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(Detroit Free Press)   Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings   (freep.com) divider line 68
    More: Hero, President Obama, African-Americans, Morehouse College, historically black colleges, Emancipation Proclamation, global workforce, March on Washington, black man  
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5005 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2013 at 7:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-19 04:40:00 PM  
9 votes:
I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.
2013-05-19 05:55:49 PM  
8 votes:

gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.


My husband and I have spent years taking in foster children, the large majority of them were African-Americans. I cannot tell you how many times they told me they couldn't maintain their credibility among their peers if they "acted white." In every case, "acting white" was interpreted as wearing clothes that fit, passing their classes in school, and expecting them home for dinner and family time. It was so depressing and so continuous that when I moved to Las Vegas, I didn't sign up for the foster care program, despite my fifteen years experience and the great need in Las Vegas for stable foster parents.

On the other hand, several of my former "foster" kids have gone on to graduate college and/or enter the workforce, and start families. They all still call me mom and their kids consider me their grandmother. I count these kids among my successes, but I'm still frustrated by some kids who I wasn't able to raise as productive citizens. Two boys are in jail, and a few others have continued with drug and gang problems. In every case, the boys who are non successful have blamed everyone but themselves.

I guess the TL;DR point is that Obama (and Cosby before him) are absolutely correct. They are perpetuating a cycle amongst themselves and only they can end it.
2013-05-19 06:43:52 PM  
7 votes:

bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?


The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.
2013-05-19 08:13:21 PM  
6 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


The interesting thing is that black leaders knew how to solve a lot of it, even back in the reconstruction days.  Read the autobiographies of Fredrick Douglass and Booker T. Washington- they understood perfectly

1) Get an education.  Knowledge is power, and if you aren't educated you'll never have power
2) Work your ass off.  It doesn't need to be glamorous work, but do it.

That's all you can really do as an individual.  You need other kinds of actions to remove barriers like Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but those are tamped down (albeit not gone by any stretch) today.   My kids are multi-racial and if I ever hear them disparaging education as "acting white" they'll never hear the end of it.  Folks like Douglass risked whippings or worse for learning to read- nothing today comes close to that sort of barrier to education.
2013-05-19 08:21:08 PM  
5 votes:
Yeah, blacks should just "get over it".

If they try hard and work at it there is a place at the table for them.

Course when you hear television and radio telling you that even the President of the United States isn't really qualified and is an affirmative action recipient do you think a black kid looking up to him thinks I should try harder? Or does that kid say "Screw it. Even if I work hard and get to Harvard they still won't accept me"

How much does that kid have to endure before he is "allowed" by white society to become frustrated and why do whites feel the need to dismiss the reasons for said frustration before we finally say "that shiats not right and we need to fix it"?
2013-05-19 07:56:52 PM  
5 votes:

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.
2013-05-19 07:45:05 PM  
5 votes:

PreMortem: So where is GOP outrage? I'm sure there will be some.


Tomorrow morning, when Rush Limbaugh tells them what their opinions are supposed to be for the day.
2013-05-19 09:47:32 PM  
4 votes:
There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.
2013-05-19 08:21:18 PM  
4 votes:

Summercat: So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...


That stuff's complicated.  It's easier to say "it's your own damn fault" and go back to the nice job you got with your college education provided by the college-educated parents who raised you in a safe suburban neighborhood and didn't do drugs and signed you up for kindergarten and little league and took you to the doctor.  After all, if you can make it, why can't some kid from a broken home in a violent slum raised by an abusive drug addict who spends more time in jail than at home?

In America, we all have equal opportunity!
2013-05-19 08:05:25 PM  
4 votes:

smitty04: Summercat: discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Anyone trying to improve their lot in life has been called uppity by others that don;t try, especially in the South. "Acting white" should not be a label placed on successful black people by other black people.


You're right.  The urban culture that disdains education and legitimate work and playing things straight...that's a horrible thing that can only be undone by having leaders of that community meet it head on with a reprimand and a demand for them to take responsibility for their lives.

Just like the President did with that speech.
2013-05-19 07:18:56 PM  
4 votes:

bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?


When they foolishly gave up that free food and shelter in the 1860s.
2013-05-20 04:05:07 AM  
3 votes:
The greatest trick the media ever played on America was confusing class issues with race issues.

And so it goes.
2013-05-19 11:59:29 PM  
3 votes:

adamatari: You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.


