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(New York Daily News)   Career counselor Mayor Bloomberg: Skip college and become a plumber   (nydailynews.com) divider line 148
    More: Interesting, career counselor, trade schools, Harvard College  
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2072 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 May 2013 at 8:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-18 01:56:06 AM
I get his point but he comes off like a total douchebag in the quotes. Then again, we all know that he is one.
 
2013-05-18 02:10:18 AM
Four years of college at $50,000 a year puts you $200,000 behind at graduation.

However, attending a state school at $15,000 a year only puts you $60,000 behind at graduation.
 
2013-05-18 08:58:55 AM
He's probably right on the skip college part. But until the real world can duplicate the parties, sex and access to tens of thousands of those of the opposite sex that college has, kids will continue to attend. I know I did.
 
2013-05-18 09:03:55 AM
Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up
 
2013-05-18 09:04:16 AM
I spent less than 5k and spent two yrs on a degree to be a machinist and got a starting pay of 20 hr with 10 hrs ot pay. My other option was to start at 10 hr and work three yrs to get 14 hr.
 
2013-05-18 09:06:58 AM
mike rowe said the same thing to congress...except non-douchey like
 
2013-05-18 09:07:40 AM
1) He didn't consider the value of "not being a plumber."  A plumber will have some amazingly bad days.
2) If enough people follow his advice, supply will go up and pay will go down negating the "trade-off."
3) Plumbers don't learn about what to do with their money after they've made it which leads to much lower wealth accumulation.
 
2013-05-18 09:08:13 AM
A plumber will make more than most liberal art majors. He has a point.
 
2013-05-18 09:10:14 AM

MyRandomName: A plumber will make more than most liberal art majors. He has a point.


"most"?  Don't you mean all?
 
2013-05-18 09:15:44 AM

Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up


Who's an intellectual, a plumber knocking down 100K or a PhD in philosophy making lattes?
 
2013-05-18 09:16:17 AM

Cheron: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up


What's wrong with being a surfer?

external.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2013-05-18 09:16:48 AM
Bloomberg may come off as a total douchebag in this but at least he has a point for once.everytime I walk past the Art Institute and see the three to four hundred college students attending there I think "maybe your parents shouldn't have told you you can be anything you want to be when you grow up". I support the arts be used to be you had to have some genuine talent to consider going to school for it nowadays all it takes is a few impossible to repay loans from Sallie Mae and you're an artist! Kids who liked to doodle in high school thinking that they can make a career out of it because God forbid they choose a career that would require them to do some serious work for once.
 
2013-05-18 09:18:18 AM

Dracolich: 1) He didn't consider the value of "not being a plumber."  A plumber will have some amazingly bad days.


Who does not have bad days, doctors, nurses, fast food workers, accountants, engineers all can have some really amazingly bad days.


2) If enough people follow his advice, supply will go up and pay will go down negating the "trade-off."


True to a point, only the best and professional will be paid the most. Do you want a slob working in your house for 20hr or would you pay 25 hr for a clean professional.

3) Plumbers don't learn about what to do with their money after they've made it which leads to much lower wealth accumulation.

That is not true at all, I know plenty of craftsmen who have a considerable wealth, me being one. It is not hard to learn how to build wealth, you do not need a four year college to tell you how to build wealth.
 
2013-05-18 09:22:35 AM
I don't like Bloomberg, really I don't, but honestly, skipping college and getting a trade like locksmithing, plumbing, becoming ASE certified is a better career path than spending six figures on a four year degree to then land a job and living in poverty as you pay it all back.  Or, worse, you spend six figures in a degree like French Revolution Era Art and now the only place you can land a job is at Starbucks.

College today is too expensive to be anything other than an investment on a career.  If you go to college with the idea of bettering yourself, but not in the form of job training, wait a few decades, get a good job now or find an MLM that you could be successful at, earn the money so you can blow six figures on a "bettering yourself" degree that won't get you a job and not have to worry about paying back the student loans.  The first classmate of mine from high school who started making $1,000/week or more after taxes was 19 years old and got a job selling cars.  When I was with Primerica I saw 18 year olds making a consistent $1,200/week.  Beats getting student loans, going tens of thousands of dollars into debt to graduate after four plus years and maybe not having a job in the end.
 
