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(Opposing Views)   Protip: If you're going to lock someone up while you burglarize their home, don't lock them up in their gun closet   (opposingviews.com) divider line 156
    More: Fail, Ben Taub General Hospital, Chevy Tahoe, burglary, homeowners, guns  
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10317 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2013 at 6:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-16 05:05:32 PM  
They ought to let him out of jail for a couple hours just so he can go talk to his buddies.
 
2013-05-16 05:22:39 PM  
They believed they locked him up in a closet, but the closet was actually home to the man's gun collection

Now THAT's what I call a gun collection.
 
2013-05-16 05:24:55 PM  
I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?
 
2013-05-16 05:35:17 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?


It would depend.

If the walls needed repaintig soon anyway, I'd go with the Remington. But if I just wanted to change out the carpet, than the .357. Even if the .45 is more powerful, .357 just sounds cooler.
 
2013-05-16 05:45:05 PM  

mr_a: Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?

It would depend.

If the walls needed repaintig soon anyway, I'd go with the Remington. But if I just wanted to change out the carpet, than the .357. Even if the .45 is more powerful, .357 just sounds cooler.


My .357 firing 158 grains has more than twice the power of a .45 ball.  But I can suppress the .45, and that would be terrifying to any intruder.  PHHHUMMMP.  PHHHHUMMMMP. klink klink.  The .357 on the other hand goes through walls and is deafening, plus it has 7 shots, so if they're counting, they're in trouble.

Shotguns are too big for inside work, unless they're shortened.  Legally, of course.
 
2013-05-16 05:51:19 PM  
Looks like yesterday's thieving imbecile who drove his victim's stolen car to her place of employment has just been bested.
 
2013-05-16 05:56:49 PM  
A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...
 
2013-05-16 05:57:55 PM  
the person being attacked does not have a "duty to retreat."

This should be an international standard.
 
2013-05-16 06:03:45 PM  
Penetration or knockdown power? Burt goes for the elephant gun.
www.imfdb.org
 
wee
2013-05-16 06:07:07 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: My .357 firing 158 grains has more than twice the power of a .45 ball. But I can suppress the .45, and that would be terrifying to any intruder. PHHHUMMMP. PHHHHUMMMMP. klink klink. The .357 on the other hand goes through walls and is deafening, plus it has 7 shots, so if they're counting, they're in trouble.


Trouble with suppressing .45 ACP is that even though the round never breaks the sound barrier, it's a large enough bore than a small column of gas will remain unperturbed by the baffles and still make a supersonic noise. Unless you have a very long supressor or use media, I guess. But that takes serious planning, and will make a mess of your carpets.

My Gemtech Blackside doesn't have an L.I.D. so it has a habit of stovepiping on tilt-barrel semis, like the 1911 and P220, unless you really strongarm it. So even though it's quiet-ish, it's not as reliable or accurate as with the suppressor off.  Hard to argure with ten rounds of .45, though.

I think I'd grab the P226 with three 20-round mags full of HST and call it good.  Though I recently picked up a 2340 in .357 SIG and that is a smoking round. It's also a pistol I wouldn't mind being seized as evidence since it only cost a couple hundred bucks.
 
wee
2013-05-16 06:12:36 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Penetration or knockdown power? Burt goes for the elephant gun.


Naw, a smart fella would go for the Red Ryder BB gun in the lower middle and the M8 flare pistol in the upper left: "Plink, clack-clack. Plink, clack-clack.  Plink, clack-clack.  WHOOSH!"
 
2013-05-16 06:18:45 PM  
And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.
 
2013-05-16 06:24:18 PM  
Another brain box gets busted. Where is "America's Dumbest Criminals" when you need it?
 
2013-05-16 06:24:24 PM  
'Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.'.
 
2013-05-16 06:24:35 PM  
My take away is they thought a gun safe was a closet.  Hey, lock him up in that heavy steal closet with combination dial.
 
2013-05-16 06:24:58 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


Which is why keeping your guns locked up is a terrible idea! Thanks for the reminder.
 
2013-05-16 06:26:55 PM  
And if you ever wondered what the sound of a million gun owners fapping sounded like...
 
2013-05-16 06:27:12 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?


25.media.tumblr.com

cdn.hark.com

Broke into the wrong God damn rec room, didn't ya you bastard!
 
2013-05-16 06:27:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?


My step father was a gun dealer/smith and when a neighbor broke in I chose a Spa-12.
 
2013-05-16 06:28:57 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...


I know which loser YOU voted for. The one who is currently crashing our economy.
 
2013-05-16 06:30:01 PM  
Better than your finger ... pew, pew, pew....
 
2013-05-16 06:30:34 PM  
I bet that he even had access to his ear protection.

That's handy.
 
2013-05-16 06:31:17 PM  

"Neighbors say burglaries have been on the rise in recent months, the latest being a robbery where thieves kicked down a door."


They have a problem, but I have the solution:


a.abcnews.com

Just don't carry Skittles with you and you'll be fine.

 
2013-05-16 06:31:25 PM  
... in before the crybabies who say the homeowner shouldn't be playing god...

The homeowner didn't create the situation, he reacted.

If you intentionally trigger someone's instinctual fight-or-flight response you gotta take the consequences of the fight.

The burglar assumed the risk.  He should be forced to pay to fix whatever damage happened to the house, including paying for the cleanup of his own blood stains.
 
2013-05-16 06:35:23 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.



