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(Talking Points Memo)   Father of Aurora victim confronts CO State Senate minority leader about how some senators conducted themselves during the debate, shows him pictures of slain son. State senator: "Yes, I know what he looks like" *storms off*   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 186
    More: Asinine, CO State Senate, morning, Party leaders of the United States Senate, Colorado, state senators  
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2368 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 May 2013 at 8:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-20 08:32:33 AM  
So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?
 
2013-05-20 08:48:13 AM  

dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?


Heartless jerk... Don't you know that if someone shows you a picture of someone who died during X that we must accept them as a leading authority on subject X while banning X?
 
2013-05-20 08:48:50 AM  
Classy.
 
2013-05-20 08:49:52 AM  
I predict this thread will be a model of calm, rational debate. I also predict the Cubs will win this year's World Series.
 
2013-05-20 08:51:57 AM  
Yes while we could do something to reduce gun violence even further and though we might never eliminate it entirely that right there is perfectly justifiable reason to throw our hands in the area, proclaim "fark IT" and ignore the emotional pain and loss thousands of people across the nation endure daily.
 
2013-05-20 08:52:21 AM  

Wolf_Blitzer: I predict this thread will be a model of calm, rational debate. I also predict the Cubs will win this year's World Series.


against Miami?
 
2013-05-20 08:52:59 AM  

MichiganFTL: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

Heartless jerk... Don't you know that if someone shows you a picture of someone who died during X that we must accept them as a leading authority on subject X while banning X?


Also remember that we must do something to prevent x
Y is something
Lets do y!

(Doesn't matter if y actually will fix x)
 
2013-05-20 08:53:40 AM  

dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?


The victim's dad was already successful since the gun laws had already been passed. There wasn't anything to gain by showing the politician the picture. So, blackmail wasn't a possibility.  He wanted him to understand the seriousness of the issue and not comport himself like a raging loon on the floor of the statehouse.

/When will people learn that you can't fight crazy with logic?
 
2013-05-20 08:53:58 AM  
They do get awfully squeamish about the details.

Show him cash if you really want his attention.
 
2013-05-20 08:55:44 AM  

dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?


LOL@ thinking Republicans have emotions*.

/*other than fear.
 
2013-05-20 08:55:51 AM  
Man, Nightwing's really let himself go.
 
2013-05-20 08:57:51 AM  
Why are our lawmakers acting like children?

I am so ready for my generation (Gen Y) to take over politically in this country. Give us a shot. We can get things moving.
Sad because I know that is at least a decade or two away.
 
2013-05-20 08:58:41 AM  
That's the problem right there.....he knows what the kid looks like BEFORE the incident.

Go ahead you farks....stand by your statements AFTER you've been forced to see what the results of your actions are.
 
2013-05-20 09:00:16 AM  

DayeOfJustice: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

The victim's dad was already successful since the gun laws had already been passed. There wasn't anything to gain by showing the politician the picture. So, blackmail wasn't a possibility.  He wanted him to understand the seriousness of the issue and not comport himself like a raging loon on the floor of the statehouse.

/When will people learn that you can't fight crazy with logic?


People who show pictures of aborted fetuses say the same thing...
 
2013-05-20 09:01:15 AM  

dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?


Word. Thankfully, nobody on the pro-completely-unrestricted-access-to-firearms side of the arguement ever appeals to the (largely imaginary) fear of tyranny or criminals or whatever else the voices tell them to be afraid of.

Because that kind of inconsistency would be troubling.
 
2013-05-20 09:01:17 AM  
"What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?
 
2013-05-20 09:01:58 AM  
Wait until the forensic pictures from Newtown get leaked...
 
2013-05-20 09:06:51 AM  

crazydave023: Why are our lawmakers acting like children?


Eh, I just watched the video.  The dad's making pleas for emotion without adding anything constructive to the debate.  We all get that your kid is dead dude, but preventing other people from defending themselves isn't going to make him any less dead.

