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(Opposing Views)   Protip: If you're going to lock someone up while you burglarize their home, don't lock them up in their gun closet   (opposingviews.com) divider line 156
    More: Fail, Ben Taub General Hospital, Chevy Tahoe, burglary, homeowners, guns  
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10306 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2013 at 6:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-16 10:40:52 PM

hundreddollarman: Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]

Two questions: Is that a Walther P99? And I get why you have everything else, but a Super Nintendo cartridge?


Walther PPQ.. and I just threw in the SNES game for the hell of it.
 
2013-05-16 10:47:55 PM

Frank N Stein: hundreddollarman: Frank N Stein: duenor: Plan, experiment, plan. Plan your home layout. Install alarms. Plan even for after the shooting.
I do the same for car breakdowns, fires, earthquakes, medical emergencies, witnessing a crime.

This is why these items are always within reach of me. Gotta be prepared for anything.

[oi44.tinypic.com image 494x512]

Two questions: Is that a Walther P99? And I get why you have everything else, but a Super Nintendo cartridge?

Walther PPQ.. and I just threw in the SNES game for the hell of it.


I've heard a lot of wonderful things about the PPQ. Unfortunately, I live in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, and they think it's "unsafe" for us to own, so I can only get one through either a private sale or a ridiculous single-shot conversion process.
 
2013-05-16 10:48:32 PM

Everfearful: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


Magazine limits: "Sure, the odds are statistically tiny that someone can successfully rush a shooter during a mag change, but it happened once so it's worth any cost!"

Guns for home defense: "The odds are slim that you'll be able to successfully defend yourself, so we should just ignore any incidents where that actually happens."

I respect differing viewpoints.  Try to have some consistency of logic, though.


Damn. Now that's a smackdown.
 
2013-05-16 11:11:26 PM
The homeowner was fortunate to be locked in any closet rather than be killed when the burglars discovered he was home, but especially where he had weapons stored. But he really pushed his luck when he decided to go out and perhaps start a gunfight with three intruders. I understand he suspected they may have already left, but at that point he was taking a big risk for what; to save his TV set?
/granted there is not enough information in the article for me to decide if his risk was worthy. He may have been expecting family or who knows what. But it seems he would have been safer to stay put or perhaps find somewhere else to hide and defend himself.
//I guess in the end he did well counting on the odds that the criminals would flee, just like Joe Biden suggested they would.
 
2013-05-16 11:26:38 PM

DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.


The reason the "stand your ground" law was passed was because no homeowner should have to be worrying while he's trying to defend himself and his family whether he's going to have the tables turned around and be sued for everything he owns by the intruder. He's already at a major disadvantage.

And yes to both thoughts you may be having

1. concealed carriers have hesitated to shoot (with tragic consequences) for exactly this reason (one example that comes to mind was the guy who had a CCW and was a clown working at the mall where the shooting occurred. he was left paralyzed)
2. burglars and home invaders have sued the homeowners of the home they robbed for injuries sustained in the process of robbing their home. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues- ca lif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/ )
 
2013-05-16 11:33:07 PM

Ablejack: The homeowner was fortunate to be locked in any closet rather than be killed when the burglars discovered he was home, but especially where he had weapons stored. But he really pushed his luck when he decided to go out and perhaps start a gunfight with three intruders. I understand he suspected they may have already left, but at that point he was taking a big risk for what; to save his TV set?
/granted there is not enough information in the article for me to decide if his risk was worthy. He may have been expecting family or who knows what. But it seems he would have been safer to stay put or perhaps find somewhere else to hide and defend himself.
//I guess in the end he did well counting on the odds that the criminals would flee, just like Joe Biden suggested they would.


On the slight chance that you're not attention trolling, I would say that it's far better to take the fight to unsuspecting burglars rather than wait for them to come back and drag him out of the closet. Which, of course, they certainly will - if you were robbing a house, would you leave a nice big "closet" unsearched for valuables? Nope. Of course at that time he could shoot from inside the closet, but that's a terrible position... not to mention it will almost certainly leave him deaf for life.
 
2013-05-16 11:34:38 PM
ETA: I don't mean you should attack the robbers unless you were absolutely sure you needed to. I don't know the particulars, but the recommended course of action is to hole up in an easily defensible space, call the police, lock the door.
 
2013-05-16 11:35:10 PM
DrewCurtisJr:

Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?

Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

 
Except I have no assurance that Bob the Friendly Burglar doesn't have a friend who's a lookout. Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

Also, I live in Alaska. In order to "freely" escape out the back door it would be advisable for me to put on my boots, a jacket depending on season, and maybe my car keys would be handy. This takes a WHOLE lot more time than grabbing a weapon so I obviously can't do all that. So while I'm running down the road, in my socks with no jacket or keys, hoping that one of Bob's buddies don't jack me in the back I'm wondering about the phone I left on the kitchen table that I could use to call someone with. Is it at this point that I start wondering why I just left my animals, possibly my wife and all of my worldly belongings in the hands of criminals?
 Or

I could grab my gun, pick the most defensible area in my house, which I know rather well  because well, it's my damned house.
Now I have the advantage as I am armed and familiar with the layout. At least I have a fighting chance.
OH, and one little other thing, in most cases including this one, once the homeowner opens fire, the rats scamper.

I'll repeat myself, the only one with the duty to retreat in my house is the intruder. You may not care about your animals, your great grandmas wedding ring, or that bike that you fixed up JUST right. I do.
I care about them a whole lot more than a group of junkies busting into my house, threatening my family and wanting to sell my most precious memories for their next high.

It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.

/Even dumber than the annoying guinea pig
 
2013-05-16 11:53:51 PM

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human

.

Thing is, I respect everyone's views. If you believe in fleeing rather than fighting because you don't want to hurt anyone over possessions, I really respect you. Honestly. You are so true to your beliefs that you would risk your life and that of your family to uphold them, and I truly do honor that. It's not so different from the conscientious objectors who went to WWII as medics rather than soldiers, choosing to carry no firearm event hough they would be most certainly shot at.

But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.
 
2013-05-16 11:54:32 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.


And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.
 
2013-05-16 11:54:46 PM
comment was in response to Drew Curtis Jr.
 
2013-05-16 11:59:08 PM

duenor: Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.


But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.


I actually agree with everything you've said. I believe one of us is reading something wrong.
 
2013-05-17 12:00:07 AM
And it's me not reading the very next post.
I r da winrar
 
2013-05-17 12:00:12 AM

jjorsett: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.

And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.


Yes. That's why it's an error.
 
2013-05-17 12:01:43 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: jjorsett: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And without the criminals' error those guns would have done our well-armed citizen no good whatsoever.

And without the guns, the error wouldn't have mattered.

Yes. That's why it's an error.


As was robbing the house in the first place, regardless of occupant or weapon presence.
 
2013-05-17 12:05:10 AM

viqas: He should have killed the asshole.  Now he will sue him for injuries when he gets out of prison.


Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
 
2013-05-17 12:07:18 AM
Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

How many times do I have to tell you to read my previous comments?

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.


I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:42 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

How many times do I have to tell you to read my previous comments?

Luse: It's incredibly simple. If you don't want to get shot, do not rob people. If that is beyond your mental faculties then you are dumber than my ferrets. At this point I have a hard time in viewing you as human.

I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.


Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.
 
2013-05-17 12:11:57 AM

Gyrfalcon: way south: DrewCurtisJr:These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary.


If you break into a house and threaten the residents, only to get killed in the process, what happened isn't a trial or the proper application of the death penalty. Its a Darwin award being handed out at three times the speed of sound in response to a dangerous situation of your own creation.

/Home invasions all too often end in murders (which can get the death penalty).
/The residents have no way to know if you're a kinder gentler bandit, and no obligation to wait and find out.  .

The way not to get the death penalty for burglary is not to break into someone's residence when they are home.

The law has done everything it possibly can to ensure that burglars don't die otherwise: Spring traps and booby traps are illegal, killer watchdogs are illegal, mining the yard and Terminators are illegal...but if you must break into someone's house and threaten his life, you cannot complain when you die afterward. I know I'm often too realistic for many Farkers (liberal and conservative alike), but really, there's just no other way to put this: Don't want to die? Don't break into homes where there are people.


Agreed. I'm about as liberal as they come but I have no problem with people using deadly force to defend themselves from intruders in their homes.
 
2013-05-17 12:16:38 AM

duenor: But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.


That's not the point now is it. Are you going to go Yosemite Sam to save your precious ferrets or if you have a reasonable opportunity use non-lethal force like we would expect law enforcement?
 
2013-05-17 12:16:45 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Take this particular case for example, there were 3 of them.

I have a hard time viewing you as human when you care about your ferrets more than human life. At this point I have a hard time viewing you as a person who should be in possession of firearms.


You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

I wish you and yours the best. May you cross paths with me rather then the criminals you fellate for oh so much. You have nothing to fear from me, them on the other hand, may you never find out.

Good day Sir.
 
2013-05-17 12:26:00 AM

Luse: Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.


How many times do I have to write that if you feel threatened you are justified in using deadly force? I'll even grant a very wide range of reasonable doubt to the homeower/victim. But if you have a reasonable option of not using deadly force, in the case of property theft, you should be judged on that option. Would you be ok if Walmart security gunned down a kid who stole a xbox game?
 
2013-05-17 12:32:51 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Right, because I go to work, pay my taxes, contribute to charity, have served honorably in the military and value the sweat of my brow I'm the scum of the earth.
The piece of human refuse who comes into my home, threatens my family, may very well rape or kill my wife, or both means more to you.

