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(Kotaku)   Developer releases screenshots comparing graphics of PS3 to PS4 on Killzone. The good news is next-gen giant piles of crap will look fantastic   (kotaku.com) divider line 132
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7978 clicks; posted to Geek » on 17 May 2013 at 11:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 11:47:19 AM
So "about as good as my home-built PC in 2007" then?
 
2013-05-17 11:51:28 AM
I see no massive difference
 
2013-05-17 11:53:13 AM
Surprise, surprise, budget hardware runs low quality graphics.

If the native execution is 1080p, why are they even working on an AA scheme? Particularly considering that most people play their consoles on TVs, and they don't sit right next to their TVs when doing so.
 
2013-05-17 11:54:26 AM

unlikely: So "about as good as my home-built PC in 2007" then?


Heeere we go again.

www.lotustalk.com
 
2013-05-17 11:54:55 AM
The new consoles are packing GPUs on par with what about $180 will buy for a PC right now, correct?

And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?

All that while PCs are now being benchmarked a 3x1080p Eyefinity or even a 4K resolutions. Won't these consoles be a little quaint and outdated in two years when 4K displays really flood the market? That resolution can already be had at 50" for $1200.
 
2013-05-17 11:57:38 AM
Also, notice what they're doing. The graphics quality isn't that much enhanced, but the available memory for storing graphics data is. You get higher fidelity models (and hopefully no more texture pop), but those don't equate to nice graphics in terms of processing power. They've already said that the PS4 GPU is on par with a Radeon 7850... a mid-range card by today's standards, and an old mid-range card by release.

Consoles have somehow managed to suck all the cutting-edginess and sexiness out of video gaming.
 
2013-05-17 11:58:10 AM
I'd like to congratulate consoles on finally catching up to GPU technology from 3 years ago.
 
2013-05-17 12:00:10 PM

madgonad: And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?


Rendering is harder than decoding, usually. They also said they're only hitting 1080p at 30Hz, which is similarly disappointing.

At least when the 360 came out it was a substantive jump in performance over the XBox.
 
2013-05-17 12:02:25 PM

madgonad: The new consoles are packing GPUs on par with what about $180 will buy for a PC right now, correct?

And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?

All that while PCs are now being benchmarked a 3x1080p Eyefinity or even a 4K resolutions. Won't these consoles be a little quaint and outdated in two years when 4K displays really flood the market? That resolution can already be had at 50" for $1200.


Yep, yep, yep and yuuuuuup.  The 4K resolution's hardware needs to drive a game on it is already ensuring the consoles are underpowered even before they're going to show up on the market.  Hey at least the 4K's max refresh rate over HDMI is topped out at 30fps, console users are used to getting that degree of stuttery playback.
 
2013-05-17 12:03:34 PM
1) I litterally had to stare at that first picture for about 2 minutes trying to compare the two to figure out which was supposed to be the 'new' one.  One is labled "kill zone 3", the other "Killzone: Shadow fall", and I had no idea of shadow fall was kill zone 2, or kill zone 4.  Maybe that makes me an old man.  Get off my lawn.

2) If i agree to pay the same amount for a new console that has weaker graphics than the current gen consols, can you take that money and pay story writers and developers to make new and interesting games?

Seriously, I'll pay $50 for an 8-bit style graphic game if it was original and entertaining.

No?  just better rendered grey/brown uniformed soldiers shooting other grey/brown uniformed bad guys in a grey/brown rubble pile?  sigh.  ok.
 
2013-05-17 12:05:40 PM
I haven't played the Xbox since I finished Dishonored ... no game has interested me enough to purchase or rent it, and I will probably just switch to PC gaming.  The PC I built a few years ago can still crank it out.  If I purchase anything, it will be a Wii U for the kids.
 
2013-05-17 12:06:13 PM

RoxtarRyan: unlikely: So "about as good as my home-built PC in 2007" then?

Heeere we go again.

[www.lotustalk.com image 427x510]


I was strongly considering ramping up the troll-o-meter but I think I'll just sit back and let it all unfold naturally.
 
2013-05-17 12:08:13 PM
God that was poorly written and poorly organized.
 
