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(Detroit Free Press)   Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings   (freep.com) divider line 297
    More: Hero, President Obama, African-Americans, Morehouse College, historically black colleges, Emancipation Proclamation, global workforce, March on Washington, black man  
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4998 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2013 at 7:34 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-19 08:56:11 PM

IamTomJoad: Yeah, blacks should just "get over it".

If they try hard and work at it there is a place at the table for them.

Course when you hear television and radio telling you that even the President of the United States isn't really qualified and is an affirmative action recipient do you think a black kid looking up to him thinks I should try harder? Or does that kid say "Screw it. Even if I work hard and get to Harvard they still won't accept me"

How much does that kid have to endure before he is "allowed" by white society to become frustrated and why do whites feel the need to dismiss the reasons for said frustration before we finally say "that shiats not right and we need to fix it"?


That is exactly the problem

Harvard is not an entitlement.
That kid can work hard, get perfect sat scores and still be rejected. Just like the 94 percent of the people who apply.
 
2013-05-19 08:56:52 PM

sendtodave: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color oftheir skin, but by the content of their character."

Has this come to pass?


Trayvon Martin thinks not.
 
2013-05-19 08:58:27 PM

Infernalist: Especially when that culture preaches it, day in and day out.  "Work hard and you can be anything you want!"

Bullshiat you will.  Success is equal parts education and pure farking luck these days.

Even people with good degrees find it hard to find success these days.  So, the old cultural fairy tale of 'work hard and succeed' needs to die.  It takes a lot more learning than working hard and we have to start emphasizing that in our culture.

Stop fixating on pretty people in Hollywood and retards in the music industry.  Focus on the people that invent things.


THIS. Good farking lord, every time I heard someone say 'oh, I'll just get a job at McDonald's and work my way up!' I wanted to facepalm.

Space Banana Physicist: PsiChick: white trash

Chiiiick ... the preferred nomenclature is 'attractive & successful Caucasian-American.'


Ha ha. Most of them will willingly refer to themselves as white trash and wear it as a badge of honor, right alongside their Tapout shirt while they blare rock songs and country music.
 
2013-05-19 08:58:46 PM
Economy.  NOT MY FAULT!
Libya.  NOT MY FAULT!
IRS.  NOT MY FAULT!
AP phone records. NOT MY FAULT!

BLACK MEN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

*rolls eyes*
 
2013-05-19 08:59:33 PM

Infernalist: Society 'is' society and we're all expected to at least TRY to conform to what a 'successful' man looks and acts like.


Hm.  I don't think that the older brother could just throw on a suit and be accepted into the white boys club.

It takes more than trying.  You need to be culturally assimilated.  You need to BE white (except for the skin color, of course).

Oh, crap, I think I just used by immigrant best friend to make an argument against multiculturalism.  I feel dirty.

/saw this same thing with a Korean friend
//FOB mother was a cleaning lady; he liked to play golf
///he turned out well
 
2013-05-19 08:59:47 PM

WaffleStomper: Economy.  NOT MY FAULT!
Libya.  NOT MY FAULT!
IRS.  NOT MY FAULT!
AP phone records. NOT MY FAULT!

BLACK MEN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

*rolls eyes*


I don't think anyone in here has blamed you for any of that stuff, dude.
 
2013-05-19 09:02:18 PM

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.



Don't forget the governments role in perpetuating the cycle by allowing generations of African Americans to wallow in self pity and government handouts.
 
2013-05-19 09:02:34 PM

sendtodave: Infernalist: Society 'is' society and we're all expected to at least TRY to conform to what a 'successful' man looks and acts like.

Hm.  I don't think that the older brother could just throw on a suit and be accepted into the white boys club.

It takes more than trying.  You need to be culturally assimilated.  You need to BE white (except for the skin color, of course).

Oh, crap, I think I just used by immigrant best friend to make an argument against multiculturalism.  I feel dirty.

/saw this same thing with a Korean friend
//FOB mother was a cleaning lady; he liked to play golf
///he turned out well


Well, it takes more than just putting on the suit.  You have to actually 'want' to be part of that culture and to be accepted into the social whole.

So, you talk like them.  Act like them.  Go to the same places, eat the same kinds of food, listen to the same kinds of music, watch the same entertainment.