2013-05-18 09:23:43 AM

ChrisDe: He's probably right on the skip college part. But until the real world can duplicate the parties, sex and access to tens of thousands of those of the opposite sex that college has, kids will continue to attend. I know I did.


They just have to learn patience, I've seen hundreds of documentaries about how much tang tradesmen like plumbers, cable installers and pizza guys get.
 
2013-05-18 09:28:10 AM
The problem is that people view college as a step to getting a job. College is not a vocational training program, it does not exist to teach job skills or workplace behavior, its purpose is not your future employment. The US does not have a decent vocational education program, and in this, we could take some lessons from Germany (we can  not take the lesson about deciding a child's future entirely based on some standardized tests- whoops, too late!).

If you go to college for the purpose of becoming employable, you've been led into a mistake- a mistake that colleges and employers are loathe to admit exists.
 
2013-05-18 09:39:51 AM
That is basically what my husband did, and he is now an electrician and supporting my underemployed ass.
 
2013-05-18 09:42:00 AM

Principal Clarinet: Four years of college at $50,000 a year puts you $200,000 behind at graduation.

However, attending a state school at $15,000 a year only puts you $60,000 behind at graduation.


or $5000 a year in NYC's public university system.
 
2013-05-18 09:42:03 AM

t3knomanser: The problem is that people view college as a step to getting a job


This is EXACTLY how college is portrayed.  Go to college, get a good job.  That was pounded into my head all in high school.  College was the way to go for a 'good' job.  I realize that is no longer the case, but in 1998, the year I graduated high school, it was.
 
2013-05-18 09:42:42 AM

t3knomanser: The problem is that people view college as a step to getting a job. College is not a vocational training program, it does not exist to teach job skills or workplace behavior, its purpose is not your future employment. The US does not have a decent vocational education program, and in this, we could take some lessons from Germany (we can  not take the lesson about deciding a child's future entirely based on some standardized tests- whoops, too late!).

If you go to college for the purpose of becoming employable, you've been led into a mistake- a mistake that colleges and employers are loathe to admit exists.



This man speaks the absolute truth. I'd go one step further and straight up call it not a mistake, but a con.
 
2013-05-18 09:44:34 AM

Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up


You'd think with a fancy college education you'd know the difference between "serfs" and waves in the ocean.
 
2013-05-18 09:51:50 AM

Plug Suit: This man speaks the absolute truth. I'd go one step further and straight up call it not a mistake, but a con.


You've been led into a mistake, whether it's an active con or not.

raerae1980: I realize that is no longer the case, but in 1998, the year I graduated high school, it was.


I graduated in the same year, and I went to college- but honestly, future employability wasn't the reason why. I just liked being in school. College is a great place for thoughtful types who just like learning shiat, and I'm  really good at learning shiat. My brain is full of so much useless crap and I keep piling on more and more.
 
2013-05-18 10:03:06 AM

pmdgrwr: That is not true at all, I know plenty of craftsmen who have a considerable wealth, me being one. It is not hard to learn how to build wealth, you do not need a four year college to tell you how to build wealth.


College doesn't tell you that. I went to school for writing (as I've said on here many times, I regret the whole "follow your dreams" shiat everyone advised me. I should have gone to law school, as I have a propensity for it, and while I've done okay, nothing I learned in college has been useful, since I already knew how to write before I went in).  Anyway, writing.  There were no classes on getting an agent. Selling your work.  Protecting and copyrighting your work. Selling your work. Nobody bothered with the business end of things, which is what most of us so-called "creative types" need the most help with.   So, that was a waste of time.

Beyond that, most college programs could easily be two years, and everyone should take a year or two off and work before committing to any life path.  But that will certainly be covered here I am sure.
 
2013-05-18 10:04:45 AM

t3knomanser: future employability


It was for me.  I honestly didn't know any better.  My parents, my school counselors, even my older friends were saying to go to college for a good job.   And the thing is...those older than me WERE getting good jobs. So, why would I NOT believe that college was the way to go?
 
