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(BBC)   Due to the falling of a leaf at exactly the right moment, the BBC has commissioned an eighth season of Doctor Who   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 94
    More: Spiffy, Doctor Who  
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2699 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 May 2013 at 4:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-19 03:53:57 PM  
cdn-static.denofgeek.com

"Humph.....As if there was even the slightest doubt."
 
2013-05-19 03:57:35 PM  
Show needs new blood. I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.

Moffat
 
2013-05-19 04:10:36 PM  

MadSkillz: I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.


So many of the episodes feel like they were written in four half-hour acts, and then get squeezed into 50ish minutes. They feel sloppy, and lazy, and absent of any cleverness or invention.
 
2013-05-19 04:12:06 PM  
That said, I rather did like "The Name of the Doctor". It was well out there into fanwank territory, though. If you're not well steeped in lore, it was probably utterly incomprehensible (and it's still totally unclear how it relates to some of the prophecies that were built up, thus implying that they were bullshiat never meant to be satisfyingly resolved).
 
2013-05-19 04:14:40 PM  
So, we have Patrice Bergeron to thank?
 
2013-05-19 04:15:45 PM  

t3knomanser: MadSkillz: I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.

So many of the episodes feel like they were written in four half-hour acts, and then get squeezed into 50ish minutes. They feel sloppy, and lazy, and absent of any cleverness or invention.


If only. The official BBC feed's running time is now a little over 40 minutes, not including credits and preview of next week's episode. Probably do the the pernicious influence of BBC America.

Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.
 
2013-05-19 04:21:48 PM  

Tax Boy: Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.


Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed? Let's compare against a new campy favorite of mine: "Arrow". "Arrow" episodes are crammed with characters, each with a subplot. A million little pieces move forward with every episode, and reading a recap of an episode makes you ask, "Wait, this was  one episode?".

The show moves quickly, but it never feels  rushed. You never feel like they glossed over something important to fit the story into the running time. And even as the overarching plot is moved forward, each episode is self contained enough that it has its own coherent plot.

It's a campy, often  stupid show. It's hammy and cheesily written. So why does it work, when Doctor Who doesn't?
 
2013-05-19 04:30:28 PM  

t3knomanser: Tax Boy: Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.

Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed? Let's compare against a new campy favorite of mine: "Arrow". "Arrow" episodes are crammed with characters, each with a subplot. A million little pieces move forward with every episode, and reading a recap of an episode makes you ask, "Wait, this was  one episode?".

The show moves quickly, but it never feels  rushed. You never feel like they glossed over something important to fit the story into the running time. And even as the overarching plot is moved forward, each episode is self contained enough that it has its own coherent plot.

It's a campy, often  stupid show. It's hammy and cheesily written. So why does it work, when Doctor Who doesn't?


Not an Arrow fan, but that description also applies to Supernatural (which, even with a bad start this year, is still better than most other shows on TV).

NuWho doesn't feel rushed at all to me - going back and watching SerialWho feels painfully slow.
 
2013-05-19 04:33:28 PM  

clkeagle: NuWho doesn't feel rushed at all to me - going back and watching SerialWho feels painfully slow.


That's a bad comparison to make- oldWho  is painfully slow. Even the best serials would usually have one episode that was 75% padding. And then you get stuff like "The War Games", which suddenly discovers it needs to be six episodes longer, so they just loop around and have the main characters escape and get captured a few times.

But comparing NuWho to other modern television, it feels very rushed and sloppy. Key plot points are just passed right over, or held to the story by little more than "fridge logic". It's remained enjoyable, but I feel like it could be more clever than this.
 
2013-05-19 04:39:26 PM  

t3knomanser: Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed? Let's compare against a new campy favorite of mine: "Arrow". "Arrow" episodes are crammed with characters, each with a subplot. A million little pieces move forward with every episode, and reading a recap of an episode makes you ask, "Wait, this was one episode?".


Doctor Who has two problems: it usually has to set up a new reality (time, world, life forms, etc) each week, and each hour episode is only 45 minutes long (to make BBCA happy).

Compare it to Game of Thrones, which gets at least 55 minutes each episode (and which is free to run over) and which established most of its reality at the beginning of the first season, and you start to see why Doctor Who feels rushed and GoT can move at a majesterial pace in the course of an hour.
 
2013-05-19 04:52:08 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: t3knomanser: Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed? Let's compare against a new campy favorite of mine: "Arrow". "Arrow" episodes are crammed with characters, each with a subplot. A million little pieces move forward with every episode, and reading a recap of an episode makes you ask, "Wait, this was one episode?".

