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(Inland Valley Daily Bulletin)   Defense lawyers argue with Court over sentencing rapist cop who committed suicide in jail: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead"   ( dailybulletin.com) divider line
    More: Strange, defense lawyers, Anthony Orban, rapists, superior courts, jail  
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9562 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 May 2013 at 7:12 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



122 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-05-19 05:10:23 PM  
Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?
 
2013-05-19 05:16:08 PM  
This just in! Legal systems are not mechanisms of justice or bastions of reason.

News at 11.
 
2013-05-19 05:23:10 PM  
There is no precedent for this?
 
2013-05-19 05:24:11 PM  
If he's dead, what the fark difference does it make whether or not he's sentenced?
 
2013-05-19 05:28:52 PM  
I think he should get the death penalty. Might as well make the punishment fit the outcome.
 
2013-05-19 05:32:33 PM  
Just sentence him to time served.
 
2013-05-19 06:08:09 PM  

VelcroFez: Just sentence him to time served.


Awesome.
 
2013-05-19 06:26:03 PM  
Isn't that the Ken Lay defense?
 
2013-05-19 06:39:03 PM  

Barfmaker: VelcroFez: Just sentence him to time served.

Awesome.


Aaaaand, the eh, the eh, that's all, folks!
 
2013-05-19 06:45:23 PM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?
 
2013-05-19 06:48:35 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?


I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.
 
2013-05-19 07:00:19 PM  
By the time he's sentenced, he won't be appealing.
 
2013-05-19 07:13:50 PM  

Relatively Obscure: If he's dead, what the fark difference does it make whether or not he's sentenced?


If she's dead, what the fark difference does it make if I stick my dick in her?

/or is this a bad analogy?
 
2013-05-19 07:16:45 PM  

WhippingBoy: Relatively Obscure: If he's dead, what the fark difference does it make whether or not he's sentenced?

If she's dead, what the fark difference does it make if I stick my dick in her?

/or is this a bad analogy?


So, this turned into a snuff film thread?
 
2013-05-19 07:18:31 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: By the time he's sentenced, he won't be appealing.


I'd wager he's pretty damned unappealing already.
 
2013-05-19 07:19:01 PM  
So, does this mean that Lee Harvey Oswald DIDN'T shoot Kennedy, since LHO was never convicted let alone sentenced?
 
2013-05-19 07:22:26 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Isn't that the Ken Lay defense?


Also known as the Aspen Pardon. Take one for the team, literally, to save your family.
 
2013-05-19 07:23:49 PM  
In the immortal words of Saint Hillary Clinton, "what difference at this point does it make?"
 
2013-05-19 07:26:39 PM  
if he gets life it going to get stinky
 
2013-05-19 07:27:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


Which is why I'm really confused that the defense attorney doesn't want to move for a dismissal.  I would think a dismissal even at this stage would be as good as never having been convicted for pension purposes.
 
2013-05-19 07:27:29 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


How would beneficiaries be robbed?

They earned nothing themselves.
 
WGJ [TotalFark]
2013-05-19 07:28:12 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


If that were the case, no cops would get a pension.
 
2013-05-19 07:31:53 PM  
But, but, paperwork must be finished.
Can't just write "he dead" on the paperwork and expect everyone to ignore that the sentencing wasn't completed.

/We must have paperwork order, otherwise you'd get some crazy shiat like the President pardoning people at the end of his term in violation of what the Judge decreed. /s
 
2013-05-19 07:34:46 PM  
Seems like a waste of resources to sentence him...
 
2013-05-19 07:41:42 PM  
TuteTibiImperes:

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.
 
2013-05-19 07:43:21 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


What about any restitution he might be order to pay to his victim? I could see his survivors not wanting to lose anything out of his estate, but that debt should still be recognized.
 
2013-05-19 07:47:18 PM  
If there's moving forward with sentencing is meaningless, why would the defense have a problem with it?
 
2013-05-19 07:50:48 PM  
They should let the victims take turns sodomizong the corpse with found objects
 
2013-05-19 07:51:17 PM  
"I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?
 
2013-05-19 07:52:39 PM  
TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?
 
2013-05-19 07:53:34 PM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


If you don't have the sentencing, he is free of any restitution, still has pension rights, etc.  Remember Ken Lay (Enron).
 