Magazine limits: "Sure, the odds are statistically tiny that someone can successfully rush a shooter during a mag change, but it happened once so it's worth any cost!"

Guns for home defense: "The odds are slim that you'll be able to successfully defend yourself, so we should just ignore any incidents where that actually happens."

I respect differing viewpoints.  Try to have some consistency of logic, though.
 
2013-05-16 06:38:47 PM  

wee: Marcus Aurelius: My .357 firing 158 grains has more than twice the power of a .45 ball. But I can suppress the .45, and that would be terrifying to any intruder. PHHHUMMMP. PHHHHUMMMMP. klink klink. The .357 on the other hand goes through walls and is deafening, plus it has 7 shots, so if they're counting, they're in trouble.

Trouble with suppressing .45 ACP is that even though the round never breaks the sound barrier, it's a large enough bore than a small column of gas will remain unperturbed by the baffles and still make a supersonic noise. Unless you have a very long supressor or use media, I guess. But that takes serious planning, and will make a mess of your carpets.

My Gemtech Blackside doesn't have an L.I.D. so it has a habit of stovepiping on tilt-barrel semis, like the 1911 and P220, unless you really strongarm it. So even though it's quiet-ish, it's not as reliable or accurate as with the suppressor off.  Hard to argure with ten rounds of .45, though.

I think I'd grab the P226 with three 20-round mags full of HST and call it good.  Though I recently picked up a 2340 in .357 SIG and that is a smoking round. It's also a pistol I wouldn't mind being seized as evidence since it only cost a couple hundred bucks.


I agree the P226 is liable to get "lost" in evidence.
 
2013-05-16 06:39:47 PM  
Heh.

Usually, 'protips' on Fark mostly aren't. This one... is.
 
2013-05-16 06:41:00 PM  
I might opt for the flamethrower...


www.ultimatesportsmen.com
 
2013-05-16 06:41:34 PM  

Apos: Looks like yesterday's thieving imbecile who drove his victim's stolen car to her place of employment has just been bested.


Match.com is in their future, however short they may be alive together
 
2013-05-16 06:45:34 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...


That "nut" is still alive and took Entitlers of the street. You would be hog tied, raped and missing your xbox from your moms basement.
 
2013-05-16 06:46:29 PM  

wee: Trouble with suppressing .45 ACP is that even though the round never breaks the sound barrier, it's a large enough bore than a small column of gas will remain unperturbed by the baffles and still make a supersonic noise. Unless you have a very long supressor or use media, I guess. But that takes serious planning, and will make a mess of your carpets.


images.gunstar.co.uk
 
2013-05-16 06:53:51 PM  
This is why I keep a home defense M1 Garand near my bed.
 
2013-05-16 06:54:43 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: The .357 or the .45?


I have a 9mm now, so neither of those. I mean, I farking love my other pistols, but after actually firing my P226 inside a building the other day I'm no longer convinced my 1911 would just hurt for a while. I have a feeling I'd end up with instant, permanent hearing loss. GP100? You could pay me to shoot it indoors, but you would have to pay me.
 
2013-05-16 06:56:50 PM  
accurateshooter.net
For ALL your varmint problems!
 
2013-05-16 07:04:54 PM  

Everfearful: I respect differing viewpoints.


Not a viewpoint.

If the crooks just sat him down and held him at gunpoint it's a firearm fiesta for them and perhaps a severe beating or worse for him.

Or is he going to outrun a bullet?
 
2013-05-16 07:06:32 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Everfearful: I respect differing viewpoints.

Not a viewpoint.

If the crooks just sat him down and held him at gunpoint it's a firearm fiesta for them and perhaps a severe beating or worse for him.

Or is he going to outrun a bullet?


You seem disappointed that your scenario wasn't the actual outcome.
 
2013-05-16 07:09:02 PM  

bmihura: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...

I know which loser YOU voted for. The one who is currently crashing our economy.


What are you talking about? The economy is doing great! Stock markets are at an all-time high, banks and corporations are flush with cash. Things couldn't get much better.
 
wee
2013-05-16 07:14:40 PM  
ElLoco:
[images.gunstar.co.uk image 550x367]

Yeah, that would do it.

Which reminds me that I need to get the barrel on my .45 Camp Carbine threaded...
 
2013-05-16 07:27:49 PM  

Frank N Stein: You seem disappointed


Just pointing out it doesn't matter what's in your closet without access. The crooks gave him access.
 
2013-05-16 07:43:55 PM  
LOL-ing at all the anti-gun ninnies that will try to poop on this most awesome story... but I have to admit that he should have had one closer at hand and injuring only one of them non-fatally was not the ideal outcome. There is a big difference between having guns and being prepared to use them in a surprise situation.
 
2013-05-16 07:48:55 PM  
Came for the Tremors references.
 
2013-05-16 07:52:01 PM  

squibbits: LOL-ing at all the anti-gun ninnies that will try to poop on this most awesome story... but I have to admit that he should have had one closer at hand and injuring only one of them non-fatally was not the ideal outcome. There is a big difference between having guns and being prepared to use them in a surprise situation.


Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

It's been helpful many times.

As for not killing the guy, I'm very much ok with that. 1. I don't want to kill anybody unless I have to. I would've shot to stop the threat, but if he lived I would not be sorry. 2. I need someone to tell the cops where the other two are.
 
2013-05-16 07:53:29 PM  

bmihura: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...

I know which loser YOU voted for. The one who is currently crashing our economy.


You mean the economy Bush wrecked?