2013-05-17 12:08:22 PM
Games are getting better all the time now that they've perfected digital eyelash rendering!

/switching back to PC-gaming this holiday season
 
2013-05-17 12:08:57 PM

Fubini: madgonad: And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?

Rendering is harder than decoding, usually. They also said they're only hitting 1080p at 30Hz, which is similarly disappointing.

At least when the 360 came out it was a substantive jump in performance over the XBox.


Seiki is limited to 30hz based solely upon HDMI limitations. People have gotten the special firmware now and have set-ups running at 4Kp60 using two HDMI cables. The panel itself runs at 120hz, the problem is moving the data.

I am waiting for the proper advancement to HDMI 2.0 which will allow 4Kp60 with a single cable.

A friend of mine ordered a few of them for testing and a couple requested installs for his home theater business. The display looks fantastic! The frame rate was noticeable playing Skyrim, but not Starcraft 2.

7870 has no problems running @4k.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:39 PM

Fubini: madgonad: And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?

Rendering is harder than decoding, usually. They also said they're only hitting 1080p at 30Hz, which is similarly disappointing.

At least when the 360 came out it was a substantive jump in performance over the XBox.


That's gonna keep happening though. Every generation you'll have a diminishing ROI. Back in the '90s/early '00s, every company was focused on graphics and how good it looked.

cdn.overclock.net

Now that we've reached a point where current-gen and next-gen are almost indistinguishable, gamers are focusing more and more on the story and meat of the game instead of how pretty they look.

Doesn't matter how pretty your game is, if you can't tell a good story or allow me to immerse myself in the game, I just don't really care anymore.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:41 PM
Wow, I'm a "casual techie-interested individual", and I see no difference in the pictures they have. All... 2 of them (very in-depth).

1) Get over 4K, it ain't happening for at least 10 years. There's barely 1080 content out there, you're dreaming if you think 4K will take off soon, let alone the data and space it takes to deliver it. We're just not there yet.

2) The word 'only' in ""only" 30fps", should not be in quotations. 60fps needs to be standard. 30fps is a juttery mess and looks like crap. If Rage can do it, then every title in next-gen can do it.

3) No one but PC Gamers care how outdated anything is. People care what it looks like. Does it look much better than the PS3? Then party on, Garth. It doesn't? Then it will fail. No one cares what generation/combination of letters the graphics card has.

4) I'm not optimistic about the nextbox. The PS4 is underwhelming, so Microsoft won't have to go that much better to dominate this generation as well. It's a business. They don't care how good it is, they care how much better it is than the competition.
 
2013-05-17 12:14:14 PM
IMO, if I'm ever going to get another console (haven't had one since the PS3), it's gonna be a Steambox.
 
2013-05-17 12:15:38 PM
This is stupid. I couldn't tell which one was the PS4. We have hit the wall of diminishing returns. Why do we even need new consoles anymore?
 
2013-05-17 12:17:36 PM

TV's Vinnie: IMO, if I'm ever going to get another console (haven't had one since the PS3), it's gonna be a Steambox.


You might as well buy a good PC
/I hear the first crop of Steam boxes will cost 1k
 
2013-05-17 12:21:26 PM

whizbangthedirtfarmer: I haven't played the Xbox since I finished Dishonored ... no game has interested me enough to purchase or rent it, and I will probably just switch to PC gaming.  The PC I built a few years ago can still crank it out.  If I purchase anything, it will be a Wii U for the kids.


Man... for a game that was supposed to be a AAA title for $60, what a waste. 10 hours, done, and the only "replay" value is whether or not you kill certain people. Massive disappointment. No multiplayer. Crap DLC. Decent concept maybe, but that was the most linear, scripted and forgettable game I've played in a long time. The developers even had the balls to call that game a "sandbox" style game. Even on the hardest setting, it was ridiculously easy.
 
2013-05-17 12:22:10 PM
"Just How More Detailed Are PS4 Characters Over PS3 Characters?"


Not that much.
 
2013-05-17 12:22:18 PM

Tommy Moo: This is stupid. I couldn't tell which one was the PS4. We have hit the wall of diminishing returns. Why do we even need new consoles anymore?