2013-05-19 07:53:51 PM  

HandleWithCare: TuteTibiImperes:

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.


Usually not pensions.  What would cause problems is not being in service long enough to vest the benefit.

And it isn't quite true that suicide voids most life insurance policies.  Most have a time limit the policy has to be in force for (usually 2-4 years) to prevent fraudulent purchase.  But once you are past that limitation, the benefit is generally paid no matter how you die.
 
2013-05-19 07:54:05 PM  

JesseL: If there's moving forward with sentencing is meaningless, why would the defense have a problem with it?


Probably because the case was on the calendar & the defense lawyer had to show up.  Once present, why not point out the absurdity of the situation?
 
2013-05-19 07:58:38 PM  
images.bridgemanart.com
 
2013-05-19 08:01:13 PM  

madgonad: TuteTibiImperes: Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.

How would beneficiaries be robbed?

They earned nothing themselves.


Yeah, fark inheritance, too. Learn to be boostrappy you verminous spawn!
 
2013-05-19 08:01:18 PM  
No ham sandwich indictments on the docket, I take?
 
2013-05-19 08:03:30 PM  
Case Dismissed. EOS
 
2013-05-19 08:04:57 PM  

HandleWithCare: TuteTibiImperes:

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.


Only during the time period that the suicide clause is in effect, anywhere from 1 to 5 years (3 is the most common). As far as pension, his term of service and any termination clauses would affect that. If he wasn't on the force long enough or the fact that he committed felony rape while on the job would be issues, not a suicide.
 
2013-05-19 08:05:57 PM  
Maybe judges don't get paid if there's no sentence.
 
2013-05-19 08:08:48 PM  
The dirtbag is dead. A sentence is moot.

As for public servant pensions, when you're convicted of a crime you generally lose your pension and any benefits. That especially goes for felonies. There's no benefits to sue for.

/26 years til I retire with a pension
 
2013-05-19 08:10:23 PM  
HandleWithCare:  It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.

Your "understanding" is wrong.  Google for "life insurance 2 year rule " and you'll get plenty of explanation.
 
2013-05-19 08:12:57 PM  
Please don't give him life. Please don't give him life. Please don't give him....JESUS H. CHRIST, IT'S A ZOMBIE!
 
2013-05-19 08:13:37 PM  

JesseL: If there's moving forward with sentencing is meaningless, why would the defense have a problem with it?


That was my first thought.  And my guess is that the victim or the victims family will have some kind of claim on the criminals estate, assuming the court shows a conviction and sentence, and the criminals lawyer is still fighting to keep that from getting paid out.  It's possible that there is something related to his pension or whatever, also.

Regardless, he's a kidnapper and rapist, and I don't give a flying fark about him or his family or his lawyer.  Give him whatever sentence you would have given, tell the lawyer to go fark himself, and move on to the next case.
 
2013-05-19 08:13:52 PM  

rockforever: [images.bridgemanart.com image 400x265]


We're done.
 
2013-05-19 08:16:22 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I'd wager he's pretty damned unappealing already.


I'd wager you're right. And with a name like Marcus Aurelius, I'm sure you'd like a mention to Damnatio memoriae thrown out, which was a punishment sometimes given to the dead.
 
2013-05-19 08:19:32 PM  
What we have here are a judge and victim who feel it's important to "send a message" to other potential rapists.

Maybe the victim has a bet on how seriously the judge takes her rape.
 
2013-05-19 08:19:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


I'm not sure how benefits work in that system, but... wouldn't there be some kind of a case for the victim to get his pension if she sued civilly? After all, that pension is technically "his" money, regardless of whether or not he is alive, and is paid to beneficiaries because he is no longer alive to receive it. So if the victim sued his estate in civil court for damages (which, in today's ridiculously litigious society, is a distinct possibility), wouldn't that money go to her until the damages awarded were paid in full? Could that be why the defense attorney is pushing to get the sentencing dropped? (Personally, I agree: how the holy fark do you sentence a dead person--it's pretty farking stupid. I'm just asking a legitimate question because I'm curious to know if #1 the convicted cop keeps the benefits and #2 if the victim would have a shot in hell of getting them awarded to her if she did sue)
 
2013-05-19 08:23:08 PM  
The judge is being retarded. The charges can't be dismissed as he is already convicted; a conviction ends the guilt phase of the trial. Sentencing can't go forward because there is no longer anyone to sentence. The proper legal term for what follows is an "administrative closure." This happens in civil cases when one side files a case and then fails to prosecute it within the time frame as required by the rules of civil procedures. So all the judge needs to do is order the case closed. It really is simple.
 
