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(CBS Atlanta)   1 In 5 US children may have a mental disorder. In other news, Total Fark membership may be expected to multiply   (atlanta.cbslocal.com) divider line 134
    More: Interesting, mental disorders  
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2718 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 May 2013 at 2:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-18 12:57:47 PM
At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-18 01:06:22 PM
I would say it's about 26-29% based on the polls I've seen.
 
2013-05-18 01:10:21 PM
As long as people can get money from the government for this diagnosis, the numbers will continue to go up.
 
2013-05-18 01:12:21 PM

radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?


FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.
 
2013-05-18 01:12:57 PM

dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's is not docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.


FTFM. FML.
 
2013-05-18 01:19:38 PM

dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.


Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.
 
2013-05-18 01:26:50 PM
Quick!

Give them drugs!

Give them drugs!

Uncle Pfizer is counting on you.
 
2013-05-18 02:03:59 PM
Psh, kids today.
 
2013-05-18 02:15:46 PM
terrible article. Just because diagnosis numbers are rising does not mean the incidence is rising.

And yeah, 20% of Americans (probably humanity as a whole) as some type of mental disorder -- depression, anxiety related issues, developmental problems (where autism, aspergers, dyslexia etc go), personality disorders, addiction issues.

The problem is the reluctance to admit that these problems exist in children -- like they magically appear once you turn 18.
 
2013-05-18 02:23:39 PM

radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.


You're making this too easy, so I will refrain.
 
2013-05-18 02:24:04 PM

yellowcat: terrible article. Just because diagnosis numbers are rising does not mean the incidence is rising.

And yeah, 20% of Americans (probably humanity as a whole) as some type of mental disorder -- depression, anxiety related issues, developmental problems (where autism, aspergers, dyslexia etc go), personality disorders, addiction issues.

The problem is the reluctance to admit that these problems exist in children -- like they magically appear once you turn 18.


Also, when it comes to mental disorders/problems... that requires a lot of work on part of the patient to admit it.  Compared to a disease like cancer or whatever, where its pretty damn clear if you have it or not.  And the nature of most mental disorders generally includes a reluctance to admit it.  Or seek help.  Or even talk about it.

How many people with depression are open about it?  Certainly not 100%.  How about addiction... hell, no where CLOSE to 100%.  One of the main symptoms of addiction is *specifically* not being willing to discuss/admit it.  Even to yourself.

So I always take these numbers with a grain of salt.  Actually, a big old *brick* of salt.
 
2013-05-18 02:37:35 PM
Just start allowing kids to bring peanut butter sandwiches to school again. The problem will solve itself in a couple of weeks.
 
2013-05-18 02:39:10 PM
FTA: "This is a deliberate effort by CDC to show mental health is a health issue. As with any health concern, the more attention we give to it, the better. It's parents becoming aware of the facts and talking to a health-care provider about how their child is learning, behaving and playing with other kids,"buying some drugs for their children.
 
2013-05-18 02:39:52 PM
Honestly I would have expected the study to find 1 out of every 5 kids don't have a mental disorder.
 
2013-05-18 02:43:53 PM

yellowcat: terrible article. Just because diagnosis numbers are rising does not mean the incidence is rising.

And yeah, 20% of Americans (probably humanity as a whole) as some type of mental disorder -- depression, anxiety related issues, developmental problems (where autism, aspergers, dyslexia etc go), personality disorders, addiction issues.

The problem is the reluctance to admit that these problems exist in children -- like they magically appear once you turn 18.


When I was in school administration I experienced the exact opposite. Sometimes it came from parents looking to shift blame to a diagnosis to explain away their shortcomings as caregivers, or looking to qualify a student for special education services so that he or she could have extra supports for test taking. Some parents would refuse to exit their students from special education services even after the student completed all of their goals.
 
2013-05-18 02:43:55 PM
These days the true and singular mental disorder that effects 1 in 5 childeren is their mentally defective parents.

never mind giving the kids meds. Its the parents that need pills
 
2013-05-18 02:44:41 PM

yellowcat: terrible article. Just because diagnosis numbers are rising does not mean the incidence is rising.

And yeah, 20% of Americans (probably humanity as a whole) as some type of mental disorder -- depression, anxiety related issues, developmental problems (where autism, aspergers, dyslexia etc go), personality disorders, addiction issues.

The problem is the reluctance to admit that these problems exist in children -- like they magically appear once you turn 18.


Damn you, bringing logic into a sensationalist article!
 
2013-05-18 02:44:49 PM
FTA: "...up to 20 percent of American children are suffering from mental disorders such as attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), anxiety, depression and autism."

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

Good farking luck kids.
 
2013-05-18 02:45:37 PM
Does the politics tab have its separate server box in the rack? It may need it.
 
2013-05-18 02:45:41 PM
Dude, have you looked at the "average" person? EVERYONE has a mental disorder
 
2013-05-18 02:47:21 PM

radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?


2.bp.blogspot.com
Do you read Sutter Cane?
 
2013-05-18 02:49:16 PM
5 in 1 US adults have multiple personality disorders.
 
2013-05-18 02:49:21 PM
I'm self-diagnosed too.
 
2013-05-18 02:49:50 PM
We're just going sane in a world gone mad!

/also, my brain is a little on the smooth side
 
2013-05-18 02:50:26 PM

jehovahs witness protection: You're making this too easy, so I will refrain.


Allow me to make it even easier for you in order to remove the temptation completely- that was an explicit admission that I've been treated by professionals for psychological issues, in this case depression.  I find no shame in this- even Hamlet had The Melancholy.  Now I realize that this is an uncomfortable amount of candor because we usually keep these issues to ourselves, but in the scope of the topic of over-prescribing dangerous, brain-changing chemicals and the adverse affects that these medications can have, I feel that it is important to be candid and forthcoming about my background.
 
2013-05-18 02:52:26 PM

BigLuca: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 480x348]
Do you read Sutter Cane?


That's it!  Third In The Mouth Of Madness reference I've seen in as many days.  I'm taking this as a sign to download and re-watch it.
 
2013-05-18 02:52:42 PM
I was suffering from depression and anxiety. then I stopped watching the news and everything cleared right up. ignorance is bliss
 
2013-05-18 02:53:10 PM

skinink: Honestly I would have expected the study to find 1 out of every 5 kids don't have a mental disorder.


I can here to say almost exactly the same thing.

I thought it would have been 4 out of 5 kids are nuts.
 
2013-05-18 02:54:44 PM
You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.
 
2013-05-18 02:57:31 PM
What's sanity, anyway? It's a one trick pony. All it gives you is logical thought. But when you're good and crazy, woo-hoo-hoo, the sky's the limit!
 
2013-05-18 02:58:50 PM

gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.


He's also a genius, right?
 
2013-05-18 03:00:21 PM
big pharma's profits depend on it.

/paid for by risperdalprozacisteenlithium HCl.
 
2013-05-18 03:00:53 PM
This reminds me of when Master Mold widens his scope and discovers that EVERYONE is a mutant.

It reminds me of that because I'm mentally ill.
 
2013-05-18 03:01:19 PM
Is this where I should rant and rave about omg they want to drug our children!


Or I could read the actual CDC article that states that 13-20% of U.S children experience mental illness sometime during a given year.  Add on to that they are using diagnosis numbers, of which general practitioners constitute a frightening large percentage of, and I struggle to find what the surprise is.  Can we just require psychiatrist/psychologist diagnosis as a requirement for a mental illness diagnosis, and not have general practitioners who know little of current psychology diagnose a kid because the parents think the kid has it?
 
