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(NPR)   Other than reactionary gun nuts stockpiling because the NRA instilled within them a fear of President Obama "restricting their guns," is there another reason the US has an ammunition shortage?   (npr.org) divider line 291
    More: Interesting, NRA, President Obama, ammunition shortage, ammunition  
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11789 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 06:10:06 PM

mrmopar5287: As someone who has stocked up on ammunition in the past 5 months (but not outrageous, prepper amounts) I can give you my simple take on things.

There are more than a few of us out here that know our economy is screwed because we will eventually run out of other people's money to spend.  When that time comes, the food stamps and other welfare checks are going to stop coming to the people who have been too lazy or otherwise unable to take care of themselves.  "Zombie Apocalypse" is nothing more than a metaphor that translates into millions of Americans wandering around looking for food.  When the looting and pillaging starts to become a problem I plan on being able to defend against others who try to steal from me, nothing more than that.


If it gets to that point you need to watch your cherry ass for water, not food.  Although, given the location listed in your profile it might not be an issue if you have a rain barrel.

Out here in the desert southwest, the water(not just "clean" water, but any water at all) will run out WAY before the canned goods.


but of course if that kind of thing occurs, we're all so farked none of the hoarding matters.  Aunty Entity will be coming for us all, and She won't be giving a Fair Deal, no matter how many guns you've got.


/Beyond Thunderdome was a documentary.
 
2013-05-17 06:13:07 PM
There's an economic theory that says price gouging prevents hoarding.

Might be some truth to that.
 
2013-05-17 06:19:02 PM

JungleBoogie: There's an economic theory that says price gouging prevents hoarding.

Might be some truth to that.


makes sense, unless one person/entity has the bulk of the wealth.
 
2013-05-17 07:09:12 PM

orclover: Haven't seen ammo on the shelves (other than shotgun shells) in months at sport stores I frequent.  Been shooting every other week and I am down to a few hundred rounds of .22lr.  The range I frequent was selling reloads of .22 for $1 per 10 shells.  And they smirked a bit when they told me, they are really really getting off on this.  Right now if you can meet the delivery truck at the store you can make about $40 on average off a $15 box of shells, or more by reselling it on gunbroker or one of the other sites.  It's pretty farking crazy.  The ammo manufacturers are too farking scared of what laws may or may not be passed to ramp up production to meet demand.  Eventually they will and this will pass.  Until then, target shooting has gotten farking expensive.


Reloads of .22 LR? How does that work? The primer is built into the manufacturing process with rimfire rounds; you can't reload them. That's why it's such a biatch trying to find .41 short rimfire for old derringers. Some manufacturer will run off a bunch every 10-20 years, and that's all the supply there's ever going to be.
 
2013-05-17 07:19:11 PM

Sgt.Zim: Damn good thing I reload. Of course, primers and component bullets are nearly as scarce as loaded ammo right now.


You can reload primers with strike anywhere matches.
 
2013-05-17 07:23:37 PM
I just ran the numbers last night and I'm shooting 12-15,000 rounds of live fire a year in various calibers, but mostly .22.

If CCI SV and Eley Sport continue to be made of unobtanium, this could get to be a problem. I'm OK on match ammo, but training ammo goes more quickly. At least CMP is saying they might be shipping Aguila by October.

Surplus Ammo had CCI SV in stock the other day - $45 for a box of 100. Nuts.
 
2013-05-17 07:29:03 PM

Sgt.Zim: dittybopper: nw_inferno: I've seen some people machine grooves into the pin with a dremel or something but that's seems like too much trouble, plus you'd have to reblue.

I too have seen that done, and it does make a difference.

After that, put a little *more* grease on the pin...

Something I do during matches (again, cartridges, but it's a throwback to the cap 'n ball days) is smear a wad of grease over each of the chamber mouths (if you're using real black; no need with the subs). The added lube helps keep the fouling soft, plus it *might* help prevent chain-fires.


Yep.

Actually, full size bullets are what actually prevents chain-fires.  What the lube over the bullets does is keep the fouling soft.
 