2013-05-19 08:25:33 PM  

JuggleGeek: That was my first thought. And my guess is that the victim or the victims family will have some kind of claim on the criminals estate, assuming the court shows a conviction and sentence, and the criminals lawyer is still fighting to keep that from getting paid out. It's possible that there is something related to his pension or whatever, also.


All that is needed is the conviction. The sentence is irrelevant.
 
2013-05-19 08:26:27 PM  

sheep snorter: But, but, paperwork must be finished.
Can't just write "he dead" on the paperwork and expect everyone to ignore that the sentencing wasn't completed.

/We must have paperwork order, otherwise you'd get some crazy shiat like the President pardoning people at the end of his term in violation of what the Judge decreed. /s


You know who else were fanatics about paper work?

/Sorry couldn't resist.
 
2013-05-19 08:27:24 PM  

Aigoo: TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.

I'm not sure how benefits work in that system, but... wouldn't there be some kind of a case for the victim to get his pension if she sued civilly? After all, that pension is technically "his" money, regardless of whether or not he is alive, and is paid to beneficiaries because he is no longer alive to receive it. So if the victim sued his estate in civil court for damages (which, in today's ridiculously litigious society, is a distinct possibility), wouldn't that money go to her until the damages awarded were paid in full? Could that be why the defense attorney is pushing to get the sentencing dropped? (Personally, I agree: how the holy fark do you sentence a dead person--it's pretty farking stupid. I'm just asking a legitimate question because I'm curious to know if #1 the convicted cop keeps the benefits and #2 if the victim would have a shot in hell of getting them awarded to her if she did sue)


Sure, she can sue his estate.  But only his conviction matters as evidence in a civil suit; his sentence would be irrelevant.  Her desire to hear a sentence is a desire to hear a whopping LONG sentence, to have her sense of violation validated.  She wouldn't be happy if the judge handed down probation.
 
2013-05-19 08:27:36 PM  

worlddan: JuggleGeek: That was my first thought. And my guess is that the victim or the victims family will have some kind of claim on the criminals estate, assuming the court shows a conviction and sentence, and the criminals lawyer is still fighting to keep that from getting paid out. It's possible that there is something related to his pension or whatever, also.

All that is needed is the conviction. The sentence is irrelevant.


They had conviction in June.
 
2013-05-19 08:29:14 PM  

"Hey! This sounds like this would make a good short story!"


www.randomhouse.com

 
2013-05-19 08:35:00 PM  
I'm preeety sure he's guilty
 
2013-05-19 08:38:32 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


He didn't care about his family which was his responsibility. If his actions warranted the loss of pension and survivor benefits, why should society do something different just because he killed himself and avoided sentencing? That makes no sense. It would be a dick move to bend the rules only because we feel sorry for his family.
 
2013-05-19 08:39:36 PM  
I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.
 
2013-05-19 08:40:08 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Her desire to hear a sentence is a desire to hear a whopping LONG sentence, to have her sense of violation validated.  She wouldn't be happy if the judge handed down probation.


And a long sentence would have been very unlikely.

The prison guard who helped Detective Orban kidnap the waitress was sentenced to five years but it looks like he's already out.
 
2013-05-19 08:43:37 PM  
"I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead"

si0.twimg.com
 
2013-05-19 08:51:10 PM  

lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.


It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back
 
2013-05-19 08:52:41 PM  

jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?


If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.


/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?
 
2013-05-19 08:54:47 PM  
If you give him life sentences he could come back to life so why not just stamp "deceased" on the file and close it
 
NFA
2013-05-19 08:58:05 PM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


It probably prevents the state from having to pay his heirs benefit.  Just guessing of course...
 
2013-05-19 08:59:15 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?


The guy was only a cop for five years. What kind of pension do you think one qualifies for after 5 years of service terminated by a felony conviction?
 
