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(NW Florida Daily News)   Remember kids: When the cops pull you over and you quickly try to dispose of your illegal methadone by dissolving it in a puddle of your Mountain Dew, make sure they dissolve all the way before giving him permission to search your car   (nwfdailynews.com) divider line 25
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2144 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2013 at 8:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-17 08:29:43 AM
Close, Subby.You almost have the details accurate.
 
2013-05-17 08:29:47 AM
If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no
 
2013-05-17 08:33:26 AM

roddack: If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no


I see no flaws in this plan.
 
2013-05-17 08:34:01 AM
Thank God that this dangerous moron is off the street.  Funny thing is this being Florida he could have gotten a script if he would have applied ten seconds worth if effort.
 
2013-05-17 08:37:12 AM

LDM90: roddack: If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no

I see no flaws in this plan.


No, you tell them you're Chris Durner and they better back off if they know what's good for them.  And you need to be driving a truck, that's all that matters.  They'll believe you're him, trust me.
 
2013-05-17 08:40:56 AM
Police blotter? No wonder all the cops walk around in a state of heightened anxiety and shoot things just because, they're all on this official 'police blotter' lsd drug. No doubt they all smoke it at roll-call or sprinkle it on their donuts. Then they're out there, REALLY out there, pounding the beat while all around them pink fuzzy shards of crystalline ether wombats are spinning inside wheels within wheels of lucidity, confusion and elves, there are always elves.
 
2013-05-17 08:51:26 AM
"A puddle of your Mountain Dew."

Kids have such funny names for it these days.
 
2013-05-17 08:54:10 AM

LDM90: roddack: If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no

I see no flaws in this plan.


Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."

/that's still no reason to forgo your rights.  Always say no
//Am I being charged with something, Sir? Am I being detained, Sir? May I please go, Sir?
 
2013-05-17 09:03:12 AM

D135: LDM90: roddack: If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no

I see no flaws in this plan.

Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."

/that's still no reason to forgo your rights.  Always say no
//Am I being charged with something, Sir? Am I being detained, Sir? May I please go, Sir?


I am wondering if you can just turn the last step in to a statement, instead.

Am I being charged with something, sir?

Am I being detained, sir?

In that case, I will be leaving at this time. Thank you.

If I am not being charged or detained, then why would I need permission to leave?

Study it out.
 
2013-05-17 09:03:19 AM

D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit. Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."


And when they find nothing, you can laugh and laugh at how they wasted their time.
 
2013-05-17 09:31:50 AM

buttcat: If I am not being charged or detained, then why would I need permission to leave?


Very true, but I would still prefer to phrase it as a question.  Always let the officer think they are in control of the situation, for your safety.
 
2013-05-17 09:38:39 AM

D135: buttcat: If I am not being charged or detained, then why would I need permission to leave?

Very true, but I would still prefer to phrase it as a question.  Always let the officer think they are in control of the situation, for your safety.


A better phrasing may be, "Am I free to leave?" IIRC, that's the expression used in the Supreme Court opinions regarding roadside searches, and it's neutral.
 
2013-05-17 10:13:22 AM

chrylis: D135: buttcat: If I am not being charged or detained, then why would I need permission to leave?

Very true, but I would still prefer to phrase it as a question.  Always let the officer think they are in control of the situation, for your safety.

A better phrasing may be, "Am I free to leave?" IIRC, that's the expression used in the Supreme Court opinions regarding roadside searches, and it's neutral.


Both of these are good points. =)

You may have saved my life from an "unfortunate accident".
 
2013-05-17 12:29:07 PM

fredklein: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit. Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."

And when they find nothing, you can laugh and laugh at how they wasted their time.


Yeah, that can constitute verbal assault/heckling/interfering with police business, enjoy your tasering...
There's always a way if they want to find one.
 
2013-05-17 01:32:26 PM

croesius: fredklein: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit. Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."

And when they find nothing, you can laugh and laugh at how they wasted their time.

