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(Detroit Free Press)   Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings   (freep.com) divider line 297
    More: Hero, President Obama, African-Americans, Morehouse College, historically black colleges, Emancipation Proclamation, global workforce, March on Washington, black man  
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4998 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2013 at 7:34 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-20 05:07:14 AM

Gulper Eel: Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.

He's good at that. The actions the president has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.


This, 100 times.
 
2013-05-20 05:23:06 AM

TopoGigo: If I measured the STD rates of homosexual males without controlling for the percentage of them who are married or are forced by society to seek out sexual partners in bus station restrooms, I'd be getting bad information.


I suppose that depends on what you want that information for.  If you're trying to figure out  how many doses of penicillin you need to order for the clinic, you really just need to know the overall rate.  If you want to play sociopolitical games with the data, you'd need more delineation.  The simple fact is that being born poor and having a child under the age of 18 are major risk factors for generational poverty, and it's impossible to completely extricate them.  They're much larger risk factors than race alone, but the black and Hispanic communities have problems with teen pregnancy.  To ignore that doesn't help anything.  If you just exclude that as a factor because the data isn't clean enough for your liking you're building your sandcastle at low tide.
 
2013-05-20 05:29:06 AM

sendtodave: Want to do business as a multinational in the US?  Sell your product and become rich?  Great.  Everyone gets stock.


That's a pretty standard benefits package in the US, to the point of being essentially universal.  Why do you think this is some new idea, exactly?  Never had a job that didn't involve an oil fryer?
 
2013-05-20 05:29:49 AM

Yes please: TopoGigo: If I measured the STD rates of homosexual males without controlling for the percentage of them who are married or are forced by society to seek out sexual partners in bus station restrooms, I'd be getting bad information.

I suppose that depends on what you want that information for.  If you're trying to figure out  how many doses of penicillin you need to order for the clinic, you really just need to know the overall rate.  If you want to play sociopolitical games with the data, you'd need more delineation.  The simple fact is that being born poor and having a child under the age of 18 are major risk factors for generational poverty, and it's impossible to completely extricate them.  They're much larger risk factors than race alone, but the black and Hispanic communities have problems with teen pregnancy.  To ignore that doesn't help anything.  If you just exclude that as a factor because the data isn't clean enough for your liking you're building your sandcastle at low tide.


I'm saying that without controlling for generational income level and education, the information is next to useless. Are black and hispanic women having more children than white women of similar economic backgrounds? Maybe. Maybe not. Without controlling for those factors, you have no idea how much of the gap is due to "culture" and how much is due to class. So, if you plan to actually do something about the problem, you have to have properly controlled datasets. If you just want to make racist and alarmist predictions, the data we have works just fine.
 
2013-05-20 05:32:55 AM
As Yes please noted, not every company is Apple or the Goog.  But, if you use google as the measure, (and I didn't really fark up the math, which is very possible), it's interesting.

20K a year per poor person spent by the government, instead used to buy google stock, and give the poor person $40K instead of 20K...


cost per year20000living "wage"40000per shareshares boughttotal sharesprofit for yearminus "wages"IPO100200200.00-$20,000-$60,0002005200100300.00$60,000$20,00020 0645044.44444444344.44$155,000$115,000200750040384.44$192,222$152,2222 00870028.57142857413.02$289,111$249,111200935057.14285714470.16$164,55 6$124,556201060033.33333333503.49$302,095$262,095201160033.33333333536 .83$322,095$282,095201265030.76923077567.59$368,937$328,937201390022.2 2222222589.82$530,835$490,835Total$1,964,851
The government makes $2 mil, and has $40k per year to give as a "basic wage" left over.
 
2013-05-20 05:33:22 AM

Jim_Callahan: sendtodave: Want to do business as a multinational in the US?  Sell your product and become rich?  Great.  Everyone gets stock.

That's a pretty standard benefits package in the US, to the point of being essentially universal.  Why do you think this is some new idea, exactly?  Never had a job that didn't involve an oil fryer?