2013-05-17 07:32:05 PM

dittybopper: what happened to Jim Zumbo when he called AR-15's "terrorist rifles",


I looked that up.  I can understand why people are pissed at him for his comment.  I've got a few thoughts on it.
1. "AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters" - Historically military and hunting firearms have developed in parallel, with hunting following the military after rifling became common.  Consider that hunters are more likely to be military and ex-military.  They're familiar with the AR line.  The AK line is notoriously reliable and CHEAP.  The AR lines are more expensive, but still relatively easy for individuals to clean, maintain, modify, and equip(scopes and such).
2.  "They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers." - Is he so divorced from gun culture that he doesn't recognize that a rifle that is a 'tackdriver' is one that excels at accuracy and reliability?  The idea being that a professional that uses a tack driver isn't going to accept an unreliable or inaccurate device.
3. "Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. " - My impression on this is pure elitist, and has no humility.
4. "I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles." - AR != assault rifle, which is a select fire weapon.  Besides, leave it in semi and the average M-4 would be an excellent gopher gun.
5. I own multiple rifles.  My AR is the cheapest short of the .22 to fire, and if I wanted to it's cheaper to obtain a conversion kit than to buy another.  I can change the caliber simply by swapping the upper, change out optics with a couple hand screws in seconds, as opposed to half an hour with fine point screw drivers, hex wrenches, and such.  It's fun to fire.
 There is a fairly large subset of gun owners who just *LOVE* to "knife perceived traitors in the back", so a gun store that relies on repeat customers has to tread lightly for fear of being perceived as a traitor by a large number of their customers.  It's not like a gas station or a supermarket.

You have a good point here.  Shooters tend to talk to each other, and can take firearm stuff a lot more seriously than most manufacturers ever see.
 
2013-05-17 07:44:36 PM
Just remember, if a violent criminal rapes and murders a member of your family, because those opposed to a sensible death penalty have made it so hard and time consuming that it could take 20 years for the state to off the SOB, that you can, if you catch them in the act, or hopefully *before* they commit the act, send them to Hell as judge, jury and executioner.

Just because you have the God or natural-given, not government given, right to have a gun and use it to defend your person and the lives of your loved ones.

And you'll also be a good citizen if you do so, because you will prevent the rapist-murderer from doing it again, to some other innocent person or people.  And the cost of trying and putting such a monster in prison for 20 years can run to about $2 million, you are saving the taxpayers money as well.

Bravo, and be sure to at least double-tap the beast, as the rest of us don't want to pay for his medical care, either.  And save your guilt for having to put down rabid dogs, for they deserve more sympathy.
 
2013-05-17 08:03:02 PM

Firethorn: dittybopper: what happened to Jim Zumbo when he called AR-15's "terrorist rifles",

I looked that up.  I can understand why people are pissed at him for his comment.


I snipped your comments, which I agree with for the most part.

The problem is that Jim Zumbo typifies Gun Culture 1.0.  Old Guard.  NRA before the Cincinnati Revolt.  Gun control is fine, so long as it's largely limited to brown people, which is how GCA '68 got passed.  That sort of thing.  It can be summed up by the typical restrictions on a New York State pistol permit:  "For Hunting and Target Shooting Only".

Problem is, we're not in Gun Culture 1.0 anymore  The Old Guard is dying out, it just doesn't know it yet.  Gun Culture 2.0 embraces the self-defense and anti-tyranny aspects of gun ownership.  It welcomes people of all color, and yes, even every sexual orientation*.  Look up "Pink Pistols".  Gun Culture isn't embarrassed to say "Hey, fark you, *WE* didn't hurt anybody, so why are you punishing *US*?".   It's more than willing to draw a line in the sand and say "No further".

*Except furries, of course.  Gotta draw the line *SOMEWHERE*, and you don't want to be walking next to some dude in a fur suit when you're out hunting.
 
2013-05-17 08:05:15 PM

dittybopper: Sgt.Zim: dittybopper: nw_inferno: I've seen some people machine grooves into the pin with a dremel or something but that's seems like too much trouble, plus you'd have to reblue.

I too have seen that done, and it does make a difference.

After that, put a little *more* grease on the pin...

Something I do during matches (again, cartridges, but it's a throwback to the cap 'n ball days) is smear a wad of grease over each of the chamber mouths (if you're using real black; no need with the subs). The added lube helps keep the fouling soft, plus it *might* help prevent chain-fires.

