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(Inland Valley Daily Bulletin)   Defense lawyers argue with Court over sentencing rapist cop who committed suicide in jail: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead"   (dailybulletin.com) divider line 122
    More: Strange, defense lawyers, Anthony Orban, rapists, superior courts, jail  
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9526 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 May 2013 at 7:12 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-19 08:27:24 PM

Aigoo: TuteTibiImperes: Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.

I'm not sure how benefits work in that system, but... wouldn't there be some kind of a case for the victim to get his pension if she sued civilly? After all, that pension is technically "his" money, regardless of whether or not he is alive, and is paid to beneficiaries because he is no longer alive to receive it. So if the victim sued his estate in civil court for damages (which, in today's ridiculously litigious society, is a distinct possibility), wouldn't that money go to her until the damages awarded were paid in full? Could that be why the defense attorney is pushing to get the sentencing dropped? (Personally, I agree: how the holy fark do you sentence a dead person--it's pretty farking stupid. I'm just asking a legitimate question because I'm curious to know if #1 the convicted cop keeps the benefits and #2 if the victim would have a shot in hell of getting them awarded to her if she did sue)


Sure, she can sue his estate.  But only his conviction matters as evidence in a civil suit; his sentence would be irrelevant.  Her desire to hear a sentence is a desire to hear a whopping LONG sentence, to have her sense of violation validated.  She wouldn't be happy if the judge handed down probation.
 
2013-05-19 08:27:36 PM

worlddan: JuggleGeek: That was my first thought. And my guess is that the victim or the victims family will have some kind of claim on the criminals estate, assuming the court shows a conviction and sentence, and the criminals lawyer is still fighting to keep that from getting paid out. It's possible that there is something related to his pension or whatever, also.

All that is needed is the conviction. The sentence is irrelevant.


They had conviction in June.
 
2013-05-19 08:29:14 PM

"Hey! This sounds like this would make a good short story!"


www.randomhouse.com

 
2013-05-19 08:35:00 PM
I'm preeety sure he's guilty
 
2013-05-19 08:38:32 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

Still, it would be a dick move to try to rob his beneficiaries of any benefits just because this guy was an asshole.


He didn't care about his family which was his responsibility. If his actions warranted the loss of pension and survivor benefits, why should society do something different just because he killed himself and avoided sentencing? That makes no sense. It would be a dick move to bend the rules only because we feel sorry for his family.
 
2013-05-19 08:39:36 PM
I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.
 
2013-05-19 08:40:08 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Her desire to hear a sentence is a desire to hear a whopping LONG sentence, to have her sense of violation validated.  She wouldn't be happy if the judge handed down probation.


And a long sentence would have been very unlikely.

The prison guard who helped Detective Orban kidnap the waitress was sentenced to five years but it looks like he's already out.
 
2013-05-19 08:43:37 PM
"I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead"

si0.twimg.com
 
2013-05-19 08:51:10 PM

lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.


It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back
 
2013-05-19 08:52:41 PM

jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?


If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.


/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?
 
2013-05-19 08:54:47 PM
If you give him life sentences he could come back to life so why not just stamp "deceased" on the file and close it
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-05-19 08:58:05 PM

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


It probably prevents the state from having to pay his heirs benefit.  Just guessing of course...
 
2013-05-19 08:59:15 PM

Marcus Aurelius: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

I suppose it all depends on the terms of his police union pension, doesn't it?


The guy was only a cop for five years. What kind of pension do you think one qualifies for after 5 years of service terminated by a felony conviction?
 
2013-05-19 08:59:16 PM

AbbeySomeone: jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?

If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.

/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?



Did you read TFA?  Because this makes no sense whatsoever.

The crime (rape) occurred before any part of the rape trial (which should be obvious).  The rapist committed suicide after his conviction and obviously after he had committed the rape for which he was convicted.

/ or were you being sarcastic & I just missed it?
 
2013-05-19 09:02:03 PM

rockforever: [images.bridgemanart.com image 400x265]


/Came for the Boniface VIII reference and was satisfied by rockforever
 
2013-05-19 09:04:28 PM

sheep snorter: But, but, paperwork must be finished.
Can't just write "he dead" on the paperwork and expect everyone to ignore that the sentencing wasn't completed.

/We must have paperwork order, otherwise you'd get some crazy shiat like the President pardoning people at the end of his term in violation of what the Judge decreed. /s


Vogons everywhere vogons
 
2013-05-19 09:06:27 PM

Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?


I'm a teacher.  This likely comes from high school writing assignments with a specific word limit.  By the time people reach my classes, they are so needlessly wordy that I spend the first half of the semester teaching the "Paramedic Method" to cut out the lard.  By the end of the semester, 50% are clear and concise, and the other 50% think I'm a silly twat who just doesn't know good writing.
 
2013-05-19 09:14:01 PM
I would sentence him to life!
And I would write in the files "I'm here all week people, don't forget to tip your waitress."
 
