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(Daily Mail)   Teenager invents way to charge cell phone in 20 seconds...if it doesn't explode   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 137
    More: Cool, data storage device, Saratoga, storage battery, supercapacitors  
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7077 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 May 2013 at 10:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-20 08:20:55 AM
Isn't Amazon and Brookstone lousy with those devices or did no one think to slam "nano tech" into the description of a portable capacitor like this girl did?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-05-20 08:22:35 AM
When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?
 
2013-05-20 10:07:40 AM

ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?


That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.
 
2013-05-20 10:14:11 AM
So she did this by herself with no lab?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-05-20 10:16:06 AM
That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

So one lightning bolt can charge 400 cars.
 
2013-05-20 10:20:00 AM
So it works only on an LED?

Potential is far from actual real use.

Is she a nano-engineer with a quantum physics background?  I'd love to actually hear more than "charge your cell phone in 20 seconds" because that makes people think in the next little while we would have this technology she has supposedly invented that will change the world of electronics.

She got a patent?  Cause they're making this sound like she'll become a billionaire if it's as world-changing as it's being made out to be.
 
2013-05-20 10:20:06 AM
I used my high school's nano-biochemical lab all the time too.
 
2013-05-20 10:21:34 AM

ZAZ: So one lightning bolt can charge 400 cars.


It's hard to know, they keep disappearing.
 
2013-05-20 10:22:54 AM

you have pee hands: ZAZ: So one lightning bolt can charge 400 cars.

It's hard to know, they keep disappearing.


So you're saying each lightning bolt contains 484 jiggawatts of power?
 
2013-05-20 10:23:55 AM

ZAZ: That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

So one lightning bolt can charge 400 cars.



imagehost3.online-image-editor.com
 
2013-05-20 10:31:25 AM

ZAZ: That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

So one lightning bolt can charge 400 cars.


I have an idea.  Meet me at the clock tower tomorrow.  We can use the energy from the lightning strike to power the flux capacitor.  It's crazy, but it just might work.

And stay away from Lorraine.  She's your mother, for pete's sake!
 
2013-05-20 10:38:51 AM
Not sure why she is getting any attention. We've been trying to shift from batteries to capacitors for a while now. There is a lot of work being done in this field.
 
2013-05-20 10:44:50 AM
Not possible, unread an article linked on fark last year about some MiT kids that already had going.
 
2013-05-20 10:51:08 AM

you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.


Three megawatts, meh. I want five megawatts by mid-May.
 
2013-05-20 10:52:35 AM
i.imgur.com
Does it go from a solid to a gas first?
 
2013-05-20 10:53:38 AM

you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.


Yep. Once I had a hard time explaining to someone that the issue with charging cars in a few minutes wasn't the battery.
 
2013-05-20 10:56:27 AM

HotWingConspiracy: So she did this by herself with no lab?


Cooper420: Is she a nano-engineer with a quantum physics background?


I'm a little incredulous myself.
 
2013-05-20 10:58:45 AM

you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.


3MW is nothing. A really big wind turbine puts that kind of power out. A large bank of capacitors can hold that much power easily, which will allow a more typical connection to the grid for a 'filling station' to function. I know this isn't what the girl was working on, but whoever invents a way to fully charge a car-sized Lithium battery in less than five minutes is going to be very wealthy.
 
2013-05-20 11:01:32 AM

impaler: you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

Yep. Once I had a hard time explaining to someone that the issue with charging cars in a few minutes wasn't the battery.


Yes, the battery is the problem. They don't take kindly to extremely high input current. The waste energy would melt the battery, even if the chemicals reactions inside the battery could be completed that quickly.
 
2013-05-20 11:04:12 AM
The chance of this headline being true: 0%.

