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(NBC News)   ADHD linked to adult obesity, study fi...ooh, donut   (vitals.nbcnews.com) divider line 34
    More: Misc, ADHD, obesity, child psychiatrist, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Alex Castellanos, long-term experiment, Ritalin, Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh  
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1901 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 May 2013 at 9:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-20 09:51:37 AM
Who cars if we get fat, so long as we get great grades?!
 
2013-05-20 09:54:30 AM
 
2013-05-20 10:07:00 AM
"I can't exercise. I have ADHD."
 
2013-05-20 10:09:22 AM
Wow, really original and not at all expected headline, subby!
 
2013-05-20 10:12:55 AM
A hallmark of the disorder is poor impulse control so the fact that people with ADD tend to overeat or eat unhealthy foods should not be a surprise to anyone.
 
2013-05-20 10:13:58 AM
Geez, I could do with a little obesity for my ADHD kid.  Stimulants are also appetite suppressants and it's tough getting him to eat enough.  He's rail thin- weighs 20 pounds less than his "little" brother despite being taller
 
2013-05-20 10:14:12 AM
222 people in the study. Wow, what a good sample size of the population! Clearly that must translate perfectly to the ~15 million people who have been diagnosed assuming 5% of ~307 million in the US. Never mind the rising obesity rates across the board, that couldn't have anything to do with it.

/farktards.
 
2013-05-20 10:17:03 AM

Incredulous: Balderdash.


FYFA:

I can't shake the feeling that my just-7-year-old son has some attention challenges that are making his life more difficult. While he gets good grades in a challenging private school, has many friends, and is not at all aggressive, his teachers say he really struggles to maintain focus.

That is concerning. When I was 7, I was building impossible bottles and focusing on my scrimshaw.
 
2013-05-20 10:21:47 AM

Glockenspiel Hero: Geez, I could do with a little obesity for my ADHD kid.  Stimulants are also appetite suppressants and it's tough getting him to eat enough.  He's rail thin- weighs 20 pounds less than his "little" brother despite being taller


Be careful. I was a ritalin-kid who couldn't put on any fat in childhood, despite eating as freely as I wanted to. My parents permitted it because overeating didn't seem to have consequences then. Puberty kicked in and the skinniness went away, but it's been damn hard trying to re-program my habits and impulses on food.
 
2013-05-20 10:28:09 AM
Much more accurate ADHD headlines are out there.

Here's an example:

Study finds that people with ADHD tend to have a higher rate of obesity I have a cousin who's pretty fat, she really likes tacos.  Yesterday I went out for coffee with some friends."
 
2013-05-20 10:28:51 AM

lesliessexxy: Much more accurate ADHD headlines are out there.

Here's an example:

Study finds that people with ADHD tend to have a higher rate of obesity I have a cousin who's pretty fat, she really likes tacos.  Yesterday I went out for coffee with some friends."


Random Quotation Marks Day.
 
2013-05-20 10:42:33 AM

ladyfortuna: 222 people in the study. Wow, what a good sample size of the population! Clearly that must translate perfectly to the ~15 million people who have been diagnosed assuming 5% of ~307 million in the US. Never mind the rising obesity rates across the board, that couldn't have anything to do with it.

/farktards.


The study was longitudinal, not cross-sectional. And they had a control group. And what they found were not exactly tiny differences between those groups.
 
2013-05-20 10:59:05 AM
Wanna go ride bikes?
 
2013-05-20 11:42:40 AM

sigdiamond2000: "I can't exercise. I have ADHD."


I can't exercise, I'm just plain lazy.
 
2013-05-20 11:47:53 AM

Incredulous: Balderdash.


So while it may seem that every aspect of human life is being given a diagnosis, this is simply false. Surveys of large populations of people in the United States continue to show that about 5 to 8 percent of children meet criteria for a diagnosis of A.D.H.D., and 4 to 5 percent of adults. That is hardly evidence that everyone is being diagnosed with this disorder.

It's only 1 in every 20 kids being diagnosed with this single disorder.

Relax. It's not as though the DSM itself says that the incidence rate should be about half of that amount.