Yeah, that can constitute verbal assault/heckling/interfering with police business, enjoy your tasering...
There's always a way if they want to find one.


And if they can't find a way they will just lie about it later.  Dashboard cam footage always gets lost in the shuffle.  God help you if it's two officers against your word.

/always be nice, no matter how hard it is.  Yes sir, no sir, please and thank you
//please don't tase me, bro sir
 
2013-05-17 01:51:41 PM

croesius: fredklein: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit. Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."

And when they find nothing, you can laugh and laugh at how they wasted their time.

Yeah, that can constitute verbal assault/heckling/interfering with police business, enjoy your tasering...


I'd seriously like to see that court case. "Your honor, the defendant is charged with 'verbal assault' (WhateverTF that is) because he ... laughed." "Your honor, the defendant is charged with 'interfering with police business' because he actually dared stand on his 4th Amendment Rights"

There's always a way if they want to find one.

Oh, of course. Usually they go for the planted baggie. (Which, having no fingerprints, cannot be linked to you, so....)
 
2013-05-17 01:53:39 PM

D135: always be nice, no matter how hard it is. Yes sir, no sir, please and thank you


I never said not to be nice.

Laughing, per se, is not not nice. If questioned as to why you're laughing, you can always (quite truthfully) say "I though of something funny", and decline to elaborate.
 
2013-05-17 02:10:28 PM

D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."



I'm almost entirely positive I saw this happen once, If not I am not really sure how the "signal" WASN'T staged or well...you'll see...

prepare for the CSB...

In Highschool, about '98-99 we were having our weekly keg party in the woods when the state police decided to show up with a K9 unit.  They blocked the first car in (no way out) and proceeded to round the 30 or so of us up. I just happened to know that 4 people had just split a quarter pound of pot right at the car that the LEO's blocked in.  3 of those people each ditched their ounce underneath that car (wasn't their car) and walked away, the fourth didn't have time without the SP seeing him, so he kept it in his cargo pocket.

The cops started the dog around, first the car under which everything was dumped.  I could see all 3 fat bags from where I was standing, however the dog didn't flinch.  Meanwhile we're all kinda looking at eachother like WTF?  He takes the dog all through the crowd and to all the cars and nothing (even though I knew there was tons of drugs around).  Then finally on the last car the cop says "We've got a hit".  They search through this girl's car and find 3 seeds in the ash tray and the Cops all "can't get anything past old officer barksalot" (or whatever).  So they proceed to tell us the evils of drugs and "let the girl go" and stuff like that when my buddy-the one with an ounce in his pocket still-pipes up "Can I pet your dog!?!?"

We all silently freak out, then figure there is no way in hell he'll let him pet the dog any ways...

Cop says "sure!"...and there our friend goes...to pet the dog.  Again, no "signal".  He pets the dog while kinda giving us all a shiat eating grin.

And the cops get back in their cruisers and let us finish the keg.

end csb/
 
2013-05-17 02:37:35 PM

2KanZam: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."


I'm almost entirely positive I saw this happen once, If not I am not really sure how the "signal" WASN'T staged or well...you'll see...

prepare for the CSB...


Nice!

my own CSB

High school, english class, police and K9 walk in.  I got caught with green a week ago but let go on a technicality so I know why they're here.  Walks dog past everyone, and I notice a focus on me.  K9 passes me once, twice, thrice, and on the fourth time the handler pretty much just stands over me for longer than normal and gives a little tug on the dogs leash.  "Signal".  Search.  Nothing.

/CSB
 
2013-05-17 03:03:08 PM
My free advise as a criminal defense attorney is always,

If the police approach call out to you and ask you to "come here" or say "wait a second" or "can I speak with you" immediately turn and walk away.  Don't run or walk quickly, just proceed at a normal pace.  Although it is not necessary, you can say while you are walking away, "I don't have time to talk" or "I don't want to talk".  The key is to continue to move away until and unless the officer touches you or stands in your way.  If he does stop, as you have been seized for 4th Amendment purposes.  If he doesn't have articulable suspicion to stop you than there is a pretty good chance an attorney will be able to suppress any evidence obtained following your seizure.   (Depending on which state you live, running away can give police probable cause to stop you, so make sure you walk at a normal pace.)