Doctor Who has two problems: it usually has to set up a new reality (time, world, life forms, etc) each week, and each hour episode is only 45 minutes long (to make BBCA happy).


You know, Star Trek pretty much had to do the same thing and no one ever called it "rushed."

Personally--and for perspective, I've only watched the first five seasons, have been doing it slowly on Netflix, and never had a chance to watch the old stuff--I quite enjoy the pace most of the time.  The show's frantic energy is half of what makes it enjoyable.  Some of the slower episodes have been the worst.
 
2013-05-19 05:10:43 PM  

Tax Boy: t3knomanser: MadSkillz: I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.

So many of the episodes feel like they were written in four half-hour acts, and then get squeezed into 50ish minutes. They feel sloppy, and lazy, and absent of any cleverness or invention.

If only. The official BBC feed's running time is now a little over 40 minutes, not including credits and preview of next week's episode. Probably do the the pernicious influence of BBC America.

Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.


Maybe if they went with a proper 22 episode American style "Season" rather than these half assed 6 to 12 episode long British style "Series" they would have more time.
 
2013-05-19 05:11:49 PM  
The old series stories might seem slow because they weren't really meant to be watched all in one sitting.
 
2013-05-19 05:12:31 PM  

LazarusLong42: You know, Star Trek pretty much had to do the same thing and no one ever called it "rushed."


There were episodes of both TOS and TNG which rushed their endings, and remember that Star Trek only had to do half the setup, as the Enterprise was a known quantity.
 
2013-05-19 05:16:02 PM  
Any word on how long we have to wait though?

Are we going to get some shiat like 50th special in November...Christmas.....and then the following September for season 8.

Can't we just get 7 in the spring, 7 in the fall EVERY YEAR!
 
2013-05-19 05:28:56 PM  
I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.
 
2013-05-19 05:31:58 PM  

t3knomanser: Let's compare against a new campy favorite of mine: "Arrow"


I have to agree with your "Arrow" love. I don't like the shoe-horned love interest, but I seriously like that the main character does many of his own stunts. Its a little thing, but its great to see "Oliver's" face when he is doing parkour, it helps me to continue to suspend my disbelief. I am also a long time fan of Supernatural.

My husband and I were discussing what we weren't feeling this half-season of Dr. Who. We began to recap our favourite NuWho eps and noticed most of them were 2 parts (The Dr. Dances, The Family of Blood, Library) and didn't center around the Doctor, but rather around a new world/creature/mystery (blink, Dr.'s wife). So much of the shrinking amount of time given to the show (down to around 43 mins excluding intro and  recaps) is given to the Doctor and his name or his mysterious companion so that it is hard to world-build a brand new concept in the remaining time. Both Supernatural and Arrow have an established world with established rules that they can simply build on with character development, plot forwarding, or new monster of the week and still have time for one of the gentlemen stars to do something bad ass.

I'll still watch all three TV shows though, it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm going to give up.
 
2013-05-19 05:31:58 PM  
The Maple Leafs finally did something good.

//Who knew Moffat was a Bruins fan?
 
2013-05-19 05:39:40 PM  

LrdPhoenix: rather than these half assed 6 to 12 episode long British style "Series" they would have more time.


12 episodes is a perfectly fine length for a series. The BBC can only do so much. Imagine taking the budget they have and stretching it across twice as many episodes- it'd be awful.

Toriko: and didn't center around the Doctor


I had the realization that this is the real problem lately.  Everything centers around the Doctor. Even before the "meaning" of Clara was revealed, her only  real value was that she had a mysterious relationship with the Doctor. The entire universe hinges on the Doctor, every day. The Doctor takes a dump, and it's got to be protected by his friends, because it contains the cells of the last living Time Lord and galactic wars would be fought just to get a sniff of it.
 
2013-05-19 05:40:31 PM  
Toriko:
Oh, and thanks.
 
2013-05-19 05:41:41 PM  

t3knomanser: That said, I rather did like "The Name of the Doctor". It was well out there into fanwank territory, though. If you're not well steeped in lore, it was probably utterly incomprehensible (and it's still totally unclear how it relates to some of the prophecies that were built up, thus implying that they were bullshiat never meant to be satisfyingly resolved).


Yes. While most of the shows since it came back to TV have been geared at new viewers, this one was definitely one for the old time fans.
 
2013-05-19 05:48:38 PM  

t3knomanser: Everything centers around the Doctor


I think Dr. Who works because it is like a short scifi story or novella each episode. I don't mind a few threads of a over-arching plot sprinkled in there but I hope they get back to the short story concept soon.