Yep.

Actually, full size bullets are what actually prevents chain-fires.  What the lube over the bullets does is keep the fouling soft.


Yep. You and I know that. Didn't want to confuse the new guy or any old wives that happened to be following the thread, thus the *might*.

The amount of flat wrong information that floats around BP shooting is staggering. I think it's a deliberate FUD campaign to keep others from having too much fun.

That smokeless stuff is a passing fad.
 
2013-05-17 08:06:20 PM

russsssman: Trying to use a witty headline while denying what the DHS has clearly done, is ignorant at best. Buying up over 1.6 billion rounds of 'Hollow Point' bullets and calling it 'for practice and target shooting for our nations security' is only something people that are uneducated about firearms, would believe.


Here's some good derp.  Sourceless, but if it's the one I remember, it was the total of several OPTION contracts.  Here's the deal:  The DHS doesn't know how much ammo it's going to need, how much money it'll have, what calibers, etc...  So it puts out a contract that, from what I remember, were things like 'up to 250k rounds of .45ACP, in 100 round lots'.  When you set the maximum you always 'reach for the sky', worst/best case scenario.  You never actually buy that much.  Besides that, there was lots of boilerplate to help ensure that they get good ammunition, of course.  Add up the dozen or so potential handgun calibers, the half dozen rifle, and 3 shotgun calibers and you're at 'over 5 million rounds!!!'.  Don't forget that these are 5 year contracts.

Oh, and on training.  USAF qualification course is 286 rounds, completed quarterly for police types.  So nearly 1200 rounds per officer per year on qualification training alone.

You aren't even allowed to fire hollow points at the vast majority of practice ranges in this country.

Citation please.  ALL of the ranges I've been at allow hollowpoints.  I know there are a few that require lead-free/frangible ammunition because their backstop isn't 'all that', but outside of New Jersey I'm not aware of any that ban it.

You have to use full metal jacket. Hollow points expand up to cause more internal damage which if used at a range, you're just going to destroy the backstop of the firing range. Full metal jackets just go right through and the lead is later collected easily as opposed to fragments of a hollow point.

Hollowpoints don't fragment any worse than FMJ do.  .223 FMJ, is notorious for fragmenting.  If it's 'going through the backstop' then it's not a backSTOP!

Also, in the quantities that they purchase at, FMJ isn't really any cheaper and the saying goes 'practice with what you're going to shoot'.  It's also easier to keep your carry and practice ammunition the same.

Frank N Stein: (expanding bullets violate the hague convention)


Which we never signed...  We just follow it voluntarily, and exemptions are spreading.  On base military police, for example, load HP ammo today.  Hollow points are authorized for police duties, which the coast guard is doing.

LadySusan: I wish more effort would be made to attempt to reduce the number of gun suicides (and men's rights guys...here's an issue to take on...it impacts men more than women) and would also vote for funding and efforts to reduce this.


I'd rather have policies to reduce suicides and violence period.  I think that concentrating on the 'gun' part will limit effectiveness.
 
2013-05-17 08:17:25 PM

russsssman: Trying to use a witty headline while denying what the DHS has clearly done, is ignorant at best. Buying up over 1.6 billion rounds of 'Hollow Point' bullets and calling it 'for practice and target shooting for our nations security' is only something people that are uneducated about firearms, would believe. You aren't even allowed to fire hollow points at the vast majority of practice ranges in this country. You have to use full metal jacket. Hollow points expand up to cause more internal damage which if used at a range, you're just going to destroy the backstop of the firing range. Full metal jackets just go right through and the lead is later collected easily as opposed to fragments of a hollow point. With all that 1st grade Common Sense info said.. There is no reason for DHS to have purchased that many hollow points... Ever..


I agree with you that it's unconvincing that all those rounds are for practice, but I have never been to a range that doesn't allow hollow points, and it definitely is a good idea to practice firing at least 100 rounds of your chosen hollow points at a range before betting your life on them, the recoil and trajectory between fmj and hp is a bit different
 
2013-05-17 08:20:15 PM

Sgt.Zim: dittybopper: Sgt.Zim: dittybopper: nw_inferno: I've seen some people machine grooves into the pin with a dremel or something but that's seems like too much trouble, plus you'd have to reblue.

