-20 09:13:47 AM  

another cultural observer: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

Generally, if you're living in a town with a population of 30,000 or less which is NOT a suburb of a major city, they won't be an issue.

Bums, beggars, street trash, and all manner of human detritus need a large volume of moneyed folks to make it worth their while to beg.  They can't support themselves in smaller towns, so they don't show up.  Yes, you'll have "poverty", but they're generally in HUD housing, sleeping all day, and getting arrested at night.  It keeps poverty invisible which is the way I prefer it.  Far better than when poverty mugged me and stole my phone on a trip into the big city.


That was probably Poverty's brother, Drugs.
 
2013-05-20 09:16:34 AM  

t3knomanser: Carth: Have they started doing gated communities in urban areas yet? If not I predict we see them within 2-3 years.

Not really. Cities are too dense for that- you get buildings with doormen and secure entries.


I think we'll move towards that as suburbs become less sustainable. The only one I could think of in the US was Hillandale in Georgetown but they are really popular in other countries around the world.
 
2013-05-20 09:18:09 AM  
The main thing I took away from this article is that poor people are also really really ugly.  Or maybe it's that really really ugly people happen to be poor.  I won't argue causation, just noticing a correlation there.
 
2013-05-20 09:18:54 AM  

t3knomanser: The suburban crash is coming.

The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm. When the same thing happens the suburbs- they don't have the economies of scale that a city can have. They don't have the businesses to hold up the economy. They don't have the transit systems that make it affordable to live there.

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but the latter half of the 20th century established a world that simply isn't sustainable. And it's not the sort of thing that can fail gracefully- it's going to collapse and it's going to collapse  hard.


Eh, I'll ride out the crash in my burbclave, until some spunky thrasher chick comes along and reboots the paradigm...
 
2013-05-20 09:20:30 AM  

Carth: I think we'll move towards that as suburbs become less sustainable. The only one I could think of in the US was Hillandale in Georgetown but they are really popular in other countries around the world.


I think it would require a serious urban-redesign to make something like that work. American cities just aren't built for that, except maybe in their underdeveloped fringes- but that's less "city" and more "suburb".
 
2013-05-20 09:20:41 AM  

WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?


cdn.theatlanticcities.com
 
2013-05-20 09:20:46 AM  

ZeroKnightRaiden: The main thing I took away from this article is that poor people are also really really ugly.  Or maybe it's that really really ugly people happen to be poor.  I won't argue causation, just noticing a correlation there.


Not sure if you're kidding, but it's pretty well established there IS a correlation...
 
2013-05-20 09:21:06 AM  

t3knomanser: The suburban crash is coming.

The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm. When the same thing happens the suburbs- they don't have the economies of scale that a city can have. They don't have the businesses to hold up the economy. They don't have the transit systems that make it affordable to live there.

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but the latter half of the 20th century established a world that simply isn't sustainable. And it's not the sort of thing that can fail gracefully- it's going to collapse and it's going to collapse  hard.


Or we could just change the zoning laws to allow live/work, cottage industries, and market gardens. Ive seen it happen.
 
2013-05-20 09:21:26 AM  

PunGent: Eh, I'll ride out the crash in my burbclave, until some spunky thrasher chick comes along and reboots the paradigm...


Hey, that's cool. I'll swing by later. We can order some pizza from Uncle Enzo's.
 
2013-05-20 09:23:30 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: WhippingBoy: mjohnson71: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

If you have to ask that question: then you're one of them.

Damn. Good point. Way to make me feel like a failure.

Keep your chin up. You can still despise all the other poor people. That should make you feel better.


Thanks. It does.
 
2013-05-20 09:25:35 AM  

WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?




Don't be like the people in the $10,000,000 homes who have to contend with neighbors in teh $20,000,000 homes who use their helipad for that 15 minute chopper commute into the city.

There are the poor rich, the medium rich, the rich rich, the super rich, and those people you will never know about.
 
2013-05-20 09:26:27 AM  
"concentrated", I do not think the subby knows what that word means.
 
2013-05-20 09:30:07 AM  

quickdraw: Or we could just change the zoning laws to allow live/work, cottage industries, and market gardens. Ive seen it happen.


In some of the older, denser suburbs? Sure. They're basically cities  anyway. But the cul-de-sac, sidewalk-free, built-for-cars-and-not-people suburbs? I think there's a serious infrastructural challenge that can't be corrected by smart zoning.
 
2013-05-20 09:34:28 AM  

t3knomanser: The suburban crash is coming.

The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm. When the same thing happens the suburbs- they don't have the economies of scale that a city can have. They don't have the businesses to hold up the economy. They don't have the transit systems that make it affordable to live there.

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but the latter half of the 20th century established a world that simply isn't sustainable. And it's not the sort of thing that can fail gracefully- it's going to collapse and it's going to collapse  hard.


I see you're familiar with the preachings of Mr. Kunstler.  I don't want to sound like an ass, but he's been farking that chicken for over a decade now, and the initial signs of such a collapse haven't manifested.
The theory is sound, though.  And once cheap energy is truly lost, he will be vindicated, but "cheap" energy seems to still be pretty plentiful, at least enough so that I can still commute 30 miles one-way and not suffer economically.
 