No, you can't, and you shouldn't. Does it matter what color their skin is, or whether their parents don't have a clue because their parents were the grandchildren of slaves or the grandchildren of peckerwoods? Because granddaddy was a black sharecropper in Alabamy or a white coal miner in West Virginia?

The difference is, there is no National Association for the Advancement of White Trash; there is no United Honky College Fund. If a black kid fails because of institutionalized racism, which there is plenty of and it's despicable and inexcusable, he or she has a fallback that "you can't blame a kid because of racism". If a white kid fails because of institutionalized classism, of which there is plenty too, equally despicable and inexcusable, he or she does not get a pass because of us coasties being prejudiced against hillbillies. But we are, oh, yes, we are.

The point being that NOBODY should get to PERSONALLY blame his or her failings on racism or classism or whatever. If a black kid winds up in prison, it may be that in general, cops arrest more blacks than whites, but THAT KID does not get to say "It's not my fault I broke into that house/robbed that 7-11/beat up that girl/shot that guy, it's because I'm black." If a black kid fails his algebra class because he didn't turn in his homework or study, he cannot say "It's not my fault, the teacher just hates black kids." Now, if cops are arresting more blacks, if the school is overall failing more blacks, that's on us as a society, but any individual kid should never be allowed to use it as their personal justification. Any more than that poor white miner's kid gets to.

Raise kids to own their own faults, we might have fewer black kids in the Crips and fewer white kids in the Aryan Nations, perhaps; instead of blaming their failings on teh n*ggers and Whitey.
2013-05-19 09:34:12 PM  
3 votes:

dustbunnyboo: Infernalist: Gulper Eel: Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.

He's good at that. The actions the president has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.

Just out of curiosity, what actions do you think he should take to reinforce his speech?

End welfare.

Seriously.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, but I have personally seen welfare wreck the lives and aspirations of people. If it isn't welfare, it's being on disability, which has exploded since welfare reform.

And thankfully, anecdotes aren't really needed, since welfare reform acknowledged these very things - that generational welfare was deeply harmful. It strips generations of people of all sense of responsibility and robs them of their desire to achieve.

There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve, but as long as generational welfare exists (and it does, one way or the other, despite Clinton-era reforms), we will have deeply entrenched poverty, crime, and hopelessness. Maybe we need to go to a work-fare model, or a new CCC or something like that. Not sure.

Entangling people in the welfare system and making them permanently dependent on the government is just terrible. Terrible for the individual, for the family, for society, and for the economy.

Unfit for Work The startling rise of disability in America (NPR)


If you end welfare, people starve.

Did you consider the ramifications of telling a goodly sized percentage of the population that they're not going to get food stamps anymore?

What do you think happens when those families suddenly stare down the barrel of starvation?  Do you think they're going to magically somehow do something different and, lo, find employment that wasn't there the first 50 times that they looked?

Have you considered what desperate parents will do to feed their children?  What they will do to complete strangers to feed their children?

Do you know the term 'food riot'?  I'll give you a hint, it doesn't involve throwing food at each in a cafeteria.

End Welfare.  Jesus Christ, I hope and pray you're just trolling, because no one has the right to be that...naive.
2013-05-19 08:12:27 PM  
3 votes:

cc_rider: Saw this live, as it happened. It was a damn good speech that would be lauded by conservatives if one of their own had given it.


That's all anyone needs to know about this speech and, really, anything that has happened over the past five years.
2013-05-19 07:38:28 PM  
3 votes:

gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.


That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.
2013-05-19 04:11:34 PM  
3 votes:
Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.
2013-05-20 04:09:27 AM  
2 votes:

Gyrfalcon: TopoGigo: robohobo: TopoGigo:

<snip>

Nobody cares about white trash because they're white and we all know that white people are never discriminated against. If they're poor, it's because they're stupid or rednecks or meth-heads or inbred; and they're all mean racist KKKers, every last one, and for no other reason than they're just too stupid to learn otherwise. Certainly not because wealthy educated whites discriminate against them. Certainly NOT.

/My great-granddaddy was a ridgerunner in 1863.
//Now the Virginia Blairs don't talk to us any more.


***DISCLAIMER***
I don't want to sound like an idiot college-aged "anarchist" anti-corporate punk rocker here. Please forgive me as I descend into madness for a second.

