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(Detroit Free Press)   Obama tells African Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings   (freep.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, President Obama, African-Americans, Morehouse College, historically black colleges, Emancipation Proclamation, global workforce, March on Washington, black man  
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5010 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 May 2013 at 7:34 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-19 08:12:27 PM  

cc_rider: Saw this live, as it happened. It was a damn good speech that would be lauded by conservatives if one of their own had given it.


That's all anyone needs to know about this speech and, really, anything that has happened over the past five years.
 
2013-05-19 08:12:33 PM  
The halfrican Muslim Uncle Tombama went full Huxtable and pissed off his flock of black sheep now.

Both sides are racist, vote Republican.
 
2013-05-19 08:13:21 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


The interesting thing is that black leaders knew how to solve a lot of it, even back in the reconstruction days.  Read the autobiographies of Fredrick Douglass and Booker T. Washington- they understood perfectly

1) Get an education.  Knowledge is power, and if you aren't educated you'll never have power
2) Work your ass off.  It doesn't need to be glamorous work, but do it.

That's all you can really do as an individual.  You need other kinds of actions to remove barriers like Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but those are tamped down (albeit not gone by any stretch) today.   My kids are multi-racial and if I ever hear them disparaging education as "acting white" they'll never hear the end of it.  Folks like Douglass risked whippings or worse for learning to read- nothing today comes close to that sort of barrier to education.
 
2013-05-19 08:14:02 PM  
Black people have nobody but themselves to blame for where their culture is at today.

/doesn't stop them from trying, though.
 
2013-05-19 08:15:11 PM  
This is only somewhat related but I recall awhile ago reading a news story about a black teenager, somewhere around the age of 15.  He was quite gifted mathematically but sadly he was living in an area where his peers considered such a gift to be deserving of ridicule so he hid it and tried to act like a thug; a sort of camouflage to avoid being beaten.  Unfortunately, as he was walking home one day, he was killed by a stray bullet.  It is a tragedy.
 
2013-05-19 08:17:55 PM  
Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.
 
2013-05-19 08:18:10 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

The interesting thing is that black leaders knew how to solve a lot of it, even back in the reconstruction days.  Read the autobiographies of Fredrick Douglass and Booker T. Washington- they understood perfectly

1) Get an education.  Knowledge is power, and if you aren't educated you'll never have power
2) Work your ass off.  It doesn't need to be glamorous work, but do it.

That's all you can really do as an individual.  You need other kinds of actions to remove barriers like Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but those are tamped down (albeit not gone by any stretch) today.   My kids are multi-racial and if I ever hear them dis ...


Learning to read? No.

But the current urban culture treats the professional world like it's a bad thing.  It's hard to appeal to youngsters when their culture heroes are telling them to party, get drunk, sleep around, smoke weed and get rich by being rappers and/or sports stars instead of working hard and going to college.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGudnwTN_to
 
2013-05-19 08:21:08 PM  
Yeah, blacks should just "get over it".

If they try hard and work at it there is a place at the table for them.

Course when you hear television and radio telling you that even the President of the United States isn't really qualified and is an affirmative action recipient do you think a black kid looking up to him thinks I should try harder? Or does that kid say "Screw it. Even if I work hard and get to Harvard they still won't accept me"

How much does that kid have to endure before he is "allowed" by white society to become frustrated and why do whites feel the need to dismiss the reasons for said frustration before we finally say "that shiats not right and we need to fix it"?
 
2013-05-19 08:21:18 PM  

Summercat: So, showing a line of cultural development that was originated in the 1700s plantation slave culture of the Deep South and Tidewater, along with continuous impact of development from the immediate antebellum impact upon said developed culture, and the additional 100 years or so of institutionalized discrimination against members of said culture (as well as those trying to break out of said culture by being called Uppity), leading up to the present day...


That stuff's complicated.  It's easier to say "it's your own damn fault" and go back to the nice job you got with your college education provided by the college-educated parents who raised you in a safe suburban neighborhood and didn't do drugs and signed you up for kindergarten and little league and took you to the doctor.  After all, if you can make it, why can't some kid from a broken home in a violent slum raised by an abusive drug addict who spends more time in jail than at home?

