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(NPR)   Other than reactionary gun nuts stockpiling because the NRA instilled within them a fear of President Obama "restricting their guns," is there another reason the US has an ammunition shortage?   (npr.org ) divider line 291
    More: Interesting, NRA, President Obama, ammunition shortage, ammunition  
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11804 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2013 at 9:59 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 10:50:45 AM  

cig-mkr: So China hasn't picked up on this ? Don't know if I would buy Chinese ammo anyway.


I've put steel cased Russian ammo through one of my guns with no ill effects. But the gun in question was a Walther PPQ and she's not picky about food because muh german engineering and whatnot.
 
2013-05-17 10:52:06 AM  

Frank N Stein: There's that. But I doubt in the context of civilian law enforcement that suppressing fire is much needed or warranted


Tell that to those Mexican chicks the LAPD lit up like Christmas. Without even killing one, I might add.
 
2013-05-17 10:52:40 AM  

dittybopper: HoustonNick: dittybopper:

So innocents being killed is a numbers game to you?  I'm not sure what you mean by "actual net negative value" when you are talking about people dying.  More bad guys then good?

Just to be clear, two simple questions:

1.   Are you happy if an innocent (suspect, victim, cop) is killed because of the scarcity?
2.   Would that be the best use of your tax dollars EVAR?

Could it be any clearer that "If on balance more innocents live than die, than yes"?

Or are you innumerate?

PSSSST:

he's trying to get you to say that you love it so much when innocent people die and bad guys run rampant.  We can all go home if you just say it.
 
2013-05-17 10:56:32 AM  

stevetherobot: Ever heard of suppressing fire?


Suppressive fire still needs to be precise, well-aimed fire. You don't throw up a wall of lead, when a single shot towards the head will do. This is infantry 101 stuff- the bullet that just makes noise isn't living up to its full potential.

As the Marines say, "My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make.We know that it is the hits that count."
 
2013-05-17 10:56:39 AM  

Jackson Herring: I've been told that the national weather service has purchased in excess of seventy trillion rounds of hollow-point armor piercing incindiery anti-personnel ammunition, so this is probably to blame


Militant Global Warming Activists.
 
2013-05-17 10:57:47 AM  

Oblio13: catusr: I have 40 9mm bullets in my ammo box.  For me, that is a five year supply.  I shoot off a single magazine (8 bullets) once a year.  I think that's good enough to stay familiar with the pistol.  I sure hope this ammo shortage is all over with by 2018, because I'll be wanting to buy a box of ammo by then.

If I get into a gunfight, I hope it's with you.


I was thinking the same thing; only 8 rounds a year? We only go to the range a few times a year (expensive hobby right now, unfortunately), but we still shoot around 100 rounds every time we go. It's basically an expensive paper weight if you don't practice with it.
 
2013-05-17 10:57:55 AM  

doglover: Frank N Stein: There's that. But I doubt in the context of civilian law enforcement that suppressing fire is much needed or warranted

Tell that to those Mexican chicks the LAPD lit up like Christmas. Without even killing one, I might add.


oi39.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-17 10:58:30 AM  

Lucky LaRue: HoustonNick: Don't forget that DHS purchased 1.6 Billion rounds.  Regardless of whether those purchases were or were not justified, the purchases did reduce the available ammunition supply.

I hope it was for the purpose of causing scarcity - that would be the best use of my tax dollars EVAR.


To infringe on an enumerated right?
 
2013-05-17 10:58:36 AM  

madgonad: However, in normal capitalism if the market really did expand that much there would be massive new investment in ammunition production. Businesses would be scrambling to get loans to build or expand new plants to capitalize on that demand. That didn't happen. Some plants extended shifts to increase production, but that isn't an investment. Nobody is investing more money to meet this demand.


Actually, yes they are.

Hornady even has an FAQ about how they've been expanding their manufacturing capacity.

Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.

The problem is that ammunition demand was pretty much at the capacity of the manufacturers to provide it for years, and when the current rush for ammo happened, supply exceeded demand.

The manufacturers are working to correct that, but it's going to take time to add the capacity.
 
