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(Salon)   Media Matters sends out talking points defending Obama's DOJ obtaining AP phone logs so dumb and partisan that even Salon is forced to blush   (salon.com) divider line 171
    More: Amusing, Media Matters, U.S. state abbreviations, Obama Justice Department, DOJ, obama, Salon, David Brock, Jonathan Haidt  
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2630 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 May 2013 at 9:48 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 08:50:58 AM
Which distinguishes them, of course, from other talking points, which are normally non-partisan and rich with analytic detail.
 
2013-05-17 09:50:20 AM
It was an outright fishing expedition and the judge that allowed this needs to be gone. In fact, every judge should be asked to review this and fire the one's that fail the test.
 
2013-05-17 09:51:07 AM
This letter is all you need to know about this scandal.  It was legal, but contrary to the DOJ's own guidelines developed with media input to avoid this kind of power trip.
 
2013-05-17 09:59:53 AM
I guess since we're all the libbiest libs that ever libbed a lib, we're assumed to be defending this till our dying breaths?

/I mean, it's not like it's a talking point from FOX
 
2013-05-17 10:00:47 AM
This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.
 
2013-05-17 10:01:26 AM
Now the crap is craping crap.

/crap!
 
2013-05-17 10:02:42 AM
Yes, it's fatuous to try to pull the "because TERROR" blanket over everything.  I'm glad the right is finally coming to realize this.

/until they're back in power
 
2013-05-17 10:03:15 AM
This is why there's no liberal party in the US.  There's enough integrity on that side that it would be impossible to fund raise.
 
2013-05-17 10:03:22 AM

Citrate1007: This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.


inb4 the trolls and dittos start chanting "ONLY CUZ U GOT CAUGHT LOLOBAMABENGHAZIIRSAPBIGGESTSCANDALEVARZ"

But srsly, even though it's being called out and refuted, Media Matters should have scrutiny and ridicule heaped upon it at least as much as all the libbiest libs heap onto Foxnews and the like.
 
2013-05-17 10:03:39 AM
So, the guy who voted for immunity for those involved in the warrantless wiretaps doesn't care about the right to privacy? Colour me shocked.The press is only pissy because now it's happening to them instead of helpless individuals.
 
2013-05-17 10:04:03 AM

I_C_Weener: This letter is all you need to know about this scandal.  It was legal, but contrary to the DOJ's own guidelines developed with media input to avoid this kind of power trip.


Well no, that's not "all" you need to know. The DOJ wrote back explaining (within the usual limits of any comment about an ongoing investigation) why they did what they did. The media coalition letter seems more to be an argument from incredulity than anything else.
 
2013-05-17 10:09:40 AM
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-05-17 10:12:43 AM

PawisBetlog: Citrate1007: This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.

inb4 the trolls and dittos start chanting "ONLY CUZ U GOT CAUGHT LOLOBAMABENGHAZIIRSAPBIGGESTSCANDALEVARZ"

But srsly, even though it's being called out and refuted, Media Matters should have scrutiny and ridicule heaped upon it at least as much as all the libbiest libs heap onto Foxnews and the like.


Because Media Matters is a 24/7 cable news channel.  Because Media Matters and Fox News have equal influence.  Because Media Matters claims to report all of "the news."  Because Media Matters constantly stresses that they're "fair and balanced."  Because Media Matters claims that all other news outlets are biased lamestream driveby media, but they, the single largest news media organization, are different.  Pure.  Good.
American.  Because one of Media Matters' best-known talking heads has been boycotted by numerous advertisers because so many people have expressed disgust with him.  Because liberal politicians jump from the "I HATEZ ME SOME MEDIA" bandwagon to well-paying positions within Media Matters, where they leave behind all semblance of reasonable debate and instead simply regurgitate "ZOMG Republican Monster Scandal" talking points.
 
2013-05-17 10:15:49 AM
And of course, I see no link in this article to the actual talking points.

Am I missing something?
 
2013-05-17 10:16:38 AM

Citrate1007: This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.


I think Salon "blushed" because even they had to make some protest about the DOJ seizing the records of Journalists.

If not for that, they'd be defending it as well.
 
2013-05-17 10:18:06 AM
Join me, would you? We're going to take a trip back in time, to the summer of 2008. There may be some culture shock, as you see many people heading to and from their houses to their full-time jobs, and our president is from a minority group...

*doodle-doo doodle-doo doodle-doo*

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/110-2008/s191

// you may now return to now-time
 
2013-05-17 10:20:02 AM

un4gvn666: And of course, I see no link in this article to the actual talking points.