Oh, and you're welcome =)
 
2013-05-19 05:56:03 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.



GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
 
2013-05-19 05:56:22 PM  
Fantastic! Smith is my second favorite Doctor (after Tom Baker, but mostly probably just because that's who I grew up with) and this season has been great. Overall probably my favorite season of Doctor Who so far.

Haters gonna hate. We nerds can be real assholes about getting what we want sometimes.
 
2013-05-19 05:57:45 PM  

Toriko: I don't mind a few threads of a over-arching plot sprinkled in there but I hope they get back to the short story concept soon.


I'm fine with a nice backburner A/B plot style format, but the writing needs to be really tight. One of two things usually happens: the over-arching "B" plot is such a background that it ends up being a literal  deus ex machina like "Bad Wolf", or the "A" plot gets swamped underneath continuity.

They had a half season of "Movie Poster" stories, and they were largely shoddy and poorly conceived. I've forgotten most of them, really. The only one I recall actively is the one where they were in the different time-stream quarantine museum thing, and I liked that because Rory got some seriously awesome character moments. And who doesn't love Rory?

I think that, after the 50th, there needs to be a serious reformulation. We've had three seasons that all hinged on the Doctor's legend, the impacts he has on his companions, the fact that he's both very good and incredibly evil- let's resolve that on the 50th and get back to having adventures.
 
2013-05-19 05:58:39 PM  

t3knomanser: I had the realization that this is the real problem lately. Everything centers around the Doctor. Even before the "meaning" of Clara was revealed, her only real value was that she had a mysterious relationship with the Doctor. The entire universe hinges on the Doctor, every day. The Doctor takes a dump, and it's got to be protected by his friends, because it contains the cells of the last living Time Lord and galactic wars would be fought just to get a sniff of it.


Well, he is a madman with a box that always seems to be in the right place at the right time.

I actually wouldn't mind if they did what they did during the Tennant era (to give the prinicpals time to do otehr stuff) and did a couple episodes a year which weren't Doctor-centric.

You know, like "Blink".
 
2013-05-19 06:15:28 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I actually wouldn't mind if they did what they did during the Tennant era (to give the prinicpals time to do otehr stuff) and did a couple episodes a year which weren't Doctor-centric.


"The Crimson Horror" should have fallen into this category, but once again, the entire plot revolved around the Doctor- even when he wasn't in it.

The lifeblood of Doctor Who has been its endless variety, and it feels like it's been repeating itself.
 
2013-05-19 06:27:35 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I actually wouldn't mind if they did what they did during the Tennant era (to give the prinicpals time to do otehr stuff) and did a couple episodes a year which weren't Doctor-centric.

You know, like "Blink".


I think The Crimson Horror filled that niche this year. Though it was a bit more Doctor-centric at the end than previous Zeppo-sodes.

LrdPhoenix: Maybe if they went with a proper 22 episode American style "Season" rather than these half assed 6 to 12 episode long British style "Series" they would have more time.


I really hope you're being sarcastic. Out of the roughly hundred or so 22-episode television seasons sitting on my shelves right now, only one comes to mind as being a shining star -  Babylon 5's fourth season. Supernatural, Battlestar, and  Stargate Universe came close - but still had plenty of crappy filler stories.

Other than that, the 22-episode format is an abomination that needs to die. They always result in half-finished or overextended story ideas, no-budget "bottle episodes," and dry wells for writing and acting talent.

British-style 10-13 episode seasons are wonderful when done properly, and most cable/premium channels have wisely chosen to follow that format. They don't drag on story arcs or B-plots needlessly, and always leave you wanting more. I'll take the feeling of perpetually wanting another episode of Rome or The Shield any day over the facepalms from, for example, the current season of Bones.

Hell, if Firefly had produced 100 episodes in 5 years, the majority of fans would have been begging for its cancellation.
 
2013-05-19 06:29:22 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.


I would watch that.
 
2013-05-19 06:31:33 PM  

t3knomanser: Toriko: I don't mind a few threads of a over-arching plot sprinkled in there but I hope they get back to the short story concept soon.

I'm fine with a nice backburner A/B plot style format, but the writing needs to be really tight. One of two things usually happens: the over-arching "B" plot is such a background that it ends up being a literal  deus ex machina like "Bad Wolf", or the "A" plot gets swamped underneath continuity.

They had a half season of "Movie Poster" stories, and they were largely shoddy and poorly conceived. I've forgotten most of them, really. The only one I recall actively is the one where they were in the different time-stream quarantine museum thing, and I liked that because Rory got some seriously awesome character moments. And who doesn't love Rory?