How many times do I have to write that if you feel threatened you are justified in using deadly force? I'll even grant a very wide range of reasonable doubt to the homeower/victim. But if you have a reasonable option of not using deadly force, in the case of property theft, you should be judged on that option. Would you be ok if Walmart security gunned down a kid who stole a xbox game?


Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.

I do not expect my door to be kicked in my home. No one should. If an individual or a group go this far to invade your home you have every right to feel threatened.
What normally happens after an invasion?

Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.
 
2013-05-17 12:34:16 AM

Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.


You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?
 
2013-05-17 12:34:20 AM

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: But please don't insist that your values also be my own. My choosing to have a firearm within easy reach at all times in my home does not endanger you. In fact, I may indeed be contributing to your safety because a burglar may think twice about robbing you because he just might run into someone like me.

That's not the point now is it. Are you going to go Yosemite Sam to save your precious ferrets or if you have a reasonable opportunity use non-lethal force like we would expect law enforcement?


LEO would act exactly in the same way I do - even less charitably, actually. Some guy started bashing in the windows of a mcdonald's where I used to live with a pipe. LEOs came, told him to put the pipe down. He refused, walked out of the restaurant, then turned around with the pipe half raised toward the cops. The funeral was about a week later. Wasn't even near the LEOs. But they weren't about to put themselves or the bystanders at risk of being bludgeoned. You can google the story up, was about a year or two ago.

See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.

As for NLF.... do you know how such weapons work? I do. I don't discount them (I do have a can of green fox labs) but inside my home I'm going for the most effective defensive item, and that one comes with a 20 round magazine.
 
2013-05-17 12:37:49 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?


No. He's obviously a sick and twisted individual. That fact doesn't make your mind any healthier.
 
2013-05-17 12:39:38 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: You know what? You're entitled to believe whatever your criminal loving diseased mind wants to believe.

You think my mind is diseased because I don't agree with actions like this?


The only part of that story (which I've read before) that I believe was wrong was the finishing shot part.As for the homeowner, he has loose mouth disease as well as a poor understanding of the law.

If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).
 
2013-05-17 12:42:47 AM

Luse: Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.


So a kid who steal from walmart is just a petty thief but a kid who breaks into your home, where he thinks nobody is present, is a murderous "junkie" who deserves to be shot? I've got news for you, often times this is the same kid, the "scum of the earth" who you don't give a second thought to shooting.

Luse: Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.


What if he doesn't surrender, and runs out the door with your grandmas wedding ring?
 
2013-05-17 12:42:47 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Do this for me. Close your eyes and imagine you heard a sound of breaking glass from the next room. You go to see what it is and there is a 6' 250lb male, all in black with a mask, holding the bat they just used to smash the window. Are you threatened? Would you assume that this person is reasonable?

Like I said before it doesn't matter if the person is 6'2" or 4'2", I think the homeowner would get the benefit of the doubt in most cases. But what happens if you are able to freely escape out the back door?

PunGent: I don't think you deserve the JUDICIAL death penalty for anything; rather, quite a lot of people deserve it, but proving it is tricky. The death penalty is Constitutional, but our legal system is too error-prone for it to be applied fairly.

Even in our system of justice the death penalty is prone to error. I hope you see why I am hesitant to allow people to shoot others when there are other options.


What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?
 
2013-05-17 12:45:07 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Retail theft is completely different from home invasion. Don't play dumb. The kid was expected to be at the Walmart and, yes, out of x amount of kids y are expected to steal things.

So a kid who steal from walmart is just a petty thief but a kid who breaks into your home, where he thinks nobody is present, is a murderous "junkie" who deserves to be shot? I've got news for you, often times this is the same kid, the "scum of the earth" who you don't give a second thought to shooting.

Luse: Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.

What if he doesn't surrender, and runs out the door with your grandmas wedding ring?


Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.
 
2013-05-17 12:47:43 AM

squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?


Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.
 
2013-05-17 12:50:18 AM

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?

Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.


What part of "home" are you having a hard time with?
 
2013-05-17 12:52:16 AM

duenor: If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).


WTF? Are you some kind of criminal loving pansy? All burglars are scum and deserve no mercy.
 
2013-05-17 12:53:46 AM

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: If I was him, I would've done the same, except that after securing the girl I would've made sure I was safe, then called the police, then begun first aid on the girl. I would've done everything I could to make sure she didn't die (the same for the boy if he was still alive).

WTF? Are you some kind of criminal loving pansy? All burglars are scum and deserve no mercy.


Obviously if I get the drop on the guy and am absolutely positive he's alone I'll order him to surrender. This should go without saying.

Yep, that's exactly what I said. Are you a blatant liar or just criminally stupid?
 
2013-05-17 12:54:52 AM

Luse: Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.