In America, we all have equal opportunity!
 
2013-05-19 08:21:41 PM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


So, you think he was waiting until after the election to say something about them not needing excuses anymore?

That if he'd said it BEFORE the election, they would have..what?  Voted for Romney?  lol
 
2013-05-19 08:22:59 PM  
This young thread has already proven if there was one thing wrong with Obama's speech it was that he didn't anticipate how his own words would be used as an excuse to pile on black people under the guise of "agreement."
 
2013-05-19 08:23:00 PM  
"Racism no longer exists, because we have a black president.  Me."
 
2013-05-19 08:23:42 PM  
Oh, not this crap again. Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people. It's all a huge sham, anyway. Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.

Does Obama actually think he's doing any good, or is this just what he believes (that Black people need to stop whining and start working, which hey, guess what, they already are), or is this his way to get some more political capital to distract people from his non-performance in things that actually matter?
 
2013-05-19 08:23:58 PM  

IamTomJoad: Yeah, blacks should just "get over it".

If they try hard and work at it there is a place at the table for them.

Course when you hear television and radio telling you that even the President of the United States isn't really qualified and is an affirmative action recipient do you think a black kid looking up to him thinks I should try harder? Or does that kid say "Screw it. Even if I work hard and get to Harvard they still won't accept me"

How much does that kid have to endure before he is "allowed" by white society to become frustrated and why do whites feel the need to dismiss the reasons for said frustration before we finally say "that shiats not right and we need to fix it"?


Because admitting that minorities still face steep obstacles to even moderate success means that they have to stop, look at their own success and wonder how much of it was 'really' difficult, and how much of it was made easier simply because they had the good luck to be born white.
 
2013-05-19 08:24:59 PM  

grahamsletter: Oh, not this crap again. Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people. It's all a huge sham, anyway. Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.

Does Obama actually think he's doing any good, or is this just what he believes (that Black people need to stop whining and start working, which hey, guess what, they already are), or is this his way to get some more political capital to distract people from his non-performance in things that actually matter?


Like what?  Specifically, please.
 
2013-05-19 08:27:22 PM  

grahamsletter: Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people.


Why is he playing to conservative white people?  They don't listen to him anyway.
 
2013-05-19 08:31:32 PM  

Infernalist: Glockenspiel Hero: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

The interesting thing is that black leaders knew how to solve a lot of it, even back in the reconstruction days.  Read the autobiographies of Fredrick Douglass and Booker T. Washington- they understood perfectly

1) Get an education.  Knowledge is power, and if you aren't educated you'll never have power
2) Work your ass off.  It doesn't need to be glamorous work, but do it.

That's all you can really do as an individual.  You need other kinds of actions to remove barriers like Jim Crow laws and sundown towns, but those are tamped down (albeit not gone by any stretch) today.   My kids are multi-racial and if I ever hear them dis ...

Learning to read? No.

But the current urban culture treats the professional world like it's a bad thing.  It's hard to appeal to youngsters when their culture heroes are telling them to party, get drunk, sleep around, smoke weed and get rich by being rappers and/or sports stars instead of working hard and going to college.

Of course, there are exceptions to the rule.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGudnwTN_to


Which white musicians and pop culture icons raised you to put on a suit and be professional?

None I ever listened to.

My parents did though, and now I have an education and a solid job.
 
2013-05-19 08:31:32 PM  

Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.


You wonder what's up with what?

What sort of problem do you see with a person saying those two things?

You seem to have "discovered" some sort of inconsistency or hypocrisy that I do not think is there.
 
2013-05-19 08:32:29 PM  

Infernalist: Because admitting that minorities still face steep obstacles to even moderate success means that they have to stop, look at their own success and wonder how much of it was 'really' difficult, and how much of it was made easier simply because they had the good luck to be born white.


You don't need to be born white to "easily" succeed.

You need to walk, talk, and have the same goals as a white guy, though.  I think it's foreign cultures that white people are scared of any more (and this includes "black" culture).

/I can even back that assertion up with anecdotes
 
2013-05-19 08:32:40 PM  

utah dude: James F. Campbell: No one chooses to be born.

my religion says otherwise.