2013-05-18 03:02:00 PM
There's mental disorders and there's mental disorders that would benefit from intervention.

I've always had this low grade depression, but it's not something that would be made better by drugs or money. It requires a distraction, goals and what not. The list of side effects from anti-depressants is enough to make me feel a little better.
 
2013-05-18 03:05:08 PM

WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?


Well, he's already sharing at a third-grade level, but that's unofficial.  It would be wrong to quantify performance in any way.
 
2013-05-18 03:06:05 PM
The difference between me and a madman is I am not mad. - Salvador Dali
 
2013-05-18 03:06:46 PM
The only mental disease most people over 18 have is "attentionwhoreitis".

/I was diagnosed as bi-polar... blah blah blah
 
2013-05-18 03:08:44 PM

WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?


Indigo.
 
2013-05-18 03:09:57 PM
I would attribute a lot of this to two things:

1) the average diet today is so sugar loaded/ processed and chemically treated that many people barely eat real food anymore. So along with messing up internal chemical balance we continue to get fatter.

2) It was mentioned in the article. The amount of money treating these diagnosis is astronomical to the point that it is higher than the GDP of some countries.

Fatter, imbalanced and relying on drugs, a dumber populace too and we wonder why the politicians and CEOs know they can get away with whatever they want. As long as they provide good theatre doing it.
 
2013-05-18 03:10:03 PM

gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.


Niiice.
 
2013-05-18 03:10:14 PM
Big pharma is very interested in increasing the number of people who fall under the various categories of mental illness, it allows doctors to push more pills.
 
2013-05-18 03:15:24 PM
I wonder how much this can be correlated to their parents losing their jobs, their houses being foreclosed on, and being forced to use food stamps.
 
2013-05-18 03:15:26 PM

p the boiler: I would attribute a lot of this to two things:

1) the average diet today is so sugar loaded/ processed and chemically treated that many people barely eat real food anymore. So along with messing up internal chemical balance we continue to get fatter.

2) It was mentioned in the article. The amount of money treating these diagnosis is astronomical to the point that it is higher than the GDP of some countries.

Fatter, imbalanced and relying on drugs, a dumber populace too and we wonder why the politicians and CEOs know they can get away with whatever they want. As long as they provide good theatre doing it.


Hey, check your aesthetic privilege.  My five-year-old son is 100 pounds overweight because his condition makes him cry until I feed him enough.  During his school recess, they even make him run around outside with the other children, even though they know he's receiving countless microaggressions because of his weight and would prefer to sit in a dark, cool place inside.  He doesn't CHOOSE to look the way he does and no one understands!
 
2013-05-18 03:15:36 PM
wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net
goodhealthbeginshere.com

Have a good day at school sweetie.
 
2013-05-18 03:17:17 PM
Does broadening of the definitions of these mental disorders really mean that there has been an increase?
 
2013-05-18 03:20:49 PM

gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.


Take him out  into the woods, hand him his XBox, tell him that there is an outlet in a tree just over the next hill, and drive away as fast as you can!  If he makes it home alive then all is good.  If not, well, all is still good.
 
2013-05-18 03:23:47 PM
Theeng:  Can we just require psychiatrist/psychologist diagnosis as a requirement for a mental illness diagnosis, and not have general practitioners who know little of current psychology diagnose a kid because the parents think the kid has it?

Yes. Its called Integrated Care and its mandated by the ACA.

DISCLAIMER:I am a LPC in the state of VA and I work crisis intervention which requires me to diagnose people for a living all day long.

Believe me, I have heard every complaint out there about over diagnosis and its a very real problem. Integrated care basically creates jobs for mental health professionals in GP offices specifically to field and diagnose mental health issues. The problem with the medical model is that doctors generally get 15 minutes with a patient and they are supposed to move on quickly. This teaches doctors to ignore mental health red flags because they are either not trained/don't have enough time to deal with it. Instead they just write up an outside referral and hope for the best. But of course most people with serious mental health issues won't seek out counseling because our society places such a large stigma on mental illness. No one wants to be seen getting out of their car at the counselors office. Integrated Care brings mental health worker into the GP offices so if a doctor picks up on some symptoms or other mental issues, they no longer have to give the patient an outside referral they can just send them down the hallway and it becomes like a one stop shop. This also cuts down on GP's giving out diagnoses that they know nothing about (because there is a HUGE difference between medical diagnoses and mental health diagnosis).
tl;dr: Integrated Care = GOOD

/End rant
 
2013-05-18 03:26:17 PM

Mock26: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

Take him out  into the woods, hand him his XBox, tell him that there is an outlet in a tree just over the next hill, and drive away as fast as you can!  If he makes it home alive then all is good.  If not, well, all is still good.


He has very acute allergies to bark, pollen, chlorophyll and dirt and he's orientation-declined.  You have no idea how hard it is to get the accommodations he needs.
 
2013-05-18 03:27:20 PM

dryknife: 5 in 1 US adults have multiple personality disorders.


When personality becomes a cult, we will be its leader.
 
2013-05-18 03:35:19 PM

BitwiseShift: dryknife: 5 in 1 US adults have multiple personality disorders.

When personality becomes a cult, we will be its leader.


I tell you one and one make three
 
2013-05-18 03:35:27 PM

gimmegimme: Mock26: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

Take him out  into the woods, hand him his XBox, tell him that there is an outlet in a tree just over the next hill, and drive away as fast as you can!  If he makes it home alive then all is good.  If not, well, all is still good.

He has very acute allergies to bark, pollen, chlorophyll and dirt and he's orientation-declined.  You have no idea how hard it is to get the accommodations he needs.


Then seal him up in an airtight plastic bag before setting him free in the woods.
 
2013-05-18 03:35:42 PM

radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.


Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can treat their issues the fastest, most cost effective way possible. It's a farked up system, but it's all we've got right now.
 
2013-05-18 03:36:57 PM

Fano: BitwiseShift: dryknife: 5 in 1 US adults have multiple personality disorders.

When personality becomes a cult, we will be its leader.

I tell you one and one make three



Fixed that for you.
 
2013-05-18 03:38:25 PM
What has hurt me the most as an adult with childhood diagnosed disorders has been the assumption that I would grow out of them. That turned to mis-diagnosis into adulthood. I went through a hell of a three years with a bi-polar diagnosis - I was a zombie and missed some great things around me. Once I met a halfway competent psychiatrist, he bothered to ask me about childhood disorders, and took me off of the bi-polar drugs and treated me for ADHD. I can honestly say that I am the happiest and most successful I have ever been.
 
2013-05-18 03:40:26 PM

downstairs: Also, when it comes to mental disorders/problems... that requires a lot of work on part of the patient to admit it. Compared to a disease like cancer or whatever, where its pretty damn clear if you have it or not.


When you can crack open a mentally ill person, and point to the crazy in the same way you can point at cancer, then the disease model of mental illness might be a useful way of thinking about the problem.

Till then, I think we might have to accept that mental illness is to some extent a social construction, and we might have gone overboard in labeling as "ill" things that used to be simply regarded as, "unfortunate," "odd," or "inconvenient."
 
2013-05-18 03:46:12 PM
Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.
 
2013-05-18 03:50:55 PM

Kali-Yuga: Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.