Like you said, you have to assimilate and wow, it has to suck, when you think about it.  But, then again, it sucked in high school, too, so it shouldn't have come as a shock to me, now that I think about it.
 
2013-05-19 09:03:43 PM

Truther: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


Don't forget the governments role in perpetuating the cycle by allowing generations of African Americans to wallow in self pity and government handouts.


Yeah, shoulda just let them all starve.  That'd teach em to lift their people up out of poverty by sheer force of their will and desire to eat.
 
2013-05-19 09:04:16 PM

Infernalist: sendtodave: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color oftheir skin, but by the content of their character."

Has this come to pass?

Trayvon Martin thinks not.


Fair point.  But, people in hoodies are pretty scary.

ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2013-05-19 09:04:37 PM

Summercat: tenpoundsofcheese: TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

That was really an excellent speech with a great message.

Hopefully it gets a lot of positive coverage.

I've read this about six or seven times.

And I can't see what the hell tpoc is getting at. I mean, there's got to me some snark there, there seriously has got to be something. I mean, goddamnit, it's TPOC! THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING

There was a Garfield comic years ago where Jon was explaining how there's cat hairs in everything, even his food, and he was demonstrating, but couldn't find it, and totally disassembled his meal to find it... last panel is Garfield going "Oh, whoops, forgot to put one in."

I FEEL THAT RIGHT NOW


Sorry. No snark and no cat hair

Just because i disagree with many of his policies, I completely agree with this

Not only that, but he deserves a lot of credit for being so vocal and straight forward about it

Btw as I mentioned before
He is a great dad and husband
I admire that he believes so much in public service and spent so much of his life on that
I think he is the best campaigner we have ever seen
There is more.
 
2013-05-19 09:05:00 PM
'Stop making excuses and start making progress' is a good thing to tell any group.

Hey, here's a thought. Someone should send a guy with a bullhorn over to Congress with that message.

Wonder if Mo Rocca is busy.
 
2013-05-19 09:05:33 PM

PsiChick: Ha ha. Most of them will willingly refer to themselves as white trash and wear it as a badge of honor


All too true.

But I feel like I've heard that same phrase used in another context ...
 
2013-05-19 09:07:06 PM

I_C_Weener: No time like the present to start. Just like my doc said about quitting smoking.


Why, that's a perfect analogy!
 
2013-05-19 09:07:47 PM

Space Banana Physicist: PsiChick: Ha ha. Most of them will willingly refer to themselves as white trash and wear it as a badge of honor

All too true.

But I feel like I've heard that same phrase used in another context ...


White trash, please.

Huh.  Doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
2013-05-19 09:09:12 PM

bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?


The chicken of course
 
2013-05-19 09:10:59 PM

jaylectricity: You're all missing the point. He's telling this to black men who are already in school to better their lives. This would hit harder if he were standing in the ghetto talking like this.


Actually a big part of his speech was about the graduates helping to lift others up, and paying it forward. I'm pretty sure he has done lots of work in the ghetto, when he was in Chicago. I hope he continues that work and expands on it after his presidential term is up.
 
2013-05-19 09:11:54 PM

Space Banana Physicist: PsiChick: Ha ha. Most of them will willingly refer to themselves as white trash and wear it as a badge of honor

All too true.

But I feel like I've heard that same phrase used in another context ...


I live on the Internet, so I've probably never heard that phrase.
 
2013-05-19 09:13:59 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


So, you're black?
 
2013-05-19 09:14:54 PM
This thread is just a few posts from critical mass

i am become

i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-19 09:15:02 PM

Infernalist: Success is equal parts education and pure farking luck these days.


That's always been the case.  You can't do anything about the luck aspect.  But if you willingly dismiss the education because you don't think you're going to hit the luck part you're done before you start.  If anyone tells you they've never had a lucky break, the truth is probably that they've been too unprepared to notice when they happened or take advantage of them.
 
2013-05-19 09:15:23 PM

sendtodave: jaylectricity: You're all missing the point. He's telling this to black men who are already in school to better their lives. This would hit harder if he were standing in the ghetto talking like this.

I don't think it would hit harder.  I think it would fall flat.

"You can go out there and succeed, regardless of your race, college educated people!"  "Yes we can!"

"You can go out there and succeed, regardless of your race, inner city poor people!"  "Fark you!"