Well, you're a moron, so...
 
2013-05-19 08:33:30 PM  
Whoops, I meant to say "Mormon." No idea how that happened.
 
2013-05-19 08:34:54 PM  
Awesome. He should start enacting policies that reflect this.

Also, I can't wait to see the Freeper responses. That will be priceless.
 
2013-05-19 08:35:09 PM  

Infernalist: grahamsletter: Oh, not this crap again. Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people. It's all a huge sham, anyway. Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.

Does Obama actually think he's doing any good, or is this just what he believes (that Black people need to stop whining and start working, which hey, guess what, they already are), or is this his way to get some more political capital to distract people from his non-performance in things that actually matter?

Like what?  Specifically, please.


Eh, I don't feel like getting into this argument. To all who read my previous comment: disregard the second paragraph.
 
2013-05-19 08:35:22 PM  

Infernalist: IamTomJoad: Yeah, blacks should just "get over it".

If they try hard and work at it there is a place at the table for them.

Course when you hear television and radio telling you that even the President of the United States isn't really qualified and is an affirmative action recipient do you think a black kid looking up to him thinks I should try harder? Or does that kid say "Screw it. Even if I work hard and get to Harvard they still won't accept me"

How much does that kid have to endure before he is "allowed" by white society to become frustrated and why do whites feel the need to dismiss the reasons for said frustration before we finally say "that shiats not right and we need to fix it"?

Because admitting that minorities still face steep obstacles to even moderate success means that they have to stop, look at their own success and wonder how much of it was 'really' difficult, and how much of it was made easier simply because they had the good luck to be born white.


That was sort of my gist.
 
2013-05-19 08:36:11 PM  

James F. Campbell: Whoops, I meant to say "Mormon." No idea how that happened.


haha. i lol'ed.
 
2013-05-19 08:37:56 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.


That was really an excellent speech with a great message.

Hopefully it gets a lot of positive coverage.
 
2013-05-19 08:38:17 PM  
Well, if anyone should learn from blaming everyone else for his mistakes, it should be him.  However, he hasn't so he's not much of a roll model is he now?

...that is all....
 
2013-05-19 08:40:53 PM  
Institutional grieving and generational trauma are sad things. However, like it or not, the only cure is for those affected to stand up and say that they aren't going to make the same mistakes their parents did. It's not easy and no one outside the group can help, but just because change, moving on, and growing is hard doesn't mean it's impossible. It is a conscious choice.

Is there still racism? Yes, but all of the policies in all of the workplaces and communities in all the world aren't enough to make the cultural grief and culturally sanctioned anger and destruction go away. This is something that must be undertaken at an individual level.

Or you could sit and whine and be angry at cultural conditions that you perpetuate.
 
2013-05-19 08:40:57 PM  

sendtodave: Infernalist: Because admitting that minorities still face steep obstacles to even moderate success means that they have to stop, look at their own success and wonder how much of it was 'really' difficult, and how much of it was made easier simply because they had the good luck to be born white.

You don't need to be born white to "easily" succeed.

You need to walk, talk, and have the same goals as a white guy, though.  I think it's foreign cultures that white people are scared of any more (and this includes "black" culture).

/I can even back that assertion up with anecdotes


Nah, you're right.  To a degree.  To some white people, it doesn't matter how a guy acts, it's what he looks like that matters.

But, in general, if you get a black man and he acts, talks, and reacts like the average white man, he gets comments like "you're so well spoken" and "you're not what I expected."

In short, the closer you are to white, color-wise, and the closer you act to the social norm of what is 'expected', the easier your time will be.
 
2013-05-19 08:41:06 PM  

sendtodave: grahamsletter: Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people.

Why is he playing to conservative white people?  They don't listen to him anyway.


And, everyone reading: disregard my first paragraph, too. I didn't really think this through...
 
2013-05-19 08:41:24 PM  

WaffleStomper: roll model is he


bunch it up, then lick it then roll carefully outside to inside, twirl the ends. done.

never never use cheap zigzags. ever.
 