Actually, it was more like 47%.

axiomamnesia.com
 
2013-05-18 03:51:43 PM
Nearly 1 in 5 children people in the U.S. suffers from a mental disorder

FTFA
 
2013-05-18 03:54:11 PM

reklamfox: radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...


And that's to say nothing of folks like me who have no insurance and have to rely on the "free" clinic public mental health services.  I have no doubt that those poor folks are under even more pressure to get people medicated and out the door.
 
2013-05-18 03:56:04 PM

Fano: What's sanity, anyway? It's a one trick pony. All it gives you is logical thought. But when you're good and crazy, woo-hoo-hoo, the sky's the limit!


What is Sanity anyway?

The definition isThe ability to think and behave in a normal and rational manner; sound mental health.
Reasonable and rational behavior.


Ain't that just some subjective criteria
 
2013-05-18 03:59:27 PM

BigLuca: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 480x348]
Do you read Sutter Cane?


+1

First thing I thought of as well.....( FARKERs think alike)
 
2013-05-18 04:00:28 PM
If I had been born 25 years later than I was, I'm sure I would have been diagnosed with SOMETHING. Or at the very least, my theoretical mom in that time frame would have attempted to make it happen.

As it is, I'm just me, with certain preferences, certain dislikes. In other words, human.

Deal with it, androids.
 
2013-05-18 04:09:12 PM

reklamfox: Theeng:  Can we just require psychiatrist/psychologist diagnosis as a requirement for a mental illness diagnosis, and not have general practitioners who know little of current psychology diagnose a kid because the parents think the kid has it?

Yes. Its called Integrated Care and its mandated by the ACA.

DISCLAIMER:I am a LPC in the state of VA and I work crisis intervention which requires me to diagnose people for a living all day long.

Believe me, I have heard every complaint out there about over diagnosis and its a very real problem. Integrated care basically creates jobs for mental health professionals in GP offices specifically to field and diagnose mental health issues. The problem with the medical model is that doctors generally get 15 minutes with a patient and they are supposed to move on quickly. This teaches doctors to ignore mental health red flags because they are either not trained/don't have enough time to deal with it. Instead they just write up an outside referral and hope for the best. But of course most people with serious mental health issues won't seek out counseling because our society places such a large stigma on mental illness. No one wants to be seen getting out of their car at the counselors office. Integrated Care brings mental health worker into the GP offices so if a doctor picks up on some symptoms or other mental issues, they no longer have to give the patient an outside referral they can just send them down the hallway and it becomes like a one stop shop. This also cuts down on GP's giving out diagnoses that they know nothing about (because there is a HUGE difference between medical diagnoses and mental health diagnosis).
tl;dr: Integrated Care = GOOD

/End rant


This.

Family Physicians are good for chronic illnesses like uncomplicated high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and the occasional flu or fever. They're good if you need a suture or two in a pinch.

They have no, and let me repeat this,  NO GODDAMN PLACE diagnosing children with mental health disorders, and prescribing psychiatric medications to them, imho. Five minutes every month is NOT enough time to properly tune a medicine which farks with their brain chemistry, and many pediatric mental health diagnoses can be completely complex to perform. (I.e. ADHD vs. Bipolar disorder)

Quite frankly, I personally think that any child with a suspected mental health disorder should be required to be referred into a pediatric inpatient program for the first week, at least, they are on that medication, and monitored by licensed psychiatric health professionals with experience in pediatrics.

/diagnosed with ADHD at age 5.
//done so through a residential treatment program.
 
2013-05-18 04:12:04 PM
But I can't even spell ADD!
 
2013-05-18 04:15:01 PM

radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?


Pretty much, why do you think religious belief is such a socially acceptable mass delusion?
 
2013-05-18 04:16:23 PM
My mother in law keeps telling me my youngest needs medication because her youngest was a nightmare until he got Ritalin for his ADHD. My kid is autistic. The difference is lost on her. And she's a first grade teacher. Sleep well.

/I will be dead before anyone drugs my kids.
 
2013-05-18 04:21:41 PM
FTA :

A host of environmental factors, including chemical exposure and poverty, also can affect a child's mental health, she said.

Poverty is a condition unique to our times.
 
rka
2013-05-18 04:24:58 PM

gimmegimme: WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?

Well, he's already sharing at a third-grade level, but that's unofficial.  It would be wrong to quantify performance in any way.


Top Quality.
 
2013-05-18 04:28:51 PM
What about AD&D?
 
2013-05-18 04:30:54 PM

rka: gimmegimme: WhippingBoy: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

He's also a genius, right?

Well, he's already sharing at a third-grade level, but that's unofficial.  It would be wrong to quantify performance in any way.

Top Quality.


Thank you for saying so.  Not everyone is so nice.  He went to a birthday party last week.  I made it clear to the parents that he needed pizza with a gluten-free crust and non-dairy cheese that wouldn't aggravate his lactose intolerance and that he chooses not to eat any toppings that are green, red, yellow or brown on his pizza.  The mother rolled her eyes.  Can you believe it?
 
2013-05-18 04:31:35 PM
Nice, forcible mass public medication here we come! Toe the party line comrade, you don't want to be labeled "unstable"

Also obligatory reference to soma.
 
2013-05-18 04:39:56 PM

radarlove: jehovahs witness protection: You're making this too easy, so I will refrain.

Allow me to make it even easier for you in order to remove the temptation completely- that was an explicit admission that I've been treated by professionals for psychological issues, in this case depression.  I find no shame in this- even Hamlet had The Melancholy.  Now I realize that this is an uncomfortable amount of candor because we usually keep these issues to ourselves, but in the scope of the topic of over-prescribing dangerous, brain-changing chemicals and the adverse affects that these medications can have, I feel that it is important to be candid and forthcoming about my background.


For real, dude that replied to you obviously has no interest in reasoned debate.

I won't bother talking about my experiences with psychiatrists, but let's just say i usually argue them down politically before i even bother getting into any "issues" that i have, majority are worthless.

Waste of money imo, rather just tell society to fark off until people come around to the reality of the matter.
 
2013-05-18 04:52:13 PM

Kali-Yuga: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

Pretty much, why do you think religious belief is such a socially acceptable mass delusion?


A belief only becomes a delusion when one closes one's self off from all other possibilities and demands that their belief is the only possible answer.  This goes for all things, but for religion, doubly so.

knowless: I won't bother talking about my experiences with psychiatrists, but let's just say i usually argue them down politically before i even bother getting into any "issues" that i have, majority are worthless.


Hey man, if you can ever find one that actually wants to get down to brass tacks and actually discuss your issues, hold on to him or her.  They are few and far between.

I've actually asked a few during our first session if they have any background in the pharmaceutical industry and if they've ever received money, grants, or scholarships from any pharmaceutical companies.  It doesn't really go over well, but I don't think that's because they're in cahootz with Big Pharma.  I think it's more like they find it distasteful and tactless and a bit offensive that I would ask.  And they're probably right.
 
2013-05-18 04:53:10 PM
As others have pointed out, the reason is drugs. We diagnose mental disorders differently in the US, rather than implementing social structures in which our children can grow and flourish.

Here's an interesting article that compares US parenting styles to French parenting styles.
 
2013-05-18 05:07:21 PM
ADHD? A diagnosis that absolves 'crappy parenting' and 'lazy teachers'!
 