I would like a console with enough RAM to dramatically reduce loading times. It would also be nice if character's faces and hands, etc., didn't look like crap, but that may be more a function of the game artists than the equipment.
 
2013-05-17 12:27:30 PM

sure haven't: Wow, I'm a "casual techie-interested individual", and I see no difference in the pictures they have. All... 2 of them (very in-depth).

1) Get over 4K, it ain't happening for at least 10 years. There's barely 1080 content out there, you're dreaming if you think 4K will take off soon, let alone the data and space it takes to deliver it. We're just not there yet.

2) The word 'only' in ""only" 30fps", should not be in quotations. 60fps needs to be standard. 30fps is a juttery mess and looks like crap. If Rage can do it, then every title in next-gen can do it.

3) No one but PC Gamers care how outdated anything is. People care what it looks like. Does it look much better than the PS3? Then party on, Garth. It doesn't? Then it will fail. No one cares what generation/combination of letters the graphics card has.

4) I'm not optimistic about the nextbox. The PS4 is underwhelming, so Microsoft won't have to go that much better to dominate this generation as well. It's a business. They don't care how good it is, they care how much better it is than the competition.


I generally agree with you, but not about #1.

Resolution is all about a sharp image at a perceived image size. 1080p stays sharp for images that occupy about 30 degrees of your vision. Stretch your arms out,open you hands, point them toward the wall and touch your thumbs and index fingers together. What you open hands covers is about 30 degrees. If you want to a bigger image than that and still be sharp, you need to increase resolution beyond 1080p. If you are happy with that much perceived screen area - then don't worry about upgrading.

What we do know now is that China has decided that they are going to kick the Japanese/Korean's asses with 4K. The decent Seiki display is coming in at about 20-25% of the price of Sony's medium sized 4K display. The Chinese are going to completely steal the next upgrade cycle by selling 4K for a 50% premium (vs 1,000% premium that consumers paid for early 1080p).

If you want a big image, only a PC will be able to deliver it.
 
2013-05-17 12:29:04 PM
Methinks the lesson learned by Sony concerning the expense/risk of its Cell processor was taken a bit too much to heart.

Surely there could be some reasonable middle ground between building the half-a-trillion-dollar Cell and putting together a console with $180 worth of newegg parts.
 
2013-05-17 12:29:05 PM

scottydoesntknow: Now that we've reached a point where current-gen and next-gen are almost indistinguishable, gamers are focusing more and more on the story and meat of the game instead of how pretty they look.

Doesn't matter how pretty your game is, if you can't tell a good story or allow me to immerse myself in the game, I just don't really care anymore.


I would rather a game be Nintendo-hard than drag me through a story on rails, mashing X to skip through cutscenes of foofy emo bullshiat that interrupt actual gameplay.
 
2013-05-17 12:30:10 PM

RoxtarRyan: whizbangthedirtfarmer: I haven't played the Xbox since I finished Dishonored ... no game has interested me enough to purchase or rent it, and I will probably just switch to PC gaming.  The PC I built a few years ago can still crank it out.  If I purchase anything, it will be a Wii U for the kids.

Man... for a game that was supposed to be a AAA title for $60, what a waste. 10 hours, done, and the only "replay" value is whether or not you kill certain people. Massive disappointment. No multiplayer. Crap DLC. Decent concept maybe, but that was the most linear, scripted and forgettable game I've played in a long time. The developers even had the balls to call that game a "sandbox" style game. Even on the hardest setting, it was ridiculously easy.


Yep, and maybe that's what got me in the end.  It wasn't >bad< but it certainly wasn't all that hype.  I finished the game with only a few kills here and there and said: that's it?  Haven't touched any other games since.

\well, except Luigi's Mansion 2, but to help the kid out
 
2013-05-17 12:31:39 PM

sure haven't: 1) Get over 4K, it ain't happening for at least 10 years. There's barely 1080 content out there, you're dreaming if you think 4K will take off soon, let alone the data and space it takes to deliver it. We're just not there yet.