2013-05-19 08:43:12 PM  

gadian: Institutional grieving and generational trauma are sad things. However, like it or not, the only cure is for those affected to stand up and say that they aren't going to make the same mistakes their parents did. It's not easy and no one outside the group can help, but just because change, moving on, and growing is hard doesn't mean it's impossible. It is a conscious choice.

Is there still racism? Yes, but all of the policies in all of the workplaces and communities in all the world aren't enough to make the cultural grief and culturally sanctioned anger and destruction go away. This is something that must be undertaken at an individual level.

Or you could sit and whine and be angry at cultural conditions that you perpetuate.


It's easy to judge, isn't it?
 
2013-05-19 08:43:33 PM  

Smackledorfer: Lionel Mandrake: Dancin_In_Anson: http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/williamns050813.php3

...so vote white Republican.  Nice.

Has DIA every made a non-thread-shiatting entry into a thread?


I think so but it was a case of "wrong alt"
 
2013-05-19 08:44:35 PM  

sendtodave: grahamsletter: Obama does this every year: goes to a room full of black people and scolds them for a media audience of conservative-leaning white people.

Why is he playing to conservative white people?  They don't listen to him anyway.


Oh please. Grahamsletter'spremise was flawed from the beginning. Obama wasn't "scolding" the graduates. His speech was like every other commencement speech in history: a pep talk. And if you've graduated college within the past 6 years or so, you'll probably need a morale boost entering this brutal job market. He just added a few words to fit this particular audience. Now if you graduated from Morehouse you probably have your head together enough to accept responsibility, but if Obama's message could be passed along to someone who needs it, then something good came from it.

If Conservatives want to believe he was giving black men what for they can. It wouldn't be the first time they were wrong about something. But you don't have to help them out by admonishing a perfectly well-meaning message.
 
2013-05-19 08:45:00 PM  
You're all missing the point. He's telling this to black men who are already in school to better their lives. This would hit harder if he were standing in the ghetto talking like this.
 
2013-05-19 08:45:27 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


This is pretty much spot on.

Though throw in all that; with a little dibble of social engineering, and a dabble of social welfare programs...and voila!  Also add the fact that the benefits of a positive male influence have been HEAVILY de-emphasized in Black culture; it's all just adds up to a complete mess.

The fact that I'm Black, 28, with a stable full-time job (that pays excellent benefits), a college education, a pilot's license, and no kids...Something like that really shouldn't be seen as an the exception to the rule.

/I'm a hit with the recently divorced women, however...
//I avoid recently divorced women like the goddamned black plague
 
2013-05-19 08:46:57 PM  

TheEdibleSnuggie: TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.

This is pretty much spot on.

Though throw in all that; with a little dibble of social engineering, and a dabble of social welfare programs...and voila!  Also add the fact that the benefits of a positive male influence have been HEAVILY de-emphasized in Black culture; it's all just adds up to a complete mess.

The fact that I'm Black, 28, with a stable full-time job (that pays excellent benefits), a college education, a pilot's license, and no kids...Something like that really shouldn't be seen as an the exception to the rule.

/I'm a hit with the recently divorced women, however...
//I avoid recently divorced women like the god ...


Avoiding recently divorced women is a universal truth.
 
2013-05-19 08:47:05 PM  

Gulper Eel: Dusk-You-n-Me: That clip was inspiring.

He's good at that. The actions the president legislature has taken after giving fine speeches are generally less than inspiring.


FTFY
 
2013-05-19 08:47:33 PM  

adamatari: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.


This is what creates white trash, too. I saw it a lot in high school--for the type of kids who went there, the norm was for the son to get in physical fights with their fathers when they hit their late teens, and for the daughter to be a slut. Both genders just believed they could go out and 'work really hard' and get a job without even a high school diploma. That sort of thing is culture, and culture is  hellishly difficult to work around.
 
2013-05-19 08:47:46 PM  

grahamsletter: Obama is not culturally Black, so he has no more credibility on this than any other random politician, but because he looks black, conservative leaners, both white and black, will eat it up every time.


Wait. Waitwaitwait.

The President of the United States/Seekrit Mooslem Fartbongoing Usurper only looks black.