I get that, but what I was saying was that he is preaching to the choir. He'd probably get stabbed if he was standing in front of a liquor store telling a young Tre Styles (Cuba Gooding Jr) and company to man up and become successful (and legal) businessmen.
 
2013-05-19 09:18:15 PM

sendtodave: White trash, please.

Huh.  Doesn't have the same ring to it.


Give it some time.

PsiChick: Space Banana Physicist: PsiChick: Ha ha. Most of them will willingly refer to themselves as white trash and wear it as a badge of honor

All too true.

But I feel like I've heard that same phrase used in another context ...

I live on the Internet, so I've probably never heard that phrase.


Good.

In fact, that's farking awesome.
 
2013-05-19 09:21:22 PM
I'd have liked to see George W Bush say something like this at a college commencement:  "There's no longer any room for excuses for white men.  It's true that the bitter legacies of the defeat of the Confederacy and of affirmative action still exist, but we're living in a competitive world, and nobody's going to give you anything you didn't earn.  Don't wallow in self pity and blame others when something goes wrong, set an example for others by being a better husband and father."
 
2013-05-19 09:23:26 PM

tirob: I'd have liked to see George W Bush say something like this at a college commencement:  "There's no longer any room for excuses for white men.  It's true that the bitter legacies of the defeat of the Confederacy and of affirmative action still exist, but we're living in a competitive world, and nobody's going to give you anything you didn't earn.  Don't wallow in self pity and blame others when something goes wrong, set an example for others by being a better husband and father."


continuing: "put the golf clubs down, delete your pinterest and facebook accounts, stop gaming, do not consider an ar-15 to be a real gun..."
 
2013-05-19 09:24:26 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Summercat: tenpoundsofcheese: TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

That was really an excellent speech with a great message.

Hopefully it gets a lot of positive coverage.

I've read this about six or seven times.

And I can't see what the hell tpoc is getting at. I mean, there's got to me some snark there, there seriously has got to be something. I mean, goddamnit, it's TPOC! THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING

There was a Garfield comic years ago where Jon was explaining how there's cat hairs in everything, even his food, and he was demonstrating, but couldn't find it, and totally disassembled his meal to find it... last panel is Garfield going "Oh, whoops, forgot to put one in."

I FEEL THAT RIGHT NOW

Sorry. No snark and no cat hair

Just because i disagree with many of his policies, I completely agree with this

Not only that, but he deserves a lot of credit for being so vocal and straight forward about it

Btw as I mentioned before
He is a great dad and husband
I admire that he believes so much in public service and spent so much of his life on that
I think he is the best campaigner we have ever seen
There is more.


My head assplode.
 
2013-05-19 09:27:23 PM

gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy. Its a self-perpetuating cycle of broken, fatherless families, poverty, and lack of education.

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.


The "white man's burden," aka, progressivism.
 
2013-05-19 09:30:16 PM

Infernalist: Gulper Eel: Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.

He's good at that. The actions the president has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.


Just out of curiosity, what actions do you think he should take to reinforce his speech?


End welfare.

Seriously.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, but I have personally seen welfare wreck the lives and aspirations of people. If it isn't welfare, it's being on disability, which has exploded since welfare reform.

And thankfully, anecdotes aren't really needed, since welfare reform acknowledged these very things - that generational welfare was deeply harmful. It strips generations of people of all sense of responsibility and robs them of their desire to achieve.

There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve, but as long as generational welfare exists (and it does, one way or the other, despite Clinton-era reforms), we will have deeply entrenched poverty, crime, and hopelessness. Maybe we need to go to a work-fare model, or a new CCC or something like that. Not sure.

Entangling people in the welfare system and making them permanently dependent on the government is just terrible. Terrible for the individual, for the family, for society, and for the economy.

Unfit for Work The startling rise of disability in America (NPR)
 
2013-05-19 09:31:00 PM
I'm always suspicious when someone is just waiting for a black person to tell black people to get off their asses and work for a living. And it's just a blatant misuse of the HERO tag.

The problem with this message much of the time is that it's effectively the "bootstraps" message conservatives have been peddling for years, while excluding non-whites and women from participating. If the message is think for yourself, believe in yourself, and fight for yourself (which includes fighting for those in your same situation), then I'd be all about it. But, as long as everything's coming up bootstraps, they can shove it including Obama (who I voted for) because everyone doesn't have straps or boots. It effects no productive change to pretend that's the case.

/Didn't watch vid, mind.
 