2013-05-18 10:05:00 AM

Nabb1: Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up

You'd think with a fancy college education you'd know the difference between "serfs" and waves in the ocean.



i like his better

(lifes a beach)
 
2013-05-18 10:07:32 AM

pmdgrwr: Dracolich: 1) He didn't consider the value of "not being a plumber."  A plumber will have some amazingly bad days.

Who does not have bad days, doctors, nurses, fast food workers, accountants, engineers all can have some really amazingly bad days.


2) If enough people follow his advice, supply will go up and pay will go down negating the "trade-off."


True to a point, only the best and professional will be paid the most. Do you want a slob working in your house for 20hr or would you pay 25 hr for a clean professional.

3) Plumbers don't learn about what to do with their money after they've made it which leads to much lower wealth accumulation.

That is not true at all, I know plenty of craftsmen who have a considerable wealth, me being one. It is not hard to learn how to build wealth, you do not need a four year college to tell you how to build wealth.


I understand that you disagree.  There are always exceptions, but do you really believe that you're in-touch with this information?
1) As an engineer, I will never be called into a room with ankle-deep bile only to have to find and fix the problem which will likely involve getting even more up-close and personal with it.  At least doctors and nurses deal with it when it's fresh.
2) This is basic econ.  You cannot assume that an influx of labor will all be at the low end of the spectrum.
3) This one just makes me giggle.
 
2013-05-18 10:09:22 AM

t3knomanser: Plug Suit: This man speaks the absolute truth. I'd go one step further and straight up call it not a mistake, but a con.

You've been led into a mistake, whether it's an active con or not.

raerae1980: I realize that is no longer the case, but in 1998, the year I graduated high school, it was.

I graduated in the same year, and I went to college- but honestly, future employability wasn't the reason why. I just liked being in school. College is a great place for thoughtful types who just like learning shiat, and I'm  really good at learning shiat. My brain is full of so much useless crap and I keep piling on more and more.


what is your job now?
 
2013-05-18 10:14:36 AM

pmdgrwr: Dracolich: 2) If enough people follow his advice, supply will go up and pay will go down negating the "trade-off."

True to a point, only the best and professional will be paid the most. Do you want a slob working in your house for 20hr or would you pay 25 hr for a clean professional.


More to the point, Bloomberg was using 'plumber' as a metaphor for 'learn a skilled trade that will always be in demand'. Just like plumbers, carpenters, painters, glaziers, heavy equipment operators, etc., can't readily be outsourced and will be in demand as long as civilization exists.

3) Plumbers don't learn about what to do with their money after they've made it which leads to much lower wealth accumulation.

That is not true at all, I know plenty of craftsmen who have a considerable wealth, me being one. It is not hard to learn how to build wealth, you do not need a four year college to tell you how to build wealth.


As if kids partying in college somehow magically learn "what to do with their money". My step-brother took carpentry in high school voc-ed class; apprenticed right out of school, and got his contractor's license in minimum time. He's been worth considerably more than my college educated slacker self ever since.
 
2013-05-18 10:23:43 AM
So, outside of super geniuses, working to middle class kids should not go to college? Isn't that where his logic will take you?
 
kab
2013-05-18 10:31:12 AM
Learn a high paying trade that is generally needed everywhere and anywhere, or throw a ton of money into a degree that may possibly land you a job as a barista.

How he said it, is of course par for the course from someone who has probably never done a days worth of physical labor in his life.
 
2013-05-18 10:31:34 AM
As an engineer, I've fixed plumbing problems, started up nuclear reactors, gone into sanitary tanks, fixed garage doors, written manuals, run wiring, done network troubleshooting and just about every kind of thing you can imagine in an industrial setting.  I've had days so bad that I lost 10% of my body mass in a few weeks' time.  I had to go to college to become an engineer, but it hasn't insulated me from truly sh*tty work.

We need trade-inclined people, especially those that are unmotivated towards 4 years of classes and debt, to go to trade school, however.    We've promised a future that comes with coasting through a cheese major high and drunk for four years that ain't being delivered for too many.
 