She "invented" a capacitor which powers an LED.  Perhaps she copied the following:

http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/How-to-use-a-charge d- capacitor-to-light-an-led
 
2013-05-20 11:04:55 AM
I'm suspicious. No one who doesn't work for a funded academic lab or a multi-billion corporation would have the resources to create such a device, let alone the know-how. I would bet dollars to donuts that her father or mother is an electrical engineer working for Intel or a battery manufacturer and let their daughter take the credit for their invention in order to help her get a kick start on life. It takes 8 years of education to understand how these devices work. Bright high schoolers do not just put them together like a baking soda volcano.
 
2013-05-20 11:05:02 AM
And no one has pointed out thus far that this girl is entirely hittable? Tis a sad day on the internets.
 
2013-05-20 11:09:14 AM
We would have American children inventing things of this nature if it weren't for the fact that putting those things together would get them thrown in FPMITA Prison.

We've turned into a bunch of sniveling, scared little biatches.
 
2013-05-20 11:09:51 AM
Couldn't you use that 20 second to charge a supercap (or an array of supercaps, one for each cell of the battery) and charge power is removed (line voltage), the supercap could bleed out charge the cell to which it is connected?

I haven't run any of the numbers regarding any of this (just took a class that covered this last semester)....would this be totally impractical?
 
2013-05-20 11:12:19 AM
Sounds like she used graphene for this. Not quite new for powering LED
 
2013-05-20 11:14:12 AM

tuxq: We would have American children inventing things of this nature if it weren't for the fact that putting those things together would get them thrown in FPMITA Prison.

We've turned into a bunch of sniveling, scared little biatches.


1. wat
2. She's American
 
2013-05-20 11:16:37 AM
I worked it out, and it's genius.
She has two batteries, both identical. When the charge is depleted on one she puts in the other one, this process takes about 20 seconds.
She'll be a millionaire!!
 
2013-05-20 11:16:37 AM

madgonad: impaler: you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

Yep. Once I had a hard time explaining to someone that the issue with charging cars in a few minutes wasn't the battery.

Yes, the battery is the problem. They don't take kindly to extremely high input current. The waste energy would melt the battery, even if the chemicals reactions inside the battery could be completed that quickly.


That's nice. Before we deal with that, we need a safe reliable way to deliver megawatts of power to the car.

Electric car with 3 gallons of gas equivalent worth of energy - 3.4MW for 2 minutes. FYI - that's enough power to run about 128 furnaces.
 
2013-05-20 11:18:53 AM
Supercapacitors are fairly cool, but they tend to bleed charge in a hurry. The ONES ALREADY ON THE MARKET could make for a buffer in a hybrid car in  order to reclaim more of the regenerative braking. The limitations have to do with surface area and the dielectric constant of the electrolyte, unlike batteries there are no chemical processes to store or release energy.

Yes, I am familiar with the topic. No, I don't think they'll replace phone batteries.
 
2013-05-20 11:27:59 AM
Fantastic! Lets see, my smartphone has a capacity of 1480 mAh at 3.8v. That's. 20.246 kj of stored energy (checks out, takes a 5w charger an hour or so to fully charge it from dead). The headline indicates that this technology proposes to deliver that energy in 20 seconds. That would mean you would be providing the energy at 1012.32 J/s, or 1.012 kW. That's an enormous amount of energy transfer for such a small package! This indicates that the regulation systems and the etched wires in the PCB and the chips have to be able to sink that energy, and some of it will be dissipated as heat. Heat is very very difficult to dissipate in mobile phones, which is why energy transfers are typically kept at a minimum. At the typical output of phones (mine lasts 2.5 hrs at full power draw, which indicates a 2.25w maximum power output, and it actually turns on the emergency thermal shutdown alarms way before that time). That's 2.25w which causes this thermal shutdown. Almost 500 times that? There won't be enough time for the thermal shutdown protocols to take effect, the chips will just fry or melt.

Maybe the battery could take that charge rate, but everything leading up to that point on the internals of the system can't handle it yet. And even if they can, that heat's gotta go somewhere, and in a mobile device, that somewhere is the chassis and the PCBs, and ultimately to the user, which is a bad thing.
 