2013-05-19 08:59:16 PM  

AbbeySomeone: jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?

If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.

/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?



Did you read TFA?  Because this makes no sense whatsoever.

The crime (rape) occurred before any part of the rape trial (which should be obvious).  The rapist committed suicide after his conviction and obviously after he had committed the rape for which he was convicted.

/ or were you being sarcastic & I just missed it?
 
2013-05-19 09:02:03 PM  

rockforever: [images.bridgemanart.com image 400x265]


/Came for the Boniface VIII reference and was satisfied by rockforever
 
2013-05-19 09:04:28 PM  

sheep snorter: But, but, paperwork must be finished.
Can't just write "he dead" on the paperwork and expect everyone to ignore that the sentencing wasn't completed.

/We must have paperwork order, otherwise you'd get some crazy shiat like the President pardoning people at the end of his term in violation of what the Judge decreed. /s


Vogons everywhere vogons
 
2013-05-19 09:06:27 PM  

Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?


I'm a teacher.  This likely comes from high school writing assignments with a specific word limit.  By the time people reach my classes, they are so needlessly wordy that I spend the first half of the semester teaching the "Paramedic Method" to cut out the lard.  By the end of the semester, 50% are clear and concise, and the other 50% think I'm a silly twat who just doesn't know good writing.
 
2013-05-19 09:14:01 PM  
I would sentence him to life!
And I would write in the files "I'm here all week people, don't forget to tip your waitress."
 
2013-05-19 09:16:45 PM  

jshine: AbbeySomeone: jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?

If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.

/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?


Did you read TFA?  Because this makes no sense whatsoever.

The crime (rape) occurred before any part of the rape trial (which should be obvious).  The rapist committed suicide after his conviction and obviously after he had committed the rape for which he was convicted.

/ or were you being sarcastic & I just missed it?


Tippling sarcasm.

/dnrtfa
 
2013-05-19 09:22:15 PM  
I hope he gets raped in jail, that'll learn em
 
2013-05-19 09:22:31 PM  
Makes sense to me.  Make his legacy a conviction and whatever sentence goes with it.  He doesn't get to dictate the terms of his conviction by killing himself.
 
2013-05-19 09:28:24 PM  
Who's paying the defence lawyer? Why doesn't he just withdraw his services on the basis that his client seems to no longer be giving him instructions.
 
2013-05-19 09:31:30 PM  

poison_amy: Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?

I'm a teacher.  This likely comes from high school writing assignments with a specific word limit.  By the time people reach my classes, they are so needlessly wordy that I spend the first half of the semester teaching the "Paramedic Method" to cut out the lard.  By the end of the semester, 50% are clear and concise, and the other 50% think I'm a silly twat who just doesn't know good writing.


Mark Twain's Top Ten Writing Tips.
 
2013-05-19 09:37:56 PM  

karst: /Came for the Boniface VIII reference and was satisfied by rockforever


His reference was to the posthumous trial of Pope Formosus (the Cadaver Synod), not the posthumous trial of Boniface VIII.
 
2013-05-19 09:40:12 PM  

HandleWithCare: TuteTibiImperes:

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.


Most life insurance policies have a first 2 years exclusion for suicide.
 
2013-05-19 09:44:05 PM  
John Wycliffe died in 1384.  That didn't stop the One and Only Real True Holy Mother Church® from excommunicating him in 1415 and burning his remains in 1428.

An appropriate sentence for this cop:  string him from a lamppost and let the crows take care of him.
 
2013-05-19 09:51:23 PM  
All else being equal, I don't see how the case goes forward... included in due process is the right/ability to participate in your own defense... given the apparent impossibility of this, I can't see how this could move to the sentencing phase and be adjudicated without the defendant. Easiest citations would be in mental health cases, he's clearly not of sound mind, now that he's dead anyways... last we heard he was pretty suicidal.
 
2013-05-19 09:53:33 PM  

jshine: lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.

It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back


Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Now if you excuse me I need to go accuse my neighbor of witchcraft and burn her at the stake.
 
2013-05-19 10:05:26 PM  
Precedent will probably say the case should be dismissed, but I'd like see some legislation that would mandate that people in this position be given life sentences. Remember, Ken Lay's wife walked off with a ton of money and Ken Lay's guilty verdict was tossed out.
 