I think that, after the 50th, there needs to be a serious reformulation. We've had three seasons that all hinged on the Doctor's legend, the impacts he has on his companions, the fact that he's both very good and incredibly evil- let's resolve that on the 50th and get back to having adventures.


The Girl Who Waited was season 6, the one before the movie poster theme. You know, the season that was panned for being too arc-heavy and too focused on the Amy and River.
 
2013-05-19 06:32:42 PM  
t3knomanser: "The Crimson Horror" should have fallen into this category, but once again, the entire plot revolved around the Doctor- even when he wasn't in it.

*shakes fist* Never stop mid-post to change your kid's diaper...

The lifeblood of Doctor Who has been its endless variety, and it feels like it's been repeating itself.

The show has been running for 50 years... plus all the novels, audio plays, comics, etc. that are probably off-limits story wise. That feeling seems inevitable to me. Strong and well-developed characters, with good chemistry among the actors, will keep a series alive after this much time.
 
2013-05-19 06:38:59 PM  

clkeagle: That feeling seems inevitable to me


I don't think it needs to be inevitable. The idea that all stories have already been told is 200-level English Lit major bullshiat. If you want to be a pedantic snot, you can claim that there is only one story: Characters exist, get into some sort of conflict, escalate that conflict until you resolve it with a climax, and as a result establish a new status quo.

There are an infinity of stories that can fit within that structure, and they're not  actuallythe same story. But worse than that, the repetition we're seeing here is repetition of the past few years. NuWho isn't really repeating oldWho, it's repeating NuWho. It keeps circling back to the same themes, the same ideas, they keep asking the same question: is the Doctor really a good guy? Is he a good guy who's done horrible things, or a horrible being who's done good things?

At a certain point, you just have to frigging  answer the damn question and move on.
 
2013-05-19 06:44:01 PM  

t3knomanser: It keeps circling back to the same themes, the same ideas, they keep asking the same question: is the Doctor really a good guy? Is he a good guy who's done horrible things, or a horrible being who's done good things?

At a certain point, you just have to frigging  answer the damn question and move on.


Perhaps this John Hurt story is going to do just that... and give the Doctor some internal closure on the matter.
 
2013-05-19 06:50:02 PM  
... because she is the Kwisatz Haderach most specialist girl in the Universe!
 
2013-05-19 07:09:55 PM  

clkeagle: t3knomanser: It keeps circling back to the same themes, the same ideas, they keep asking the same question: is the Doctor really a good guy? Is he a good guy who's done horrible things, or a horrible being who's done good things?

At a certain point, you just have to frigging  answer the damn question and move on.

Perhaps this John Hurt story is going to do just that... and give the Doctor some internal closure on the matter.


He's going to find out he's killed thousands with jelly baby induced diabetes.
 
2013-05-19 07:12:01 PM  
t3knomanser
Tax Boy:
Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.

Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed?


Lots of fast talking and running certainly doesn't help with that feeling; and with Matt Smith, the Doctor himself is rather hectic and ADHD.
 
2013-05-19 07:19:34 PM  

The Voice of Doom: t3knomanser
Tax Boy: Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.

Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed?

Lots of fast talking and running certainly doesn't help with that feeling; and with Matt Smith, the Doctor himself is rather hectic and ADHD.


rush rush rush pace pace twirl "OMG YES YOU LOVELY SEXY THING! I LOVE BISCUITS!" jump over a railing, adjust bow tie, twirl, make strange face, "GOODNESS AN EXPLODING SPACE THING LET'S POKE IT!" vroom vroom vroom motorcycle, make origami crane from napkin, post parcel to Barcelona, skip, jump, frown, giggle, "HEY EVERYONE LET'S RIDE BIKES ON A RADIOACTIVE MOON! I LIKE BUNNIES! DON'T DALEKS SMELL STRANGE LIKE OLD TURNIPS?"
 
2013-05-19 07:21:58 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.


The whole Victorian crew could easily sustain its own spinoff. Maybe throw in Captain Jack now and again.
 
2013-05-19 07:23:25 PM  

Tax Boy: t3knomanser: MadSkillz: I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.

So many of the episodes feel like they were written in four half-hour acts, and then get squeezed into 50ish minutes. They feel sloppy, and lazy, and absent of any cleverness or invention.

If only. The official BBC feed's running time is now a little over 40 minutes, not including credits and preview of next week's episode. Probably do the the pernicious influence of BBC America.

Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.


www.bbc.co.uk

42.
 
