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(ESPN)   Phil Jackson's new book reveals that he had more fun being carried to six titles by Jordan than he did being carried to five by Kobe   (espn.go.com) divider line 55
    More: Obvious, Kobe Bryant, Lakers, titles, Celtics, fun, NBA Finals  
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941 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 May 2013 at 11:48 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 11:51:56 AM
Phil Jackson's new book reveals that he had more fun being carried to six titles by Jordan than he did being carried to five two by Kobe
 
2013-05-17 11:55:09 AM

MugzyBrown: Phil Jackson's new book reveals that he had more fun being carried to six titles by Jordan than he did being carried to five two by Kobe


butthurtreportform.jpeg
 
2013-05-17 11:57:00 AM
Yeah Phil Jackson is a piggybacking asshole.  The John Salley of coaches for sure.
 
2013-05-17 11:57:17 AM
www.alreadytv.com
 
2013-05-17 12:02:16 PM
Phil Jackson is a hell of a coach for teams that are built for championships.  He can manage the egos and get the players to accept their roles and get the job done.

He can't do shiat with a less than stellar roster.  Greg Popovich is the best coach in the NBA and has been for about 17 years.

/Laker fan
 
2013-05-17 12:21:31 PM
Yes, all those other coaches that won titles never had any great players.
 
2013-05-17 12:24:17 PM
Hey, assmitter, it was six by Jordan, three by Shaq, and the last two only because the Celtics had key injuries in '09 and '10. So Kobe only won two championships for Phil, and he only got those two by default.
 
2013-05-17 12:30:58 PM

TheLopper: Yes, all those other coaches that won titles never had any great players.


Larry Brown with the Pistons?
 
2013-05-17 12:33:04 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Phil Jackson is a hell of a coach for teams that are built for championships. He can manage the egos and get the players to accept their roles and get the job done.


In the NBA, this skill is worth millions.  No MLB or NFL player can carry a team the way an NBA superstar can carry a team, and you can do quite well by keeping that superstar's head on straight without alienating the supporting cast.
 
2013-05-17 12:37:04 PM
Phil Jackson: the third base coach of NBA coaches.
 
2013-05-17 12:39:05 PM
Everyone knows three of those titles were Kukoc's.
 
2013-05-17 12:49:39 PM

Arkanaut: TheLopper: Yes, all those other coaches that won titles never had any great players.

Larry Brown with the Pistons?


Lenny Wilkins with the Sonics.  The only real star I know of on that team was Dennis Johnson.

But that was before Stern became commissioner.
 
2013-05-17 12:50:55 PM

logggur: Everyone knows three of those titles were Kukoc's.


No. Wennington.
 
2013-05-17 12:57:30 PM

UNC_Samurai: Arkanaut: TheLopper: Yes, all those other coaches that won titles never had any great players.

Larry Brown with the Pistons?

Lenny Wilkins with the Sonics.  The only real star I know of on that team was Dennis Johnson.

But that was before Stern became commissioner.


Doesn't Lenny have the record for career losses?
 
2013-05-17 12:58:52 PM
Wow, lots of Phil Jackson butthurt~!  Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.
 
2013-05-17 01:06:34 PM

Rwa2play: Wow, lots of Phil Jackson butthurt~!  Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.



The last year with Collins and the first year with Phil had the same result.. lost in the conference finals.


soooo your theory is bogus
 
2013-05-17 01:09:34 PM

Rwa2play: Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.


I wonder if Collins has the classic "just has the same things to say over and over again" problem as a coach. He can get a team to overachieve for a season or two, but in most cases they then completely give up on him as if they've just tuned him out.
 
2013-05-17 01:10:23 PM

MugzyBrown: Rwa2play: Wow, lots of Phil Jackson butthurt~!  Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.


The last year with Collins and the first year with Phil had the same result.. lost in the conference finals.


soooo your theory is bogus


Uh, really?  My theory would be bogus if Phil Jackson had been fired before the Bulls won a title.

So, I don't know what you're talking about.
 
2013-05-17 01:11:34 PM

Killer Cars: Rwa2play: Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.

I wonder if Collins has the classic "just has the same things to say over and over again" problem as a coach. He can get a team to overachieve for a season or two, but in most cases they then completely give up on him as if they've just tuned him out.