2013-05-18 10:32:17 AM
If enough kids go this route you eventually you will wind up with a glut of plumbers and other trade workers.
 
2013-05-18 10:47:16 AM

Principal Clarinet: Four years of college at $50,000 a year puts you $200,000 behind at graduation.

However, attending a state school at $15,000 a year only puts you $60,000 behind at graduation.


You can get pell grants and subsidized stafford loans that should cover most of the bill at the state school.

Or you can go to a community college for a year or two, transfer, and save even more money.

/but my snowflake needs to go to a $50,000 a year resort university to get the college experience!
 
2013-05-18 11:01:36 AM

Dracolich: pmdgrwr: Dracolich: 1) He didn't consider the value of "not being a plumber."  A plumber will have some amazingly bad days.

Who does not have bad days, doctors, nurses, fast food workers, accountants, engineers all can have some really amazingly bad days.


2) If enough people follow his advice, supply will go up and pay will go down negating the "trade-off."


True to a point, only the best and professional will be paid the most. Do you want a slob working in your house for 20hr or would you pay 25 hr for a clean professional.

3) Plumbers don't learn about what to do with their money after they've made it which leads to much lower wealth accumulation.

That is not true at all, I know plenty of craftsmen who have a considerable wealth, me being one. It is not hard to learn how to build wealth, you do not need a four year college to tell you how to build wealth.

I understand that you disagree.  There are always exceptions, but do you really believe that you're in-touch with this information?
1) As an engineer, I will never be called into a room with ankle-deep bile only to have to find and fix the problem which will likely involve getting even more up-close and personal with it.  At least doctors and nurses deal with it when it's fresh.
2) This is basic econ.  You cannot assume that an influx of labor will all be at the low end of the spectrum.
3) This one just makes me giggle.



I would not wanted to work with other folks shiat either.  So HVAC, electrician or mechanic would have been good choices.  Luckily I landed in the niche of computer support before everyone wanted you to have a BA/BS in computering to do the farking helpdesk.

Trades are still needed.  The is problem with the 'greying' of heaving equipment mechanics and other such folks.  Hell, learn how to weld and do it well.  You'll get even more money if you show up sober and during hunting season.
 
2013-05-18 11:02:53 AM
I have a liberal arts degree and make 6 figures a year, but there is a qualifier.

I needed a degree to become a certified real estate appraiser.  Any degree would do and it was the easiest and fastest.

I then took 300 A hours worth of appraisal classes and apprentices during college, each house is worth about 6-12 hours and some more and I only needed 2000 hours of residential and1000 hours non residential which could be up to 100 hours a piece for a large commercial property.

I graduated in 1997 and I knew without college I would never have ended up making the dough I do now and I never have to stand in shiate like a Plummer, I spend a few days a week driving around checking out houses and the others inputting the info into a computer and working up values.

The good/bad thing is to become an appraiser you can't just go to college you have to find someone that will apprentice you, so if you know someone who will, stop what your doing and get that done ASAP.

All the old appraisers are retiring and the ppl my age aren't making any new competition and apprenticing anyone.  So I'm working my butt off but making $5-6k a week sometimes more sometimes a little less right now.

Not licensed, be certified either residential or the big dog CGA certified general, & then attach an MAI to that if you like from the appraisal institute, but I never have and it's not stopped me from ever getting a single contract.

/csb
 
2013-05-18 11:11:24 AM
I forgot to mention there is also a very long and possibly hard bar with math style test at the end of the appraising apprentice process, but I aced it, but I've known a couple guys who couldn't make it past the license test.
 
2013-05-18 11:18:24 AM
Question for all the people ridiculing the nasty substances one encounters as a plumber, do you likewise think you're hot shiat compared to a urologist, proctologist, or abdominal surgeon?
 
2013-05-18 11:22:51 AM

Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up


The bad thing about surfs is that if you want to do well with them you need to hang ten.
 