2013-05-19 10:05:48 PM  

jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?


Considering the amount of buttdiscomfort expressed over the location of burying a dead terror suspect, over is relative to dollar amount and medias humoring whomever is in camera at a given moment.
 
2013-05-19 10:10:58 PM  
FU website that forces me to choose between either accepting or rejecting to download your stupid shiat app, before I can read your article
 
2013-05-19 10:11:20 PM  
Hello??  It's called a detergent.  Let this be a lesson to other dead cops.
 
2013-05-19 10:12:58 PM  
I say pass the body around to necrophiliac prisoners for a week and call it good....
 
2013-05-19 10:17:08 PM  

firefly212: included in due process is the right/ability to participate in your own defense...


Waived when he voluntarily left after the start of the trial.

Roman Polanski was sentenced after he fled the country.
 
2013-05-19 10:26:13 PM  

trappedspirit: Hello??  It's called a detergent.  Let this be a lesson to other dead cops.


I think you mean it's called a detective.
 
2013-05-19 10:41:18 PM  
www.snurcher.com

"The sentencing will not be lengthy."
 
2013-05-19 10:50:58 PM  

lasercannon: jshine: lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.

It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Now if you excuse me I need to go accuse my neighbor of witchcraft and burn her at the stake.


That's for heresie, ye damned foreigner! Ye English folk hold yt witcherie is a civil crime and thus is punished by hanging! And a good quarter-cord of firewood is too costlie a thinge now in ye cold winteres of late to be let waste upon every strumpet yt ye thinks maie be castinge grimourie upon hir neighboures' kine. Ye canne make sondrie uses of a length of good hempe.
 
2013-05-19 10:55:15 PM  

www.nndb.com

I died guilty. But, I was innocent when they buried that other guy's body.
Ask me how.

 
2013-05-19 10:58:29 PM  

Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on going ahead and inserting things like this into a sentence?


FTFY
 
2013-05-19 11:04:25 PM  
We should sentence him to pre-sentencing suicide.
 
2013-05-19 11:13:59 PM  
What if he is reincarnated? He wouldn't serve any prison time! None of you smart guys thought of that, did you?

/shamelessly stolen from Richard Pryor.
 
2013-05-19 11:23:03 PM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


The defense attorney mentioned the possibility of restitution. I don't know if that's usual in rape cases in his jurisdiction, but supposing it is, it's possible the restitution could be paid out of his estate. That's one difference sentencing a dead person could in theory make. Though absent that, it does seem pointless.
 
2013-05-19 11:30:49 PM  
"Defense lawyers argue with Court over sentencing rapist cop who committed suicide in jail: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead""

Sure can't give him life.
 
2013-05-19 11:39:53 PM  
You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground." Why that will finish it for you where hearing this shiatbag took the coward's way out and hung himself in his cell, I can't imagine. My guess is, it won't.

If I had been raped by some dirtbag cop, and he hung himself instead of facing justice, I'd be dancing on his shiat-strewn grave, and screw sentencing him. But someone sold this poor girl on the idea of "closure" and now she can't get past that. Which is sad.
 
2013-05-19 11:47:35 PM  
Another hero of the blue shirt.

Thankfully, he's now a good cop.
 
2013-05-20 12:03:46 AM  

TV's Vinnie: So, does this mean that Lee Harvey Oswald DIDN'T shoot Kennedy, since LHO was never convicted let alone sentenced?


Well the "allegedly" thing is usually reserved for still living suspects.
 
2013-05-20 12:33:00 AM  

bugontherug: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

The defense attorney mentioned the possibility of restitution. I don't know if that's usual in rape cases in his jurisdiction, but supposing it is, it's possible the restitution could be paid out of his estate. That's one difference sentencing a dead person could in theory make. Though absent that, it does seem pointless.


Specifically:
After the hearing, Blatt said the court has lost the jurisdiction to sentence Orban because he is dead.

"There is no one to sentence, there is no one to order restitution to," he said.



He's incorrect, though, because he screwed up the preposition - the victim is the one to order restitution  to, the decedent is the one you order restitution  from. And in this case, the decedent's estate is who you order restitution from.
 