Same would go for Larry Brown; but at least he won a title with the Pistons.
 
2013-05-17 01:14:31 PM

Rwa2play: Uh, really?  My theory would be bogus if Phil Jackson had been fired before the Bulls won a title.

So, I don't know what you're talking about.



If Phil won the year he took over for Collins you  may have a point, but because he had the exact same result the following year, you have no point at all.

I could make the argument that Collins would have won the title the year before Phil because the team was showing continuous improvement.  But Phil shiat the bed and they had the same result as the year before.
 
2013-05-17 01:15:01 PM

Rwa2play: Same would go for Larry Brown; but at least he won a title with the Pistons.


But Brown seems to be perfectly fine with being the traveling salesman of the basketball coaching world. It's like his whole purpose is to teach a philosophy and the second his players burn out on it he already has one foot out the door.
 
2013-05-17 01:17:18 PM

Rwa2play: MugzyBrown: Rwa2play: Wow, lots of Phil Jackson butthurt~!  Yet no mention of Doug Collins crapping the bed with (practically) the same team years earlier.


The last year with Collins and the first year with Phil had the same result.. lost in the conference finals.


soooo your theory is bogus

Uh, really?  My theory would be bogus if Phil Jackson had been fired before the Bulls won a title.

So, I don't know what you're talking about.


Also, practically the same team is BS.

Collins last year he had Pippen and Grant only in their 2nd years in the league and no BJ Armstrong.

Mayyybe it wasn't brilliant coaching, but the need for Jordan's supporting cast to mature.
 
2013-05-17 01:28:41 PM

velvet_fog: Hey, assmitter, it was six by Jordan, three by Shaq, and the last two only because the Celtics had key injuries in '09 and '10. So Kobe only won two championships for Phil, and he only got those two by default.


No team in major professional sports ever wins a title "by default". Especially when the postseason is 2 months long.
 
2013-05-17 01:34:12 PM

UNC_Samurai: Lenny Wilkins with the Sonics.  The only real star I know of on that team was Dennis Johnson.


Jack Sikma was an All-Star and Gus Williams would go on to be second-team all-NBA the following year.  Also, Fred Brown had been one of the league's leading scorers before Johnson and Williams came along and pushed him into super-sub status.  They didn't have any HOFers (Sikma comes close, maybe Johnson as well) but there was some star power.

Anyway, the Jackson book.  This is pretty consistent with the image I have of Jordan and Bryant.  Both are hyper-competitive and want to kill you at everything from basketball to rock-paper-scissors; Jordan is more of an alpha male who's not just "my way or the highway" but simply doesn't entertain the idea that there might be other ways at all; Bryant is a little more self-aware, reflective and neurotic, for better or worse.
 
2013-05-17 01:38:49 PM
He coached 20 years and won 11 titles.  He's, at worst, in the top 3 all time for NBA coaches.
 
2013-05-17 01:42:12 PM
Video caption: Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless react to Phil Jackson's comments in his new book, in which he breaks down what separated Michael Jordan from Kobe Bryant

Thank you, AdBlock.
 
2013-05-17 02:26:56 PM

seumasokelly: velvet_fog: Hey, assmitter, it was six by Jordan, three by Shaq, and the last two only because the Celtics had key injuries in '09 and '10. So Kobe only won two championships for Phil, and he only got those two by default.

No team in major professional sports ever wins a title "by default". Especially when the postseason is 2 months long.


The SEC would like to have a word with you

/ducks
 
2013-05-17 02:40:37 PM

UNC_Samurai: seumasokelly: velvet_fog: Hey, assmitter, it was six by Jordan, three by Shaq, and the last two only because the Celtics had key injuries in '09 and '10. So Kobe only won two championships for Phil, and he only got those two by default.

No team in major professional sports ever wins a title "by default". Especially when the postseason is 2 months long.

The SEC would like to have a word with you

/ducks


The SEC fits none of the criteria I laid out. OK, har har, professional. Their postseason currently lasts 3.5 hours x2.
 
2013-05-17 02:44:25 PM
Is Jerry Buss submitting links from beyond the grave?
 