2013-05-18 05:10:08 PM
My apologies reklam, I didn't want to bag on anything you did, but GPs diagnosing mental illness is certainly a problem here in TN.  Thanks for talking about the Integrated Care though, I had forgotten about that, I'm used to being wrong though.

Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome.  Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?
 
2013-05-18 05:11:16 PM

gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.


8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D  (Alas, not from me.  I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub-Saharan African "Witch Children" humanitarian crisis).  Complex PTSD (a type of PTSD caused by repeated traumas over time, as opposed to One Big Trauma) is itself only fairly recently recognised, and primarily among both survivors of child abuse and neglect and walkaways from coercive religious groups (and there is a subset--multigenerational walkaways--for whom the two sets tend to overlap)--folks with it still tend to (even as adults) get misdiagnosed with generalised anxiety disorder, because the DSM (and more specifically, insurance coding) hasn't quite caught up with its recognition yet.

/full disclosure--some of the research I do and the researchers I work with focus on religiously motivated child abuse and neglect...the stuff in the "fundie homeschooling" thread the other day is the LIGHTER end of some of what goes on and tends to (sadly) get a get-out-of-jail-free card thanks to broad religious exemptions
//"Bible-based" coercive religious groups--like NARasites and "fundamental Baptist" Christian Reconstructionist coercive groups--have especially been given a pass, because nobody likes to think of "God-fearing" people as being in the same light as, say, the Moonies
///why yes, I AM in a longterm study of multigenerational walkaways, how did you guess? :D  (One researcher pretty much directly compared what I'd experienced in a NARasitised Assemblies of God church to reports from multigenerational walkaways from Scientology)
 
2013-05-18 05:17:21 PM

Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?


This.  Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on.  Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist.  Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks.  We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing.  Got a problem?  Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.
 
2013-05-18 05:19:11 PM

reklamfox: radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...


I'm very lucky. EAP covers 8 sessions, but after that there is no limit to the amount of individual and group counseling I receive. My company rocks.
 
2013-05-18 05:21:13 PM

Great Porn Dragon: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D  (Alas, not from me.  I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub-Saharan African "Wi ...


1) I absolutely love that you, "Great Porn Study," are some kind of sociological researcher or something.

2) The overdiagnosis of these kinds of problems hurt those people (young and old) who really do have problems.  Some folks don't understand why their two-year-old runs around and shouts all the time.  Why their fourteen-year-olds won't willingly sit down for eight hours of homework a day.  They mistake normal behavior for abnormal behavior.

3) I agree with you.  Religions force people to believe they are inherently broken.  The self/over-diagnosers are the same way.  If you tell an otherwise normal young person that he or she can't learn, they'll prove you right.
 
2013-05-18 05:21:47 PM
Has anyone mentioned about people having kids when they are older because they are too broke when they are young?

http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2013/grandfathers-parents-age s- influence-autism-risk

I see this as a disturbing trend.  Sure I think people should be financially secure when they have kids, but when are parents REALLY financially secure?
 
2013-05-18 05:26:50 PM

bratface: ADHD? A diagnosis that absolves 'crappy parenting' and 'lazy teachers'!


free speed. free. speed. speed for free. are we done?
 
2013-05-18 05:30:12 PM

radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This.  Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on.  Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist.  Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks.  We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing.  Got a problem?  Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.


My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?
 
2013-05-18 05:30:29 PM
Woohoo, job security!!

/mental health practitioner for the county
//pays really good incidentally
 
2013-05-18 05:34:14 PM

Bumblefark: radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This.  Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on.  Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist.  Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks.  We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing.  Got a problem?  Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?


In curing?  I have no idea.  I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense.  But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running.  With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.
 
2013-05-18 05:36:52 PM

gimmegimme: Great Porn Dragon: gimmegimme: You heartless people DON'T UNDERSTAND.  My five-year-old has ADHD.  Do you know what it's like to try and keep him from acting out when we go to a midnight movie?  His Kindergarten teacher says he should know his ABCs by now, but it's just too hard for him because he'd rather play with his XBox.  His life coach has tried to tell the school administration that he's not really a school-focused learner, but they threatened to take him from me if I don't make him go to a place he doesn't want to.  I can only hope that people come around and understand that my child is extremely special and should be appreciated for his uniqueness.

8/10--I'm sure you'll at least get some bites out of this :D  (Alas, not from me.  I know this is one of the more common scenarios in which unschooling happens.)

That said--as people have noted, a lot of this is due to diagnosis changes (in particular, generalised anxiety and depression now being formally recognised in pre-adolescent kids, and a general expansion of what constitutes an ASD per the DSM-V).

There is a part of me which wonders how many of these kids are misdiagnosed--not just the case of an Active Boy diagnosed with ADHD because he doesn't get to run around and explore and play thanks to helicopter parents, but stuff like (for example) complex PTSD resulting from childhood abuse being misdiagnosed as an ASD or depression or generalised anxiety disorder.

Unfortunately--especially in dominionist households using religiously motivated child abuse a la the Pearls or Gothard cult--childhood PTSD and complex PTSD are surprisingly common; this applies doubly to kids who have the misfortune to be LGBT or otherwise genderqueer in dominionist households (in fact, there actually is a pretty major homelessness crisis among gay teens pretty much directly caused by kids having to either escape for their lives or being thrown out of their houses for being gay...essentially it's the American version of the sub- ...


Until this post, I would have sworn you were channeling my neighbor.  Well, mainly because of how I acted at the pizza joint with her and spawn last year.  All the other boys are running around like tweaking otters, and hers is lounging around like a porn manatee.
 
2013-05-18 05:54:30 PM
Yeah not farking likely
 
2013-05-18 05:58:25 PM
The solution to the problem would be to lower Earth's population to about 100,000. Then we could have nice things.
 
2013-05-18 06:00:28 PM

radarlove: Bumblefark: radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This.  Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on.  Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist.  Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks.  We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing.  Got a problem?  Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?

In curing?  I have no idea.  I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense.  But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running.  With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.


Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.
 
2013-05-18 06:25:47 PM

Bumblefark: Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute


Oy vey, if only I could find one that was all three!
 
2013-05-18 06:31:41 PM
Lucky little bastards. Nobody was fighting to give me tons of free drugs when I was a kid.

cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com
 
2013-05-18 06:35:30 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: These days the true and singular mental disorder that effects 1 in 5 childeren is their mentally defective parents.

never mind giving the kids meds. Its the parents that need pills


I have a four year old brainiac child with full blown non-verbal autism.  I need all the farking pills I can get.  Got a dealer?  No really.

/I probably meet the current definition of autistic myself
//Nice handle btw
 
2013-05-18 06:36:01 PM
People who don't recognize the need for drugging children need to be drugged.
 
2013-05-18 06:37:55 PM

Bumblefark: radarlove: Bumblefark: radarlove: Theeng: Also, can we slap all the assholes who talk as if mental illness is something that you just need willpower/ subscribe to their special diet or way of life to overcome. Doubly so if they self diagnose themselves with a socially acceptable amount of mental problems then talk about how they've overcome it?

This.  Life is full of incredibly complex issues that most folks don't have the time to study up on.  Sometimes you need a hand with an issue, and you go see a specialist.  Ain't no more shame in seeing a person who has devoted their life to helping people work out emotional or mental issues than there is in seeing a person who has devoted their life to understanding cars when your carburetor breaks.  We can't all be specialists in everything- that's why we're still doing this whole society thing.  Got a problem?  Talk to someone who knows more about it than you do.