Am I missing something?


Nevermind, I was just being lazy. They're right here on the website.
 
2013-05-17 10:21:36 AM

un4gvn666: un4gvn666: And of course, I see no link in this article to the actual talking points.

Am I missing something?

Nevermind, I was just being lazy. They're right here on the website.


Also, upon reading them, I don't see what the BFD is.
 
2013-05-17 10:24:26 AM
I've not paid much attention to Media Matters in some time, but see them references frequently. I used to think well of David Brock. This stuff, though? Coming from him, of all people? Screw that guy.
 
2013-05-17 10:24:37 AM
...another "liberal" site heard from.

/Much like The Raw Story, Salon is barely left of center.  Glenn Greenwald has to baselessly call Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins "islamophobes" just to keep up his librul street cred.
 
2013-05-17 10:25:25 AM

un4gvn666: And of course, I see no link in this article to the actual talking points.

Am I missing something?


The DOJ's AP Investigation

Did Republicans in Congress who are now exploiting the situation to score political points oppose the media shield law that likely would have protected the Associated Press in this situation

I like that one.
 
2013-05-17 10:26:03 AM

Citrate1007: his is the primary difference between the right and left. The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.


You earnestly believe that "the left" does not repeat spin "until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth."?

Is it that you think the left doesn't spin, or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base, or both?
 
2013-05-17 10:31:29 AM
Media Matters is actually where most of the AP, Chris Matthews, Olbermann, Maddow and Jon Stewart get their talking points from.  Then Total Fark spits it out a day later.

Its funny when you hear montages of reporters from all over the country using the exact same language.
 
2013-05-17 10:33:18 AM

BojanglesPaladin: or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base


This is actually provably false.

The liberal base is statistically more informed and less prone to conspiracies than conservatives. This should be obvious to anyone at this point.

We're the people that actually realize Colbert is making fun of you.
 
2013-05-17 10:34:13 AM
BAWWWWWW
 
2013-05-17 10:34:48 AM
I've yet to see anyone ITT pointing out specifically what points in those talking points are false or irrelevant to the discussion, or how they are meant to obfuscate any understanding of the issue.

They seem like pretty reasonable points to me.
 
2013-05-17 10:36:36 AM

BojanglesPaladin: Citrate1007: his is the primary difference between the right and left. The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.

You earnestly believe that "the left" does not repeat spin "until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth."?

Is it that you think the left doesn't spin, or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base, or both?


The left does spin, and the left does have a dumbass base, but tell me what you have to stack up against:

1. Kerry swiftboating (by a candidate who was AWOL from a VIP-only no-combat unit)
2. Obama Kenyan Muslim
3. Obama in partnership with terrorist Bill Ayers to promote terrorism

One candidate derailed on pure lies.  Another survived pure lies, but that didn't stop the spin machine from pushing it well after the campaign was over.

So what stacks up against that?  Bush fabricated WMD evidence?  Bush spent more time on vacation than any other president?

How many Republicans, when polled, still believe that WMDs were found, that Saddam was connected to 9/11, that Kerry was a deserter, that Obama is not an American?

Now list your crackpot theories acribed to liberals, and how many, if polled, would still claim to believe them?
 
2013-05-17 10:38:52 AM
This proves the Democratic Party is imploding.
 
2013-05-17 10:52:16 AM

un4gvn666: BojanglesPaladin: or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base

This is actually provably false.

The liberal base is statistically more informed and less prone to conspiracies than conservatives. This should be obvious to anyone at this point.

We're the people that actually realize Colbert is making fun of you.


Yeah...less prone to conspiracies....like Trayvon Martin was murdered by white man....CIA sold crack in the hood....AIDS was created by govt to kill minoritirs....Colbert's sister was a great candidate who would destroy the cuckold GOP candidate....

Yeah Dems and libs don't believe in conspiracies....
 
2013-05-17 10:54:25 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Yeah Dems and libs don't believe in conspiracies....


I don't know anybody who believes any of those things. I think you're full of shiat.
 
2013-05-17 10:55:04 AM

FloridaFarkTag: un4gvn666: BojanglesPaladin: or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base

This is actually provably false.

The liberal base is statistically more informed and less prone to conspiracies than conservatives. This should be obvious to anyone at this point.

We're the people that actually realize Colbert is making fun of you.

Yeah...less prone to conspiracies....like Trayvon Martin was murdered by white man....CIA sold crack in the hood....AIDS was created by govt to kill minoritirs....Colbert's sister was a great candidate who would destroy the cuckold GOP candidate....