2013-05-20 09:35:36 AM  
Around me, it is more the rural areas. Some poor people living out in the woods.
 
2013-05-20 09:39:52 AM  

kdawg7736: Around me, it is more the rural areas. Some poor people living out in the woods.


Move out of West Virginia.
 
2013-05-20 09:50:18 AM  

t3knomanser: The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm.


Suburbs are older than you would think (Philly's are more than 200 years old -- even the ones they never got around to annexing), and you're ignoring hysteresis. Unless you really think Detroit can viably afford 1.5 million people's worth of infrastructure on 750k's worth of tax base.
 
2013-05-20 09:50:56 AM  

rolladuck: I see you're familiar with the preachings of Mr. Kunstler


Actually, I'm not. I've never heard of him before today.

rolladuck: and the initial signs of such a collapse haven't manifested


I think a rapid increase in suburban property is an initial sign of such a collapse.
 
2013-05-20 09:54:24 AM  
a3.ec-images.myspacecdn.com

"Poor people tend to live in clusters."
 
2013-05-20 10:04:39 AM  

rolladuck: kdawg7736: Around me, it is more the rural areas. Some poor people living out in the woods.

Move out of West Virginia.

America.

FTFY.

The old coal country in the foothills and hollows of Appalachia isn't faring that badly these days, at least in comparison. We haven't had an economy since before the Depression, so we didn't have that much to lose. We never had much of a housing bubble, so the crash only hurt the assholes and the real estate agents. Few of us had any sort of 401k to speak of, and the ones who did already lost so big in the .com and 9/11 crashes that we never recovered, so we didn't lose our life savings either. Sure, there's the crushing poverty, and the amphetamine and opiate epidemic, and the nonexistent infrastructure, but we're pretty well used to that. Compare our lives, which are much the same as they've always been, to those of people who suddenly lost everything they had. In short, we're used to living in the mud, and glad the rest of the country stopped in for a visit. At least now we'll either do something real about poverty in America or we'll all rise up together for a glorious last stand against the wealthy like our great-grandfathers in the mines. Sure, a lot of them died, and they never got the reforms they demanded, but at least we've mostly forgotten about them.

(Which side are you on, boys?)
 
2013-05-20 10:33:26 AM  

t3knomanser: The suburban crash is coming.

The suburbs are an economic anomaly, made possible only through cheap transportation and the rapid installation of highway infrastructure. We've long ago saturated that infrastructure. Transportation (and energy costs in general) aren't going to get any cheaper. We're starting to see the serious environmental costs of suburban overbuilding.

When white-flight emptied the cities, cities still managed to stay afloat because the city is a highly efficient way to manage infrastructure. Despite the collapsing tax base, cities were (mostly) able to weather the storm. When the same thing happens the suburbs- they don't have the economies of scale that a city can have. They don't have the businesses to hold up the economy. They don't have the transit systems that make it affordable to live there.

I don't want to sound apocalyptic, but the latter half of the 20th century established a world that simply isn't sustainable. And it's not the sort of thing that can fail gracefully- it's going to collapse and it's going to collapse  hard.


==================

Most of what you say is true.  After WWII there was serious concern that, without the stimulus of the war,  the economy would slip back into recession, or even depression, .   The consensus among government and academic types was that the post war economy should be centered around the private motor car.

The feds spent big on highway infrastructure, which included not just roads, but utilities and airports.   Working age people were encouraged to leave urban areas for the new suburbs.  Businesses were provided incentives to do likewise.   As a result many cities nearly ended up dead.   Robert Moses nearly killed off New York City by cutting it to pieces with arterial highways.  He was finally stopped in the 60s before he could deliver the coup de  grâce.  Likewise the American rail system, once the envy of the world, was allowed to shrivel up and die.  Today the US is the only developed country in the world without a single high speed rail link (no, the Acela is not high speed rail).

The postwar economic strategy was predicated on two things, a young population and cheap petroleum, the US had both.  For the most part it worked,  the only losers being the cities, and the people who were too old/poor to get out.  The entire thing started to come apart with the first oil shocks of the 70s.

The recent failed oil wars have finally tipped the balance.   Fuel is no longer cheap and will likely never be cheap again.   With the exception of first ring suburbs that have rail links to urban areas, suburban living is coming to an end, recent Census data shows just that.   For the first time since the end of WWII, the working age white population of Manhattan is increasing...as a percentage... while the low income black population is going into decline.

Did you buy a McMansion out in Particleboard Estates?  70 miles from your jerb?  Sucker
 
2013-05-20 10:38:29 AM  

Carth: t3knomanser: WhippingBoy: So where can a self-respecting person move in order to avoid the poors?

You don't avoid them anymore. You move into poor neighborhoods, because you can get property for a song. That drives the housing prices up, which drives the poors out, but still leaves you with an "authentic" and "trendy" house in a "rising" neighborhood.

Have they started doing gated communities in urban areas yet? If not I predict we see them within 2-3 years.


==============

They're called "Doorman Buildings".
 
Displayed 50 of 77 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report