Also, 4K movies have no problem fitting on 3-4 layer BluRays using h.265

There is also a hidden benefit. 4K is generally the resolution limit for 35mm film. So when you buy a 4K BluRay you will essentially be getting the studio master. You won't ever have to buy it again since you will have all of the video and audio quality that exists.  (except movie filmed in 70mm or IMAX)
 
2013-05-17 12:32:48 PM
I swear, all would be forgiven if they would just have some damn backwards compatibility. I love my PS3, but hate the fact that the only way I can play PS2 games on it is if I buy them from the PSN Store.

If the hardware can emulate those games just fine, and can play the type of discs they come on (DVDs), then what's the farkin' problem?!

Seriously, someone tell me why this is apparently impossible.
 
2013-05-17 12:33:26 PM

Flakeloaf: scottydoesntknow: Now that we've reached a point where current-gen and next-gen are almost indistinguishable, gamers are focusing more and more on the story and meat of the game instead of how pretty they look.

Doesn't matter how pretty your game is, if you can't tell a good story or allow me to immerse myself in the game, I just don't really care anymore.

I would rather a game be Nintendo-hard than drag me through a story on rails, mashing X to skip through cutscenes of foofy emo bullshiat that interrupt actual gameplay.


You might enjoy The Binding of Isaac with the Wrath of the Lamb expansion then. One of the most difficult games I've played in a long time. I've heard that Hotline Miami is also quite the challenge.
 
2013-05-17 12:34:39 PM
As I can see no discernible difference, I can only assume that the PS5 will just be a box with a few third-world children inside that will act out our games.
 
2013-05-17 12:36:05 PM

sure haven't: Wow, I'm a "casual techie-interested individual", and I see no difference in the pictures they have. All... 2 of them (very in-depth).

1) Get over 4K, it ain't happening for at least 10 years. There's barely 1080 content out there, you're dreaming if you think 4K will take off soon, let alone the data and space it takes to deliver it. We're just not there yet.

2) The word 'only' in ""only" 30fps", should not be in quotations. 60fps needs to be standard. 30fps is a juttery mess and looks like crap. If Rage can do it, then every title in next-gen can do it.

3) No one but PC Gamers care how outdated anything is. People care what it looks like. Does it look much better than the PS3? Then party on, Garth. It doesn't? Then it will fail. No one cares what generation/combination of letters the graphics card has.

4) I'm not optimistic about the nextbox. The PS4 is underwhelming, so Microsoft won't have to go that much better to dominate this generation as well. It's a business. They don't care how good it is, they care how much better it is than the competition.


Sony themselves have said 4K won't be used for games anyways, developers are targeting 30fps at 1080p much less anything higher in resolution, as for whether 4k catches on in multimedia? maybe on computers or tablets where viewable distance is much closer, but in a set-top-box setup w/ a tv it's not really worth it

as for the graphic comparison and the PS4's capabilities, the PS4 in the long run will be more interesting than the first few years, but as it stands relying only on the GPU you're basically looking at a jump similar to a PS3/360 game ported to a 3 year old PC with some mods, games will look cleaner which will be the big selling point... i have to question the choice of unified GDDR5, it was okay with a 360-level game in mind but you're basically side-lining games that might've utilized more complex systems again for another decade
 
2013-05-17 12:36:35 PM

Wade_Wilson: I swear, all would be forgiven if they would just have some damn backwards compatibility. I love my PS3, but hate the fact that the only way I can play PS2 games on it is if I buy them from the PSN Store.

If the hardware can emulate those games just fine, and can play the type of discs they come on (DVDs), then what's the farkin' problem?!

Seriously, someone tell me why this is apparently impossible.


Sony is working on a cloud based emulator for their PS1-3 library.  May not be ready for launch day, but I'm betting on a year 1 release.
 
2013-05-17 12:38:20 PM
Scottydoesntknow: [polygoncountpic.jpg]

Two things with that pic. irst, what was the final picture's goal? Was it asimple, shiny metallic bust of Beethoven from a static angle and doesn't even please the eye in HD photographic quality? lso, who counts polygons anymore? This isn't 2003. The laws of diminishing return do not really peak until it becomes indiscernible from reality. it's like someone innovating on pong back in the 70's and saying "I've taken your boring square pongball and made it about as round as it can get. Anymore digits of pi, and it becomes some really irrelevant  diminishing returns...
 