My carburetor guy gets my business because, when I have a broken carburetor, he fixes it.

What is the success rate in curing psychopathologies?

In curing?  I have no idea.  I'm not even sure a psychopathology is something that can be cured, in the traditional sense.  But a good mental health professional can certainly help a person cope with some of the things going on in their head and in their life, and that keeps the motor running.  With a machine this complex, I'd call that a success.

Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially wh ...


The simple fact of the matter is, the brain is so immensely complex and delicate that what you want is basically impossible at this point in time.  The reason treatment is open-ended is that for the most part no mental illness can be traced to one simple thing, there is no virus, no tumor to target.  Instead mental health providers are left with a myriad of possiblities from chemical imbalances, genetic defects, environmental causes, etc. to identify and treat, and oh by the way the patient may at any time just decide to stop taking medication/stop showing up to counseling sessions. It is for all intents and purposes trying to hit a target 500 feet away in a opaque cloud as opposed to a target 50 feet away in broad daylight.

Skeptical is fine when you do it from an informed perspective, but you seem to base your skepticism on ignorance, which is never a good thing.
 
2013-05-18 06:42:47 PM

gimmegimme: Kali-Yuga: Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.

Actually, it was more like 47%.

[axiomamnesia.com image 801x738]


That is oversimplifying things quite a bit. For instance, it doesn't account for brain-damaged scum of the Earth who talk politics in threads that aren't about politics.
 
2013-05-18 06:46:58 PM

p the boiler: I would attribute a lot of this to two things:

1) the average diet today is so sugar loaded/ processed and chemically treated that many people barely eat real food anymore. So along with messing up internal chemical balance we continue to get fatter.


This.  Researchers keep trying to say that in clinical studies, sugar doesn't affect behavior.  Show me a kid who hasn't had sugar --ever-- participating in these studies.  Also, a recent study found that there is a susceptible population of kids who react adversely to artificial colors.  Another recent study found that a generic kids multivitamin improved behavior in autistic kids.  When it comes to diet... Garbage In == Garbage Out.
 
2013-05-18 06:47:04 PM

Bumblefark: Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.


Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.
 
2013-05-18 06:48:40 PM

PsiChick: Bumblefark: Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.

Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.


If you think he is wrong, then he is probably on the right track.
 
2013-05-18 06:51:12 PM

reklamfox: radarlove: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

Well put, and I think that it really gets at the crux of the problem- we've become a society that takes the easy way out.  Instead of sitting down with people and helping them work out their problems and find a path that works for their unique mindset, we pump them full of chemicals.

I don't deny that there are a few severe disorders out there that genuinely require the use of serious, mind-altering medications.  Those disorders, though, are few and far between, and we throw pills at people at the first signs of trouble.  I have been subject to this myself on multiple occasions.

Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult. Most people don't know this, but its actually a requirement for billing purposes that we assign a diagnosis to all our clients. Every single person that walks into my office leaves with some type of V-code attached to their file, or else I can't get paid for it. All because that's how health insurance companies gauge progress of the treatment, if we tack a name on whatever it is you're suffering from, then we can get paid to treat you. This takes the focus away from the person and places it squarely on the diagnosis and how I can ...


I'm curious, is there a simple code for grief or generic work stress?  Sometimes people need to talk but it ain't systemic issue.
 
2013-05-18 06:57:06 PM
Even the CDC is running false flag operations!
 
2013-05-18 07:06:50 PM
Kids are supposed to be cattle now?
 
2013-05-18 07:19:38 PM

ZombieApocalypseKitten: I'm curious, is there a simple code for grief or generic work stress? Sometimes people need to talk but it ain't systemic issue.


Well it obviously varies from case to case, but the generic "go to" V-code would probably be V71.09 No Diagnosis Given on Axis I & II, then I would list Psychosocial Stressors on Axis IV (i.e. Issues at Work, Relationship Issues, Recent Loss) and we would spend our time exploring these issues further rather then concentrating on an Axis I or II disorder.

The V71.09 code is only given when there is literally no other diagnosis that fits, and it's something that can be explained by either a preexisting medical disorder (Axis III) or Psychosocial Stressors (Axis IV). The DSM-5 could possibly include a new grief related category of diagnosis for prolonged grief issues, but this is pretty questionable. After all, who decides what is and isn't appropriate grieving behavior? The DSM-IV-TR included some cultural considerations surrounding appropriate coping and grief strategies, which further complicate the issue.
 
2013-05-18 07:32:21 PM

reklamfox: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I'm curious, is there a simple code for grief or generic work stress? Sometimes people need to talk but it ain't systemic issue.

Well it obviously varies from case to case, but the generic "go to" V-code would probably be V71.09 No Diagnosis Given on Axis I & II, then I would list Psychosocial Stressors on Axis IV (i.e. Issues at Work, Relationship Issues, Recent Loss) and we would spend our time exploring these issues further rather then concentrating on an Axis I or II disorder.

The V71.09 code is only given when there is literally no other diagnosis that fits, and it's something that can be explained by either a preexisting medical disorder (Axis III) or Psychosocial Stressors (Axis IV). The DSM-5 could possibly include a new grief related category of diagnosis for prolonged grief issues, but this is pretty questionable. After all, who decides what is and isn't appropriate grieving behavior? The DSM-IV-TR included some cultural considerations surrounding appropriate coping and grief strategies, which further complicate the issue.


I'm curious about that highlighted above.  I realize this is to the practitioner's judgment, but if a person were diagnosed with depression in there teens, would that override grief at the loss of a loved one?  If so, that is truly scary.  How do they even tell?
 
2013-05-18 07:36:57 PM

dj_bigbird: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's is not docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

FTFM. FML.


Also - not everyone is going to be world leader in rocket surgery or the star quarterback in the NFL. Maybe your kid just isn't that bright or athletic and you should accept them for that rather than find an excuse for why your kid isn't valedictorian.

/"you" = general you, not you personally dj_bigbird
 
2013-05-18 07:37:47 PM
Today: 1 out of 5 have a mental disorder.
Tomorrow: 5 out of 5 have a mental disorder.
Day after tomorrow: Take the guns away from everybody with a mental disorder.
 
2013-05-18 07:39:17 PM

Target Builder: dj_bigbird: dj_bigbird: radarlove: At what point does a disorder become an order order become a disorder?  When 51% of us are nuts, is nuts the new norm?

FTFY. Pretty much anything that it's is not docile submission to teachers, parents, law enforcement, etc. is a disorder that can only be dealt with by drugging.

FTFM. FML.

Also - not everyone is going to be world leader in rocket surgery or the star quarterback in the NFL. Maybe your kid just isn't that bright or athletic and you should accept them for that rather than find an excuse for why your kid isn't valedictorian.

/"you" = general you, not you personally dj_bigbird


Absolutely.  Kids need to learn to be happy doing what they are good at, not at what is going to make them the most amount of money or gain them the most prestige.
 
2013-05-18 07:48:59 PM

platkat: As others have pointed out, the reason is drugs. We diagnose mental disorders differently in the US, rather than implementing social structures in which our children can grow and flourish.

Here's an interesting article that compares US parenting styles to French parenting styles.


the French are among the most pessimistic people in the world. they are among the last I would look to for parenting advice.

they also put kids with autism in psychiatric hospitals, completely walling them off from society.
 
2013-05-18 08:23:23 PM
Only 1 in 5? Im thinking 51% of the population easy.
 