2013-05-19 09:16:45 PM

jshine: AbbeySomeone: jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?

If they were convicted and imprisoned before the postponement nobody would have been raped and it just never really happened and she would have had to find another venue for her anguish.

/be f*ckin' sensitive OK?


Did you read TFA?  Because this makes no sense whatsoever.

The crime (rape) occurred before any part of the rape trial (which should be obvious).  The rapist committed suicide after his conviction and obviously after he had committed the rape for which he was convicted.

/ or were you being sarcastic & I just missed it?


Tippling sarcasm.

/dnrtfa
 
2013-05-19 09:22:15 PM
I hope he gets raped in jail, that'll learn em
 
2013-05-19 09:22:31 PM
Makes sense to me.  Make his legacy a conviction and whatever sentence goes with it.  He doesn't get to dictate the terms of his conviction by killing himself.
 
2013-05-19 09:28:24 PM
Who's paying the defence lawyer? Why doesn't he just withdraw his services on the basis that his client seems to no longer be giving him instructions.
 
2013-05-19 09:31:30 PM

poison_amy: Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on inserting things like this into a sentence?

I'm a teacher.  This likely comes from high school writing assignments with a specific word limit.  By the time people reach my classes, they are so needlessly wordy that I spend the first half of the semester teaching the "Paramedic Method" to cut out the lard.  By the end of the semester, 50% are clear and concise, and the other 50% think I'm a silly twat who just doesn't know good writing.


Mark Twain's Top Ten Writing Tips.
 
2013-05-19 09:37:56 PM

karst: /Came for the Boniface VIII reference and was satisfied by rockforever


His reference was to the posthumous trial of Pope Formosus (the Cadaver Synod), not the posthumous trial of Boniface VIII.
 
2013-05-19 09:40:12 PM

HandleWithCare: TuteTibiImperes:

I was wondering something along those lines - if his pension/retirement/life-insurance benefits would somehow depend on how he was sentenced, but it seems more likely that those would depend on conviction rather than a sentence.

It's my understanding that committing suicide invalidates most, if not all, life insurance policies.  Not sure if it would affect pension/retirement though.


Most life insurance policies have a first 2 years exclusion for suicide.
 
2013-05-19 09:44:05 PM
John Wycliffe died in 1384.  That didn't stop the One and Only Real True Holy Mother Church® from excommunicating him in 1415 and burning his remains in 1428.

An appropriate sentence for this cop:  string him from a lamppost and let the crows take care of him.
 
2013-05-19 09:51:23 PM
All else being equal, I don't see how the case goes forward... included in due process is the right/ability to participate in your own defense... given the apparent impossibility of this, I can't see how this could move to the sentencing phase and be adjudicated without the defendant. Easiest citations would be in mental health cases, he's clearly not of sound mind, now that he's dead anyways... last we heard he was pretty suicidal.
 
2013-05-19 09:53:33 PM

jshine: lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.

It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back


Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Now if you excuse me I need to go accuse my neighbor of witchcraft and burn her at the stake.
 
2013-05-19 10:05:26 PM
Precedent will probably say the case should be dismissed, but I'd like see some legislation that would mandate that people in this position be given life sentences. Remember, Ken Lay's wife walked off with a ton of money and Ken Lay's guilty verdict was tossed out.
 
2013-05-19 10:05:48 PM

jshine: TFA:"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

The rapist is dead.  How much more "over" could it possibly be?


Considering the amount of buttdiscomfort expressed over the location of burying a dead terror suspect, over is relative to dollar amount and medias humoring whomever is in camera at a given moment.
 
2013-05-19 10:10:58 PM
FU website that forces me to choose between either accepting or rejecting to download your stupid shiat app, before I can read your article
 
2013-05-19 10:11:20 PM
Hello??  It's called a detergent.  Let this be a lesson to other dead cops.
 
2013-05-19 10:12:58 PM
I say pass the body around to necrophiliac prisoners for a week and call it good....
 
2013-05-19 10:17:08 PM

firefly212: included in due process is the right/ability to participate in your own defense...


Waived when he voluntarily left after the start of the trial.

Roman Polanski was sentenced after he fled the country.
 
2013-05-19 10:26:13 PM

trappedspirit: Hello??  It's called a detergent.  Let this be a lesson to other dead cops.


I think you mean it's called a detective.
 
2013-05-19 10:41:18 PM
www.snurcher.com

"The sentencing will not be lengthy."
 
2013-05-19 10:50:58 PM

lasercannon: jshine: lasercannon: I hope that the sentence wil be that the victim can do whatever she wants with the rapist's body like cutting off his head and sticking it on a pike, cutting off his balls and penis then sticking them in his mouth, toss him into a sewage reclamation facility or use his skull as an ashtray.

It sounds like someone has attended one too many Renaissance Faires.

/ the middle ages ended a while back

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways. Now if you excuse me I need to go accuse my neighbor of witchcraft and burn her at the stake.