/oh, what's that? ...the hell you say.
 
2013-05-20 12:05:07 PM

Bumblefark: Incredulous: Balderdash.

So while it may seem that every aspect of human life is being given a diagnosis, this is simply false. Surveys of large populations of people in the United States continue to show that about 5 to 8 percent of children meet criteria for a diagnosis of A.D.H.D., and 4 to 5 percent of adults. That is hardly evidence that everyone is being diagnosed with this disorder.

It's only 1 in every 20 kids being diagnosed with this single disorder.

Relax. It's not as though the DSM itself says that the incidence rate should be about half of that amount.

/oh, what's that? ...the hell you say.


Speaking of, the misinterpreted article about Dr. Leon Eisenberg ("The father of ADHD admits the disease is completely made up!') on Natural News type sites has been making the rounds on Facebook as of late through acquaintances that shun non-holistic medicine:  http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp
 
2013-05-20 12:14:59 PM
Obesity?!? Not once they put you on Adderall...
 
zez
2013-05-20 12:19:59 PM
that article fit my adhd son so well I started looking around the house for hidden cameras.
 
2013-05-20 12:33:13 PM

Incredulous: Balderdash.


Oh my goodness.  That woman trying to get her husband diagnosed with ADHD by FILLING OUT THE PAPERWORK/TEST FOR HIM efiljewilvm WTF lady.
 
2013-05-20 01:03:56 PM
Since all of you KNOW the reality but are covering for your own bad decision by making yourself of your poor kids addicts, should I even bother telling you that 'vagaries of translation' is obvious backpedaling. You simply use more words to describe the concept, idiots.

No doubt you helpless and hopeless addicts will sneer at even THIS link saying it is untrustworthy. You'll say that about any information against your bad decision.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Even further, a quote from Jerome Kagan from the same snopes post.

'That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

Oh yea. Glockenspiel Hero, feed your addict kid and try being a farking parent.
 
2013-05-20 01:23:44 PM

Proximuscentauri: Since all of you KNOW the reality but are covering for your own bad decision by making yourself of your poor kids addicts, should I even bother telling you that 'vagaries of translation' is obvious backpedaling. You simply use more words to describe the concept, idiots.

No doubt you helpless and hopeless addicts will sneer at even THIS link saying it is untrustworthy. You'll say that about any information against your bad decision.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Even further, a quote from Jerome Kagan from the same snopes post.

'That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

Oh yea. Glockenspiel Hero, feed your addict kid and try being a farking parent.


Whoa, man! Are you always this angry while your driving the computer?
 
2013-05-20 01:38:04 PM

Tanuki no Kintama: Proximuscentauri: Since all of you KNOW the reality but are covering for your own bad decision by making yourself of your poor kids addicts, should I even bother telling you that 'vagaries of translation' is obvious backpedaling. You simply use more words to describe the concept, idiots.

No doubt you helpless and hopeless addicts will sneer at even THIS link saying it is untrustworthy. You'll say that about any information against your bad decision.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Even further, a quote from Jerome Kagan from the same snopes post.

'That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

Oh yea. Glockenspiel Hero, feed your addict kid and try being a farking parent.

Whoa, man! Are you always this angry while your driving the computer?


Eh, it's ok.  Anyone with an ADHD kid gets that sometimes.  Of course, those people aren't living with an ADHD kid and thus know everything about it and our kid, as opposed to us who actually deal with it and have first hand experience with what stimulant drugs actually do, day to day.

For more details, you can always take the online course  Not the best MOOC I've taken but I've learned some interesting stuff.
 
2013-05-20 01:41:02 PM

Proximuscentauri: Since all of you KNOW the reality but are covering for your own bad decision by making yourself of your poor kids addicts, should I even bother telling you that 'vagaries of translation' is obvious backpedaling. You simply use more words to describe the concept, idiots.

No doubt you helpless and hopeless addicts will sneer at even THIS link saying it is untrustworthy. You'll say that about any information against your bad decision.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Even further, a quote from Jerome Kagan from the same snopes post.

'That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

Oh yea. Glockenspiel Hero, feed your addict kid and try being a farking parent.