Yeah Dems and libs don't believe in conspiracies....


Take a poll on all of those things, just as you've written them.  Let's see what libby libz say.

Then take a poll on "Saddam was connected with 9/11" and "Obama is a Kenyan Muslim" and see what rightwingers say.

Also:  "Colbert's sister was a great candidate who would destroy the cuckold GOP candidate."  Two things:  1) Look up "cuckold", it does not mean what you think it means, and 2) that's a conspiracy?
 
2013-05-17 10:56:28 AM
"even salon"

what the shiat
 
2013-05-17 10:56:57 AM
Media Matters obviously doesn't understand Bully Logic®.

1. The Bully makes the Rules.
2. The Bully appears to be in the center of a crowd of supporters.
3. Actual logic and argument has no place in Bully Logic® and no appeal to compassion, fairness or any "churchy" weakness has any effect.
4. Bully Logic® requires the skillful use of Victim Values© like compassion, fairness, tolerance, equity to confuse and contradict.
5. Bully Logic® protects the amoral, especially the very wealthy amoral. and the careful exercise of always choosing the darker side when the other is a win-win.
6. Bully Logic® knows that Killing the Goose that Lays the Golden Egg is not a problem. The government will always buy it another Goose, and bill the Victim Values©

.
 
2013-05-17 10:56:59 AM

Kibbler: PawisBetlog: Citrate1007: This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.

inb4 the trolls and dittos start chanting "ONLY CUZ U GOT CAUGHT LOLOBAMABENGHAZIIRSAPBIGGESTSCANDALEVARZ"

But srsly, even though it's being called out and refuted, Media Matters should have scrutiny and ridicule heaped upon it at least as much as all the libbiest libs heap onto Foxnews and the like.

Because Media Matters is a 24/7 cable news channel.  Because Media Matters and Fox News have equal influence.  Because Media Matters claims to report all of "the news."  Because Media Matters constantly stresses that they're "fair and balanced."  Because Media Matters claims that all other news outlets are biased lamestream driveby media, but they, the single largest news media organization, are different.  Pure.  Good.
American.  Because one of Media Matters' best-known talking heads has been boycotted by numerous advertisers because so many people have expressed disgust with him.  Because liberal politicians jump from the "I HATEZ ME SOME MEDIA" bandwagon to well-paying positions within Media Matters, where they leave behind all semblance of reasonable debate and instead simply regurgitate "ZOMG Republican Monster Scandal" talking points.


No, because Media Matters is engaging in partisan hackery, and partisan hackery should be reviled and ridiculed wherever it appears, anywhere on the political spectrum, whether it's your stabbing at the heart of your opponent from the castle of your mom's basement, or from a major news outlet.

\for the record, it was not my pee you tasted in your cheerios this morning, look elsewhere.
 
2013-05-17 10:57:50 AM

Kibbler: Colbert's sister was a great candidate who would destroy the cuckold GOP candidate."  Two things:  1) Look up "cuckold", it does not mean what you think it means, and 2) that's a conspiracy?


Hey, you never know, Sanford could be really into that.
 
2013-05-17 11:01:16 AM

PawisBetlog: Kibbler: PawisBetlog: Citrate1007: This is the primary difference between the right and left.  The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.

inb4 the trolls and dittos start chanting "ONLY CUZ U GOT CAUGHT LOLOBAMABENGHAZIIRSAPBIGGESTSCANDALEVARZ"

But srsly, even though it's being called out and refuted, Media Matters should have scrutiny and ridicule heaped upon it at least as much as all the libbiest libs heap onto Foxnews and the like.

Because Media Matters is a 24/7 cable news channel.  Because Media Matters and Fox News have equal influence.  Because Media Matters claims to report all of "the news."  Because Media Matters constantly stresses that they're "fair and balanced."  Because Media Matters claims that all other news outlets are biased lamestream driveby media, but they, the single largest news media organization, are different.  Pure.  Good.
American.  Because one of Media Matters' best-known talking heads has been boycotted by numerous advertisers because so many people have expressed disgust with him.  Because liberal politicians jump from the "I HATEZ ME SOME MEDIA" bandwagon to well-paying positions within Media Matters, where they leave behind all semblance of reasonable debate and instead simply regurgitate "ZOMG Republican Monster Scandal" talking points.

No, because Media Matters is engaging in partisan hackery, and partisan hackery should be reviled and ridiculed wherever it appears, anywhere on the political spectrum, whether it's your stabbing at the heart of your opponent from the castle of your mom's basement, or from a major news outlet.