If a police officer says "can you come here for a moment" or "can I talk to you", and you start talking to him you have just consented to a voluntarily police encounter and your 4th Amendment protections don't come into play. You might think that you are smarter than the average person, but you probably will say something or simply "act very nervous" or put your hands on your hips or in your pockets and the police will then claim he has a right to search you for his protection, and you just screwed yourself because he will now find your crack, meth, weapon, etc...

Once you have been stopped, never answer the police officer's questions.  If asked a question, ask "Am I under arrest? Am I free to leave?"  If the police doesn't answer , and continues to ask you questions, you respond by saying, "I guess I am not under arrest" and start slowly walking away.  The key is to make sure that you are not turning it into a voluntarily encounter and result in the problems above.

If you are stopped in a car and police pulls up next to you, or behind you, without their lights on, you should immediately start your car and pull away slowly.  You are not required to stop unless they turn their lights on or get on the speaker and tell you to stop.  If you remain and allow them to walk up to your car you are participating in a voluntarily encounter.  The same goes if a police officer approaches your car on foot.  Simply start your car and drive away slowly.  If they have a legal reason to stop you they will turn on their lights and/or order you to stop.

Never give the police permission to search you.  Even if they  say they want to check for weapons the answer is, "No, trust me I don't have anything."  If they ask you why or press the issue, respond, "I don't want you feeling all over me and grabbing my balls" (something police do during most pat downs).

Never give the police permission to search your car.  If they ask you why, tell them you don't have time and don't want them pulling out and messing up your personal effects which you have organized.  You should immediately ask, "Can I get my drivers license back?"  Followed immediately by, "Am I free to leave?"  "if you are going to write me a ticket, than write me a ticket,"   If they simply start to search without asking, say "Why are you searching, I didn't give you permission to search" and keep repeating it. (People have a lower expectation of privacy in a car due to its mobility, they can search your car without permission or a warrant if it smell like weed.")

If you are at your home and the police knock on your door, speak with them through your door.  If they ask you to open your door, respond, "No, I prefer to talk through the door."  If you open the door without looking to see who knocked, make sure when the police make movement towards you that you do not step back.  If they catch you off guard and you step back (as is a normal's person's response) you need to immediately say, "I didn't give you permission to come in, step back on the porch."

The police are trained to take advantage of normal responses and push their way into your house.  Unless you physically block their way and/or "Tell them they are not allowed in" they will enter.  Once they are in your house they will claim they felt the need to complete a protective sweep, and they can walk through your entire house and look at anything that you may have laying out.  If they find something they can charge you with it.  So don't let them in your house.

The key is: Do NOT volunteer or consent to police encounters.  Attempt to stop any encounters that you find yourself in, and do so verbally ("Can I leave?" and "Am I under arrest?), and never consent to anything.  If they simply start searching then object, several times.

If you consent, than you destroy any chance that your attorney would have had to suppress any evidence obtained against you.
 
2013-05-17 03:07:20 PM

D135: 2KanZam: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."


I'm almost entirely positive I saw this happen once, If not I am not really sure how the "signal" WASN'T staged or well...you'll see...

prepare for the CSB...

Nice!

my own CSB

High school, english class, police and K9 walk in.  I got caught with green a week ago but let go on a technicality so I know why they're here.  Walks dog past everyone, and I notice a focus on me.  K9 passes me once, twice, thrice, and on the fourth time the handler pretty much just stands over me for longer than normal and gives a little tug on the dogs leash.  "Signal".  Search.  Nothing.

/CSB


Huh, they wouldn't let the dogs come in our classroom and somehow everyone always knew the day they were coming (I don't remember if we were tipped off or if they had to tell us) So we'd just keep it on us that day and the searches were at lockers during class.