2013-05-17 02:50:35 PM
Yeah that's how I remember it too.  Kobe and Shaq were ringin up the championships, so the Lakers decided to call Phil Jackson to see if he wanted to come along for the ride.
 
2013-05-17 03:24:55 PM
Less babysitting
 
2013-05-17 03:25:55 PM

MugzyBrown: If Phil won the year he took over for Collins you  may have a point, but because he had the exact same result the following year, you have no point at all.


So in his first season as an NBA coach he led them just as far as Doug Collins, who has been considered a pretty good coach by all standards.

/only a damned fool would discount Jackson's part in the success of his teams
//lemme know how many titles Kobe, Jordan, and Pippen have without Jackson, even though he didn't coach them for their whole careers
 
2013-05-17 03:31:47 PM

lennavan: Yeah that's how I remember it too.  Kobe and Shaq were ringin up the championships, so the Lakers decided to call Phil Jackson to see if he wanted to come along for the ride.


Kobe had about 50 career starts when Phil took over and Fisher was in his 2nd year.  Once again he benefited from taking over a team with a superstar (Jordan/Shaq) in their prime, and 2nd superstar who was just entering his prime (Pippen/Kobe) and top-level role players just entering their prime (Grant/Fisher)

I think Phil is a very good coach, but you have to acknowledge he took over teams at the opportune times.  He gets credit for pushing great teams over the top, but in reality he took over good, young teams that were just starting to reach great status.
 
2013-05-17 03:37:06 PM

MugzyBrown: I think Phil is a very good coach, but you have to acknowledge he took over teams at the opportune times. He gets credit for pushing great teams over the top, but in reality he took over good, young teams that were just starting to reach great status.


Oh for sure.  But if you think Phil wasn't a part of those equations, you're just a silly pants.  You want an example of a coach being carried:

pablochiste.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-17 03:44:31 PM

lennavan: Oh for sure. But if you think Phil wasn't a part of those equations, you're just a silly pants. You want an example of a coach being carried:

pablochiste.files.wordpress.com


I don't think he's a bad coach.  He let himself be carried the first year and it didn't work, since then they've rebuilt what that team does.  You want a coach who's being carried, look at Scott Brooks.  The Thunder can get 60 regular season wins on talent alone but they have no system besides letting Durant and Westbrook do their thing and it's obvious the second something goes wrong.
 
2013-05-17 04:05:40 PM
Remember between the Shaq and Pau trades, when Phil was a .500 coach because he was hand tied and forced to make due with merely one All NBA Superstar player?
 
2013-05-17 04:06:46 PM

lennavan: You want an example of a coach being carried:


You're aware that he's a pretty damn good coach as well, right? Pat Riley isn't going to f*ck around and let you f*ck up his teams.
 
2013-05-17 04:21:33 PM

you have pee hands: lennavan: Oh for sure. But if you think Phil wasn't a part of those equations, you're just a silly pants. You want an example of a coach being carried:

I don't think he's a bad coach.


Well, I didn't say he was a bad coach.  I said he was being carried.

you have pee hands: He let himself be carried the first year and it didn't work


I'm assuming we mean in the LeBron years and by "didn't work" you mean "made the NBA finals."

IAmRight: You're aware that he's a pretty damn good coach as well


If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls.  Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them.  That's evidence of pretty damn good.

IAmRight: Pat Riley isn't going to f*ck around and let you f*ck up his teams.


Pat Riley was a damn good coach.  There's just no way you can call Eric Spoelstra a damn good coach if for no other reason than he hasn't proven himself yet.  Justin Beiber could coach the Miami Heat to an NBA championship right now.
 
2013-05-17 04:30:29 PM

lennavan: I'm assuming we mean in the LeBron years and by "didn't work" you mean "made the NBA finals."


In a thread about Phil Jackson my assumption was the criteria for success is a title, or maybe multiple titles.

Well, I didn't say he was a bad coach.  I said he was being carried.

To me that seems a little contradictory.  Either he's a good coach, and he's a part of ensuring the team succeeds, or he's being carried.  I don't see how it can be both.
 