\for the record, it was not my pee you tasted in your cheerios this morning, look elsewhere.


That "pee in your cheerios" thing could be applied to what you originally said.  It could be applied to almost any statement that anybody makes about anything that expresses an opinion.  Same thing for the "the castle of your mom's basement" crack.  You may note that I didn't make any remarks like that.
 
2013-05-17 11:03:00 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Yeah...less prone to conspiracies....like Trayvon Martin was murdered by white man....CIA sold crack in the hood....AIDS was created by govt to kill minoritirs....Colbert's sister was a great candidate who would destroy the cuckold GOP candidate....


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this one actually happen? Like, we have admissions from former LAPD officers who did the selling?
 
2013-05-17 11:04:57 AM

Kibbler: That "pee in your cheerios" thing could be applied to what you originally said. It could be applied to almost any statement that anybody makes about anything that expresses an opinion. Same thing for the "the castle of your mom's basement" crack. You may note that I didn't make any remarks like that.


And you may notice that I didn't make any remarks like "Media Matters and Fox News have equal influence" or "Media Matters claims to report all of "the news", or that "Media Matters constantly stresses that they're fair and balanced" I made a passing comparison, not a detailed thesis on their similarities.

Pardon my snark, but I was just pointing out that those of us who are of the liberal persuasion need to be equally scornful of bad behavior when it occurs within our ranks, taking the high road of objectivity if you will, lest we further feed the partisan war machine.
 
2013-05-17 11:15:04 AM

I_C_Weener: This letter is all you need to know about this scandal.  It was legal, but contrary to the DOJ's own guidelines developed with media input to avoid this kind of power trip.


In this instance,where the Department subpoenaed two months of records related to 20 telephone lines, including records from major AP bureaus and the home phone and cell phone records of individual journalists, the Department appears to have ignored or brushed aside almost every aspect of the guidelines.

-Narrow scope of the subpoena...
-Seeking information from alternative sources...
-Obligation to inform and negotiate...
-Attorney General approval...
-Balancing of interests...
 ...
It should immediately return the telephone toll records obtained and destroy all copies, as requested by The Associated Press. If it refuses, it should at the very least segregate these records and prohibit any further use of them at this time. It should explain how government lawyers overreached so egregiously in this matter and describe what the Department will do to mitigate the impact of these actions. Additionally, the Department must also publicly disclose more information on who has had access to the records and what protections were taken to ensure that information unrelated to a specific criminal investigation was not utilized by any Department employees. This undertaking is consistent with § 50.10(g)(4) ("Any information obtained as a result of a subpoena issued for telephone toll records shall be closely held so as to prevent disclosure of the information to unauthorized persons or for improper purposes.


That's from the letter, and those are the issues  that should be prevalent about this expedition, and each of the failings are documented.  The most notable aspect of the talking points is that they fail to address any of them and instead try to twist the issues to partisan ones about the reporter shield law and Valerie Plame.  Neither of those have any relevance to whether in this instance, the DoJ followed it's own guidelines and procedures in an overly broad search that cuts straight to the core of why the Constitution singles out the press as the only private enterprise meriting explicit protection.
 
2013-05-17 11:19:53 AM

Dr Dreidel: our president is from a minority group...


in 2008?   Are Connecticut born Texans a protected class?
 
2013-05-17 11:22:22 AM
Hey GOP, remember all those times people have posted stuff to you that basically boiled down to "Stop crying wolf, or people are going to start tuning you out completely and when there really 'is' something to be upset about, no one's going to believe you."

Well, you didn't listen.  You screamed and wailed and squealed over every little stupid thing in the world, until every sane soul in America just rolled their collective eyes and stopped listening to you.

And now?  Well, let's just say that if you'd acted 'sane' the last five years, I guarantee you people would be taking this a LOT more seriously.  As it is, most people are skimming it, seeing your involvement and simply chalking it up to the Outrage of The Week.

You were warned, and honestly, it makes me sick.

This is what 'the loyal opposition' is all about, guys.  You're supposed to keep the Democrats on their toes, but you lost your farking minds over 'arugula'.  And mustard.  And gardens.  And the President having a beer.  And the fact that he golfs.  And a thousand and one other insignificant things, all because you ran into a Democrat that didn't have any skeletons in his closet and who has an innate talent for trolling your ignorant asses until you make complete fools out of yourselves on a regular basis.