But he's not culturally black.

In other words, he's ... acting white?

/kills self
 
2013-05-19 08:49:00 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: TuteTibiImperes: Here's a better article with actual coverage instead of just a video link:   Obama Morehouse Speech

I don't see anything controversial about his remarks.  He's correct that with an increasingly globalized economy there is always going to be someone out there who had it worse than you growing up, and who overcame it.  The message to stop making excuses and start making progress is a good one, and it also fits well with his urging to give back to your own communities to help raise them up.

That was really an excellent speech with a great message.

Hopefully it gets a lot of positive coverage.


I've read this about six or seven times.

And I can't see what the hell tpoc is getting at. I mean, there's got to me some snark there, there seriously has got to be something. I mean, goddamnit, it's TPOC! THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING

There was a Garfield comic years ago where Jon was explaining how there's cat hairs in everything, even his food, and he was demonstrating, but couldn't find it, and totally disassembled his meal to find it... last panel is Garfield going "Oh, whoops, forgot to put one in."

I FEEL THAT RIGHT NOW
 
2013-05-19 08:49:48 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Elvis Presleys Death Throne: Pre-Election:"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"
"I may be be a black man elected President in a white-dominated society, but I still identify with mainstream black culture, in particular a gangbanger possibly killed in self-defense"

Post-Election: Obama tells African-Americans that there's no more room for excuses for their own failings
"Hey, I'm black and I made it through Harvard and into the Presidency.  What's wrong with all you other black people?  What are you waiting for?"

I wonder whats up with that?  It's almost like he was exploiting black people to get elected.  He must have taken that one out of the "Chris Christie lowers US flag to half-staff over dead crackhead(W.Huston) to get black poll numbers up.)  Maybe thats the sweet nothings they were whispering to each other on the runway after Hurrican Sandy.

You wonder what's up with what?

What sort of problem do you see with a person saying those two things?

You seem to have "discovered" some sort of inconsistency or hypocrisy that I do not think is there.

Inconsitency listed above.
 
2013-05-19 08:49:50 PM  

Infernalist: In short, the closer you are to white, color-wise, and the closer you act to the social norm of what is 'expected', the easier your time will be.


*nods*

It's evident in the language.

We talk about "latino culture."  Or black culture.  Or Muslim culture (Muslim is a race, right)?

My best friend growing up was born in Peru, but came to the US pretty early.  He hung around with white kids mostly, went off to college, married a very nice upper-middle class white girl, got a good white-collar job.

He was no longer "latino."

His older brother, however, still had an accent, hung around with other immigrants, and didn't do as well.

The father, being FOTB, was heavily discriminated against.
 
2013-05-19 08:49:59 PM  

I_C_Weener: No time like the present to start. Just like my doc said about quitting smoking.


5 days tobacco free (that includes camel Snus).

Use nicorette, you can get a 75% off coupon online (price dropped from $50 to $12 for 100 pieces) they're a royal pain in the ass to open so you're gonna spend time getting those f*ckers out of their mass assembly lined sheets. (perforated sheets of 2x5, after you break one off you peel the paper back, that leaves foil which you need a knife to open)
 
2013-05-19 08:51:08 PM  

PsiChick: adamatari: Princess Ryans Knickers: gilgigamesh: At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

That begins and ends with the current generation. You don't see me blaming people for one ancestor being an indentured servant and another, centuries ago, being a slave do you? No, because it has jack all to do with today. People need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.

There are still MANY things going on today that keep the cycle going. Blacks are much, much more likely to be arrested and charged for drugs than whites (or asians), despite whites actually doing more drugs. Other things are small but have lasting effects far beyond what we would think - yo mamma doesn't read to you (maybe because she doesn't think it's important, maybe because she's working, maybe both), and you grow up that much further behind everyone else. You don't have books at home, so you never read books, so you end up never learning to "read good", so you never read to your kids. Heck, just talking to your kids when they are really little (as toddlers and such) has a lasting, large effect.

You can't blame kids for having their intellectual development stunted because their parents don't have a goddamn clue becaue THEIR parents didn't have a goddamn clue, or because nobody every had any money or time so the kids never got stupid simple things like books and storytime.