It was always funny seeing the dogs go apeshiat at the door of your class room-barking snouts peeking through the door as the handler keeps them at bay.

The only kid I remember getting in trouble for this, didn't get in trouble for drugs.  He put steaks and open cans of dog food in his locker.

/It was a little unnerving when you noticed yours was the only locker in the row that got all scratched up.
 
2013-05-17 03:31:18 PM
This past October I was stopped by a Nebraska Trooper while I was traveling to some property I have in Cali. Had him on my radar a mile away and over a rise, well before I was in sight of him. I was going three over according to both speedo and GPS as I passed him, along with several dozen other cars on I-80. Was surprised to see the lights to be honest.

It may have been profiling; I was driving a 10-year-old CTS ... still too Matrix-y for Nebraska perhaps? Anyway, he took me to his front passenger seat after cursory greetings before giving me a written warning for speeding and driving on the wrong side of the shoulder marker (!?). I was pleasant and answered these questions:
- Where was I going (told him, even gave him the addy to check because I am a complete idiot and wanted to be friendly)
- Was I carrying large sums of cash (no ... do I have to answer this? It seems legally reasonable, not like:)
- How much money was I carrying (after I fell for this followup, I told myself to stop being a complete idiot)
- Did I have any weapons (yes, unloaded, trigger-locked and in a locked case in the trunk ... I should answer this one, right?)
- Did I have any illegal substances (no)

He released me and I got out of his car. As I was closing the door he said something, so I asked him to repeat it. Its was a "so you're sure" type of thing. Then he asked to search and I declined. Pat down, back in cop car, still cordial.

Way over 2 damn hours for the dog to come. I asked three times how fast I was going and his answer was "fast enough to catch my attention". I also had time to challenge him on the driving on shoulder, he was likewise vague. The dog cleared me and I was on my way.

Thoughts?

In retrospect, I do kick myself for not asking the magic "am I under arrest" and "am I free to go" statements. I actually used these phrases in a house visit situation once, regarding something I didn't want to get involved with and I know it works. It took three times using those phrases, conversationally, before they left.

/BTW, the police report of that visit reads, in totality; "Talked to (last name). (Last name) refused to answer questions."
//That's perfect by me.
///Being in the front seat of a cruiser next to a trooper feels a lot different than being on your porch behind a screen door.
////Water presoak makes brownies not smell.
 
2013-05-17 03:34:19 PM

JeffreyScott: My free advise as a criminal defense attorney is always,

If the police approach call out to you and ask you to "come here" or say "wait a second" or "can I speak with you" immediately turn and walk away.  Don't run or walk quickly, just proceed at a normal pace.  Although it is not necessary, you can say while you are walking away, "I don't have time to talk" or "I don't want to talk".  The key is to continue to move away until and unless the officer touches you or stands in your way.  If he does stop, as you have been seized for 4th Amendment purposes.  If he doesn't have articulable suspicion to stop you than there is a pretty good chance an attorney will be able to suppress any evidence obtained following your seizure.   (Depending on which state you live, running away can give police probable cause to stop you, so make sure you walk at a normal pace.)

If a police officer says "can you come here for a moment" or "can I talk to you", and you start talking to him you have just consented to a voluntarily police encounter and your 4th Amendment protections don't come into play. You might think that you are smarter than the average person, but you probably will say something or simply "act very nervous" or put your hands on your hips or in your pockets and the police will then claim he has a right to search you for his protection, and you just screwed yourself because he will now find your crack, meth, weapon, etc...

Once you have been stopped, never answer the police officer's questions.  If asked a question, ask "Am I under arrest? Am I free to leave?"  If the police doesn't answer , and continues to ask you questions, you respond by saying, "I guess I am not under arrest" and start slowly walking away.  The key is to make sure that you are not turning it into a voluntarily encounter and result in the problems above.

If you are stopped in a car and police pulls up next to you, or behind you, without their lights on, you should immediately start your car and pull ...