That's for heresie, ye damned foreigner! Ye English folk hold yt witcherie is a civil crime and thus is punished by hanging! And a good quarter-cord of firewood is too costlie a thinge now in ye cold winteres of late to be let waste upon every strumpet yt ye thinks maie be castinge grimourie upon hir neighboures' kine. Ye canne make sondrie uses of a length of good hempe.
 
2013-05-19 10:55:15 PM
www.nndb.com

I died guilty. But, I was innocent when they buried that other guy's body.
Ask me how.
 
2013-05-19 10:58:29 PM

Green Scorpio: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead,"

Why do people insist on going ahead and inserting things like this into a sentence?


FTFY
 
2013-05-19 11:04:25 PM
We should sentence him to pre-sentencing suicide.
 
2013-05-19 11:13:59 PM
What if he is reincarnated? He wouldn't serve any prison time! None of you smart guys thought of that, did you?

/shamelessly stolen from Richard Pryor.
 
2013-05-19 11:23:03 PM

NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?


The defense attorney mentioned the possibility of restitution. I don't know if that's usual in rape cases in his jurisdiction, but supposing it is, it's possible the restitution could be paid out of his estate. That's one difference sentencing a dead person could in theory make. Though absent that, it does seem pointless.
 
2013-05-19 11:30:49 PM
"Defense lawyers argue with Court over sentencing rapist cop who committed suicide in jail: "I can't comprehend how you can go ahead and sentence someone who is dead""

Sure can't give him life.
 
2013-05-19 11:39:53 PM
You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground." Why that will finish it for you where hearing this shiatbag took the coward's way out and hung himself in his cell, I can't imagine. My guess is, it won't.

If I had been raped by some dirtbag cop, and he hung himself instead of facing justice, I'd be dancing on his shiat-strewn grave, and screw sentencing him. But someone sold this poor girl on the idea of "closure" and now she can't get past that. Which is sad.
 
2013-05-19 11:47:35 PM
Another hero of the blue shirt.

Thankfully, he's now a good cop.
 
2013-05-20 12:03:46 AM

TV's Vinnie: So, does this mean that Lee Harvey Oswald DIDN'T shoot Kennedy, since LHO was never convicted let alone sentenced?


Well the "allegedly" thing is usually reserved for still living suspects.
 
2013-05-20 12:33:00 AM

bugontherug: NutWrench: Sentencing happens after conviction, right? What's the point of deciding what kind of punishment is appropriate for a dead person?

The defense attorney mentioned the possibility of restitution. I don't know if that's usual in rape cases in his jurisdiction, but supposing it is, it's possible the restitution could be paid out of his estate. That's one difference sentencing a dead person could in theory make. Though absent that, it does seem pointless.


Specifically:
After the hearing, Blatt said the court has lost the jurisdiction to sentence Orban because he is dead.

"There is no one to sentence, there is no one to order restitution to," he said.



He's incorrect, though, because he screwed up the preposition - the victim is the one to order restitution  to, the decedent is the one you order restitution  from. And in this case, the decedent's estate is who you order restitution from.
 
2013-05-20 12:33:08 AM

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "

I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground." Why that will finish it for you where hearing this shiatbag took the coward's way out and hung himself in his cell, I can't imagine. My guess is, it won't.

If I had been raped by some dirtbag cop, and he hung himself instead of facing justice, I'd be dancing on his shiat-strewn grave, and screw sentencing him. But someone sold this poor girl on the idea of "closure" and now she can't get past that. Which is sad.


...aaand, I think we're done here. (*bangs gavel*)

I was just going to make a snide remark about the obscene preoccupation with empty abstractions in the American legal system. But, yeah: that doesn't much hold a candle to the Cult of Closure that's infested our thinking about criminal justice over the last 20 years.

Somehow, we rather suddenly got this very strange notion that the system is/could/should be about "restoring" victims of crime--when nothing about how that system evolved over the last 700-or-so years suggests that makes a lick of sense.
 
2013-05-20 12:34:43 AM

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over. YOU are the one who needs to hear the judge say "The defendant is sentenced to the statutory maximum of 25 years to life, which makes no difference in this case because he's already in the ground."


"The defendant is also sentenced to pay $100k in restitution and compensatory damages for the victim's medical bills, psychological counseling, and pain and suffering. Since he's in the ground, his estate and pension are attached."
 
2013-05-20 12:37:55 AM

Gyrfalcon: You can't only blame this one on the judge and a crazy legal system.

But the victim of the crime, who was at Friday's hearing, said Orban's sentencing means a lot to her.
"I'm a little disappointed that it got postponed again," she said after the hearing. "I really just want it to be over. "
 
I am not about to excoriate someone who had something this bad happen to her. But honey, it IS over. YOU are the one who cannot let the man's DEATH make it be over.


The victim isn't a party to this nonsense, just a spectator.  The  defenseattorney is crazy.  He refused to  request that the case be dismissed, the usual & sensible way to dispose of such things.  He wants to leave it in limbo, unfinished and off the calendar. You just can't do that.
 
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