I too have seen that done, and it does make a difference.

After that, put a little *more* grease on the pin...

Something I do during matches (again, cartridges, but it's a throwback to the cap 'n ball days) is smear a wad of grease over each of the chamber mouths (if you're using real black; no need with the subs). The added lube helps keep the fouling soft, plus it *might* help prevent chain-fires.

Yep.

Actually, full size bullets are what actually prevents chain-fires.  What the lube over the bullets does is keep the fouling soft.

Yep. You and I know that. Didn't want to confuse the new guy or any old wives that happened to be following the thread, thus the *might*.

The amount of flat wrong information that floats around BP shooting is staggering. I think it's a deliberate FUD campaign to keep others from having too much fun.

That smokeless stuff is a passing fad.


some fat bearded happy old man let me shoot his black powder rifle two years ago at our local range, and I've wanted one ever since.

What's a good one for a neophyte lady with short arms?  Is there a "junior" model available?
 
2013-05-17 08:22:06 PM

Sgt.Zim: stevetherobot: snocone: dittybopper: Frank N Stein: An ammo shortage for a police department wouldn't cause the officers to not carry a sidearm. He'd still have whatever he carried before, and with just as many rounds in the magazine or wheel. What it would do is reduce range and training time. So when it comes time for Officer Friendly to empty is magazine at a suspect, he'd be an even worse aim and endanger even more so any bystanders.

I don't know how you cant see that.

There are ways to maintain basic marksmanship proficiency fairly cheaply.  Nothing beats actual range time, but the police departments in general require so little range time I can't see it being a major issue.

It is an issue with the LAPD. Giving the village idiot a gun w/o adequate training and continuing proficiency practice needs to be criminalized.
A gun is a pinpoint weapon. Spraying rounds in the general direction of an assumed target is the sign of utter incompetency.

Ever heard of suppressing fire?

I sure hope someone has said this by now, but in {some large percentage} of civilian-involved gunfights (and, yes, Virginia, cops are civilians too), suppressing fire is not a valid tactic.


Since when? What kind of poorly-informed statement is that?
When I'm in a fight for my life, every damn tactic short of deliberately injuring innocent people is on the table. If I need to, I will gladly put my 20 round magazine to good use, then put in a 30 rounder to keep going if that's what I or my family needs to get to safety. Suppressive fire isn't just for advancing on the enemy - it's also useful for retreating.
And as for cops, they use SF all the fricking time. That's how you get "perp was hit 72 times" or "more than 500 rounds were fired during the standoff".
 
2013-05-17 08:23:47 PM

dittybopper: nw_inferno: I've found that in practice, the cylinder pin tends to stick at the slightest whim and the cylinders like to jam if you don't pull them out just right.

Grease the pin really, really good.  Then grease it a bit more.  Once you've done that, add a bit of grease to it.

Pulling out the cylinder and popping one in quickly is just a matter of muscle memory.  You've got to pop it in and rotate it along it's axis at the same time.


Maybe yours works a lot better than mine, but the cyclinder for my uberti 1861 remington takes quite a bit of lining up to get right. once it's in it's very nice though. i'm still afraid to shoot it.
 
2013-05-17 08:57:33 PM

Bonzo_1116: new_york_monty:
Spring piston powerplant (as long as the kid is strong enough to repeatedly cock the mainspring) so he never needs to worry about buying CO2 or high pressure air. A .22 caliber pellet gun will do a much better job for small game hunting than a .177. There is an excellent airgun blog written by Tom Gaylord (would link, but it's affiliated with a commercial airgun shop) that has a ton of helpful info. He also writes an airguns column for Shotgun News. I'm a big fan of RWS (Diana) airguns, but they tend to be pricy as they're German made. The newer Benjamin Sheridan and Crossman precharged pneumatics are supposed to be fantastic, but I've not handled one myself.

ooooOOOoooo.  They're big hippies, so they'll love the DIY of that.

Hippies that want kill their meat, the best kind of hippies.   Do they make that kind of thing in rifle style?

/and so green, no CO2 cartridges.  LOL
//I like the idea because I'm cheap, and will take pumping for free any day over paying for CO2 cartridges.