If you don't speak German, perhaps you should find a translated page of the original article where the "Dr. Eisenberg admits on deathbed that ADHD is fictitious" came from.

He didn't say that ADHD is a fabricated disorder, but spoke about his dismay with drug companies pushing stimulant drugs and doctors over-diagnosing and overprescribing medications before it being really well-understood and also talked about how actual ADHD cases should be treated with things like lifestyle changes.
 
2013-05-20 02:33:24 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Eh, it's ok.  Anyone with an ADHD kid gets that sometimes.  Of course, those people aren't living with an ADHD kid and thus know everything about it and our kid, as opposed to us who actually deal with it and have first hand experience with what stimulant drugs actually do, day to day.

For more details, you can always take the online course  Not the best MOOC I've taken but I've learned some interesting stuff.


Well, I was just joking around, I thought it would be funny to tell someone to not drive angry while using the computer. I hadn't even noticed that he had specifically mentioned you.

Anyway, I'm actually diagnosed with ADHD, so I know what it's like. It really turned things around in school and, while I wasn't a straight A student, I started doing a hell of a lot better. On days I'd forget my medication, I couldn't focus at all and would be really hyper, so the meds definitely helped. These days, the hyperactivity part is gone, but I can still have focus issues.

I try to take a nuanced approach to everything and I can agree (and I'm sure parents such as yourself can, too) that the safety of medication and the reasons behind the dramatic increase of the prevalence of ADHD are definitely important and should be studied. But, there are just some people who think it's some big conspiracy to drug your kids in order to line the pockets of the drug companies and since you can't convince those people, I figure, why not have some fun with it?

Thanks for the link, I check it out.
 
2013-05-20 02:33:47 PM

Brittabot: A hallmark of the disorder is poor impulse control so the fact that people with ADD tend to overeat or eat unhealthy foods should not be a surprise to anyone.


Bingo, although I wouldn't call it poor impulse control (makes me think of Snow Crash). But yes, I find that when I'm taking my ADD meds, I can make a healthy meal. If I'm not, it's "Oh right. Food. Uhh... Well, this looks edible. Good enough."
 
2013-05-20 02:35:17 PM
If you think that ADHD isn't real, then change the school system to accommodate kids who are hyper or inattentive--for whatever reason.  Increase the time they have to take tests and reduce the push toward standardization.

What's that? You don't have time? You don't think you can? You don't know how? They told you "no?" Then STFU.

FWIW, I'm still somewhat frustrated at my parents for not getting me on adderall/whatever sooner.  I'd suck at math simply because I'd forget negative signs in 15-step problems and other stupid, piddly mistakes.  My schools designed tests so that I'd only have enough time to finish them before the period ends (and therefore couldn't go back to check my work for such stupid, piddly mistakes).   No matter what I did or what I tried, crap like that would plague me, because I was rushing to get through the stupid things just to finish the test. It drove me nuts with frustration.
The difference was like night and day as compared to now.

You old people seem to want to live in this drug-free utopia, yet you continually bog down your kids with increasing levels of responsibility and competitiveness and expect them to rise to it. You want them to be kids, yet you speed them through to adulthood as fast as possible. OF COURSE we need drugs to be the supermen you want us to be, because you're becoming obsolete and are leaving nothing behind for us--you'll happily spend everything you ever make.

So on behalf of your crotchfruit, if you don't think ADHD is real--at least in the context of the caffeine-fueled, speed-driven, no-inheritance society you've crafted for us--you can feel free to go to hell.

That is all.
 
2013-05-20 02:50:32 PM

icam: Proximuscentauri: Since all of you KNOW the reality but are covering for your own bad decision by making yourself of your poor kids addicts, should I even bother telling you that 'vagaries of translation' is obvious backpedaling. You simply use more words to describe the concept, idiots.

No doubt you helpless and hopeless addicts will sneer at even THIS link saying it is untrustworthy. You'll say that about any information against your bad decision.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/adhd.asp

Even further, a quote from Jerome Kagan from the same snopes post.