2013-05-20 12:33:08 AM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground." Why that will finish it for you where hearing this shiatbag took the coward's way out and hung himself in his cell, I can't imagine. My guess is, it won't.

If I had been raped by some dirtbag cop, and he hung himself instead of facing justice, I'd be dancing on his shiat-strewn grave, and screw sentencing him. But someone sold this poor girl on the idea of "closure" and now she can't get past that. Which is sad.


...aaand, I think we're done here. (*bangs gavel*)

I was just going to make a snide remark about the obscene preoccupation with empty abstractions in the American legal system. But, yeah: that doesn't much hold a candle to the Cult of Closure that's infested our thinking about criminal justice over the last 20 years.

Somehow, we rather suddenly got this very strange notion that the system is/could/should be about "restoring" victims of crime--when nothing about how that system evolved over the last 700-or-so years suggests that makes a lick of sense.
 
2013-05-20 12:34:43 AM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground."


"The defendant is also sentenced to pay $100k in restitution and compensatory damages for the victim's medical bills, psychological counseling, and pain and suffering. Since he's in the ground, his estate and pension are attached."
 
2013-05-20 12:37:55 AM  

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over.


The victim isn't a party to this nonsense, just a spectator.  The  defenseattorney is crazy.  He refused to  request that the case be dismissed, the usual & sensible way to dispose of such things.  He wants to leave it in limbo, unfinished and off the calendar. You just can't do that.
 
2013-05-20 12:40:40 AM  
If the judge sentences him to life he'll immediately be in contempt of court and then he'll really be in trouble.
 
2013-05-20 12:52:50 AM  
But mostly it will screw with the lawyers win/loss average.
 
2013-05-20 01:15:52 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: The victim isn't a party to this nonsense, just a spectator.  The  defenseattorney is crazy.  He refused to  request that the case be dismissed, the usual & sensible way to dispose of such things.  He wants to leave it in limbo, unfinished and off the calendar. You just can't do that.


The courts don't operate in a cultural vacuum. The only reason we hear the victim's view is because, for the writer and the average reader of that article, the need for "closure" is regarded as a perfectly reasonable counter-point to idea that it's kind of silly to be sentencing a dead man. In some other context, I have to believe that the case would have been quickly and quietly disposed of without the option of sentencing ever being entertained -- simply to avoid public ridicule.

As to the second point: not a lawyer, so I'll defer to others more knowledgeable. However, this quote:

"The only reason he is not here is because he volunteered to take his own life," Shabet said.

...suggests to me that what the defense is suggesting is not "crazy" at all. That's a pretty narrow rationale for denying the request. What's crazy (at least to us lay folk) is that the court should give any shiat whatsoever whether the guy died by suicide vs. being hit by a truck.
 
2013-05-20 01:24:37 AM  
Sentence the vile corpse.
 
2013-05-20 01:25:06 AM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?




toyadams.files.wordpress.com
Hmmmmm, I wonder.
 
2013-05-20 01:26:40 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Isn't that the Ken Lay defense?


www-deadline-com.vimg.net

Don't worry, no defense, for his, ass. ahahahahahahahahha
 
2013-05-20 01:28:32 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over.

The victim isn't a party to this nonsense, just a spectator.  The  defenseattorney is crazy.  He refused to  request that the case be dismissed, the usual & sensible way to dispose of such things.  He wants to leave it in limbo, unfinished and off the calendar. You just can't do that.


Thank you. Crazy people are over here saying it's crazy to even...
 
2013-05-20 01:45:13 AM  
Just wait until they haul him back into court for failing to register as a sex offender.

/sentenced in extreme absentia
//if he is sentenced to death, does he still get all of his appeals?
 
2013-05-20 02:05:52 AM  

Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?


For the same reason people use an exclamation mark when a period is a perfectly good type of punctuation.

/stop trying to deplete the passive-agressives' verbal toolbox
 
2013-05-20 03:23:15 AM  

Relatively Obscure: If he's dead, what the fark difference does it make whether or not he's sentenced?


he could come back like the mythical fantasy being known as the 1st zombie jesus.  then sentencing would matter
 
2013-05-20 03:28:32 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?

For the same reason people use an exclamation mark when a period is a perfectly good type of punctuation.