2013-05-19 09:34:12 PM

dustbunnyboo: Infernalist: Gulper Eel: Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.

He's good at that. The actions the president has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.

Just out of curiosity, what actions do you think he should take to reinforce his speech?

End welfare.

Seriously.

The plural of anecdote isn't data, but I have personally seen welfare wreck the lives and aspirations of people. If it isn't welfare, it's being on disability, which has exploded since welfare reform.

And thankfully, anecdotes aren't really needed, since welfare reform acknowledged these very things - that generational welfare was deeply harmful. It strips generations of people of all sense of responsibility and robs them of their desire to achieve.

There has to be a safety net, and we can't let people starve, but as long as generational welfare exists (and it does, one way or the other, despite Clinton-era reforms), we will have deeply entrenched poverty, crime, and hopelessness. Maybe we need to go to a work-fare model, or a new CCC or something like that. Not sure.

Entangling people in the welfare system and making them permanently dependent on the government is just terrible. Terrible for the individual, for the family, for society, and for the economy.

Unfit for Work The startling rise of disability in America (NPR)


If you end welfare, people starve.

Did you consider the ramifications of telling a goodly sized percentage of the population that they're not going to get food stamps anymore?

What do you think happens when those families suddenly stare down the barrel of starvation?  Do you think they're going to magically somehow do something different and, lo, find employment that wasn't there the first 50 times that they looked?

Have you considered what desperate parents will do to feed their children?  What they will do to complete strangers to feed their children?

Do you know the term 'food riot'?  I'll give you a hint, it doesn't involve throwing food at each in a cafeteria.

End Welfare.  Jesus Christ, I hope and pray you're just trolling, because no one has the right to be that...naive.
 
2013-05-19 09:34:37 PM

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-19 09:35:03 PM

sendtodave: Infernalist: sendtodave: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color oftheir skin, but by the content of their character."

Has this come to pass?

Trayvon Martin thinks not.

Fair point.  But, people in hoodies are pretty scary.

[ts4.mm.bing.net image 131x177]


Damn, looks like even Weird Al looks scary in a hoodie.
 
2013-05-19 09:35:27 PM

WaffleStomper: Economy.  NOT MY FAULT!
Libya.  NOT MY FAULT!
IRS.  NOT MY FAULT!
AP phone records. NOT MY FAULT!

BLACK MEN, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!

*rolls eyes*


I love when trolls show themselves like a toddler crying for attention, each post a larger scream than the last.
 
2013-05-19 09:36:19 PM

DayeOfJustice: I'm always suspicious when someone is just waiting for a black person to tell black people to get off their asses and work for a living. And it's just a blatant misuse of the HERO tag.

The problem with this message much of the time is that it's effectively the "bootstraps" message conservatives have been peddling for years, while excluding non-whites and women from participating. If the message is think for yourself, believe in yourself, and fight for yourself (which includes fighting for those in your same situation), then I'd be all about it. But, as long as everything's coming up bootstraps, they can shove it including Obama (who I voted for) because everyone doesn't have straps or boots. It effects no productive change to pretend that's the case.

/Didn't watch vid, mind.


He wasn't telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

He was telling a graduating class of college kids to give back to the community and help improve their communities and 'pay it forward'.

It was the 'anti-bootstrap' speech.  Help your neighbors and community and those that come after you to do better.
 
2013-05-19 09:47:32 PM
There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.
 
2013-05-19 09:51:45 PM

Infernalist: TheEdibleSnuggie: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

This is pretty much spot on.

Though throw in all that; with a little dibble of social engineering, and a dabble of social welfare programs...and voila!  Also add the fact that the benefits of a positive male influence have been HEAVILY de-emphasized in Black culture; it's all just adds up to a complete mess.

The fact that I'm Black, 28, with a stable full-time job (that pays excellent benefits), a college education, a pilot's license, and no kids...Something like that really shouldn't be seen as an the exception to the rule.

/I'm a hit with the recently divorced women, however...
//I avoid recently divorced ...


Just avoid giving them your real address. sheesh
 
2013-05-19 09:53:19 PM

Aye Carumba: There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.


You're clearly not from a city that has an Irish-/Puerto Rican-/Cuban-/Polish-/etc.-American Heritage Parade every week during the summer.
 
2013-05-19 09:54:12 PM

Aye Carumba: Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans.