These things take a LOT of concentrated effort to fix, the type of effort America has never, ever invested in poor blacks (or poor anyone, for that matter). Affirmative action doesn't deal with the roots of the problem. Nor does school, because the problems start long before the kids go to school.

This is what creates white trash, too. I saw it a lot in high school--for the type of kids who went there, the norm was for the son to get in physical fights with their fathers when they hit their late teens, and for the daughter to be a slut. Both genders just believed they could go out and 'w ...


Especially when that culture preaches it, day in and day out.  "Work hard and you can be anything you want!"

Bullshiat you will.  Success is equal parts education and pure farking luck these days.

Even people with good degrees find it hard to find success these days.  So, the old cultural fairy tale of 'work hard and succeed' needs to die.  It takes a lot more learning than working hard and we have to start emphasizing that in our culture.

Stop fixating on pretty people in Hollywood and retards in the music industry.  Focus on the people that invent things.
 
2013-05-19 08:52:18 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: bigpeeler: gilgigamesh:

At the same time, you have to acknowledge how and why that cycle started.

Okay, I give up. How did that cycle start?

The years of slavery followed by legal segregation and discrimination didn't help.  Institutionalized discrimination and segregation has done a lot to create black populations in many areas that have a history of poverty, and with the poverty has come a de-emphasis on education, and a de-stigmatization of criminal activity within those communities.  Repeat that process over a few generations while marginalizing the population and you have a culture that has developed which celebrates behaviors that are harmful to society (drug use, gang membership, lack of parental responsibility, violence, etc).  As Kimothy mentions above it's become almost a badge of honor amongst those who grow up in that culture to perpetuate it - if someone tries to get out of it, they're ridiculed and targeted, the mob doesn't want to admit they could pull themselves up so they do anything they can to pull anyone who tries to escape back down.

Now, I have no clue how to actually fix it, and at the end of the day those who perpetuate it really just need to step back and change their views, but obviously speaking from outside that culture, it's a lot easier for me to say it than for those living in it to do it.


Yes. There was and is still institutional, subtle and even overt racism.
However reacting to that by de-emphazing education and destigmitizing criminal behavior seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Asians took a different approach and although we haven't had an Asian President many are doing well.

(Yes I know they were never slaves but they did face a lot of racism)
 
2013-05-19 08:52:58 PM  

jaylectricity: You're all missing the point. He's telling this to black men who are already in school to better their lives. This would hit harder if he were standing in the ghetto talking like this.


I don't think it would hit harder.  I think it would fall flat.

"You can go out there and succeed, regardless of your race, college educated people!"  "Yes we can!"

"You can go out there and succeed, regardless of your race, inner city poor people!"  "Fark you!"
 
2013-05-19 08:54:03 PM  
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color oftheir skin, but by the content of their character."

Has this come to pass?
 
2013-05-19 08:55:13 PM  

sendtodave: Infernalist: In short, the closer you are to white, color-wise, and the closer you act to the social norm of what is 'expected', the easier your time will be.

*nods*

It's evident in the language.

We talk about "latino culture."  Or black culture.  Or Muslim culture (Muslim is a race, right)?

My best friend growing up was born in Peru, but came to the US pretty early.  He hung around with white kids mostly, went off to college, married a very nice upper-middle class white girl, got a good white-collar job.

He was no longer "latino."

His older brother, however, still had an accent, hung around with other immigrants, and didn't do as well.

The father, being FOTB, was heavily discriminated against.


Society 'is' society and we're all expected to at least TRY to conform to what a 'successful' man looks and acts like.

Our society functions along the same lines as a high school.  You have the cool kids and then you have everyone else.  You have fashion trends, social trends, things that acceptable to say and do and acceptable places to go, and acceptable things to buy and use.

And everyone wants to be part of the cool kids who set the standards.  And god help you if you actively buck the system.
 
2013-05-19 08:55:56 PM  

PsiChick: white trash


Chiiiick ... the preferred nomenclature is 'attractive & successful Caucasian-American.'
 
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