2013-05-18 08:31:51 PM

ZombieApocalypseKitten: reklamfox: ZombieApocalypseKitten: I'm curious, is there a simple code for grief or generic work stress? Sometimes people need to talk but it ain't systemic issue.

Well it obviously varies from case to case, but the generic "go to" V-code would probably be V71.09 No Diagnosis Given on Axis I & II, then I would list Psychosocial Stressors on Axis IV (i.e. Issues at Work, Relationship Issues, Recent Loss) and we would spend our time exploring these issues further rather then concentrating on an Axis I or II disorder.

The V71.09 code is only given when there is literally no other diagnosis that fits, and it's something that can be explained by either a preexisting medical disorder (Axis III) or Psychosocial Stressors (Axis IV). The DSM-5 could possibly include a new grief related category of diagnosis for prolonged grief issues, but this is pretty questionable. After all, who decides what is and isn't appropriate grieving behavior? The DSM-IV-TR included some cultural considerations surrounding appropriate coping and grief strategies, which further complicate the issue.

I'm curious about that highlighted above.  I realize this is to the practitioner's judgment, but if a person were diagnosed with depression in there teens, would that override grief at the loss of a loved one?  If so, that is truly scary.  How do they even tell?


Well all prior diagnoses are taken into consideration during the intake interview, but they don't necessarily "override" each other. I would make a note of it in my file as "Prior Axis 1 Diagnosis for Depression" but if someone comes to me experiencing issues surrounding profound grief and they have a prior history of depression, as long as they aren't currently psychotic (or suffering from other interfering symptoms) I wouldn't concentrate on actively treating the depression I would work on helping the person process their current feelings. Any respectable counselor would not seek to fit symptoms of grief into the past depression diagnosis because they are simply two separate experiences, but they can affect each other if left untreated. In this instance, I would focus more on coping skills, emphasize strong social supports (this is a biggie for fighting depression) and discuss feelings surrounding the loss. I would urge the person to talk about their history of depression and offer help for dealing with it in the future, but I don't label people just because of their past.

Unlike actual practitioners, I am a counselor, so I concentrate more on the people and not on their disorders (this is not to bad-mouth MD's, I have nothing but respect for doctors) but they tend to treat their patients based on their medical diagnosis while I treat people based on their current symptoms. Crisis work demands it. If you're experiencing issues with grief or know someone who is struggling, I would suggest looking for a local counselor with experience in the specialty field of Grief and Loss, they will be able to separate current issues from past diagnosis no problem.
 
2013-05-18 08:42:57 PM

Theeng: The simple fact of the matter is, the brain is so immensely complex and delicate that what you want is basically impossible at this point in time. The reason treatment is open-ended is that for the most part no mental illness can be traced to one simple thing, there is no virus, no tumor to target. Instead mental health providers are left with a myriad of possiblities from chemical imbalances, genetic defects, environmental causes, etc. to identify and treat, and oh by the way the patient may at any time just decide to stop taking medication/stop showing up to counseling sessions. It is for all intents and purposes trying to hit a target 500 feet away in a opaque cloud as opposed to a target 50 feet away in broad daylight.

Skeptical is fine when you do it from an informed perspective, but you seem to base your skepticism on ignorance, which is never a good thing.


I have graduate-level training in clinical psychology, and I worked as a mental health counselor dealing with dual-diagnosed, chronically ill wards of the state for 2 years.

Think I earned my skepticism, thanks.
 
2013-05-18 08:57:38 PM

PsiChick: Bumblefark: Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.

Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.


Well, I think that's the key -- humility. There are plenty of fine clinicians out there that I have met. But the one thing they seemed to have in common was a healthy skepticism toward their own science. Most of those people would be the first ones to roll their eyes at the comical hubris of the DSM, understood just how sticky and dysfunctional psychiatric labels can become, and were willing to give thinkers like Szasz his due.

Above all, they would cringe at our growing tendency in society to place problems under the domain of "mental illness," when they simply don't belong there, merely for the sake of expedience.
 
2013-05-18 08:59:37 PM

Bumblefark: Theeng: The simple fact of the matter is, the brain is so immensely complex and delicate that what you want is basically impossible at this point in time. The reason treatment is open-ended is that for the most part no mental illness can be traced to one simple thing, there is no virus, no tumor to target. Instead mental health providers are left with a myriad of possiblities from chemical imbalances, genetic defects, environmental causes, etc. to identify and treat, and oh by the way the patient may at any time just decide to stop taking medication/stop showing up to counseling sessions. It is for all intents and purposes trying to hit a target 500 feet away in a opaque cloud as opposed to a target 50 feet away in broad daylight.

Skeptical is fine when you do it from an informed perspective, but you seem to base your skepticism on ignorance, which is never a good thing.

I have graduate-level training in clinical psychology, and I worked as a mental health counselor dealing with dual-diagnosed, chronically ill wards of the state for 2 years.

Think I earned my skepticism, thanks.


Same here, except it was a home for the mentally disturbed and a year and a half, with a bachelors in psych and summer work in a psych lab for 3 summers.

Wtf is "graduate-level" training, you took a couple of 500-level classes and didn't finish your masters?
 
2013-05-18 09:06:59 PM
Disappointed the headline doesn't say "that's like a quarter!"


/no offence to Subby.
 
2013-05-18 09:23:50 PM

Theeng: Same here, except it was a home for the mentally disturbed and a year and a half, with a bachelors in psych and summer work in a psych lab for 3 summers.


Good to know. Notice how I didn't assume that you were speaking out of ignorance just because we had a difference of opinion.

Wtf is "graduate-level" training, you took a couple of 500-level classes and didn't finish your masters?

My masters was in another field. I took the psychopathology and diagnostic coursework, the methods/stats offerings, a smattering of the topics in counseling, and the practicum. Did more coursework in that field than my own, actually.
 
2013-05-18 09:29:46 PM

dumbobruni: platkat: As others have pointed out, the reason is drugs. We diagnose mental disorders differently in the US, rather than implementing social structures in which our children can grow and flourish.

Here's an interesting article that compares US parenting styles to French parenting styles.

the French are among the most pessimistic people in the world. they are among the last I would look to for parenting advice.

they also put kids with autism in psychiatric hospitals, completely walling them off from society.


Also their men tend to cling to the apron strings far into adulthood.
 
2013-05-18 09:30:06 PM

Bumblefark: Theeng: Same here, except it was a home for the mentally disturbed and a year and a half, with a bachelors in psych and summer work in a psych lab for 3 summers.

Good to know. Notice how I didn't assume that you were speaking out of ignorance just because we had a difference of opinion.

Wtf is "graduate-level" training, you took a couple of 500-level classes and didn't finish your masters?

My masters was in another field. I took the psychopathology and diagnostic coursework, the methods/stats offerings, a smattering of the topics in counseling, and the practicum. Did more coursework in that field than my own, actually.


Should probably mention one of my undergrad degrees is in psych, too, just to go ahead and head off the "yeah, but you probably didn't understand what you were studying" argument, before it comes up...
 
2013-05-18 10:16:00 PM

namegoeshere: dumbobruni: platkat: As others have pointed out, the reason is drugs. We diagnose mental disorders differently in the US, rather than implementing social structures in which our children can grow and flourish.

Here's an interesting article that compares US parenting styles to French parenting styles.

the French are among the most pessimistic people in the world. they are among the last I would look to for parenting advice.

they also put kids with autism in psychiatric hospitals, completely walling them off from society.