Seriously? I think you're delusional if you think that stock options, a matched contribution 401k, or for that matter any semblance of a subsidized retirement package, are so standard as to be essentially universal. I think perhaps you have no idea of the percentage of jobs available that meet your criteria.
 
2013-05-20 05:33:31 AM

Jim_Callahan: sendtodave: Want to do business as a multinational in the US?  Sell your product and become rich?  Great.  Everyone gets stock.

That's a pretty standard benefits package in the US, to the point of being essentially universal.  Why do you think this is some new idea, exactly?  Never had a job that didn't involve an oil fryer?


No, he means  everyone everyone.  I don't think he understands how stock works or where it gets value.  Or what his plan would do to the economy or employment.
 
2013-05-20 05:33:32 AM

sendtodave: As Yes please noted, not every company is Apple or the Goog.  But, if you use google as the measure, (and I didn't really fark up the math, which is very possible), it's interesting.

20K a year per poor person spent by the government, instead used to buy google stock, and give the poor person $40K instead of 20K...


cost per year20000living "wage"40000per shareshares boughttotal sharesprofit for yearminus "wages"IPO100200200.00-$20,000-$60,0002005200100300.00$60,000$20,00020 0645044.44444444344.44$155,000$115,000200750040384.44$192,222$152,2222 00870028.57142857413.02$289,111$249,111200935057.14285714470.16$164,55 6$124,556201060033.33333333503.49$302,095$262,095201160033.33333333536 .83$322,095$282,095201265030.76923077567.59$368,937$328,937201390022.2 2222222589.82$530,835$490,835Total$1,964,851
The government makes $2 mil, and has $40k per year to give as a "basic wage" left over.


Well, that didn't format very well.
 
2013-05-20 05:34:48 AM

Jim_Callahan: sendtodave: Want to do business as a multinational in the US?  Sell your product and become rich?  Great.  Everyone gets stock.

That's a pretty standard benefits package in the US, to the point of being essentially universal.  Why do you think this is some new idea, exactly?  Never had a job that didn't involve an oil fryer?


We're talking about the people that work the oil fryers, smart guy.

Or the ones that aren't even that lucky.

They should get subsidized by the "Job Creators," too, I think.
 
2013-05-20 05:37:21 AM
i10.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-20 05:42:03 AM
Dammitsomuch.  This one.

i10.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-20 05:47:12 AM

Yes please: No, he means  everyone everyone.  I don't think he understands how stock works or where it gets value.  Or what his plan would do to the economy or employment.


Scarcity is a feature, not a bug.   Yeah, I know.

I guess we can go back to "tax the rich" and see if that works.

The economy is already broken for many, if not most, of Americans.
 
2013-05-20 05:52:33 AM

TopoGigo: Are black and hispanic women having more children than white women of similar economic backgrounds? Maybe. Maybe not. Without controlling for those factors, you have no idea how much of the gap is due to "culture" and how much is due to class.


We have some of that data, at least when it comes to teen births or Medicaid and welfare births.  Blacks and Hispanics outpace whites by more than double.  Those at the numbers you should care about.  If Judy the black lawyer has one child or five it doesn't matter much, even if Susan the white accountant always has two.  Those people aren't the ones we're concerned with when we're talking about generational poverty.  When such a large proportion of minorities are on government assistance, and that's also the population most likely to have more children, it does skew the data.  But it skews it so that the problem seems smaller when you're just looking at overall birth rates by race.  Yes, poor people have more children than the rich, but that effect is magnified when you're talking about minorities.  Is that the root or a symptom of a larger problem?  I couldn't tell you, but it's sure as hell not helping.
 
2013-05-20 05:52:47 AM
Eh, I'm and idiot.  that one is wrong, too.

Fark it, time for another beer.
 
2013-05-20 06:00:59 AM

sendtodave: Dammitsomuch.  This one.

[i10.photobucket.com image 628x367]


What the hell are we even looking at here?  Unless you're planning on selling the shares every year you need to be looking at dividends, not stock price.  And if you could just buy a stock and be guaranteed it would double in value every year or two no one would ever be poor.