So yeah, the guy had already established himself as a whiner, then came back up for round 2.  I would have told him to fark off too.
 
2013-05-20 09:07:13 AM  
In his defense he was probably late for a meeting with his puppeteer
 
2013-05-20 09:07:33 AM  
Nice of them to get that photo in a movie theater with him wearing a Nightwing shirt as well. What, because his Batman shirt would have been to exploitative?
 
2013-05-20 09:08:19 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: MichiganFTL: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

Heartless jerk... Don't you know that if someone shows you a picture of someone who died during X that we must accept them as a leading authority on subject X while banning X?

Also remember that we must do something to prevent x
Y is something
Lets do y!

(Doesn't matter if y actually will fix x)



You are correct.

To prevent terrorist attacks caused by  Al-Qaeda
Let us invade Iraq which had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.
 
2013-05-20 09:08:34 AM  

DayeOfJustice: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

The victim's dad was already successful since the gun laws had already been passed. There wasn't anything to gain by showing the politician the picture. So, blackmail wasn't a possibility.  He wanted him to understand the seriousness of the issue and not comport himself like a raging loon on the floor of the statehouse.

/When will people learn that you can't fight crazy with logic?


So he was just rubbing it in, then?

Listen, I feel sorry for anyone who has lost a loved one to violence.  I really do.  But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that mass shootings are going to happen no matter what laws are passed, and they are going to happen at about the same rate and same level of victims as has been the case for over 30 years

boston.com

So while I do have empathy for people who have lost loved ones to violence, what I don't have is a willingness to blindly believe that their pain, albeit very real and very deep, should drive public policy in the face of data that shows that there is going to be zero effect that any possible law is going to have on these sorts of incidents, because for the last 30+ years, that has been the effect.  Zero.
 
2013-05-20 09:09:08 AM  

give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?


Well, there'd likely be less victims.
 
2013-05-20 09:10:08 AM  

serial_crusher: crazydave023: Why are our lawmakers acting like children?

Eh, I just watched the video.  The dad's making pleas for emotion without adding anything constructive to the debate.  We all get that your kid is dead dude, but preventing other people from defending themselves isn't going to make him any less dead.

So yeah, the guy had already established himself as a whiner, then came back up for round 2.  I would have told him to fark off too.



I've got an idea. If you need a one hundred round drum to protect yourself because a 9mm won't suffice...learn how to shoot.


/problem solved
//wipes hands on pants
 
2013-05-20 09:10:11 AM  
In all fairness, appeals to emotion aren't the best means of defining public policy.  My heart goes out for this parent and I desperately want to see better gun control in this country but at the same time I don't want to see governance by dead photo majority.

Of course this is no excuse for an elected representative being bought by special interests going against the will of 90% of the public.
 
2013-05-20 09:10:13 AM  

dittybopper: Listen, I feel sorry for anyone who has lost a loved one to violence. I really do. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that mass shootings are going to happen no matter what laws are passed, and they are going to happen at about the same rate and same level of victims as has been the case for over 30 years


Soo see

fark it, lets not try to discuss the matter at all nor even talk about ways to mitigate it

fark it people, move along

Right?
 
2013-05-20 09:12:58 AM  

DayeOfJustice: /When will people learn that you can't fight crazy with logic?


Waving around a picture of a dead person is not an attempt at logic.
 
2013-05-20 09:13:21 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: MichiganFTL: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

Heartless jerk... Don't you know that if someone shows you a picture of someone who died during X that we must accept them as a leading authority on subject X while banning X?

Also remember that we must do something to prevent x
Y is something
Lets do y!

(Doesn't matter if y actually will fix x)


What if it makes X worse or creates an undesired Z?
"Something" is a category that includes many things, some of which are the unfortunate or disastrous results that can result from carelessly monkeying with a system.

/And since when is "look at this picture of a dead person" the height of logical debate?
/The rights been posting pictures of dead fetuses for years and the left couldn't care less.
 