The moneyed elites in this country love, I mean LOVE, when we think like this. Black people are discriminated against. Mexicans are discriminated against. Hillbillies are discriminated against. Every oppressed minority does their damnedest to oppress the others. Meanwhile, we're all so distracted by our tribalism and xenophobia that we fail to notice...if your family has been poor for more than two generations, you have almost no chance to succeed in life. The people in power run a rigged game, and all of our pockets are mysteriously getting lighter while our backs are turned. Treat politics just like you treat a carnie barker. If you gawk like a rube, the roustabouts will pick your pockets.

/Paranoid socialist mode OFF
2013-05-19 10:59:03 PM  
2 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com

It's kind of like telling the Titanic to stop making excuses and float.
2013-05-19 09:54:12 PM  
2 votes:

Aye Carumba: Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans.


German Americans.  Irish Americans.  Italian Americans.  Latino Americans...
2013-05-19 09:53:19 PM  
2 votes:

Aye Carumba: There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.


You're clearly not from a city that has an Irish-/Puerto Rican-/Cuban-/Polish-/etc.-American Heritage Parade every week during the summer.
2013-05-19 09:21:22 PM  
2 votes:
I'd have liked to see George W Bush say something like this at a college commencement:  "There's no longer any room for excuses for white men.  It's true that the bitter legacies of the defeat of the Confederacy and of affirmative action still exist, but we're living in a competitive world, and nobody's going to give you anything you didn't earn.  Don't wallow in self pity and blame others when something goes wrong, set an example for others by being a better husband and father."
2013-05-19 08:49:59 PM  
2 votes:

I_C_Weener: No time like the present to start. Just like my doc said about quitting smoking.


5 days tobacco free (that includes camel Snus).

Use nicorette, you can get a 75% off coupon online (price dropped from $50 to $12 for 100 pieces) they're a royal pain in the ass to open so you're gonna spend time getting those f*ckers out of their mass assembly lined sheets. (perforated sheets of 2x5, after you break one off you peel the paper back, that leaves foil which you need a knife to open)
2013-05-19 08:47:33 PM  
2 votes:

adamatari: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.


This is what creates white trash, too. I saw it a lot in high school--for the type of kids who went there, the norm was for the son to get in physical fights with their fathers when they hit their late teens, and for the daughter to be a slut. Both genders just believed they could go out and 'work really hard' and get a job without even a high school diploma. That sort of thing is culture, and culture is  hellishly difficult to work around.
2013-05-19 08:45:27 PM  
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


This is pretty much spot on.

Though throw in all that; with a little dibble of social engineering, and a dabble of social welfare programs...and voila!  Also add the fact that the benefits of a positive male influence have been HEAVILY de-emphasized in Black culture; it's all just adds up to a complete mess.

The fact that I'm Black, 28, with a stable full-time job (that pays excellent benefits), a college education, a pilot's license, and no kids...Something like that really shouldn't be seen as an the exception to the rule.

/I'm a hit with the recently divorced women, however...
//I avoid recently divorced women like the goddamned black plague
2013-05-19 08:22:59 PM  
2 votes:
This young thread has already proven if there was one thing wrong with Obama's speech it was that he didn't anticipate how his own words would be used as an excuse to pile on black people under the guise of "agreement."
2013-05-19 07:55:59 PM  
2 votes:

Princess Ryans Knickers: No, because it has jack all to do with today.


This isn't the year 2250. There are still many people living who were victims of legally enforced segregation and many more who were and continue to be the victims of economic segregation. Though I'm white, I did attend a 99% black elementary school in Alabama right after the end of legal segregation. It wasn't legal to segregation by rule but they could by creative zoning. When we moved to another town in the same school district that was mostly white, the difference between school quality was night and day. The kids who didn't get to move to the better school (and remember, these were all in the same county where there was only one school district) suffered a far inferior education. Since it was one district, you can't say it was a case of a black city refusing to invest in education. It was a majority white county keeping most of the blacks zoned to schools that received less funding and had much older physical plants. Even if everything was magically made equal ten years ago, you'd still have a couple of generations who were intentionally given inferior educational resources, and the consequences of having them as parents unable to pass along knowledge and resources that the kids in other areas receive from their parents.

The cycle continues. Overall it's not as strong as it once was but only because many have worked hard to inch things toward equality of opportunity. No doubt that black students of today have a better chance of making it up the social economic ladder than they use to but let's not play make believe and pretend that the odds are the same. They're still far from it.
2013-05-19 07:43:34 PM  
2 votes:

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


Right!  All obstacles completely disappeared after the slaves were freed!!