2013-05-17 10:59:58 AM  
GT has .22LR AMMO! 1 box of any ammo per person max.  .22lr ammo in 500 round box (brick) selling for...........$40 bucks.  Same price as the auction scalpers online.   Thats maybe 2 days of plinking.  Hooooleeeeeeshiat.


Im done, i'm farking done, farkit, I quit.  My kids too small to be doing skeet shooting with an 870 home defense shotgun and target shooting juts turned into a rich mans sport.  Ironically black powder is still affordable so we could go blow up trashcans if I didn't mind committing felony's and teaching him how to be an anarchist.

Hmmm leads still cheap.  Black powder is still cheap.   Anybody got a musket or old blackpowder sixshooter they wanna sell cheap?  No DL needed since its archaic.  EIP.

/TAO!
assets.diylol.com
 
2013-05-17 11:00:52 AM  
Sigh.  Yes, some nutters stock up on ammunition because they are a bunch of paranoid conspiracy morans.  A lot of shooters and hunters, however, stock up when ammunition goes on sale BECAUSE IT SAVES THEM MONEY!
 
2013-05-17 11:01:55 AM  

dittybopper


The problem is that ammunition demand was pretty much at the capacity of the manufacturers to provide it for years, and when the current rush for ammo happened, supply exceeded demand demand exceeded supply.


We knew what you meant - just a polite correction before some jackarse rolls in with a derptastic correction.
 
2013-05-17 11:02:05 AM  

teenytinycornteeth: PSSSST: he's trying to get you to say that you love it so much when innocent people die and bad guys run rampant.  We can all go home if you just say it.


Ah, but I'm more stubborn than he is.
 
2013-05-17 11:02:50 AM  

Frank N Stein: doglover: Frank N Stein: There's that. But I doubt in the context of civilian law enforcement that suppressing fire is much needed or warranted

Tell that to those Mexican chicks the LAPD lit up like Christmas. Without even killing one, I might add.

[oi39.tinypic.com image 600x392]


Just what did those women think they were doing delivering newspapers at that time of the morning?
 
2013-05-17 11:03:11 AM  

dittybopper: Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.


Yay! so I can jam up my guns even more!

No seriously they make the most crappy .22lr ammo I have ever seen in my life.
 
2013-05-17 11:03:24 AM  
I don't know what shortage you're talking about.

/Arizona
 
2013-05-17 11:03:46 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: dittybopper

The problem is that ammunition demand was pretty much at the capacity of the manufacturers to provide it for years, and when the current rush for ammo happened, supply exceeded demand demand exceeded supply.


We knew what you meant - just a polite correction before some jackarse rolls in with a derptastic correction.


Yeah, a *DUH* moment on my part.

In my defense, the distaffbopper was badgering me about a faucet knob while I was typing it.
 
2013-05-17 11:04:30 AM  

orclover: dittybopper: Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.

Yay! so I can jam up my guns even more!

No seriously they make the most crappy .22lr ammo I have ever seen in my life.


Do you own a 10/22?
 
2013-05-17 11:06:04 AM  
Go through about 500 .22LR every time I go to the range. Just fun plinking.
Costs about $20. Not going to be shooting 500 rounds through my 9mm, 'cause that would cost too much, and yeah, just sight in the deer rifle with a few rounds and put that away. It's the crazy hoarders that are causing this and I wish they would go away for a while and let the market settle back down again...
 
2013-05-17 11:07:54 AM  

orclover: dittybopper: Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.

Yay! so I can jam up my guns even more!

No seriously they make the most crappy .22lr ammo I have ever seen in my life.


Personally, when I shot modern ammo, I preferred Federal Premium.  Oh, look, they're increasing capacity too:

WHY CAN'T YOU JUST MAKE MORE AMMUNITION?Our facilities operate 24-hours a day. We are continually making process improvements to increase our efficiency and investing in capital and personnel where we have sustained demand. We are bringing additional capacity online again this year.
 
2013-05-17 11:09:01 AM  
It's speculators.   People are buying ammo to make money of it by reselling at high prices.   It's like the comic book thing back in the 80s and early 90s.   People with no real interest in the product see an opportunity to profit, so they start buying.   That causes the supply to be less for the regular customer, which causes panic buying, which further raises prices, which increases profits for speculators.   So MORE speculators jump in.