2013-05-20 09:13:22 AM  
And yet this conservative senator from Colorado Springs probably has no problem with anti-abortionists shoving pictures of fetuses in everyone's faces.
 
2013-05-20 09:13:25 AM  

serial_crusher: crazydave023: Why are our lawmakers acting like children?

Eh, I just watched the video.  The dad's making pleas for emotion without adding anything constructive to the debate.  We all get that your kid is dead dude, but preventing other people from defending themselves isn't going to make him any less dead.

So yeah, the guy had already established himself as a whiner, then came back up for round 2.  I would have told him to fark off too.


This is kind of the point of a Republic, it's supposed to insulate us from populist, flavor-of-the-month politics and knee-jerk emotional reactions.  But that's assuming we have good representatives who know what they're doing, and that goes for both sides, including Democrats who are so poorly informed they think that magazines are discarded after they're empty, and that a ban on "high capacity" magazines will quickly result in their disappearance.
 
2013-05-20 09:13:56 AM  
Stormed off to where?

Why a meeting to welcome Kim Jong Un and offer Most Favored Nation status when the GOP reclaims the US Senate in exchange for his speaking tour on his new book Conscience of a Real Conservative
 
2013-05-20 09:14:41 AM  

Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.


No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.
 
2013-05-20 09:15:42 AM  

Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.



Naw, that's bullshiat. The parent's of kids 15 - 20 who died at Sandy Hook understand that this would have happened no matter what. Nothing will fix anything, so its best to just do nothing and accept the consequences.
 
2013-05-20 09:16:21 AM  

dittybopper: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.


Hasn't every single one of these guys who's used a higher than standard capacity magazine had it jam?
 
2013-05-20 09:16:56 AM  

MichiganFTL: Heh.  Were you intentionally quoting Brenda Ann Spencer?

No, I was quoting Dreamworks who was quoting the Boomtown Rats.


And the Boomtown Rats were quoting Brenda Ann Spencer.

That song was inspired by her shooting up the school across the street from her home.

/TMYK
 
2013-05-20 09:17:02 AM  
Being a victim does not give you the moral authority to abrogate the rights of an entire nation's law-abiding citizenry.
 
2013-05-20 09:17:41 AM  
GOP shills do not like being reminded of what their souls look like.
 
2013-05-20 09:18:07 AM  

dittybopper: MichiganFTL: Heh.  Were you intentionally quoting Brenda Ann Spencer?

No, I was quoting Dreamworks who was quoting the Boomtown Rats.

And the Boomtown Rats were quoting Brenda Ann Spencer.

That song was inspired by her shooting up the school across the street from her home.

/TMYK


And Brenda Ann Spencer was quoting Garfield who was quoting every office drone ever.
 
2013-05-20 09:18:41 AM  

Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.


yeah.  because when you use a 10-round magazine you are not allowed to replace it with a full magazine when you empty it.
 
2013-05-20 09:21:17 AM  

dittybopper: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.



Oh, you're THAT guy. Wish I had run into you before the last Powerball drawing. But since you're on a roll, now tell us how last season would have turned out if RGIII hadn't hurt his knee.
 
2013-05-20 09:22:05 AM  

dittybopper: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.


So it turns out banning large capacity magazines isn't a big deal.
 
2013-05-20 09:22:22 AM  

MichiganFTL: dittybopper: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.

Hasn't every single one of these guys who's used a higher than standard capacity magazine had it jam?


I believe that is correct - or at least most of them.
okay, tin foil hat time.  the gop knows that these high capacity magazines tend to jam so they rather not outlaw them.  it is a form of gun control. so people who don't want gun control should fight to outlaw them.
 
2013-05-20 09:22:46 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

yeah.  because when you use a 10-round magazine you are not allowed to replace it with a full magazine when you empty it.


graphics8.nytimes.com

It's about increments.  First 15, then 10, then 7.  Then you can say that nobody really needs a semi-automatic weapon, they only get seven shots, and you can get revolvers that have six or seven shots.  Semi-automatics with the capacity to accept more than seven rounds are too dangerous for the public to own, it's commonsense to ban them because only a criminal has any use for them.
 