/this is what republitards actually believe.
2013-05-19 07:41:34 PM  
2 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.


He's good at that. The actions the president has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.
2013-05-19 05:04:45 PM  
2 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

Cosby got a smackdown for it.


...and the 'Cos didn't miss a beat.  His message has always remained the same regardless of a few distractors.
2013-05-19 03:53:55 PM  
2 votes:
This thread will be fun if it takes off.
2013-05-20 08:17:27 AM  
1 votes:
Good: Saying "good speech, Obama. I agree."

Bad: Using this to justify your own racism openly in a public forum.
2013-05-20 04:02:15 AM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/04/29/finally-proof-that-mon e y-buys-happiness-sort-of

First, it is important to point out they did not plot income dollar-for-dollar against happiness measures in the above graphs. Rather, they used a logarithmic scale, with income doubling at each interval. In other words, with that horizontal axis stretched out, the graphs would show happiness increasing more quickly for poorer countries and poorer people than for those on the richer end of the spectrum.

Or, put even more simply, an extra dollar improves well-being for someone in poverty far more than it will help a Fortune 500 CEO. That supports the political argument for promoting income redistribution - more money appears to do more good for people who are poor.

Money is just a medium of exchange, and wealth is just the accumulation of that over and above that one needs.

And it's obvious that it does not need to be tied to labor, since those with the most wealth tend to labor the least.

...

Guaranteed basic income as a solution?


Some day we'll wake up and find that we only have useful jobs for a small percentage of people. We're not even that far away; mechanization and efficiency keep reducing the need for human labor. What in the holy living fark are we going to do then? Are we going to let people starve? Are we going to create a perpetual underclass of servants who all live in the downstairs part of the homes of the wealthy, like Victorian England? Will we structure the world so that everyone retires at 30? Or will we guarantee a minimum income for everyone? We really need to start thinking about this soon. If you count disability, long term unemployment, and short term unemployment, you're at something like 20% right now. How long until that number approaches 50%? 75%? 90%?
2013-05-20 03:08:24 AM  
1 votes:

ekdikeo4: sendtodave: Infernalist: But, have we managed to bridge the difference and say honestly that the average black man has the same chances of success as the average white man?  Hells to the no.

If you compare the average black person to the average white person, there is a large gap.

If you compare the average poor black person to the average poor white person, there is a smaller gap.

Poor white trash don't have high chances of success, either.  Or poor anyone, really.

My experience is that poor people as a whole are only interested in not being poor if they can continue to not do anything useful while getting out of being poor.


Your experience sucks. Or perhaps it's your empathy, I suppose. I struggle with that, too. I see poor white trash living in the HUD apartment complexes for very close to free, and pissing their meager dollars away on spoilers and fart mufflers. They all seem to be able to afford personalised plates on their less than 10 year old cars. They all seem to order pizza or get McDonalds daily. Their numerous and filthy children, who haven't seen their Diddy since he done gone to jail or rundoft with that whore, are running around supervised only by their need to stay close the the Mountain Dew dispensing refrigerator. They are constantly going into hock with Rent-a-Center for flat screen TV's, and payday loan stores for cash for baby formula, because they can't be arsed to make it to the WIC appointments to get more coupons for free damned food. They spend all day doing f*ck all, except for those in the drug business, who keep getting all those free bennies while taking in black market cash. Goddamn, is it frustrating. How the f*ck can these people live what seems to be a carefree life, when I have to struggle to make more than $8/hr? The only way I "escaped" poverty was by a) marrying a teacher, who makes less than $40k, b) the good fortune to run across a foreclosure home cheap at just the right time, c) the good fortune to have family in the construction trades who could help me renovate said home, and d) the good fortune to be born with a natural talent for math, logic, and spreadsheet manipulation so I didn't piss my money away (I damned sure wasn't taught any of that shiat at my worthless-ass schools).

But I know the truth. The truth isn't that they're mooching off the system. It's that they looked at the world, realized there was no place for them, and said "f*ck it". A life time of disadvantages, and usually one or two poor decisions, have doomed them to a cycle of poverty for the rest of their lives. Why the hell should they bust their collective humps for no real reward?