/stop trying to deplete the passive-agressives' verbal toolbox


Minus the passive-aggressives, the content of Fark threads would be cut in half.

Think of the children?!

/a period would have been a perfectly good way to end that sentence.
//Interrobang, because fark you, that's why.
 
2013-05-20 03:48:21 AM  

Theaetetus: Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground."

"The defendant is also sentenced to pay $100k in restitution and compensatory damages for the victim's medical bills, psychological counseling, and pain and suffering. Since he's in the ground, his estate and pension are attached."


He may have forfeited his pension by being found guilty of a felony. Then what would they do?
 
2013-05-20 06:08:42 AM  

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


So the system works as best it can for the victim. Closure. I can see that.

But here's another question which is baking my noodle somewhat: what is the point of a defence lawyer turning up at a sentencing hearing to represent a dead man?
 
2013-05-20 06:20:40 AM  

lasercannon: jshine: lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.

It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Now if you excuse me I need to go accuse my neighbor of witchcraft and burn her at the stake.


Would you like to borrow my larger scales?
 
2013-05-20 06:53:01 AM  
Reverse the conviction, pronounce him innocent and order him released from custody. Suddenly, in court, everyone hears "D'oh!!!" from the defense table, and people everywhere laughed and laughed.

\CSB
 
2013-05-20 08:11:23 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Theaetetus: Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground."

"The defendant is also sentenced to pay $100k in restitution and compensatory damages for the victim's medical bills, psychological counseling, and pain and suffering. Since he's in the ground, his estate and pension are attached."

He may have forfeited his pension by being found guilty of a felony. Then what would they do?


Depends on who 'they' is.

They (the victim) would receive 100k, if possible, from the remaining portion of the estate.
They (the criminal's family) would pay 100k, if possible, from the remaining portion of the estate.
They (the judge) would move on to another case.
They (the prosecutor) would move on to another case .
They (the defense attorney) would move on to another case.
They (the criminal) would continue to rot.
 
2013-05-20 08:11:54 AM  

PartTimeBuddha: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

So the system works as best it can for the victim. Closure. I can see that.

But here's another question which is baking my noodle somewhat: what is the point of a defence lawyer turning up at a sentencing hearing to represent a dead man?


Billable hours? He prob figured he can get a few more hearings out of a dead guy. Best client ever.
 
2013-05-20 08:14:52 AM  

NickelP: PartTimeBuddha: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

So the system works as best it can for the victim. Closure. I can see that.

But here's another question which is baking my noodle somewhat: what is the point of a defence lawyer turning up at a sentencing hearing to represent a dead man?

Billable hours? He prob figured he can get a few more hearings out of a dead guy. Best client ever.


Not to mention he gets a free pass to research the claim until the summer. From now on the time spent banging the paralegal is just going to get billed to this guys estate. Iirc attorney fees always come out of the estate before anything else.
 
2013-05-20 08:52:50 AM  

DarkVader: Which is why I'm really confused that the defense attorney doesn't want to move for a dismissal. I would think a dismissal even at this stage would be as good as never having been convicted for pension purposes.


Maybe not.  In Alabama, sanctions kick in once you're convicted.  For example, if you're an elected official you're considered removed from office immediately upon conviction.  Literally from the moment the jury says guilty, you're out.  Same thing for public employees convicted of a crime related to their public position.  Once convicted, the pension is gone no matter how long sentencing takes.

Totally guessing, but I bet since the verdict's been rendered, the defense needs to get sentencing done so they can initiate an appeal.  If Cali's got a pension law like Alabama (you lose it if convicted of a felony related to your position), they've got to get the initial conviction tossed to get the survivor's benefits.
 
2013-05-20 09:06:05 AM  

Relatively Obscure: If he's dead, what the fark difference does it make whether or not he's sentenced?


To kill off his pension, which is a reason some corrupt cops off themselves...to protect their money to their families.
 
2013-05-20 03:18:20 PM  

RickN99: They (the criminal) would continue to rot.


And in other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
 
2013-05-20 11:20:33 PM  

poison_amy: By the end of the semester, 50% are clear and concise, and the other 50% think I'm a silly twat who just doesn't know good writing.


And 100% are correct.
 
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