2013-05-20 09:23:32 AM  
Look, if we can't take unreasonable ineffective actions after someone dies, then when can we?

Besides, we're arresting Italian shotgun makers. What more do you want?
 
2013-05-20 09:24:37 AM  

dittybopper: DayeOfJustice: dittybopper: So the attempt at emotional blackmail didn't work?

The victim's dad was already successful since the gun laws had already been passed. There wasn't anything to gain by showing the politician the picture. So, blackmail wasn't a possibility.  He wanted him to understand the seriousness of the issue and not comport himself like a raging loon on the floor of the statehouse.

/When will people learn that you can't fight crazy with logic?

So he was just rubbing it in, then?

Listen, I feel sorry for anyone who has lost a loved one to violence.  I really do.  But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that mass shootings are going to happen no matter what laws are passed, and they are going to happen at about the same rate and same level of victims as has been the case for over 30 years



So while I do have empathy for people who have lost loved ones to violence, what I don't have is a willingness to blindly believe that their pain, albeit very real and very deep, should drive public policy in the face of data that shows that there is going to be zero effect that any possible law is going to have on these sorts of incidents, because for the last 30+ years, that has been the effect.  Zero.


I don't know who you think you are but there are people here with emotions and distrust of thing they don't know and understand and they need those guns banned damnit. why do you hate emotions?
 
2013-05-20 09:25:03 AM  
Weren't most of his victims killed by the 8 round capacity shotgun he had to switch to because his 100 round high capacity assault rifle jammed?
 
2013-05-20 09:25:14 AM  

dittybopper: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.

No there wouldn't.

His 100 magazine jammed after only 35 rounds.  Very large capacity magazines tend to do that.  Had he used several 10 round magazines instead, it's likely he wouldn't have had the jamming problem, and even if he *DID*, he could have cleared it very quickly by just swapping in a fresh magazine quickly.

And yes, you can change magazines extremely quickly with just a little bit of practice.


upload.wikimedia.org

Is amused.
 
2013-05-20 09:25:22 AM  

Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.


Funny, Cho over at V. Tech uses 10 and 15 round magazines, and he managed the deadliest mass shooting in the US. Of course, he brought a backpack full of spares and he chained the doors shut to keep cops out and victims in, so I guess death tolls are more complicated than rounds in the mag?
 
2013-05-20 09:27:05 AM  

Mrbogey: Look, if we can't take unreasonable ineffective actions after someone dies, then when can we?

Besides, we're arresting Italian shotgun makers. What more do you want?


Two things other than death and taxes: There's always money in the banana stand and there's opportunity in tragedy. Republicans to start pointless and ineffective wars to pander to a base in response to a tragedy, Democrats to pass pointless and ineffective laws to pander to a base in response to a tragedy.
 
2013-05-20 09:27:41 AM  

DROxINxTHExWIND: Skarekrough: give me doughnuts: "What I will tell you sir is that my son was murdered in the Aurora theater by a man who had bought a 100-round drum and murdered my son," Sullivan said.

Would it have been better if he had been shot by a man who bought a 10-round magazine?

Well, there'd likely be less victims.


Naw, that's bullshiat. The parent's of kids 15 - 20 who died at Sandy Hook understand that this would have happened no matter what. Nothing will fix anything, so its best to just do nothing and accept the consequences.


It's right there in the text: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, no matter what the unintended consequences or collateral damage, for ever and ever, and this one particular amendment may never be altered based on the changing circumstances of civilization."

/Seems pretty straightforward. That's what you get for being born in a society that loves freedom so much, kids.  You get dead. Next reincarnation, try being born in some freedom-hating shiathole like Britain or Canada and see how that works out for you.
 
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