I'd write this off as a troll if you didn't seem so impassioned and dedicated to it.  But if it is, bonus points for making spreadsheets.
 
2013-05-20 06:14:38 AM

Yes please: sendtodave: Dammitsomuch.  This one.

[i10.photobucket.com image 628x367]

What the hell are we even looking at here?  Unless you're planning on selling the shares every year you need to be looking at dividends, not stock price.  And if you could just buy a stock and be guaranteed it would double in value every year or two no one would ever be poor.

I'd write this off as a troll if you didn't seem so impassioned and dedicated to it.  But if it is, bonus points for making spreadsheets.


Yeah, it's wrong on a whole bunch of levels, not the least of which is the fact that there isn't enough demand for capital. The general idea, though, is that the government could, if it chose to, become the engine of society. The feds could own the land, the factories, and the stores, employ enough people to run them, and use the profits to subsidize everyone else's needs. Is it a good idea? Fark no, but what we have isn't working out so hot, either. As it currently stands, the demand for labor is far, far lower than the supply. If wages don't rise dramatically, allowing people to have free time in which to create and innovate, our economy will grind to a halt as demand falls even lower due to automation and efficiency. We can't run an economy based on selling foreign-made luxuries to people who have to put them on the credit card forever; eventually the house of cards collapses.
 
2013-05-20 06:21:19 AM
This really is a different era, and I do believe there's more opportunity for black people to get into the middle class and higher through education and work. It's important that the first black president would convey the message that these opportunities are now available and it might be time to move on from the racism of the past since this is the least racist this country (or any country) has ever been and the younger generations aren't caught up in the battles of the past.
 
2013-05-20 06:34:38 AM

TopoGigo: Yeah, it's wrong on a whole bunch of levels, not the least of which is the fact that there isn't enough demand for capital. The general idea, though, is that the government could, if it chose to, become the engine of society. The feds could own the land, the factories, and the stores, employ enough people to run them, and use the profits to subsidize everyone else's needs.


Yeah, too fuzzy headed right now.

anyway, I was thinking more of a mix, perhaps state capitalism.  the government doesn't need to outright nationalize the companies (though it could, I guess).  Just needs to make them profit share.

If Steve jobs was paid in stock, why can't the poor be?
 
2013-05-20 06:45:25 AM

sendtodave: TopoGigo: Yeah, it's wrong on a whole bunch of levels, not the least of which is the fact that there isn't enough demand for capital. The general idea, though, is that the government could, if it chose to, become the engine of society. The feds could own the land, the factories, and the stores, employ enough people to run them, and use the profits to subsidize everyone else's needs.

Yeah, too fuzzy headed right now.

anyway, I was thinking more of a mix, perhaps state capitalism.  the government doesn't need to outright nationalize the companies (though it could, I guess).  Just needs to make them profit share.

If Steve jobs was paid in stock, why can't the poor be?


The two biggest reasons would be the lack of demand for capital, and the potential for widespread fraud and abuse. I like the idealism of it, though.
 
2013-05-20 06:50:12 AM
It applies to all whining excuse-makers. Obama makes a valid point, but nobody offers up more whining excuses than billionaires caught with their hands in the cookie jar. I didn't know. Rogue lieutenants. My orders misinterpreted. I was given bad information. I'm sorry that you don't understand the role of job creators. Jimmy Carter.

Wake me up when a president tells the heads of Big Banking to stop making whiny excuses.
 
2013-05-20 06:57:25 AM
Just arrived. That was actually quite inspiring and uplifting. No complaints or criticisms from my corner. Bravo....
 
2013-05-20 06:57:39 AM
does this mean the "Attractive and successful African-American" filter is being removed?
 
2013-05-20 07:05:15 AM

TheJoe03: This really is a different era, and I do believe there's more opportunity for black people to get into the middle class and higher through education and work. It's important that the first black president would convey the message that these opportunities are now available and it might be time to move on from the racism of the past since this is the least racist this country (or any country) has ever been and the younger generations aren't caught up in the battles of the past.