2013-05-20 11:34:28 AM

Naesen: at's 2.25w which causes this thermal shutdown. Almost 500 times that? There won't be enough time for the thermal shutdown protocols to take effect, the chips will just fry or melt.

Maybe the battery could take that charge rate, but everything leading up to that point on the internals of the system can't handle it yet. And even if they can, that heat's gotta go somewhere, and in a mobile device, that somewhere is the chassis and the PCBs, and ultimately to the user, which is a bad thing.


1. Freeze battery to near 0 kelvin
2. charge
3. unfreeze
 
2013-05-20 11:39:22 AM
The phone will charge in under 2 seconds, but you've only got 1 second to use it before you need to charge it again.
 
2013-05-20 11:41:44 AM

madgonad: 3MW is nothing. A really big wind turbine puts that kind of power out. A large bank of capacitors can hold that much power easily, which will allow a more typical connection to the grid for a 'filling station' to function. I know this isn't what the girl was working on, but whoever invents a way to fully charge a car-sized Lithium battery in less than five minutes is going to be very wealthy.


3MW is twelve thousand five hundred amps (12,500A) at 240 volts.

Your average house supports 200 amps.

A 3MW load suddenly dropping onto the grid would blow out transformers all over your town.
 
2013-05-20 11:48:29 AM

fluffy2097: 3MW is twelve thousand five hundred amps (12,500A) at 240 volts.

Your average house supports 200 amps.

A 3MW load suddenly dropping onto the grid would blow out transformers all over your town.


Don't be silly. A large bank of capacitors can hold that much power easily.
 
2013-05-20 11:51:25 AM

impaler: Don't be silly. A large bank of capacitors can hold that much power easily.


How are you going to safely discharge 12,500 amps?
 
2013-05-20 11:52:07 AM
...or turn inside-out.

v008o.popscreen.com
 
2013-05-20 11:54:55 AM

fluffy2097: How are you going to safely discharge 12,500 amps?


I was being sarcastic. Capacitors don't hold 'power.'
 
2013-05-20 11:56:30 AM
It really is not necessary to charge an EV battery in 5 minutes or less.  Since the battery is full every morning, a sufficiently large pack assures that the only time you will charge on the run will be when you are going for a very long trip.  With batteries that have a range of 250+ miles, a charge time of 20 minutes is fast enough that all of the charging can be done during bathroom and food breaks on those long trips.  That charging rate is achievable with today's technology.  And it only requires 300kW, which is easy to deliver.
 
2013-05-20 11:57:12 AM

fluffy2097: A 3MW load suddenly dropping onto the grid would blow out transformers all over your town.


Tell me about it

/taco tuesday
 
2013-05-20 11:58:16 AM

Hollie Maea: It really is not necessary to charge an EV battery in 5 minutes or less.  Since the battery is full every morning, a sufficiently large pack assures that the only time you will charge on the run will be when you are going for a very long trip.  With batteries that have a range of 250+ miles, a charge time of 20 minutes is fast enough that all of the charging can be done during bathroom and food breaks on those long trips.  That charging rate is achievable with today's technology.  And it only requires 300kW, which is easy to deliver.


Universal, quick-swap batteries.

Going on a long trip, halfway there you stop at a swap station and in 5 minutes you have a new battery.
 
2013-05-20 12:00:42 PM

Hollie Maea: It really is not necessary to charge an EV battery in 5 minutes or less.  Since the battery is full every morning, a sufficiently large pack assures that the only time you will charge on the run will be when you are going for a very long trip.  With batteries that have a range of 250+ miles, a charge time of 20 minutes is fast enough that all of the charging can be done during bathroom and food breaks on those long trips.  That charging rate is achievable with today's technology.  And it only requires 300kW, which is easy to deliver.


Well. The supercharging system is actually terrible for the Tesla Batteries, and you're not supposed to use them unless you absolutely have to supercharge.

Now. The supercharging system works at 300,000W (you claim) and it also works at 400 volts.

At 400 volts, 300,000 watts comes out to 750 amps PER CAR charging.