Also their men tend to cling to the apron strings far into adulthood.


Eh...American men probably aren't the best counterargument to French parenting. They don't cling to the apron strings, it's true. They just get married, and re-establish the mommy dynamic with their wives...
 
2013-05-18 10:53:53 PM

reklamfox: Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult.


This explains why, for the past two weeks, after going back to therapy, I keep hearing "what do you want?
 and "I don't know how to help you".  My diagnosis is acute panic and generalized anxiety, though they're medicated fine, but also borderline personality disorder. Nobody can write down BPD because it will get me blacklisted by my insurance, since you can't medicate it away.  I'm not a danger to anyone, or myself, I just feel... off. In a hard to explain way. I don't need medicine. I just need someone to talk to, I guess. To even figure out why I feel off and decided I needed to talk to someone. And yet, deep down, I know I am going to get shuffled out the door because I am not slicing my arms open or unable to go to work in the morning because I am too scared to (me of the past in both cases.)  I either have to get better, or get to those awful points before anyone will help me head it off at the pass. Thank you, insurance that I pay a ton of money for.
 
2013-05-18 11:13:10 PM

Bumblefark: PsiChick: Bumblefark: Fair response. I certainly don't begrudge people seeking out help with their problems, however they see fit. Whether it's a psychiatrist, a priest, or a prostitute -- more power to them.

I'm just skeptical of a quasi-medical profession that tells people that the cause of their mental anguish is an underlying "disease" or "disorder" of their mind -- one that can never be cured (or even verified apart from the supposed "symptoms" that give rise to the diagnosis) but can instead only be "managed"...usually through an open-ended regimen of drugs or psychotherapy. (Especially when the efficacy of those treatments is very often ambiguous, at best.)

I mean...on it's face, that kind of looks like a racket, to me.

Part of the reason it looks so 'sketchy' to you is because we know about as much about the human brain as we know about black holes. It ain't a hell of a lot. It's like trying to cure the common cold when you still think leeches are a great idea. There's only so much you can do.

/Take a psych class, I think you'd learn a lot from it. And it's pretty fun if you get a good teacher.

Well, I think that's the key -- humility. There are plenty of fine clinicians out there that I have met. But the one thing they seemed to have in common was a healthy skepticism toward their own science. Most of those people would be the first ones to roll their eyes at the comical hubris of the DSM, understood just how sticky and dysfunctional psychiatric labels can become, and were willing to give thinkers like Szasz his due.

Above all, they would cringe at our growing tendency in society to place problems under the domain of "mental illness," when they simply don't belong there, merely for the sake of expedience.


Most of those problems actually  do belong there. I have low-level Asperger's and bipolar; they both heavily impact my life, and I had to learn to control them, but I'm on the low end of both spectrums. You'd be amazed how bad even low-level mental illness can get.
 
2013-05-18 11:51:25 PM

serpent_sky: reklamfox: Yep. As an LPC, most of the clients I see would benefit immensely from just talking to someone who can help them, but I'm telling you its the damn insurance companies that control the mental health industry. It's all about cost controls, and it's waaaaay to expensive to pay for time consuming therapy sessions when you can just write a prescription for some meds and kick them out the door. The generous health insurance policies cover just 5 (maybe 8) counseling sessions, then they expect a prescription to be written. This makes doing my job extremely difficult.

This explains why, for the past two weeks, after going back to therapy, I keep hearing "what do you want?
 and "I don't know how to help you".  My diagnosis is acute panic and generalized anxiety, though they're medicated fine, but also borderline personality disorder. Nobody can write down BPD because it will get me blacklisted by my insurance, since you can't medicate it away.  I'm not a danger to anyone, or myself, I just feel... off. In a hard to explain way. I don't need medicine. I just need someone to talk to, I guess. To even figure out why I feel off and decided I needed to talk to someone. And yet, deep down, I know I am going to get shuffled out the door because I am not slicing my arms open or unable to go to work in the morning because I am too scared to (me of the past in both cases.)  I either have to get better, or get to those awful points before anyone will help me head it off at the pass. Thank you, insurance that I pay a ton of money for.


I feel your pain friend. If you have the financial means to do so, I would recommend calling around to private practice counseling clinics and ask about their cash only sliding scale payment options for the uninsured. When working with a govt agency there is a huge pressure to only see the people who are in the worst shape, so that leaves the people who just want to talk out of luck. I see many clients like yourself who are worried about permenant labels and insurance, so if you go into a private practice office and offer to pay cash they will totally work with you at a reduced rate. Believe me, it makes billing much easier and you can go in for as many sessions as you please, counselors LOVE clients who pay cash. I wish you luck, and don't give up! Not all us LPCs pigeonhole our clients and I would never DREAM of telling someone, "I cant help you." Hang in there
 
2013-05-18 11:55:12 PM
 
2013-05-19 12:43:51 AM

reklamfox: I feel your pain friend. If you have the financial means to do so, I would recommend calling around to private practice counseling clinics and ask about their cash only sliding scale payment options for the uninsured. When working with a govt agency there is a huge pressure to only see the people who are in the worst shape, so that leaves the people who just want to talk out of luck. I see many clients like yourself who are worried about permenant labels and insurance, so if you go into a private practice office and offer to pay cash they will totally work with you at a reduced rate. Believe me, it makes billing much easier and you can go in for as many sessions as you please, counselors LOVE clients who pay cash. I wish you luck, and don't give up! Not all us LPCs pigeonhole our clients and I would never DREAM of telling someone, "I cant help you." Hang in there


I really don't have the means, unfortunately.  I've been in horrible shape, I've been pushed out before I was entirely ready, regressed, gone back, cycled out, and I see the early stages now (by age 38, you can tell when you're "off".  I just can't put it in words beyond, "I'm off."  Things like "I am obsessing a singer" or "I absolutely MUST eat the same foods every day" or "I will lose it if someone touches my car and be upset all day as a result" aren't enough. To me, they're warning signs that I am going to go apeshiat as I go.  But it's documented that nobody else is in danger, since "apeshiat" means i may yell at someone like an asshole, but I'll go home and punch myself in the head. Or drink half a bottle of vodka and decorate my bathroom with magazine clippings before I pass out. Or if it's really bad, cut my own arm, but not deep enough to be suicidal, so ya know, not a huge deal.  Just completely farking insane behavior that I recognize as such, but can't seem to stop myself from doing. Especially since there is no real "cure" for Borderline, and it's really not dealt with by medicine. (And i go extra farking crazy on SSRI pills... which is actually how all of this STARTED, when my uninsured ass trusted a walk-in state clinic to help with debilitating panic attacks... with Paxil and Zoloft that broke my brain enough to start to cycles of self-harm.)

Sigh.

Yeah. I'm a little frustrated.
 
2013-05-19 02:14:18 AM
serpent_sky, try exercise. It's been shown to be more effective than any medication for depression and anxiety.

/mmm, endorphins.
 
2013-05-19 02:27:09 AM
and this number has been rising for more than a decade.

And Congress still has done nothing to restore or increase the budget of the Mental Health System, even though the demand has been increasing steadily since the late 70's.

After the last episode, they talked a good game about how the funding needed to be increased -- and did nothing about it but they did insist the Military take 400 million for the development of a tank the military doesn't want!
 