'That's correct; it is an invention. Every child who's not doing well in school is sent to see a pediatrician, and the pediatrician says: "It's ADHD; here's Ritalin." In fact, 90 percent of these 5.4 million kids don't have an abnormal dopamine metabolism. The problem is, if a drug is available to doctors, they'll make the corresponding diagnosis.

Oh yea. Glockenspiel Hero, feed your addict kid and try being a farking parent.

If you don't speak German, perhaps you should find a translated page of the original article where the "Dr. Eisenberg admits on deathbed that ADHD is fictitious" came from.

He didn't say that ADHD is a fabricated disorder, but spoke about his dismay with drug companies pushing stimulant drugs and doctors over-diagnosing and overprescribing medications before it being really well-understood and also talked about how actual ADHD cases should be treated with things like lifestyle changes.


A) Who says we don't do lifestyle changes as well?  Any decent ADHD treatment includes them.  This isn't even remotely controversial

B) How do you use lifestyle changes to alter a poorly functioning prefrontal cortex and anterior cingulate?  The single most fascinating thing I've seen in the MOOC was Bush's work on neuroimaging people with ADHD while giving them a Stroop counting test to measure inhibition
-Normal people: Anterior cingulate cortex lights up brightly on fMRI
-ADHD people: Anterior cingulate is dark

It's flat out a biological condition, and one that can be seen- and to boot, be fixed
-ADHD people on Ritalin: Anterior cingulate lights up, just like in a normal person.

Given that we have cheap drugs to treat the condition, why *wouldn't* you want to use them?  It's bizarre in a way- there's a staggering resistance to treating folks for a chronic, disabilitating disease. (And abuse heaped on the parents for trying to get treatment- see above)  It's like refusing to treat scoliosis and just insisting that you should make lifestyle changes instead of using braces and surgery to fix it.
 
2013-05-20 03:18:32 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Given that we have cheap drugs to treat the condition, why *wouldn't* you want to use them? It's bizarre in a way- there's a staggering resistance to treating folks for a chronic, disabilitating disease. (And abuse heaped on the parents for trying to get treatment- see above) It's like refusing to treat scoliosis and just insisting that you should make lifestyle changes instead of using braces and surgery to fix it.


Maybe because the scientific evidence on the efficacy of those drugs is sort of thin and more than a little mixed. FTA:

Researchers also found surprising results regarding the effectiveness of medicine in treating ADHD. In contrast to children in United States, youth in northern Finland are rarely treated with medicine for ADHD, yet the 'look' of the disorder - its prevalence, symptoms, psychiatric comorbidity and cognition - is relatively the same as in the U.S., where stimulant medication is widely used. The researchers point out that this raises important issues about the efficacy of the current treatments of ADHD in dealing with the disorder's long-term problems.
 
2013-05-20 03:26:15 PM

Bumblefark: Glockenspiel Hero: Given that we have cheap drugs to treat the condition, why *wouldn't* you want to use them? It's bizarre in a way- there's a staggering resistance to treating folks for a chronic, disabilitating disease. (And abuse heaped on the parents for trying to get treatment- see above) It's like refusing to treat scoliosis and just insisting that you should make lifestyle changes instead of using braces and surgery to fix it.

Maybe because the scientific evidence on the efficacy of those drugs is sort of thin and more than a little mixed. FTA:

Researchers also found surprising results regarding the effectiveness of medicine in treating ADHD. In contrast to children in United States, youth in northern Finland are rarely treated with medicine for ADHD, yet the 'look' of the disorder - its prevalence, symptoms, psychiatric comorbidity and cognition - is relatively the same as in the U.S., where stimulant medication is widely used. The researchers point out that this raises important issues about the efficacy of the current treatments of ADHD in dealing with the disorder's long-term problems.


Actually, this article probably sums up what the literature as a whole is telling us more succinctly:


Attention-deficit drugs increase concentration in the short term, which is why they work so well for college students cramming for exams. But when given to children over long periods of time, they neither improve school achievement nor reduce behavior problems. The drugs can also have serious side effects, including stunting growth.

Sadly, few physicians and parents seem to be aware of what we have been learning about the lack of effectiveness of these drugs.
 