Yes. Most of the ones powerful enough to hunt small game with are rifles. There are one or two spring pistols that can take a squirrel, but they are really minimal for that and awfully expensive. For something cheap, Gamo builds a decent air rifle in the $100-300 range. The RWS-Dianas are beautiful, but they start closer to $300 and get close to $1,000 for the recoil-less top of the line model. And there's no "pumping" per se, you need to set the spring once for each shot, either by breaking the barrel back toward the trigger guard, or with a side- or under-lever.

The spring piston rifles really are perfect survival weapons. They're powerful enough to take small land animals and birds, require a drop or two of lubricant every few thousand rounds, and a spring will last for decades unless it's used hundreds of times a day for years on end.

The only trick with spring piston guns is (unless you have a recoil-less model) they are very hold-sensitive. For best results, let the rifle balance on the palm of your forward hand and recoil at will. If you try to strangle them, the barrel vibrates in different directions each time. If you let them float around, they can be very, very accurate. My RWS 54 will touch a quarter with every shot at 50 yards if I do my part.

And careful if you want to scope them; the powerful models are harder on scopes than a 12 gauge. The recoil happens in two directions and will rip the lenses right out of something built for firearms. Leapers makes a couple of extra-tough models that hold up to the abuse.
 
2013-05-17 09:05:14 PM

duenor: Sgt.Zim:
Ever heard of suppressing fire?

I sure hope someone has said this by now, but in {some large percentage} of civilian-involved gunfights (and, yes, Virginia, cops are civilians too), suppressing fire is not a valid tactic.

Since when? What kind of poorly-informed statement is that?
When I'm in a fight for my life, every damn tactic short of deliberately injuring innocent people is on the table. If I need to, I will gladly put my 20 round magazine to good use, then put in a 30 rounder to keep going if that's what I or my family needs to get to safety. Suppressive fire isn't just for advancing on the enemy - it's also useful for retreating.
And as for cops, they use SF all the fricking time. That's how you get "perp was hit 72 times" or "more than 500 rounds were fired during the standoff".


I didn't say the cops weren't using it.  I said that most of the time, it's not a valid tactic for civilians.

In any non-military shooting situation, you are (or, in a perfect world, should be, but we all know the "law" aren't) responsible for every bullet you send downrange.

In the context of the question I was answering (from my phone, which makes it hard to type coherently at times), my point was that blindly spraying as stevetherobot suggested was a really bad farking idea.  As someone else mentioned upthread, in order to be effective, suppressive fire needs to be directed; the point is to endanger the enemy so that he keeps his head down, not endanger every innocent in the neighborhood.  If your position is untenable, you're so pinned down that you need suppressive fire in order to break contact, and the cavalry ain't on their way, by all means do it and Odin be with you; if I could I'd be right there to cover you during the leapfrog.

Point is, the set of circumstances that make suppressive fire civilian-valid are pretty tight.  The item I was answering, i.e. spraying randomly and then trying the "I was laying down a base of fire" defense at the inevitable negligent homicide and wrongful death trials, was a completely other point, which you appear to have missed.
 
2013-05-17 09:09:45 PM

new_york_monty: . For something cheap, Gamo builds a decent air rifle in the $100-300 range. The RWS-Dianas are beautiful, but they start closer to $300 and get close to $1,000 for the recoil-less top of the line model. And there's no "pumping" per se, you need to set the spring once for each shot, either by breaking the barrel back toward the trigger guard, or with a side- or under-lever.

The spring piston rifles really are perfect survival weapons. They're powerful enough to take small land animals and birds, require a drop or two of lubricant every few thousand rounds, and a spring will last for decades unless it's used hundreds of times a day for years on end.

The only trick with spring piston guns is (unless you have a recoil-less model) they are very hold-sensitive. For best re ...



Tomorrow's gunshow mission: putting hands on  Gamo and Diana.

Thanks for the input!
 
2013-05-17 09:17:57 PM

Bonzo_1116: new_york_monty: . For something cheap, Gamo builds a decent air rifle in the $100-300 range. The RWS-Dianas are beautiful, but they start closer to $300 and get close to $1,000 for the recoil-less top of the line model. And there's no "pumping" per se, you need to set the spring once for each shot, either by breaking the barrel back toward the trigger guard, or with a side- or under-lever.