2013-05-19 02:31:59 AM

PsiChick: Most of those problems actually do belong there. I have low-level Asperger's and bipolar; they both heavily impact my life, and I had to learn to control them, but I'm on the low end of both spectrums. You'd be amazed how bad even low-level mental illness can get.


Ah...so you assume I'm speaking from ignorance as well...just of another sort than the poster above? Perhaps that might be mistaken as well. :)

Anyway, for whatever it might be worth, you might notice that my criticism was a lot narrower than people seem to be interpreting. I didn't argue that there isn't such a thing as mental suffering. Nor did I even argue that "minor" problems somehow don't count, or that learning to live with such things more productively wasn't a worthwhile endeavor.

I was taking aim specifically at the disease model of mental illness. Take what is probably the most common malady on the books, depression. According to the prevailing paradigm, the affective and behavioral features that we tend to think define the problem (e.g., sadness, apathy, sense of hopelessness, solitude) are regarded merely as the "symptoms" of some deeper, underlying disorder within the mind -- whether neurological or psychological, depending on one's disciplinary perspective.

Now, that's a pretty strange way of thinking about depression, mostly because it posits a causal chain that is difficult to verify, since the "disorder" is mostly unobservable except by way of the symptoms that it supposedly causes, or (in neurological terms) incidental to them. In science, we call thinking of that sort a "tautology," and it is generally frowned upon. But, more than that, this way of looking at depression sets up a very specific way of thinking about suffering, and how to deal with it. I just don't think it's the most helpful way imaginable...

Maybe the "symptoms" of depression is pretty much the sum of the thing. Maybe that's as deep as the reality goes, and our thinking about the causality of the problem is fairly myopic when we restrict ourselves to the individual subject. That sets up a different way of thinking. It doesn't require treating suffering with any less seriousness. It just makes current psychiatric practices look...questionable, if not unhelpful, over the long term.
 
2013-05-19 12:15:48 PM

Bumblefark: PsiChick: Most of those problems actually do belong there. I have low-level Asperger's and bipolar; they both heavily impact my life, and I had to learn to control them, but I'm on the low end of both spectrums. You'd be amazed how bad even low-level mental illness can get.

Ah...so you assume I'm speaking from ignorance as well...just of another sort than the poster above? Perhaps that might be mistaken as well. :)

Anyway, for whatever it might be worth, you might notice that my criticism was a lot narrower than people seem to be interpreting. I didn't argue that there isn't such a thing as mental suffering. Nor did I even argue that "minor" problems somehow don't count, or that learning to live with such things more productively wasn't a worthwhile endeavor.

I was taking aim specifically at the disease model of mental illness. Take what is probably the most common malady on the books, depression. According to the prevailing paradigm, the affective and behavioral features that we tend to think define the problem (e.g., sadness, apathy, sense of hopelessness, solitude) are regarded merely as the "symptoms" of some deeper, underlying disorder within the mind -- whether neurological or psychological, depending on one's disciplinary perspective.

Now, that's a pretty strange way of thinking about depression, mostly because it posits a causal chain that is difficult to verify, since the "disorder" is mostly unobservable except by way of the symptoms that it supposedly causes, or (in neurological terms) incidental to them. In science, we call thinking of that sort a "tautology," and it is generally frowned upon. But, more than that, this way of looking at depression sets up a very specific way of thinking about suffering, and how to deal with it. I just don't think it's the most helpful way imaginable...

Maybe the "symptoms" of depression is pretty much the sum of the thing. Maybe that's as deep as the reality goes, and our thinking about the causality of the problem ...


Well, part of the reason we treat symptoms as, well, symptomatic, is because medications don't just work, sometimes they're the  only thing that works. My issues sure as hell aren't psychological, they're entirely biological. Unipolar depression that appears absent any life issue? That's biological. And treating it with medication is  the only thing that will work in those cases. Talk therapy helps, but you need to fix the neurological problem or you'll see no improvement in the symptoms.
 
2013-05-19 01:23:56 PM

Bumblefark: Maybe the "symptoms" of depression is pretty much the sum of the thing. Maybe that's as deep as the reality goes, and our thinking about the causality of the problem is fairly myopic when we restrict ourselves to the individual subject. That sets up a different way of thinking. It doesn't require treating suffering with any less seriousness. It just makes current psychiatric practices look...questionable, if not unhelpful, over the long term.


You're vague speculations on the symptoms of depression make current psychiatric practices look "questionable, if not unhelpful, over the long term"?  Oookay.
 
2013-05-19 04:10:34 PM

umad: gimmegimme: Kali-Yuga: Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.

Actually, it was more like 47%.

[axiomamnesia.com image 801x738]

That is oversimplifying things quite a bit. For instance, it doesn't account for brain-damaged scum of the Earth who talk politics in threads that aren't about politics.


Well played
 
2013-05-19 04:26:09 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: umad: gimmegimme: Kali-Yuga: Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.

Actually, it was more like 47%.

[axiomamnesia.com image 801x738]

That is oversimplifying things quite a bit. For instance, it doesn't account for brain-damaged scum of the Earth who talk politics in threads that aren't about politics.

Well played


Thanks. And thanks for the total Fark. Now I won't be getting anything done for the next few weeks. :)
 
2013-05-19 05:19:50 PM
"Mental disorder" can account for anything from ADHD, oppositional-defiance disorder, to schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. With such a wide spectrum and vagleading label iis a wonder the figure isn't much higher. Plus, have you seen these hellspawn brats today? Nuts, I tell ya.
 
2013-05-19 05:41:31 PM

umad: The Stealth Hippopotamus: umad: gimmegimme: Kali-Yuga: Not surprising since according to the most recent polls, about 80% of the adults in America suffer from a mental disorder.

Actually, it was more like 47%.

[axiomamnesia.com image 801x738]

That is oversimplifying things quite a bit. For instance, it doesn't account for brain-damaged scum of the Earth who talk politics in threads that aren't about politics.

Well played

Thanks. And thanks for the total Fark. Now I won't be getting anything done for the next few weeks. :)


You shall entertain me. Take heart in this.
 
2013-05-20 02:09:54 AM

Tanuki no Kintama: Bumblefark: Maybe the "symptoms" of depression is pretty much the sum of the thing. Maybe that's as deep as the reality goes, and our thinking about the causality of the problem is fairly myopic when we restrict ourselves to the individual subject. That sets up a different way of thinking. It doesn't require treating suffering with any less seriousness. It just makes current psychiatric practices look...questionable, if not unhelpful, over the long term.

You're vague speculations on the symptoms of depression make current psychiatric practices look "questionable, if not unhelpful, over the long term"?  Oookay.


Your (not "you're") vague criticism doesn't at all come across as passive aggressive.

Got a point you'd like to make, sport?
 
2013-05-20 02:17:06 AM

PsiChick: Well, part of the reason we treat symptoms as, well, symptomatic, is because medications don't just work, sometimes they're the only thing that works. My issues sure as hell aren't psychological, they're entirely biological. Unipolar depression that appears absent any life issue? That's biological. And treating it with medication is the only thing that will work in those cases. Talk therapy helps, but you need to fix the neurological problem or you'll see no improvement in the symptoms.


Excellent point.

I was discussing clinical depression. Know what works as well as medication? Exercise. Sort of makes sense, doesn't it?

Maybe, if your body and mind have become morbid, the answer to that is activity. Not speculating on some unobservable cause behind those "symptoms," but rather just the behavior itself. Change the behavior.
 
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