Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Detroit Free Press)   Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings   ( freep.com) divider line
    More: Hero, President Obama, African-Americans, Morehouse College, historically black colleges, Emancipation Proclamation, global workforce, March on Washington, black man  
•       •       •

5011 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2013 at 7:34 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



297 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2013-05-19 10:23:14 PM  

gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.


Because black people are lazy? Wait, wait, we can't say that anymore. It's because the government has made them dependent, right?
 
2013-05-19 10:23:48 PM  

DayeOfJustice: I'm always suspicious when someone is just waiting for a black person to tell black people to get off their asses and work for a living. And it's just a blatant misuse of the HERO tag.

The problem with this message much of the time is that it's effectively the "bootstraps" message conservatives have been peddling for years, while excluding non-whites and women from participating. If the message is think for yourself, believe in yourself, and fight for yourself (which includes fighting for those in your same situation), then I'd be all about it. But, as long as everything's coming up bootstraps, they can shove it including Obama (who I voted for) because everyone doesn't have straps or boots. It effects no productive change to pretend that's the case.

/Didn't watch vid, mind.


Actually it wasn't. The message I got from it, is that many people aren't born with the bootstraps, and it's up to the community to care about those people and to in turn, help others to succeed. I am sure that message wasn't lost on the Morehouse grads many of whom struggled to be where there were today, and coming from a guy who wasn't born with bootstraps and who has acknowledged he had lots of help from others to be where he was today.


When I said conservatives would have praised it, I didn't mean that it was a "conservative" message. Just
that it was a good speech that anyone, regardless of party could have been proud of. I doubt many conservatives today would have acknowledged the obvious lack of bootstraps allotted to some people, and that we should care about this in any way.
 
2013-05-19 10:27:34 PM  
I think it's relevant to this discussion to point out that we're currently living in a period of American history in which upward mobility is extremely low. [Citation]

So even if you want to dismiss the social and economic impact of 300 years of institutional racism, consider that a person growing up poor in America today is much less likely to emerge from poverty when they reach adulthood than his/her counterpart prior to the end of Jim Crow, i.e. Baby Boomers.

Hard work, personal responsibility, etc. are obviously important values, but they may not be sufficient to overcome poverty.
 
2013-05-19 10:32:06 PM  

The_Sponge: BunkyBrewman: ...and the 'Cos didn't miss a beat. His message has always remained the same regardless of a few distractors.

"Eat Jell-O Pudding Pops"?


Hippin' and a hoppin' and a bippin' and a boppin'. Blizm blozm Kodak.
 
2013-05-19 10:33:24 PM  

alpha charlie bravo: I think it's relevant to this discussion to point out that we're currently living in a period of American history in which upward mobility is extremely low. [Citation]

So even if you want to dismiss the social and economic impact of 300 years of institutional racism, consider that a person growing up poor in America today is much less likely to emerge from poverty when they reach adulthood than his/her counterpart prior to the end of Jim Crow, i.e. Baby Boomers.

Hard work, personal responsibility, etc. are obviously important values, but they may not be sufficient to overcome poverty.


I always get a kick out of "the value of hard work."   The hardest working people are the poorest.  It's pretty much always been that way.

And, since Obama was speaking directly to upwardly mobile black people, it does make the message kinda specific, it seems.

Successful black people, you can continue to succeed!
 
2013-05-19 10:34:54 PM  

sendtodave: I always get a kick out of "the value of hard work."   The hardest working people are the poorest.  It's pretty much always been that way.


Exactly right. The class which makes the most money these days - pretty much all days - is the rentier class which, pretty much by definition, do not do work.
 
2013-05-19 10:37:56 PM  

The Dog Ate My Homework: gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Because black people are lazy? Wait, wait, we can't say that anymore. It's because the government has made them dependent, right?


Well, let's examine the history, shall we?

At no point in their existence here in the Americas has the black population ever been in a good position.  They have, from their very beginnings, been exploited, discriminated against, terrorized, marginalized, segregated and oppressed.

Even when they got freedom from the federal government, that same federal government abandoned them to the local authorities that had, until the Civil War, held them as troublemakers at best and chattel property at worst.  Wide spread oppression for the next 100 years became the norm.

At no point in their history have they EVER had equal footing with the white majority in this country.

Are things better now than they were in 1950?  Oh yes.