The spring piston rifles really are perfect survival weapons. They're powerful enough to take small land animals and birds, require a drop or two of lubricant every few thousand rounds, and a spring will last for decades unless it's used hundreds of times a day for years on end.

The only trick with spring piston guns is (unless you have a recoil-less model) they are very hold-sensitive. For best re ...


Tomorrow's gunshow mission: putting hands on  Gamo and Diana.

Thanks for the input!


Happy to help. I shoot firearms more than airguns, but in some ways airguns fascinate me more. For instance, the first weapon you could really call an "assault rifle" (next to its contemporary firearms) was an airgun:

upload.wikimedia.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle
 
2013-05-17 09:34:27 PM

duenor: dittybopper: nw_inferno: I've found that in practice, the cylinder pin tends to stick at the slightest whim and the cylinders like to jam if you don't pull them out just right.

Grease the pin really, really good.  Then grease it a bit more.  Once you've done that, add a bit of grease to it.

Pulling out the cylinder and popping one in quickly is just a matter of muscle memory.  You've got to pop it in and rotate it along it's axis at the same time.

Maybe yours works a lot better than mine, but the cyclinder for my uberti 1861 remington takes quite a bit of lining up to get right. once it's in it's very nice though. i'm still afraid to shoot it.


Yeah, my Pietta 1858 Remington is kinda finicky but like ditty was saying, you pretty much have to do a little rotate and slide maneuver (and it has to go out a certain side) and then it usually works.
Why are you afraid to shoot it? Just put a fraction of the normal powder charge in. That's the beauty of a muzzleloader; you can load as strong or light of a charge as you like. I didn't have an actual powder measure when I first started shooting mine so I looked up a rough conversion and used a 1/4 tsp. and worked my way up from there. The only thing to look out for is to not leave an air gap between the powder and the bullet (according to conventional wisdom it can cause the pressure to build up wrong and pop the chamber, although that may just be an old wives tale). I use lubed wads (basically a plug of greased felt) between the powder and the ball so it's not as much of an issue. If you're really worried, load up one chamber with a light load, rig the gun in a vise or something and fire it with dental floss or string.
 
2013-05-17 09:52:40 PM

Sgt.Zim: Damn good thing I reload. Of course, primers and component bullets are nearly as scarce as loaded ammo right now.


Of all things, primers are the biggest PITA right now. Powder is common enough that a backorder will be taken by some places and if you're fine with waiting, you can get it. But primers? Nobody wants to take backorders and all the auction places have them at about 3x cost.

I got a notice from Midway that 230gr .415 Hornady XTP bullets were in stock yesterday at 9:35AM. At 10:09 when I checked they were all sold. Luckily I already had enough and it was an old alert.
 
2013-05-17 10:48:09 PM

Mrbogey: Of all things, primers are the biggest PITA right now. Powder is common enough that a backorder will be taken by some places and if you're fine with waiting, you can get it. But primers? Nobody wants to take backorders and all the auction places have them at about 3x cost.


Hmm, in my neck of the woods, primers are scarce but can be found if you are patient.  Maybe it helps us that CCI is in-state. Standard Centerfire Powder on the other hand is non-existent.  You can find shotgun and 50BMGpowder, but nothing else.
 
2013-05-17 10:48:11 PM

Mrbogey: Sgt.Zim: Damn good thing I reload. Of course, primers and component bullets are nearly as scarce as loaded ammo right now.

Of all things, primers are the biggest PITA right now. Powder is common enough that a backorder will be taken by some places and if you're fine with waiting, you can get it. But primers? Nobody wants to take backorders and all the auction places have them at about 3x cost.


How to reload primers using strike-anywhere matches.

I can't personally attest to that method, but something to consider.
 
2013-05-17 10:57:02 PM
I think it's due to the Fark gun threads. Stop the gun threads, stop the ammo shortage.

/ I guess we won't have ammo for a while
 
2013-05-17 11:03:41 PM

dittybopper: I can't personally attest to that method, but something to consider.