Let's get serious for a moment. You want to fix generational poverty? You want to end the dependence on social services? GODDAMN PRO-RATE THEM. It should never, under any circumstances, cost you money to go to work. But it does. If you work a 30 hr/wk job at $8/hr, you lose most, if not all, government benefits. Now try to live on $1100 a month. Also, you've lost your medical card, so if you or anyone else in the family gets sick, you're farked. If your car breaks down, you're farked. Can't ride the bus. No busses around here. So, why the hell try?
2013-05-20 12:07:21 AM  
1 votes:

Vectron: Did he mention that pesky Achievement Gap?

That's kind of the elephant in the living room isn't it?

Head Start has been shown to be a failure and incredible waste of money (don't hold your breath for it to end mr and mrs. taxpayer) . Self esteem work, Ebonics. We've tried so many ideas. Coming up with new solutions for the Achievement Gap has become a large industry. Each new idea is heralded as the solution. Each new idea fails. :-(


Ah... one of those. I get that this guy's probably just trolling for the lulz, but there are people who try this shtick in real life. Once you call them on their racist bullshiat, they'll say stuff like "Whoah, hey, I never said anything about black people being inherently inferior... sounds like you're the real racist!" They actually seem to think, for some reason, that this will work.

What people like this don't realize is that not only do normal people see right through their bullshiat, they actually have even less respect for them than they would for actual overt racists, because those guys are at least up-front about it.
2013-05-20 12:02:47 AM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: The difference is, there is no National Association for the Advancement of White Trash; there is no United Honky College Fund. If a black kid fails because of institutionalized racism, which there is plenty of and it's despicable and inexcusable, he or she has a fallback that "you can't blame a kid because of racism". If a white kid fails because of institutionalized classism, of which there is plenty too, equally despicable and inexcusable, he or she does not get a pass because of us coasties being prejudiced against hillbillies. But we are, oh, yes, we are.


+1 Smart
2013-05-19 11:19:34 PM  
1 votes:

Vectron: Did he stress how important it is to be raised by white people and only white people?

And don't forget to later crap on your grandmother for being afraid of black men despite having "sacrificed again and again for me". That's class.

Who isn't afraid of black men? The most progressive libbylib Farkers, avoid their neighborhoods.



Gonna go out on a limb here...you're not a big fan of black people are you?
2013-05-19 11:10:49 PM  
1 votes:
I am a brown person, raised by an illiterate single mother in shiat neighborhood.  Now I'm in my thirties, a comfortable upper-middle-class software engineer.  What saved me was being a socially inept autist.  I didn't care when they called me "wanna-be white", because if they weren't calling me that, they were calling me some other slur, making fun of my sneakers, or my clothes aren't name-brand.  Fitting-in was never on the table for me.  I was lonely but I didn't give a fark otherwise.
2013-05-19 11:04:39 PM  
1 votes:

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


It's appropriate that your Fark handle refers to a toilet.
2013-05-19 10:51:05 PM  
1 votes:

alpha charlie bravo: I don't know how upwardly mobile the audience is. I imagine some of the students at Morehouse come from privileged backgrounds, but I'm sure some don't.


Fair enough.  I was speaking more to the "hundreds of years of discrimination" idea.  At some point along the line they went from second class citizens to (affluent?) college-attending people.

Maybe not this generation was upwardly mobile, but someone was.  And it was probably harder for whoever did it than white guys, yeah.  Most white guys don't start out poor.

/there I go, bringing class into it again
//but that's what it's all about!
2013-05-19 10:41:57 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: But, have we managed to bridge the difference and say honestly that the average black man has the same chances of success as the average white man?  Hells to the no.


If you compare the average black person to the average white person, there is a large gap.

If you compare the average poor black person to the average poor white person, there is a smaller gap.

Poor white trash don't have high chances of success, either.  Or poor anyone, really.
2013-05-19 10:37:56 PM  
1 votes:

The Dog Ate My Homework: gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Because black people are lazy? Wait, wait, we can't say that anymore. It's because the government has made them dependent, right?


Well, let's examine the history, shall we?

At no point in their existence here in the Americas has the black population ever been in a good position.  They have, from their very beginnings, been exploited, discriminated against, terrorized, marginalized, segregated and oppressed.

Even when they got freedom from the federal government, that same federal government abandoned them to the local authorities that had, until the Civil War, held them as troublemakers at best and chattel property at worst.  Wide spread oppression for the next 100 years became the norm.

At no point in their history have they EVER had equal footing with the white majority in this country.

Are things better now than they were in 1950?  Oh yes.