2013-05-17 12:39:26 PM

Wade_Wilson: I swear, all would be forgiven if they would just have some damn backwards compatibility. I love my PS3, but hate the fact that the only way I can play PS2 games on it is if I buy them from the PSN Store.

If the hardware can emulate those games just fine, and can play the type of discs they come on (DVDs), then what's the farkin' problem?!

Seriously, someone tell me why this is apparently impossible.


Specifically with the PS3 its the whole 'they changed the entire architecture' thing, even the first gen PS3s that claimed to be backward compatible only sorta maybe could sometimes it.  The other is of course greed, when your older product is still attracting sales why compete with it using your newer product.  "Why not both?" indeed.

Fortunately I've got no such issues with my PC games (within reasonable limits, if you *really* want to play something from 10+ years ago...good for you)
 
2013-05-17 12:43:43 PM
You can play games on a PC?
 
2013-05-17 12:44:46 PM
If 30fps looks 'stuttery' to you then you aren't really getting consistent 30fps.  Sorry.
 
2013-05-17 12:46:51 PM

BumpInTheNight: Fortunately I've got no such issues with my PC games (within reasonable limits, if you *really* want to play something from 10+ years ago...good for you)


www.lynkformer.com

This is an awesome game that I just recently learned how to play on my current PC. Something about using software to "downgrade" your computer in order to play an old game just makes me happy.
 
2013-05-17 12:47:35 PM

Wade_Wilson: I swear, all would be forgiven if they would just have some damn backwards compatibility. I love my PS3, but hate the fact that the only way I can play PS2 games on it is if I buy them from the PSN Store.

If the hardware can emulate those games just fine, and can play the type of discs they come on (DVDs), then what's the farkin' problem?!

Seriously, someone tell me why this is apparently impossible.


Most likely due to Stupid Programmer Tricks. The games may have used compatibility workarounds to run on PS2 hardware that aren't accurately emulated, or can only be emulated in a computationally expensive way. Also the licensing for those games may have expired, which means they can't be republished in another form.
 
2013-05-17 12:48:34 PM
Maybe now they can unlock the awesome potential of the cell!

Excuse me while I laugh myself put the door.

/just bought a ps3 two days ago for the new ffhd releases.
 
2013-05-17 12:48:57 PM

lewismarktwo: If 30fps looks 'stuttery' to you then you aren't really getting consistent 30fps.  Sorry.


Panning at 30fps (something very common in Skyrim) makes the individual frames very visible and blocky.
 
2013-05-17 12:52:17 PM

sxacho: BumpInTheNight: Fortunately I've got no such issues with my PC games (within reasonable limits, if you *really* want to play something from 10+ years ago...good for you)

[www.lynkformer.com image 640x400]

This is an awesome game that I just recently learned how to play on my current PC. Something about using software to "downgrade" your computer in order to play an old game just makes me happy.


Stunts is an amazing game. I'd make tracks entirely of loops to see how many in a row i could go through.
 
2013-05-17 12:54:02 PM
img.gawkerassets.com

Wow! Look at this beautifully rendered pile of shiat!
 
2013-05-17 12:55:19 PM
I want to know whose butt it is and why it's farting, not increase its mipmap resolution.
 
2013-05-17 12:56:56 PM

lewismarktwo: If 30fps looks 'stuttery' to you then you aren't really getting consistent 30fps.  Sorry.


Exactly, consoles are lucky to maintain consistent frame rate in the menus alone and as another mentioned:  30fps and down really doesn't suite fast action in the first place even if it is consistent.

/See:  Every action move ever, especially the heavily CGI ones
 
2013-05-17 12:58:20 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: /I hear the first crop of Steam boxes will cost 1k


So? Steam isn't trying to produce sh*tboxes. They're willing to let Sony and Microsoft have their little pissing contests while Steam works on helping bring content to the console realm.
 
2013-05-17 01:00:13 PM

scottydoesntknow: Fubini: madgonad: And the highest resolution will be 1080p for gaming, despite being able to play 4K BluRays?

Rendering is harder than decoding, usually. They also said they're only hitting 1080p at 30Hz, which is similarly disappointing.