I'd go for my .45. I live in an apartment right now and that won't overpenetrate as much as the .40 or the 9's. I could also go for the .32, as that is about guaranteed not to make it into the neighbors apartment if I somehow manage to miss, but if someone actually broke in, I'd want them dead, not wounded.

/ Gun totin' Lib
 
2013-05-16 07:55:31 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: I might opt for the flamethrower...


[www.ultimatesportsmen.com image 850x544]


I dunno, not likely to get the flamethrower back, looks like he could spare a BAR though!
 
2013-05-16 07:57:12 PM  

LeroyBourne: My take away is they thought a gun safe was a closet.  Hey, lock him up in that heavy steal closet with combination dial.


Maybe.  My guns are just in an ordinary closet.  But if it was a safe then I believe all safes these days are required to have an inside emergency out type thing to prevent getting locked inside.  Which makes the robbers triple stupid.
 
2013-05-16 07:58:59 PM  

squibbits: LOL-ing at all the anti-gun ninnies that will try to poop on this most awesome story... but I have to admit that he should have had one closer at hand and injuring only one of them non-fatally was not the ideal outcome. There is a big difference between having guns and being prepared to use them in a surprise situation.


Nice try.
 
2013-05-16 08:01:09 PM  

doglover: the person being attacked does not have a "duty to retreat."

This should be an international standard.


Don't be silly, this is america: you're supposed to call the cops for all your legal problems.

Guns are icky and dangerous and fire on their own and you'll die if you look at one.
 
2013-05-16 08:03:06 PM  

fusillade762: Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]

[cdn.hark.com image 688x432]

Broke into the wrong God damn rec room, didn't ya you bastard!


I think I love you.

Glendale: Came for the Tremors references.


The fact that your ID is my nickname at work creeps me out. The fact that we're both here for the same thing is even weirder.

one more coincidence and I'm naming you my doppleganger.
 
2013-05-16 08:03:44 PM  
There are alternatives though...

i.chzbgr.com
 
2013-05-16 08:04:33 PM  
Another responsible gun owner.
 
2013-05-16 08:09:10 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...

Typical liberal finding it appropriate to make gay jokes when it's targeting someone they don't like. I'm betting your're a master with the "N" word towards them brown people you don't like.
 
2013-05-16 08:09:18 PM  
I chuckled. Nice.
 
2013-05-16 08:15:16 PM  
I'd be far more impressed if it was his knife collection.
 
2013-05-16 08:17:00 PM  

Bandito King: I'd be far more impressed if it was his knife collection.


Intruders had guns. You never bring a knife to a gun fight.

DID SEAN CONNERY TEACH YOU NOTHING?!
 
2013-05-16 08:18:26 PM  
I have a baseball that has hammer painted on the side of it, so I've got that going for me
 
2013-05-16 08:18:49 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: They believed they locked him up in a closet, but the closet was actually home to the man's gun collection

Now THAT's what I call a gun collection.


His gun collection has its own home?

Yeah, call me impressed.
 
2013-05-16 08:27:20 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Don't be silly, this is america: you're supposed to call the cops for all your legal problems.


Is it too much to ask that in a civilized society you don't resort to lethal force if you can reasonably avoid it for property crimes?

Most "gun grabbers" wouldn't have any problem with this case. This individual had legal firearms in his own home and didn't seek out a confrontation.
 
2013-05-16 08:27:39 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Bandito King: I'd be far more impressed if it was his knife collection.

Intruders had guns. You never bring a knife to a gun fight.

DID SEAN CONNERY TEACH YOU NOTHING?!


He taught me to look before you leap.
 
2013-05-16 08:30:36 PM  

duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.


This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

oi44.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-16 08:34:14 PM  

Frank N Stein: This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.


I get the playboy and the n64 cartridge, but what's up with the claymore?
 
2013-05-16 08:34:21 PM  

Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]


so can you teach me some rex kwon do? is the first lesson still free?
 
2013-05-16 08:36:31 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frank N Stein: This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

I get the playboy and the n64 cartridge, but what's up with the claymore?


ammo box claymore glock ar-47 ak-15 pressure cooker, buddy.
 
2013-05-16 08:41:41 PM  

utah dude: ammo box claymore glock ar-47 ak-15 pressure cooker, buddy.


Well then that explains the U.S. hell yeah pants.

Thanks.
 
2013-05-16 08:43:02 PM  

fusillade762: Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x270]

[cdn.hark.com image 688x432]

Broke into the wrong God damn rec room, didn't ya you bastard!


i love that movie because this couple.
 
2013-05-16 08:44:17 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Everfearful: I respect differing viewpoints.

Not a viewpoint.

If the crooks just sat him down and held him at gunpoint it's a firearm fiesta for them and perhaps a severe beating or worse for him.

Or is he going to outrun a bullet?


How sad you must be that this homeowner was in the end able to defend himself and wasn't butchered in his own home for your anti-gun talking points.
 
2013-05-16 08:45:36 PM  

Tsar_Bomba1: I might opt for the flamethrower...


[www.ultimatesportsmen.com image 850x544]


Use the 50 chain gun, the neighbors will hear it and they will call the ambulance and police for you.
 
2013-05-16 08:49:51 PM  

Der Poopflinger: I have a baseball that has hammer painted on the side of it, so I've got that going for me


are you a notary, too? TRIPLE THREAT!
 
2013-05-16 08:52:40 PM  
well in about two weeks he'll be arrested on grounds of hate crime and attempted murder.
 