So, now you're a joke on the world stage and when the Democrats 'do' get out of hand and push too far, people automatically assume it's less than what it might be, because YOU are outraged.  Again.  And they assume it's something on the scale of mustard and birf certificat whar.
 
2013-05-17 11:24:50 AM
Media Matters is partisan? The devil you say!
 
2013-05-17 11:25:57 AM
Well, AP had been acting like Fox News Jr. throughout the campaign. If they were acting on orders from the Romney campaign, I'd certainly want to find out about it.
 
2013-05-17 11:27:07 AM

Karma Curmudgeon: I_C_Weener: This letter is all you need to know about this scandal.  It was legal, but contrary to the DOJ's own guidelines developed with media input to avoid this kind of power trip.

In this instance,where the Department subpoenaed two months of records related to 20 telephone lines, including records from major AP bureaus and the home phone and cell phone records of individual journalists, the Department appears to have ignored or brushed aside almost every aspect of the guidelines.

-Narrow scope of the subpoena...

AP has 3,400 employees so 20 phones does in fact seem pretty narrow to me plus it is also limited to 2 months, so also narrow in that sense.

-Seeking information from alternative sources...
Apparently they did in fact exhaust these alternate sources of information first

-Obligation to inform and negotiate...
not sure about this one

-Attorney General approval...
He recused himself for some reason but the Deputy Attorney General approved.  (Typically the term "deputy" indicates an equivalency of vested authority)

-Balancing of interests...
GOP wanted the leaks investigated, they tried to investigate it without AP records and they couldn't.  So long as AP is not the target of the investigation, I would say interests are balanced.  AP not giving up the records willingly also protects there reputation.

 ...
It should immediately return the telephone toll records obtained and destroy all copies, as requested by The Associated Press. If it refuses, it should at the very least segregate these records and prohibit any further use of them at this time. It should explain how government lawyers overreached so egregiously in this matter and describe what the Department will do to mitigate the impact of these actions. Additionally, the Department must also publicly disclose more information on who has had access to the records and what protections were taken to ensure that information unrelated to a specific criminal investigation was not utilized by any Department employees. This undertaking is consistent with § 50.10(g)(4) ("Any information obtained as a result of a subpoena issued for telephone toll records shall be closely held so as to prevent disclosure of the information to unauthorized persons or for improper purposes.

That's from the letter, and those are the issues  that should be prevalent about this expedition, and each of the failings are documented.  The most notable aspect of the talking points is that they fail to address any of them and instead try to twist the issues to partisan ones about the reporter shield law and Valerie Plame.  Neither of those have any relevance to whether in this instance, ...
 
2013-05-17 11:29:56 AM

mrshowrules: Karma Curmudgeon: I_C_Weener: This letter is all you need to know about this scandal.  It was legal, but contrary to the DOJ's own guidelines developed with media input to avoid this kind of power trip.


Let me just say that I think it was wrong because they did have a court ordered judgement to get these records.  This practice in general is wrong/terrible but I don't think it is illegal but I am not a lawyer (not even a GED).
 
2013-05-17 11:33:45 AM

BojanglesPaladin: Citrate1007: his is the primary difference between the right and left. The left calls out bullshiat like this........the right repeats it until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth.

You earnestly believe that "the left" does not repeat spin "until their dumb ass base no longer remembers the truth."?

Is it that you think the left doesn't spin, or that the left doesn;t have a dumb ass base, or both?


The left has it's portion of dumb ass in its base; however, it is not anti-intellectual and idiots are shunned out of the spotlight.  That is the general notion I was going for.
 
2013-05-17 11:34:13 AM
David Brock has some very serious mental health issues that he needs to get more help for.
 
2013-05-17 11:44:10 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Dr Dreidel: our president is from a minority group...

in 2008?   Are Connecticut born Texans a protected class?


Seems like someone missed a joke.
 
2013-05-17 11:47:20 AM
But FOX News?

WTF

Anyone have the cartoon of the donkey and the elephant jumping over different sized hurdles with the word hypocrite coming out of the Donkeys mouth?
 
2013-05-17 11:50:29 AM

madgonad: It was an outright fishing expedition and the judge that allowed this needs to be gone. In fact, every judge should be asked to review this and fire the one's that fail the test.


except...no.  Judges don't even need to approve these kind of record grabs anymore thanks to the patriot act, and phone records have NEVER needed a warratn because according to the Supreme Court nearly 60 years ago, phone records belong to the phone company, not you so you have no expectation of privacy over them (same with your bank records BTW)

Don;t like that? Then change the law, but stop whining about people doing something that's been more or less routine ofr half a century
 
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