But, have we managed to bridge the difference and say honestly that the average black man has the same chances of success as the average white man?  Hells to the no.

And until we can say that honestly, then we have to acknowledge that perpetual cycle of poverty and the wide spread negatives that go along with that cycle.
 
2013-05-19 10:38:13 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: ITT: Wealthy white people who know what poor black people need and what their problem is.


Well, obviously the solution is to cut social services because they're such a huge drain on our deficits.
That money could be best spent elsewhere.

www.kulturekritic.com
 
2013-05-19 10:39:10 PM  
As a white man in Montana...I have no opinion on this whatsoever. But I'll post anyway, because I like posting.

/159th!!
 
2013-05-19 10:39:38 PM  
This coming from a guy making excuses for all his scandals in the past week alone.

/Obvious troll is obvious
/DNR the thread, so this "point" was probably already made in some form.
 
2013-05-19 10:41:57 PM  

Infernalist: But, have we managed to bridge the difference and say honestly that the average black man has the same chances of success as the average white man?  Hells to the no.


If you compare the average black person to the average white person, there is a large gap.

If you compare the average poor black person to the average poor white person, there is a smaller gap.

Poor white trash don't have high chances of success, either.  Or poor anyone, really.
 
2013-05-19 10:42:54 PM  
Fair enough, fair enough, but that also means bigoted assholes get absolutely no quarter anymore.  If you are stupid enough to be a racist farktard, you get what you get.
 
2013-05-19 10:44:45 PM  

sendtodave: I always get a kick out of "the value of hard work."   The hardest working people are the poorest.  It's pretty much always been that way.

And, since Obama was speaking directly to upwardly mobile black people, it does make the message kinda specific, it seems.

Successful black people, you can continue to succeed!


I don't know how upwardly mobile the audience is. I imagine some of the students at Morehouse come from privileged backgrounds, but I'm sure some don't.

Also I agree with you on the "hard work" trope. No one works harder than someone trying to get by with 2 or 3 part-time minimum wage jobs and trying to raise a family. Yet they're constantly lectured about "hard work" by people who feel superior because they sit behind a desk for 60 hours a week.
 
2013-05-19 10:45:05 PM  
Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

FTFObama
 
2013-05-19 10:50:08 PM  
The Dog Ate My Homework:

Because black people are lazy? Wait, wait, we can't say that anymore.


Oh you can say it. Doesn't make it true, but you can say it all you like.
 
2013-05-19 10:51:05 PM  

alpha charlie bravo: I don't know how upwardly mobile the audience is. I imagine some of the students at Morehouse come from privileged backgrounds, but I'm sure some don't.


Fair enough.  I was speaking more to the "hundreds of years of discrimination" idea.  At some point along the line they went from second class citizens to (affluent?) college-attending people.

Maybe not this generation was upwardly mobile, but someone was.  And it was probably harder for whoever did it than white guys, yeah.  Most white guys don't start out poor.

/there I go, bringing class into it again
//but that's what it's all about!
 
2013-05-19 10:53:43 PM  

alpha charlie bravo: sendtodave: I always get a kick out of "the value of hard work."   The hardest working people are the poorest.  It's pretty much always been that way.

And, since Obama was speaking directly to upwardly mobile black people, it does make the message kinda specific, it seems.

Successful black people, you can continue to succeed!

I don't know how upwardly mobile the audience is. I imagine some of the students at Morehouse come from privileged backgrounds, but I'm sure some don't.


Morehouse is private, and more expensive than many other HBCUs, but Googling around it shows that 97% of students are on some sort of financial aid there.
 
2013-05-19 10:54:19 PM  

Infernalist: dustbunnyboo:


There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve, but as long as generational welfare exists (and it does, one way or the other, despite Clinton-era reforms), we will have deeply entrenched poverty, crime, and hopelessness. Maybe we need to go to a work-fare model, or a new CCC or something like that. Not sure.

If you end welfare, people starve.

You know how I know you didn't read what I wrote? The part (above) where I specifically said that we can't let people starve.

Did you consider the ramifications of telling a goodly sized percentage of the population that they're not going to get food stamps anymore?

Have you considered what generational welfare does to people? And again, and really, I can't stress this enough, I specifically said that we can't let people starve.