For something that you can get for .15 each on gunbroker even now (0.03 each during normal times), I would stay as far away from that as i could.  I don't mind making my own bullets or forming brass from one caliber to another, I do draw the line here.  That is some volatile stuff.
 
2013-05-17 11:41:31 PM
The Walmart by me has no bullets whatsoever.
Cheaper than Dirt has my AK-47 ammo but it went from 5.00 a box a year ago to 13.20 now
 
2013-05-18 12:07:04 AM

HeadLever: dittybopper: I can't personally attest to that method, but something to consider.

For something that you can get for .15 each on gunbroker even now (0.03 each during normal times), I would stay as far away from that as i could.  I don't mind making my own bullets or forming brass from one caliber to another, I do draw the line here.  That is some volatile stuff.


Meh.  I'd do it if I needed to.

Point is, it's something you can do when you can't get the stuff to reload.
 
2013-05-18 12:33:00 AM

dittybopper: Mrbogey: Sgt.Zim: Damn good thing I reload. Of course, primers and component bullets are nearly as scarce as loaded ammo right now.

Of all things, primers are the biggest PITA right now. Powder is common enough that a backorder will be taken by some places and if you're fine with waiting, you can get it. But primers? Nobody wants to take backorders and all the auction places have them at about 3x cost.

How to reload primers using strike-anywhere matches.

I can't personally attest to that method, but something to consider.


The only way I would do that was if Lord Humongus was outside my house and primers were the one thing I lacked. Not that I doubt it works, but I'd rather play safe as long as I can.

HeadLever: Hmm, in my neck of the woods, primers are scarce but can be found if you are patient. Maybe it helps us that CCI is in-state. Standard Centerfire Powder on the other hand is non-existent. You can find shotgun and 50BMGpowder, but nothing else.


http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

They seem to have a good sporadic supply. Got 2 pounds of Unique last month. Took a few weeks from order to arrival. It's just long to get shipped. Just check it every day. Stocks seem to be getting scarcer as of late.

All I want is a 8lb tub of CFE223 to give it a try.
 
2013-05-18 12:48:08 AM

dittybopper: Meh.  I'd do it if I needed to.


Yeah, I can see that, though I am still a long ways from the 'need' part still.  If it gets to a buck a primer, though, I might even attempt it.
 
2013-05-18 12:52:07 AM

Mrbogey: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

They seem to have a good sporadic supply. Got 2 pounds of Unique last month. Took a few weeks from order to arrival. It's just long to get shipped. Just check it every day. Stocks seem to be getting scarcer as of late.

All I want is a 8lb tub of CFE223 to give it a try.


Lol, I have been watching Powervalley like a hawk.  Never have been able to find what I need (H4198 or Re7).  Have heard good things about CFE223, though and I might have to give it a try in my 204 after my 8 pounds of Benchmark runs out.
 
2013-05-18 01:11:33 AM

sxacho: HoustonNick: No, but unlike you apparently, I do not view people as mere numbers.

And you still didn't answer my questions.  Would the death of an innocent be the best use of your tax dollars EVAR?

Good lord. I don't even have a dog in this fight, but I can see that you are refusing or unable to comprehend the answer that was previously given. He answered your question pretty clearly above.


This.

 I don't even agree with his stance, and this method of reducing the question bit by bit til it means something ridiculous, for no other reason than to try to prove that, under some obscure circumstance his generalized opinion that he threw out on fark might possibly be inaccurate, is pissing even me off.
 
2013-05-18 07:02:04 AM

ginkor: Just remember, if a violent criminal rapes and murders a member of your family, because those opposed to a sensible death penalty have made it so hard and time consuming that it could take 20 years for the state to off the SOB, that you can, if you catch them in the act, or hopefully *before* they commit the act, send them to Hell as judge, jury and executioner.

Just because you have the God or natural-given, not government given, right to have a gun and use it to defend your person and the lives of your loved ones.

And you'll also be a good citizen if you do so, because you will prevent the rapist-murderer from doing it again, to some other innocent person or people.  And the cost of trying and putting such a monster in prison for 20 years can run to about $2 million, you are saving the taxpayers money as well.

Bravo, and be sure to at least double-tap the beast, as the rest of us don't want to pay for his medical care, either.  And save your guilt for having to put down rabid dogs, for they deserve more sympathy.