Why? Everyone has a mommy whether or not you know her. Why not execute the "scum"?
 
2013-05-17 12:58:52 AM

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: What are the other options? Wait and see what the guy is going to do? Call 911 and hope they get there fast enough?

Yes, in some cases when only property theft is involved.


The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?
 
2013-05-17 01:00:26 AM
Because I'm not an executioner and it's not my place. I only care for my safety and the safety of my family. I'm not sure what delusion you live in. The places I've lived  the type of people who broke into your home when you were there were not little Timmy.
Your questions are dishonest and stupid. If he bolts for the door, he's not threatening me is he. If I see shoulders spin he's not turning around for a bout of harsh language.
 
2013-05-17 01:00:59 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Luse: Well if it's little Timmy from down the road like you say I call his mommy.

Why? Everyone has a mommy whether or not you know her. Why not execute the "scum"?


1/10

OK For a minute there, I thought you might actually have had some kind of a valid point... troll on.
 
2013-05-17 01:02:00 AM
If only he would have had a gun this whole thing wouldn't have happened
 
2013-05-17 01:05:56 AM

squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?


Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?
 
2013-05-17 01:09:21 AM

Luse: Because I'm not an executioner and it's not my place. I only care for my safety and the safety of my family.


Don't forget about your precious things:

Luse: You may not care about your animals, your great grandmas wedding ring, or that bike that you fixed up JUST right. I do.
 
2013-05-17 01:30:28 AM

duenor: See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.


You do realize that you are agreeing with me don't you?
 
2013-05-17 01:40:12 AM

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


No.
 
2013-05-17 01:50:08 AM

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


No. But any armed criminal is potentialy murdering you. You have to collapse their wave function as soon as possible. That's just simple physics.
 
2013-05-17 01:50:24 AM
Webly Vickers 50.80
 
2013-05-17 02:09:36 AM

DrewCurtisJr: duenor: See, I value life. I'm not going to shoot somebody that's say, breaking into my car. Nor will I shoot someone who's shoplifting from my yard sale, or my store (if I had one). But in my bloody house, armed?? This guy gets one chance to run, and if he even hesitates I'm putting him down and then making sure all my family is in my room with the door locked while the police come. Again, because I value life. Mine.

You do realize that you are agreeing with me don't you?


No, I'm not.
Troll troll troll... sigh. All right, we've given you enough attention for this thread. Even your nick is a plea for attention. Well... much to my shame I bit and bit again.
Okay.... moving on to respond to people who actually want to discuss...
 
2013-05-17 04:04:52 AM

DigitalCoffee: There are alternatives though...

[i.chzbgr.com image 480x338]


Except (being a gun nut) that's not even close to 88 caliber.
 
2013-05-17 06:21:44 AM

duenor: DrewCurtisJr: PunGent: They were just dirtbags stealing stuff that didn't belong to them. They weren't useful human beings, or even just useless-but-harmless human beings. I refuse to feel bad that they got shot...if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

These were dirtbags, but I don't think you deserve the death penalty for burglary. If you feel the least bit threatened during a home invasion I think you are justified using deadly force, you have no idea if the intruders are armed or what their intents are. That's not what "no duty to retreat" means. If you a reasonable person can resolve a conflict without having to resort to deadly force (with every benefit of the doubt benefiting the victim) I think this should be the standard.

The reason the "stand your ground" law was passed was because no homeowner should have to be worrying while he's trying to defend himself and his family whether he's going to have the tables turned around and be sued for everything he owns by the intruder. He's already at a major disadvantage.

And yes to both thoughts you may be having

1. concealed carriers have hesitated to shoot (with tragic consequences) for exactly this reason (one example that comes to mind was the guy who had a CCW and was a clown working at the mall where the shooting occurred. he was left paralyzed)
2. burglars and home invaders have sued the homeowners of the home they robbed for injuries sustained in the process of robbing their home. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues- ca lif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/ )


Yeah, the whole "intruders get to sue" is BS.  Personally, I blame dumb juries and chickenshiat insurance companies.
 
2013-05-17 06:26:03 AM

DrewCurtisJr: squibbits: The link goes to a case where a guy shot someone on his dock, not in his home. It's just the same as shooting someone in your driveway. This would not be justifiable. If the guy smashes into the house, are you saying that one should just let him take what he wants and leave?

Would you execute someone for stealing your tv?


For that alone?  no.  But I won't sniffle if in the course of stealing someone's TV he refuses a command to "freeze" and then gets shot.

Don't steal shiat if you don't want to get shot.  Don't give thieves sympathy unless you want to perpetuate the species.

You're part of the problem, frankly.
 
2013-05-17 08:14:51 AM
In Texas you can most definitely be killed over property, or getting your property back.

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and(3) he reasonably believes that:(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
 
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