The flip side is that wages have been stagnant for a long time and it's harder to get into the middle class, period. If your education was poor and your work experience has been McDonalds, even more so.

It's a strange time. College tuition has reached ludicrous levels, yet there are all kinds of excellent free online learning resources, if you know about them. But it's almost impossible to get established without a degree, and that takes big money, which means you're already in the (upper) middle class.
 
2013-05-20 07:05:23 AM

stonelotus: does this mean the "Attractive and successful African-American" filter is being removed?


Yes. It means exactly that.
Moron.
 
2013-05-20 07:21:02 AM

Lionel Mandrake: That stuff's complicated. It's easier to say "it's your own damn fault" and go back to the nice job you got with your college education provided by the college-educated parents who raised you in a safe suburban neighborhood and didn't do drugs and signed you up for kindergarten and little league and took you to the doctor. After all, if you can make it, why can't some kid from a broken home in a violent slum raised by an abusive drug addict who spends more time in jail than at home?


It is complicated, but you are going to assume everyone who doesn't agree with you must have gotten all those things you listed?

You don't see how you are oversimplifying it?
 
2013-05-20 07:29:35 AM

BunkyBrewman: ecmoRandomNumbers: TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

Cosby got a smackdown for it.

...and the 'Cos didn't miss a beat.  His message has always remained the same regardless of a few distractors.


Yeah. I'm going to take seriously a guy who made a fortune out of creating the biggest black stereotypes since Song of the South.

s3.amazonaws.com
Wubba yoube tobbin aboubbuh?
 
2013-05-20 07:31:00 AM

Biological Ali: What people like this don't realize is that not only do normal people see right through their bullshiat, they actually have even less respect for them than they would for actual overt racists, because those guys are at least up-front about it


He is yup front about it with other "races".  I think he is just getting warmed up.
 
2013-05-20 07:36:58 AM

TopoGigo: stonelotus: does this mean the "Attractive and successful African-American" filter is being removed?

Yes. It means exactly that.
Moron.


hey man, don't let it hold you back.
 
2013-05-20 07:44:52 AM

Lionel Mandrake: ...or bringing up feral pigs


Got nuthinm' eh?

Color me shocked.
 
2013-05-20 07:55:28 AM

TopoGigo: The feds could own the land, the factories, and the stores, employ enough people to run them, and use the profits to subsidize everyone else's needs. Is it a good idea? Fark no, but what we have isn't working out so hot, either.


At least the current system ensures we won't run out of toilet paper.
 
2013-05-20 08:04:01 AM
Nice try Obama,everything he mentioned was true, but the money making shakedown machines of Sharpton, Jackson and a host of others have been far to effective inculcating the "Black as victim" mentality on both white and black people for over the last 40 years to have any affect on the vast majority of those he was referring to.
There's just too much invested in the status quo to change things now. Sad but true.
 
2013-05-20 08:05:58 AM

TV's Vinnie: Yeah. I'm going to take seriously a guy who made a fortune out of creating the biggest black stereotypes since Song of the South.


Wubba yoube tobbin aboubbuh?


Now ask yourself if either Uncle Remus or Mushmouth is the kind of negative stereotype that makes people cross the street when they see a young black man walking towards them.
 
2013-05-20 08:07:39 AM

Gulper Eel: TopoGigo: The feds could own the land, the factories, and the stores, employ enough people to run them, and use the profits to subsidize everyone else's needs. Is it a good idea? Fark no, but what we have isn't working out so hot, either.

At least the current system ensures we won't run out of toilet paper.


Well, you could aalways use those stock certificates.
 
2013-05-20 08:16:35 AM

phillydrifter: I_C_Weener: No time like the present to start. Just like my doc said about quitting smoking.

5 days tobacco free (that includes camel Snus).