What do you think happens when those families suddenly stare down the barrel of starvation?  Do you think they're going to magically somehow do something different and, lo, find employment that wasn't there the first 50 times that they looked?

Who said "suddenly", other than you?

Who said that they'd automatically have to try to find work, other than you?

In fact, I said that we might have to help by making work, and cited the CCC, which helped people during the Great Depression.

You seem to be seriously invested in hysterically tarring anyone who says they want to end welfare with your brush.

Have you considered what desperate parents will do to feed their children?  What they will do to complete strangers to feed their children?

Again, since you seem stuck on saying I said what I specifically ruled out, I said: There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve

Do you know the term 'food riot'?  I'll give you a hint, it doesn't involve throwing food at each in a cafeteria.

And again: There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve

End Welfare.  Jesus Christ, I hope and pray you're just trolling, because no one has the right to be that...naive.

No, let's keep what we have, which is:

African Americans have a high rate of unemployment.

BET Founder: 'This Country Would Never Tolerate White Unemployment at 14 or 15 Percent'

They have a high rate of incarceration,

Racial Disparities in Incarceration, NAACP

They have a high rate of illegitimacy.

Blacks struggle with 72 percent unwed mothers rate, NBC

Do people sometimes need help? Absolutely. But what we now call welfare is killing families, and like it or not, families are important to economic success. That isn't an exclusively African American issue. It's a people issue. It isn't even an American issue, It is an issue that the UK is facing, for example, and it's turned out to be painful to fix. It'shiatting African Americans harder because they were closer to the economic bottom to start with, due to hundreds of years of racism and slavery.

We need something different. I have no idea what that something is. It almost certainly isn't one thing. Raising the minimum wage would probably help. Health care will probably help.
 
2013-05-19 10:55:03 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: As a white man in Montana...I have no opinion on this whatsoever. But I'll post anyway, because I like posting.

/159th!!


I live in Montana, but I lived in DC and Indianapolis in the past, so that makes me qualified to comment on other people!
 
2013-05-19 10:57:17 PM  
pull your pants up and speaK ENGLISH!!!!!
 
2013-05-19 10:59:03 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com

It's kind of like telling the Titanic to stop making excuses and float.
 
2013-05-19 11:04:39 PM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


It's appropriate that your Fark handle refers to a toilet.
 
2013-05-19 11:08:16 PM  

dustbunnyboo: We need something different. I have no idea what that something is.


Post-capitalistic, Post scarcity industrial utopia, a society where exponential increases in productivity and automation have led to a self-sufficient economy. Such an economy no longer requires the intervention of humans in order to meet the needs and desires of the world population. Such an economic system could coexist with any political system capable of assuring the sustainability of the system. Proponents include The Venus Project, which calls its vision "resource-based economy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism

GLWT, but the idea is the same.  If a game is rigged by design, perhaps it's time to find a different game.
 
2013-05-19 11:10:49 PM  
I am a brown person, raised by an illiterate single mother in shiat neighborhood.  Now I'm in my thirties, a comfortable upper-middle-class software engineer.  What saved me was being a socially inept autist.  I didn't care when they called me "wanna-be white", because if they weren't calling me that, they were calling me some other slur, making fun of my sneakers, or my clothes aren't name-brand.  Fitting-in was never on the table for me.  I was lonely but I didn't give a fark otherwise.
 
2013-05-19 11:12:47 PM  
Did he stress how important it is to be raised by white people and only white people?

And don't forget to later crap on your grandmother for being afraid of black men despite having "sacrificed again and again for me". That's class.

Who isn't afraid of black men? The most progressive libbylib Farkers, avoid their neighborhoods.
 
2013-05-19 11:19:34 PM  

Vectron: Did he stress how important it is to be raised by white people and only white people?

And don't forget to later crap on your grandmother for being afraid of black men despite having "sacrificed again and again for me". That's class.

Who isn't afraid of black men? The most progressive libbylib Farkers, avoid their neighborhoods.



Gonna go out on a limb here...you're not a big fan of black people are you?
 
2013-05-19 11:20:33 PM  

sendtodave: dustbunnyboo: We need something different. I have no idea what that something is.

Post-capitalistic, Post scarcity industrial utopia, a society where exponential increases in productivity and automation have led to a self-sufficient economy. Such an economy no longer requires the intervention of humans in order to meet the needs and desires of the world population. Such an economic system could coexist with any political system capable of assuring the sustainability of the system. Proponents include The Venus Project, which calls its vision "resource-based economy".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-capitalism

GLWT, but the idea is the same.  If a game is rigged by design, perhaps it's time to find a different game.