But, have we managed to bridge the difference and say honestly that the average black man has the same chances of success as the average white man?  Hells to the no.

And until we can say that honestly, then we have to acknowledge that perpetual cycle of poverty and the wide spread negatives that go along with that cycle.
2013-05-19 10:34:54 PM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: I always get a kick out of "the value of hard work."   The hardest working people are the poorest.  It's pretty much always been that way.


Exactly right. The class which makes the most money these days - pretty much all days - is the rentier class which, pretty much by definition, do not do work.
2013-05-19 09:35:27 PM  
1 votes:

WaffleStomper: Economy.  NOT MY FAULT!
Libya.  NOT MY FAULT!
IRS.  NOT MY FAULT!
AP phone records. NOT MY FAULT!

BLACK MEN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

*rolls eyes*


I love when trolls show themselves like a toddler crying for attention, each post a larger scream than the last.
2013-05-19 09:05:00 PM  
1 votes:
'Stop making excuses and start making progress' is a good thing to tell any group.

Hey, here's a thought. Someone should send a guy with a bullhorn over to Congress with that message.

Wonder if Mo Rocca is busy.
2013-05-19 09:03:43 PM  
1 votes:

Truther: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


Don't forget the governments role in perpetuating the cycle by allowing generations of African Americans to wallow in self pity and government handouts.


Yeah, shoulda just let them all starve.  That'd teach em to lift their people up out of poverty by sheer force of their will and desire to eat.
2013-05-19 08:51:08 PM  
1 votes:

PsiChick: adamatari: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.

This is what creates white trash, too. I saw it a lot in high school--for the type of kids who went there, the norm was for the son to get in physical fights with their fathers when they hit their late teens, and for the daughter to be a slut. Both genders just believed they could go out and 'w ...


Especially when that culture preaches it, day in and day out.  "Work hard and you can be anything you want!"

Bullshiat you will.  Success is equal parts education and pure farking luck these days.

Even people with good degrees find it hard to find success these days.  So, the old cultural fairy tale of 'work hard and succeed' needs to die.  It takes a lot more learning than working hard and we have to start emphasizing that in our culture.

Stop fixating on pretty people in Hollywood and retards in the music industry.  Focus on the people that invent things.
2013-05-19 08:47:46 PM  
1 votes:

grahamsletter: Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.


Wait. Waitwaitwait.

The President of the United States/Seekrit Mooslem Fartbongoing Usurper only looks black.

But he's not culturally black.

In other words, he's ... acting white?

/kills self
2013-05-19 08:44:35 PM  
1 votes:

sendtodave: grahamsletter: Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people.

Why is he playing to conservative white people?  They don't listen to him anyway.


Oh please. Grahamsletter'spremise was flawed from the beginning. Obama wasn't "scolding" the graduates. His speech was like every other commencement speech in history: a pep talk. And if you've graduated college within the past 6 years or so, you'll probably need a morale boost entering this brutal job market. He just added a few words to fit this particular audience. Now if you graduated from Morehouse you probably have your head together enough to accept responsibility, but if Obama's message could be passed along to someone who needs it, then something good came from it.

If Conservatives want to believe he was giving black men what for they can. It wouldn't be the first time they were wrong about something. But you don't have to help them out by admonishing a perfectly well-meaning message.
2013-05-19 08:40:53 PM  
1 votes:
Institutional grieving and generational trauma are sad things. However, like it or not, the only cure is for those affected to stand up and say that they aren't going to make the same mistakes their parents did. It's not easy and no one outside the group can help, but just because change, moving on, and growing is hard doesn't mean it's impossible. It is a conscious choice.

Is there still racism? Yes, but all of the policies in all of the workplaces and communities in all the world aren't enough to make the cultural grief and culturally sanctioned anger and destruction go away. This is something that must be undertaken at an individual level.

Or you could sit and whine and be angry at cultural conditions that you perpetuate.
2013-05-19 08:32:29 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: Because admitting that minorities still face steep obstacles to even moderate success means that they have to stop, look at their own success and wonder how much of it was 'really' difficult, and how much of it was made easier simply because they had the good luck to be born white.


You don't need to be born white to "easily" succeed.

You need to walk, talk, and have the same goals as a white guy, though.  I think it's foreign cultures that white people are scared of any more (and this includes "black" culture).

/I can even back that assertion up with anecdotes
2013-05-19 08:23:42 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, not this crap again. Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people. It's all a huge sham, anyway. Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.