This is all well and good if they are truthful and absolute sticklers for the law and their own adherence to it.

My Last CSB, very abridged version (I have alot of them)

Again in HS, In a friends car and we are driving down the road in an upscale, very residential neighborhood.  Two Cops just standing along side of the road wave one car past them and then kinda step in the way of our car.  He puts his hand up (in the stop fashion) and motions for us to pull to the side.  We do so.  They immediatly approach the car, nothing said until they say "I smell weed".  No they didn't-hadn't smoked all day.

They get us out, handcuff us together (4 of us) and we ask why they pulled us over.  "We clocked you speeding, 25 in a 15".  We are respectful but we state "but you both were out of the car, nothing in your hands, how do you know we're speeding?"...no answer, Just something about how they couldn't even afford the garage doors in this neighborhood.  "But sir we don't live here..." Cops, "shut up!" (seriously verbatum)

Anywho, myself and the driver are arrested and they put me in the car.  At my feet in the back seat?  A radar gun, unplugged on the floor.

They called a paddywagon and on the way to jail the driver puts in "Welcome to the Jungle" on full blast! (like to scare us?  This was neither of our first times in cuffs)  LOL We still talk about that one, hilarious!


/2nd time that cop arrested me
//Think buddy was narc'd out-thats why we were pulled over
///Cops were standing where a road crew was changing speed limit from 25 to 15, he got off because they couldn't pull over anyone for speeding for 24 hours after the change was made!
//I actually respect the police and it has gotten me out of alot of trouble just being respectful and truthful, even dated one!
/I don't do illegal things anymore
 
2013-05-17 03:37:38 PM

roddack: If the cop ask if they can search your car the answer should always be no


I've watched so many episodes of COPS where the people would have been sent on their way if when the cop asked "can I search your car" the answer had been "no".  Even if you throw out the ones where the cop is super suspicious and probably would have found a way to get probable cause or a warrant anyway, there's still a TON of them where if they just said "no, sorry" nothing would have happened.

There is nothing to gain by letting a cop search your car.  Nothing.  The only positive outcome for you will be if they don't find something.
 
2013-05-17 03:51:14 PM

2KanZam: D135: Other than "Wait here for 30 minutes while I call the K9 unit.  Then the handler will claim the dog signaled and we will have BS probable cause."


I'm almost entirely positive I saw this happen once, If not I am not really sure how the "signal" WASN'T staged or well...you'll see...

prepare for the CSB...

In Highschool, about '98-99 we were having our weekly keg party in the woods when the state police decided to show up with a K9 unit.  They blocked the first car in (no way out) and proceeded to round the 30 or so of us up. I just happened to know that 4 people had just split a quarter pound of pot right at the car that the LEO's blocked in.  3 of those people each ditched their ounce underneath that car (wasn't their car) and walked away, the fourth didn't have time without the SP seeing him, so he kept it in his cargo pocket.

The cops started the dog around, first the car under which everything was dumped.  I could see all 3 fat bags from where I was standing, however the dog didn't flinch.  Meanwhile we're all kinda looking at eachother like WTF?  He takes the dog all through the crowd and to all the cars and nothing (even though I knew there was tons of drugs around).  Then finally on the last car the cop says "We've got a hit".  They search through this girl's car and find 3 seeds in the ash tray and the Cops all "can't get anything past old officer barksalot" (or whatever).  So they proceed to tell us the evils of drugs and "let the girl go" and stuff like that when my buddy-the one with an ounce in his pocket still-pipes up "Can I pet your dog!?!?"

We all silently freak out, then figure there is no way in hell he'll let him pet the dog any ways...

Cop says "sure!"...and there our friend goes...to pet the dog.  Again, no "signal".  He pets the dog while kinda giving us all a shiat eating grin.

And the cops get back in their cruisers and let us finish the keg.

end csb/


That was awesome!

I lost it at "Officer Barksalot" : D
 
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