Somewhere down the line the bubble will burst and a bunch of people are going to be stuck with boxes of ammo they paid a lot of money for, but since they are speculators they have no use for that ammo.  So the market is going to get flooded with cheap ammo as they attempt to dump it all.
 
2013-05-17 11:10:08 AM  

Gonz: HoustonNick: FYI, its not like gun owners made up what Obama, Biden, Feinstein, Bloomberg, et al were doing, they were in fact trying to get new gun ban legislation passed. That caused gun owners to react before the legislation could get passed.

Actually, the only gun action Obama took in his entire first term was expanding concealed-carry rights on public land to pass a bill that was a cornerstone of his economic and consumer protection reformafter first supporting a judge's decision to issue an injunction banning the practice and not appealing it.

From the moment the 2008 election was decided, gun stores were going with a "stock up while you can, before the scary gun-grabber grabs your guns!" message. And why wouldn't they? It's a proven effective marketing scheme. I saw it work during the Clinton years, I saw a gun store in Tennessee (and I thought this was brilliant) with a "Don't trust Florida" message during the 2000 recount, and I saw it work when the Democrats took control of Congress in 2006. At all these points in time, the mere fact that Democrats had political influence was reason enough for gun stores to push the "they're a-gonna take yer guns!" marketing message, and it apparently proved effective to its target audience.

There's a certain segment of America that is just really susceptible to having guns sold to them in this manner. "Act now, before the politicians repeal the Second Amendment" is an easy way to get them to respond like Pavlov's dogs.


FTFY. We don't even have to touch on his attempts in his 2nd term.
 
2013-05-17 11:13:40 AM  
Cabela's had bulk Winchester .22 (525 count) on sale last summer for $17 a box.  I got six boxes.  I've gone through maybe two.  If I wanted to I could go on gunbroker or armslist and sell them for upwards of $40 a box.  My local range was selling 50 round boxes of .22 for $6.00.  It was Aguila, which is generally a lot nicer than Winchester, but that would work out to $60.00 for 500 rounds.  No .22 should cost that much.

My LGS is fairly well-stocked with everything, 9mm, 5.56, 7.62, .308 (Remington, $19 a box, which is not nearly as inflated as the other calibers, that's only a few bucks off of pre-panic pricing).  But these assholes are selling American Eagle 5.56 for $15 a box, and shiatty Russian steel-cased 7.62 for $13 a box (the same price as the brass-cased stuff).  Needless to say, I won't be buying any ammunition from them ever again.
 
2013-05-17 11:14:05 AM  

Gonz: Actually, the only gun action Obama took in his entire first term was expanding concealed-carry rights on public land.


Bzzt.  Wrong.
 
2013-05-17 11:14:57 AM  

Birnone: It's speculators.   People are buying ammo to make money of it by reselling at high prices.


More like hoarders.
 
2013-05-17 11:15:59 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: American Taliban.
They loves them some guns and pickups and Jesus.


I live with my mom, barely worth commenting on.
 
2013-05-17 11:16:04 AM  

Frank N Stein: orclover: dittybopper: Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.

Yay! so I can jam up my guns even more!

No seriously they make the most crappy .22lr ammo I have ever seen in my life.

Do you own a 10/22?


I wish I had one.  I do have an old sears 19-0-something lever action single shot rifle and a ruger 22/45 plinker.  A 10/22 would be awesome :(

dittybopper: WHY CAN'T YOU JUST MAKE MORE AMMUNITION?Our facilities operate 24-hours a day. We are continually making process improvements to increase our efficiency and investing in capital and personnel where we have sustained demand. We are bringing additional capacity online again this year.


I have always wanted to fire black powder (I mean other than home made "firecrackers").  Yer doin it right son.
 
2013-05-17 11:16:09 AM  

stevetherobot: Are you saying that you would be fine with 10 innocent people dying if 5 innocent lives are saved?


It depends on the situation.  Men are not potatoes.
 
2013-05-17 11:16:47 AM  

Fark It: No .22 should cost that much.


Here about 3 weeks ago, CCI Mini Mags are going for abut $120 for 500 rounds on Gunbroker.  That has come down to about $75 here recently.
 