2013-05-19 07:28:37 PM  
FunkOut

rush rush rush pace pace twirl "OMG YES YOU LOVELY SEXY THING! I LOVE BISCUITS!" jump over a railing, adjust bow tie, twirl, make strange face, "GOODNESS AN EXPLODING SPACE THING LET'S POKE IT!" vroom vroom vroom motorcycle, make origami crane from napkin, post parcel to Barcelona, skip, jump, frown, giggle, "HEY EVERYONE LET'S RIDE BIKES ON A RADIOACTIVE MOON! I LIKE BUNNIES! DON'T DALEKS SMELL STRANGE LIKE OLD TURNIPS?"


Hey, watch it with the spoilers!

Or:
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-19 07:46:07 PM  
Why is it so hard for people to figure out that Clara is the Heart of the TARDIS? She is the constant companion and the only constant companion the Doctor has had is the TARDIS.
 
2013-05-19 08:01:47 PM  

fusillade762: The whole Victorian crew could easily sustain its own spinoff


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I would watch Victorian Lesbian Lizard Detective Agency
 
2013-05-19 08:16:30 PM  

Apos: Satanic_Hamster: I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD!


I advise a full battery of energy weapons, several lasar rifles, and a slingshot for the boy.
 
2013-05-19 08:23:35 PM  

FunkOut: The Voice of Doom: t3knomanser
Tax Boy: Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.

Here's what I don't understand: why does NuWho feel rushed?

Lots of fast talking and running certainly doesn't help with that feeling; and with Matt Smith, the Doctor himself is rather hectic and ADHD.

rush rush rush pace pace twirl "OMG YES YOU LOVELY SEXY THING! I LOVE BISCUITS!" jump over a railing, adjust bow tie, twirl, make strange face, "GOODNESS AN EXPLODING SPACE THING LET'S POKE IT!" vroom vroom vroom motorcycle, make origami crane from napkin, post parcel to Barcelona, skip, jump, frown, giggle, "HEY EVERYONE LET'S RIDE BIKES ON A RADIOACTIVE MOON! I LIKE BUNNIES! DON'T DALEKS SMELL STRANGE LIKE OLD TURNIPS?"


So you know about the spoilers for the next Doctor:

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-19 08:42:33 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Apos: Satanic_Hamster: I want a spinoff series; The Adventures of Commander Strax.


GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

I advise a full battery of energy weapons, several lasar rifles, and a slingshot for the boy.


And there will be a two hour web-special; Commander Strax vs. the Memory Worm
 
2013-05-19 08:45:46 PM  

fusillade762: Tax Boy: t3knomanser: MadSkillz: I like Matt smith and moffat but the stories have become incomprehensible, like when you attend a boring lecture half asleep and it doesn't make sense because there's stuff missing.

So many of the episodes feel like they were written in four half-hour acts, and then get squeezed into 50ish minutes. They feel sloppy, and lazy, and absent of any cleverness or invention.

If only. The official BBC feed's running time is now a little over 40 minutes, not including credits and preview of next week's episode. Probably do the the pernicious influence of BBC America.

Which is why the overly rushed and ADHD pace of NewWho seems even more rushed this season.

[www.bbc.co.uk image 512x288]

42.


Yes, it doesn't make much sense. but it's the first episode of NuWho i ever watched. If Fear Her had been on that week, i never woulda picked up this show.
 
2013-05-19 08:51:11 PM  
I wish more episodes were conceived as two-parters, both in tribute to the serial nature of the classic series and so that the show has enough time to establish a premise, develop it, give us some curveballs, and ultimately resolve the main conflict without feeling rushed.
 
2013-05-19 09:21:28 PM  

poot_rootbeer: I wish more episodes were conceived as two-parters, both in tribute to the serial nature of the classic series and so that the show has enough time to establish a premise, develop it, give us some curveballs, and ultimately resolve the main conflict without feeling rushed.


If I were to pick my favorite episodes of the last 4 years, nearly all of them are 2-parters. Maybe I'm wired that way, but maybe, just maybe, they're simply better.
 
2013-05-19 09:26:00 PM  
First and foremost would be to get back to a 20+ show season, this would solve a lot of the complaints about the shows being too rush. '

Along those lines would be to get back to the 3 or 4 part stores and not so much of the "wham bam thank-you ma'am" episodes, especially if Moffat is still at the helm, too many episodes that have good build up, but a poor finish because they run out of time

Next do away with the breakup of the season, play then all in a row for f*uk sakes.
 
2013-05-19 09:41:03 PM  
Remember how cheesy the special effects were in "Classic" Who? Wanna go back to that level?  Then sure, a 22-26 episode season will work for you...
 
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