2013-05-16 08:55:49 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frank N Stein: This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

I get the playboy and the n64 cartridge, but what's up with the claymore?


That's an ammo can....
 
2013-05-16 09:00:28 PM  

violentsalvation: How sad


Oh, I see. The fact that it was just dumb luck that put a gun in this guy's hands kinda takes all the fun out patting each other on the back for your extraordinary ability to own a thing.
 
2013-05-16 09:01:51 PM  

Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]


You may have to die for even owning star-spangled Hammer pants if you use them for anything but cleaning that sweet rifle...
 
2013-05-16 09:02:13 PM  

eatin' fetus: That's an ammo can....


That's what they want you to think. When you go to open it.... boom the cheap dresser drawers bring the balls of pain.
 
2013-05-16 09:02:49 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Capo Del Bandito: Don't be silly, this is america: you're supposed to call the cops for all your legal problems.

Is it too much to ask that in a civilized society you don't resort to lethal force if you can reasonably avoid it for property crimes?

Most "gun grabbers" wouldn't have any problem with this case. This individual had legal firearms in his own home and didn't seek out a confrontation.


Perhaps you missed the part where the robber shot at him, for daring to be inside his own home. I didn't know assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder count as property crimes.
 
2013-05-16 09:08:29 PM  

OnlyM3: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...
Typical liberal finding it appropriate to make gay jokes when it's targeting someone they don't like. I'm betting your're a master with the "N" word towards them brown people you don't like.


In what ways am I a "typical liberal"? Be specific.
 
2013-05-16 09:12:11 PM  

Luse: Perhaps you missed the part where the robber shot at him, for daring to be inside his own home. I didn't know assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder count as property crimes.


Nope. Read the rest of the thread.

But this "no duty to retreat" has been used to kill people over property
 
2013-05-16 09:16:10 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Perhaps you missed the part where the robber shot at him, for daring to be inside his own home. I didn't know assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder count as property crimes.

Nope. Read the rest of the thread.

But this "no duty to retreat" has been used to kill people over property


It's really simple. Don't break into someone's house and you won't get shot.
 
2013-05-16 09:19:32 PM  

Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]


oi44.tinypic.com

You're ready to bust out REX QUAN DO

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-16 09:20:52 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: eatin' fetus: That's an ammo can....

That's what they want you to think. When you go to open it.... boom the cheap dresser drawers bring the balls of pain.


Nah, just an ammo can.
 
2013-05-16 09:21:12 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Perhaps you missed the part where the robber shot at him, for daring to be inside his own home. I didn't know assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder count as property crimes.

Nope. Read the rest of the thread.

But this "no duty to retreat" has been used to kill people over property


The only one who should have any "duty to retreat" is the perpetrator.
I have nice things. I work hard for them. I have cars, a motorcycle, a nice entertainment system, a good wife, 2 awesome ferrets, and an annoying guinea pig.
If you see it fit to trespass on my property, which btw, is against the law, I have 0 faith in your ability or willingness to follow any other laws. I certainly won't place me or mine in any further danger by asking you whether you have hostile intent or if perhaps you are one of those gentle Robin Hood types. I will respond with as much force as necessary until such time as you see a duty to retreat, whether on your feet or in a body bag I'll leave up to you.
I will defend all who enter my home with my permission against all who enter my home without. (even the annoying guinea pig)
If you have a problem with any of this, I suggest you do not attempt to enter my home without invitation. If THAT is too difficult, please remove yourself from the gene pool.
 
2013-05-16 09:24:32 PM  

Frank N Stein: It's really simple. Don't break into someone's house and you won't get shot.


I'm certainly willing to give the homeowner every benefit of the doubt, and like I said previously I think case was totally justified. I'm not in favor of Joe Horn situation shootings.
 
2013-05-16 09:26:31 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frank N Stein: It's really simple. Don't break into someone's house and you won't get shot.

I'm certainly willing to give the homeowner every benefit of the doubt, and like I said previously I think case was totally justified. I'm not in favor of Joe Horn situation shootings.


Fair enough.
 
2013-05-16 09:28:00 PM  
Homeowner vs. Burglar
Episode one - Here's my score card.
Homeowner:
Guns in closet: 1 point
Goes after burglars: 1 point
Two successful shots: 2 points
Burglars run away: 3 points
Success Bonus: x2

Burglars:
Break into home: -1 point
Lock man in gun closet: -1 point
Homie gets shot twice: -2 points
Lose gun fight: -1 point
Accomplices leave you behind: -2 points
Bonus - FPYITAP x5

Homeowner 14, Burglars -35
 
2013-05-16 09:29:38 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Perhaps you missed the part where the robber shot at him, for daring to be inside his own home. I didn't know assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder count as property crimes.

Nope. Read the rest of the thread.

But this "no duty to retreat" has been used to kill people over property


Yeah...here's the thing...I'm fine with that.  None of the people in your article were stealing food for their family...which would be at least marginally ethically defensible.  They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them.  They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings.  I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

The ability to NOT get shot? they had it, and opted not to use it.  Mess with Darwin, get what you deserve.
 
2013-05-16 09:41:36 PM  

PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.


These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.
 
2013-05-16 09:47:55 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.


So we are to assume that the burglars are reasonable?

Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?
 
2013-05-16 09:54:13 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frank N Stein: This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

I get the playboy and the n64 cartridge, but what's up with the claymore?


Besides confusing the ammo can with a claymore... you don't know a Super Nintendo cartridge when you see one?!
 