Thank you. We have to try something different.

We need to not lose another generation of people to entrenched poverty.
 
2013-05-19 11:21:21 PM  

I Browse: Vectron: Did he stress how important it is to be raised by white people and only white people?

And don't forget to later crap on your grandmother for being afraid of black men despite having "sacrificed again and again for me". That's class.

Who isn't afraid of black men? The most progressive libbylib Farkers, avoid their neighborhoods.


Gonna go out on a limb here...you're not a big fan of black people are you?


What's wrong with what I said? Is it not the truth?
 
2013-05-19 11:25:36 PM  
Vectron:

What's wrong with what I said? Is it not the truth?


It's not my truth. I'm not afraid of black men. But then again I'm black, so...there's that.
 
2013-05-19 11:31:07 PM  

I Browse: Vectron:

What's wrong with what I said? Is it not the truth?


It's not my truth. I'm not afraid of black men. But then again I'm black, so...there's that.


I'm not afraid of them, either.  Well, not most of them.  Maybe I'm part black.

It's best to just mock the trolls.  Not you, mind you, but the other guy talking about libbylibs.
 
2013-05-19 11:33:28 PM  
Infernalist:

It's best to just mock the trolls.  Not you, mind you, but the other guy talking about libbylibs.

I get that. But my curiosity gets the best of me. I never get to talk to people with views like that in my real life. So when I get the chance on line, sometimes I can't help myself.
 
2013-05-19 11:36:35 PM  
Did he mention that pesky Achievement Gap?

That's kind of the elephant in the living room isn't it?

Head Start has been shown to be a failure and incredible waste of money (don't hold your breath for it to end mr and mrs. taxpayer) . Self esteem work, Ebonics. We've tried so many ideas. Coming up with new solutions for the Achievement Gap has become a large industry. Each new idea is heralded as the solution. Each new idea fails. :-(
 
2013-05-19 11:38:09 PM  

Smackledorfer: Which white musicians and pop culture icons raised you to put on a suit and be professional?

None I ever listened to.

My parents did though, and now I have an education and a solid job.


Timbuk 3 and "The future's so bright I gotta wear shades"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qrriKcwvlY
Of course that took me a minute to think of, the very definition of the exception that proves the rule.
 
2013-05-19 11:38:46 PM  

I Browse: But my curiosity gets the best of me. I never get to talk to people with views like that in my real life.


I'm going to shut down for the night, but perhaps some other time we can have a dialogue. g'night
 
2013-05-19 11:45:10 PM  
Sounds like impeachy boy's "the era of big government is over".
 
2013-05-19 11:54:57 PM  
Bill Cosby tells black people to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for themselves, people are outraged.

Obama tells black people to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for themselves, nobody cares.

The world is a strange place.
 
2013-05-19 11:59:07 PM  

I Browse: Vectron:

What's wrong with what I said? Is it not the truth?


It's not my truth. I'm not afraid of black men. But then again I'm black, so...there's that.


Ah, good, now we've come to the root of your problems. I am kidding!  :)
 
2013-05-19 11:59:29 PM  

adamatari: You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.


No, you can't, and you shouldn't. Does it matter what color their skin is, or whether their parents don't have a clue because their parents were the grandchildren of slaves or the grandchildren of peckerwoods? Because granddaddy was a black sharecropper in Alabamy or a white coal miner in West Virginia?

The difference is, there is no National Association for the Advancement of White Trash; there is no United Honky College Fund. If a black kid fails because of institutionalized racism, which there is plenty of and it's despicable and inexcusable, he or she has a fallback that "you can't blame a kid because of racism". If a white kid fails because of institutionalized classism, of which there is plenty too, equally despicable and inexcusable, he or she does not get a pass because of us coasties being prejudiced against hillbillies. But we are, oh, yes, we are.