2013-05-17 11:18:37 AM  

dittybopper: Birnone: It's speculators.   People are buying ammo to make money of it by reselling at high prices.

More like hoarders.


Yeah, if it were speculators, the commodity would eventually find its way back to the market.  For the hoarders, it is time to forget about it because it is gone until the estate sale.
 
2013-05-17 11:19:22 AM  
There is also a large number of new gun owners. I personally know several. After Newtown, a lot of people who were on the fence about buying a gun bought one. All of those people who bought guns are going to need ammo therefore compounding the problem.
 
2013-05-17 11:20:16 AM  

dittybopper: Birnone: It's speculators.   People are buying ammo to make money of it by reselling at high prices.

More like hoarders.


Why not both?
 
2013-05-17 11:20:20 AM  

HeadLever: Fark It: No .22 should cost that much.

Here about 3 weeks ago, CCI Mini Mags are going for abut $120 for 500 rounds on Gunbroker.  That has come down to about $75 here recently.


Holy shiat.  This keeps up and I will need to buy my son a bow.

/honestly he should have one anyways, the rest of us do.
 
2013-05-17 11:20:39 AM  
Subby's headline fails, since article has nothing to do with the CAUSE of the shortage, but rather the economics (or lack thereof) of prices remaining stable during the shortage.

When the commodity becomes scarce then as a seller you can do one of three things 1) ignore it; 2) raise prices to reduce consumption; or 3) ration sales to reduce consumption.

Apparently the store-front businesses don't want to do #2 because they think their customers will brand them as thieves, traitors, and evil.  Since their ammo customers belong to a segment of society that has proven itself irrational, vindictive and incapable of understanding market forces numerous times already I sort of understand that.  So the smart stores are doing #3.  The much smarter stores should be emptying their own shelves and re-selling it at TRUE market rates (whatever people will pay) online through a front that won't be clearly tracked back to them.
 
2013-05-17 11:21:05 AM  
subby is retarded. the nra is not needed to scare people in to buying guns obamatarddid that.
 
2013-05-17 11:21:40 AM  

Aarontology: It's been me, guys.

I've been buying up as much ammunition as possible in order to make my Bullet Mountain theme park.


You bastard. If only I had some device capable of launching small projectiles at very high speeds so that I could stop your madness...
 
2013-05-17 11:22:15 AM  

dittybopper: Birnone: It's speculators.   People are buying ammo to make money of it by reselling at high prices.

More like hoarders.


I hope when production capacity finally matches up with demand and the prices bottom out the speculators and hoarders are going to have to panic-sell to cover rent all of the shiat they panic-bought.  Yes, some of them are coming after your guns, and gun owners in New York State and a couple of other places got shafted hard, but anybody who looked at the make-up of Congress and thought an AWB and significant, Brady/VPC-dream legislation was going to make it to Obama's desk is a moron.

Hopefully all of the casuals who thought "now might be a good time before it's too late" to get that first rifle and stretched their budgets accordingly will sell off in a couple of years.  It's not like anybody who panic-bought is able to get nearly enough ammunition for range-time anyway.
 
2013-05-17 11:22:44 AM  

dittybopper: madgonad: However, in normal capitalism if the market really did expand that much there would be massive new investment in ammunition production. Businesses would be scrambling to get loans to build or expand new plants to capitalize on that demand. That didn't happen. Some plants extended shifts to increase production, but that isn't an investment. Nobody is investing more money to meet this demand.

Actually, yes they are.

Hornady even has an FAQ about how they've been expanding their manufacturing capacity.

Remington is expanding their ammo manufacturing at their plant in Arkansas, including the construction of a whole new building.

The problem is that ammunition demand was pretty much at the capacity of the manufacturers to provide it for years, and when the current rush for ammo happened, supply exceeded demand.

The manufacturers are working to correct that, but it's going to take time to add the capacity.


I don't know where you get your manufacturers, but where I get mine, they know the demand and plan for it. Then outside profiteering schemes and hidden political agendas take hold.
 
2013-05-17 11:23:11 AM  

orclover: This thread reminded me to start checking around for target rounds.  Dicks "lodge" manager said they have gotten almost nothing in as far as ammo except .40 cal and shotgun shells.  He recently talked with ammo reps at an NRA "meeting" and they claim they are producing 3x capacity and still cant begin to meet demand.  Hoarders could not possibly be buying up the excess ammo, they would have simply run out of room by now.  Calling academy next.