2013-05-16 10:00:12 PM  
Capo Del Bandito:  DID SEAN CONNERY TEACH YOU NOTHING?!

Most things in here don't react too well to bullets.

/yeah, like me. I don't react well to bullets.
 
2013-05-16 10:00:23 PM  

Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]


Should be a 1911 instead of Tupperware.
 
2013-05-16 10:04:36 PM  
DrewCurtisJr:These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary.


If you break into a house and threaten the residents, only to get killed in the process, what happened isn't a trial or the proper application of the death penalty. Its a Darwin award being handed out at three times the speed of sound in response to a dangerous situation of your own creation.

/Home invasions all too often end in murders (which can get the death penalty).
/The residents have no way to know if you're a kinder gentler bandit, and no obligation to wait and find out.  .
 
2013-05-16 10:09:06 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.


I don't think you deserve the JUDICIAL death penalty for anything; rather, quite a lot of people deserve it, but proving it is tricky.  The death penalty is Constitutional, but our legal system is too error-prone for it to be applied fairly.
 
2013-05-16 10:12:07 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: OnlyM3: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom


A gun nut that's in the closet? Why am I not surprised...
Typical liberal finding it appropriate to make gay jokes when it's targeting someone they don't like. I'm betting your're a master with the "N" word towards them brown people you don't like.

In what ways am I a "typical liberal"? Be specific.


You're a natural born asswipe. Typical liberal, specifically.
 
2013-05-16 10:21:16 PM  

way south: DrewCurtisJr:These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary.


If you break into a house and threaten the residents, only to get killed in the process, what happened isn't a trial or the proper application of the death penalty. Its a Darwin award being handed out at three times the speed of sound in response to a dangerous situation of your own creation.

/Home invasions all too often end in murders (which can get the death penalty).
/The residents have no way to know if you're a kinder gentler bandit, and no obligation to wait and find out.  .


The way not to get the death penalty for burglary is not to break into someone's residence when they are home.

The law has done everything it possibly can to ensure that burglars don't die otherwise: Spring traps and booby traps are illegal, killer watchdogs are illegal, mining the yard and Terminators are illegal...but if you must break into someone's house and threaten his life, you cannot complain when you die afterward. I know I'm often too realistic for many Farkers (liberal and conservative alike), but really, there's just no other way to put this: Don't want to die? Don't break into homes where there are people.
 
2013-05-16 10:25:02 PM  
He should have killed the asshole.  Now he will sue him for injuries when he gets out of prison.
 
2013-05-16 10:27:41 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: Penetration or knockdown power? Burt goes for the elephant gun.
[www.imfdb.org image 600x338]


You, my good Farker, win one Interwebz!
 
2013-05-16 10:29:25 PM  
I have 2 sweet little girls. If somebody breaks into my home while we are here, I would like to think the perps mama would have to buy a funeral dress. Better them than me, or mine IN MY OWN GOTDAM HOME! You break in to a strangers home, you got whatever is coming to you. You give up any rights you have if you enter my home uninvited, including your right to walk out of here.
 
2013-05-16 10:31:06 PM  

Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?


Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

PunGent: I don't think you deserve the JUDICIAL death penalty for anything; rather, quite a lot of people deserve it, but proving it is tricky. The death penalty is Constitutional, but our legal system is too error-prone for it to be applied fairly.


Even in our system of justice the death penalty is prone to error. I hope you see why I am hesitant to allow people to shoot others when there are other options.
 
2013-05-16 10:32:39 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I can picture this guy in his closet.  You'd be paralyzed with indecision for at least a full minute.  The .357 or the .45?  The Remington pump or the double crow bar?


I'd go with the .357, .45 has been hard to find lately.
 
2013-05-16 10:35:42 PM  

Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]


Two questions: Is that a Walther P99? And I get why you have everything else, but a Super Nintendo cartridge?
 
2013-05-16 10:37:33 PM  

Frank N Stein: Besides confusing the ammo can with a claymore... you don't know a Super Nintendo cartridge when you see one?!


No I couldn't see the image clear enough before I got home. And no I don't know an n64 from a super Nintendo cartridge, it's been a long time.
 
2013-05-16 10:37:40 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?

Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

PunGent: I don't think you deserve the JUDICIAL death penalty for anything; rather, quite a lot of people deserve it, but proving it is tricky. The death penalty is Constitutional, but our legal system is too error-prone for it to be applied fairly.

Even in our system of justice the death penalty is prone to error. I hope you see why I am hesitant to allow people to shoot others when there are other options.


Oh, I understand...and any rule we have, humans will find a way to screw it up.  I think I just read a case where a father shot his kid when she jumped out of a closet and startled him; he thought the house was empty.

I just think it should be crystal-clear TO BURGLARS that they can be shot in the course of their chosen profession.  Long as there's no ambiguity, I'm fine with a "reasonable homeowner" standard.

Obviously, you shoot the mailman walking up to your mailbox at high noon...that ain't reasonable, and you're going to prison, and we're taking your guns away.
 
2013-05-16 10:40:52 PM  

hundreddollarman: Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]

Two questions: Is that a Walther P99? And I get why you have everything else, but a Super Nintendo cartridge?


Walther PPQ.. and I just threw in the SNES game for the hell of it.
 
2013-05-16 10:47:55 PM  

Frank N Stein: hundreddollarman: Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]

Two questions: Is that a Walther P99? And I get why you have everything else, but a Super Nintendo cartridge?