The point being that NOBODY should get to PERSONALLY blame his or her failings on racism or classism or whatever. If a black kid winds up in prison, it may be that in general, cops arrest more blacks than whites, but THAT KID does not get to say "It's not my fault I broke into that house/robbed that 7-11/beat up that girl/shot that guy, it's because I'm black." If a black kid fails his algebra class because he didn't turn in his homework or study, he cannot say "It's not my fault, the teacher just hates black kids." Now, if cops are arresting more blacks, if the school is overall failing more blacks, that's on us as a society, but any individual kid should never be allowed to use it as their personal justification. Any more than that poor white miner's kid gets to.

Raise kids to own their own faults, we might have fewer black kids in the Crips and fewer white kids in the Aryan Nations, perhaps; instead of blaming their failings on teh n*ggers and Whitey.
 
2013-05-20 12:00:19 AM  
Does this mean drug-trafficking, prostitution and other organized crimes will take their corrupt cops and judges and move to traditionally white neighborhoods now?

And banks and other necessary institutions for economic viability will move in to red-lined neighborhoods?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
 
2013-05-20 12:01:39 AM  

darkjezter: Bill Cosby tells black people to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for themselves, people are outraged.

Obama tells black people to stop playing the victim and take responsibility for themselves, nobody cares.

The world is a strange place.


Bill Cosby was a fairly successful comedian who played a doctor on TV.  To be fair, he did have a education doctorate, and his words carried weight for people that value middle class "white" lifestyle..

Barack Obama is the most powerful man in the world.  He's a pimp and playa.

S'all about the Benjies.
 
2013-05-20 12:02:47 AM  

Gyrfalcon: The difference is, there is no National Association for the Advancement of White Trash; there is no United Honky College Fund. If a black kid fails because of institutionalized racism, which there is plenty of and it's despicable and inexcusable, he or she has a fallback that "you can't blame a kid because of racism". If a white kid fails because of institutionalized classism, of which there is plenty too, equally despicable and inexcusable, he or she does not get a pass because of us coasties being prejudiced against hillbillies. But we are, oh, yes, we are.


+1 Smart
 
2013-05-20 12:05:37 AM  
Am I actually reading the Fark Rightard usual suspects giving Obama props for once?
 
2013-05-20 12:07:21 AM  

Vectron: Did he mention that pesky Achievement Gap?

That's kind of the elephant in the living room isn't it?

Head Start has been shown to be a failure and incredible waste of money (don't hold your breath for it to end mr and mrs. taxpayer) . Self esteem work, Ebonics. We've tried so many ideas. Coming up with new solutions for the Achievement Gap has become a large industry. Each new idea is heralded as the solution. Each new idea fails. :-(


Ah... one of those. I get that this guy's probably just trolling for the lulz, but there are people who try this shtick in real life. Once you call them on their racist bullshiat, they'll say stuff like "Whoah, hey, I never said anything about black people being inherently inferior... sounds like you're the real racist!" They actually seem to think, for some reason, that this will work.

What people like this don't realize is that not only do normal people see right through their bullshiat, they actually have even less respect for them than they would for actual overt racists, because those guys are at least up-front about it.
 
2013-05-20 12:08:27 AM  

spiderpaz: Am I actually reading the Fark Rightard usual suspects giving Obama props for once?


Well, he's not coming off like an Kenyan Muslin ursurper.  He's talkin' white.

Well spoken.
 
2013-05-20 12:14:56 AM  

spiderpaz: Am I actually reading the Fark Rightard usual suspects giving Obama props for once?


Only because his actual message flew right over their heads.
 
2013-05-20 12:26:57 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice

I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?


DIA being obtuse? no way!
 
2013-05-20 01:02:32 AM  

log_jammin: Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice

I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?

DIA being obtuse? no way!


Apparently, he's unable to read between his own lines.
 
2013-05-20 01:10:30 AM  

Lionel Mandrake: log_jammin: Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice

I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?

DIA being obtuse? no way!

Apparently, he's unable to read between his own lines.


I'm just proud of him for not going with "Do you itemize?" for a change.
 
2013-05-20 01:24:59 AM  

log_jammin: Lionel Mandrake: log_jammin: Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice

I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?

DIA being obtuse? no way!

Apparently, he's unable to read between his own lines.

I'm just proud of him for not going with "Do you itemize?" for a change.


...or bringing up feral pigs
 
2013-05-20 01:32:54 AM  
Surf on over to drudge for some quality race baiting regarding this speech.

/the realclearpolitics article and comments he links to are a rich vein of derp
 
Displayed 50 of 297 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.

In Other Media
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report