2013-05-17 04:38:56 PM

MugzyBrown: If Phil won the year he took over for Collins you may have a point, but because he had the exact same result the following year, you have no point at all.


I keep seeing this argument and it's somewhat lazy. They lost to the same team, and took the series to 7 under Phil (they won against the Pistons the next year, wheres Collins had lost to the Pistons in his final two seasons). The Bulls also won 8 more games in the regular season. The team WAS significantly better in Phil's first season.

And, to be fair, moving Jordan to PG is crapping the bed, regardless of a lucky streak in the playoffs during one season.
 
2013-05-17 04:40:40 PM

lennavan: If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls. Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them. That's evidence of pretty damn good.


Before they won the title, he was getting a LOT of heat for his players not performing as well as they could.

Injuries, no. Giant egos? Yes. It's why Phil's a legend, and Eric's not just an also-ran anymore.
 
2013-05-17 04:50:06 PM

puffy999: Before they won the title, he was getting a LOT of heat for his players not performing as well as they could.


Which players would this be?   Grant and Pippin followed completely standard career arcs.
 
2013-05-17 04:56:18 PM

lennavan: If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls.  Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them.  That's evidence of pretty damn good.


Or you could look at how the Heat have improved every year under Spoelstra and say maybe he's pretty good.
 
2013-05-17 04:56:49 PM

puffy999: lennavan: If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls. Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them. That's evidence of pretty damn good.

Before they won the title, he was getting a LOT of heat for his players not performing as well as they could.

Injuries, no. Giant egos? Yes. It's why Phil's a legend, and Eric's not just an also-ran anymore.


Yes, it was also fairly well known that Jordan would soon want out if they couldn't get him a title ASAP.
 
2013-05-17 05:16:00 PM

IAmRight: lennavan: If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls.  Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them.  That's evidence of pretty damn good.

Or you could look at how the Heat have improved every year under Spoelstra and say maybe he's pretty good.


I tried really hard to come up with an alternative explanation as to why the Heat may have gotten better in the last few years and came up empty, so I guess you're right.
 
2013-05-17 05:45:08 PM

lennavan: IAmRight: lennavan: If you want to see a good coach, look at the Bulls.  Look at the injuries they sustained and how they performed despite them.  That's evidence of pretty damn good.

Or you could look at how the Heat have improved every year under Spoelstra and say maybe he's pretty good.

I tried really hard to come up with an alternative explanation as to why the Heat may have gotten better in the last few years and came up empty, so I guess you're right.


I think they've built an improved supporting cast from Lebron's 1st year with the Heat.  That being said, Spo's gotten Lebron and Wade to cut most of the stupid shots out of their offense, made Norris Cole a valuable player, convinced Bosh to reinvent his whole game around the team's offensive design, and in my opinion has done a good job managing minutes and egos.

I'm probably biased though, I liked Spo as a coach before the Heatles were formed.
 
2013-05-17 06:48:00 PM

InmanRoshi: Which players would this be? Grant and Pippin followed completely standard career arcs.


downstairs: Yes, it was also fairly well known that Jordan would soon want out if they couldn't get him a title ASAP.


I actually copied the wrong thing, I meant Eric, not Phil.
 
2013-05-17 07:05:57 PM
Spoelstra decided this offseason to radically alter the team's offense to be able to prominently feature LeBron James at the 4. Then they ripped off the second longest winning streak ever. Sure, it seems obvious in retrospect, but if it hadn't worked, it would have been easy to second guess. "Take an MVP and make him switch positions... what a dumb idea."
 
2013-05-17 09:48:34 PM

skrame: Stephen A. Smith and Skip Bayless react to Phil Jackson's comments in his new book, in which he breaks down what separated Michael Jordan from Kobe Bryant


You mean besides the rape thing?
 
2013-05-18 02:22:11 AM

velvet_fog: Hey, assmitter, it was six by Jordan, three by Shaq, and the last two only because the Celtics had key injuries in '09 and '10. So Kobe only won two championships for Phil, and he only got those two by default.


So true. I always love shoving that fact in the noses of Kobe fans when they claim he won 5 titles so he's almost as good as Jordan. Duncan is a better player than Kobe especially since he was the best player on all four of the Spurs titles.
 
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