Walther PPQ.. and I just threw in the SNES game for the hell of it.


I've heard a lot of wonderful things about the PPQ. Unfortunately, I live in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, and they think it's "unsafe" for us to own, so I can only get one through either a private sale or a ridiculous single-shot conversion process.
 
2013-05-16 10:48:32 PM  

Everfearful: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


Magazine limits: "Sure, the odds are statistically tiny that someone can successfully rush a shooter during a mag change, but it happened once so it's worth any cost!"

Guns for home defense: "The odds are slim that you'll be able to successfully defend yourself, so we should just ignore any incidents where that actually happens."

I respect differing viewpoints.  Try to have some consistency of logic, though.


Damn. Now that's a smackdown.
 
2013-05-16 11:11:26 PM  
The homeowner was fortunate to be locked in any closet rather than be killed when the burglars discovered he was home, but especially where he had weapons stored. But he really pushed his luck when he decided to go out and perhaps start a gunfight with three intruders. I understand he suspected they may have already left, but at that point he was taking a big risk for what; to save his TV set?
/granted there is not enough information in the article for me to decide if his risk was worthy. He may have been expecting family or who knows what. But it seems he would have been safer to stay put or perhaps find somewhere else to hide and defend himself.
//I guess in the end he did well counting on the odds that the criminals would flee, just like Joe Biden suggested they would.
 
2013-05-16 11:26:38 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.


The reason the "stand your ground" law was passed was because no homeowner should have to be worrying while he's trying to defend himself and his family whether he's going to have the tables turned around and be sued for everything he owns by the intruder. He's already at a major disadvantage.

And yes to both thoughts you may be having

1. concealed carriers have hesitated to shoot (with tragic consequences) for exactly this reason (one example that comes to mind was the guy who had a CCW and was a clown working at the mall where the shooting occurred. he was left paralyzed)
2. burglars and home invaders have sued the homeowners of the home they robbed for injuries sustained in the process of robbing their home. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues- ca lif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/ )
 
2013-05-16 11:33:07 PM  

Ablejack: The homeowner was fortunate to be locked in any closet rather than be killed when the burglars discovered he was home, but especially where he had weapons stored. But he really pushed his luck when he decided to go out and perhaps start a gunfight with three intruders. I understand he suspected they may have already left, but at that point he was taking a big risk for what; to save his TV set?
/granted there is not enough information in the article for me to decide if his risk was worthy. He may have been expecting family or who knows what. But it seems he would have been safer to stay put or perhaps find somewhere else to hide and defend himself.
//I guess in the end he did well counting on the odds that the criminals would flee, just like Joe Biden suggested they would.


On the slight chance that you're not attention trolling, I would say that it's far better to take the fight to unsuspecting burglars rather than wait for them to come back and drag him out of the closet. Which, of course, they certainly will - if you were robbing a house, would you leave a nice big "closet" unsearched for valuables? Nope. Of course at that time he could shoot from inside the closet, but that's a terrible position... not to mention it will almost certainly leave him deaf for life.
 
2013-05-16 11:34:38 PM  
ETA: I don't mean you should attack the robbers unless you were absolutely sure you needed to. I don't know the particulars, but the recommended course of action is to hole up in an easily defensible space, call the police, lock the door.
 
2013-05-16 11:35:10 PM  
DrewCurtisJr:

Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?

Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

 
Except I have no assurance that Bob the Friendly Burglar doesn't have a friend who's a lookout. Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

Also, I live in Alaska. In order to "freely" escape out the back door it would be advisable for me to put on my boots, a jacket depending on season, and maybe my car keys would be handy. This takes a WHOLE lot more time than grabbing a weapon so I obviously can't do all that. So while I'm running down the road, in my socks with no jacket or keys, hoping that one of Bob's buddies don't jack me in the back I'm wondering about the phone I left on the kitchen table that I could use to call someone with. Is it at this point that I start wondering why I just left my animals, possibly my wife and all of my worldly belongings in the hands of criminals?
 Or

I could grab my gun, pick the most defensible area in my house, which I know rather well  because well, it's my damned house.
Now I have the advantage as I am armed and familiar with the layout. At least I have a fighting chance.
OH, and one little other thing, in most cases including this one, once the homeowner opens fire, the rats scamper.

I'll repeat myself, the only one with the duty to retreat in my house is the intruder. You may not care about your animals, your great grandmas wedding ring, or that bike that you fixed up JUST right. I do.
I care about them a whole lot more than a group of junkies busting into my house, threatening my family and wanting to sell my most precious memories for their next high.

It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.

/Even dumber than the annoying guinea pig
 
2013-05-16 11:53:51 PM  

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human

.

Thing is, I respect everyone's views. If you believe in fleeing rather than fighting because you don't want to hurt anyone over possessions, I really respect you. Honestly. You are so true to your beliefs that you would risk your life and that of your family to uphold them, and I truly do honor that. It's not so different from the conscientious objectors who went to WWII as medics rather than soldiers, choosing to carry no firearm event hough they would be most certainly shot at.

But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.
 
2013-05-16 11:54:32 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.
 
2013-05-16 11:54:46 PM  
comment was in response to Drew Curtis Jr.
 
2013-05-16 11:59:08 PM  

duenor: Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.


But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.


I actually agree with everything you've said. I believe one of us is reading something wrong.
 
2013-05-17 12:00:07 AM  
And it's me not reading the very next post.
I r da winrar
 
2013-05-17 12:00:12 AM  

jjorsett: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.