I'm pro-gun, but if the death penalty deterred crimes, Texas would have the lowest crime rate in the US.

It doesn't.
 
2013-05-18 07:21:36 AM

HeadLever: dittybopper: Meh.  I'd do it if I needed to.

Yeah, I can see that, though I am still a long ways from the 'need' part still.  If it gets to a buck a primer, though, I might even attempt it.


Out here in the boonies its gotten hard to find much of anything.
If push comes to shove then refilled primers and a .224 bullet mold would go a long way.
 
2013-05-18 10:25:17 AM
OK, what the fark?  I've posted a couple of replies and neither of them have shown up.
 
2013-05-18 10:27:22 AM
So that one did.

Anyway, what I was saying to Mrbogey is that if you wait to learn how to do it until Lord Humongus is outside your house, you waited too long.

If you use eye protection, leather gloves, and do it in small batches away from any flammable material, I don't see any major safety hazards.
 
2013-05-18 11:18:55 AM

PunGent: I'm pro-gun, but if the death penalty deterred crimes, Texas would have the lowest crime rate in the US.


It doesn't when the state does it, which is inefficient.  But it deters the heck out of criminals when they get killed.  Importantly, gun liberty is starting to change criminal behavior, in that they are now so afraid of concealed carry that they are initiating their attacks on their victims with "sucker punches", to disable or kill them first, before robbing them.  But this is self defeating.
 
2013-05-18 03:08:48 PM

PunGent: I'm pro-gun, but if the death penalty deterred crimes, Texas would have the lowest crime rate in the US.


Or you could realize that crime rates depend upon numerous factors that drown any effects of the death penalty in the noise.  For one, the only crimes that the DP would even start to deter would be murder, and even in Texas most murderers are not eligible for the DP.  Even Texas saves it for 'extra-special' murders.

Personally, I support keeping the option around for two reasons:
1.  The person is just too dangerous to keep around.  My determining factor for this is 'Killed 3 or more people', and 3 is borderline...  The actual guidelines would end up filling a book.
2.  What they did is just that bad.  Deliberate torture in addition to murder.

Roughly speaking, I'd keep the DP as a 1% option.  If you try 10 murderers a year for 40 years, you should only encounter 4 DP cases.

ginkor: It doesn't when the state does it, which is inefficient. But it deters the heck out of criminals when they get killed. Importantly, gun liberty is starting to change criminal behavior, in that they are now so afraid of concealed carry that they are initiating their attacks on their victims with "sucker punches", to disable or kill them first, before robbing them. But this is self defeating.


Do you have some sort of citation that says this is actually happening?  Good point on that it's the perception of threat from CCW, not the actual threat of CCW'ers, who are still both rare and generally not encountering criminals* because they don't travel in the same zones.

*For those outside the USA, the whole country is NOT a hotbed of crime; for most stats we're actually comparable to Europe.  However something like 90% of our crime is concentrated in 10% of our population areas.  There are spots where you could be perfectly safe, walk one block and be in a 'danger zone' due to criminal activity, then walk another in a straight line and be safe again.  For example, with violent crime if you can figure out two gang's HQ's, if they're of equal power there will be a conflict zone midway between them where violence is OOM's higher.
 
2013-05-18 03:50:50 PM
and the rat IS trying to take guns. JUST AS PREDICTED, even though gun violence is at a low.
 
2013-05-18 08:10:07 PM
I've seen the Gunbroker site mentioned a few times here already.  Yeah, the ammo's out there; there's just a entire group of people who have set themselves up as additional middlemen between the retailers and the end users.

Go on Gunbroker and look at the completed auctions for CCI Mini Mag .22lr ammo.  There a bunch of individual auctions for 5,000 round, 10,000 round, and even 15,000 round lots.  That means that in a single auction, there's more .22lr trading hands than I've shot in my entire life.  Meanwhile, I haven't seen any on the shelves for almost six months.
 
2013-05-18 09:49:15 PM

jbar19: and the rat president IS trying to take guns. JUST AS PREDICTED, even though gun violence is at a low.


FTFY.  I'm no fan of the president, but he *IS* the president.
 
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