So to supercharge a Tesla, requires the total maximum current load sustainable by 3.5 average suburban homes. Per car.

/no it's not easy
 
2013-05-20 12:06:06 PM

MugzyBrown: Hollie Maea: It really is not necessary to charge an EV battery in 5 minutes or less.  Since the battery is full every morning, a sufficiently large pack assures that the only time you will charge on the run will be when you are going for a very long trip.  With batteries that have a range of 250+ miles, a charge time of 20 minutes is fast enough that all of the charging can be done during bathroom and food breaks on those long trips.  That charging rate is achievable with today's technology.  And it only requires 300kW, which is easy to deliver.

Universal, quick-swap batteries.

Going on a long trip, halfway there you stop at a swap station and in 5 minutes you have a new battery.


Tesla is expected to announce battery swap stations this week. As an EV driver, I don't expect it to be much of a hit. Just not necessary.
 
2013-05-20 12:09:19 PM

impaler: madgonad: impaler: you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.

Yep. Once I had a hard time explaining to someone that the issue with charging cars in a few minutes wasn't the battery.

Yes, the battery is the problem. They don't take kindly to extremely high input current. The waste energy would melt the battery, even if the chemicals reactions inside the battery could be completed that quickly.

That's nice. Before we deal with that, we need a safe reliable way to deliver megawatts of power to the car.

Electric car with 3 gallons of gas equivalent worth of energy - 3.4MW for 2 minutes. FYI - that's enough power to run about 128 furnaces.


Seriously. The power grid in my neighborhood is dicey as it is. I can't imagine what that kind of current draw from a couple people getting home around the same time and charging their cars would do to our grid. I'm thinking at the best we'd have a hell of a brownout and at the worst we'd set something on fire or trigger a full on blackout in my neighborhood.
 
2013-05-20 12:12:45 PM
Here's the project summary she submitted to the contest, if you want  the hardcore geek speak:

http://www.usc.edu/CSSF//History/2013/Projects/S0912.pdf

"Design and Synthesis of Hydrogenated TiO2-Polyaniline Nanorods for Flexible High-Performance Supercapacitors"

She used a USC lab.
 
2013-05-20 12:14:41 PM
As with most "Teenager trumps scientist" moments..... This has been done to death.  Seriously, Tesla was talking about it.  And tons of articles have been written about trying to replace batteries with high density capacitors.
I think it was called, "graphene supercapacitors".
 
2013-05-20 12:18:48 PM

mongbiohazard: Seriously. The power grid in my neighborhood is dicey as it is. I can't imagine what that kind of current draw from a couple people getting home around the same time and charging their cars would do to our grid. I'm thinking at the best we'd have a hell of a brownout and at the worst we'd set something on fire or trigger a full on blackout in my neighborhood.


Well. Thank god the home charging stations are limited to 30Amps at 240 volts, IE: 7200 watts

My air conditioner is 560 watts. I think they go up to about 1200 for window units.

So each Tesla is like adding 5-10 AC's to your house when it's charging.
 
2013-05-20 12:19:32 PM
Whose phone takes HOURS to charge?  Not mine.
 
2013-05-20 12:21:52 PM

fluffy2097: So each Tesla is like adding 5-10 AC's to your house when it's charging.


This randomly googled link puts the average year round residential US power usage at 940 kw/hr per month, which is about 1300 watts.  It wouldn't take too many home charging electric cars to require some serious infrastructure upgrades, especially if people don't have the sense to charge them at night.
 
2013-05-20 12:22:47 PM
How could an article be so long with so many pictures and say so little?

This sounds exciting... I would have learned about, you know, the actual story here - the battery.  It was just a fluff piece about how a girl won a contest.  Neat.... but how is the battery unique?  What does it do? learn me up!
 
2013-05-20 12:25:02 PM

you have pee hands: ZAZ: When do we get an electric car that can charge in 20 seconds... if it doesn't explode?

That would require 3MW if my math is close to right.


more like 1.21 GW, and you only get to 86MPH...
 
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