German Americans.  Irish Americans.  Italian Americans.  Latino Americans...
 
2013-05-19 09:56:41 PM

Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice


I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?
 
2013-05-19 09:59:08 PM
This thread sure brought em out. Trolls and racists and bigots, oh my!
 
2013-05-19 10:00:39 PM

Infernalist: sendtodave: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color oftheir skin, but by the content of their character."

Has this come to pass?

Trayvon Martin thinks not.


The seer has spoken. Kenny Craig would like your number.
 
2013-05-19 10:01:33 PM

Aye Carumba: There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.


Goddamn right!  There's only two groups in my book: us and them.
 
2013-05-19 10:02:29 PM

gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy.


I'm sorry?
 
2013-05-19 10:05:40 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

Yes. There was and is still institutional, subtle and even overt racism.
However reacting to that by de-emphazing education and destigmitizing criminal behavior seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Asians took a different approach and although we haven't had an Asian President many are doing well.

(Yes I know they were never slaves but they did face a lot of racism)


The difference between Asian immigrants and black people in the US in terms of obstacles encountered and overcome is probably better suited for a sociologist or cultural anthropologist who has studied it in depth, but here's my quick-and-dirty off the hip take -

Many of the Asian immigrants to the US came here by choice, and aside from those very early on who came to work the railroads and other manual jobs, came over with the express purpose of building a better life through either starting their own businesses or taking advantage of educational opportunities here.  The value of a good education is much more heavily emphasized in the stereotypical Asian household than it is in the stereotypical poor black household.  When your parents push you from day 1 to get straight As, go to a good college, and become a doctor or lawyer, your chances of breaking the cycle of generational poverty are much greater.  Plus, at least from what I've seen, most Asians don't experience as much racism as black people as long as they speak fluent English without much of an accent and fit more or less into mainstream society culturally.

Now, there are some very insular poor Asian immigrant communities in the US that likely face problems similar to those of poor black communities - but the overall Asian population in the US is much smaller than the black population, and the poor Asian communities tend to also be rather secretive, keep to themselves, and often due to being made up of more recent immigrants, have the language barrier issue - so they just aren't as visible to society at large and don't get as much press.
 
2013-05-19 10:06:32 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: ..so vote white Republican. Nice

I missed that sentence. Could you point it out to me?


'don't vote anything black or democrat'

But I'm sure your take-away was a hispanic or asian member of the green party?

Thinly veiled svwr is thinly veiled.
 
2013-05-19 10:06:46 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=derzWWYf3-w&feature=player_detailpage #t =107s
 
2013-05-19 10:11:13 PM

DamnYankees: gilgigamesh: I think its obvious that today, the black community in America is its own worst enemy.

I'm sorry?


It's like that one scene from the Sopranos. "You are your own worst enemy" can be said to pretty much anyone while still (if you interpret it creatively enough) being true, and it's got that vaguely poetic ring to it which makes it sound somewhat profound in any context.
 
2013-05-19 10:11:31 PM
ITT: Wealthy white people who know what poor black people need and what their problem is.
 
2013-05-19 10:13:18 PM

The Great EZE: Aye Carumba: There is as long as they're still called "African" Americans, the term is offensive, might as well say "Quasi" American. Not real American, you're really African. How about we go with Americanized Africans? Silly crap. You are black, you are white whatever you are American. Nobody talks of European Americans, or South American Americans. I call bullshiat. It's white, brown, yellow, red and black. All American.

You're clearly not from a city that has an Irish-/Puerto Rican-/Cuban-/Polish-/etc.-American Heritage Parade every week during the summer.


You are correct. In San Jose all we get is Cinco de Mayo, which celebrates the defeat of France by Mexico. Sort of a fark you America celebration with lots of looting and burning. Weird how this shiat bothers me at all, but it came up in court once, I said "your honor that's when I was surrounded and beaten by 7 Mexicans" to which the defense argued I was a racist because they could have been from Peru or some crap. I should have said "short brown people, maybe Americans who prefer to be considered a foreign nationality in a captured land, with bad moustaches".
 
2013-05-19 10:17:36 PM

Infernalist: Even people with good degrees find it hard to find success these days.  So, the old cultural fairy tale of 'work hard and succeed' needs to die.  It takes a lot more learning than working hard and we have to start emphasizing that in our culture.


"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."
 
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