I know one guy, personally, who claims to have 40k of rifle rounds alone stockpiled.  And knowing this guy, I believe him.

There's a LOT of dingleberries stockpiling a lot of ammo.  And as others have pointed out, you also have speculative reselling stockpilers.
 
2013-05-17 11:24:02 AM  

HeadLever: Fark It: No .22 should cost that much.

Here about 3 weeks ago, CCI Mini Mags are going for abut $120 for 500 rounds on Gunbroker.  That has come down to about $75 here recently.


Bulk CCI should cost maybe half that (half of $75).  My LGS used to sell 100 rounds of CCI for $9.00, which at the time was inflated.
 
2013-05-17 11:26:01 AM  

orclover: Holy shiat. This keeps up and I will need to buy my son a bow.


Yeah, I have an excess of .22LR and pops was getting low during squirrel season.  You would have thought that he had the best birday ever when I gave him a couple hundred rounds.

/don't shoot .22LR much anymore
 
2013-05-17 11:26:10 AM  

redmid17: We don't even have to touch on his attempts in his 2nd term.


This.

I called it at least 2 years ago here on Fark (and possibly earlier), saying that Obama wouldn't make any major moves towards gun control until after the election.

I was right, wasn't I?

But "Sandy Hook!", some will say, to which I say the attempted assassination of a congresswoman and the attack on the theater in Aurora weren't enough?  No, even if Sandy Hook had happened in December 2011 instead of December 2012, he still wouldn't have touched the issue until after the election.

President Obama isn't stupid, after all.  He's a *POLITICIAN* (just like the guy in the office before him, and the guy before him, etc.).  He's going to weigh the pros and cons of each action based upon what it will do for him.  After the election, he didn't have to worry about the electoral consequences of going all gun control-ly.
 
2013-05-17 11:26:18 AM  
i970.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-17 11:29:03 AM  

HoustonNick: The other anomaly is that everyone, everywhere has shotgun shells - another product the Gov't isn't buying.


I'm seeing a localized shortage of shells, too.  Cabela's and Brownell's are backordered on more popular loads like 12 ga 7-1/2 bird, and the local big-box sporting goods store had maybe three boxes total.
 
2013-05-17 11:31:08 AM  
For the hell of it here's my meager inventory

200 rds - 30-06
20 rds - 9mm
20 rds - .44 mag

fark today's prices. They're already slowly climbing down. I'll wait a bit before shooting again.
 
2013-05-17 11:31:36 AM  

orclover: I have always wanted to fire black powder (I mean other than home made "firecrackers").  Yer doin it right son.


I was born with a flintlock in my hand:

img144.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-17 11:36:20 AM  

dittybopper: In my defense, the distaffbopper was badgering me about a faucet knob while I was typing it.


A shot of penicillin will clear that right up.
 
2013-05-17 11:37:16 AM  

orclover: HeadLever: Fark It: No .22 should cost that much.

Here about 3 weeks ago, CCI Mini Mags are going for abut $120 for 500 rounds on Gunbroker.  That has come down to about $75 here recently.

Holy shiat.  This keeps up and I will need to buy my son a bow.

/honestly he should have one anyways, the rest of us do.


You should.  I started the littlebopper on a bow when he was 4 or 5.
 
2013-05-17 11:37:26 AM  

Dr Dreidel: dittybopper: There is a fairly large subset of gun owners who just *LOVE* to "knife perceived traitors in the back", so a gun store that relies on repeat customers has to tread lightly for fear of being perceived as a traitor by a large number of their customers.

So you're admitting that gun owners, as a group, are reactionary nutbars?


So you're saying a lib that doesn't shop at Wal-Mart because they don't like the company's policies towards organized labor and international sweatshops are reactionary nutbars?
 
2013-05-17 11:39:18 AM  
Ammo prices are high.  Used to, you could get a brick of .22lr for around $20.  I went to a gun show to get a brick of .22lf and all the dealers were selling them for $80-$85/brick.  I was pretty shocked at the price.
 
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