Does Obama actually think he's doing any good, or is this just what he believes (that Black people need to stop whining and start working, which hey, guess what, they already are), or is this his way to get some more political capital to distract people from his non-performance in things that actually matter?
2013-05-19 08:21:41 PM  
1 votes:

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


So, you think he was waiting until after the election to say something about them not needing excuses anymore?

That if he'd said it BEFORE the election, they would have..what?  Voted for Romney?  lol
2013-05-19 08:18:10 PM  
1 votes:

Glockenspiel Hero: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

The interesting thing is that black leaders knew how to solve a lot of it, even back in the reconstruction days.  Read the autobiographies of Fredrick Douglass and Booker T. Washington- they understood perfectly

1) Get an education.  Knowledge is power, and if you aren't educated you'll never have power
2) Work your ass off.  It doesn't need to be glamorous work, but do it.

That's all you can really do as an individual.  You need other kinds of actions to remove barriers like Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but those are tamped down (albeit not gone by any stretch) today.   My kids are multi-racial and if I ever hear them dis ...


Learning to read? No.

But the current urban culture treats the professional world like it's a bad thing.  It's hard to appeal to youngsters when their culture heroes are telling them to party, get drunk, sleep around, smoke weed and get rich by being rappers and/or sports stars instead of working hard and going to college.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGudnwTN_to
2013-05-19 08:14:02 PM  
1 votes:
Black people have nobody but themselves to blame for where their culture is at today.

/doesn't stop them from trying, though.
2013-05-19 08:12:03 PM  
1 votes:
"It's just that in today's hyperconnected, hypercompetitive world, with a billion young people from China and India and Brazil entering the global workforce alongside you, nobody is going to give you anything you haven't earned."

oh thank goodness we're ending affirmative action... hold on... oh jheesh, a phone call from the IRS. i'm being audited. i can't believe they called on a Sunday!
2013-05-19 08:10:34 PM  
1 votes:
Saw this live, as it happened. It was a damn good speech that would be lauded by conservatives if one of their own had given it.

Haters gonna hate and trolls gonna troll.
2013-05-19 08:08:54 PM  
1 votes:

Infernalist: I HATE LIBS: "There's no longer any room for excuses...now watch me pass this comprehensive immigration bill that will increase the competition for the jobs you still can't get"

No Thanks Obama.

Can't hack the competition?  You can always apply for welfare.


I think it's rude for Obama to make comments like that.  He isn't the descendants of American slaves.  His ancestors weren't brought here on a slave ship.
2013-05-19 08:03:02 PM  
1 votes:

Summercat: discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...


Anyone trying to improve their lot in life has been called uppity by others that don;t try, especially in the South. "Acting white" should not be a label placed on successful black people by other black people.
2013-05-19 08:00:44 PM  
1 votes:
"There's no longer any room for excuses...now watch me pass this comprehensive immigration bill that will increase the competition for the jobs you still can't get"

No Thanks Obama.
2013-05-19 07:53:56 PM  
1 votes:

Summercat: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Means absolutely nothing. Culture and historical background means nothing, there is no such thing as context, and Mitt Romney wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth on third base.

Got it.

/You sir, are a fsking moron.


Some people refuse to acknowledge the institutionalized racism that even still exists, albeit quieter and less obvious than it was in 1960.
2013-05-19 07:53:42 PM  
1 votes:
Michelle said much the same in her own address the other day.  The Obamas have been quite public about holding their own to a high standard.
2013-05-19 07:51:04 PM  
1 votes:

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...

Means absolutely nothing. Culture and historical background means nothing, there is no such thing as context, and Mitt Romney wasn't born with a golden spoon in his mouth on third base.

Got it.

/You sir, are a fsking moron.
2013-05-19 07:47:12 PM  
1 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Dancin_In_Anson: http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williamns050813.php3

...so vote white Republican.  Nice.


Has DIA every made a non-thread-shiatting entry into a thread?
2013-05-19 07:29:26 PM  
1 votes:
Surely to have failings, you have had to have tried?

I KID I KID.  Just a joke people.
2013-05-19 07:25:29 PM  
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williamns050813.php3


...so vote white Republican.  Nice.
2013-05-19 07:15:18 PM  
1 votes:
So where is GOP outrage? I'm sure there will be some.
2013-05-19 04:51:02 PM  
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.


Cosby got a smackdown for it.
 
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