At least when the 360 came out it was a substantive jump in performance over the XBox.

That's gonna keep happening though. Every generation you'll have a diminishing ROI. Back in the '90s/early '00s, every company was focused on graphics and how good it looked.

[cdn.overclock.net image 549x275]

Now that we've reached a point where current-gen and next-gen are almost indistinguishable, gamers are focusing more and more on the story and meat of the game instead of how pretty they look.

Doesn't matter how pretty your game is, if you can't tell a good story or allow me to immerse myself in the game, I just don't really care anymore.


Prettiness has been a selling point in games since Pong, and while "gamer" sites reviews aren't typically worth the electrons they printed with, the [shipping] screenshots tend to be real.  You at least have some idea what you are getting.  Oddly enough, you wouldn't believe how long that the stated wisdom was that "back in the day graphics wasn't so important" and "prettiness is everything" (this corresponded roughly to your description of when prettiness mattered.  Actually, prettiness was amazingly important and took up almost all programming time.  There just was only so much you could do to push the hardware that far.  I'd say that the importance of graphics has dropped steadily since the dawn of 3D accelerators, its just now that the cost is so sky high that you should start to see budgeting changes that cut the artist and shading coders hours or at least just focus more on gameplay.

Also your picture, typical to polygon examples, completely ignores texturing.  Ignoring texturing is important because otherwise people would have trouble seeing a difference after something like 600 polys.  It was a low trick when nvidia did it way back when they introduced hardware T&L and it still is a low trick (also the 60 poly surface makes no sense: you might get that if you simply kludged the 6000 poly model, but you would be more likely to just throw together something that looks like a lego minifig and texture the face on it.  Also, why 60, 600, 6000?  Did it just fit the data they wanted to show?
 
2013-05-17 01:01:18 PM
I remember hearing that modeling a car in Gran Turismo 4 could be done in a day, but that the same feat at the level of GT5 could take weeks. Apparently that's why it took forever to be released. Does all of this mean that GT6 won't come out until 2020?
 
2013-05-17 01:02:37 PM

Flakeloaf: Wade_Wilson: I swear, all would be forgiven if they would just have some damn backwards compatibility. I love my PS3, but hate the fact that the only way I can play PS2 games on it is if I buy them from the PSN Store.

If the hardware can emulate those games just fine, and can play the type of discs they come on (DVDs), then what's the farkin' problem?!

Seriously, someone tell me why this is apparently impossible.

Most likely due to Stupid Programmer Tricks. The games may have used compatibility workarounds to run on PS2 hardware that aren't accurately emulated, or can only be emulated in a computationally expensive way. Also the licensing for those games may have expired, which means they can't be republished in another form.


A whole lot of this. All the PC master race members in here biatching about how under powered the PS4 are completely correct and utterly wrong at the same time.

Consoles are uni-taskers and games made for those consoles are tweaked to tease out every ounce of power that they have. This is why end of life games on consoles are so much better than to release titles. Some of the 'tweaks' are more accurately called 'tricks' or even 'cheats' and are not easy to emulate at all.

The PS4 hardware is probably powerful enough to emulate the PSX and PS2 and maybe even the PS3 (I doubt it) but it's not a small challenge to write a good emulator that's going to work reliably and what with being in the middle of a major hardware roll out Sony's programmers are all probably pretty busy with making sure that the PS4 actually plays PS4 games properly. Sony is much more interested in the consumers buying new games to stop and worry about the people who want to play old games and most likely already own hardware that is fully capable of running it.

Sony still sucks but them deciding not to include backwards compatibility is probably a good thing for PS4 buyers.

/can you imagine trying to play test even a fraction of the existing PSX PS2 and PS3 games?
//the PS8 would be out before they even hit 10%
 
2013-05-17 01:03:34 PM
Is this the thread where the PC Gaming master race tells us how stupid console gamers are because maybe, just maybe there are people out there that don't want to spend $2000 on a rig and constantly update drivers just to have some fun?

/If you want to spend a ton of your PC.  By all means enjoy yourself.
//But some of us have careers and when we get home the last thing we want to do is work to get a game to run well.
 
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