2013-05-18 11:23:06 AM

Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up


"Intellectuals" is rather generous for the sorry product liberal arts colleges have been cranking out lately.

"Dogma-trained agitator who is somewhat articulate" would probably more aptly describe the end result.
 
2013-05-18 11:26:20 AM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Question for all the people ridiculing the nasty substances one encounters as a plumber, do you likewise think you're hot shiat compared to a urologist, proctologist, or abdominal surgeon?


Those people all make much more than plumbers, and they encounter nasty substances in a clinical setting, not in a crawlspace on their hands and knees.
 
2013-05-18 11:28:54 AM

JasonOfOrillia: Cheron: Translation: The mega rich need well trained surfs and not a lot of intellectuals who will stir things up

The bad thing about surfs is that if you want to do well with them you need to hang ten.


I had an extra toe grafted on my foot so I could hang eleven.
 
2013-05-18 11:28:58 AM

t3knomanser: If you go to college for the purpose of becoming employable, you've been led into a mistake- a mistake that colleges and employers are loathe to admit exists.


Unless you want to be a teacher, doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant, or any other true profession that requires a college degree.
 
2013-05-18 11:33:23 AM
Q:  Why do plumbers charge $100 per hour?

A:  How bad do you have to shiat?
 
2013-05-18 11:41:13 AM
Can't outsource plumbing.
 
2013-05-18 11:43:23 AM

bacongood: Unless you want to be a teacher, doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant, or any other true profession that requires a college degree.


It than case, you aren't going to college to become employable- you're going to college because you want to learn the skills to achieve a goal. There's a fine difference, but it's an important difference. Your goal isn't "a job", your goal is "a skillset, which happens to be suitable for the job I'd like to have".

There are a lot of professions which "require" a college degree, but few, I think, which actually  require a college degree.
 
2013-05-18 11:45:07 AM
On the other hand, jobs that may not have required a degree 10-20 years ago now do. Admin. assistant is the first one that comes to mind. Entry-level lab tech is another...you could easily learn on-the-job but apparently you have to go into major debt to start at 28k.

We're steering the kids into either science or engineering programs, trade schools too. We'd also help them start and run a business if they're inclined.
 
2013-05-18 11:57:51 AM

ChrisDe: He's probably right on the skip college part. But until the real world can duplicate the parties, sex and access to tens of thousands of those of the opposite sex that college has, kids will continue to attend. I know I did.


Pssst... there are lot more members of the opposite sex outside of the walls of academia.
 
2013-05-18 12:07:25 PM
I disagree that you should not go to college because you want to get a better job. There are studies out there comparing salaries of people with a high school diploma vs. an Associates vs. a Bachelors so it does help to have that degree in the long run. I think the problem is that college is just too damn expensive for what it offers. I looked at taking classes at UMass Boston, and while the price of the classes aren't too bad the high fees plus the prices of textbooks are outrageous.
 
2013-05-18 12:14:37 PM

ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Question for all the people ridiculing the nasty substances one encounters as a plumber, do you likewise think you're hot shiat compared to a urologist, proctologist, or abdominal surgeon?


As Mike Rowe  has shown us many times, doing a shiatty job over and over ensures you get used to it.  Then you have the joy of sneering at the pussies who puke while they watch you.
 
2013-05-18 12:20:44 PM

t3knomanser: bacongood: Unless you want to be a teacher, doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant, or any other true profession that requires a college degree.

It than case, you aren't going to college to become employable- you're going to college because you want to learn the skills to achieve a goal. There's a fine difference, but it's an important difference. Your goal isn't "a job", your goal is "a skillset, which happens to be suitable for the job I'd like to have".

There are a lot of professions which "require" a college degree, but few, I think, which actually  require a college degree.


Every one that I listed actually requires a degree.  As in if you try to practice them without one, you will go to jail.

And I disagree - you can get the skillset for being a lawyer by hanging out in a courtroom and working at law firm.  But you can't be a lawyer without a degree.  Same with most of the other ones.  Doctors don't really need anything they learn in college, just med school.  So you are going to college to get a job, not a skillset.

/this assumes lawyers actually have a skill
 
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