And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.


Yes. That's why it's an error.
 
2013-05-17 12:01:43 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: jjorsett: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.

And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.

Yes. That's why it's an error.


As was robbing the house in the first place, regardless of occupant or weapon presence.
 
2013-05-17 12:05:10 AM  

viqas: He should have killed the asshole.  Now he will sue him for injuries when he gets out of prison.


Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
2013-05-17 12:07:18 AM  
Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

How many times do I have to tell you to read my previous comments?

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.


I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:42 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

How many times do I have to tell you to read my previous comments?

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.

I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.


Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:57 AM  

Gyrfalcon: way south: DrewCurtisJr:These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary.


If you break into a house and threaten the residents, only to get killed in the process, what happened isn't a trial or the proper application of the death penalty. Its a Darwin award being handed out at three times the speed of sound in response to a dangerous situation of your own creation.

/Home invasions all too often end in murders (which can get the death penalty).
/The residents have no way to know if you're a kinder gentler bandit, and no obligation to wait and find out.  .

The way not to get the death penalty for burglary is not to break into someone's residence when they are home.

The law has done everything it possibly can to ensure that burglars don't die otherwise: Spring traps and booby traps are illegal, killer watchdogs are illegal, mining the yard and Terminators are illegal...but if you must break into someone's house and threaten his life, you cannot complain when you die afterward. I know I'm often too realistic for many Farkers (liberal and conservative alike), but really, there's just no other way to put this: Don't want to die? Don't break into homes where there are people.


Agreed. I'm about as liberal as they come but I have no problem with people using deadly force to defend themselves from intruders in their homes.
 
2013-05-17 12:16:38 AM  

duenor: But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.


That's not the point now is it. Are you going to go Yosemite Sam to save your precious ferrets or if you have a reasonable opportunity use non-lethal force like we would expect law enforcement?
 
2013-05-17 12:16:45 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.


You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

I wish you and yours the best. May you cross paths with me rather then the criminals you fellate for oh so much. You have nothing to fear from me, them on the other hand, may you never find out.

Good day Sir.
 
2013-05-17 12:26:00 AM  

Luse: Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.


How many times do I have to write that if you feel threatened you are justified in using deadly force? I'll even grant a very wide range of reasonable doubt to the homeower/victim. But if you have a reasonable option of not using deadly force, in the case of property theft, you should be judged on that option. Would you be ok if Walmart security gunned down a kid who stole a xbox game?
 
2013-05-17 12:32:51 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.

How many times do I have to write that if you feel threatened you are justified in using deadly force? I'll even grant a very wide range of reasonable doubt to the homeower/victim. But if you have a reasonable option of not using deadly force, in the case of property theft, you should be judged on that option. Would you be ok if Walmart security gunned down a kid who stole a xbox game?


Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.

I do not expect my door to be kicked in my home. No one should. If an individual or a group go this far to invade your home you have every right to feel threatened.
What normally happens after an invasion?

Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.
 
2013-05-17 12:34:16 AM  

Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.


You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?
 
2013-05-17 12:34:20 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.

That's not the point now is it. Are you going to go Yosemite Sam to save your precious ferrets or if you have a reasonable opportunity use non-lethal force like we would expect law enforcement?


LEO would act exactly in the same way I do - even less charitably, actually. Some guy started bashing in the windows of a mcdonald's where I used to live with a pipe. LEOs came, told him to put the pipe down. He refused, walked out of the restaurant, then turned around with the pipe half raised toward the cops. The funeral was about a week later. Wasn't even near the LEOs. But they weren't about to put themselves or the bystanders at risk of being bludgeoned. You can google the story up, was about a year or two ago.

See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.

As for NLF.... do you know how such weapons work? I do. I don't discount them (I do have a can of green fox labs) but inside my home I'm going for the most effective defensive item, and that one comes with a 20 round magazine.
 
2013-05-17 12:37:49 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?


No. He's obviously a sick and twisted individual. That fact doesn't make your mind any healthier.
 
2013-05-17 12:39:38 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?


The only part of that story (which I've read before) that I believe was wrong was the finishing shot part.As for the homeowner, he has loose mouth disease as well as a poor understanding of the law.

If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).
 
2013-05-17 12:42:47 AM  

Luse: Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.


So a kid who steal from walmart is just a petty thief but a kid who breaks into your home, where he thinks nobody is present, is a murderous "junkie" who deserves to be shot? I've got news for you, often times this is the same kid, the "scum of the earth" who you don't give a second thought to shooting.

Luse: Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.


What if he doesn't surrender, and runs out the door with your grandmas wedding ring?
 
2013-05-17 12:42:47 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?

Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

PunGent: I don't think you deserve the JUDICIAL death penalty for anything; rather, quite a lot of people deserve it, but proving it is tricky. The death penalty is Constitutional, but our legal system is too error-prone for it to be applied fairly.

Even in our system of justice the death penalty is prone to error. I hope you see why I am hesitant to allow people to shoot others when there are other options.


What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?
 
2013-05-17 12:45:07 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.

So a kid who steal from walmart is just a petty thief but a kid who breaks into your home, where he thinks nobody is present, is a murderous "junkie" who deserves to be shot? I've got news for you, often times this is the same kid, the "scum of the earth" who you don't give a second thought to shooting.

Luse: Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.

What if he doesn't surrender, and runs out the door with your grandmas wedding ring?


Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.
 
2013-05-17 12:47:43 AM  

squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?


Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.
 
2013-05-17 12:50:18 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?

Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.


What part of "home" are you having a hard time with?
 
2013-05-17 12:52:16 AM  

duenor: If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).


WTF? Are you some kind of criminal loving pansy? All burglars are scum and deserve no mercy.
 
2013-05-17 12:53:46 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).

WTF? Are you some kind of criminal loving pansy? All burglars are scum and deserve no mercy.


Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Are you a blatant liar or just criminally stupid?
 
2013-05-17 12:54:52 AM  

Luse: Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.


Why? Everyone has a mommy whether or not you know her. Why not execute the "scum"?
 
2013-05-17 12:58:52 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?

Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.


The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?
 
2013-05-17 01:00:26 AM  
Because I'm not an executioner and it's not my place. I only care for my safety and the safety of my family. I'm not sure what delusion you live in. The places I've lived  the type of people who broke into your home when you were there were not little Timmy.
Your questions are dishonest and stupid. If he bolts for the door, he's not threatening me is he. If I see shoulders spin he's not turning around for a bout of harsh language.
 
2013-05-17 01:00:59 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.

Why? Everyone has a mommy whether or not you know her. Why not execute the "scum"?


1/10

OK For a minute there, I thought you might actually have had some kind of a valid point... troll on.
 
2013-05-17 01:02:00 AM  
If only he would have had a gun this whole thing wouldn't have happened
 
2013-05-17 01:05:56 AM  

squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?


Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?
 
2013-05-17 01:09:21 AM  

Luse: Because I'm not an executioner and it's not my place. I only care for my safety and the safety of my family.


Don't forget about your precious things:

Luse: You may not care about your animals, your great grandmas wedding ring, or that bike that you fixed up JUST right. I do.
 
2013-05-17 01:30:28 AM  

duenor: See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.


You do realize that you are agreeing with me don't you?
 
2013-05-17 01:40:12 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


No.
 
2013-05-17 01:50:08 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


No. But any armed criminal is potentialy murdering you. You have to collapse their wave function as soon as possible. That's just simple physics.
 
2013-05-17 01:50:24 AM  
Webly Vickers 50.80
 
2013-05-17 02:09:36 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.

You do realize that you are agreeing with me don't you?


No, I'm not.
Troll troll troll... sigh. All right, we've given you enough attention for this thread. Even your nick is a plea for attention. Well... much to my shame I bit and bit again.
Okay.... moving on to respond to people who actually want to discuss...
 
2013-05-17 04:04:52 AM  

DigitalCoffee: There are alternatives though...

[i.chzbgr.com image 480x338]


Except (being a gun nut) that's not even close to 88 caliber.
 
2013-05-17 06:21:44 AM  

duenor: DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.

The reason the "stand your ground" law was passed was because no homeowner should have to be worrying while he's trying to defend himself and his family whether he's going to have the tables turned around and be sued for everything he owns by the intruder. He's already at a major disadvantage.

And yes to both thoughts you may be having

1. concealed carriers have hesitated to shoot (with tragic consequences) for exactly this reason (one example that comes to mind was the guy who had a CCW and was a clown working at the mall where the shooting occurred. he was left paralyzed)
2. burglars and home invaders have sued the homeowners of the home they robbed for injuries sustained in the process of robbing their home. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues- ca lif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/ )


Yeah, the whole "intruders get to sue" is BS.  Personally, I blame dumb juries and chickenshiat insurance companies.
 
2013-05-17 06:26:03 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


For that alone?  no.  But I won't sniffle if in the course of stealing someone's TV he refuses a command to "freeze" and then gets shot.

Don't steal shiat if you don't want to get shot.  Don't give thieves sympathy unless you want to perpetuate the species.

You're part of the problem, frankly.
 
2013-05-17 08:14:51 AM  
In Texas you can most definitely be killed over property, or getting your property back.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and(3) he reasonably believes that:(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
 
2013-05-17 11:05:09 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


I have a form at my back door that any home invader MUST fill out first.  I don't like surprises.
 
2013-05-17 11:12:41 AM  
Yep.
Would I shoot someone for stealing fruit from my tree? No.
My old laptop?
My new laptop?
Tires from my car?
My car that I use to get to work?
How about my wife's wedding ring?
Or my mothers?
The copper cables in my home?

At a certain point, and each person has theirs... you can no longer say "it's just objects". Because in effect, it's your life that person is taking, piece by piece.

Where my mother's from, they have a saying: Thieves get beaten. And nobody feels sorry for them.

When I was in Alaska, I was told not to touch other people's hanging game (or fish). It's very serious over there - groceries are hard to come by and when you mess with someone's food you are messing with their ability to stay fed throughout the winter. You go around stealing their food, thinking "it's just a fish", and you may very well get shot and buried somewhere no one will ever find you.

In the same way, if you steal my car, I can't get to work and feed my family.
 
2013-05-17 12:05:00 PM  
This story made my morning.
 
2013-05-17 03:13:21 PM  
I like how the article didn't bother explaining whether or not the other guys got caught.
 
2013-05-18 01:54:15 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


You sound pretty pissed that the criminals can't just fark up as often as they want without any consequence.
 
2013-05-18 02:06:15 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Frank N Stein: It's really simple. Don't break into someone's house and you won't get shot.

I'm certainly willing to give the homeowner every benefit of the doubt, and like I said previously I think case was totally justified. I'm not in favor of Joe Horn situation shootings.


Yeah, people like you, they tend to hate it when career criminals get shot in the middle of a crime.
 
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