Use nicorette, you can get a 75% off coupon online (price dropped from $50 to $12 for 100 pieces) they're a royal pain in the ass to open so you're gonna spend time getting those f*ckers out of their mass assembly lined sheets. (perforated sheets of 2x5, after you break one off you peel the paper back, that leaves foil which you need a knife to open)


Do you have a link to that coupon? My wife has been considering the gum for a while now. Would be nice to give her an option to quit.
 
2013-05-20 08:17:27 AM
Good: Saying "good speech, Obama. I agree."

Bad: Using this to justify your own racism openly in a public forum.
 
2013-05-20 08:24:31 AM

LasersHurt: Good: Saying "good speech, Obama. I agree."

Bad: Using this to justify your own racism openly in a public forum.


i2.ytimg.com
 
2013-05-20 08:25:21 AM
Shouldn't he have made this speech at a zebra college, he's such a great roll model isn't he
Fast and Furious
Solyndra
0bamacare
IRS targeting
Government over reach
AP snooping
Benghazi
Thanks 0bama voters
 
2013-05-20 08:33:05 AM
This excuses all those years of me being racist and calling black people lazy and dumb.


Right?
 
2013-05-20 09:10:09 AM

Lionel Mandrake: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

Right!  All obstacles completely disappeared after the slaves were freed!!

/this is what republitards actually believe.


Awwww. Look who missed the point.
 
2013-05-20 09:43:12 AM

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


Spoken like a true suburban middle-class princess!

And don't let anyone tell you that things were easier for you growing up, nobody knows how much pain there is in knowing that your clothes are a season out of date and that your braces make you look like "brace-face"! Only True Americans can overcome such obstacles. The poors can learn a lot from yoos!
 
2013-05-20 11:54:25 AM
African-Americans are making great strides at Starfleet,
 
2013-05-20 12:15:59 PM
Read books like Disintegration. Black people are getting out of historical poverty more than ever. We're making progress slowly, which is the only way to make progress after you have been culturally programmed to live in broken families and be first fired/last hired. It's not like we have had a lot of time to generate familial wealth.

The truth is that there is some pretty clear stratification between the black folks that are so distrustful of white folks that they avoid "acting white" and those that don't really do that. I definitely know as the one black kid who talked with a Standard American English dialect in a mostly-black school when I went to one for a couple of years.

I say the same things that President Obama does, but I realize (as I am sure that he realizes) that we were both lucky NOT to be one of those black folks that is still trapped in that cycle. I had two parents that emphasized education and put forth a lot of personal effort to support me, with weekly library trips and helping me study for spelling and geography bees and general encouragement. President Obama had a very supportive extended family that helped his mom raise him. Not everybody is so lucky.

Really, if I think about it, most of my success can be attributed to other people. My parents, grandparents, and some teachers that cared enough to go out of their way to help me are basically the reason that I have made it to where I am. That's 95% of it, and the rest is my work.

I think that these talks from civic leaders are nice, but I also think that it is probably more important to find ways to get to those individuals in the impoverished part of the black community that are not supported by their peers and keep them from giving up their scholastic abilities by giving them the support system that they need. I also don't really try to blame people that have a hard time breaking that cycle because I really don't know if I would have done the same if put into their place.
 
2013-05-20 01:42:58 PM

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


What was Trayvon's "failing" exactly? Wearing a hoodie? Going to the corner store for iced tea and Skittles?
 
2013-05-20 02:02:37 PM

HeartBurnKid: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.

What was Trayvon's "failing" exactly? Wearing a hoodie? Going to the corner store for iced tea and Skittles?


From what I understand from the chain letters, Trayvon was guilty of weighing 200 pounds and giving the finger on a facebook page.
 
2013-05-20 02:35:23 PM
How are we doing on White Opinions? I lost count.
 
2013-05-20 09:49:38 PM
Bill Cosby has been saying basically the same thing for 25 years.  The advantage divide in this country is now much more economically based than race based.  Poor of any race is equally disadvantaged over wealthy.
 
2013-05-20 10:33:11 PM

Frederick: Poor of any race is equally disadvantaged over under the wealthy.


Fixed that for you, you frederickin classist asshole.
 
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