2013-05-20 03:27:43 PM
I call shenanigans.  People with ADHD can't complete a sentence without saying half way through, "Let's go ride bikes!" (unless there are squirrels around).
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-05-20 03:47:56 PM
Funny how you always hear rants about "OMG it's fake! Docs just want to addict kids to speed and parents just are lazy!" from loud idiots...who refuse to acknowledge all the adults who finally get their trearment and go "I finally can follow through on a thought and finish something successfully. I finally can tell my impulses to go away and let me work."

Many are finding success with Wellbutrin raising dopamine levels, no stimulants involved.

And what's with slamming a study that took 33 years, used MRIs, and had just over a couple hundred subjects with 50% as a control group? That's considered pathetic and anecdotal?
 
2013-05-20 04:07:02 PM

Bumblefark: Actually, this article probably sums up what the literature as a whole is telling us more succinctly:


Attention-deficit drugs increase concentration in the short term, which is why they work so well for college students cramming for exams. But when given to children over long periods of time, they neither improve school achievement nor reduce behavior problems. The drugs can also have serious side effects, including stunting growth.

Sadly, few physicians and parents seem to be aware of what we have been learning about the lack of effectiveness of these drugs.


Interesting, but not fully convincing.  He completely dismisses the brain scan stuff because some children don't pay attention to the tasks.  Yes- the ones with ADHD.  Odd, that.

His comments about there being no long term studies that show benefits to ADHD drugs is flat out wrong.  See for example multiple studies by Biederman- the Jul 2009 one studying a group over ten years: "CONCLUSIONS: We found evidence that stimulant treatment decreases the risk for subsequent comorbid psychiatric disorders and academic failure in youth with ADHD"

Or another multi-year meta study: "Conclusion. Our results suggest that stimulant therapy in childhood is associated with a reduction in the risk for subsequent drug and alcohol use disorders "

Or a 17-year long study by Barbaresi et al: "Overall, 73.1% of episodes of stimulant treatment were associated with a favorable response. "

I can dig up quite a few more.  The second study is quite interesting- ADHD kids have more than twice the normal risk of developing drug/alcohol abuse issues.   Unless they take stimulants, in which case their risk drops to the same as normal people.

Yeah, they are an imperfect tool, but they are a damn sight better than the alternative.
 
2013-05-20 04:38:55 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: Interesting, but not fully convincing. He completely dismisses the brain scan stuff because some children don't pay attention to the tasks. Yes- the ones with ADHD. Odd, that.


Actually, his main reason for rejecting the brain scan stuff is found here, I think:

While the technological sophistication of these studies may impress parents and nonprofessionals, they can be misleading. Of course the brains of children with behavior problems will show anomalies on brain scans. It could not be otherwise.

I happen to agree with him. If you want to argue that ADHD is a biological disorder, then imaging alone isn't going to get you there. You actually have locate the etiology of the disorder. A study showing that different states of mind correspond to different scan patterns--we can pretty much file that under the heading, "No shiat, Sherlock."

His comments about there being no long term studies that show benefits to ADHD drugs is flat out wrong.

Agreed. That's why I described the literature as "mixed" rather than "uni-vocal." He might have been referring to his own field's journals, but I could only speculate. However, his overall characterization of what is known about the efficacy of these drugs (i.e., great outcomes on narrow performance measures in the immediate term; weaker to completely non-effective on broader measures and over longer periods of time) -- that is not at all controversial.

The studies that do find long term effectiveness are still in the minority position, and they have tended to be of a lower caliber. And even in the case of the good studies that do find positive effects, I think people would be surprised to find just how *small* the effect sizes actually are (compared to "commonsense" about just how great these drugs are).

Point is, there is a gaping disparity between what the research community knows about these drugs, and what the patient/provider community seems to think they know about these drugs. It really is pretty much night and day.
 
2013-05-20 10:51:16 PM

EveryoneLovesCleanUndies: Obesity?!? Not once they put you on Adderall...


It doesn't help.  Now wellbutrin was a different story, I lost a lot of weight on that one.
 
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